Stop Buying "First Strike" Coins!
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- SilverTorch66 presents: Stop Buying "First Strike" Coins! This phenomenon of the “First Strike” designation within the coin industry began around 2005. The most frequently promoted First Strike coins are American Gold Eagle, American Silver Eagle, American Platinum Eagle, and the American Gold Buffalo coins. The U.S. Mint has no First Strike program for the minting and distribution of its coins.
The U.S. Mint does not track the order in which it mints coins during their production and does not segregate or specifically identify the first coins minted from a set of dies.
The Mint doesn’t even necessarily ship coins in the order in which they were minted, thereby making it impossible for promoters of First Strike coins to know that the coins being promoted as First Strike are actually the "first coins struck from a new set of dies." So please be informed that this “First Strike” designation is not coming from the mint but from the third-party coin industry trying to make a buck! Marketers have created a perception of value, for an otherwise ordinary coin, based on nothing more than when the U.S. Mint shipped it to the customer!
The only way to stop this madness is to educate the entire community to stop putting credence and value in the term “First Strike”, “First Release”, and “Early Release” We need to stop paying premiums to coin dealers and distributors who are selling designated coins clearly on a false premise that they are in some way more valuable than any of the other coins minted.
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Thank you for taking the time to explain first strike and early release coins. There are lots of misperception about these designations and I for one purchased some ER silver eagles from the West Point mint thinking they would be much more valuable in the future.
I am glad they are only a very small part of my collection.
Andy - Your very welcome! Knowledge is power only if it is shared!
SilverTorch66, Check out my comment.
I would venture to say in either case buying them pre-slabbed is much more economically feasible. Not to mention the resent first day of issue arrived, NGC slabbed on feb 3. 2024 release date being Jan. 16 . makes this a real possibility of being true.
I have only one "First Stike" coin. It's a 2015 ASE with a 70 grade,....but....that'll be that. Thank YOU
Agree, when I buy graded coins i usually look for the cheapest option in MS 70. Sometimes these can be real values since they give the appearance of being the leftovers when they are actually the very same quality coin. Thanks for the video and happy Easter.
losinglouie - Thanks for your feedback, I am a fan of perfection, so If there is a reasonable opportunity to acquire a graded MS-70 coin, it is something I might consider. But this "First Strike" designation is all just bad business practices filled with deception and make believe! Happy Easter and take care!
It seem like everyone would buy First Strike coins because the first of anything is the most valuable the PCG rating seems okay to me and I would buy cuz they are said that coin was made or one of the first ones to be struck that seems okay to me!!!!!!!!!
Tee Mack - That is obviously your decision to make. I just wanted folks to be aware of the knowledge I learned from my research so the most informed decisions possible can be made! Thanks for commenting!
You also forgot to mention that the coins have to remain in the original packaging/ monster box with the original date and time stamp from when they were minted and had never been opened. So that alone is a rare scenario since most people open their monster boxes as soon as they get them which in a way would add some numismatic value. Good video nonetheless
My question is how often does the Mint change out the die? If it's within that 30 day window, then yes "first strike designation" is a crock. But if it's not your safe to assume that one sent within 30 days of a product release is on the first set of dies before they change it out. "first strike" to me doesn't = a better quality coin to me it equals one of the early minted.
You're EXACTLY CORRECT!! I won't pay a penny more for a 1st Strike coin because, as you pointed out, the Mint does NOT keep track of the order coins were struck. You are also correct that because dies wear out and are constantly changed, a coin that was minted later may be an even STRONGER strike than one released in the 1st 30 days. It is a gimmick by the 3rd party graders to charge an extra $15/coin to have them graded. In fact, I actually try to AVOID 1st Strike coins because the special labels make it difficult to put together a matching set of, for example, 2001-2023 MS70 Silver Eagles. I will sometimes pay a little EXTRA for a traditional NGC "brown label" ASE because I don't have to spend $20+ to have it re-slabbed with a modern brown label so it matches the rest of my set. So, if you plan on completing a matching set of modern coins, you almost HAVE to go with NGC brown or PCGS blue labels. That means that even if you get a really good deal on a 1st strike coin, you have to add $20+ to the price because that is what you will have to pay to get it re-slabbed in a non-1st strike holder/label so it matches the rest of your coins.
NGC and PCGS are doing a big show in my eyes.
All this coin grading (which often leads to different grades for same coin) leads to overpriced coins.
The first strike coins is the beginning of a big show in the new numismatic market.
I am no friend of Privy Marks also i know they popular in the states.
nic111 - Thanks for your feedback! I don't have coins graded so I really don't have a baseline to compare to. I am also not a fan of privy marks. I may do a vid on that too!
