Stormsunder: Heirs of Ruin Preview Review!
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Lazy Squire Games is coming out swinging with Stormsunder: Heirs of Ruin on Kickstarter. A game of epic proportions combing Vampires, Egyptian mythology, demons and angels to set a world canvas ripe for it's story driven narrative gameplay.
But how is that gameplay? Beautiful miniatures, great art and a solid foundation can only get you to the moment where you have to execute the gameplay. THAT'S what I'm here to discuss.
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Really wish they would offer a standee version for this game. Looks interesting but the price is quite high.. Plus I'm kinda getting fed up having boxes and boxes uf stuff for 1 game
Yeah there are certainly pros and cons to it all. Pros is a slightly cheaper price (though $1.50 per mini is great when you consider all the cards and such you also get), but that actually drives up the cost of the minis version as the cost is set across fewer copies then so it's a toss up.
At the end of the day this is just a really big game O.O
A standee version would be nice indeed!
Dawn of Madness did exactly that : a standee only version of all expansions.
@Transcendence Zen I do that. I am 10% interested in the game and 90% in the minis. And 1,50 per mini is crazy cheap for minis.
Yeah I like standee version too. Is for this I back Frosthaven
Popcorn ready. Kids in bed. Let's start with an epic review
Perfect - enjoy! :)
@@TheKingofAverage hmmmm damn I think I will be (all) in
Looks like fun and right up my alley but with Arena The Contest & Adventures, Sword & Sorcery, Middara, Reichbusters and my D&D games, i think I have enough dungeon crawlers to keep my group busy for several years so will be a pass for me
Stay strong! I think I reached my capacity for story driven board games about 4 games ago and yet here I am lol :D
Same.
Review starts at 15:55
Hey guys I hope you liked the video! There was an insane amount of hustle to got through the whole demo and then put this video together in such a short time but if it helps you guys then it's worth it :)
One item the fell through the cracks and I missed saying in my review: The numbered tokens that go on the enemies is a bit fiddily. It's not terrible and is no different that most dungeon crawlers that have you place health tokens on the mini itself, but if it could be replaced with some colored rubber bands/colored plastic/whatever that'd be great!
Let me know if you guys have any more questions!
Good if they have dials like dark souls
Thank you for the review! The overview part was a bit disjointed for me, I was a bit lost but stuck by it cause I knew your review was coming. Anyways, I love Gloomhaven but man is the numbering fiddly. I do not wish the mechanic to go away, making monsters unique is a cool thing, but the implementation of identifying each enemy figure in a unique number needs to be better, I hope Stormsunder comes up with a better solution than these tokens.
Haha yeah that's not something I normally do, but usually there's a lot more coverage than just mine so I leave it to others to do a better job explaining mechanics :D
Glad you stuck with it and completely agree! I'd think colored rubber discs would work. Worst case scenario, colored plastic would.
How is this compared to Arena?
Really nice review, very enthusiastic! I am very decided to back this game. For less, the game but maybe one expansion and later the other one at retailer.
Do you know if there will be a upgrade to resolve the issues that you talk about in the final version?
Thanks for another great work. But, let me say, I do prefer the recent camera views where you also appear with the game.
Watched this 3 times fully through in the last 6 months, need more coverage of this game :)
I might just pledge $200-300 now and the rest once the pledge manager opens. But I want it all. I have tons of epic games coming.
Aeon Trespass, Middara Act 2/3, Oathsworn, Etherfields, Zombicide 2, Tainted Grail (opted for one wave), The Isofarian Guard... probably forgot some.
After that I'm unsubscribing, you're just tempting me to waste more money :)
HAHA I understand :D If it makes you feel any better I'm in the exact same boat as you! :D We're going to have some amazing story games for years to come :)
I won't back it due to the costs involved, but I'll watch it anyway, in worst case scenario I'll regret it and back that game in the end
It's a dangerous thing to watch a KS video you just aren't backing because of price :D
Hey King! Would you mind answering a few questions based on your experience with the prototype?
-Did the combat gameplay remind you of any game (in terms of flow)?
-What was approximately the time it took to go through CYOA adventure?
-Was it easy to find places to 'save' (to tear down and remember where you are and what you're doing)?
How did saving progress work?
-How many players did you play with? Did it feel like you really have to work together to win combat or was it enough that each player does their thing and occasionally helps someone?
-Did the characters personality come into play at all? I like the idea in theory, but it sounds like it might not be the easiest thing to implement...
Thanks in advance!
I need to know this vs arena contest before ks finished!
Will make that video soon :)
I'm curious too. It looks better than Tanares/Arena. Better sculpts, more enemies, better tiles, better artstyle, looks like maybe better combat. However it doesn't look as good to me for combat, art and theme as say Conan, Sword & Sorcery or Village Attacks.
Im also not a fan of the humor shown. Still it looks good enough to check out when the KS launches.
@@sethpeterson8261had to admit I was giggling along with the humor…
My feeling is that arena is better bang for your buck. You can get all the gameplay for less, and I can say that the base game is a lot of fun, with a good campaign (and pvp mode). It also is more forgiving from my perspective.
