Re: Megalomoths. Moths aren't actually "attracted" to light, as we have been led to believe in wider culture. Moths use the natural light sources of the Moon and stars as a way of navigation (natural celestial light travels in a parallel direction, whilst lightbulbs and artificial light radiates all around, which confuses the moths' internal censors). Scientists have even found that moths and other insects travel high in the air on "insect super-highways", and use the light of celestial bodies to navigate along these. Basically what I'm saying is that giant moths are the perfect mode of space transport, fight me
I think the Jagar Tharn being the good guy theory is that he was trying to prevent the oblivion crisis by keeping the Emperor in stasis in a pocket dimension. The theory goes that the Emperor explained his visions of his own death to Tharn and Tharn wanted to prevent it.
20:55 When I played ESO (only played Daggerfall Covenant) the only person who recognized the ridiculousness of the Ebonheart Pact was Sheogorath "ye hate each other!"
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 Yeah, even though there was a precedent for cooperation after the Akaviri invasions and a player character holding the alliance together at every turn, it falls apart shortly after the game. The Dunmer aren’t in charge of Almsivi’s whims, after all.
Sheogorath also had Queen Ayrenn (y'know, the lady who, on your first meeting, says that the story about her and a bear is true) depicted as a stuck up homicidal bitch. The Ebonheart Pact existed. Cry about it.
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 Ebonheart Pact forces the Dunmer to end any official argonian slavery - immediately enslaves khajiit. Nords and Argonians both got beef with the Dunmer they should've formed a mutually beneficial alliance with the Aldmeri Dominion and wiped the Dunmer houses and Tribunal from the face of Tamriel, leave them as nothing but a powerless agricultural state. Fuck Dunmer, Altmer are cunts and arrogant elven supremacists but are mostly talk and at the very least don't actively enslave other races. Windhelm's reluctance to help the Dunmer during the events of Skyrim are totally understandable considering their history.
There are only 3 places/ people left, and elves/wood elves/Khajit and redguard/bretons/orc are fighting eachother as well as threatening you, to gain power over all of tamriel. You dont have enough power by yourself. Do you a) do nothing or b) set aside your differences breifly to fight back. You set aside your differences. It happens all the time in history. Argonians were mostly freed so it benifited them, and they wouldn't take advantage of the turmoil to fight for their freedom. Nords usual allies, the empire, were picking up the peices, and they were still under attack from the reach, plus east and west skyrim were split, so east Skyrim needed allies. It wouldn't make sense NOT to form the pact. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is a saying for a reason. Obviously it was tenuous, but it was their only choice. It makes perfect sense under the circumstances. Everyone had something to gain. Argonians gained freedom Dark elves didnt have to worry about a slave revolt while they fought elsewhere Nords weren't fighting with only half of their people And they all had enough power to hold their own. Obviously it was doomed to fall apart immediately following, but they had no choice
Mora being a sea God makes perfect sense given his deep ones esque appearance. And a huge part of lovecrafts work is thst sometimes knowledge can drive you mad. In that sense mora can almost be considered a God of madness.
Three podcasts into this iceberg and the Fudgemuppets and the Camel are still keeping it fresh and fun. This stuff is food for the die hard Elder Scrolls fan soul. ❤️ Thanks guys!
Dropped the ball completely on "Divayth Fyr = Battlemage" thingy. It refers to the theory that Divayth Fyr is the main protagonist of the game Battlespire, since his room in Morrowind is full of Battlespire stuff. There was also a dev roleplay or something in TIL (a Divayth interview) where Divayth brought that up himself and didn't admit or deny it. I for one take this as head canon. :) Otherwise this is great stuff, although most stuff ofc is talked about very briefly. Of course since there's A LOT of stuff. Good job anyway! Too bad I only found this now. I'm a wnb lorebuff from ten years ago or so, when C0DA/c0da came, and followed MK intensively on Bethesda lore forums! :D
Theory: Melphala is liked by Sithis as she hopes to mantle the entire possibility of contradiction, hence mantling Anu and Padame, uniting them back into one (Sithis). Vivec saw her as his anticipation as he was also a walking contradiction, with her Sphere actually either being contradiction itself (which is illogical, making it unknowable) or her sphere is literally Chim, hence why it cannot be known by mortals as it makes them immortal
I'm left handed too! Scissors can be a pain in the ass, you have to specifically apply pressure that's not needed when using them right-handed. Getting ink on your hand while writing is annoying, otherwise I haven't had too much trouble.
Kinda late here, but you got the Trinimalarkay idea for the most part. The idea for it is that Malacath/Trinimac/Arkay may be shards of a greater aedra of death. It would fit for what the lies Boethiah revealed to Trinimac's followers would have been, explain why Malacath's shrines are covered in skulls all the time, and fits with Arkay being a post-creation aedra who just shows up out of nowhere
Sinistral elves is an occult reference it means the sinistral elves took the "left handed path" or the "wrong path" which is considered a path of dark and malevolent magics purposed for personal gain and power over others
Then again, the Redguards may have been the ones who started the feud, and only now refer to them as "Sinestral Elves" since in the end, they lost. Like how the dragons think that Power is truth, and that if one wins a verbal debate of the Thuum, then that means their philosophy "must be the correct ones". So perhaps they just think the Sinestral Elves were in the wrong and that's why they got destroyed, but we wouldn't know any different. We also know Mer tend to be more magical (most of the time) and the Redguards don't like magic all that much, so maybe they didn't like the magic the Sinestral Mer used, whether good or bad. What do you think about this theory.
