I’m a recent Postmil as well. The person who convinced me was… John Gill, the Premil Particular Baptist. His eschatology was surprisingly optimistic, and it caused me to look at everything from a different light.
Pastor Joel: could you do an in-depth teaching on Preterism? questions like: what is it? what is the evidence for it? what are the common objections? what is partial preterism? how does that change how we read scripture? etc. That would be a fascinating discussion!
Look at the site on UA-cam called There's no place like home, then on her site look for the videos Question the Narrative. It's a good place to start as for looking at chronology of events. I believe we are in the little season, but there's much evidence of mudd floods that could make us post Armageddon. I'm on the fence with this part still. Good luck, it's a lot to take in!
I would really encourage you to seek for the proper, biblical teaching on Eschatology. They were not Preterists; they were not Futurists. The Millennium of Rev. 20 is super simple as long as one understands the foundations laid in the rest of the book of Revelation beforehand.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; for the time is at hand. Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Gary was asked for key Biblical texts that convinced him of postmill….did anyone hear him give any? All I heard was you have to presuppose that Olivet Discourse was all about 70 AD, and agree to early dating of Revelation.
There aren’t any, that’s why. Their logic is circular. How people fall for this crap is baffling to me. Nobody ever read matthew 24 and thought “hey I bet this happened already” without somebody convincing them it has first. Matthew 24 said the gospel would be preached in the entire world before the end. How do they reconcile that one with 70ad? Jesus is saying it’s a time of trouble the world has never known nor ever will know again and if not cut short no flesh would be saved. How do you reconcile that since ww1 and ww2 were both exponentially worse than 70ad? What was the gathering of the elect at the trumpet? All the epistles say the church is also the elect? Here we are still waiting on our gathering to Christ and the resurrection. Oh yeah the resurrection is the beginning of the millennium according to revelation 20. When did we miss that? Paul addressing Timothy did not tiptoe around this topic. He called Hymaneaus and Philetus blasphemers for suggesting this stuff. They deliberately refuse to interpret the fig tree as relevant to the generation Jesus is referring to. These people want to dismiss the nation of Israel so badly. Well here we have once again. I can’t wait to hear them dismiss the third temple as irrelevant too. These people will be justifying anti-semitism and the attacks on Israel when it happens. Watch some of their other content. They already defend Russias invasion of Ukraine. This is the apostasy in 2 thess 2 and 1 John 2 beginning to take shape. Introduce lies little at a time so over time you’re in a big one before you realize it. Ezekiel and Daniel both were given prophecies about a temple that didn’t exist in their time. There’s no reason John wasn’t given the same with the visions in revelation.
I just subscribed not because I believe or understand everything said here in this video but because I love RC Sproul and I really like James White and Jeff Durbin (Durbin only recently). I do really like John MacArthur too even though he believes differently about the end times than the ones here in this video. So far, I have not heard a better teacher than Dr. RC Sproul (died in 2017).
@@jeremyfrost3127 I think it only makes sense in a scheme that has the overwhelming majority of the world professing Christianity. Otherwise, it isnt much of an apostasy
Every eschatological viewpoint takes that pretty much at face value: near the end there will be one last time of great apostasy. Doesn’t take away from the postmillennial viewpoint at all regarding what takes place in history leading up to that event.
It seems to me that it means at the end there will be a great falling away, and many will turn against the Church. Then Christ will return in glory to rescue His Bride and raise the dead.
Since when has any biblical world view number one advice has been to get out of a Bible passage that talks about reigning with Christ? This confirms that you have to ignore the only passage that calls the millennium the millennium to accept the post millennium view. Revelation 20:1-15 ESV “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Postmill is sort of a delusional wishful thinking. The word of God is very clear that when he returns he’s coming back to a mess. “When the Son of Man returns, will he find faith in the earth?” Sounds like a rhetorical question very little if any faith will be found
That question is rhetorical, you are right about that; and obviously the answer is "Yes". Even at the lowest point in the history of God's people God preserved his remnant, so why would there be no one when the church finishes filling the entire earth with the gospel and the gates of hell have fallen and the last ditch army of satan have been so utterly defeated that carrion birds are eating their flesh? The Bible paints an uncompromising picture of victory for the church in the last day.