Also it is certainly faster in combat.
So if you like a heavier game this looks to be heavier.
@@HungryGamerReviews thanks for the reply
Very interested in your comparison between the story driven games!
I backed Tainted Grail, Oathsworn, and Aeon Trespass: Odyssey.
I have a pledge in for Arena the contest but not sure if I am in over my head already :p
This game is advertising 300h of campaign play!! That's wild and somewhat anxiety inducing!
Haha yeah right there with ya. I've already backed more campaign games than I'll ever finish and I keep on going :D Ideally 1 ends up a clear winner and I play it all the way through :D
Hey KoA, this must have been a monster to learn and play plus the resulting video was just as epic! Thanks for all of your hard work!
It's my pleasure as always - really glad I was able to push these out!
Thank you for this awesome review! It looks a great game. I've backed Etherfields and I will back Oathsworn. I'm thinking in maybe back Arena or this one, or neither. For now I've backed Arena with $5 to make my decision latter. I'll do the same for this one. I don't like Middara theme. Anyway...you're a great comunicator and an amazing person. Only someone that have such a passion for the hobby and for this community could do a detailed review like that!
Man thanks Miguel as always for the kind words :) Really appreciate it! Stayed up until 4am to get this out to you guys today so it means a lot knowing it's appreciated :)
I'll be doing a comparison video in the future here for you guys that'll hopefully be helpful. Also smart move on using those PM's!
Between this and the preoder for Middara, which should I get?
the only downside to this game I see right now is that its coming in 2022 and I can't wait
Haha yeah stupid realistic estimated delivery dates! :D I want more now! It's harder once you've played a tiny bit of it trust me :D
Great review! Really, we can see the time/care you put into your work - and hats-off on your comprehensive comment answering. I’m tempted on this one, but after going all-in on Arena/Tanares - I’ve got to pace myself! Wish this one would offer a minis-only pledge!
Thank you very much, it's very nice to hear that it's appreciated and helpful :) Makes all the effort worth it :D
As for minis only, without stretch goals isn't in like $1.5 a mini already? Not too bad at all! But I get what you mean :) On the one hand I always want to preach for a realistic approach to these big narrative games...but on the other I'm just not positive which one will "stick" and be the one we play all the way through.
I feel however that with the 2 year outlook on this one that gives me enough time to hopefully finish a few that are here or close to being here (one can dream can't they?)
The King of Average - I still haven’t found posted pricing...what’s the all-in support price?
I've backed the core game for now, and I'm usually backing All-In if I'm going to back any game. The reason being that I hear this company still hasn't delivered the first game (Wild Assent) they created. How reliable is this company? I'm eager to upgrade it to a trilogy all-in when I see the green light of it being trustworthy.
From what I've heard, they are close to finishing the production. You can always read the updates on Wild Assent. They haven't delivered, but the project is near completion.
Honestly, Awaken Realms still hasn't delivered all Nemesis pledges and they have since then started and finished Tainted Grail, Etherfields and The Great Wall kickstarters. I know people trust them, but hey, sometimes you just have to take the leap of faith with new companies.
Middara was 5 years late from a new company that didn't deliver anything before and look at how much it raised in their reprint. It's also rated 8.7/10 on BGG. 0.1 point less than Gloomhaven which is arguably one of the most popular board games ever.
Also, minis and art are largely done for the core box at least (which will be delivered in mid-2021, the rest in mid-2022). It's a huge project, expect delays (I hope not 5 years delay, lol), but I think I'm going All-In. This looks epic as fuck.
@@BalkanBiker I caved in at the last 90 minutes and changed to All-In so I don't have to think about it anymore lol.
I'm sitting on Aeon Trespass, Etherfields, Middara, and Vampire Masquerade Chapters, everything all-in, so I know what you meant by taking a leap of faith. It's just that I have been scammed on KS before with at least 400% funded project, but the creator just goes off and scam more people on Indiegogo. I've been extra careful with new companies that has not much of a history.
The damage Chart looks like from D&D only that it starts at 6, not at 10. every 2 you get 1 Dmg more, or did I miss something?
Sorry for so many spam
Ah yeah that works. TBH I didn't try and figure it out, just referenced it during setup :)
Math for BD could be 6 is default, so 0. Everything below is -1 and everthing above ist 1 additional BD for ever 2 Points above 6.
So if [Stat >= 6] then [roundDOWN(Stats-6)/2 = BD] else [ BD = -1]
I've now played it several more times and am certainly starting to get just "know" what number it is, especially because I only verify the first and then just base the others around that one.
BTW, lovely pseudo code there :D Thankfully we didn't need a switch statement! :D
Game looks inetresting but the scope and costs are to high IMO. Expecially for a a small company without any real track record yet
Eh I could have said the same for Mythic Games charging over $1,000 for an all-in to Joan of Arc. Mythic still to this day isn't quite done fully delivering any of their games (though JoA is almost finished).
But it turned out great and I love the game along with many others :)
Might be some hiccups, might be late, but nothing here makes me believe you'd never get the game and if they can make the demo fun, I imagine they can make the rest of it fun too :)
We all have different thresholds of course, but I'd personally never steer you guys toward something that I thought was sketchy :)
@@TheKingofAverage do we already have an idea of what the all-in price will be on Stormsunder?