@@thalmoragent9344 Agreed. I think their use of magic made them evil in the eyes of Redguards. Also possible the Sinistral were slavers like the Ayleids. But we can't be sure the Redguards weren't actually the bad guys. They basically initiated genocide the second they landed on tamriel so they don't have any more moral high ground than anyone else
@@dorianshepard2841 Yep, always 2 sides of the story, and unfortunately the Sinestral Elves aren't around to defend themselves, and we only have the word of the Victor's to go off of, so the story may be tampered or simply propaganda at this point. Funnily enough, this can be applied to the Snow Elves too... Warning, incoming rant, 😅; Ok, so with the situation of the Sinestral Elves in mind, the Snow Elves may actually be victims of biased history too, primary, utterly biased Sources. All of the "sources" are incomplete and do not explain not shed light to the entire debacle or sorry. Some say the "greed for the Eye of Magnus" argument needs no speculation, true... oh, aside from the fact of the assumption theh make when given the very little information they have. I don't take what we're told at face value without more facts and evidence to back it up, evidence that We. Are. Lacking. The fanbase has been half a story at best, yet they come to the assumption that it must all be true? Seems like they've come to conclusions. Saarthal was made, then destroyed by the native Falmer, for who knows what reason, presumably by the Snow Elves for the Eye of Magnus,(no concrete evidence) then Ysgramor came back and killed all the Snow Elves. And guess who told that story? Ysgramor, the only man left alive to tell the tale, the man who had followers who believed his story and never questioned it, the man who had the liberty of saying anything he could to make his argument potentially better. It doesn't take a genius to see the Atmoran "primary source" as biased and only somewhat true. Even Ysgramor didn't tell the whole story, we only know his side. We don't know if the Snow Elves were in the right or wrong, because Gelebor is all that's left, and he may not have even been born or old enough to see and confirm certain events. So many ASSUME that the Snow Elves attacked out of Hubris or selfishness, yet most people don't ever assume that the Atmorans were the ones who brought it on themselves in the first place. And I can't stress enough: we DO NOT know who started the conflict, or even why it was started. Your thoughts?
@@thalmoragent9344 Agreed. It's basically Bethesda's penchant for creating narratives with no right answer. (E.g. Nerevarine) The player is provided with an incomplete or outright contradictory dataset and left to put the pieces together on their own in a way that makes sense to them - or a way that they prefer it to have been. For example when I played Morrowind I was skeptical that the young Dagoth Ur was as villainous and treacherous as the Tribunal paints him. His current state of madness leads us to believe he is the villain, but what he is now doesn't mean he always was. And Sotha Sil tells us in ESO "Almlexia believes her lies implicitly, as does everyone else" which is also apparent when you play Mournhold in ES3. And Vivec is deliberately obtuse on the subject. As it is I have questions about what really happened between the Redguards and Sinistral. And the Nords and Falmer. Gelebor doesn't seem the genocidal type - he's very noble. But Vyrthur does seem someone to raise a city out of spite. The dispute over the Eye could have been an internal conflict that got out of hand and the rest of the snow elves knew there would be a reckoning for it. But all I can do is speculate, or take the sources at their word in lieu of evidence. Or best take them as something "approximating" truth, as the real truth is between the lines. I'm also curious if the Dwarves were really so malicious as the Dunmer and Falmer make them seem
One of the reasons I enjoy this particular series is because it sound like my house is full of kids again, only difference being the subject discussed. My son and his friends were all into GTA and COD. Don't tell them, but I prefer this discussion 😁
Literally everyone at my works knows what Sunday means for me. I’ll be cooking at work and I’ll have a server come up and ask “did you enjoy your elder scrolls podcast?” They don’t even know what the elder scrolls are 🤣That’s how much I blab about this amazing thing you guys have done. ☝️ PS Drew, please talk a bit more. You have such great insight
I feel like the Night Mother is Namira, not Mephala. Just based on what the Foresworn believe about Namira and the void, it actually makes more sense for Namira to be the Night Mother.
The issue with mephala being the night mother is that the morag tong worshipped mephala and considered the dark brotherhood and the night mother heretics for worshipping and (in the night mothers case marrying) sithis. Theres no level of mental gymnastics I can do to rectify these things and make it coherent.
After a long day of work, nerding out over a world almost no one I know irl gives a shit about helps me decompress. Thank you both Muppets AND Camel for giving me the strength to carry on!
The crusaders relics are Aedric artifacts, knights of the nine goes into how like the boots are an artifact of Dibela for example. If you do a bunch of evil stuff after getting the artifacts you won't be able to use them until you make the pilgrimage again, could be something of sentience.
That’s interesting never heard that suggested before. Also wouldn’t it create two more daedric princes to make it 18 in total? Because the 8 divines correlates to 16 daedric princes
Oh boy. I was just watching all of your podcasts in succession to have something to tie me over before you tackle the next part of this meme and here you are!
The theory about Jagar Tharn being the good guy is based on the idea that he foresaw the Oblivion Crisis and took steps to delay it by hiding the Emperor away. I can't remember if there was any evidence for it, though.
As a student specialising in Jungian Psychology, absolutely loved hearing there are others that still examine things with the approach, especially Elder Scrolls. There's so much symbolism in the lore that-whether intentional or unintentional-tells us allot about the human condition.
i kinda wish to know if you guys are reading the old one, or the new one with recent stuff like Lydia being an aspect of Kyne, Ulfric and Elenwen being lovers once and Azeroth having Daedric Cultists hidden and posting profanity in tombs.
Misanthropic Space probably refers to the reason why people can't breathe in space above Mundus. Cyrus the Restless went to space once and went to the Colony, he and his crew learned how to breathe in space through licorice straw. Edit: TEM is also found on that same story
Upside down land, with giant hopping mouse boxers? Big cats with pouches? Little two thumbed tree bears that sleep all the time, and only eat poisonous leaves? Most of the land is bright red? Sounds like something out of a Terry Pratchett novel. xD
You can get there using no clip. It’s just a test room the devs used to test the textures and mechanics of all the higher level enemy npcs. I’ve heard it may be dlc soon.
