the simple answer is that when painting wet into wet the final painting is only ONE layer of paint so it all dries at the same rate. To explain this for those who like more info than just the simple answer: paint layers with less oil in them will absorb some of the oil from the layers with more oil in them. We're talking oil to pigment ratio and has nothing to do with the thickness of the paint itself. So if every layer of the painting is wet, the oil will move back and forth until it finds equilibrium. Thus resulting in one single layer of paint. At approx 4:37 you mention INTERLOCKING of the paint layers which allows the paint to dry EVENLY resulting in a COHESIVE paint film. This is another way of saying what I said. Yes. This is what happens. It becomes one layer of paint. If however, the base layer is dry then the oil cannot move between it and the subsequent layers to find equilibrium because the dried oil is locked in place. Thus resulting in multiple individual layers instead of one cohesive layer. This is when fat over lean is critical. Also for further clarification, a lot of people confuse thick and thin paint with fat and lean. They are not the same thing. Thick and thin refers to the texture or "body" of the paint. Fat and lean refers to the oil to pigment RATIO. So it is very possible to have a thin layer that is fat in oil and it is equally possible to have a thick layer that is lean in oil. For example, oil paint straight from the tube can be mixed with linseed oil to thin it down. The new mixture is thinner in texture but fatter in oil content. While the paint straight from the tube is thicker in texture but leaner in oil content compared to the new mixture with added oil. But if you thin the paint with turpentine or mineral spirits, the thin mixture is lean and the paint straight from the tube is then fatter by comparison. So again, don't confuse thick and thin with fat and lean. They are not the same thing. And finally one more point to make, the Bob Ross technique does work. But the true reason is simply because it is wet into wet. It doesn't matter whether the bottom layer is thick and the top is thin. When working wet into wet, any layer can be any texture or thickness and it will cure properly because of the reasons explained in my first paragraph. But which layers are thick and which are thin result in different looks or styles because of the variety of painting techniques needed or used with the variety of paint consistencies. The Bob Ross technique results in one of many possibilities that all work. But to get the Bob Ross look or style, you do need to paint with a thick base layer and thin top layer.
ok, one more point. haha. Every dry pigment is mixed with oil to achieve a paste that we call paint. Each pigment absorbs a specific amount of oil unique to that pigments properties. Too little oil, and the paint is weak. Too much oil and the excess will cause yellowing and be extremely slow drying. The ideal amount of oil is called the "critical pigment volume concentration" or cpvc. You may say it's the happy medium between too little and too much. The critical pigment volume concentration is the optimal oil to pigment ratio. Why do I bring this up? Even if a top layer is painted thinly over the thicker base layer of paint as in the Bob Ross technique, the top layer isn't considered lean just because it is painted thinly. Why? Because it maintains the same oil to pigment ratio (or cpvc). It is still fat, just painted thinly. Again it is the RATIO of oil content, not the physical thickness that determines fat over lean. However, Bob Ross liquid white is made by adding linseed oil and mineral spirits to dilute the consistency and make it liquid. If only oil was added, it would cause yellowing and would dry extremely slowly. If only mineral spirits were added, the film would become too weak (unless only a small amount was added, but if that was the case, it wouldn't be liquid). It would also be too thin to achieve the look and style of Bob Ross. So, since both are added, you have a workable liquid base paint. However, I don't know the ratio of oil to mineral spirits used. I don't know if the total oil to pigment/spirits ratio is the same as oil to paint ratio of the tube paints or if there is more or less oil in the overall ratio. When looking at actual oil content it is not possible to know if liquid white is fatter or leaner than tube paints unless the Bob Ross company expressly states somewhere the oil content ratio. Again, simply painting it on thickly does not necessarily mean it is fatter in oil content.
Hey Wild! I've been following you for a few years now, and you are one of the few UA-camrs I tell my friends (and occasional students when I give classes) to watch to learn beyond Bob. One of my studio/business concepts/slogans is "The science behind your art". I have to say, this video might just be one of the most educational ones of yours that I've watched to date (and I've watched A LOT of your stuff). Maybe in another video, you could discuss the science of the brushes? Specifically, bristle material. For example, when I first started, I got a multipack of brushes from Michaels - with their 3 different color handles (that no where on the package does it say what they're for); and I remember one of my earlier paintings...each time I cleaned my brush - the bristles were getting shorter, as apparently - I was dissolving them! Talk about freaking me out! I've since been more particular in ensuring the brushes are for oil paints - by buying them one at a time, but I'm still super curious about the differences between natural/synthetic and why we would want to use different types. Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to read this insanely long email of a comment. I love what you do, please keep it up!!! (Oh, and why don't you talk about your hair anymore like you did in your earlier videos?)