@@sethpeterson8261 i believed its US$449 for all three "chapters"
Great review! This one looks and sounds great, but I'm concerned about the price, and if they will be able to deliver. Where are they with Wild Assent? Also, how will the outbreak continue to effect the production and delivery of so many games already in the cue?
There is nothing I've seen to have me believe you won't get your game. Delays? Yeah along with the rest of the industry. At this point my copy of Starcadia Quest from CMON is 7 months late and still no shipping label. My copy of Forbidden Fortress was 1.5 years late.
I'd never steer you guys toward something I wasn't comfortable recommending :)
As for Wild Assent - they are not going with Archon as a manufacturer again and I promise that will help. Archon is notoriously slow at manufacturing. Great minis though! :D
As for the delay from the virus, it really depends on where they were in production and how close they were to getting in there. Obviously anything that was in production is delayed, but the factories will now be behind schedule so will take time to catch up as well, so stuff set to manufacture afterward will also be delayed.
Another great video. If you had to choose, would you pick this game or Arena + Tanares?
I can answer but it'll be quite personal to me:
I'd pick Stormsunder. Reason: My wife likes it more and she's my main gaming partner. My group loved Arena but she did not so that puts it behind.
Now outside of my own personal circumstance, here's my always go to: go core box on multiple games before going all-in on one. Also remember there are late pledges available for months and months afterward. Another important point: will you ever play PvP in Arena? That's something it offers that SS does not.
I'll be doing a video on this soon :)
@@TheKingofAverage Ok, your wife likes stormsunder, and your group likes Arena. And you? Which one do you like, stormsunder or Arena?
@@rosariosottile8616 Arena, he likes Arena. But I don't like it, so he only gets to play it with his friend. It's a snore fest. Falling asleep thinking about it.
@@rosariosottile8616 I like both! They certainly serve different purposes for me. Arena is much more a puzzle/thinking strategic game whereas Stomsunder is that more traditional fun dungeon crawler but with a really good story element to it.
So really depends on what you want it if it:)
@@TheKingofAverage 🥱😴
56:17 I noticed I say “some junk like that” after discovering your videos and watching some backlogs lol
Very informative preview review! When playing solo you need to fully control all 4 characters? Wasnt it a bit too much?
Yes you have to control all 4. Controlling them isn't an issue as the turn AP system is pretty straightforward, however being able to see all 4 player areas means you have them typically stacked in front of you and then the game board above them so you're a bit farther away than when only playing 2 or 1 hero.
@@TheKingofAverage Can you suggest them to do a solo friendly version like in Middara or Oathsworn? I know they are listening to you more than me suggesting on the comments page :) Solo friendliness is very important I think.
What do you think is the better game stormsunder or chronicles of drunagor. I have to make a decision 😁
Thx for this Video. Good overview.
To Combat, could you compare to other Games?
What you think of the Downtime: Like Tainted Grail or more like massive Darknes?
Dice Rollimng: What do you say if you compare this game to S6S, MD or maybe even Descent?
For everybody Else. Kickstarter started just now!
One other Question, I read that you always need to play 4 Chars. maybe I missed it, but how is it to play 2 Chars? I think it will destroy the roleplay for the Char. Or do I missunderstand and you can perfectly play with 2 Chars?
It looks interesting but how would it compare to something like Middara?
Looking forward to your narrative game comparison
I'm looking forward to your comparison video. I backed Oathsworn, and am backing Arena/Tanares. I don't really have the time for a lot of long, heavy campaign games (especially if I play with others, likely I'll end up doing them solo) but this one looks like something special. May end up selling some to focus on one.
It's a lot of fun! We've actually started a second playthrough of the demo trying out other heroes/story paths :D
how many enemmies were typcally on the map at once
Game looks super interesting, way too costly for me right now. Curious, I saw your "uncertainty" comments in regards to the Vampire game on KS currently but you are totally behind Stormsunder? Seems contradictory considering Lazy squire still hasn't delivered their first game. Why the discrepancy ?
There isn't one, I think I just didn't make my intent plainly enough, coupled with people jumping to some conclusions as to my purpose with that update.
That comment about Vampire wasn't to say "don't back them" but just "be prepared for a different KS experience" as it's their first big success on KS. Wild Assent already prepped LSG which as you might have noticed, I wasn't pushing either as much as this.
Not saying SS will be a super streamlined experience, LSG is still quite small, but at this point they should have it more "together" when it comes to the process. This is no longer their first time signing contracts with manufacturers, fighting for shipping deals, or manufacturing at scale. Nor is it now their first time dealing with thousands of backers all wanting different things out of their game.
For Vampire, it is their first bit success like this so it'll probably not be as smooth as something like from CMON or Awaken Realms or other established KS companies.
I hope Vampire turns out super well but actually I think the fact that wild Assent, LSG's first big KS success is far behind kind of proves my point there. I wouldn't head into Vampire assuming I'll get it on time and would go in expecting the inevitable updates talking about setbacks with manufacturing. It's fine as long as you are prepared for that :) I personally love supporting and taking part in small time company campaigns - it's usually a lot of fun! But you gotta have the right mindset and expectations for it as it's quite a different "ride".