ANY coin .... is ONLY WORTH .... what someone else is willing to purchase it. Being close to SPOT PRICE is what matters !!
I am a huge fan of silver as close to spot as possible. I believe that spot price will skyrocket when the dollar collapses and a generic round will fetch the same $50.00 an ounce as the Panda regardless of the $6 premium you paid for it! Just my speculation!
I got my first "first strike" 2018 silver eagle ms69 today. don't feel like I lost money on it because it was a cheaper price than a plain ms 69 silver eagle. 6 ounces of ms69 one first strike for 103 bucks can't complain.
Hey Travis, When it comes to ASE's the closer to spot the better! The MS69 and "First Strike" designation on a coin made in the past decade really don't mean much as far as value. A mint tube purchased at standard market cost will usually produce a couple of MS69 coins and the "first Strike" designation is a farse and does not add any actual value. The term is misleading. The only value it may have is a false perceived value from those who don't understand that the term doesn't represent what it implies. I only want folks to be informed so they can make their own choices. Thanks for your feedback.
Now you tell me . I actually bought a 2020 ms70 ASE first strike . But this was not for the first strike I bought this coin because it’s the last year the bullion grade coins are doing made with this design and also because of what’s going on with our world at the moment.
I will be handing down certain coins to my children
If it wasn’t for the covid and the last year of design then I wouldn’t of bought it at all . Thank you for this info I will be using this 411 in the future
If the reason for the purchase is for the coin itself and not the "First Strike" claim as you stated and you are ok with the premium attached for the coin then your getting what you paid for and that's all good! Thanks for your comment.
FIRST! strike. lol. :-)
I have purchased 2 First Strike coins. One dated 2017 the other 2018. They are both beautiful. But now I'm wondering what I have.
Bobbi - If your slabbed coins are valuable and worth being slabbed then you have a good thing. For me, two things make a coin valuable. One is if it has collector or numismatic value and second is if the coin carries a special meaning to me personally. This video is all about making sure you know what your buying and these "first strike" labels are not a reason to pay any more money for them!
Because of the bad press these coins have been getting. I'm buying slabbed, professionally graded coins for or near spot on a regular basis. Keep up the bad publicity, it's saving me money on easy to trade authenticated and graded bullion.
I don't think there is a problem with the term "First Strike". The problem lies in people's preconceived notion of what that means and the lack of criteria for the term "First Strike". I get why the diehard collectors don't like them but I think hard core collectors are missing why these coins can be (if bought right) an awesome investment. Ever since I bought my first, first strike, I figured it meant they were some of the first coins to come off the press and that IS the case. It's just they are not from the first few coins but the first several months of batches of coins to leave the mint. I don't have a problem with this when they have been viewed, graded and slabbed buy a professional at PCGS/NGC. I don't see the problem with purchasing "First Strike" if you aren't paying too much. I love that no one like first strike coins. For as much as I can afford, I'm snapping up every first strike I find at or near spot.
Tim, I think the key point here is that you are able to purchase "First Strike" slabbed coins near or at spot. So in reality your not paying an outrageous premium for the label thus you are getting what you pay for. This is not always the case for everyone and I felt it is important for folks to understand what a "First Strike" labeled and slabbed coin is when they decide to buy it. Bullion products aren't even suppose to have a premium or be slabbed to begin with. Applying premiums to bullion products is a third party after market ploy to create value in something that wasn't supposed to be there. As long as enough people believe it, then there will be a market and thus potential to make profits buying and selling them. There's nothing wrong with that imo. It's basic supply economics, (supply and demand). I just want to communicate to our community to those who may have a misconceived notion about these products so they can make an informed decision to buy them or not. Thank you for your comment.
No I want my silver as low as possible to spot. Forget all the other premium over spot. Hey I’ll buy a silver eagle for 20$ sell it for 14. Never been touched or left the plastic apex sheet. So please tell me what happened there. Lol but silver stackers going to stack regardless.
james - I think it's all about timing! When the time comes....those who still have their stacks will be handsomely rewarded for their perseverance! Just my opinion!
I don't buy any Slab Coins/rounds it's just an extra waste of my time and money and you summed it up There isn't a first Strike when you see everybody with the same coin that says 1st Strike.. Thanks for the video again Silver torch 66..
Hey Billy, thanks for your comment!
I believe that third party grading on modern day coins is a waste of money, all coins coming out of the mint are to the highest standards. the only coins I will buy are the earlier coins , 20s, 30s 40s...etc. that way you know the quality of the coins and value. Who ever buys modern day coins that have been certified now, are either ignorant or just plain stupid.
Thank you for your feedback David. I think it's important that new stacker's and collectors are exposed to all experiences and opinions so they can make the best informed decision as possible.