@@allmight9840 “The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, like the other games in The Elder Scrolls series, takes place on the fictional continent of Tamriel, in which the player can travel between the provinces of High Rock and Hammerfell.”
@@ViViVex Daggerfall's content is mostly procedurally generated, ES6 probably won't be, so they'll have to put in much more work to develop these 2 regions and satisfy the fans
People cringe or get afraid of Kirkbride trips, but it somewhat simple: its buddhism, hinduism and a zest of christian gnosticism. CHIM, Amaranth and the metaphors being reality. CHIM is becoming a Bodhisattva, enlighten yourself but you stay inside the cycle ( The Wheel ) to help others enlighten ( much like Lorkhan ) and Amaranth or creating your own dream is becoming Buddha and leaving the cycle. Gnosticism enters when the Thalmor and other agents believe the physical world is a prison and you need to free yourself from it but the Thalmor take this pill with some theism from their own, and indian Buddhism beliefs crisscross with this notion because they believe the ascended spirits and gods are part of an unity and humans are gods descended into matter. If you have a bit of familiarity with some of these concepts Kirkbride becomes very simple. Sometimes its really on the nose. I for one believe Bethesda should hire Kirkbride back along with his contributors and write the next Elder Scrolls. Morrowind is maybe the best game lore-wise because of Kirkbride and others that weren't developing Oblivion, Skyrim and ESO. From where I'm seeing ESO lore is very bland.
Exactly, the only reason his stuff sounds so strange is because of the signifiers he attaches. He’s been pretty open about being a closeted gnostic or something similar
Gents, could their be a podcast dedicated to what happens to the Dragonborn after Skyrim? About Talos mantling/Dragonborn being Talos? And can non Nords enter Sovngarde? My canon Dragonborn is an orc, so I'm concerned her soul will get grabbed by Malacath, and not the Divines.
i would be thinking its tied into actual beliefs of character/npc obviously theyll believe sovngarde exists after visiting so theres a decently high chance as long as you didnt give your soul to a deadra during the play through. also the talos mantling/ dragonborn being talos is a fan theory not cannon (yet) but is a good topic to discuss nonetheless
@@Colonel-Commissar_Renik it would make sense they say similar theories about real life that if you believe in heaven and hell it will be based off your beliefs and where you think youd go but as with evidence that these are actual locations there isnt enough evidence to back it but it seems like in the elder scrolls they back this theory quite a bit with how the different religions work how based on beliefs it depends where you go tbh if you pay attention to the lore and know real life conspiracy theories it seems like they find ways to incorporate quite a few of them into the lore ex: dragon breaks (mandella effect) the towers giving off magic power (pyramid power plant theory) theres quite a few more just woke up not too long ago cant think of others off the top of my head
Work on the Megalomoths began after Reman (yes, that Reman) hired the "Institute of Incongruitech and Extrinsic Travels" to genetically engineer them. They don't have anything to do with the Ancestor Mothists afaik
Possipoints were a purely MK thing until ESO had Aios (Automata Incarnum Overseer System), an AI Sotha Sil made for Clockwork City, say this upon meeting the player character: "Beginning entity analysis. Error. Entity exists outside known possipoints." So now they're canon, I guess.
MK called Peryite "Aka's Shadow" Edit: The name or Nymic defines the being. The Tsaesci are language eaters because they eat things to become that thing. They eat the name and assimilate into themselves thus taking on that name and identity. Edit: On the Sinistral Elves, in "Lord Vivec's sword-meeting with Cyrus the Restless" the Pankratosword was a left-handed technique. It might not be that they were left-handed but that they were the ones who used/created the Pankratosword technique.
Last time I was hoping camel would return. I kind of see him as the fourth fugemuppet anyway. All four of them show a deep love and understanding for the elder scrolls and all it’s different perspectives it’s hard not to
love how yall bring up the challenges of being left handed in a right handed world I'm left handed and it is a challenge with softball and a lot of other things. scissors are my greatest enemy. but I play guitar and learned right handed when I was young and it was so challenging. only later in life did I learn they make left handed guitars. now I'm afraid to try left handed after playing right handed for 15 yrs. positive note left handed live on average 10 yrs longer then right handers
Personally I think the dadric artifacts disappeared and reappeared due to the elders scrolls same as they also disappear and reappear but some do end up destroyed or lost and the reappear that way so who knows tbh
@@MidoriOfTheShuinsen *"Yeah, sucks when people Zero Sum, even if he is a Nord... poor guy didn't know what he was getting into, but alas, it is the folly of Man. Once the Dominion controls the Continent, we'll ensure the Humans underneath us will follow our path and be willing subjects"*
1:13:52 I think that's a reference to Wulf, who you can potentially meet during Morrowind, specifically at Ghostgate, if you're on your way to face Dagoth Ur; he only says that he's an old legionnaire, but if you talk to Lalatia Varian, she says he was an avatar of Tiber Septim, and the game files call him that, too. (And considering they chose to name him Wulf, I think they are drawing connections between Tiber Septim and Wulfarth, which draws connections between Talos and Lorkahn...) So there is definitely some weight to the idea that Septim had a hand in Dagoth Ur's waking and downfall.
Camel's back for part 3! Awesome!!! 1:07:45 There has been science in the past few years, discussing of storing digital data IN drops of water, and how to do it. Some of this data was photographs. Many people refer to photos and home videos as memories, due to how they're meant to preserve memories. Perhaps Tamriel already has that "technology" at a much higher level, in the form of some kind of magic.
"Ordained Receptacle" sounds like Holy Grail/Vessel to me. Especially if the Tsaesci are a race of symbiotic snakes beings or parasitic worms. A being with the power of dragons would be the greatest vessel to inhabit or the greatest role model for "serpents" as dragons also include sea serpents in real world mythology (Chaoskampf). The King Serpent that lives/hides within a human/humanoid.