Hopefully that helped explain it better :)
@@TheKingofAverage Really appreciated that by the way. In general, it is super easy to fall into the hype trap in these kinds of games so having someone honest enough to say 'look' this has a few red flags you might want to consider is very much appreciated. And, sadly, extremely rare.
In fairness, I think this game has its own set of red flags. And if you felt so as well I would appreciate those being part of the reviews or ks day one details. If you disagree and felt that the timeline, kitchen sink nature, no delivered ks, pushing of Wild Assent weren't red flags then we can just agree to disagree.
@@anachronism7790 yeah I'll talk about it some in the actual KS Details video :) the review should just focus on the game on offer itself (and was plenty lol lol) - there are some things to be aware of, but I don't doubt it will be delivered. It's all about setting expectations IMO, mich like how I spoke about Vampire :)
@@TheKingofAverage I'm not sure you can even say CMON is smooth as they are very far behind in delivering, albeit the actual printing is probably delayed due to the corona virus catastrophe. But thanks for the clarification!
Okay, I've literally watched only the first 24 seconds yet, but I need to comment NOW: that is not your table! That looks like your floor! That game doesn't take up a lot of table space - it takes a lot of floor space! OMFG!
LOL nah it's my table but that's funny! You could totally play this on the floor :D
Heck if I'm going to sit cross legged on the floor to film an hour long video haha
Well it took me a while to find the time to watch the whole thing but it was worth it as its convinced me to look at backing (lets hope lsg take note of your comments), I like what I hear and there are many more pros than cons.
Finally thanks very much koa for putting that much effort into the review, totally worth it in my opinion.
You are very welcome Rodney, really glad to hear it was helpful for you! :)
Hi! The encounters and quests had puzzles and riddles? Or is just to kill the enemies?
Not puzzles and riddles (form what I played) but not just kill enemies either. For instance one had us pulling levers and doing tests and as long as we didn't do that more enemies would spawn. Also many of the encounters continue even if you don't kill the enemies (and sometimes special stuff happens later in the story if you don't kill certain enemies).
Was it just me or did the dice look CGI when they were on the table? Also great review!
haha not just you! It's super weird, they are painted with some like..chalk paint. Oddest dice in a prototype I've received :D
Looks really cool.
It is! Just played it again tonight :D
Definitely appreciate the work you put in on this one. I spend money like you and sometimes I wish I didn't.
I can always get the real deal from you.
You rock
Appreciate it Mike. We've seen quite a bit of crazyness on Kickstarter and discussed much of it - thanks for always being around :D
I didn't back this because the price was just too much. At the time I went with chronicles of drunagor. Hopefully I chose wisely. This game looks great
Drunagor is fun!
Hate the card art and font style and colors, please consider changing. Tile art and minis are beautiful, looks fun.
I know a guy that also doesn't like the animated/comic book style art as well so you aren't alone there :)
Super curious if you ever get any feedback on your feedback/opinions in videos like this from the publisher who perhaps decides to change a few things to address concerns or criticisms?
It actually happens quite often! Not like, the majority of the time, but you'd be surprised. One of the best benefits of an early review like this is exactly that, working on it as feedback for devs.
KOA can someone play from an expansion a character( for example from Pharaoh Wrath) to basic campaign story?
Yes and no.
For the most part, it's 100% story based but there are characters you can play that simply won't show up in that part of the story but are allowed to be there. Depending on what you're doing story wise though some or all of the characters are predetermined.
This also means you will play multiple characters throughout. You might play Capac for a few scenarios but then you want to deal with Alexander's issue but Capac the character decides to stay and look after something, so he's not an option anymore and instead you have to play Alexander. Stuff like that.
Thanks for the time and effort put in getting this review together. It is much appreciated!
You are very welcome Michael!
Two years later, how confident are you that this will eventually deliver?
I'm sure it'll deliver, but it's pathetic how much they've dragged their feet on this. It's painfully obvious this is a money sink for them that they only work on as they have spare time and can afford it from their campaigns since.
Looks kind of a bit like the Middara character card, but that's pretty cool :)
Thought the same, Im not a fan of this tho, looks like a ripoff :(
Hmmm, yes and no. It looks like Middara cards like Joan of Arc (heck most card games) look like Magic the Gathering cards IMO.
Ironically one of the guys working on this (not the graphic design) hasn't even played Middara.
2 years later... and still no game in sight.
2 years later and we are STILL only getting pictures of minis -_-
yes the two reasons not to back are still valid (1) giant table needed (2) must play with party of 4. I read and loved the rulebook during the kickstart. Still have them.
Not long ago you "warned" people away from Vampire chapters KS cause it's too big for an unexperienced company. Why this is different? This project has an amount of content many times bigger than VtM and LSG hasn't delivered a KS yet. Just curious. You also note that the combat flow feels right, don't you think regular actions+hero skills+item actions+5 cards on hand almost every turn could lead to PA? You also said that you can prepare in advance before your turn but does the layout of the field change largely after every activation? Besides this this project looks awesome and it's great to have some info on your side.
