I think it is worth mentioning the mystery in Oathsworn. I know King of Average looked at the minis but I didn't. I actually won't know what boss I'm facing until it is revealed and that is fun to me.
I am all in on Oathsworn. I watched several videos on Primal and bounced off of it until about the forth one. Now I can't decide. You have played both and you commented a lot about random versus deterministic. While I love dice, and exploding dice more, what intrigues me the most about Primal is the monster behavior cards. You know your moves and you know your partner's moves. You know what the monster is going to react to. However, you don't know how exactly it will react and how that chain reaction could be a nothing or a major deal right in the middle of a player's activation. This is the most promising element of Primal to me. This is what has me on the fence. The monsters seem more alive than game-y. It is simultaneous turns, but not in the race mode of Project Elite. It is cinematic and can surprise you and interrupt you in ways that dice (miss, hit, or hit a lot) don't. To me the most promising element of Primal is this "we go" (monster and player) with mid-turn surprises. Meanwhile, while lacking "narrative", you have players jumping behind rocks or monsters spinning to breath fire on a sneaking player only to have the other player jump in to block it with a shield which enrages the monster. This is all on the same player's turn. Am I wrong? At first I saw Primal as just another kickstarter looking to sell miniatures. However, now I am seeing the AI and hidden reactions as a pretty cool and defining feature. I will say I worry about how much the player has to track from multiple sources while playing a turn in Primal. It reminds me of the scattered information of Massive Darkness 1. This seems to further fragment and mentally tax the player decision trees (or the chess part of your chess vs checkers).
Great video! I love games that present a challenging card puzzle with combos. Mage Knight, Spirit Island, and Slay the Spire are some of my absolute favorite games. The way you describe Primal it looks right up my alley. Thanks!
oh yes 100% then this is something I'd suggest you look into! Building that combo is 95% of this game and a skilled player can accomplish really impressive combos compared to someone only thinking perhaps for that turn only :)
Oathsworn is my most wanted game ever that I couldn’t afford! I fell in love with their components and minis and maps and every bit of story they put out. I hope they are massively successful and maybe I can save for a 2nd edition someday.
I'll share my secret strategy with you... Make a friend who has a kickstarter weakness. :D MWAHAHAHA I have backed like 6 games since 2013 but I have a friend who backed like 20 games last year. He keeps a spreadsheet just to track of everything. Side benefit - I getta play stuff and try it.
Thank you for this. It further solidified for me that I did the right thing for myself and my kids I going all in on Oathsworn-into-the-deepwood. The fact I can have my kids play a simple character and still be affective really is appealing. Thank you
Since you're playing this with your kids, I figure I'll give you a heads up about the story. The story can be really dark and harsh. I would say that if you're ok with your kids playing, watching, or reading the Witcher games/series then you're probably good to go. If not, be forewarned that Oathsworn is just as harsh and brutal.
100% with you there! My daughter enjoyed the game a lot more with the companion board and she even dealt the killing blow! Made her day and made me happy as I didn't have to manage her moves as well :)
@@ClintK. I haven't played all of the various paths in the story, but I have NOT run across any sex or lude undertones. There are times where you'll see language like damn or hell. It's not frequent, but it has been there a few times. There are more idioms that imply things, but the idioms will go over most children's heads so I wouldn't be concerned about that. What I mean when I say that it's harsh and dark is that there are times when you might be given an option to execute someone or make morally challenging judgment calls. Having your children a part of that kind of decision-making is what I meant when I said it is dark and harsh. That sense of playing judge, jury, and executioner.
Thanks for the excellent content. I'm getting oathsworn, and you reinforced the reasons I am super excited about it. Your description also tells me to stay a mile away from primal. Good deal. Thanks.
In Oathsworn, I actually use the dice as counters when deciding what to roll and possibly upgrade/empower, even if I know that I'll only use cards for that specific attack. I like the tactile feel of fiddling with dice.
Thank you for this direct comparison sort of video! This is my favorite type of video that you do, and I wish more content creators would follow suit. You had an earlier video that convinced me to back Arena: the Contest because you likened the story side to Indiana Jones rather than the ubiquitous grim/dark story campaign games. If another game comes out with lighter adventure like this, please do a compare/contrast with Arena (coop/campaign mode).
A good comparison thank you. I have backed Oathsworn and planned to get Primeval, however i do think Oathsworn is the game i will prefer overall as it offers a lot more variety and characters with real differences and theme. However the core box of Primeval is definately worth it for one off battles - your video has helped me to resist going all in on Primeval and the reality of getting everything played with both games is so unlikely. I am also in on Stormsunder core box as a result of your channel as it would never have heard of that one otherwise and boy does that game look good too.
I think the card and dice interplay in oathsworn offers more nuance then it appears as I understand you can freely swap between which you use during the game. Since the cards have a set number of modifiers and misses and are of known quantity these can help inform your gaming and your odds when using them. For example if you draw a really bad series of cards one round and miss an attack as a consequence there is a good chance that the next time you use cards you will have a higher chance of success as the remaining cards will be that much better. You can then use this knowledge to save drawing cards (rolling dice instead) until you get that right combo of attacks and then use the cards knowing the odds are in your favor.
I'm all into Oathsworn, cause it sounds realy like a boss battle game with different styles on how to fight the encounter. It reminds me at boss battles in WoW
Great breakdown KoA. This video served to further deepen my hype for BOTH games and locked in my all-in gameplay pledge on Primal. Completely justified a place in my collection for both. I want to have a large number of different experiences at my fingertips without fully duplicating things. Who has time for that?
Thank you very much for the indepth analysis. How would you compare the boss battles of Aeon Trespass: Odyssey with these two games in terms of complexity and uniqueness? It seems AT:O has some extremely interesting stuff like story progression in battles.
I backed AT:O and am super excited about it. I changed my Early bird all in on Primal to a $1 pledge. I am more of a story and narrative person and Primal doesn't really seem to have that.
Watching my big narrative versus video from before featuring AT:O with this video in mind should provide that answer pretty well. To summarize: AT:O is still my top pick personally.
I am a collaborator on Oathsworn and ATO and am personally going all-in on both projects, just saying this as I have a biased view on things. ATO and Oathsworn are very different styles of the same genre of game. It is more appropriate to compare ATO to KDM if you want an apples-to-apples kind of comparison. That being said, I think they will still be compared since they fit into the boss battling genre. ATO and Oathsworn have very different scopes within the narrative story being told. ATO is telling a grand epic that is reshaping what is happening across the entire populous whereas Oathsworn is following the journey of 4 people/humanoids. Both have a great story but the scale of the story is just different. That being the case, in ATO you care more about what happens to your civilization than you do the individual titans you are controlling (which can and will die). In Oathsworn, your character is vital to the story and you get attached to them. In ATO your titan's role in combat changes based on what kind of gear loadout you bring. In Oathsworn, your gear is supplemental but your class defines the role you can potentially play in combat. Both games use valid and satisfying AI systems. I think that you will enjoy both if you like really challenging combat. ATO leans more toward how KDM implemented combat in that there are an AI and a BP deck. Also, ATO doesn't mind killing you and can be rather unforgiving in that regard. Oathsworn is harsh, and at times really hard on you for not making good tactical choices, but it doesn't necessarily implement 1-shot kind of mechanics - doesn't mean you can't get 1-shot, but that isn't the intent. ATO and Oathsworn are both long games, but ATO will have the edge since the story arcs (Cycles) are just more numerous. Both games will deliver at a bare minimum a solid 60+ hours of gameplay. All in all, if you really enjoy the style of game mechanics that KDM had then I think you will like ATO more. ATO is the route to go if you want high-stakes world-changing kinds of stories. Oathsworn is the way to go if you want that personal journey to be the area of high-stakes. I love both of these games and they have both been fantastic experiences to be a part of.
I’m all in on Oathsworn, Primal did absolutely nothing for me. Between having far worse miniatures (shoutout Eastar) for more money, no real story, and art that doesn’t appeal to me...the choice was easy! I guess that makes me a lucky one!
Hehe i wanted to like it too. I guess its pretty and everybody is hyped. The kickstarter hype is real and restrained myself from backing this to be just a part of it. Full into Oathsworn though!!
Same got into the hobby late and hopefully TGG fulfills the order. Primal while looks nice from a miniature perspective I don't see the immersion. In addition after seeing what Eastar did with prior minis I'm afraid to back. Worse is their FOMO and pricing that will increase almost $60 for All-In in the PM.