Love your "The science behind your art" idea. You should check out some of the video's on Blick's channel. They have a lady that goes over the science in art in some video... very educational. Brushes just break down over time do to use and the materials that are used with them. Generally materials are a little corrosive and acidic... hence the shorter bristles. I will see what I can do in the future for a Nat VS Syn brush video for ya. Also thanks for the awesome comment :)
Hullo Sir, I enjoyed your take on this method of painting, well explained too! I have painted with oils years ago, I dropped them because of respiratory difficulties. I discovered later that I was allergic to the turpentine and other petroleum based products, OMS and similar products. I recently purchased the water soluble oil paints and I am wondering if you have any ideas for creating a liquid white version for them? I feel as if I might have seen something in this technique, in a video, but I am just not able to find it! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and I appreciate your hard work producing this content! If you have any ideas on how to use the water soluble oil paints and “fatty” base I am truly interested in watching a video about that!
Thank You! Hvala puno! Imas li neke savjete za slikanje akrilom.Je li obavezno dodavati vodu u boje,jer neke su dosta vodene.Mora li se blendati ili mogu ici slojevi kao kod ulja?
Nema na čemu, ovdje je popis za reprodukciju nekih mojih akrilnih videa: ua-cam.com/play/PL1j4vqU7W_o14Z_YPytXuYhgBtJUwEBSj.html Na svom kanalu imam više što možete pogledati. Što se tiče akrila i dodavanja vode, ovisi... samo testovi da vidite što vam najbolje odgovara. (google translate)
I also wonder if some of the underlying oil mixes with the upper layers, so you really end up with sorta one layer. The fat over lean may be more important if you are glazing over paint that has already begun to set up. I'm not sure, but just wonder if that may be the case. Thanks as always, you're like listening to an old friend. (who I don't know, but wish all the best).
In a very simple way you are right... like I said in the video "Evenly" is the key word. When you introduce all the layer at one time with all the key factors... more or less become one that can Oxidize. Thank buddy and BTW we are friends 🔥
Very confusing cause I'm new to this wet on wet method. I paint with acrylic paint, does this method apply to acrylic paint? One thing I notice is that if I went to correct a small piece after the original paint dries a tad, it rather pushes the paint instead of adding, like you're watering it down. So, as far as I know, to correct the issue, it's best to let the first layer dry first. Am I correct?
Your are over doing it. Is just because all the paint is fresh so the amount of oils will even out and dry altogether. You are not painting in layers as is understood when talking about fat over lean. Mediums and thinners don't matter at all, cause they just become part of the mix. On one side the Bob Ross medium is just some form of thick oil (like Liquin) with white paint, and for the other the use of thinner is not actually to "stick" thin paint on the thick paint, it done so the solvent cuts the oils already there to allow you to put more paint when the canvas won't take anymore.
Hmm soooo kinda like it can evenly go through Oxidation because of mechanical bonding ha ha ha. I get what you are saying - the video is in-depth so when I have over new artists that have a question about a certain part. I can lead them to a part in the video. Layers is also in reference to different plains too ( a common question from new painters). Just cover as much as I can so I dont have to again ha ha ha I appreciate all your added info and experience to the community. Thanks for watching
so it's still basically fat over lean, right? because the amount of fat on the top layers still leaner, we didn't broke any paintmodynamic laws today, long live bob ross❤
@keithbond9423 beat me to it, but your explanation is somewhat faulty. A wet on wet painting - regardless of the method, regardless of whether your start with thinner or thicker paint, or more or less oil, is ONLY ONE LAYER. Layers in an oil painting only exist when you let the painting dry or start to dry. Thus, a wet on wet painting being only one layer, cannot possibly have fat or lean layers over the top of other layers as there is only one layer.
In other words all of this is an advertisement for some product you're selling. There are some people out here who have done a lot of painting over the years. A lot of what you're saying is a big pile of bovine fecal matter. A little bit of it makes sense. A very little bit of it. I find a lot of it problematic.