Do dealers charge more for these designations? Not really. Most of the big dealers on ebay sell slabs that have these designation, and not any slabs without them. These "early releases" slabs now probably make up 99% of all slab bullion/ collector coins.
Arvin - As long as your not paying for the designation and only the quality of the coin inside, then I don't see an issue! I think the "Early Release" designation is a marketing ploy to prey upon consumers to believe the product is special and thus worth a higher premium even if they don't charge it! It's deceptive in my opinion!
Ive heard great piece of advice, pay for the coin not the slab as the condition can change after its initial grade. Knowledge is the greatest asset one could have.
Very wise words indeed!
I buy slabs when sellers need to liquidate at price of non slabbed coins ... otherwise I don't touch them
Hey, that sounds like a solid opportunistic situation that you've got going on! Congrats!
Great video ST66, Sad to say I have fallen pray to this industry BS. But no more from this day forward. I hate when companies take advantage of it's customers like this. I will pass this message along to all my friends that are collectors or enthusiast. Thank you once again for the time that you spend researching and sharing these educational video.
Your very welcome Mario. It's great to know the message is getting heard and useful.
As a beginner in this hobby, I found this incredibly interesting and useful. I know I won't be taken in now.
Excellent! Glad I was able to provide the information so you can make informed decisions.
First strike is definitely a marketing scam. Quality vid
Thank you and I appreciate your feedback socalsilver!
Ty for the informative video. So is it safe to say that BU is just as valuable than first strike or early release coins?
That's tough to answer because as long as people are willing to pay a premium for what they think is a "first strike" or an "early release" then there is a market and money to be made. I just want our community to know the facts so they can better understand what they are buying.
I purchased coins from HSN thinking I was purchasing a coins of more value based on the MS70 - ANACS/First day of issue certification. I even noticed that the US Mint has some of the same coins at 1/2 the price. Thanks for the information. I'll be more careful. I'm a newbie to coin collecting. Now I'm a more educated consumer.
Thanks John for your feedback! Welcome to the stacking community! It's great to know that this information is being received and is helping folks to make informed decisions.
Shame on you ! never ever buy coins from hsn or any other tv shows. they mark their coins up 100 to 200 persent
You know what I always say when it comes to the right kind of silver to...collect and hold like these first strikes?? They all sound the same when they hit the crucible. So buy accordingly.
Thank you Thank you Thank you! Such BS! Waste of your $$$.
Very welcome, welcome:-)
i have never bought a first strike or a ms-70 coin,prices are higher then from the Mint
Paying a little more for a perfect MS-70 coin is a worthy investment in my opinion but paying more for a misleading label that falsely denotes a coin as a "First Strike" is a complete waste! Well done!
I have NOT and will NOT purchase ANY of these "so-called" coins because I knew it was all just a GIMMICK.
>>> I buy as close to SPOT PRICE for all my coins. The heavy hitter Premiums I leave for the IGNORANT.
Good to hear! If you have the patients and the will, you can flip some of those high premium coins for a tidy profit but man it takes a lot of time and work! At least for me it does!
Well aren’t you soooo superior 😂
How is first strike and early release different from first day of issue.
It is all just marketing to make you believe it is some worth spending more money on! unless there is a provable way to validate the claim is true, there is no way of knowing. I just want the buyer to beware!
a coin is a coin is a coin how are collectors to know its first strike ,
thanks for the info.
Yep, no such thing as a "first strike" unless they are serial numbered.
Great video about the first strikes con. And don't get me started on the 69 versus 70 modern nonsense. Can you imagine car dealers charging multiples for a new vehicle because a third party certification said that the factory finish on one is a 'perfect' 70 versus the usual 69 grade found on most new cars? It's that ridiculous in my opinion.
TELL THAT TO MY THREE 1995W PF70 SLABBED CERTIFIED SILVER EAGLES. EACH ONE IS WORTH OVER 20,000 DOLLARS IN THE COLLECTORS MARKET. ONE COLLECTOR OFFERED ME 15 TROY OZS. OF GOLD FOR ONE OF THEM IN A COUN SHOW PARKING LOT. I REFUSED I DIDN'T LIKE OR TRUST HIM.
I have a 2020 (P) $1 Silver Eagle Emergency Issue PCGS MS 70 FS - STRUCK AT PHILADELPHIA EMERGENCY ISSUE PCGS MINT STATE 70 FIRST STRIKE
What do you think about it? I paid 129.00 I put a video of it on my channel.
Great videos btw. Plus one sub 👍🏻
If you can flip it for a profit then it's a good buy! The bottom line is that it's one ounce of silver bullion and at the end of the day it's only really worth it's melt price!
