Slabs do not impress me, as they come with their own set of politics like everything else in life. Members get graded higher then nonmembers and high volume clients get better grades then the few here and there clients. Several years ago I consulted my LCS about sending a coin out for grading, it was a nice CC that both him and I thought was a strong 67/68. He of course was a member and charged added fees to submit for you so in order to save a buck I submitted the coin myself. Much to my dismay the coin came back a 65. Since this was a significant change in value, I broke out the coin and asked him to submit it for me. He was unaware that I had already sent it in beforehand. He notated that he felt it was a 67/68 on the paperwork (I don't see why this was needed or should even be allowed). Low and behold it came back a 67+. Regardless what the excuses may be it super important to buy the coin and not the slab.
Or at least find a company with a good exchange/return policy ,I am now on my third return of the Canada Peace Dollar because I keep seeing flaws, at least the company is good to work with and will exchange it no matter why as long as I am not happy. Hoping the next one is a perfect PF70
I have a 1993 D Penny that is in fantastic shape. What kills me is if it comes back MS68, I basically spent the value of the coin grading it. If it comes back MS69, it can be worth over a grand. Like WTF?
Quick question on 2022 gold eagle… I have two of them in NGC slabs… Both are MS70. BUT, one is labeled “Struck at West Point Mint” and the other is just a plain MS70. Was the proof struck at W and the others not mentioned? What’s the deal? I scan them on the app and they both populate correctly but no info. How can we have a MS from West Point when all of the W I find are Proof coins? Great video by the way… this topic applies to silver eagles as well.
And this is why I don't buy graded anymore. I don't like the price tag. If I want it, then I do what you say... get the coin not the slab... literally.
So what happens in this particular situation, especially if you paid a larger amount of money for an MS70? Can you dispute a grade? What happens then? Personally, I don’t buy graded modern bullion coins like eagles or gold buffalos. New stackers can confuse MS70 with rarity but that’s not the case at all. It’s not the grade that makes the coin valuable - it’s the number of coins that exist in that grade (or could be graded in that condition) that make a coin valuable. I’d buy an MS64+ CC Morgan all day long though!! Lol thanks for sharing this video. It clearly proves that even NGC/PCGS can make [costly] mistakes.
Very interesting video Silver. You would think (hope) that the more reputable grading companies could be trusted to be "on the money" with their service.
i have a question for you and or the viewers. the price of silver to gold is about 75 to 1. does that not mean we should buy or trade for gold instead of purchasing silver ?
@@SilverSeeker I suppose if I could flip for a profit. I'd just buy more weight. Had a nice score today. $25 fv 90% quarters for $470 fiat. Walked outta there like a retard with a hand full of warm play dough. 🤪
Another great video sir I've never met a Morgan I didn't like but I have the 1996 West point gold eagle and it's graded by PDS ms69 and it's the only mint error of them making gold coins and 200 years the COA says there's 4,000 known and it has to do with the rinsing agent and I left you a message on your other phone with a tracking number sir
IMHO, collecting is a fool's errand. It's basically hoping for a lottery win. Investing is how you will become wealthy. A few will get lucky with their purchases. Anybody who is worth their salt will tell you that most modern coins grade 69 or 70 due to the perfection of the minting process. Which means they are basically worth ZERO extra money. It's like saying a modern car will go over 100k miles. Of course it will. The manufacturing process is much better than the morgan era. If you are buying an older coin, I would say it may be worth the money or long term value to get a higher graded coin.
That's a fair opinion but I collect because I enjoy collecting. Buying new cars are a fools errand also because you lose so much when you drive them off the lot. But if you enjoy the new car, if it makes you happy and you can afford it, then no problem at all. I enjoy collecting, it makes me happy, so it's definitely no fools errand for me.
I received a PCGS MS70 Gold Buffalo once that had a giant dent in the rim. I mean, it was huge. Evidently the grader dropped the coin and graded it a 70 anyway. I lost all respect for PCGS after this.