Can't speak to Thotbox, but Thottbot was made by the EverQuest guild leader of "Afterlife" Thott, originally as a resource for EverQuest, and later for other MMOs. He, and the guild Afterlife, were on my server Mithaniel Marr, and were basically our grand overlord's.
The cooling of Tamriel could actually be partly explained by major eruptions of Red Mountain. Many major eruptions in Earth’s history (and also meteor strikes/ like what killed the Dino’s ) have caused the sky to be covered in ash and particulates, which basically blots out the sun for years. This eventually leads to mini “ice ages” and global cooling because the sun’s energy can’t reach the ground. Perhaps the two major eruptions of Red Mountain have caused cooling of Tamriel; effectively wiping out the “jungles” in Cyrodil, as well as leading Skyrim down an icy path. Granted, I know the “sun” and astrology of the elder scrolls universe is different from real life, but the parallels could be there.
My personal take on Aldmeris is that it is an inverse Atmora - Instead of a land without the concept of time it is a land without the concept of space, so it both is and is not real. It also explains the city atop city quote as a land without the concept of space would mean two or more cities could literally inhabit the same non-space. There are probably a million reasons why this is wrong but that is my pet theory.
I was thinking this the whole episode but I think the audio is incorrectly edited 😂😂 he didn’t do it the last episode and they wait a while until after he finishes. He also says stuff related to what they’re saying like as they’re saying it. Could just be me going crazy tho 😂
I'm still recovering from this.
good job everyone, you pulled it off XD
@@Acronimz It was nice to see you all in person together :)
You did a great job. And your style is really cool. You look like a fantasy character, talking about fantasy characters. xD
Vaermina hug you ❤️
At this point the Bee Gees regret asking FudgeMuppet how deep their lore is
Camel looking like a essential Dunmer npc.
Kinda looks like skyrim Jiub
Thought he looks more like a Nord?
Like an Ashlander khan you mean
He kinda looks like a Anaal Nathrakh fan...Oh wait...
He looks like that one dude from LOTR, whom I believe was the king of Rohan's son
Camel: “Are you familiar with her?”
Drew: “That’s a personal question”
I laughed a little too hard lmfao
Check out the Monty python "wink wink nudge nudge" skit. Classic!
The only reason Sunday's are tolerable is waking up to a new podcast to listen to while i make breakfast thank you for the awesome content
Just start watching AoT, and your sundays will be even better
@qma attack on titan, it's an anime
You need to go to the temple and worship mighty Talos to make your Sunday better.
👌🙏
@@sebastianpeczalka8596 AoT is really good 👍
Re: Megalomoths. Moths aren't actually "attracted" to light, as we have been led to believe in wider culture. Moths use the natural light sources of the Moon and stars as a way of navigation (natural celestial light travels in a parallel direction, whilst lightbulbs and artificial light radiates all around, which confuses the moths' internal censors).
Scientists have even found that moths and other insects travel high in the air on "insect super-highways", and use the light of celestial bodies to navigate along these.
Basically what I'm saying is that giant moths are the perfect mode of space transport, fight me
Dude that's awesome
Mister moth guy knows his moths
Thank you, mothman.
Very cool.
They would be the perfect space transport, if you could breathe in space.
Lepidopterology Gang Gang
This is what it feels like to discover the secrets of Apocrypha. No wonder everyone goes insane
MEGA
Early winner of the comments.
im kinda there at this point im insane but still in control welcome to the club people lmao
Honestly, they probably know more than Herma Mora by now
An absolutely wonderful way to start the day, listening to this podcast while playing Skyrim. ❤
That's what I do
I think the Jagar Tharn being the good guy theory is that he was trying to prevent the oblivion crisis by keeping the Emperor in stasis in a pocket dimension. The theory goes that the Emperor explained his visions of his own death to Tharn and Tharn wanted to prevent it.
Wrong Uriel, homie.
@@bendover9813 It is the same Uriel, the first 4 Elder Scrolls game all take place during the reign of Uriel VII.
all mainline tes games (apart from skyrim) take place within the latter end of the 3rd era during Uriel VII's reign.
camel looks like he's about to talk to me about his favorite record for the next 20 minutes at the recordshop where he works
For some reason I just thought of Euronymous
I bet it's an indie band too.
Camelcath, Mehrunes Drewgon, Michaelag Bal, and Scottogorath are holy in that they serve the role of obstacles during the Testing.
Long may they reign.
My milk finger got so close to CHIM when I saw the notification
TAKE MY LIKE AND LEAVE!
@@cobaltblaze748 *leaves 👀
Uh oh
20:55 When I played ESO (only played Daggerfall Covenant) the only person who recognized the ridiculousness of the Ebonheart Pact was Sheogorath "ye hate each other!"
Weren’t the Dunmer working with the Nords? The Dunmer, THE most xenophobic “ther takan ere jerbs!” Race in elder scrolls?
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 Yeah, even though there was a precedent for cooperation after the Akaviri invasions and a player character holding the alliance together at every turn, it falls apart shortly after the game. The Dunmer aren’t in charge of Almsivi’s whims, after all.
Sheogorath also had Queen Ayrenn (y'know, the lady who, on your first meeting, says that the story about her and a bear is true) depicted as a stuck up homicidal bitch.
The Ebonheart Pact existed. Cry about it.
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 Ebonheart Pact forces the Dunmer to end any official argonian slavery - immediately enslaves khajiit. Nords and Argonians both got beef with the Dunmer they should've formed a mutually beneficial alliance with the Aldmeri Dominion and wiped the Dunmer houses and Tribunal from the face of Tamriel, leave them as nothing but a powerless agricultural state.
Fuck Dunmer, Altmer are cunts and arrogant elven supremacists but are mostly talk and at the very least don't actively enslave other races. Windhelm's reluctance to help the Dunmer during the events of Skyrim are totally understandable considering their history.