@@SilverTorch66 seriously
@@ZeroZeroZeroZeroZeroZero The market is what gives this coin value. As long as there are buyers then you have something of value. Once the demand goes away for this particular coin then it's value will revert to it metal value. Today it's worth good money. If the monetary system resets and most people are caught unprepared, there just won't be a demand for premium bullion products like there is today! Everybody will be in financial survival mode not buying premium silver! imo
So no need to get fist strike slab coins? But early Release ? Sorry am kind of new to coi. Collecting hobby but am learning.. new subscriber by the way 🙂🙋♂️🥈
would not purchase a first strike or first release .
Good to hear, thank you for your feedback!
People need to stop buying this garbage. Thanks for the vid. liked and subbed! check out my channel too
Thanks for another great video ST66! I just buy my favorites in MS70 for my box regardless of the so called designation because I got a deal. I buy the coin for the coin and not the holder except to authenticate especially for Pandas! Happy Easter!
Happy Easter to you too LLS! Thanks so much for your comment!
Most people buying certified coins already know the First Strike labels were not indicators of an actual first coin struck by any mint. I simply purchased Silver Eagles because they are recognized as the most beautiful coin in the world. It's not about the label it's about the coin and it's graded condition, minted year, and amount minted.
Most modern graded bullion is a scam
JRW3 - It does seem to be getting worse as time goes by! The standards aren't what they used to be. Thanks for the comment.
I like to buy raw coins and grade them if i choose to. A certain company likes to sell their AU, AG and Plainum coins that they have "First Rights" to sell with 2 new designations FDP and GP. Most recently are the 2018 AU and AG Brittania sets and the first ever 1 kilo Brittanias. The First Strike, Release or "Gem Proof" coins in PF70 or 69 sell up to $2,000 to $3,000 more than a raw coin. GP $300 to $500 over raw. Check this though!
In 2017 they came up with a new designation "First Day of Production" or "FDP". This was specifically assigned to the 1oz AU and AG PF Kruggerands. The first ever coin designated was one of these. PF70 FDP AU KRUGGERANDS SOLD FOR $5,000.00! A Staggering, Tremendous amount over a raw coin! They also give the designation "Gem Proof" to coins that grade PF68 or 67. These run a couple hundred dollars or so over a raw coin. The largest $$ amount was $9,000.00 for a PF70 FDP AG 2017 Kruggerand with a 50 Privy mark and dual dated 1967 - 2017. That was about $6,500.00 over a raw coin. So far this year 4 coins have been designated FDP. 2018 AU and AG incuse Maple Leafs and the supposed 1 year only 2018 AU and AG Wedge Tail Eagles design. They grade all PF coins GP when possible
One can only guess what the next one will be and how much it will cost. What's next, FDC? FIRST DAY OF CONCEPTION? Buy raw from the Mint if possible!
LOL first day of conception. I'm getting that right now!
I don't buy any slabbed coin. It's a waste of money. If you are into collecting you should be able to judge accurately what you have.
Jim - I agree however, there are circumstances that may occur with very high value specimens when getting a coin graded might be the appropriate thing to do!
For presentation purposes a slabbed coin is nice. Also, I trust the opinion of PGCS or NGC over some random yokel selling his unslabbed coin at a show telling me it’s a 70 when it’s clearly not.
Great information to share with everyone. NGC stopped calling there program First Strike because PCGS sued them. So NGC had to come up with a different name.
Silver Slacker - I heard that PCGS didn't have it trademark filed! The NGC designations of "first release" and "early release" are just as bad in my opinion! I do appreciate your comment!
Yes First Day of Production (FDP).
Thanks for an excellent video highlighting the over-marketing by the industry side of this community. I think it's a shame to have dealers bust coins out of there original holders to slab them and try to turn a profit. "First Strike" is just another up sell. I've been collecting since I was a kid in the 1970's, I still do not own a "slabbed" coin. Grading itself is subjective and the slabs are a marketing tool. If you have a valuable coin it can be graded and authenticated without slabbing it. I'll stick to "non-certified" and bullion and let someone else pay the slab industry.
James - I appreciate your feedback and agree with you whole hardily! I have some slabbed coins given to me as gifts over the years but I'm not a big fan of slabbed coins. I like perfection and thus like the idea of having a MS-70 specimen but I also believe that the grading criteria is too subjective. I have seen too many coins that, in my humble opinion, didn't even come close to the rating they were awarded. Thanks for your comment!
No I don't buy first strike coins, for the designation, but early release and first release I have! There is no misconception with early release and first release. It means the coin is released within 30 days of the release of the coin from the US Mint, not the striking of the coin! NGC is strict about that!