Happy to explain :)
Number 1 is that I never warned people away from Chapters at all. I think some reacted poorly and then jumped to conclusion. In my post I just explain that you should be cautious and really understand what you are getting into. Chapters is an IP based board game that exploded in popularity from a company that's never had popularity before or dealt with an IP board game like this before. If you look at past examples of this happening there are some bumps along the road as the company suddenly has to deal with both the big success but also the IP.
That's not to say the campaign is terrible or the game will be bad or won't deliver. As I said in the post, it just won't be the same smooth sailing experience you get from a well oiled campaign from KS veterans like CMON or Awaken Realms and to avoid frustration and angry comments down the line you should go into Chapters with that in mind.
Hopefully that clears that part up. Now as for why this is different: It's not an IP based game so far less of a hurdle getting every single piece of art and ever sculpt submitted, changed, submitted again, repeat until approved. Additionally, Lazy Squire Games has already had their first big success on KS with Wild Assent. While not delivery, many of the issues that come from the sudden success (and what I'd assume Chapters will have to deal with at some point) such as hiring more staff and updating internal processes to handle a larger company have already taken place. You can read their risks and challenges section where they say that.
Lastly, SS has a very well put together prototype, the best I've ever received actually which I feel says quite a lot about where they are at the the game already. The rulebook was well put together and formatted well and the campaign demo ran very smoothly. This obviously helps me build confidence and I believe them when they in that risks/challenges section that the game is already balanced and plays well.
As for PA: This happened once where we re-assessed as a group what I was to do. The way they combat this is 1: you know exactly what enemies will go next and what their order of operations are on their card. Know 3 spearmen are going before you and they will fight at range? Then you have a good sense of where they will be.
Additionally, and I thought this worked really well, but you draw cards into your hand at the end of your turn not the beginning, so you aren't suddenly faced with new cards/opportunities. The cards in your hand have been there since your last turn giving you plenty of time to think about how you'd like to use them.
Great questions!
@@TheKingofAverage Thanks for your quick and complete explanations! Regarding gameplay I see some mix between many of the most sucessfull games on the industry from the last 5 years or so with the addition of the build up for ultimates. I even see those stats and bonuses remind me of D&D in some way, which is awesome as well. What's your opinion on the huge amount of content offered just from the start? Most people would had liked a more slow aproach probably by only doing a KS for the first act only. Anyway, thanks again for your answers. Oh, btw, any plans on any gameplay video?
Way I figure, if Mythic could produce a $900 all-in game of huge scope with Joan of Arc without previously producing any KS games on their own and it turned out well, and KD:M can do a multi million campaign based on some art prints LGS can have a shot at that too.
Certainly not a tactic many choose to do. Of note however is the fact that it's 2 waves with the PM in between, so can safely back at $150 and the rest after you play the game.
@@TheKingofAverage According to the rulebook (p24) linked on the KS page you draw cards at the beginning of your activation, not at the end. I don't like that design decision, because, as you stated, it would increase downtime, since you can't really plan your turn before drawing cards.
all right iam all in^^
haha welcome the club dude!
Late to the game, but just wanted to point out the damage table seems to make sense? It pushes heroes with certain stats to use certain weapons? I don’t know the particulars, but maybe bows have high agility requirement which is also a stat the rogue/hunter classes have a lot of. This makes the weapon more beneficial in their hands vs, say a warrior, who generally uses strength and heavy melee weapons. It seems very fitting and thematic?
What are your thoughts on people backing board games just for the miniatures, and then complaining that they feel they aren't getting a high enough figure count for their money? They seem to not care about gameplay and just raw figure count.
Those boards appear to be extremely dark and difficult to understand what they are representing. Are they better in person, or just poorly designed?
Just the camera lighting sorry about that. None of us had issues with seeing the board and also should be noted this is definitely the darkest tile set. The other ones are desert sand and inside building. This one we were in the catacombs :D
The samples were painted black so they blended with the background, but the final production minis will be in gray.
will not* and yeah the minis will stand out a LOT more than they do here.
@@TheKingofAverage Production ones will be in gray, not black. Statues look better in gray. :)
Hey King,
Thanks for Presentation, it's really interesting.
We do not have a large table, how much space does the game need and does it always have to be played with 4 characters even if we only play in pairs?
So you know if language version will be printed or only PDF?
Yeah yet another game that looks really good, and would want to go all in. However I have so many games I went all in on coming that I feel I would have no time for yet another game of this size.
Great video!
Really looking forward to your comparison video.
Would this be managable to play solo ?
Hm, I like the game. But I would play it 99% solo. As far as I read, solo means, I have to control 4 chars - this is a bit overwhelming...mhmh
They are looking into a solo mode for easier handling but they have no news for that at the moment because they first have to balance everything out for 4 players. But it will probably still always be 4 characters you have to play because of the story etc.
Timeframe of the demo was 5-6 hours, was this done all in one sitting? Did it flow well? One~two minute turns or 10+ minutes (gameplay, not including narrative story). Thanks.
Comparison to Acadia Quest.