Sorry that you couldn’t comprehend the information in the video that will help wet on wet painters. Perhaps if you watch it again it might sink in for you 👍
You are having a lack of good demeanor, sir! They are a way of saying thing in a good way without saying crapshoot like you are doing! This guy doesn’t deserve of being talk this way! When I am not agreeing with someone on UA-cam, I don’t comment, simple of that! Have a nice day! 😊
Grow up. If you don’t agree, that’s fine. Move on and don’t watch his channel. There’s no reason to comment just to start drama. Everyone knows your comment was just to grab attention for yourself. Your comments and wording just show how much of an idiot you actually are. Go away
Some people just comment to draw attention to themselves. He is obviously not a mature adult and incapable of having a mature conversation. Grow up. Your comment is nothing but, to put it in your verbage, useless mandible rattle that holds no value in this atmosphere. Go away and watch another channel. There no use in commenting on the video if it is only to try and demean someone. The fact that you did it shows me that you are completely ok with people doing it to you.
Thank you. I'm gonna watch a few more times to absorb all of this info.
Please do it helps me a ton... and it really is a lot of information to take in. All of it important though.
the simple answer is that when painting wet into wet the final painting is only ONE layer of paint so it all dries at the same rate.
To explain this for those who like more info than just the simple answer: paint layers with less oil in them will absorb some of the oil from the layers with more oil in them. We're talking oil to pigment ratio and has nothing to do with the thickness of the paint itself. So if every layer of the painting is wet, the oil will move back and forth until it finds equilibrium. Thus resulting in one single layer of paint. At approx 4:37 you mention INTERLOCKING of the paint layers which allows the paint to dry EVENLY resulting in a COHESIVE paint film. This is another way of saying what I said. Yes. This is what happens. It becomes one layer of paint.
If however, the base layer is dry then the oil cannot move between it and the subsequent layers to find equilibrium because the dried oil is locked in place. Thus resulting in multiple individual layers instead of one cohesive layer. This is when fat over lean is critical.
Also for further clarification, a lot of people confuse thick and thin paint with fat and lean. They are not the same thing. Thick and thin refers to the texture or "body" of the paint. Fat and lean refers to the oil to pigment RATIO. So it is very possible to have a thin layer that is fat in oil and it is equally possible to have a thick layer that is lean in oil. For example, oil paint straight from the tube can be mixed with linseed oil to thin it down. The new mixture is thinner in texture but fatter in oil content. While the paint straight from the tube is thicker in texture but leaner in oil content compared to the new mixture with added oil. But if you thin the paint with turpentine or mineral spirits, the thin mixture is lean and the paint straight from the tube is then fatter by comparison. So again, don't confuse thick and thin with fat and lean. They are not the same thing.
And finally one more point to make, the Bob Ross technique does work. But the true reason is simply because it is wet into wet. It doesn't matter whether the bottom layer is thick and the top is thin. When working wet into wet, any layer can be any texture or thickness and it will cure properly because of the reasons explained in my first paragraph. But which layers are thick and which are thin result in different looks or styles because of the variety of painting techniques needed or used with the variety of paint consistencies. The Bob Ross technique results in one of many possibilities that all work. But to get the Bob Ross look or style, you do need to paint with a thick base layer and thin top layer.
ok, one more point. haha. Every dry pigment is mixed with oil to achieve a paste that we call paint. Each pigment absorbs a specific amount of oil unique to that pigments properties. Too little oil, and the paint is weak. Too much oil and the excess will cause yellowing and be extremely slow drying. The ideal amount of oil is called the "critical pigment volume concentration" or cpvc. You may say it's the happy medium between too little and too much. The critical pigment volume concentration is the optimal oil to pigment ratio.
Why do I bring this up? Even if a top layer is painted thinly over the thicker base layer of paint as in the Bob Ross technique, the top layer isn't considered lean just because it is painted thinly. Why? Because it maintains the same oil to pigment ratio (or cpvc). It is still fat, just painted thinly. Again it is the RATIO of oil content, not the physical thickness that determines fat over lean.
However, Bob Ross liquid white is made by adding linseed oil and mineral spirits to dilute the consistency and make it liquid. If only oil was added, it would cause yellowing and would dry extremely slowly. If only mineral spirits were added, the film would become too weak (unless only a small amount was added, but if that was the case, it wouldn't be liquid). It would also be too thin to achieve the look and style of Bob Ross.