Misleading Video! If the coin is First Strike, NPG graded at 70, and is A Proof coin, it is a more rare coin therefore the value is more. Duh!
Great info for sure. Thanks. I’ve gotten a few without even trying. When buying slabbed Emu MS-70 coins at pre-release, for example, it seemed a certain distributor only had the one option. I won’t go out of my way to get First Strike tho. Thanks again
I hear ya, paying for a slabbed coin for the "coin quality" and not the gimmick label can be a worthy investment. Thanks for the feedback!
Is first day of issue better or should be worth more
If a "first day of issue" is backed by a certificate of authenticity or some other official document from the mint who produced it or if it has a serial numbers to validate that it was among the first day minted pieces then it could potentially hold more value to a collector. But generally speaking, no! First day issues are not special and don't warrant any additional premium in my opinion. Thanks for your question Lt.
Just stack boullion. Everything else is for suckers.
Keep on stack'n!
Some people buy coins because we enjoy looking at them. It’s a presentation thing. Not all of us are paranoid preppers.
Sadly I already got a 2020 Silver Eagle "first strike". Lol
If you can flip it before the markets tank you might be able to recover your investment.
@@SilverTorch66 I only got the one for 2020 year on the "special tv offer". I didn't pay too much for it. So it won't be a big loss.
Thank you for the informative video I have fallen prey to the 1st strike BS not anymore thank you for sharing this makes me just wanna go and just buy generic bullion it's cheaper
Michael - Your very welcome, glad this content was enlightening. The more people we can share this kind of knowledge with, the better! I happen to believe that when it comes to wealth retention the sovereign coins that are associated with where you live in the world and good quality generic bullion are the best choices!
Great now i feel stupid. I purchased 2 and im just starting to do this....sigh
Gold Vulcan- Don't beat yourself up to bad! We have all made purchases that we wish we hadn't. That's why we have this community, so we can learn from each other and share our experiences both good and bad to make us better stackers in the end!
Thank you. I have been learning a lot from you and others . I do feel a crazy since of urgency. But as of right now i think im getting a better direction. The stack is right at or a tad over 80 oz. I do have more eagles than the other pretty stuff. What im finding aggravating is shipping. Looking for deals is also tough. I did find a local shop thats selling me the 5oz America the beautiful rounds at 92 a piece. Thats cheaper than I've found them anywhere. I have 8 so far.
That's not a bad price for a 5oz piece! Well done!
I did buy several 2018-W PCGS PR70DCAM Silver Eagles designated as First Strike coins. Now I feel sad. Thanks :)
icon2012 - The coin you purchased is an exceptional specimen and most likely worth every penny you paid regardless of the "First Strike" designation.
thank you. i then went an made the mistake of looking at videos concerning milk spots and how some coins start life graded @ PR70 but eventually get down graded due to this issue. i got a lot to look forward to with the numismatic aspect of this particular purchase, LOL. great video though. thanks for the info.
Although not immune, ASE's generally hold up well and don't always spot up! If your really worried, you can always sell the coin now while it is still retaining it's full value. On the other hand, it's a beautiful coin even if it does spot up in the future. Spotting is just a part of the silver bullion world! But, if your OCD, like many of us are, then this probably won't be an option for you! lol Either way, good luck!
icon2012 lol
I knew these were a scam the first time I saw an infomercial for them on TV. Unbelievable how gullible the public is.
Awesome video .thanks.
Your very welcome ronnie, I how the information was useful to you.
What about First day of issue?
Ag 47- First day of issues do command collector value "if" they are either backed up by some official documentation, like a COA or something from the mint that created them or they are numbered in some way and generally I mean serial numbered by the mint or at a minimum, you have some kind or news release, story, pictures ect to validate that this specimen is truly a First Day of Issue! If all you have is a third party case that says it's a First Day of Issue without any other validation then I would shy away from it as legitimate!
Why does PCG ass still slab them is for Stright MS 70 into 2021
If there was traceability from some kind of program (similar to the Canadian one) then it might be a different story.
I've seen apmex first strike prices almost identical as non labeled. And I've heard these coins can be considered at the same time as genuine.