I think your expectations are too high. The Sheldon scale is based on 5 times magnification. If you truly looking for perfect strikes with flawless surfaces, then you should be collecting proof 70s.
Yeah I have a SAM W that was graded by PCGS and it is flawless amazing strike at least MS68 but I think it is MS68+ but they graded it MS67 and compared to the pic of MS68 on PCGS mine is so much nicer. Thats why I give up on grading LOL
Only graded gold i have is an NGC ms70 10ooz gold eagle got it in a really fair trade valued at 275 on NGC and yes always buy the coin not the plastic butbtjis 10th oz is flawless lol
Great video. I prefer raw coins for my archival album collections. I do however buy slabbed coins as fillers/spot holders, until I get a raw coin. I only keep a box that holds 20 slabs. When I buy a new slab, I rotate out and sell or trade a slab. One of my collections that I am proud of is my ASE set. I am only 6 coins away from having a complete set of Bullion strike, Burnished and Proof types. However, I am torn with a decision to make it an absolute complete collection by adding the 2020 P $ S emergency issue coins, as well as the slabbed versions that indicate the mint at which the bullion ASE was minted, for the years that more than 1 mint issued the coins. This decision will cause me to have to add slabbed ASE's to make it a true complete collection. What to do, what to do????
It’s common knowledge among seasoned numismatists that Grading is subjective. I am currently taking courses on Grading Canadian Coins and while there are clear requirements for each grade there is a little wiggle room within each grade. Now having said this I think you have a nice catch there because MS70 or PF70 is reserved for flawless coins. I have some Peace Dollars I want to get bulk graded when I have finished collecting them. When I do I will request that if the grade is lower than currently assigned to not recase. Instead return as is.
"Everyone knows" is not correct. There are tons of novice collectors that will pay for an MS70 just because the slab says so and not actually inspect the coin. I've never graded Canadian coins but I'm had professional coin grading courses here in the U.S. so that's kinda awesome that we have that in common.
Slabs do not impress me, as they come with their own set of politics like everything else in life. Members get graded higher then nonmembers and high volume clients get better grades then the few here and there clients. Several years ago I consulted my LCS about sending a coin out for grading, it was a nice CC that both him and I thought was a strong 67/68. He of course was a member and charged added fees to submit for you so in order to save a buck I submitted the coin myself. Much to my dismay the coin came back a 65. Since this was a significant change in value, I broke out the coin and asked him to submit it for me. He was unaware that I had already sent it in beforehand. He notated that he felt it was a 67/68 on the paperwork (I don't see why this was needed or should even be allowed). Low and behold it came back a 67+. Regardless what the excuses may be it super important to buy the coin and not the slab.
Or at least find a company with a good exchange/return policy ,I am now on my third return of the Canada Peace Dollar because I keep seeing flaws, at least the company is good to work with and will exchange it no matter why as long as I am not happy. Hoping the next one is a perfect PF70
Yes, the graders are human but I thought it was supposed to be a "committee" of 3 graders. Hmmmm. Still, good advice - buy the coin, not the slab.
On modern bulk submissions I doubt it. On older rare coins much more likely
Great vid Silver Seeker. I don’t own any slabs yet, honestly too nervous to jump in. Thanks for the info on 69 vs 70.
I usually buy MS 69 silver eagles but I'll buy MS 70 if it's just a few dollars more!
Looks like an obverse strike thru to me.
Ppl should always buy the coin not the holder
Does it go the opposite way as well where graded 69's could be 70's?
Oh I'm sure it does
I found a bent silver eagle in a NGC MS70 holder....quit modern coins....
Yeah that’s why they say buy the coin and not the slab!
I have a 1993 D Penny that is in fantastic shape. What kills me is if it comes back MS68, I basically spent the value of the coin grading it. If it comes back MS69, it can be worth over a grand.
Like WTF?
Right? Crazy
This was actually something very useful and informative for me personally. You taught me something new today and it is greatly appreciated!
