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Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... will send his angels to gather the elect..." Those that do not believe these words of Jesus will not go in the rapture. If you do not believe Jesus, you are not a Christian. Enough said.
10 years ago and some have dies and the rest are still waiting. I wonder how many will lose hope. Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... will send his angels to gather the elect..." Those that do not believe these words of Jesus will not go in the rapture. If you do not believe Jesus, you are not a Christian. Enough said.
@5SolasBrad 0 seconds ago Jeff’s understanding of scripture is spectacular. What I love most is his humble approach to it and the fact he rightly divides the scriptures. I love that he closely examines each approach and view to various interpretations and topics and then gives an exposition of the scriptures to explain the right view. It just comes to show that when you hunger and thirst for the Word of God, you will be satisfied. Keep up the good work Jeff. God bless brother.
I would love to have a video with a pre-mil person asking questions to Jeff because there are some common issues that always get overlooked in videos like this. Like how is the throne of David in heaven and not a physical throne in Israel? How is Satan currently bound and unable to deceive the nations when they look very deceived at the moment? Why does Revelation specifically say "1,000 years" and not something like "long period of time"? What about the mark of the beast and no buying or selling allowed?
@@biblehistoryscience3530 More like an Allegorical conflation of scripture from what I gleaned. AS I think you already know, when one fully understands the process of a Traditional Jewish wedding, whereas the Bridegroom goes to prepare a place for His bride!, John 14:1 - 3 , one would know the Groom has *Not* returned, and a wedding has *not* occurred.
There’s been times in my 9 years as a believer where I hear teaching or preaching where it seems like they are putting words on so much that has been convicted in my conscience as being true. This is one of those videos. It is amazing how much straw man arguments and reductionism that is in the church. What I tend to trust are teachers that are able to think holistically and see the whole will of Scripture. I recently had to left a Baptist dispensationalist bent church to a Presbyterian. In this video just everything clicked together, also including the importance of letting all the arts glorify God. What a peace and joy to have received such great faith.
I'm a new Christian and spending a lot of time struggling through the OT this year... this conversation made me feel like my struggle will be worth the while when I (finally) get to Revelation 💗🕊️
Stay in the Word. It's a journey. Also, understand that all are sinners by nature, only deserving God's wrath. Not deserving His kindness. This is the lens through which you should read. Then you will see how loving He is to show such great love to us, who do not deserve salvation.
@@donhaddix3770 you just don't understand. I highly doubt extremely smart bible scholors believe in something that's a "mess". I'll place my bet that you don't understand
Thank you for your willingness and patience to deep dive, to insist upon the consistency of scripture, and the sufficiency of scripture. It is an investment that is surely to edify all who take the time to examine and follow the natural reading. I’m grateful for both yours and Jeff’s earnest, humble, and loving drive for the Gospel, truth, and the commission that our Lord did in fact give to us.
Revisiting these videos, it's refreshing that Brother Joel is letting his guests elaborate their views. Even though Joel honored Voddie Baucham for his years of ministry and leadership, he failed to let him express very much. The lesson is that when you land a star of faith, let your audience hear from them.
1:15.20 min that passes like 15 min. So packed and so helpful. How you summarized the state of the church and culture and the win you are seeing was so on point with what I believe God is doing. Soli Deo Gloria!
@Reformed Hammer If we are gonna be swayed by every video we watch, that's gonna be pretty sad. You are reading Revelation and then trying to see it through the lenses of this video? 🤔 That surely is not a good idea. Mark around 15 minute. Jeff had feelings that he is wrong. Feelings preceded his then discovery that he was wrong! Then he (very skilfully and I admire him for that) argues with a Mormon "don't go by your feelings." Think about it. He is right telling that to a Mormon, he should just tell it to himself as well. He was wrong being Dispensational Premill, but all that was needed was to correct it to the faith of the Early Church and become Historic Premil. That's what the Scriptures testify to and the very earliest writings of direct disciples of the Apostles as well... That's how I would recommend to look at the issue.
@@JustinHonaker I've found answers to some questions and created other's. I think that a continuous look is better than being wrong. I wonder how it's getting worse when you were stretched on a rack for being Christian 500 years ago and the Catholics that were murdering us are claiming Christianity now. I'm seeing an ever growing kingdom with my eyes.