So, since both are added, you have a workable liquid base paint. However, I don't know the ratio of oil to mineral spirits used. I don't know if the total oil to pigment/spirits ratio is the same as oil to paint ratio of the tube paints or if there is more or less oil in the overall ratio. When looking at actual oil content it is not possible to know if liquid white is fatter or leaner than tube paints unless the Bob Ross company expressly states somewhere the oil content ratio. Again, simply painting it on thickly does not necessarily mean it is fatter in oil content.
Simple to non simple love it! ha ha ha
Thanks for adding to the convo - Always good to have more people share education and experience.
Thank you professor! Seriously best explanation.
Sharing this with my students!
Ha ha ha - I gotta work on that Doctorate
Hey Wild! I've been following you for a few years now, and you are one of the few UA-camrs I tell my friends (and occasional students when I give classes) to watch to learn beyond Bob. One of my studio/business concepts/slogans is "The science behind your art". I have to say, this video might just be one of the most educational ones of yours that I've watched to date (and I've watched A LOT of your stuff).
Maybe in another video, you could discuss the science of the brushes? Specifically, bristle material. For example, when I first started, I got a multipack of brushes from Michaels - with their 3 different color handles (that no where on the package does it say what they're for); and I remember one of my earlier paintings...each time I cleaned my brush - the bristles were getting shorter, as apparently - I was dissolving them! Talk about freaking me out! I've since been more particular in ensuring the brushes are for oil paints - by buying them one at a time, but I'm still super curious about the differences between natural/synthetic and why we would want to use different types.
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to read this insanely long email of a comment. I love what you do, please keep it up!!! (Oh, and why don't you talk about your hair anymore like you did in your earlier videos?)
Love your "The science behind your art" idea. You should check out some of the video's on Blick's channel. They have a lady that goes over the science in art in some video... very educational.
Brushes just break down over time do to use and the materials that are used with them. Generally materials are a little corrosive and acidic... hence the shorter bristles.
I will see what I can do in the future for a Nat VS Syn brush video for ya.
Also thanks for the awesome comment :)
Wow!! So much information! Thank you so much for going to all the work of sharing this information with us all!
You are so welcome! Just doing my best to help everyone out that I can.
Make sure to hit that SUB button for more awesome & helpful videos.
I’ve been subscribed to your channel for years. Always enjoy your channel, so helpful.
Thanks buddy - I appreciate the support
Nice job with this one. Thank you so much.
Hullo Sir, I enjoyed your take on this method of painting, well explained too! I have painted with oils years ago, I dropped them because of respiratory difficulties. I discovered later that I was allergic to the turpentine and other petroleum based products, OMS and similar products. I recently purchased the water soluble oil paints and I am wondering if you have any ideas for creating a liquid white version for them? I feel as if I might have seen something in this technique, in a video, but I am just not able to find it! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and I appreciate your hard work producing this content! If you have any ideas on how to use the water soluble oil paints and “fatty” base I am truly interested in watching a video about that!
I am currently working on a new one.... but I do have this one to hold you over til then: ua-cam.com/play/PL1j4vqU7W_o14Z_YPytXuYhgBtJUwEBSj.html
Great job! Lotta Info here. Will take a few viewings to absorb.
Awesome, thank you! 🔥
Always coming in strong for ya 🔥
Great! I was just going to ask you about this on another of your video, great explanation! Thanks
Glad I made the video for ya and I hope it helped a ton. If it did you can help support me by hitting that Sub Button 🔥
Thank You!
Hvala puno!
Imas li neke savjete za slikanje akrilom.Je li obavezno dodavati vodu u boje,jer neke su dosta vodene.Mora li se blendati ili mogu ici slojevi kao kod ulja?
Nema na čemu, ovdje je popis za reprodukciju nekih mojih akrilnih videa: ua-cam.com/play/PL1j4vqU7W_o14Z_YPytXuYhgBtJUwEBSj.html
Na svom kanalu imam više što možete pogledati.
Što se tiče akrila i dodavanja vode, ovisi... samo testovi da vidite što vam najbolje odgovara. (google translate)
Thank you for the info.
You are super welcome.
Make sure to hit that SUB Button for more awesome videos
I also wonder if some of the underlying oil mixes with the upper layers, so you really end up with sorta one layer. The fat over lean may be more important if you are glazing over paint that has already begun to set up. I'm not sure, but just wonder if that may be the case. Thanks as always, you're like listening to an old friend. (who I don't know, but wish all the best).
In a very simple way you are right... like I said in the video "Evenly" is the key word. When you introduce all the layer at one time with all the key factors... more or less become one that can Oxidize.