There are only 3 places/ people left, and elves/wood elves/Khajit and redguard/bretons/orc are fighting eachother as well as threatening you, to gain power over all of tamriel. You dont have enough power by yourself. Do you a) do nothing or b) set aside your differences breifly to fight back. You set aside your differences. It happens all the time in history. Argonians were mostly freed so it benifited them, and they wouldn't take advantage of the turmoil to fight for their freedom. Nords usual allies, the empire, were picking up the peices, and they were still under attack from the reach, plus east and west skyrim were split, so east Skyrim needed allies. It wouldn't make sense NOT to form the pact.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend is a saying for a reason. Obviously it was tenuous, but it was their only choice. It makes perfect sense under the circumstances. Everyone had something to gain.
Argonians gained freedom
Dark elves didnt have to worry about a slave revolt while they fought elsewhere
Nords weren't fighting with only half of their people
And they all had enough power to hold their own.
Obviously it was doomed to fall apart immediately following, but they had no choice
Waters being memory fits nicely into the khajiit depiction of Hermaeus Mora as a sea god - i.e. peoples memories = knowledge
Mora being a sea God makes perfect sense given his deep ones esque appearance.
And a huge part of lovecrafts work is thst sometimes knowledge can drive you mad. In that sense mora can almost be considered a God of madness.
Anti-magic zones are likely a reference to the underking ending of daggerfall where the Underking reclaimed his heart creating one of those zones
Three podcasts into this iceberg and the Fudgemuppets and the Camel are still keeping it fresh and fun. This stuff is food for the die hard Elder Scrolls fan soul. ❤️ Thanks guys!
"Did you know that water is memory?" No, I'm very dehydrated!
Maybe you should stop hanging out on a planet sized volcano Vulkan. Also your sons are still looking for you
Do more collaborations with camel, they're great!
Dropped the ball completely on "Divayth Fyr = Battlemage" thingy. It refers to the theory that Divayth Fyr is the main protagonist of the game Battlespire, since his room in Morrowind is full of Battlespire stuff. There was also a dev roleplay or something in TIL (a Divayth interview) where Divayth brought that up himself and didn't admit or deny it. I for one take this as head canon. :) Otherwise this is great stuff, although most stuff ofc is talked about very briefly. Of course since there's A LOT of stuff. Good job anyway! Too bad I only found this now. I'm a wnb lorebuff from ten years ago or so, when C0DA/c0da came, and followed MK intensively on Bethesda lore forums! :D
"Everyone's got that weird attraction to Argonians they shouldn't have. We've all got that, right guys?"
Just because you can't breed with them doesn't mean you can't have fun.
Theory: Melphala is liked by Sithis as she hopes to mantle the entire possibility of contradiction, hence mantling Anu and Padame, uniting them back into one (Sithis).
Vivec saw her as his anticipation as he was also a walking contradiction, with her Sphere actually either being contradiction itself (which is illogical, making it unknowable) or her sphere is literally Chim, hence why it cannot be known by mortals as it makes them immortal
I'm left handed too! Scissors can be a pain in the ass, you have to specifically apply pressure that's not needed when using them right-handed. Getting ink on your hand while writing is annoying, otherwise I haven't had too much trouble.
Kinda late here, but you got the Trinimalarkay idea for the most part. The idea for it is that Malacath/Trinimac/Arkay may be shards of a greater aedra of death. It would fit for what the lies Boethiah revealed to Trinimac's followers would have been, explain why Malacath's shrines are covered in skulls all the time, and fits with Arkay being a post-creation aedra who just shows up out of nowhere
Sinistral elves is an occult reference it means the sinistral elves took the "left handed path" or the "wrong path" which is considered a path of dark and malevolent magics purposed for personal gain and power over others
Then again, the Redguards may have been the ones who started the feud, and only now refer to them as "Sinestral Elves" since in the end, they lost.
Like how the dragons think that Power is truth, and that if one wins a verbal debate of the Thuum, then that means their philosophy "must be the correct ones". So perhaps they just think the Sinestral Elves were in the wrong and that's why they got destroyed, but we wouldn't know any different.
We also know Mer tend to be more magical (most of the time) and the Redguards don't like magic all that much, so maybe they didn't like the magic the Sinestral Mer used, whether good or bad.
What do you think about this theory.
@@thalmoragent9344 Agreed. I think their use of magic made them evil in the eyes of Redguards. Also possible the Sinistral were slavers like the Ayleids. But we can't be sure the Redguards weren't actually the bad guys. They basically initiated genocide the second they landed on tamriel so they don't have any more moral high ground than anyone else
@@dorianshepard2841
Yep, always 2 sides of the story, and unfortunately the Sinestral Elves aren't around to defend themselves, and we only have the word of the Victor's to go off of, so the story may be tampered or simply propaganda at this point.
Funnily enough, this can be applied to the Snow Elves too...
Warning, incoming rant, 😅;
Ok, so with the situation of the Sinestral Elves in mind, the Snow Elves may actually be victims of biased history too, primary, utterly biased Sources. All of the "sources" are incomplete and do not explain not shed light to the entire debacle or sorry. Some say the "greed for the Eye of Magnus" argument needs no speculation, true... oh, aside from the fact of the assumption theh make when given the very little information they have.
I don't take what we're told at face value without more facts and evidence to back it up, evidence that We. Are. Lacking. The fanbase has been half a story at best, yet they come to the assumption that it must all be true? Seems like they've come to conclusions.
Saarthal was made, then destroyed by the native Falmer, for who knows what reason, presumably by the Snow Elves for the Eye of Magnus,(no concrete evidence) then Ysgramor came back and killed all the Snow Elves. And guess who told that story? Ysgramor, the only man left alive to tell the tale, the man who had followers who believed his story and never questioned it, the man who had the liberty of saying anything he could to make his argument potentially better.