It's crazy I started reading revaluation from a post millennial view and I started understanding it more however I'm still up in the air. I'm still a New Christian and I haven't even claimed a domination I only know Yeshua died for pur sins was resurrected on the 3rd day and ascended to take His throne? IN heaven 😍 these waters are harder to navigate then I thought I'm just so thankful and humbled by His grace and Mercy, my life is so very different. I'm so very different and praying for patience and decernment
@@according2hismercy355 I have heard the book of Revelation described as God's divorce decree to the nation of Israel for their continued unfaithfulness and outright rejection of Jesus as the Christ.
Partial preterism regarding 666, Nero, the tribulation, # of Caesars, "this generation shall not pass", destruction of Jerusalem, etc., was mind blowing to me when I first studied the topic... it fits like a glove.
Yeah, but it's not cool, and it doesn't sell thousands of books. And people who talk about how God fulfilled l prophecies in the past don't make millions of dollars off of disaster porn. And that's why the "last days seven-year tribulation" is so popular in the world, because it appeals to the human desire for the excitement, is very fleshly and carnal. It's much more exciting to tell people they're going to see the end of the world and be raptured out, rather than telling them they can get old and die and the world could go on for thousands of years as they slowly work on their personal sanctification and build God's kingdom one generation at a time. That's so boring and difficult, we want all the cool stuff like stars falling and oceans of blood, that's so much more exciting. I hope you realize I'm being kind of sarcastic.
I love these videos and I am so thankful for them. One small bit of advice, make the questions for the guests shorter and allow THEM to explain. Often the questions are monologues
@@swffej nope, Gentile believer hehe. I just noticed that you said G-D. If I recall correctly, Jewish people do that to avoid accidentally backspacing God's name? I just find it interesting
Currently I think the most compelling sentence for post mil is Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.”
I am a missionary in eastern Asia. The talk of millennialism is moderately helpful. Most of the evangelical missions I applied to are premillennial. But some are others. Our biggest challenge is to simply seek and save the lost, hoping to follow where Christ is leading, but often running into darkness and delusion of the lost. In east Asia, the kindest people of the world live, and it's a challenge just to confront them, but the small churches are faithful, ...., usually. However, bold preaching often goes against the culture. Tactful presentation of the truth seems more appropriate, along with faithful Bible teaching, which of course includes teaching on the end times.
There is really no area in the Bible, where the apostles were teaching about the end times meaning the end of the world Beyond His final coming and final resurrection of all people. The idea that there are signs of the times to be interpreted, is not biblical, in fact Jesus said that only a wicked and adulterous generation seeks for signs. The End of the Age discussed by Jesus, and the apostles Paul, and John, were the end of the old Covenant age which was literally in their generation. Do you think that Paul and John would be saying to their people, "we right now are in the last age and the last hour", if they were meaning that every single generation for the next two thousand years was also in the same last hour? It doesn't make any sense. The last hour and the last age and the last days were those last few decades before the temple was destroyed and the old Covenant system of sacrifice was done away with completely. Read the book of Hebrews, where they talk about how this age or this Kingdom would be shaken so that all the things which could not be shaken could remain. What they meant by things that were shaken was the soon-to-be destroyed Temple and sacrificial system, what they meant which would be never shaken and never destroyed was Christ's true Temple which is the church. The church will never be raptured out, his kingdom shall never end, the true Temple of his body shall Never Be Shaken. This is all biblical. The idea that we are living in the last days, for some seven-year tribulation, is completely absent in the Bible. No seven year tribulation is mentioned in Revelation, nor anywhere else in the New Testament. The idea of a seven-year upcoming tribulation is a fabrication made by Darby in the 1800's by chopping Daniel's 70th week off of amd kicking it down into the future. And the problem is, Daniels 70th week has no mention of it being delayed for thousands of years. Daniels 70th week ended during the time of the Apostles, and there's no reason to chop it off and send it all the way down to the modern era. That's a false teaching that is nowhere in the Bible whatsoever. Don't you realize the idea of the "last days" of the church before a 7 year tribulation was an "innovation" (think heresy) of Darby from the 19th century based on Jesuit heresy at that?
Right! I keep praying and just reading the word...because sooo many things people say don't seem right. Throwing away this world and not thinking it worth effort always seemed wrong. And how can we boldly share the gospel when it will make no difference... I am still undecided have more study to do, but excited because many verses he mentioned I have been curious about a very long time. Even this broken world is amazing... I am very excited to see it put right.