Thanks for this video KoA! It really has affirmed my decision to back Oathsworn and not Primal for all the reasons you mentioned. The weight and thinkiness of Primal looks like something I would personally love because I like mid-heavy weight euros, but nobody else I would potentially play with would like it. I can't drop the amount they want for the all-in if it doesn't tick every single box I need.
That's great! You are in the ideal position I think in KS now. It's hard to realize the difference between what you like and what your group will actually play. Something I still struggle with myself.
I'm all in with Oathsworn but dropped my Primal pledge to $1. I think both look good, but I think Oathsworn seems to have more to offer. I may up my Primal pledge during the pledge manager, but I'll have to see how I feel at that time. Thanks for the comparison!
I late pledged Oathsworn on your recommendation, KoA, and I am happy to say after watching this video! Btw.. missing the piano music over the disclaimer at the beginning. 😄
This is a nice video but a strange comparison. :) Like you said Oathsworn is more a narrative game and has more of an adventure game or dungeon crawler like Stormsunder, Middara or other Games of that kind. But Primal is actually more a mechanic focused, abstracted pure fighting game with crafting elements. They are so different that the comparison can only have the purpose to find out they are different. :) I backed Primal because I really like the mechanics and because it has a campaign with short game session that can well be played on a week day and yet has a satisfying building aspect. For the weekends I backed Stormsunder 🤩
This video is 100% made because it was requested so much. I suspect most people just view it as another card based boss battler and were hoping to see if this really stood out or not.
Oathsworn all the way! Primal seems like a game I would find repetitive very quickly, a kind of one trick pony. And for that price tag I'm not interested.
Oathsworn. I was really looking forward to Primal, but their card combo system will easily lead me to some serious analysis paralysis where I won't be able to make a decision because I'm trying to think of the best possible scenario for my party and I.
Mhm yeah Primal could lead to some AP if the person is prone to that and a alpha gamer isn't there to do it for them. It does best with a group of power gamers I feel.
Primal is perfect for my situation. An infant and a toddler makes board games hard to manage right now. Quick set up and minimal fat while focusing on my 13 year old’s preference of combat. Less miniature and components are also better when the toddler jumps the baby gate and makes a mad dash for the components on the table.
What's your favorite high fantasy game where you level a character and progressively get better gear weps/armor i.e. rusty dagger>fine steel>magical wep>legendary fire blazing sword with special affects. From killing monsters and bosses?
For a board game? Massive Darkness. There's actually not too many where the loot comes directly from the enemies - but that one is good fun and neat to see an enemy with a big sword and then you kill the enemy and get the sword :D
There is a clear winner here and of course is...: Primal the Awakening Now I would be more than happy to buy someone's pledge on Osthworn as I missed the campaign ;)
Thanks for the video, it was very helpful, as I am getting interested in these two games (I play mostly solo, true solo or two-handed, it makes no difference). Eventually, also given my pledge of Kindoms Forlon, I will do the Primal LP (core+ 5 player expansion), as I now want a very combat focused game. Do you consider Primal a good choice for solo play? Just curious, more than a year after the video, are the opinions you expressed in the video still the same?
I'm more story/narrative driven with campaigns, so Oathsworn definitely is it. I like Oathsworns darker theme and setting, as well as the various hunters/heroes. I do like Primal's minis and monsters a little better, but not a fan of primal's system and limited maps, and virtually no story except to upgrade your character, rinse and repeat.
I do like story but i prefer gameplay and Primal offers that strategic value with nightmare modes and different boss mechanics that provide variety for replayability that i went all in for. Great video
Hey, King. What is your choice between Aeon Trespass and Primal? I know they have even more differences than Oathsworn has with Primal, but I just wanted to know your opinion. Thanks for another great video! Cheers!
@@TheKingofAverage Glad I grabbed Aeon too from TGG when I did Oathsworn. Think I may just hold off on Primal, the minis are the main draw for me since we are starting to paint minis but the higher gameplay ceiling and the lack of story narrative might not make it a game we like to play.
Highly with new teams. Playing a game with a witch in the party is a completely new experience almost as they are laying down terrain tokens and doing AOE that can hurt you too, etc.
Here are a few things I would add or point out: 1. You said that you don't fight all of the bosses in both games. This isn't true. In Oathsworn, you fight all of the bosses, no way around this. If you tell me what chapter you're on, I know what boss you're going to fight. The story of how you get there will be potentially very different than my method, but it's the same boss. 2. In Oathsworn, you'll have 21-22 sessions. When I say a session I mean story+combat. 3. Terrain: In Oathsworn, you'll find that it is pretty bog-standard the first few battles...but that quickly changes. Can't say much about this due to NDAs, but the terrain will matter =) 4. Equipment: In Oathsworn, there isn't crafting, but there will still be hard choices for your equipment. Oathsworn also has a large number of unique items that you can acquire each fight. You've got to remember that you have equipment attrition in Oathsworn so your equipment constantly changes as you play because it must. 5. Oathsworn story: if you loved the first few chapter's story...oh my goodness, just wait. This game's story is incredible. Easily could be a TV series like the Witcher. I am all-in on both Primal and Oathsworn because I think they are different enough that they will appeal to two different sets of players in my group. For those who just want a quick boss fight that they can play and have fun with that evening, I will pull our Primal OR Townsfolk Tussle. If my group wants to have a deeper story that accompanies the boss fights and they can see how they are making a difference in the game world then I'll bring out Oathsworn or Aeon Trespass. Oathsworn and ATO will shine best with a consistent group who can experience the game together (or solo play). I think Primal and Townsfolk Tussle will be the better option for 1-shot game night sessions.
Thanks for the info! I was under the impression that you might miss a few boss fights in Oathsworn, but that was perhaps old news, thanks for the clarification! I didn't mean that the terrain doesn't matter, apologies if it came across that way, and certainly didn't want to spoil anything and also opted to consider the witch's tiles as not terrain but still compared to Oathsworn I've not played a single game where terrain mattered as much as it does there. Including Oathsworn. It's not pointless, but it's not as make or break every single turn as Primal was. The story of Oathsworn I know the least about (and am fine with that) - I've mostly just played the battles :D But even from what I saw it's one of the best narratives out there IMO. Not sure it'll beat Stormsunder thanks to the characters in Stormsunder actually having personalities, but it's up there for sure!
@@TheKingofAverage There are maybe 30% of the fights in Oathsworn where the terrain IS going to make the fight wildly different, certainly not all of the fights, but as I mentioned...things ramp up in intensity haha. Stormsunder has more of an RPG feel to it, kind of like Midarra. Oathsworn feels more like the Witcher. You are less enraptured in what your specific character is saying but the focus is on how your group is interacting with the world around you. Both are going to be good (I went all-in on Stormsunder as well).
Definitely helpful! Thanks. I got confirmation that the playmat is stitched and the 3D renders will be up before the pledge manager closes. Do you think you'll do the add-on bundle?
@@m.grumpelstilzkin3143 I have a strong aversion to whatever it is. Gloomhaven turned me off until a friend forced me to play it at least 3 times and then I finally came around. I blame having read too many fantasy books as a kid. Gameplay looks great. Just tired of the setting.
Thanks for the video! I'm already in for Oathsworn. Trying to decide if I should drop by EB pledge for Primal. I already backed Townsfolk Tussle. Do you have a hot take for Townsfolk Tussle vs Primal (core)?
VERY different games. The combat of TT is fairly generic but still enjoyable. It's the boss mechanics and loot that get you going in TT and it's got incredible replay value, but a much shorter campaign. Primal has a much more involved and enjoyable combat loop and a good gear upgrade loop. You already know the difference in theme :) If I had to pick one out of those it'd be Primal for the theme difference if nothing else. The variability in bosses in TT is certainly super nice though!
Clicked, thinking you'd be talking about Oathmark. Then I was like wtf is he talking about and it finally dawned on me oh, wrong game. I had never heard about these 2 games at all...
While I’m getting both games as well, it was still an entertaining video. I’d love to see one with mystic battles pantheon and limbo (in anticipation for ragnarok and limbo 1.5). Idk if it’s worth adding arena in there as well, probably not. Much different scope. But you’ve played it, maybe there’s enough similarities to include that. Got details on Celestial? That would be cool to add too.