It doesn't take a genius to see the Atmoran "primary source" as biased and only somewhat true. Even Ysgramor didn't tell the whole story, we only know his side. We don't know if the Snow Elves were in the right or wrong, because Gelebor is all that's left, and he may not have even been born or old enough to see and confirm certain events.
So many ASSUME that the Snow Elves attacked out of Hubris or selfishness, yet most people don't ever assume that the Atmorans were the ones who brought it on themselves in the first place. And I can't stress enough: we DO NOT know who started the conflict, or even why it was started.
Your thoughts?
@@thalmoragent9344 Agreed. It's basically Bethesda's penchant for creating narratives with no right answer. (E.g. Nerevarine) The player is provided with an incomplete or outright contradictory dataset and left to put the pieces together on their own in a way that makes sense to them - or a way that they prefer it to have been. For example when I played Morrowind I was skeptical that the young Dagoth Ur was as villainous and treacherous as the Tribunal paints him. His current state of madness leads us to believe he is the villain, but what he is now doesn't mean he always was. And Sotha Sil tells us in ESO "Almlexia believes her lies implicitly, as does everyone else" which is also apparent when you play Mournhold in ES3. And Vivec is deliberately obtuse on the subject.
As it is I have questions about what really happened between the Redguards and Sinistral. And the Nords and Falmer. Gelebor doesn't seem the genocidal type - he's very noble. But Vyrthur does seem someone to raise a city out of spite. The dispute over the Eye could have been an internal conflict that got out of hand and the rest of the snow elves knew there would be a reckoning for it.
But all I can do is speculate, or take the sources at their word in lieu of evidence. Or best take them as something "approximating" truth, as the real truth is between the lines.
I'm also curious if the Dwarves were really so malicious as the Dunmer and Falmer make them seem
Sinistral=sinister
Im so happy camel is the homie for this.
One of the reasons I enjoy this particular series is because it sound like my house is full of kids again, only difference being the subject discussed. My son and his friends were all into GTA and COD. Don't tell them, but I prefer this discussion 😁
Literally everyone at my works knows what Sunday means for me. I’ll be cooking at work and I’ll have a server come up and ask “did you enjoy your elder scrolls podcast?” They don’t even know what the elder scrolls are 🤣That’s how much I blab about this amazing thing you guys have done. ☝️
PS Drew, please talk a bit more. You have such great insight
Lol just frying eggs, shouting about Dagoth Ur.
Was just re-watching deeper lore gets weirder vid and suddenly this popped up
Metoo
The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga is some of my favourite Kirkbride writings: they sound like folklore, and it just adds depth to the universe.
Drinking Game: Every time they say "Michael Kirkbride" or "Kirkbride" you drink ;)
Personally i drink every time the 36 Lessons are brought up! :-)
Guess who's tipsy after a few bottles of light beer.
You look upon the Tower
You *may* die if you attempt this with liquor.
Hey, Elder Scrolls addicts are depressed, not suicidal
Average person: "How deep does TES lore go?"
TES fan: "Y E S"
I feel like the Night Mother is Namira, not Mephala. Just based on what the Foresworn believe about Namira and the void, it actually makes more sense for Namira to be the Night Mother.
The issue with mephala being the night mother is that the morag tong worshipped mephala and considered the dark brotherhood and the night mother heretics for worshipping and (in the night mothers case marrying) sithis.
Theres no level of mental gymnastics I can do to rectify these things and make it coherent.
Unless mephala is manipulating both organizations using different personas
After a long day of work, nerding out over a world almost no one I know irl gives a shit about helps me decompress. Thank you both Muppets AND Camel for giving me the strength to carry on!
The god head is just some kid in the fifth era dreaming about his heroes
There... is literally no way to disprove this.
And that child appears to his most favorite heroes as a khajiit named M’aiq
The crusaders relics are Aedric artifacts, knights of the nine goes into how like the boots are an artifact of Dibela for example. If you do a bunch of evil stuff after getting the artifacts you won't be able to use them until you make the pilgrimage again, could be something of sentience.
Theory, the Thalmor want to prevent an 18th daedric prince from appearing thanks to a ninth spoke on the wheel (talos)
That’s interesting never heard that suggested before. Also wouldn’t it create two more daedric princes to make it 18 in total? Because the 8 divines correlates to 16 daedric princes
I always thought that the sky above sovngard was just Aetherius's sky. But I never considered that sky could actually be mundus.
Oh boy. I was just watching all of your podcasts in succession to have something to tie me over before you tackle the next part of this meme and here you are!
The theory about Jagar Tharn being the good guy is based on the idea that he foresaw the Oblivion Crisis and took steps to delay it by hiding the Emperor away. I can't remember if there was any evidence for it, though.
Last time I was this early Veloth hadn’t left the summerset Isles yet
Now all we need is ESO assembled on this podcast with camel and it would be more epic then the avengers.
As a student specialising in Jungian Psychology, absolutely loved hearing there are others that still examine things with the approach, especially Elder Scrolls. There's so much symbolism in the lore that-whether intentional or unintentional-tells us allot about the human condition.
Rorikstead has a shrine of Akatosh just above it And Parthanax may have visited it leaving a scale
I'm a simple woman: I see the Fudgemuppets and Camel discussing Deep Lore, I click the Like button
i kinda wish to know if you guys are reading the old one, or the new one with recent stuff like Lydia being an aspect of Kyne, Ulfric and Elenwen being lovers once and Azeroth having Daedric Cultists hidden and posting profanity in tombs.
Misanthropic Space probably refers to the reason why people can't breathe in space above Mundus. Cyrus the Restless went to space once and went to the Colony, he and his crew learned how to breathe in space through licorice straw.
Edit: TEM is also found on that same story
Wait, wait, Cyrus went to space? What's the source? I need to see this.
Search "Sword-Meeting between Tiber Septim and Cyrus the Restless" in the Imperial Library
Smilin’ Theodosia or whatever your avi is gives me a real chuckle
Australia doesn't sound like a real place.