Great advice there are occasions where coins stuck first say first 100 but come wirh coa but is very rare. I dont buy many graded coins but when i do its as they really cheap and first strike don't mean anything as i pick them up at same price as a regular coin..and flip them imo certain bullion coins not worth grading or buying graded only if the coin has a certain value then its worthwhile and after all grading companies are just that companies looking to make a profit and i do believe they look after there big graders as well as they their bread and butter customers. all in on the scam..so if is close to a ms70 it will get a 70 but you and me a ms69. preying on those that sucked in.. I'm not anti grading but when tbe grading cost more than the value of the actual coin. You gotta question the motives has to be to try and make more $$$ from it.. Anyway they can..
rox dude - Numbered first strike coins with COA's are very legitimate and have great profit potential, I agree! The deplorable business practices that are ever prevalent in our space is inexcusable. We have the power to change it by controlling where we spend our fiat! If we don't do business with them, then they will have to make adjustments to regain our trust and offer a legitimate product or service that we are willing to pay for. Great comment, thank you rox dude
SilverTorch66 indeed it's how everything works in the system. Fleece the ppl and that can only happen if they stir up a demand. So they can charge more for a more limited coin..One of the reason i wont buy swans or now emu coins..at over inflated prices outta principal really. I not buying in to it just cos they 25k or 30k mintage. Kinda the same and may end in us paying more for coins with a design on..period..it could even be a sign they struggling to sell out of higher mintage coins and most kooks etc take 2 years for main dealers to sell out...but they need to make same profit to keep a float so could be sign of the dwindling collector market or they want to.kill the secondary market so they make the profit and no scope for us to profit..we the ones who take the biggest risk the end consumer as we buy at the highest price..
I refuse to buy the Krugerrand for the same reason! They can keep it! Everything is about maximizing profits not building customer loyalty. I would rather sell at a lower profit margin to gain a larger and loyal customer base in the long run rather than to make the quick buck only to never see that customer again!
SilverTorch66 indeed
The first strike is not the big deal it’s the coin grade it’s perfect ms70 is this Real is the question
What if you have two coins, same price, same year, same grade (PR-69), but one is a first strike. Would you take the first strike label, or non first strike, all other factors being equal?
I would take the first strike labeled slab because there are still a lot of people who value them! The reality is that both coins are indeed equal so what your choosing is the packaging not the coin! Here's a question for you! What if you have two coins, same price, same year, same grade (PR-69), but one is in a "first strike" slab and the other one is really a first strike at a mint ceremony and there is a newspaper story with a picture of the seller of the coin receiving it at the mint by the mint director but it's not in a slab but a professional looked at it and told you is was PR-69 grade. Which one would you choose? The slabbed first strike or the real first strike but not officially graded?
@@SilverTorch66 I'd take the non-slabbed coin, assuming you had the documentation/ability to prove what you're saying. Although to be honest I don't really care that much about when it was minted in the process. I was only asking because I'm looking at getting a coin and trying to decide between the "first strike" label, or the non-first strike. Your answer makes sense so I'll go with the first strike, since they're the same price in this case.
I'm glad you value the coin and not the packaging! But when all things are equal and if the packaging can present potentially more value then it only makes sense to chose the higher value.
SilverTorch66 tbh I don’t really like slabbed coins in general, but I’m trying to get a 2006 reverse proof gold eagle, and it seems like you can only find those in slabs, so I wanted to learn a bit about the different labels.
If you buy a slabbed coin for the coin itself, there's nothing wrong as long as what you pay is reasonable for the grade of the coin you get! Those reverse proof Eagles are gorgeous!
Do all West Point coins. Have a W mint Mark on the coins
To my knowledge they do! There could be some exceptions and you'll have to do a little research to determine that.
No
Great information. I have several PCGS MS70 First Strike coins, all modern coins. The premiums for these coins I have are consistent with any graded coin MS70 , and close to what you will pay if you sent a raw coin for grading to PCGS or NGC yourself. One would pay about $20- $25 to have a coin graded plus shipping. I think that many know that it is just a packaging /marketing/branding strategy. NGC stopped using First Strike because PCGS sued them. NGC now labels them Early Release or First Release. Another great video, my friend! Happy Easter, take care.
Hello friend, it sounds like you're paying for the value of the coin and not the label and that's a good thing! Your money is well spent if your getting a perfect specimen that is eternally protected and you feel it will appreciate over time to cover your premiums. Or......if it is something that has such significance to you that the price just isn't a consideration. I have a few of those! I read that the PCGS didn't have the trademark filed. I'll need to read up some more about it! When you get time check your PM.
Wow very interesting did not know this video was very helpful
If people are willing to pay for it then it has value if you agree or not. Besides we pay for the graded coin not just "First Strike"
Yes indeed! Value by its nature is a societies universal willingness or acceptance of something that they believe will be desirable and accepted by others. If you feel the premium you paid was appropriate for the graded condition of the coin alone, then your money was probably well spent. The reason for this video was to bring awareness to those in the community who believe the tagged title of "First Strike" was something legitimate that made the coin worth a higher premium than would be reasonable above the value the graded coin by itself. Thanks for your feedback!