Quick question on 2022 gold eagle… I have two of them in NGC slabs… Both are MS70. BUT, one is labeled “Struck at West Point Mint” and the other is just a plain MS70. Was the proof struck at W and the others not mentioned? What’s the deal? I scan them on the app and they both populate correctly but no info. How can we have a MS from West Point when all of the W I find are Proof coins? Great video by the way… this topic applies to silver eagles as well.
And this is why I don't buy graded anymore. I don't like the price tag. If I want it, then I do what you say... get the coin not the slab... literally.
5:24 that is what she said....lol sorry.... This was a great video to explain go by the coin and not the label.
Great video, just bought a 2007 w gold eagle one ounce slabbed ms 70 , looked great
Probably came in bulk just slabbed them up possibly didn't even look at them but who knows unless you were there
So what happens in this particular situation, especially if you paid a larger amount of money for an MS70? Can you dispute a grade? What happens then?
Personally, I don’t buy graded modern bullion coins like eagles or gold buffalos. New stackers can confuse MS70 with rarity but that’s not the case at all. It’s not the grade that makes the coin valuable - it’s the number of coins that exist in that grade (or could be graded in that condition) that make a coin valuable. I’d buy an MS64+ CC Morgan all day long though!! Lol thanks for sharing this video. It clearly proves that even NGC/PCGS can make [costly] mistakes.
Unsure with NGC id have to look but PCGS does have a guarantee
What is the difference between MS70 and PF70?
Very interesting video Silver. You would think (hope) that the more reputable grading companies could be trusted to be "on the money" with their service.
Could that have happened when the coin was being slabbed after grading?
I Cracked an MS 70 first strike 1/ 4 oz out of its holder
Great information. Thanks for sharing.
i have a question for you and or the viewers.
the price of silver to gold is about 75 to 1. does that not mean we should buy or trade for gold instead of purchasing silver ?
So true! I've seen one or two 70's i have questioned. Very good info!
That is a huge gash!! NGC Goofed up! Lol
The higher the grade the more money they charge you even in bulk
maybe it was damage after it was graded by the slabber
Imho, I buy for weight. As cheap as possible.
I'm a stacker and collector so I do both depending on what it is
@@SilverSeeker I suppose if I could flip for a profit. I'd just buy more weight.
Had a nice score today. $25 fv 90% quarters for $470 fiat. Walked outta there like a retard with a hand full of warm play dough. 🤪
I heard coins get milk spots after there graded ms70. Thats a bummer.
The mark on the ms70 is incredible! Good eye silverseeker.
I got silver eagle in a slab that has a huge flaw.
Another great video sir I've never met a Morgan I didn't like but I have the 1996 West point gold eagle and it's graded by PDS ms69 and it's the only mint error of them making gold coins and 200 years the COA says there's 4,000 known and it has to do with the rinsing agent and I left you a message on your other phone with a tracking number sir
Thanks bud and awesome on the coin!
IMHO, collecting is a fool's errand. It's basically hoping for a lottery win. Investing is how you will become wealthy. A few will get lucky with their purchases. Anybody who is worth their salt will tell you that most modern coins grade 69 or 70 due to the perfection of the minting process. Which means they are basically worth ZERO extra money. It's like saying a modern car will go over 100k miles. Of course it will. The manufacturing process is much better than the morgan era. If you are buying an older coin, I would say it may be worth the money or long term value to get a higher graded coin.
That's a fair opinion but I collect because I enjoy collecting. Buying new cars are a fools errand also because you lose so much when you drive them off the lot. But if you enjoy the new car, if it makes you happy and you can afford it, then no problem at all. I enjoy collecting, it makes me happy, so it's definitely no fools errand for me.
That's interesting and something to keep in mind!🔥🔥
PCGS is the best grading company triple and at times quadruple checked for accuracy
I received a PCGS MS70 Gold Buffalo once that had a giant dent in the rim. I mean, it was huge. Evidently the grader dropped the coin and graded it a 70 anyway. I lost all respect for PCGS after this.