Haven't played Arcadia Quest (blame Starcadia being so late) but do know that I'm nitpicky/hyper sensitive to player downtime. I *hate* extended periods of nothing to do while others take their turns.
1-2 minute easily. You know the turn order and what the enemies will probably do based on group discussion and also you draw your cards into your hand at the end of your turn not the beginning, so you aren't suddenly faced with new options from drawn cards, instead you've had plenty of time to plan what you will do with the cards you have considering the enemies that will act before you. Helps a lot!
As for flow, it's super smooth minus the setup time. You flow in and out of combat frequently (depending on your choices) and there's no abrupt chapter cuts or anything like that. We dynamically went from bargaining with a guy to travelling to a dungeon to solving dungeon mysteries, fighting every so often along the way.
We did it in two sittings btw, so about 3 hours each and were able to stop where we could have packed up (but I just left it on the table).
I thought you once put a ‘main menu’ for the content in this video...
That was very helpful.
Did you put it down?
The timestamps? Sadly this was before I added those. I'll look into adding them after work today :)
I really appreciate your independent opinion on this games, but as feedback (and as a patron), lets consider the fact theses videos are 1 hour long. So it would be incredibly useful if you could segment you opinions and then put time stamps in the vid description (e.g. component quality, campaign, how it plays, final conclusion, etc). That would be extremely useful. Thanks
Heya DTM! As always I really appreciate the feedback :)
I might be able to put some general time stamps in and will look into doing that in the future, but it won't be quite so granular just because while I have a bullet point list, I leave myself room to talk pretty openly so often times I'll mention component quality for example 3-4 times in the video all throughout.
I might also look into actually trying to organize to the level of having all component discussion in one go and such, though I'm unsure how close I'd stick to that without an actual script.
Just as an FYI, I'm still not satisfied with my review format. I was watching some non board game related YT videos recently that segmented it to a first part quick run through of opinions that was pretty formulated, and then a longer "extended" version that was pretty loosely done for those that want lots more info. I think I'd like to try and see if that feels "right" to me :)
This or Aeon Trespass? And why? Because I wont both but my wallet says one and I'm going all in for whichever is better
Personally I'd say core pledge of both over all-in for just 1. However to answer your question more directly I did do a big versus video: ua-cam.com/video/LopFvDHK738/v-deo.html
Hope it helps!
Yeah, so far the ONLY thing I'm not a huge fan of is that BD chart you talked about - wish they'd just do a straight number deal. Still, I'm all in even if they don't change it - looks amazing. Great vid!
It just allows old equipment to not become redundant as the BD will increase with the hero's level. They only have 3 tiers of equipment, equipment belonging to the same tier should have similar effectiveness.
I watched this a second time just now. When I watched this the first time, it caused me to go all in. Everything you pointed out, I love. Thank you for such a detailed review.
You are very welcome Jim! This has been my wife's favorite narrative game, it can be a bit clunky but is a great experience overall from good scenario variety to the high stakes narrative with long form and short form decision repercussions :)
Thanks for the review.
I have read their KS and FB page. That's a massive full multi languages project.
2022 thats far ^_^
I feel it's more realistic though :D
looks a little like sword n fiddly with all the cards but ...maybe they could have made tiles with different art work. also the idea of not putting move squares was a good one
Yeah I actually like the few white marks. You don't notice them unless you use them surprisingly.
Hello, when is the campaign for this game starting?> Thx
It launched on the 25th and will last for 9 days on Kickstarter :)
📝
My understanding is that this publisher cant/ won't deliver. What's your take on this? They haven't even delivered Wild Assent.
I'd not put my name in a positive way with something I felt was at risk. Wild Assent seems close to shipping for me. They are slow, but it'll get to ya :)
@@TheKingofAverage Thats quite the endorsement. Ok, then. All in on Stormsunder it is.
Arrrgh... this game seems incredible, but almost too much content for me :( The price isn't an issue considering the things included, but the amount of content could be a problem. When will I find the time to paint it all?
Thanks to this channel, I learned about a bunch of upcoming Kickstarter this year that seems amazing. However, I can only spend so much time actually painting and playing these games, and this game... got everything I want and so much more. We'll see next week I guess.
Thanks for the video anyway! :)
That's a very good realistic approach to it! And also something hard to stick to. It's interesting the approaches to it all. One of my negatives with Arena was the re-use of miniatures to handle their many enemy types.
Stormsunder does not had has a robust amount of enemies just like Arena, but with all the minis to match it all.
Middara made miniatures for all of their Act 1 and it took dozens and dozens of stretch goals in a second campaign to get them.
So it's interesting to see the real "cost" of that desire to have it all match both from a monetary standpoint and just a physical one.
@MrTrainerGuy1 Thanks for the long reply!
I know the games you mentioned, and I’m already All-in on Oathsworn :) I also backed Etherfields but only the core game (gf is super hyped for the game, and I was hoping to get the game for the birthday in June... oh well), but decided to skip Dawn of Madness. However, I also backed Aeon Trespass Odyssey, Isofarian Guard and Middara last year and waiting for them. I’m also considering getting Zerywia late pledge, just to have one of those games that doesn’t have tons of minis ;) So I have a lot of content with campaigns on its way, eventually.