Upside down land, with giant hopping mouse boxers? Big cats with pouches? Little two thumbed tree bears that sleep all the time, and only eat poisonous leaves? Most of the land is bright red? Sounds like something out of a Terry Pratchett novel. xD
Can confirm my country doesn’t exist lol
You can get there using no clip. It’s just a test room the devs used to test the textures and mechanics of all the higher level enemy npcs. I’ve heard it may be dlc soon.
It exists but you have to use console commands to unlock the door
Really hoping we get BOTH Hammerfell and High Rock im TES 6
Don't get your hopes up bro lol
@@allmight9840 “The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, like the other games in The Elder Scrolls series, takes place on the fictional continent of Tamriel, in which the player can travel between the provinces of High Rock and Hammerfell.”
@@ViViVex Daggerfall's content is mostly procedurally generated, ES6 probably won't be, so they'll have to put in much more work to develop these 2 regions and satisfy the fans
People cringe or get afraid of Kirkbride trips, but it somewhat simple: its buddhism, hinduism and a zest of christian gnosticism. CHIM, Amaranth and the metaphors being reality. CHIM is becoming a Bodhisattva, enlighten yourself but you stay inside the cycle ( The Wheel ) to help others enlighten ( much like Lorkhan ) and Amaranth or creating your own dream is becoming Buddha and leaving the cycle. Gnosticism enters when the Thalmor and other agents believe the physical world is a prison and you need to free yourself from it but the Thalmor take this pill with some theism from their own, and indian Buddhism beliefs crisscross with this notion because they believe the ascended spirits and gods are part of an unity and humans are gods descended into matter. If you have a bit of familiarity with some of these concepts Kirkbride becomes very simple. Sometimes its really on the nose. I for one believe Bethesda should hire Kirkbride back along with his contributors and write the next Elder Scrolls. Morrowind is maybe the best game lore-wise because of Kirkbride and others that weren't developing Oblivion, Skyrim and ESO. From where I'm seeing ESO lore is very bland.
Exactly, the only reason his stuff sounds so strange is because of the signifiers he attaches. He’s been pretty open about being a closeted gnostic or something similar
Clearly hermaeus mora is just a huge fan of lusty argonian maid and that’s why it is in online
Gents, could their be a podcast dedicated to what happens to the Dragonborn after Skyrim? About Talos mantling/Dragonborn being Talos? And can non Nords enter Sovngarde?
My canon Dragonborn is an orc, so I'm concerned her soul will get grabbed by Malacath, and not the Divines.
i would be thinking its tied into actual beliefs of character/npc obviously theyll believe sovngarde exists after visiting so theres a decently high chance as long as you didnt give your soul to a deadra during the play through. also the talos mantling/ dragonborn being talos is a fan theory not cannon (yet) but is a good topic to discuss nonetheless
@@johncasler7848 that's true, I mean the 3 heroes in Sovngarde, Tsun and all the other residents don't kick you out for being a greenskin mer.
@@Colonel-Commissar_Renik it would make sense they say similar theories about real life that if you believe in heaven and hell it will be based off your beliefs and where you think youd go but as with evidence that these are actual locations there isnt enough evidence to back it but it seems like in the elder scrolls they back this theory quite a bit with how the different religions work how based on beliefs it depends where you go tbh if you pay attention to the lore and know real life conspiracy theories it seems like they find ways to incorporate quite a few of them into the lore
ex: dragon breaks (mandella effect)
the towers giving off magic power (pyramid power plant theory)
theres quite a few more just woke up not too long ago cant think of others off the top of my head
Akatosh gets dragon souls, period. Even if you die in another gods realm and swear your soul to them, big daddy time dragon calls dibs.
@@notsae66 explain our boy in the soul carin
Work on the Megalomoths began after Reman (yes, that Reman) hired the "Institute of Incongruitech and Extrinsic Travels" to genetically engineer them. They don't have anything to do with the Ancestor Mothists afaik
Cold rainy night, snacks and drinks and a Fudgemuppet podcast.. What a nice way to end the week.
The highlight of my week, thank you gentlemen for all the wonderful content, please don’t stop you magnificent bastards!
Possipoints were a purely MK thing until ESO had Aios (Automata Incarnum Overseer System), an AI Sotha Sil made for Clockwork City, say this upon meeting the player character: "Beginning entity analysis. Error. Entity exists outside known possipoints." So now they're canon, I guess.
MK called Peryite "Aka's Shadow"
Edit: The name or Nymic defines the being. The Tsaesci are language eaters because they eat things to become that thing. They eat the name and assimilate into themselves thus taking on that name and identity.
Edit: On the Sinistral Elves, in "Lord Vivec's sword-meeting with Cyrus the Restless" the Pankratosword was a left-handed technique. It might not be that they were left-handed but that they were the ones who used/created the Pankratosword technique.
To quote The Doctor, “Yes, and it’s about to get a lot more insaneer.”
camels face when drew said its an informational video from southpark it kinda looked like he was thinking thats like taking wikipedia as only facts
Last time I was hoping camel would return. I kind of see him as the fourth fugemuppet anyway. All four of them show a deep love and understanding for the elder scrolls and all it’s different perspectives it’s hard not to
Camel looks like a custom character and I love it 😂
I have trouble with a lot of things being a left handed person myself, but I didn't know it was so rare.
love how yall bring up the challenges of being left handed in a right handed world I'm left handed and it is a challenge with softball and a lot of other things. scissors are my greatest enemy. but I play guitar and learned right handed when I was young and it was so challenging. only later in life did I learn they make left handed guitars. now I'm afraid to try left handed after playing right handed for 15 yrs. positive note left handed live on average 10 yrs longer then right handers
Personally I think the dadric artifacts disappeared and reappeared due to the elders scrolls same as they also disappear and reappear but some do end up destroyed or lost and the reappear that way so who knows tbh
2 hours worth of lore discussion and I’m absolutely here for it
drew is too fucking funny. his sarcastic argonian attraction comment had me rolling
This should be renamed as the Kirkbride podcast 👀😂
Scott is like their Michael Kirkbride, and Camel their Ted Peterson.