I kinda regret missing Oathsworn, but Primal seems super fun to me. And I have so much in depth story games coming that I'm ok missing out on Oathsworn for now. ATO, Arena Tanares and Stomsunder coming this year, Oathsworn would overwhelm me at this point.
Yeah in that regard Primal is really nice just to be able to plop down without a lot of fuss and still get a rewarding boss battle experience out of :)
I cancelled my Primal pledge. I pledged for Oathsworn + Armory + Terrain. I really like the abstracted 4-quadrant board of Primal and I think the overall style & art direction is far superior than Oathsworn. For every other category, I prefer Oathsworn. I’m also not sold on the “battle flow” ststem of Oathsworn. It’s unique. But at the end of the day, it’s card play + dice and I’m not convinced that the uniquness of it is worth the table space. It’s a lot of cards to shift around the player board. I also really appreciate the companion system of Oathsworn. This gives the opportunity for a much more managable solo play system, where I can play a full hero board for my ‘main’ character and use companions fir the rest. And then there is the full narration, which is appreciated. edit: I plan on using cards for the monsters and dice for the players. I think it will be fun to judge the odds when analyzing the cards played, and then chuck all the dice when it’s time to see what happens. edit2: When I say style & art direction, I’m not talking about high fantasy vs. low fantasy. What I mean is, I like the minimalist art design of Primal and somewhat recoil from how busy Oathsworn appears. The”busi-ness” of how everything appears is distracting from the gameplay for me.
That's exactly what I always do, cards for enemies and dice for me. Allows me to roll dice (fun), allows me to not awkwardly roll against myself (not fun) and allows me to experience the slight strategy around choosing to reshuffle the card deck that you miss out on if you only do dice all the time :)
I'm Oathsworn all the way. I almost require a narrative component to my games, otherwise I feel like I'm just doing math and what happens doesn't really matter emotionally. Min/maxing isn't for me; I want that story experience!
Hey King, I’m surprised you didn’t talk at all about component quality in this video. I saw you on FB or the KS comments expressing concerns about the minis manufacturer for Primal (Eastar?). Can you talk some more about that? What games have they done in the past that weren’t so great? How do the Oathsworn minis compare to the ones in Primal?
Then again Eastar also did the mini's for Dark Rituals which are freaking great, really detailed. So it might have more to do with what quality a company is willing to pay for for their game.
Oathsworn is using Panda. They seem good from what I've seen so far but keeping that quality at production levels is key. We'll have to see but I have faith. Primal is/was leaning Eastar. I'm not super concerned about any large monster minis, but would worry about the hunters. They've been improving but seem to have the largest variance in quality - but not sure they're 100% sold on Eastar so a little early to say.
Och.....but their minis....Dragons....Rats....wait what? back to Dragons please!....... But really nice comparison of both games and also actually explaining each of their gamestyles...nice! :) (Also I am still watching you on big TV ಠ_ಠ )
I was going to back Oathsworn but didn't as I have too many narrative big box games so gave it a miss, in fact I am about to stick a load of games into storage soon to save tidy up my shelves, I don't know why but Oathsworn kind of reminds me of Solomon Kane, I haven't played either but when I researched both they gave off similar vibes.
Good question! Oathsworn thanks to those abilities - it makes each character feel more unique so you get a different feel when you have say, a witch in your party versus not. That's on top of the various modes
@@TheKingofAverage In the latest KS update, someone from Shadowborne Games said they did not plan to reopen the late pledge. Maybe they will change their minds but they announced that the game would not be here before October : "It looks like we will need 5 more months to complete the HIPS production, beyond our original May deadline." Quite sad, because many good KS were launched these last 18 months and I just can't get my hands on everything. Choices, choices, choices...
@@aurelienbois2087 they won't reopen. the only thing you can do is hop on someone else's pledge as they are willing to re-open an existing pledge if you want to add more. I went all-in after their last update.
@@bassmeo3937 You lucky one ! Well I guess a second hand version is the best I can hope for. But it's not like there weren't tons of good campaign driven games to play before that could happen.
Who would like Primal? Who would like Oathsworn? Well I backed Oathsworn. I didn't back Primal (although tht was mostly to do with the Darkest Dungeon pledge manager and the Nova Aetas pledge manager).
I don't know if the forthcoming 'Cursed City' from Games Workshop is on your radar at all but in the fullness of time I'd love a Gloomhaven (Frosthaven?) v Cursed City video. I very much enjoyed their Sci-Fi 'Blackstone Fortress' game.
they both look like amazing games! I ended up going with Primal bc Oathsworn feels like DnD (and I'd rather just play DnD) whereas Primal is like an in your face kick ass or get your ass kicked game
Aeon Trespass Odyssey is getting forgotten amongst all these newer boss battler games.. 🤣 I went all-in on Primal in the end all because of the card play reminds me of a Japanese TCG I used to play. All these giant box games, ATO, KDM, Primal, Oathsworn, and then Sankokushin, how would you rate these? (obviously nobody knows about Sankokushin right now so feel free to exclude that)
Not for me! AT:O is still my top pick between them all :) but this was specifically asked many times thanks to both of them offering card based combat :)
Primal for me! I've watched the playthrus for Oathsworn and there is just too much hex counting (even with the playthrus editing it out!), too much move some hexes and roll some dice, and I don't like how planning the card cooldown mechanism pulls you out of the combat. For what I'm looking for, Primal has faster setup, less downtime, and better cardplay.
@@duglaw There first game Human Punishment Social Deduction 2.0 was awesome and the critics of some youtubers I trust are great so I have no worries that this game will be fantastic too 🙂
I got 3 more games recently and in exchange for that I promised my wife in a hard fought verbal battle that I’d sell Oathsworn when it arrived. Currently brainstorming a way to squirm my way out of that silly promise.
@King of average, nice video, but from my point ow view, you left out of the comparison two extremely important factors, miniatures (quantity and quality) and money. In both Oathwsorn is by far advantaging Primal, and Primal only has 6 heroes, whereas Oathsworn has 12. I´m all in for both of them, and Oathsworn I presume I would like it more than Primal, but until I have them in my hands and have played with the full final product, I can´t say for sure. My main concern with primal is finding out if the monsters are really unique and well implemented, it´s very easy to do that with only two, we´ll see with ten times two. Also the hunters don´t have enough character by themselves, it´s the cards that make out how they play. And I wonder if the guy with the hammer would play very similarly to the girl with the bow, when fitted with venom equipment both, for example. All in all, I´m extremely happy to be able to back both, and eager to unbox, paint and play....
They've updated it with some feedback from me about just that so unless it's a recent letsplay she now acts smarter. She used to be driven by a navigation dice but now reacts to say, the nearest person, or the person who hit her, etc.
@@TheKingofAverage Ah, good for all those that backed the game. For me it was too much Story. Littlebit is ok, but I want to play. Thx for the idea with Trudvang, just got 90% of my mony back. Why they took 10 from the Shipping also, is a riddle for me.
@@TheKingofAverage Oh, that is good for all those that backed the game. For me it was too much strory. but thank you for your tip with trudvang. Got 90% back, cause I agreed with you on the game. Without E, Lang it is strange that they changed so much. Just strange that they took 10% also from the shipping :-O
That actually has nothing to do with my distinction here :) Oathsworn is using Panda and while I've been impressed with what they've shown so far, we've never seen what they can do at scale quite yet so still a gray area (though I have hope) :)
Yeah although without the huntevents (roll 1 for TPK because thats fun), streamlined settlementbuilding, less randomized combat (no dice but some luck of the draw), and totally different setting and aesthetic. So less of a baby and more like "inspired by".
Random Question: What do you do with all the empty expansion boxes with beautiful art on it? Throwing them away feels kinda bad but man the space they take 😢
This info makes me feel better about skipping primal and just getting oathsworn. Im interested in minster hunter but time will tell if that's worth the investment. Primal cost too much and i feel it will need an alpha player to direct combat to make the kill. I try to stay away from those games. Want games were people can play their turns on their own and only ask for advise if they need it.
Oathsworn: you can skip the story, or if you're into it there's a whole fantasy novel in there. You just can't describe as a prosumer how amazing the combat will be compared to what's out there (only played the intro scenario), or how much detail is going into this story and world fleshed out over 300k+ words of narrated script. There are something like 50 people working on oathsworn right now and it has a $100 option to get into it. it's really just going to be nuts. it's kind of how I feel about Bloodborne vs Tainted grail right now. Bloodborne 100% is doing everything that tainted grail is doing, in this neat safe way, with simple streamlined gameplay that just works. but I don't feel anything towards it, it doesn't take the time to stick in your heart. It's an experience, it stabs into your brains chemistry and locks in, but in the end it's not the experience of a life time that I keep thinking about and want to share with people.