On top of this, I have an interest in some other games this year that I might back, like Frosthaven, Hel The last Saga, Sankokushin, The Shivers, Ankh, SteamWatchers, The 7th Citadel, ISS Vanguard... and plenty of other games... Not all of them have minis and stuff, but all of them will eat more of my time. Most likely I'll back a few of these.
So I’m questioning myself when I’ll have time for hundreds of minis and hundreds of pages of content. After seeing the campaign and reading the demo campaign, I’m more or less sold for the core pledge at least. With so much content I’m almost hoping for a delay though, so I got enough time to finish the other things before Stormsunder ^^
Hey King. Did you play this solo? If so, how is admin of four characters?
Definitely would like to hear your conclusions on the solo perspective with 4 characters. Would you recommand it for an experienced DC Solo player ? How does it compare to playing Descent v2/Imperial Assault/S&S/D&D games with 3-4 characters ?
Orbacus Shompo given what was said in the “Cage match” video I think King played this two-player.
I liked the use of terrain in your video, but noticed the terrain is only included in the 2nd and 3rd boxes. Do you know how handle terrain in the first box battles?
Yeah sure do, they are tokens :)
Thanks, sort of small reason to go all in. Assuming all boxes are still going to shipped at same time and terrain is somewhat the same!!
5:36
but what? what do you think of the miniature ?
I mention them much later on in the video :) "but um" was my awkward transition to what I was saying before getting side tracked by the pretty minis :D
I noticed that on Adina's board, the first ability refers to her by name (Adina's auras affect ...), but the second doesn't (Refill this hero's hand ...). Usually, abilities use "this unit" or "this character" when the abilities are not exclusive to a hero in order to include all options, but here we're talking about the abilities that are printed on the character's board. Do you know what the reason is for that and if the wording of these abilities is something they still work on?
I like what I'm seeing here and I am a big fan of the art. and the simple mechanics. I don't think the demo missions are available to the public, and without that, I can't really tell how interactive the story is, but based on what you said, it sounds like a CYOA structure with a little more freedom than what we usually see in gamebooks.
They said they might release the demo campaign book and if so I think that'd be great for everyone :)
Things are still in flux for sure. It's not just that board but in general. The rulebook makes note that they won't be using "hero" or "villain" but instead "allies" and "enemies" since there will be times where you might be fighting a former hero, or alongside some enemies against a mutual enemy, etc. This is something they are still in the process of updating game wide but I think it's a smart move so it's not so confusing. Ideally they word something one way always so that'll be nice.
Very astute of you to notice!
BTW maker her a walking aura machine is awesome pairing it with her Godspoken. I wonder if story wise you can have her lose that though...Seems a possibility to have her fall from grace.
Hey cartoon80s90s
! Adina's second basic skill is more generic in its wording because it is common among all priests, while her first is unique to her (Yaedra has only spoken to her, after all). We put a lot of thought into Stormsunder's characters, so much so that there is a hidden hero creation system behind the scenes in case we want to add another of the same class (something fun, like a Vampire Priest, say) or open the floodgates and look at a proper pen & paper style create your own hero expansion down the road. You can see some of the other hero cards here: stormsunder.com/heroes. Note that they also have a personal skill at the top and a class skill below it (and the use of "hero" is pretty common, but only for skills/equipment/abilities that affect the hero using them).
We're almost certain to release the demo campaign book for launch; its only a small segment of Heirs of Ruin, but its pretty awesome and therefore a big selling point :p
@@lazysquiregames6082 Thanks for your fast response. If the reason for the different wording is a distinction between personal and "class" skills, then it is a good one. I will be following the project closely and I wish you the best of luck with the upcoming KS campaign.
Do we want/need another one of these?
depends on who you ask but I suspect many combinations of yes and no.
From my experience, this one plays quite different. It's like the scale of story decisions from Aeon Trspass: Odyssey, but with the personal story level of Oathsworn and the grand scope like Arena.
I have no time to watch it now, but will be good entertainment for tomorrow morning.
Hope you like it! :)
@@TheKingofAverage Yes, I like it. But since it's so large, I still don't know if I will actually back it. The minis are awesome and that would be my main reason for getting this. Six boxes (plus whatever is added during the campaign) gives me a bit of a Joan of Arc or Green Horde vibe ... lots of boxes to store.
It looks interesting, I like the way it plays out and has many cool elements like the minis, tiles, cards, artwork ... the main problem for me is money, it's expensive and doesn't fit in my budget anymore ... of course, I could make exceptions but didn't see (yet) anything that really stands out and makes this one shine above others games I already have or will get delivered in the coming year - so if you can make a comparison with Arena or Middara ... how similar are them and why would I chose this one above the others two for example? Thanks for the great video !!!
I will be doing that video soon :)
This kind of video is what D.E.I was missing.
Actually I made a D.E.I. video the second time they were on KS - but it wasn't before the release like this one so far less impactful in how much it helps prospective backers I feel.
@@TheKingofAverage I know, and some others too, but only for their second attempt and like you said, it wasn´t before the start of the campaign.