Just remember, Hal Lindsey's first edition TLGPE book is vastly different than his last edition. Why all of the revisions? You only need to make changes when your initial assumptions were incorrect in the first place. Something to think about. That roller coaster ride would get very old, very quickly IMO, but to each his own. (1 John 4:1).
Thank you so much for this interview! I still don’t agree completely with Jeff about only certain people being elected for salvation, I think that’s one of the places in His Word that Jeff and Calvinists misinterpret, but this interview just makes so much sense. And I wanted say Jeff, you said EXACTLY what I said to myself a few years ago! I said was going to forget everything I’ve learned from people and man’s traditions and just read the Word and see what happens. Now I’m here😄 Thanks brothers!
I did the same as Jeff. I was not sure in seminary about the pre-trib rapture that I had been taught for years (also Hal Linsey, et al). Around my third year of ministry I began to prepare for an exposition of I Thessalonians by reading every major prophetic segment in the Word, particularly the New Testament (like Matthew 23/24, Revelation and others) straight through and repeatedly and it was an epiphany to me. However, I did not come to the same understanding as Jeff. I am convinced that the clear reading of it is pre-mil and I take all of Revelation as literal, meaning as how it explains each use of what is called allegory here (beasts, Babylon the Great, and others) directly after using such terms (the antichrist beast is a man, as is the false prophet, Babylon is the great city/civilization, and so on). When it says 1,000 years that is what it means; 42 months is 42 months, days are days. So, I am not pre-trib, but see the great tribulation as designed for Christians, our great test of the obedience we have toward Jesus our King, even to death and that it will be right and just of God to punish those who persecute His own people with His wrath that follows. Therefore I can understand how believers do not agree while remaining faithful to the text, and how Jeff came to his own understanding.
Don't you notice...how John addresses his letters to the 7 churches of Asia and tells them these things would come quickly...John also says he is there brother and partner in the tribulation. How do we get 2000 years later from that?
@@ttownsupreme2183 As I said, from reading it (every prophetic passage including Revelation) all straight through. All. Jesus did have John address the letters of the words of Jesus to the seven churches, and was to include things that would soon take place (things which did soon take place for those churches). John was their brother and a fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance that is in Jesus, just as we are doing now, and every believing disciple has always and shall always do. There is a tribulation and kingdom that is yet to come, which we wait for with perseverance as well. Our present position does not conflict with the one to come.
I'll bet you are being dishonest with yourself. You say you take Revelation literally? Good, then you must believe that there will be a massive woman who physically stands on the moon and has actual stars in her crown., which means she will be bigger than the entire solar system if she has stars on her head. You must believe that an actual Beast made up of different beasts with seven heads and ten horns will physically come out of the sea and rule the Earth. You must believe that Jesus actually will come as a physical Lamb with seven eyes and seven horns. You must believe that actual angel will take a physical chain and physically bound Satan has an actual real physical dragon and then throw him into an actual pit in the Earth. No, you do not under any circumstance take Revelation literally, you are being dishonest with yourself, you only pick and choose which ones he will take literally and which ones you will not as they are convenient to you. So you cannot accuse other people of taking Revelation symbolically while you pat yourself on the back as taking Revelation literally, because you're doing exactly the same thing.
Craig Chambers Its amazing that Christians dont read their bibles and figure this out like you did. Anyone who reads the whole bible and not just the bits that agree with their own presupposition will clearly see that the bible is a premil book.
You said that the great tribulation is for testing Christians, how about the Christians who are asleep in Christ? They don’t get to go through the great testing? Can you see the problem here… humble regards.
This is an excellent presentation. The speakers did a great job presenting their biblical and historical evidence for a postmillennial perspective. I highly recommend everyone watch it and to pass the link on to your friends. Technology is being used wisely by these men to reach the globe with this message. Support them with both prayers and finances.
This is the second time I watch this video/interview. Great subject and great presentation. Thank you! I am watching this time almost a week after the midterm elections in the US. Seeing how the results are affected with the continuous counting of ballots versus votes, and seeing how the deception, cheating and all-around corruption in our society is being normalized and more, I am praying for the Lord to grant repentance to His people from all the worldly influences now active and pervasive among believers. The Great Commission is how the Church will influence the culture! Being salt and light is how the Church preserves/conserves and how the Church shines the light of truth. The Post millennial view is a more actionable and more biblically sound (to me) than the other views other saints hold to. Since Christ is King and rules and reigns until the last enemy is defeated and His kingdom is not only spiritual but physical as well, then His Church has to be about His business. The Great Commission is a project that will last until the end of the age, and He promised to be with His people as we obey His command to make disciples in every nation, until the end of the age. It will be accomplished! Praise God!