Oooh interesting thoughts on this for sure! TBH they are all quite incredible game with a myriad of pros and cons to each. Personally I seem them different enough to warrant them both but not everyone has that luxury. Honestly I can't imagine having to pick.
@@TheKingofAverage nooo misunderstood my joke. can you not see the wall of games creeping up behind you - it's going to consume you as your back is to it 🤣
haha don't be! They made it easier since. I died literally first round when I first fought her as the Ursa. Charged in and got STOMPED. I actually suggested they make the first one a bit easier to let us get used it. That was under the old cooldown system though.
Ahh I only tried it back in like September and didn’t try it again after that cause I’m not a fan of dealing with those decks and reshuffling them in the app. It’s a pain. That being said. I didn’t defeat the brood mother until I used the witch to make a wall of fire for the rats to run through. Unless you deal with the little rats your quickly dead. I’m sad that you say they made it easier. I liked it as a challenge actually.
Not when trying to say what Primal is like. Primal is closer to like, World of Warcraft where it's almost cartoony in it's design. LOTR I'd argue is a really high - low fantasy setting. For the most part it's just medieval Europe with a bit of magic. In Primal you can have gigantic gunbows that are on fire which make them deal fire damage. That'd not belong in LOTR at all :D
@@TheKingofAverage High Fantasy doesnt mean "highly fantastic" but "high quality fantasy". I.e. if a fantasy world has it's own mythology, languages and history it's high fantasy and LOTR is the very definition, with having fully functioning languages and basically a middle-earth bible (aka the Silmarillion). Low fantasy is called pulp-fantasy as well and is basically Bikinibabes on Dragons. By those definitions Oathsworn is more in the highfantasy category and primal among the low-fantasy settings. WOW started low-fantasy but has aquired a great ammount of lore in the meantime ... although afaik it still doesnt feature a pantheon / mythology or language it does span a rather big ammount of history by now.
Hm, it seems that i put my money in a game that is too easy.. Is there a way to make Oathsworn harder, a hardcore mode or something? For primal i see a big AP problem in my gaming group. Thanks for the video bro!
Oathsworn is not easy, it's highly strategic. It's just not about to give you a headache from trying to navigate 3 turns ahead :) AP could certainly be a thing! It'd do best in a group with all power players as you can DEFINITELY play inefficiently.
I think that you have your definitions of high vs. low fantasy wrong. High fantasy just means that it is set in a fictional world while low fantasy is set in the real world but with fantasy elements (e.g.: Dresden Files or Harry Potter. So they are actually both high fantasy. I think what you mean to say is that Oathsworn is darker and bleaker in tone and pushes into grimdark Fantasy. Great video though!
While you are correct, I think for board games they have different definition of genre's. Ive noticed many people call Oathsworm as Low Fantasy and Primal as High Fantasy. When based on the definition they would be described both as High Fantasy.
I'm more about the practicality of high vs low, that is the feel you get from one vs the other the vast majority of the time. Since low is set in the "real" world it is by and large often played close to reality. I also don't subscribe to a name mattering too much. Tolkien can call Middle Earth different from our own but we all know it's just Europe with a different name. But you are very correct, the technical definition means FAR less than how I describe it and literally just means earth or not earth which tells us all of nothing :D
@@TheKingofAverage Catan is my favorite worker placement game. I know you're not technically placing workers but to me the term worker placement is more about how a game feels. Absurd isn't it? People who watched your video and didn't know the term High Fantasy or Low Fantasy beforehand now believe that the definition you gave is "the definition". If they then watch a review of a novel or movie where the reviewer uses these terms correctly it might lead to some serious disappointment.
Basically every positive about Oathsworn (apart from the characters feeling more unique) is a negative for me. And I don't get why you said Oathsworn is a better game overall. It seems more luck based, not enough brain burn.
I said like a year ago that I'd click any video with Oathsworn in the title. I'm here to fulfil my promise.
HAH! Always glad to have you here Henry :D
Every single oathsworn video gets a thumbs up from me. No exceptions :)
I think it is worth mentioning the mystery in Oathsworn. I know King of Average looked at the minis but I didn't. I actually won't know what boss I'm facing until it is revealed and that is fun to me.
Oh yes for sure! Even I don't have context for the bosses. While I've fought a few I've not seen the story leading up to all of them.
Can we get many more Oathsworn videos? it is shaping up to be something truly special
Shoot I made so many during it's KS people were asking me to stop lol :D Just wait until it's delivered ;)
I think that Oathsworn is a league of its own
It truly is fantastic!
100%
Both. The answer is I'm getting both because I problem.
Haha well you are among company here :)
I am all in on Oathsworn. I watched several videos on Primal and bounced off of it until about the forth one. Now I can't decide.
You have played both and you commented a lot about random versus deterministic. While I love dice, and exploding dice more, what intrigues me the most about Primal is the monster behavior cards. You know your moves and you know your partner's moves. You know what the monster is going to react to. However, you don't know how exactly it will react and how that chain reaction could be a nothing or a major deal right in the middle of a player's activation. This is the most promising element of Primal to me. This is what has me on the fence. The monsters seem more alive than game-y. It is simultaneous turns, but not in the race mode of Project Elite. It is cinematic and can surprise you and interrupt you in ways that dice (miss, hit, or hit a lot) don't.
To me the most promising element of Primal is this "we go" (monster and player) with mid-turn surprises. Meanwhile, while lacking "narrative", you have players jumping behind rocks or monsters spinning to breath fire on a sneaking player only to have the other player jump in to block it with a shield which enrages the monster. This is all on the same player's turn.
Am I wrong? At first I saw Primal as just another kickstarter looking to sell miniatures. However, now I am seeing the AI and hidden reactions as a pretty cool and defining feature. I will say I worry about how much the player has to track from multiple sources while playing a turn in Primal. It reminds me of the scattered information of Massive Darkness 1. This seems to further fragment and mentally tax the player decision trees (or the chess part of your chess vs checkers).
I have to say that this comparison video was very informative! Keep up the good work!
Really glad to hear it!
The video I was waiting for !
Very informative and interesting.
I have only one issue with your videos... I ended up backing both.
Hah! Well me too so there's that :D
Great video! I love games that present a challenging card puzzle with combos. Mage Knight, Spirit Island, and Slay the Spire are some of my absolute favorite games. The way you describe Primal it looks right up my alley. Thanks!
oh yes 100% then this is something I'd suggest you look into! Building that combo is 95% of this game and a skilled player can accomplish really impressive combos compared to someone only thinking perhaps for that turn only :)
Oathsworn is my most wanted game ever that I couldn’t afford! I fell in love with their components and minis and maps and every bit of story they put out. I hope they are massively successful and maybe I can save for a 2nd edition someday.
I'll share my secret strategy with you... Make a friend who has a kickstarter weakness. :D MWAHAHAHA
I have backed like 6 games since 2013 but I have a friend who backed like 20 games last year. He keeps a spreadsheet just to track of everything. Side benefit - I getta play stuff and try it.
Thank you for this. It further solidified for me that I did the right thing for myself and my kids I going all in on Oathsworn-into-the-deepwood. The fact I can have my kids play a simple character and still be affective really is appealing. Thank you
Since you're playing this with your kids, I figure I'll give you a heads up about the story. The story can be really dark and harsh. I would say that if you're ok with your kids playing, watching, or reading the Witcher games/series then you're probably good to go. If not, be forewarned that Oathsworn is just as harsh and brutal.
100% with you there! My daughter enjoyed the game a lot more with the companion board and she even dealt the killing blow! Made her day and made me happy as I didn't have to manage her moves as well :)
@@anthonynelson8397 does it have sex and language like the Witcher does? Or just darker due to the undead and monsters?
@@ClintK. I haven't played all of the various paths in the story, but I have NOT run across any sex or lude undertones. There are times where you'll see language like damn or hell. It's not frequent, but it has been there a few times. There are more idioms that imply things, but the idioms will go over most children's heads so I wouldn't be concerned about that.
What I mean when I say that it's harsh and dark is that there are times when you might be given an option to execute someone or make morally challenging judgment calls. Having your children a part of that kind of decision-making is what I meant when I said it is dark and harsh. That sense of playing judge, jury, and executioner.