Thank buddy and BTW we are friends 🔥
@@WildCreates Thanks, and have a great Saturday in sunny SoCal.
Always glad to help out
Excellent information. Quick question are White China Bristle brushes the same as natural
Depends - Can you send me the link to the ones you are looking at and I will give them a once over.
Nice video, but how long does a painting take to completely dry?
Hard to answer because it depends on how many layers. Short answer is any where from a few weeks to a few months.
Very confusing cause I'm new to this wet on wet method. I paint with acrylic paint, does this method apply to acrylic paint? One thing I notice is that if I went to correct a small piece after the original paint dries a tad, it rather pushes the paint instead of adding, like you're watering it down. So, as far as I know, to correct the issue, it's best to let the first layer dry first. Am I correct?
Quick question, do we need to use fat/oil medium when touching up already dried painting?
It depends on what kind of touch ups you will be doing. If its spot treatment then no... not really. If you plan on building layers then YES.
The fat over lean rule does not apply to the wet on wet technique... Only applies if you're painting in layers over multiple days.
I did wet on wet in the early 90s. It was a fun hobby. Messy. Expensive but fun. I never heard of these rules.
You should pic the brushes back up 🔥
Thats why i want to master alla prima because it ignored the fat over lean i only follow the fat over lean if my alla prima painting failed
I am glad this video could help you with your alla prima education.
Make sure to hit that SUB button for more awesome videos.
@WildCreates thank you iam sharing contents on tiktok sir🇵🇭🇺🇸
Or you can just follow my TikTok where I posts this stuff 😂
Sure sir i will follow you
Thanks for the sub love
Your are over doing it. Is just because all the paint is fresh so the amount of oils will even out and dry altogether. You are not painting in layers as is understood when talking about fat over lean. Mediums and thinners don't matter at all, cause they just become part of the mix. On one side the Bob Ross medium is just some form of thick oil (like Liquin) with white paint, and for the other the use of thinner is not actually to "stick" thin paint on the thick paint, it done so the solvent cuts the oils already there to allow you to put more paint when the canvas won't take anymore.
Hmm soooo kinda like it can evenly go through Oxidation because of mechanical bonding ha ha ha.
I get what you are saying - the video is in-depth so when I have over new artists that have a question about a certain part. I can lead them to a part in the video.
Layers is also in reference to different plains too ( a common question from new painters). Just cover as much as I can so I dont have to again ha ha ha
I appreciate all your added info and experience to the community. Thanks for watching
so it's still basically fat over lean, right? because the amount of fat on the top layers still leaner, we didn't broke any paintmodynamic laws today, long live bob ross❤
Not breaking anything but its more about the Evenly Part... re watch that part.
@@WildCreates minut?
@keithbond9423 beat me to it, but your explanation is somewhat faulty. A wet on wet painting - regardless of the method, regardless of whether your start with thinner or thicker paint, or more or less oil, is ONLY ONE LAYER. Layers in an oil painting only exist when you let the painting dry or start to dry. Thus, a wet on wet painting being only one layer, cannot possibly have fat or lean layers over the top of other layers as there is only one layer.
You have to remember Layers is also in reference to different plains too ( a common question from new painters).
In other words all of this is an advertisement for some product you're selling. There are some people out here who have done a lot of painting over the years. A lot of what you're saying is a big pile of bovine fecal matter.
A little bit of it makes sense. A very little bit of it. I find a lot of it problematic.
Sorry that you couldn’t comprehend the information in the video that will help wet on wet painters. Perhaps if you watch it again it might sink in for you 👍
You are having a lack of good demeanor, sir! They are a way of saying thing in a good way without saying crapshoot like you are doing! This guy doesn’t deserve of being talk this way! When I am not agreeing with someone on UA-cam, I don’t comment, simple of that! Have a nice day! 😊
@@WildCreates are you talking to me?
Grow up. If you don’t agree, that’s fine. Move on and don’t watch his channel. There’s no reason to comment just to start drama.
Everyone knows your comment was just to grab attention for yourself. Your comments and wording just show how much of an idiot you actually are. Go away
Some people just comment to draw attention to themselves. He is obviously not a mature adult and incapable of having a mature conversation. Grow up. Your comment is nothing but, to put it in your verbage, useless mandible rattle that holds no value in this atmosphere. Go away and watch another channel. There no use in commenting on the video if it is only to try and demean someone. The fact that you did it shows me that you are completely ok with people doing it to you.