FINALLY! A concise explanation I can grasp! Thank you God, Jeff and Joel. I think the devil is behind the idea that we won't win and the tribulation is right around the corner-we give up. satan is projecting his defeat and evil onto us so we are discouraged.
Don't get too excited. Jeff isn't taking a lot of other scriptures into account. Of course, Jesus was talking to the Jews of Israel in his time. But there's other references in and around those words that refer to the end of the "Last Days" which are 3rd 2000-yr-period of time before the 1000 yr reign of Christ visibly and physically upon the earth as Israel's King. The Bible describes 7000 of history on this broken ground. We are at the end of 6000 yrs. It's time for Jesus to return, first invisibly in the air to "fly his bride to his Father's house" and at the end of the Marriage Feast of the Lamb, concurrently with Daniel's 70th week, and at the end of the Feast, to destroy the armies of the world attacking physical Israel in Meggiddo Valley. China has a clean shot across northern India now (why do you think they have all these uyghers locked up???) and control of Afghanistan's easternmost airport thanks to Biden. We are at the point of the apocalypse, an event that does not include the physical temple made of stones, nor Jews fleeing Jerusalem until the end of the 7 yrs.
@royal priest I didn't say that the 3rd temple would be built with human hands! I didn't say that there would be animal sacrifices (there won't). The LORD will materialize his new City of Jerusalem. After the battle of Meggido in which the armies of the nations of the world are destroyed, Jesus will judge the nations and take his visible physical seat in Jerusalem. You have to get back into OT scriptures. God promised 2520 yrs in which Israel would be a nation in it's own land. The Israelites had 1520 yrs which ended with the diaspora. The Gentiles have occupied the land for 2520 yrs or so. It's time for Jesus to return and the 1000 yr reign to begin. In each era of God's history, he is showing how humanity rejects him, regardless of the advantages he gives them. Adam and Eve had perfection and ruined it. The Israelites had the Law of Moses and failed utterly. They had King David and human controlled govt with the kings and still worshipped other gods until they were spit out of his land. They had Jesus himself with them in person, and they killed him. The church age is to me the best to have been born in! We have no physical moment by moment interaction with God, we have to come to him on purely abstract faith, although to me, archaeology is physical proof of the entire Bible, but in the next age, the 1000 Yr Reign of Christ on earth, everyone will have perfect govt run by Jesus himself, and administered by the fully glorified saints/believers. And scripture tells us at the end of such wonders, the devil who was thrown into the abyss will be allowed to come out again for a short period to tempt people, and they will attack his Holy City. Then the Great White Throne judgement of Rev 20. Read Daniel and Ezekiel and the minor prophets. The entire panoply of history is to show that we are utterly inadequate to save ourselves, and Jesus IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.
This seems to be a blend of post modern Christianity. Don’t be deceived Revelation is full of scrolls, trumpet and bowls. They are all yet to come and tribulation is going to hit hard. In the last days, there will be false teachers, false Messiah’s. Israel is now facing the first one that I’ve seen. The world is not going to get better. Christians are not going to take over the world, but we have spread the gospel to all nations. Now comes a man of sin 2 Thessalonians 2, all the dark trouble that is going to fall on believers for at least 3 1/2 years, there will be a rapture or a catching up, there will be a mark of the beast, there will be two witnesses, and you better bank on it being Enoch and Elijah. Their bodies will be dead in the street and they’ll raise again. The whole world will see and rejoice because they call down fire. These things will all happen, even though Jeff and, James White are clueless
The more I read scripture and the more I study the world around me, I am coming to realize more and more the Bible usually means to be taken literally. More literal than most Christians are willing to accept.