Scott and Michael: 🗣 🗣
Drew and Camel: 😐 😐
Soooo, Am I Just gonna Zero zum or chim as soon as I finish watching this?
you might zero sum or achieve chim (might even go mad with a black book effect) only one way to find out
@@johncasler7848
He hasn't responded, perhaps he Zero-Summed. Poor guy found the secrets of the universe and couldn't handle it anymore 😢
You tell us if you wanna stay or not
@@thalmoragent9344 the one time a Thalmor would cry for a Nord...
@@MidoriOfTheShuinsen
*"Yeah, sucks when people Zero Sum, even if he is a Nord... poor guy didn't know what he was getting into, but alas, it is the folly of Man. Once the Dominion controls the Continent, we'll ensure the Humans underneath us will follow our path and be willing subjects"*
1:13:52 I think that's a reference to Wulf, who you can potentially meet during Morrowind, specifically at Ghostgate, if you're on your way to face Dagoth Ur; he only says that he's an old legionnaire, but if you talk to Lalatia Varian, she says he was an avatar of Tiber Septim, and the game files call him that, too. (And considering they chose to name him Wulf, I think they are drawing connections between Tiber Septim and Wulfarth, which draws connections between Talos and Lorkahn...) So there is definitely some weight to the idea that Septim had a hand in Dagoth Ur's waking and downfall.
Ah Fudgecamel Muppetworks, my favorite elder scrolls youtubers
The snake people seem really cool. Especially with them live long really time
I know I am a little late, but Sinistrus, Sinistra, Sinistrum means left-handed or sinister in Latin
Watching Fudge and Camel videos, I’m pretty caught up on a bunch of lore. This video was the point where I started to be like “lolwut?”
Bendu Olo is the default name of the Oblivion player character in the construction set
Camel's back for part 3! Awesome!!!
1:07:45 There has been science in the past few years, discussing of storing digital data IN drops of water, and how to do it. Some of this data was photographs. Many people refer to photos and home videos as memories, due to how they're meant to preserve memories. Perhaps Tamriel already has that "technology" at a much higher level, in the form of some kind of magic.
DEEEPAH, DEEEEEEEPAHHHHH.
IM NOT EVEN DONE WITH THE SECOND ONE YET
Anti Magick Zones: if you choose the Underking at the end of Daggerfall, he supposedly creates an anti magick zone
Idk what i expected Camel to look like but I definitely wasn't expecting a literal viking. He needs to do a video on his hair care routine lol
Maybe the real aldmeris was the friends we made a long the way
Bruh why did we gloss over Alduin as a Jungian shadow of Akatosh? That shit is mad profound.
Sad to come back to this and see that everything that seems interesting to me at least gets brushed over
Always good to be able to go to church and come home to listen to these
I wish I could use a shield in my Right hand in Skyrim, I should probably invest in a gaming computer
This is one of my favourite collabs ever
1:45:55 Manbear Pig
I like it when camel is on
"Ordained Receptacle" sounds like Holy Grail/Vessel to me.
Especially if the Tsaesci are a race of symbiotic snakes beings or parasitic worms. A being with the power of dragons would be the greatest vessel to inhabit or the greatest role model for "serpents" as dragons also include sea serpents in real world mythology (Chaoskampf).
The King Serpent that lives/hides within a human/humanoid.
Can't speak to Thotbox, but Thottbot was made by the EverQuest guild leader of "Afterlife" Thott, originally as a resource for EverQuest, and later for other MMOs. He, and the guild Afterlife, were on my server Mithaniel Marr, and were basically our grand overlord's.
The cooling of Tamriel could actually be partly explained by major eruptions of Red Mountain. Many major eruptions in Earth’s history (and also meteor strikes/ like what killed the Dino’s ) have caused the sky to be covered in ash and particulates, which basically blots out the sun for years. This eventually leads to mini “ice ages” and global cooling because the sun’s energy can’t reach the ground.
Perhaps the two major eruptions of Red Mountain have caused cooling of Tamriel; effectively wiping out the “jungles” in Cyrodil, as well as leading Skyrim down an icy path. Granted, I know the “sun” and astrology of the elder scrolls universe is different from real life, but the parallels could be there.
If you've ever looked at /zone in Pact Cyrodiil you know how harmonious the EP really are :P
My personal take on Aldmeris is that it is an inverse Atmora - Instead of a land without the concept of time it is a land without the concept of space, so it both is and is not real. It also explains the city atop city quote as a land without the concept of space would mean two or more cities could literally inhabit the same non-space. There are probably a million reasons why this is wrong but that is my pet theory.
Considering the space/time fuckery in TES, it makes perfect sense.
I’d enjoy you guys all taking about whatever! Such a cool series
Camel, let the boys finish a sentence god damn 😂😂
I was thinking this the whole episode but I think the audio is incorrectly edited 😂😂 he didn’t do it the last episode and they wait a while until after he finishes. He also says stuff related to what they’re saying like as they’re saying it. Could just be me going crazy tho 😂
Thanks for reminding me every week that time does still exist and that it is in fact Sunday 👍
Well isn't this nice. It happens to be my birthday today and I get to enjoy this.
i feel like im sittin in an tavern with 4 scolars on the table next to me
**reads title**
*OH I KNOW IT CAN GET MORE INSANE*
1:39:50 I doubt this one just because the npc’s own luck is 800 while Sai’s luck was spread to everyone around him, not himself.
I have stated before that watching these podcasts are helping me achieve chim. And so I have ...