@@anthonynelson8397 very well explained sir thank you for such a detailed response!
Thanks for the excellent content. I'm getting oathsworn, and you reinforced the reasons I am super excited about it. Your description also tells me to stay a mile away from primal. Good deal. Thanks.
That's perfect! Glad I could help build that confidence for ya! You're going to love Oathsworn I am sure :)
Great comparison video. Thanks Michael!
BTW, I'm getting both. :-)
haha that's the spirit! :D
Thanks for the review, it helped a lot to choose which one fits better my taste. Cheers brother!
Happy to help!
In Oathsworn, I actually use the dice as counters when deciding what to roll and possibly upgrade/empower, even if I know that I'll only use cards for that specific attack. I like the tactile feel of fiddling with dice.
Awww yeah the cage match I was waiting for! Thanks King!
You are very welcome!
Hey are you THE Noted? :D
@@TheKingofAverage 😁 yes sir!
Thank you for this direct comparison sort of video! This is my favorite type of video that you do, and I wish more content creators would follow suit. You had an earlier video that convinced me to back Arena: the Contest because you likened the story side to Indiana Jones rather than the ubiquitous grim/dark story campaign games. If another game comes out with lighter adventure like this, please do a compare/contrast with Arena (coop/campaign mode).
Oathsworn has a double sided battle board with a 2nd environment, so that statement is not correct.
Oh shoot you're right! Man forgot all about that - thanks for the clarification!
29:40 Great Big Bang Theory reference, lol
A good comparison thank you. I have backed Oathsworn and planned to get Primeval, however i do think Oathsworn is the game i will prefer overall as it offers a lot more variety and characters with real differences and theme. However the core box of Primeval is definately worth it for one off battles - your video has helped me to resist going all in on Primeval and the reality of getting everything played with both games is so unlikely. I am also in on Stormsunder core box as a result of your channel as it would never have heard of that one otherwise and boy does that game look good too.
I think the card and dice interplay in oathsworn offers more nuance then it appears as I understand you can freely swap between which you use during the game. Since the cards have a set number of modifiers and misses and are of known quantity these can help inform your gaming and your odds when using them. For example if you draw a really bad series of cards one round and miss an attack as a consequence there is a good chance that the next time you use cards you will have a higher chance of success as the remaining cards will be that much better. You can then use this knowledge to save drawing cards (rolling dice instead) until you get that right combo of attacks and then use the cards knowing the odds are in your favor.
I'm all into Oathsworn, cause it sounds realy like a boss battle game with different styles on how to fight the encounter.
It reminds me at boss battles in WoW
Great breakdown KoA. This video served to further deepen my hype for BOTH games and locked in my all-in gameplay pledge on Primal. Completely justified a place in my collection for both. I want to have a large number of different experiences at my fingertips without fully duplicating things. Who has time for that?
That's great to hear! Really glad the video was helpful for ya! :D
Thank you very much for the indepth analysis. How would you compare the boss battles of Aeon Trespass: Odyssey with these two games in terms of complexity and uniqueness? It seems AT:O has some extremely interesting stuff like story progression in battles.
I bought both :D
I backed AT:O and am super excited about it. I changed my Early bird all in on Primal to a $1 pledge. I am more of a story and narrative person and Primal doesn't really seem to have that.
Watching my big narrative versus video from before featuring AT:O with this video in mind should provide that answer pretty well. To summarize: AT:O is still my top pick personally.
I am a collaborator on Oathsworn and ATO and am personally going all-in on both projects, just saying this as I have a biased view on things.
ATO and Oathsworn are very different styles of the same genre of game. It is more appropriate to compare ATO to KDM if you want an apples-to-apples kind of comparison. That being said, I think they will still be compared since they fit into the boss battling genre.
ATO and Oathsworn have very different scopes within the narrative story being told. ATO is telling a grand epic that is reshaping what is happening across the entire populous whereas Oathsworn is following the journey of 4 people/humanoids. Both have a great story but the scale of the story is just different. That being the case, in ATO you care more about what happens to your civilization than you do the individual titans you are controlling (which can and will die). In Oathsworn, your character is vital to the story and you get attached to them.
In ATO your titan's role in combat changes based on what kind of gear loadout you bring. In Oathsworn, your gear is supplemental but your class defines the role you can potentially play in combat.
Both games use valid and satisfying AI systems. I think that you will enjoy both if you like really challenging combat. ATO leans more toward how KDM implemented combat in that there are an AI and a BP deck. Also, ATO doesn't mind killing you and can be rather unforgiving in that regard. Oathsworn is harsh, and at times really hard on you for not making good tactical choices, but it doesn't necessarily implement 1-shot kind of mechanics - doesn't mean you can't get 1-shot, but that isn't the intent.
ATO and Oathsworn are both long games, but ATO will have the edge since the story arcs (Cycles) are just more numerous. Both games will deliver at a bare minimum a solid 60+ hours of gameplay.
All in all, if you really enjoy the style of game mechanics that KDM had then I think you will like ATO more. ATO is the route to go if you want high-stakes world-changing kinds of stories. Oathsworn is the way to go if you want that personal journey to be the area of high-stakes. I love both of these games and they have both been fantastic experiences to be a part of.
@@anthonynelson8397 Thank you for the very extensive answer. That was really helpful.
I’m all in on Oathsworn, Primal did absolutely nothing for me. Between having far worse miniatures (shoutout Eastar) for more money, no real story, and art that doesn’t appeal to me...the choice was easy! I guess that makes me a lucky one!
I’m in the same boat even tho I want to like primal since so many ppl that have played it seem to love it
Hehe i wanted to like it too. I guess its pretty and everybody is hyped. The kickstarter hype is real and restrained myself from backing this to be just a part of it. Full into Oathsworn though!!
Same all in for oathsworn, no interest whatsoever in Primal doesn’t look anywhere near as much fun.
Same got into the hobby late and hopefully TGG fulfills the order. Primal while looks nice from a miniature perspective I don't see the immersion. In addition after seeing what Eastar did with prior minis I'm afraid to back.
Worse is their FOMO and pricing that will increase almost $60 for All-In in the PM.
Me too! In for oathsworn, dont care about primal.
Thanks for this video KoA! It really has affirmed my decision to back Oathsworn and not Primal for all the reasons you mentioned. The weight and thinkiness of Primal looks like something I would personally love because I like mid-heavy weight euros, but nobody else I would potentially play with would like it. I can't drop the amount they want for the all-in if it doesn't tick every single box I need.
That's great! You are in the ideal position I think in KS now. It's hard to realize the difference between what you like and what your group will actually play. Something I still struggle with myself.
I'm all in with Oathsworn but dropped my Primal pledge to $1. I think both look good, but I think Oathsworn seems to have more to offer. I may up my Primal pledge during the pledge manager, but I'll have to see how I feel at that time. Thanks for the comparison!
I late pledged Oathsworn on your recommendation, KoA, and I am happy to say after watching this video!
Btw.. missing the piano music over the disclaimer at the beginning. 😄
I also miss the piano music.
Funny enough I had opposite comments thanking me for changing it :D Can't please everyone sadly :(
THANK YOU for doing this video.
You are quite welcome :)
If you just talked me into oathsworn, how do i get my hands on a copy?
hahah oh no! Um perhaps ask them super nicely? :D
They were kind enough to let me upgrade my pledge a few weeks ago after I asked them nicely
This is a nice video but a strange comparison. :) Like you said Oathsworn is more a narrative game and has more of an adventure game or dungeon crawler like Stormsunder, Middara or other Games of that kind. But Primal is actually more a mechanic focused, abstracted pure fighting game with crafting elements. They are so different that the comparison can only have the purpose to find out they are different. :) I backed Primal because I really like the mechanics and because it has a campaign with short game session that can well be played on a week day and yet has a satisfying building aspect. For the weekends I backed Stormsunder 🤩
This video is 100% made because it was requested so much. I suspect most people just view it as another card based boss battler and were hoping to see if this really stood out or not.
@@TheKingofAverage Yeah, I guess it's actually helpful if people don't inform much about the project. :) Well done anyway :)
Oathsworn all the way! Primal seems like a game I would find repetitive very quickly, a kind of one trick pony. And for that price tag I'm not interested.
Understandable! Glad my video could be helpful for ya! :)
Oathsworn. I was really looking forward to Primal, but their card combo system will easily lead me to some serious analysis paralysis where I won't be able to make a decision because I'm trying to think of the best possible scenario for my party and I.