LMS should have done way more to promote their game, escpecially because the second campaign was way better.
Regarding Stormsunder, this game looks impressive, but the price is impressive too.
@@KurtKn1sp3l Iol impressive price :D and yeah totally, I hadn't even heard of DEI the first time around 😂
The Base Damage chart was pretty easy to figure out.
Figure out or memorize?
The King of Average 3,4,5= -1, 6-7=0 and every 2 numbers it goes up by 1. So 8-9=1, 10-11= 2 and so on. Just on the chart you showed.
The table is bad game design. I'm glad King mentioned it in the video. When I read the manual, it stuck out like a sore thumb amongst other elements that were more cleanly designed. Hopefully they can refine it.
Casey Nordell I’m not saying if it’s a good or bad design, just that I found it relatively easy to understand after 30 seconds. It’s not counterintuitive like THAC0 for example.
I enjoyed the review but found the fixed camera setup a bit uninspiring, particularly since the video is so long. I ended listening to it whilst painting.. good coverage neverthelesss. Looking forward to the comparison video; I backed Aeons trespass and haven’t confirmed my pledge yet for Oathsworn
Thanks for the feedback Marco! I had to rush this out to get it done in time for you guys but I also have no qualms with people listening instead of watching :)
@@TheKingofAverage Spent 6 hours on a video so someone could come on and announce they didn't like your camera angle. Really? I've never had a camera angle inspire me. Maybe go watch an infomercial, lots of different camera angles.
Just dropped my Batman TAS pledge and went 2nd tier on Storm Sunder!!
Ooooooh exciting! I've had a lot of fun with the game and my goodness are the minis well sculpted
Seems like a worse Middara.......
IDK about worse, but Middara is certainly more rule heavy. Though if we are judging based on amount of rules then Kingdom Death Monster is the best game ever followed by Shadows of Brimstone I think :D
I still get 30+ Kickstarter games before this kickstarter. So I'm fine with delivery in 2022 :)
Great review. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Karuso I appreciate it! Yeah same here. At this point I might actually finish two other narrative games before the next 5 arrive :D
My problem with this is that I get it, games copy things from other games, I can live with that but this, every time I look at this game I feel like it's a huge Middara ripoff from the character cards to the item cards to the monster cards and it's a huge turn off for me.
I want to like this game and I know this is not Middara but damn it, everytime I look at the cards I can't help it :(.
Also those tiles are waaaaay to dark, I think they look better in person but it's kind of hard to see the artwork on them? Also Because of the colors it's kind of hard to see the miniatures on the board? Or could it be just my eyes are getting bad?
Darkness is a prototype thing I was told :) Not even the final material it'll be here.
As for the UI, the gameplay is quite different so utilizing a UI many of us are familiar with doesn't necessarily turn me away, but I can see why it could for some. As a long time Magic The Gathering player, if I was turned off by every card game that had symbols at the top, art on top half and text on bottom half I'd never play another card game again :D
Thanks for the review! I was worried this might just be a bunch of pretty minis, but it seems like one I'd really enjoy. I look forward to a more in-depth review down the road.
Question: In your graphics where you highlight key plusses or minuses for you, you indicated minuses before both "Meaningful Choices" and "Characters with character", but then went on to speak positively with regards to them (and I thought they both seemed rather cool myself). Did you intend that those both were plusses, or if you didn't like an aspect, what was it? I know the "meaningful choices" one you mentioned some false paths, but overall it seemed you liked it, so maybe I misunderstood.
Also, I'm sure this will be covered later, but are the stats on the character cards used much? You mentioned the damage tables, which I guess aligns with a strength attribute, but are those other stats used a lot for other abilities, such as Charisma checks in conversations with NPCs, kinda like in D&D? Just curious since the only tokens we got to see were the weapon default damage. Are there tokens for the others as well, or lots of table lookups?
thanks!
Great questions Dennis! I very much apologize for the incorrect graphics, you are correct those are supposed to be pluses within the video :) I was strapped for time to play the whole prototype and then also get this review out in time for you guys so I didn't do my "once over" like I typically do. I'm glad you caught those and asked about it so I could set the record straight!
And yes, a much better final verdict with the final product is definitely planned. We'll have to sync back up in 2 years! haha :D
As for the stats, yes actually! Those numbers at the top correspond to the the stat the weapon uses. So ranged will use perception not strength for instance so you'd check your perception number to determine the BD (Basic Damage) value of the weapon when you use it. And they are also used for tests both in the story and on the board itself. And certain characters can have buffs and such. For instance Alexsander can actually reroll a charisma test and Capac get's +3 to any strength test. Or like in that dart room I briefly mentioned we all had to test agility to see if we dodged the darts that were shooting out of the walls.
How does player scaling work with character counts? Do you have to play 4 characters for solo or can you run with 1 or 2?
you play 4 characters always so no scaling needed, but multihanding if solo.
@@TheKingofAverage Ahh thanks. Sounds like it might be a little much then for solo at least for me. 2 player two handed might be more reasonable though.
Unbelievably awesome review, thanks so much
You are quite welcome! :)