I'm right on the verge of accepting and adopting postmill for my official eschatology! So that's exciting! Jeff Durbin's testimony is very helpful and describes my almost to the T. Also, I like knowing that our brothers that are Giants in the faith, most were postmill. Here's my question, how can we know that the reformers were postmill? Can you give us some resources that can prove they subscribed to postmill thought? How can we say with such certainty that the reformers and the like were postmill? Update: So, good news! As of 7/6/22, I'm now postmill y'all! I see the light in all of its bright glory! Praise the Lord! The knowledge of the glory of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea 🌊
Get away from this channel. Flee and find a church in your area that doesn't preach a false gospel . These people are preterist Calvinists (just Google) and therefore heretics
"Kingdom is everything" says Minister Jeff 8:40 and the Jewish group wondered when this was going to be restored to Israel in Acts 1:6 "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"
Our nation is certainly coming under judgement, but I think it's wise to view scripture with a broader view of history rather than our current situation. Or better yet we should read the bible in its own context rather than putting our own context into it.
Definitely seems to be widespread. Pre mil ppl would say the end is near, postmil ppl would say throughout history there are ups and downs, but going up over time, and we're currently on the downslope. Perhaps God is allowing such evil to destroy the idols of secularism, humanism, and atheism once and for all?
Appreciate you having Jeff Durbin on. He is a solid faith based Pastor. Thank you!!! I’ve sent your other shorter video to my former Pastor in Spokane, Wa. Good Pastor who spoke word and we have since moved to Oregon to be closer to our Children.
The big point missed here about Jesus speaking of the kingdom and His government is that it was too the Jews who rejected Him. That’s why the gentiles were grafted in and Jesus will return to save all Israel once the number of the gentiles is fulfilled.
I've listened to this several times and I am thankful for these 2 men. It seems to me that the missionaries through out history have been riding on the back of Postmil theology whether they knew it or not. I go to a premill church and they actually changed our statement of faith to just say "Jesus is coming again " to accommodate us postmil and amil members". Our very Godly pastor still has a premil slant to his sermons. Which is okay.
So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." Acts 1:7-8
Dispensationalism is still correct. If you read the book 'Things To Come,' by Dwight Pentecost, he makes it very clear why postmillenialism cannot possibly be correct. It's not for the faint of heart, only the serious student. God bless.
@@semper3796 After having read the entire Bible 40 times now, I am more convinced of Dispensationalism than ever. Dispensationalism has two primary distinctives: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as separate from the Church in God’s program. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method. If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.” Dispensational theology teaches that there are two distinct peoples of God: Israel and the Church. Dispensationalists believe that salvation has always been by grace through faith alone-in God in the Old Testament and specifically in God the Son in the New Testament. Dispensationalists hold that the Church has not replaced Israel in God’s program and that the Old Testament promises to Israel have not been transferred to the Church. Dispensationalism teaches that the promises God made to Israel in the Old Testament (for land, many descendants, and blessings) will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000-year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Dispensationalists believe that, just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the Church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel (see Romans 9-11 and Daniel 9:24). "All Israel will be saved." That has not happened yet. The Abrahamic, Palestinic and Davidic Covenants are yet to be fulfilled!
@@jlewis8145 After Salvation, I was a Dispensationalist for 14 years. I graduated from a dispensational Bible college. I was a hard core Dispensationalist. I am well versed in Dispensationalism. Then, I became a Historic Premillennialist before becoming an Amillennalist. Do you believe in a separate redemptive plan for the modern Jews? What is the Church? The Church is not a New Testament phenomenon. The Greek word for church is "ekklesia" which simply means "congregation or assembly." The O.T. word for "congregation or assembly" is "qahel." What did Stephen say in Acts 7:38? He used the word "ekklesia" to describe the "congregation or assembly" in the wilderness during the time of Moses. The ekklesia or "church" does not replace Israel, it is the complete and total fulfillment of Israel. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal. 3:27). The early Church was Jewish, with a Jewish Messiah, and the Twelve foundational stones were built upon the Twelve Apostles. It was not until Acts 10, when the Gentiles are grafted into this Jewish Church (ekklesia). The Church or "congregation or assembly" today is Jew and Gentile. Christ is the True Israel (Hosea 11:1 & Mt. 2:15). Who is a Jew? Paul emphatically states that a true Jew is not one who is "outwardly" a Jew but one who is "inwardly" a Jew (Rom. 2:28-29). You mentioned "all Israel will be saved?" Romans 9:27 clearly states a "remnant" will be Saved. Dispensational Errors. - According to Zech. 13:8-9, 2/3 of the Jews will be slaughtered in the tribulation. So, according to Dispensationalism, God gathered the Jews in May 1948 just to annihilate 2/3 of them in the tribulation. - Reinstitution of animal sacrifices? According to your view, the reinstitution of animal sacrifices will be to "memorialize" and look back on what Christ did. The clear problem with this is that Ezek. 43:19-21 states, "a bull will be offered as a "sin" offering and it will make "atonement." If this is the future temple during the Millennium, that would be utter blasphemy. Christ destroyed the temple in 70 AD for that exact reason. - The prince in Ezek. 45-46 CANNOT be the Messiah because, "On that day the prince shall provide for HIMSELF and all the people of the land a bull as a SIN offering." (Ezek. 45:22). To say the prince is the Messiah is pure blasphemy. Naturally, in this forum, I cannot list all the issues but just some key points. These are just some major points where Dispensationalism has it entirely wrong.