I am not pre-mill. I do not believe there is such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture. I believe the millennium is symbolic of an extended period of time in which the church rules with Christ on earth as they grow through all nations until the end. I do not believe the whole world will be completely Christianized as post mill people do. there will be successes and failures but overall the world will get worse before Christ returns. The world is not as Doug Wilson says “God”s Vietnam”. There is no defeat. the gospel will reach all nations and there will be disciples out of all nations.
My problem with Post Mill is that one of the most common themes in the NT is waiting for the return of Christ & the resurrection of the dead. Paul, John, Peter, & James emphasize this not building a "golden age."" 1 Thess 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. Philippians 4:5 Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Matthew 24:42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 1 Corinthians 1:7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 3:4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” Philippians 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
@@CatfishHeaven777 That was actually part of Justin Martyr's polemic against Judaism. Eusebius also interpreted Matt. 24 and many other NT passages to be about 70 AD
What if both can be true? What if we patiently await His return, and pray for His Kingdom to come, and pray for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven? What if those things aren’t mutually exclusive, but are actually complementary?
@royal priest Most of the above quotes were written to discipiles outside of Jerusalem - mostly in Greece & Modern Turkey. The destruction of Jerusalem would have no effect upon them.
Behold the blind spot of the haters of Reformed theology, giving a positive presentation of their own view instead of just scoffing! If anything, I feel reaffirmed that all those who oppose my view can do is scoff, it's what the Bible says people will scoff at and mock sound doctrine. But the ones worth paying attention to are the ones that are unafraid to spell out what they think the Bible says and risk getting mocked for it.
@@oracleoftroy you seem a bit defensive, calling a given position a blind spot is hardly mocking it. Reformed systematic theology is mostly sound and biblical. But they blow it on eschatology. Of course, you must take each school of thought/theology on a case by case basis. For example, John MacArthur. I guess technically, he's a "progressive dispensationalist".
@@timcummiskey1178 You: "You have a blind spot!" Me: ...? And? What is it? You: "You have a blind spot!" How is anyone to evaluate and correct their blind spot if you won't say what it is or what corrects it? Maybe you have a blind spot that causes you to see blind spots that aren't there? What about eschatology does Reformed theology get wrong? I grant that dispensationalism is wrong (I'm Reformed so that's a given). Because I'm selfish and because you need some sort of clear statement to critique, I'll ask you to use the Westminster Confession as your foil.
Ecclesiastes 3:15: “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.” The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.”
Whats the greatest born of woman remind you about that mans to Spirit being look for outside yourself? Where is the kingdom of God told flesh and blood looking outside themselves, Paul knew what persons was being woke wasn't a smart reader. What you debate is repeated by man still worried about dust brilliance every history believers.
Au contraire, it is Dispensational Premillenialism that is breathing its last. It will die out with the boomer generation, and thus ends a black mark on Christian history.
@royal priest guess you’re calling the apostles and pretty much everyone in the New Testament ignorant. Reminds me of a verse somewhere about the very people like you, making the very same comments… And I’m not talking about Christ coming in 20 years, I’m talking about things getting so bad that the post mil view with be non-existent. Make sure to save this comment. Post mil is trash doctrine Edit: see you changed your comment wording lol
Praise God for this brother's ministry. I say this in love, he honestly rocks a double hair part in a way I could never.
I’m a recent Postmil as well. The person who convinced me was… John Gill, the Premil Particular Baptist. His eschatology was surprisingly optimistic, and it caused me to look at everything from a different light.
Two men changing the game!!!!! We appreciate it
Pastor Joel: could you do an in-depth teaching on Preterism? questions like: what is it? what is the evidence for it? what are the common objections? what is partial preterism? how does that change how we read scripture? etc. That would be a fascinating discussion!
Great idea.
I need a Postmil book for dummies. I have so many questions even though I’m pretty convinced scripture supports a Postmil view.
He Shall Have Dominion by Ken Gentry is pretty easy to read.