I own First Strike Coins and yes I will buy and sell them going forward. I am OK with the a business providing a product that their customers want.
Stokjockey - There is a very good market for these "First Strike" designated coins right now and I believe that as long as people want them, you will be able to continue to make great profits. That's just business economics. I just want folks to realize what they are buying and be able to make an informed decision when they spend their money! I do appreciate your feedback and candor. Thank you!
Have you done a video on the grading of coins?
jason07770 - I recently did a grading vid for the US/Philippine Peso 1903 to 1912
@@SilverTorch66 thanks ill check it out and thanks for the video's.
Now I know👍🏽
Knowledge is power! Especially when it is shared:-) Good Stacking!
Like thoes beats
Thanks, good to know!
Thank you!!!!!!!!
Very welcome!
I completely agree that is a bunch of crap but if you look on coin sites and ebay all the coins graded by pcgs (in the same date and grade) cost the same amount. With or without the "First Strike" designation. Almost as they felt the need to write something on the label, no matter what it was. I always watch your videos and take a lot of your "opinions" as perso al advice. One of the only videos I'm not completely sure I agree on, yet, is the litecoin. I want to believe it, just have not jumped yet. As always great research and information!
Portrait Coins - It's all about the might buck! Anything to get the public to think it's special and thus more valuable! As far as Litecoin, I appreciate and respect your candor. It's a huge philosophical transition from PM's to crypto's and it does take conviction, just like it does with our silver. If we really didn't believe in silver, there is no way we would continue to stack it year after year and watch it never appreciate in value. We would have given up on it long ago. But we don't, because we believe in it! It took me a while to believe in crypto's and really understand them and embrace how they will retain my wealth and fill a short to mid term gap in my investment portfolio that silver was failing to do. I will always have PM's as part of my investment plan and I have yet to sell a single ounce I have accumulated up till now. The crypto's are a compliment to my personal investment strategy but they may not be for everyone. If you don't believe in them and what they can do, then you really shouldn't spend your very hard earned money on them regardless of anything anyone else says! Take care!
but what if a first strike coin is less then a normal coin
I've known this for sometime, Thanks for the video. I buy them occasionally only if I get a sweet deal on EBAY because other people give them value and If I don't pay more for them. For Example I got a First strike Mercanti Signed MS 69 ATB 5 0Z 2010 GRAND CANYON for $119. I couldn't pass it up.
Mage - There is a market for them for sure and money can be made as long as what your paying for is the coin and not the label! The Mercanti signature also has real collectors value as well!
Spot on.
Thank you!
Damn I brought a few so call first strike coins
Thank you..
You're welcome
i just buy whatever is cheapest when i go for gold. last time i bought gold i was able to get a 1/4 oz gold eagle first strike for just 20$ more than a 1/4 oz gold bar i went with the eagle just because its an actual coin and people pay more for them anyway. once the premium gets anywhere above that i would rather just stick with a bar and get more gold for less money. i couldnt pass up the eagle tho for just 20 bucks more
also side note last time i bought a 1/4 oz gold lunar rabit for like 10 bucks more than a bar. anytime u can get a good deal on a sovereign coin vs a bar the coin is the obvious choice. especially a lunar coin that theoretically holds some collector value aswell.
Hi ST66. No business will pay a premium for first, early, or anything else on a label. Buy the coin, not the label! *:-)*
Donald - Well said! I totally agree!
Well Done Silver Torch
James - Thank you very much!
The ONLY reason NGC “eliminated” their ‘First Strike’ designation, is that PCGS received a copyright for the term. NGC’s ‘Early Releases’ and ‘First Release’ labels serve the identical purpose of the PCGS ‘First Strike’ program.
The Blake - You are very correct. Both companies are using deceptive marketing to get sales in my opinion. Thanks for your comment.
While I agree that it’s a marketing gimmick, I have bought 2 first strikes because I wanted a MS70 before the collector hype drove the price up. Right now you can order a first strike MS70 Emu for $100. Odds are that if you wait for the non-first strike MS70 to come out, it will cost more than $100 because the premium will continue to rise until that time. My other first strike is the 2017 MS70 Swan. I don’t regret buying it at all, as APMEX currently values it at $300.
There are very few other coins that I’d bother getting that early, as ASE’s and the like don’t appreciate nearly fast enough. And I’d never spend extra for the first strike designation when a normal MS70 is available cheaper.
Good video!
Sucker4Silver - The Emu and Swans are exceptionally collectible coins right now and I'm sure will produce great profits. There is no question that the perception of the main stream public believes in the increased value due to these designations and nice profits can be made but I think these two particular coins themselves are the true value! They could be designated "crap coins" lol and still be worth more than most any MS-70 sovereign coin. The coins are just that popular right now! I have a tube of the Swans I bought very early on out of Hong Kong so, I totally agree that your particular choices on these two coins were good ones!