How do those weigh TEN IMPERIAL OUNCES
If the weight you said was in troy Im sorry
1/10th of an oz and yes, troy.
Wow, thankyou for the info
I think your expectations are too high. The Sheldon scale is based on 5 times magnification. If you truly looking for perfect strikes with flawless surfaces, then you should be collecting proof 70s.
That is a huge gash and much worse than the minor flaws on the 69.... its not an expectation its literally comparing 2 coins
Whats your discord
Yeah I have a SAM W that was graded by PCGS and it is flawless amazing strike at least MS68 but I think it is MS68+ but they graded it MS67 and compared to the pic of MS68 on PCGS mine is so much nicer. Thats why I give up on grading LOL
Hmmm interesting! Thanks for sharing. How do I buy from the online community if I can’t zoom in? 😬
Hi hope all is well sorry not been around much lately. I'm gonna try to catch Saturday.
Outstanding information and opinion. I concur buy the coin, but like you, I’ll pass on the 69 and return the 70 for another 70, LOL
Only graded gold i have is an NGC ms70 10ooz gold eagle got it in a really fair trade valued at 275 on NGC and yes always buy the coin not the plastic butbtjis 10th oz is flawless lol
Great video. I prefer raw coins for my archival album collections. I do however buy slabbed coins as fillers/spot holders, until I get a raw coin. I only keep a box that holds 20 slabs. When I buy a new slab, I rotate out and sell or trade a slab. One of my collections that I am proud of is my ASE set. I am only 6 coins away from having a complete set of Bullion strike, Burnished and Proof types. However, I am torn with a decision to make it an absolute complete collection by adding the 2020 P $ S emergency issue coins, as well as the slabbed versions that indicate the mint at which the bullion ASE was minted, for the years that more than 1 mint issued the coins. This decision will cause me to have to add slabbed ASE's to make it a true complete collection. What to do, what to do????
Was there something else regarding the strike of the 70 vs the 69? Maybe a stronger defined strike on the 70 outweighed the minor dings?
It’s common knowledge among seasoned numismatists that Grading is subjective. I am currently taking courses on Grading Canadian Coins and while there are clear requirements for each grade there is a little wiggle room within each grade. Now having said this I think you have a nice catch there because MS70 or PF70 is reserved for flawless coins. I have some Peace Dollars I want to get bulk graded when I have finished collecting them. When I do I will request that if the grade is lower than currently assigned to not recase. Instead return as is.
"Everyone knows" is not correct. There are tons of novice collectors that will pay for an MS70 just because the slab says so and not actually inspect the coin.
I've never graded Canadian coins but I'm had professional coin grading courses here in the U.S. so that's kinda awesome that we have that in common.
@@SilverSeeker edited. Better?
@@NumisCanadawithBruce LOL you rock my man
Good vid, interesting bit on the graders...thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Good video
That's what I always say too Buy the Coin not the slab I'm super picky once it's seen it can't be unseen lol
😊👍
Very informative. Thanks for explaining this in detail.
Great Information. You have a fantastic camera & scope!
That is so true. I guess this is a even bigger reason not to buy slab coins off the internet but instead buy them in person.
Thanks for this info! I haven't bought gtafef coins before and had no idea things like that could be passed.
Great video and awesome examples thank you!
Great info and great to know what you are really getting. Thanks for the video
The only channel I trust these days. Rock on Seeker
Good information, thanks for the video.
Unfortunately the gash is not in the design or on it. Its in a area that doesn't interfere with eye appeal and that's not executable imo
Neither were the two much more minor marks on the 69 tho. But that said ms70 is supposed to be flawless.. thats a pretty major flaw
@@SilverSeeker I couldn't agree more. I have at least 65-70% of my 70s that shouldn't be 70s. Imo. I would have much stricter grading standards
Thanks for the info Seeker👊💥
you're a legend. thanks brah
Great demontration, thanks Seeker!