Look at the site on UA-cam called There's no place like home, then on her site look for the videos Question the Narrative. It's a good place to start as for looking at chronology of events. I believe we are in the little season, but there's much evidence of mudd floods that could make us post Armageddon. I'm on the fence with this part still. Good luck, it's a lot to take in!
Postmillennialism by Keith Mathison
You and Dr. White! I'm in good company. Recent for me too, thanks to Jeff Durbin.
Same here. His Matthew 24 series got me
I would really encourage you to seek for the proper, biblical teaching on Eschatology.
They were not Preterists; they were not Futurists.
The Millennium of Rev. 20 is super simple as long as one understands the foundations laid in the rest of the book of Revelation beforehand.
This is so interesting to listen to!
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Gary was asked for key Biblical texts that convinced him of postmill….did anyone hear him give any? All I heard was you have to presuppose that Olivet Discourse was all about 70 AD, and agree to early dating of Revelation.
There aren’t any, that’s why. Their logic is circular. How people fall for this crap is baffling to me. Nobody ever read matthew 24 and thought “hey I bet this happened already” without somebody convincing them it has first.
Matthew 24 said the gospel would be preached in the entire world before the end. How do they reconcile that one with 70ad?
Jesus is saying it’s a time of trouble the world has never known nor ever will know again and if not cut short no flesh would be saved. How do you reconcile that since ww1 and ww2 were both exponentially worse than 70ad?
What was the gathering of the elect at the trumpet? All the epistles say the church is also the elect? Here we are still waiting on our gathering to Christ and the resurrection. Oh yeah the resurrection is the beginning of the millennium according to revelation 20. When did we miss that? Paul addressing Timothy did not tiptoe around this topic. He called Hymaneaus and Philetus blasphemers for suggesting this stuff.
They deliberately refuse to interpret the fig tree as relevant to the generation Jesus is referring to. These people want to dismiss the nation of Israel so badly. Well here we have once again. I can’t wait to hear them dismiss the third temple as irrelevant too. These people will be justifying anti-semitism and the attacks on Israel when it happens. Watch some of their other content. They already defend Russias invasion of Ukraine. This is the apostasy in 2 thess 2 and 1 John 2 beginning to take shape. Introduce lies little at a time so over time you’re in a big one before you realize it.
Ezekiel and Daniel both were given prophecies about a temple that didn’t exist in their time. There’s no reason John wasn’t given the same with the visions in revelation.
Ok.
ua-cam.com/video/3xQyQnXrLb0/v-deo.html
I just subscribed not because I believe or understand everything said here in this video but because I love RC Sproul and I really like James White and Jeff Durbin (Durbin only recently). I do really like John MacArthur too even though he believes differently about the end times than the ones here in this video. So far, I have not heard a better teacher than Dr. RC Sproul (died in 2017).
I’m still waiting for any post-miller to tell me what the releasing of Satan at the end of the millennium in Rev. 20:1-3 is actually referring to.
Probably the releasing of Satan for one last attempt at deceiving the nations before the 2nd coming
@@wishuhadmyname that makes sense in an A-mill scheme, not in post-mill
@@jeremyfrost3127 I think it only makes sense in a scheme that has the overwhelming majority of the world professing Christianity. Otherwise, it isnt much of an apostasy
Every eschatological viewpoint takes that pretty much at face value: near the end there will be one last time of great apostasy. Doesn’t take away from the postmillennial viewpoint at all regarding what takes place in history leading up to that event.
It seems to me that it means at the end there will be a great falling away, and many will turn against the Church. Then Christ will return in glory to rescue His Bride and raise the dead.
Since when has any biblical world view number one advice has been to get out of a Bible passage that talks about reigning with Christ? This confirms that you have to ignore the only passage that calls the millennium the millennium to accept the post millennium view.
Revelation 20:1-15 ESV
“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Postmill is sort of a delusional wishful thinking. The word of God is very clear that when he returns he’s coming back to a mess. “When the Son of Man returns, will he find faith in the earth?” Sounds like a rhetorical question very little if any faith will be found
That question is rhetorical, you are right about that; and obviously the answer is "Yes". Even at the lowest point in the history of God's people God preserved his remnant, so why would there be no one when the church finishes filling the entire earth with the gospel and the gates of hell have fallen and the last ditch army of satan have been so utterly defeated that carrion birds are eating their flesh? The Bible paints an uncompromising picture of victory for the church in the last day.