@@jlewis8145 In a dispensationalist worldview what quarrel does God have with todays Israel???...the 70 weeks were for thy people and thy HOLY CITY...Jesus said in Matthew 24 (which is clearly for 1st century Judea) that let all those in JUDEA...flee. Todays Israel : .were never called a wicked and adulterous generation never told Pilate to crucify Jesus and let his blood be on our hands and our children .were never told by Jesus that all the righteous blood shed on the earth would be on THIS generation .Are not guilty of covenant unfaithfulness because there is no longer any covenant I used to be a premillennial dispensationalist as well...know that Im out of it I see just how little it adds up.
I'm a classic premill, who has a post-mill aproach to living before Christ's return, with a positive view of the flourishing of God's bride and church amid the negative, growing darkness of the world around. I don't like the word rapture and prefer the resurrection of the dead. When Christ returns to rule, we, the bride, will be resurrected, the dead in Christ first and then whoever is left alive after the onslaught of the man of lawlessness. I find when talking to a lot of my friends from different positions that they often never respond to my actual position and perspective but to what they've read about pre millenialism in a book/classroom. Something I really respect about post millenialists is that you guys understand the call of the gospel is to bring both spiritual and earthly blessings in this present life, only I believe the fullness of those earthly blessings do not come until Christ returns and sets up His literal, physical rule and reign on earth, in an era of righteousness where the saints will rule, literally, over our enemies, where evil is subdued until the final day where Satan is released and thrown into the lake of fire, along with the unrighteous, most of whom are part of the second resurrection, being judged outside of God's grace.
A wonderful book to read is David Chilton’s Paradise Restored if you are just coming to study the post-mil view. Ken Gentry wrote his doctrinal thesis on the dating of the book of Revelation titled Before Jerusalem Fell-The dating of the book of Revelation. I encourage you brothers and sisters to avail yourself of these books. Christian you are not part of the terminal generation. You are part of claiming the crown rights of Christ to every sphere of this world. Our joy is seeing ourselves coming under his authority and then in our acts of obedience our towns, cities, counties, states, countries, nations coming under his authority.
It warms my heart to see the Preterist perspective(s) introduced to a larger audience. So much so that I don’t even mind that it’s (pre-ordained to be 😅) coming through a Calvinist 😊.
Here is the Original Semitic Text. Please take One Minute and READ This YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic Scroll: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@MansterBear Undoing thousands of years of lies, that was as short as possible. Let’s try these 3 verses Isaiah 42:8 "I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me. Isaiah 45:5 I am YaH, and there is none else.
@@Praise___YaH I already read the whole thing the first time. Then I saw it like three more times copy pasted on unrelated comments. It’s kind of like the prosperity gospel guys who paste the same “I had a vision for you, contact me on what’s app” wall of texts.
@@MansterBear Sir, I spent alot of time learning and writing that down. I have to share with 350 Million people, so if you’ve seen it more than once, now you know why
20:58 - 21:39 added with the sands of the sea and stars in the heavens comment. Now think fractals. Beyond your wildest dreams. Fantastic news! God is magnificent!
YESHUA Jesus christ not to destroy the old GARMENT but to fulfill. YESHUA Jesus christ will give new SONGS according to God's Will and for truth and peace reunite for good.
I've made the switch to Postmill over the past 12 months or so. Like you guys, my first introduction to this topic was Dispensationalist Premill (Tim LaHaye style, ha). Still learning. Great video!