Mhm yeah Primal could lead to some AP if the person is prone to that and a alpha gamer isn't there to do it for them. It does best with a group of power gamers I feel.
Primal is perfect for my situation. An infant and a toddler makes board games hard to manage right now. Quick set up and minimal fat while focusing on my 13 year old’s preference of combat. Less miniature and components are also better when the toddler jumps the baby gate and makes a mad dash for the components on the table.
oh yeah 100% that's a good fit! You and your son are going to have a blast with it I'm sure :)
What's your favorite high fantasy game where you level a character and progressively get better gear weps/armor i.e. rusty dagger>fine steel>magical wep>legendary fire blazing sword with special affects. From killing monsters and bosses?
For a board game? Massive Darkness. There's actually not too many where the loot comes directly from the enemies - but that one is good fun and neat to see an enemy with a big sword and then you kill the enemy and get the sword :D
@@TheKingofAverage crap I should of gotten there last KS. Thank you
@@TheKingofAverage does that happen in the first one too or just the new KS?
Great video :D thank you
You are very welcome!
Compared to the "roleplaying" and difficulty of Nemesis. which one of those 2 gets closer?
There is a clear winner here and of course is...: Primal the Awakening
Now I would be more than happy to buy someone's pledge on Osthworn as I missed the campaign ;)
hah! What you're doing, I see it :D
Thanks for the video, it was very helpful, as I am getting interested in these two games (I play mostly solo, true solo or two-handed, it makes no difference). Eventually, also given my pledge of Kindoms Forlon, I will do the Primal LP (core+ 5 player expansion), as I now want a very combat focused game.
Do you consider Primal a good choice for solo play?
Just curious, more than a year after the video, are the opinions you expressed in the video still the same?
I'm more story/narrative driven with campaigns, so Oathsworn definitely is it. I like Oathsworns darker theme and setting, as well as the various hunters/heroes. I do like Primal's minis and monsters a little better, but not a fan of primal's system and limited maps, and virtually no story except to upgrade your character, rinse and repeat.
Oh yeah Oathsworn is definitely for you then! It's a *fantastic* game - you're going to love it :)
I do like story but i prefer gameplay and Primal offers that strategic value with nightmare modes and different boss mechanics that provide variety for replayability that i went all in for. Great video
Hey, King. What is your choice between Aeon Trespass and Primal? I know they have even more differences than Oathsworn has with Primal, but I just wanted to know your opinion. Thanks for another great video! Cheers!
AT:O if I were to list them currently strictly from a personal preference.
@@TheKingofAverage Glad I grabbed Aeon too from TGG when I did Oathsworn. Think I may just hold off on Primal, the minis are the main draw for me since we are starting to paint minis but the higher gameplay ceiling and the lack of story narrative might not make it a game we like to play.
Anyway I can still get a copy of Oathsworne?
Not easily no :( Might be able to find it from companies that sell KS games though :)
Do you know how many encounters there are in total in Oathsworn?
Oathsworn I like the gameplay and the setting much more.
21 encounters
@@NacDelSainz That is quite a lot. I wonder how replayable they will be.
Highly with new teams. Playing a game with a witch in the party is a completely new experience almost as they are laying down terrain tokens and doing AOE that can hurt you too, etc.
Here are a few things I would add or point out:
1. You said that you don't fight all of the bosses in both games. This isn't true. In Oathsworn, you fight all of the bosses, no way around this. If you tell me what chapter you're on, I know what boss you're going to fight. The story of how you get there will be potentially very different than my method, but it's the same boss.
2. In Oathsworn, you'll have 21-22 sessions. When I say a session I mean story+combat.
3. Terrain: In Oathsworn, you'll find that it is pretty bog-standard the first few battles...but that quickly changes. Can't say much about this due to NDAs, but the terrain will matter =)
4. Equipment: In Oathsworn, there isn't crafting, but there will still be hard choices for your equipment. Oathsworn also has a large number of unique items that you can acquire each fight. You've got to remember that you have equipment attrition in Oathsworn so your equipment constantly changes as you play because it must.
5. Oathsworn story: if you loved the first few chapter's story...oh my goodness, just wait. This game's story is incredible. Easily could be a TV series like the Witcher.
I am all-in on both Primal and Oathsworn because I think they are different enough that they will appeal to two different sets of players in my group. For those who just want a quick boss fight that they can play and have fun with that evening, I will pull our Primal OR Townsfolk Tussle. If my group wants to have a deeper story that accompanies the boss fights and they can see how they are making a difference in the game world then I'll bring out Oathsworn or Aeon Trespass. Oathsworn and ATO will shine best with a consistent group who can experience the game together (or solo play). I think Primal and Townsfolk Tussle will be the better option for 1-shot game night sessions.
Thanks for the info! I was under the impression that you might miss a few boss fights in Oathsworn, but that was perhaps old news, thanks for the clarification!
I didn't mean that the terrain doesn't matter, apologies if it came across that way, and certainly didn't want to spoil anything and also opted to consider the witch's tiles as not terrain but still compared to Oathsworn I've not played a single game where terrain mattered as much as it does there. Including Oathsworn. It's not pointless, but it's not as make or break every single turn as Primal was.
The story of Oathsworn I know the least about (and am fine with that) - I've mostly just played the battles :D But even from what I saw it's one of the best narratives out there IMO. Not sure it'll beat Stormsunder thanks to the characters in Stormsunder actually having personalities, but it's up there for sure!
@@TheKingofAverage There are maybe 30% of the fights in Oathsworn where the terrain IS going to make the fight wildly different, certainly not all of the fights, but as I mentioned...things ramp up in intensity haha.
Stormsunder has more of an RPG feel to it, kind of like Midarra. Oathsworn feels more like the Witcher. You are less enraptured in what your specific character is saying but the focus is on how your group is interacting with the world around you. Both are going to be good (I went all-in on Stormsunder as well).
Definitely helpful! Thanks. I got confirmation that the playmat is stitched and the 3D renders will be up before the pledge manager closes. Do you think you'll do the add-on bundle?
I'll have to decide in the PM. For now I'm fine where I'm at :)
It's tough. Oathsworn looks great but I'm really not big on high fantasy. Definitely more interested in Primal, obviously not having played either
Not sure I understand you, Oathsworn is not high fantasy, Primal is. 8:40
@@m.grumpelstilzkin3143 I have a strong aversion to whatever it is. Gloomhaven turned me off until a friend forced me to play it at least 3 times and then I finally came around. I blame having read too many fantasy books as a kid. Gameplay looks great. Just tired of the setting.
I went Oathsworn due to its promising solo mode. Really hope they can deliver on the new planned date without cutting any corners.
Oathsworn 100% for solo play - it works really well!
Thanks for the video! I'm already in for Oathsworn. Trying to decide if I should drop by EB pledge for Primal.
I already backed Townsfolk Tussle. Do you have a hot take for Townsfolk Tussle vs Primal (core)?
VERY different games. The combat of TT is fairly generic but still enjoyable. It's the boss mechanics and loot that get you going in TT and it's got incredible replay value, but a much shorter campaign.
Primal has a much more involved and enjoyable combat loop and a good gear upgrade loop. You already know the difference in theme :)
If I had to pick one out of those it'd be Primal for the theme difference if nothing else.
The variability in bosses in TT is certainly super nice though!
@@TheKingofAverage Thank you for the comparison! It does sound like they are different enough to own both, but I'm not sure my wallet can handle it :D
I prefer to know why exactly we have to slain those red book rare beasts. Oathsworn does it just great.
Can you please do this video again once you have a few games of Primal the Awakening under your belt. Thanks @TheKingOfAverage
This video was helpful.
Really glad to hear that! :)
And how does Aeon Trespass: Odyssey compare ? Moot question as I've already pledged for two of them ;-)
Clicked, thinking you'd be talking about Oathmark. Then I was like wtf is he talking about and it finally dawned on me oh, wrong game. I had never heard about these 2 games at all...
Hah! Close but not quite :D
While I’m getting both games as well, it was still an entertaining video. I’d love to see one with mystic battles pantheon and limbo (in anticipation for ragnarok and limbo 1.5). Idk if it’s worth adding arena in there as well, probably not. Much different scope. But you’ve played it, maybe there’s enough similarities to include that. Got details on Celestial? That would be cool to add too.