I am not pre-mill. I do not believe there is such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture. I believe the millennium is symbolic of an extended period of time in which the church rules with Christ on earth as they grow through all nations until the end. I do not believe the whole world will be completely Christianized as post mill people do. there will be successes and failures but overall the world will get worse before Christ returns. The world is not as Doug Wilson says “God”s Vietnam”. There is no defeat. the gospel will reach all nations and there will be disciples out of all nations.
My problem with Post Mill is that one of the most common themes in the NT is waiting for the return of Christ & the resurrection of the dead. Paul, John, Peter, & James emphasize this not building a "golden age.""
1 Thess 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
James 5:7
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
Philippians 4:5
Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near
Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.
Matthew 24:42
“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
1 Corinthians 1:7
so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 3:4
and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”
Philippians 3:20
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
@royal priest so majority of the Christian church and majority of the church in the past were all wrong about this eh…. But y’all got it right!
@@CatfishHeaven777 That was actually part of Justin Martyr's polemic against Judaism. Eusebius also interpreted Matt. 24 and many other NT passages to be about 70 AD
What if both can be true?
What if we patiently await His return, and pray for His Kingdom to come, and pray for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven? What if those things aren’t mutually exclusive, but are actually complementary?
@royal priest Most of the above quotes were written to discipiles outside of Jerusalem - mostly in Greece & Modern Turkey. The destruction of Jerusalem would have no effect upon them.
@royal priest The resurrection signified the end of the old covenant. It is finished!
What common objections to postmill were discussed here? Title doesn’t fit the video.
Behold the great blind spot of reformed theology, eschatology!🤔🤦
ua-cam.com/video/bQjdNKseZ70/v-deo.html
Behold the blind spot of the haters of Reformed theology, giving a positive presentation of their own view instead of just scoffing!
If anything, I feel reaffirmed that all those who oppose my view can do is scoff, it's what the Bible says people will scoff at and mock sound doctrine. But the ones worth paying attention to are the ones that are unafraid to spell out what they think the Bible says and risk getting mocked for it.
@@oracleoftroy you seem a bit defensive, calling a given position a blind spot is hardly mocking it.
Reformed systematic theology is mostly sound and biblical. But they blow it on eschatology.
Of course, you must take each school of thought/theology on a case by case basis.
For example, John MacArthur.
I guess technically, he's a "progressive dispensationalist".
@@timcummiskey1178
You: "You have a blind spot!"
Me: ...? And? What is it?
You: "You have a blind spot!"
How is anyone to evaluate and correct their blind spot if you won't say what it is or what corrects it? Maybe you have a blind spot that causes you to see blind spots that aren't there?
What about eschatology does Reformed theology get wrong? I grant that dispensationalism is wrong (I'm Reformed so that's a given). Because I'm selfish and because you need some sort of clear statement to critique, I'll ask you to use the Westminster Confession as your foil.
@@oracleoftroy Again, reformed gets alot correct.
Dispensationalists get alot correct.
Ecclesiastes 3:15: “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.” The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.”
Whats the greatest born of woman remind you about that mans to Spirit being look for outside yourself? Where is the kingdom of God told flesh and blood looking outside themselves, Paul knew what persons was being woke wasn't a smart reader. What you debate is repeated by man still worried about dust brilliance every history believers.
Post-mil is rubbish. Won’t even be an afterthought in 20 years from now.
Au contraire, it is Dispensational Premillenialism that is breathing its last. It will die out with the boomer generation, and thus ends a black mark on Christian history.
@royal priest guess you’re calling the apostles and pretty much everyone in the New Testament ignorant. Reminds me of a verse somewhere about the very people like you, making the very same comments…
And I’m not talking about Christ coming in 20 years, I’m talking about things getting so bad that the post mil view with be non-existent. Make sure to save this comment. Post mil is trash doctrine
Edit: see you changed your comment wording lol
What is going to disprove it then?😂 Seems like you are going off of the very experiential exegesis that uncle Gary references here.
@royal priest I agree with you. I was talking to @Catfish Heaven