What's worse is that these corporations clearly state in their price valuations that only PCGS /NGC graded coins are worth what their guides say...therefore by listing their own "Product" in their own price guides there is an incestuous amount of underhanded bullshit happening with these designations. I not only will never buy one, I hope nobody else does either. Maybe these videos make a difference because it is straight up insider trading to value your own product at an inflated price like it is somehow a legitimately different product...this is also another reason I will not even send my coins off to be graded...no need in giving these asshats any money whatsoever.
Mark - well said brother! The more we discuss this topic and bring awareness to it, the less people will be swindled out their hard earned money! I understand folks have to make a buck and I understand that there are many people out there who will pay serious premiums because they still think that this designation is some more valuable to have and it is this reason that many still buy them. They know they can quickly flip them for a tidy profit. That's business. You have a buyer, so you sell them what they want! I just want to make our community aware of what the true meaning of the labeling is so they can decide for themselves and make the best possible informed decision about buying these products with miss leading labels!
Thanks
Kimberly - Your very welcome!
Actually the U.S. Mint (at West Point anyway) does know which coin is a first strike, but there is no chance that anyone in the public can get one.
After a Die Setter changes a die, he/she will take the first coin minted, inspect it, put it in a small envelope, put a bunch of information on the envelope (like die number, date, time, etc.) and take it to a quality control person for another inspection. It is then stored. The same process is done for the last coin minted before the die change. Every first and last strike coin is still at the West Point Mint, in little envelopes, in storage. This system helps route out error coins before they can be shipped (e.g., when inspected, if the last coin shows a broken die, the mint will go find every coin with the error and put them aside for melting.) and if someone tries to claim an error there is solid proof one way or the other (if the first coin is good and the last coin is good, so are all the ones in between, at least for die errors). Anyway the point is that no first strike coin has EVER been graded, but there actually is such a thing as a first strike coin.
Post script: So what happens to all these coins? Some day, many, many, many...years after minting, most of these coins, that you would love to have, will be melted; the rest, a very few, will stay in storage probably forever. It would be nice if the mint could sell these real first strike coins at what they are worth, generate some revenue for the Treasury, but the law does not permit this ☹️
This is how the minting process of quality control is set up. I think there is way too much emphasis on a "First Strike" coin.
well said amigo! really like this video! keep up the good work Mr. Torch!
Thank you! Will do!
awesome video bro. Thanks for the info that I was totally unaware of! I have bought a few "first strike" coins. You can believe that i will not be doing that anymore!!
Slick Silver - Good to hear, pass the word to your friends as well! Send them the video link if you wish!
Such coins are no more than just another marketing gimmick. To quote P. T. Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute and two to catch him."
lol..... How very true!
Very informative. I must admit that I too have purchased coins (no doubt at a Premium) with these designators thinking I was getting some of more value. Thanks to the information you have shared, I won't continue to pay up for these coins.
Glad I could pass this knowledge along so that informed decisions can be made. Take care!
ST66, what about the coins designated (FDI) First Day of Issue?
Mario - If the first day of issue product has a legitimate COA form the source who created the product and this information is verifiable through some publication or catalog ect. These products can have great potential for value as a collectors item. It's all case by case, I would say!
Personally, I would avoid First Day of Issue. Nobody cares is a coin if slabbed on the first day of release. I'll also avoid autographed slabs.
I made a video about 3 coin myths and talked about this...amazing how many people argued with me about this fact! Thanks for spreading the word and hopefully saving someone some money!
Thanks Cull - You hit'em high......I'll hit'em low lol eventually they will fall:-)
I do but you got to do your work 1 If your knew get some help!
This is true, you can make some really nice profits if you know your coins and the market!
This video shed some light on an Early Release - 2007 American Silver Eagle that I own. It was a gift & I find it fascinating that I now know more about this item than I did before. Thank you for that!
Your very welcome. Knowledge is power!
What about advanced release and first day?
Happy Easter thanks for sharing
And a very wonderful Easter to you as well Annie!
So true .....Never have Never will
Very great to hear! Thanks for your comment!
FIRST DAY OF PRODUCTION too.
That's my favorite label from PCGS I get slabs more so to protect the coin
Bill - The slabs are great for protecting a quality coin but the labels are miss-leading people to believe that they are a more valuable specimen than other coins and that simply isn't true!
I have found some deals where the coins happen to be "first strike" & have bought them. Great video. I learned something new. Thanks!
Your very welcome Patrick, glad you gained something from the content!