I kinda regret missing Oathsworn, but Primal seems super fun to me. And I have so much in depth story games coming that I'm ok missing out on Oathsworn for now. ATO, Arena Tanares and Stomsunder coming this year, Oathsworn would overwhelm me at this point.
Yeah in that regard Primal is really nice just to be able to plop down without a lot of fuss and still get a rewarding boss battle experience out of :)
Hey King. Dont worry too much about the checkers chess comment. Both have an option for a KING in them. You are covered either way.
haha true! :D
Thanks for the comparison. Love these cage matches and haven't seem them in a while! On another note, my wallet.. :'(
You are quite welcome!
I cancelled my Primal pledge. I pledged for Oathsworn + Armory + Terrain.
I really like the abstracted 4-quadrant board of Primal and I think the overall style & art direction is far superior than Oathsworn. For every other category, I prefer Oathsworn. I’m also not sold on the “battle flow” ststem of Oathsworn. It’s unique. But at the end of the day, it’s card play + dice and I’m not convinced that the uniquness of it is worth the table space. It’s a lot of cards to shift around the player board.
I also really appreciate the companion system of Oathsworn. This gives the opportunity for a much more managable solo play system, where I can play a full hero board for my ‘main’ character and use companions fir the rest. And then there is the full narration, which is appreciated.
edit: I plan on using cards for the monsters and dice for the players. I think it will be fun to judge the odds when analyzing the cards played, and then chuck all the dice when it’s time to see what happens.
edit2: When I say style & art direction, I’m not talking about high fantasy vs. low fantasy. What I mean is, I like the minimalist art design of Primal and somewhat recoil from how busy Oathsworn appears. The”busi-ness” of how everything appears is distracting from the gameplay for me.
That's exactly what I always do, cards for enemies and dice for me. Allows me to roll dice (fun), allows me to not awkwardly roll against myself (not fun) and allows me to experience the slight strategy around choosing to reshuffle the card deck that you miss out on if you only do dice all the time :)
I'm Oathsworn all the way. I almost require a narrative component to my games, otherwise I feel like I'm just doing math and what happens doesn't really matter emotionally. Min/maxing isn't for me; I want that story experience!
Oathsworn 100% for you then for sure!
I bought both og them... I Love fighting big Monsters... but never played either of these yet :D
Both great games so you should have a lot of fun there :D
Hey King, I’m surprised you didn’t talk at all about component quality in this video. I saw you on FB or the KS comments expressing concerns about the minis manufacturer for Primal (Eastar?). Can you talk some more about that? What games have they done in the past that weren’t so great? How do the Oathsworn minis compare to the ones in Primal?
You can watch his video from yesterday about kickstarter updates. He has a section of the video he explains why with examples.
@@Renegade_KT ah sweet thanks, l’ll do that..would still love to hear the comparison between the two as well, King!
Then again Eastar also did the mini's for Dark Rituals which are freaking great, really detailed. So it might have more to do with what quality a company is willing to pay for for their game.
Oathsworn is using Panda. They seem good from what I've seen so far but keeping that quality at production levels is key. We'll have to see but I have faith.
Primal is/was leaning Eastar. I'm not super concerned about any large monster minis, but would worry about the hunters. They've been improving but seem to have the largest variance in quality - but not sure they're 100% sold on Eastar so a little early to say.
Och.....but their minis....Dragons....Rats....wait what? back to Dragons please!....... But really nice comparison of both games and also actually explaining each of their gamestyles...nice! :) (Also I am still watching you on big TV ಠ_ಠ )
hahahaha oh no this is nothing but my face - your poor TV! Quick! Watch some hollywood stars or something. :D
I was going to back Oathsworn but didn't as I have too many narrative big box games so gave it a miss, in fact I am about to stick a load of games into storage soon to save tidy up my shelves, I don't know why but Oathsworn kind of reminds me of Solomon Kane, I haven't played either but when I researched both they gave off similar vibes.
hello, which one has the best replay-ability you think?
Good question! Oathsworn thanks to those abilities - it makes each character feel more unique so you get a different feel when you have say, a witch in your party versus not. That's on top of the various modes
@@TheKingofAverage thanks a lot, i feel I would choose Oathworn, i would love to try, let's hope one of my friend ordered it :D
Problem is : late pledge is closed for Oathsworn so it's gonna be hard to get it in a near future.
Yeah very true! Hopefully we see it pop up again though :)
@@TheKingofAverage In the latest KS update, someone from Shadowborne Games said they did not plan to reopen the late pledge. Maybe they will change their minds but they announced that the game would not be here before October : "It looks like we will need 5 more months to complete the HIPS production, beyond our original May deadline." Quite sad, because many good KS were launched these last 18 months and I just can't get my hands on everything. Choices, choices, choices...
@@aurelienbois2087 they won't reopen. the only thing you can do is hop on someone else's pledge as they are willing to re-open an existing pledge if you want to add more. I went all-in after their last update.
@@bassmeo3937 You lucky one ! Well I guess a second hand version is the best I can hope for. But it's not like there weren't tons of good campaign driven games to play before that could happen.
Who would like Primal?
Who would like Oathsworn?
Well I backed Oathsworn. I didn't back Primal (although tht was mostly to do with the Darkest Dungeon pledge manager and the Nova Aetas pledge manager).
I don't know if the forthcoming 'Cursed City' from Games Workshop is on your radar at all but in the fullness of time I'd love a Gloomhaven (Frosthaven?) v Cursed City video. I very much enjoyed their Sci-Fi 'Blackstone Fortress' game.
Primal having a short rulebook??? The current draw on Kickstarter has 40 pages... and a separate campaign rulebook... thats not short?
Who said anything about the length of a rulebook?
@@TheKingofAverage The bearded guy at the 25:40 minute mark
I am more interested in a Sankowatchmacallit comparison to be honest, I already ate the Oathsworn cake and opened the Primal packaging.
Gahah :P
they both look like amazing games! I ended up going with Primal bc Oathsworn feels like DnD (and I'd rather just play DnD) whereas Primal is like an in your face kick ass or get your ass kicked game
Aeon Trespass Odyssey is getting forgotten amongst all these newer boss battler games.. 🤣
I went all-in on Primal in the end all because of the card play reminds me of a Japanese TCG I used to play.
All these giant box games, ATO, KDM, Primal, Oathsworn, and then Sankokushin, how would you rate these?
(obviously nobody knows about Sankokushin right now so feel free to exclude that)
Not for me! AT:O is still my top pick between them all :)
but this was specifically asked many times thanks to both of them offering card based combat :)
Im getting both. And sankokushin. And monster hunter world. *sigh* I might have a problem...
Hey man right there with ya!
I see your problem and raise you an addiction....
You got me pumped for Oathsworn as well, but now it seems like they aren't taking any late pledges still :/
Yeah sadly it's closed for now. I hope it pops up again sooner rather than later though!
Primal for me! I've watched the playthrus for Oathsworn and there is just too much hex counting (even with the playthrus editing it out!), too much move some hexes and roll some dice, and I don't like how planning the card cooldown mechanism pulls you out of the combat. For what I'm looking for, Primal has faster setup, less downtime, and better cardplay.
Hey KoA, I know that maybe is not your type of game, but I would like to have your opinion on Human punishment The Beginning Kickstarter. :-)
lack of gameplay videos worries me there.
@@duglaw There first game Human Punishment Social Deduction 2.0 was awesome and the critics of some youtubers I trust are great so I have no worries that this game will be fantastic too 🙂
I got 3 more games recently and in exchange for that I promised my wife in a hard fought verbal battle that I’d sell Oathsworn when it arrived. Currently brainstorming a way to squirm my way out of that silly promise.
Sell 3 others and keep Oathsworn? :D
@@TheKingofAverage that depends. What were the three games?
@King of average, nice video, but from my point ow view, you left out of the comparison two extremely important factors, miniatures (quantity and quality) and money. In both Oathwsorn is by far advantaging Primal, and Primal only has 6 heroes, whereas Oathsworn has 12. I´m all in for both of them, and Oathsworn I presume I would like it more than Primal, but until I have them in my hands and have played with the full final product, I can´t say for sure. My main concern with primal is finding out if the monsters are really unique and well implemented, it´s very easy to do that with only two, we´ll see with ten times two. Also the hunters don´t have enough character by themselves, it´s the cards that make out how they play. And I wonder if the guy with the hammer would play very similarly to the girl with the bow, when fitted with venom equipment both, for example. All in all, I´m extremely happy to be able to back both, and eager to unbox, paint and play....