My brother, check out Amillenialism, it is worth exploring further, even if you are lightly aware of it. It is more accurately described as "Realized Millenialism". The reign is right now, if you choose to participate in it. No question that the scriptures state that Christ brought with him the Kingdom of God. This is the belief of the vast majority of churches over the past 2,000 years, whether Roman Catholic, Orthodox - even most branches of Protestanism.
You have a lot of good points being a Christian can be so confusing with all these different people on UA-cam behind the pulpit all over the place with all kinds of opinions hopefully we're not getting away from the simple gospel of being truly saved and born again and being the remnant of the Lord and bringing others to the kingdom and saving people from the fires of hell I don't agree at all I've been saved since 1971 filled with God's holy spirit and a normal way and unfortunately there's so much false stock than 75% of the church is messed up I'm not sure who's really going to heaven and who the remnant is but I believe there will be a thousand year rain just like the Bible says but hopefully we can't let these doctrines separate those that are his true disciples
I’ve been a premil in the past, but in last 13 yrs have questions it and have leaned toward post. I don’t have all the facts memorized, I’m still gleaning. I know there is a blessing in searching for it.❤️ This I know for sure Jesus wins. What is a good book that views most of the popular views. Does anyone know? Very good discussion. Jeff talks fast, so I have to watch it again...
Preterism, Futurism, Historicism. Amillennialism, Postmillennialism, Dispensational Futurist Premillennialism, Historic Premillennialism, Heavenly Premillennialism. Which is correct? Which is false? Can't all be correct. The Reformers were Historicists. They were NOT Futurists, nor were they Preterists. Two different Jesuits (as part of the Roman Catholic counter-Reformation) first systematized the Futurist and Preterist schools of prophetic interpretation in order to combat the Protestant's view of Bible prophecy: Historicism. Most were Amil. Some were Premil. (just not Dispensational Premil, since that system wasn't invented until the 19th century). I've got a couple videos on the subject (poorly made), they might be helpful. *Soli Deo Gloria*
What are they wrong about? I've gotten different definitions on what the three mean. Do awes believe in a mill.? I lean more towards premil. Still a New Christian and trying to navigate is tougher then I thought. I DO not however believe in a pretrib rapture I believe the gathering of the Saints and 2nd coming is 1 in same day ? Like I said I'm still new and pray for decernment. There is so much division and issues in the church today issues I believe are way more concerning like homosexuality and the very Gospel itself is the issue of where you stand on the mill. Something I should worry about figuring put right now? I grew up in a church that believed in a pretrib rupture however I have completely dropped that belief 100% after much much research and prayers, but I'm still trying to sort through all of this, I'm still in air with an actual domination. I just know that Christ is Lord , He died for our sins and rose again on the 3rd day where He ascended , I believe in the God head and that we are saved by Faith alone but I also believe true faith comes with a passion to keep to the Laws but an actual and true faith comes with a constant state of repentance for we are sinners by nature. Idk praying I can just walk in a way that's pleasing to The Kingdom of Yahweh
as a post trib. I wanted to believe there was a pre trib, but after studying, and praying, and discernment. and combat in Iraq. I've taken a Post position....
Loved this interview guys. There was a part of it where you discussed what was mentioned in Joel about “last days” and conflating it with New Testament passages about society, growing worse in the “last days” but you never really landed on which passages referred to the end of the apostolic age versus the end of human history. If you could do a subsequent episode that drills down on those elements, it would be a huge boon to the amil/post-mil position where the ground gets shaky. Perhaps it’s because there’s no way to answer the question in a neat and tidy fashion? Also, I don’t think either of you addressed Christ’s physical second coming at any point in this interview, although you made inference to it regarding his glorious bodily return, but not with regard to “the last days” distinction(s). I’m curious what you would do with Revelation 20:7 and if you think perhaps we are in that season of time within Christ’s symbolic thousand year reign when Satan is released for a little while to deceive the nations?
The bible archeology needs to be taught in schools. Proof against people being ape men needs to be and explain scientifically in schools also we have the proof, now we need to fight to make it happen. Then a major change will happen. Someone with the educational criteria should do it. Hint hint to those with the educational background in this area.
@@FirefighterAliveJC I'll take Christ's words over ALL interpretations. Including the writings of Paul. What Paul writes mirrors Christ except Christ clearly says when. Not the day, or the hour, but immediately after tribulation.
I was like Jeff,when God first saved me I landed in a premill, freewill ,Baptist church and boy ,I thought I had it all figured out but when The Holy Spirit caused to believe the reformed faith,I had to repent and I'm still not sure about the end times.