I am very worried about the AI in Oathsworn. The rat was doing a couple times something stipid in one letsplay. we'll see
They've updated it with some feedback from me about just that so unless it's a recent letsplay she now acts smarter.
She used to be driven by a navigation dice but now reacts to say, the nearest person, or the person who hit her, etc.
@@TheKingofAverage Ah, good for all those that backed the game. For me it was too much Story. Littlebit is ok, but I want to play.
Thx for the idea with Trudvang, just got 90% of my mony back.
Why they took 10 from the Shipping also, is a riddle for me.
@@TheKingofAverage Oh, that is good for all those that backed the game. For me it was too much strory.
but thank you for your tip with trudvang. Got 90% back, cause I agreed with you on the game. Without E, Lang it is strange that they changed so much.
Just strange that they took 10% also from the shipping :-O
Except does Oathsworn not win cause I believe they are not using estar for there minis and primal is
That actually has nothing to do with my distinction here :) Oathsworn is using Panda and while I've been impressed with what they've shown so far, we've never seen what they can do at scale quite yet so still a gray area (though I have hope) :)
so basically what I learned is that primal is the baby of kingdom death :)
Yeah although without the huntevents (roll 1 for TPK because thats fun), streamlined settlementbuilding, less randomized combat (no dice but some luck of the draw), and totally different setting and aesthetic. So less of a baby and more like "inspired by".
I need to have both of them... shame on me🤷♂️
Hey I'm right there with ya! :D
Nice
Random Question: What do you do with all the empty expansion boxes with beautiful art on it? Throwing them away feels kinda bad but man the space they take 😢
Good question! They go up in my attic :D
Flattening and throwing away extra expansion boxes is tough at first, but gets easier after the 5th one or so.
This info makes me feel better about skipping primal and just getting oathsworn. Im interested in minster hunter but time will tell if that's worth the investment. Primal cost too much and i feel it will need an alpha player to direct combat to make the kill. I try to stay away from those games. Want games were people can play their turns on their own and only ask for advise if they need it.
Also think oathsworn offers more of a game and better bang for buck.
Between the two, Primal sounds like the better overall game. However no dice pretty much makes it a no go anyway.
Yeah that's why I tried to list a lot of things. My wife is the same way, no dice = unlikely to enjoy.
Oathsworn: you can skip the story, or if you're into it there's a whole fantasy novel in there. You just can't describe as a prosumer how amazing the combat will be compared to what's out there (only played the intro scenario), or how much detail is going into this story and world fleshed out over 300k+ words of narrated script.
There are something like 50 people working on oathsworn right now and it has a $100 option to get into it. it's really just going to be nuts.
it's kind of how I feel about Bloodborne vs Tainted grail right now. Bloodborne 100% is doing everything that tainted grail is doing, in this neat safe way, with simple streamlined gameplay that just works. but I don't feel anything towards it, it doesn't take the time to stick in your heart. It's an experience, it stabs into your brains chemistry and locks in, but in the end it's not the experience of a life time that I keep thinking about and want to share with people.
Oooh interesting thoughts on this for sure! TBH they are all quite incredible game with a myriad of pros and cons to each. Personally I seem them different enough to warrant them both but not everyone has that luxury. Honestly I can't imagine having to pick.
Primal or Oathsworn? I don’t understand... 🤔 Surely, you meant Primal AND Oathsworn 😉 I’m getting both, no discussion 💪😂
hey man I'm right there with ya! They are very different games :)
The games glacier is getting bigger and creeping towards you 😳
Strange to see it getting bigger over time
Are you calling me the Titanic because of my weight? :D You big meanie! :P
@@TheKingofAverage nooo misunderstood my joke. can you not see the wall of games creeping up behind you - it's going to consume you as your back is to it 🤣
Gahaha yeah soon I'll just be a head peeking out from boxes :)
In all seriousness, selling my old office couch to make room forote shelves
Now I am embarrassed for losing to the broom mother the first 2 times I fought her in beta testing of oathsworn.
haha don't be! They made it easier since. I died literally first round when I first fought her as the Ursa. Charged in and got STOMPED. I actually suggested they make the first one a bit easier to let us get used it. That was under the old cooldown system though.
Ahh I only tried it back in like September and didn’t try it again after that cause I’m not a fan of dealing with those decks and reshuffling them in the app. It’s a pain.
That being said. I didn’t defeat the brood mother until I used the witch to make a wall of fire for the rats to run through.
Unless you deal with the little rats your quickly dead.
I’m sad that you say they made it easier. I liked it as a challenge actually.
I'd say, 'The Lord of the Rings' would be a better example of High Fantasy, no?
Not when trying to say what Primal is like. Primal is closer to like, World of Warcraft where it's almost cartoony in it's design. LOTR I'd argue is a really high - low fantasy setting. For the most part it's just medieval Europe with a bit of magic.
In Primal you can have gigantic gunbows that are on fire which make them deal fire damage. That'd not belong in LOTR at all :D
@@TheKingofAverage you should check the Wiki definitions of high/low fantasy, King. 😉
@@TheKingofAverage High Fantasy doesnt mean "highly fantastic" but "high quality fantasy". I.e. if a fantasy world has it's own mythology, languages and history it's high fantasy and LOTR is the very definition, with having fully functioning languages and basically a middle-earth bible (aka the Silmarillion). Low fantasy is called pulp-fantasy as well and is basically Bikinibabes on Dragons. By those definitions Oathsworn is more in the highfantasy category and primal among the low-fantasy settings. WOW started low-fantasy but has aquired a great ammount of lore in the meantime ... although afaik it still doesnt feature a pantheon / mythology or language it does span a rather big ammount of history by now.
You should have a trip to ikea and get a couple more shelves man..
HAH! Yeah working on it :D
Hm, it seems that i put my money in a game that is too easy.. Is there a way to make Oathsworn harder, a hardcore mode or something?
For primal i see a big AP problem in my gaming group.
Thanks for the video bro!
Oathsworn is not easy, it's highly strategic. It's just not about to give you a headache from trying to navigate 3 turns ahead :)
AP could certainly be a thing! It'd do best in a group with all power players as you can DEFINITELY play inefficiently.
Oathsworn all the way.
anyone selling oathsworn in EU?
"My personal pick" better be both :
oh I already said I'm getting both ;)
I think that you have your definitions of high vs. low fantasy wrong. High fantasy just means that it is set in a fictional world while low fantasy is set in the real world but with fantasy elements (e.g.: Dresden Files or Harry Potter. So they are actually both high fantasy. I think what you mean to say is that Oathsworn is darker and bleaker in tone and pushes into grimdark Fantasy.
Great video though!
While you are correct, I think for board games they have different definition of genre's. Ive noticed many people call Oathsworm as Low Fantasy and Primal as High Fantasy. When based on the definition they would be described both as High Fantasy.
I'm more about the practicality of high vs low, that is the feel you get from one vs the other the vast majority of the time.
Since low is set in the "real" world it is by and large often played close to reality. I also don't subscribe to a name mattering too much. Tolkien can call Middle Earth different from our own but we all know it's just Europe with a different name.
But you are very correct, the technical definition means FAR less than how I describe it and literally just means earth or not earth which tells us all of nothing :D
@@TheKingofAverage Catan is my favorite worker placement game. I know you're not technically placing workers but to me the term worker placement is more about how a game feels.
Absurd isn't it? People who watched your video and didn't know the term High Fantasy or Low Fantasy beforehand now believe that the definition you gave is "the definition". If they then watch a review of a novel or movie where the reviewer uses these terms correctly it might lead to some serious disappointment.
Basically every positive about Oathsworn (apart from the characters feeling more unique) is a negative for me. And I don't get why you said Oathsworn is a better game overall. It seems more luck based, not enough brain burn.
That's fair, I am happy you are thinking for yourself! I offer only my own opinion of course, which you can use to decide what's best for you :)
@@TheKingofAverage That's what I meant. You did such a great job that I could tell Oathsworn wasn't for me. Keep up the good work!
Is that Epic Seven!? when do we get a review? I am 100% Oathsworn here, Primal is not that enticing for me
Not from that box. I was told to hold off as it's not super playable from what's in that box.
@@TheKingofAverage count on my view and like :) still waiting on a video for Star of Akarios!!
Primal is cave punk!