My introduction to postimilliannialism... Traditionally pre-mill... but understand we can’t be dogmatic in this issue... I think I might be a convert- LOL! More to study... and see what the scriptures reveal... Mostly thankful Christ, our King, is presently ruling and reigning.
YESHUA Jesus christ HOSTS you are beloved. Because Jesus christ foundation is 1st. Love God all our minds, hearts, and souls 2nd. Love thy neighbors as thyself truly without ceasing but delight. As far as I know? It's the only place for our youngs innocents sons and daughters. The foundation of the kingdom of God and its righteousness. Beloved, the true HOSTS and Own of YESHUA. Are TRUE LOVERS OF GOD AND NEIGHBORS. UPHOLDERS OF GOD'S WILL. SOMETIMES I WONDER IF ALL TECHNOLOGY, SCIENCE, NOR ANY THING WE CREATE NOR MOLDED BY OUR HANDS. IS BASED UPON THESE 2.
@@ghostl1124 all dry GROUNDS is a house of prayers beloved. FEETS resting upon 1st. Love God 2nd. Love thy neighbors as thyself. Nevertheless you can find better foundation than these 2 beloved? Is like what is the true meaning of utterance beloved? Is like why talked nor uttered words at all beloved? For what? Is like how can you and me show off to God without our neighbors beloved?
The rapture debate sees God treating alive Saints differently than those who are asleep, why is that ?...Does The Bible teach that Church Age Saints who are asleep will avoid Gods wrath and similar ?
One more thought. I again what to emphasize that Jeff Durbin was excellent in discussing Scriptural support for his position. I especially appreciate his honesty and humility about how he moved from a pre to a post position and the clarity of his discussion. Also, I too, have been greatly influenced by R.C. Sproul's teaching on the end times, and found it helpful to be reminded of R.C.'s solid theology in this area. I would, though, like to express concern about Joel Webbon's "team" and "points" language. As the body of Christ whose charge is to love our neighbors and even our enemies, are we supposed to seek to score "points" for Team God? What if an unbeliever listened to that language? Where in the New Testament is that language used? Yes, there are sports metaphors in Scripture, but the focus is on Christians to run the race well, run to win, trust God in wrestling with spiritual powers etc. I only mention this matter because it , and the all-guy language in my previous comment, seriously detracts from Jeff Durbin's lucid and extremely edifying teaching about millennial positions.
There is also FAI Joel Richardson who holds a mid to post trib view that is very interesting so far as he is putting out videos this year on it re: rapture/eschatology/Revelation/The Day of The Lord, etc... He touches on the church not escaping but persevering through tribulations and persecutions. Just started viewing because I wanted to hear other views on eschatology. Found this video a good conversation. Still have questions. Don't we all on this subject??
It seems to me that preterism doesn’t allow for dual fulfillment, which God displays throughout the OT & NT. He who was, and is & is to come, does His work throughout creation.
And he repeats things to show that he did them, and they weren't by chance. Jesus lists a lot of stuff that didn't happen in 70 AD, and when he refers to the Last Days, he's referring to the period of the church between his death and his return for his bride, the church. It's a 2000 yr period, and a lot happens, and not all at once. But when the church age ends, Chapter 4 Revelation says "A door opened up in heaven and a loud voice called down saying "Come up here!" and you do not see the bride/church on earth for the rest of the tribulation, which is the 70th week of Daniel.
@@backyardcluck I’ve heard this argument many times. The saints in Revelation, and the elect, are His church. Just like in the rest of the New Testament. Just because He doesn’t use the term ekklesia after the letters to the churches doesn’t mean they are gone.
@@jamietownsend3677 That was the simplest of many many examples why there has to be a "catching up". There are around 22 "raptures" in the BIble, from Enoch and Elijah to Jesus taken to the roof of the Temple. It's not weird. And in Jesus' day, for 200 yrs before and after he came, EVERYONE had read and understood the Book of Enoch, which also describes activity by fallen angels. It's not in the Bible because canon scriptures focus purely on Jesus and his mission. But Enoch is quoted, 1/3 of Jude is quotes, and considered reliable by NT writers. Also, 2 Thess 2 is slightly mistranslated and should be read to understand that a physical removal of God's bride MUST happen before the wrath of God comes down on gentiles and Jews who reject him. Up til now??? NO MASS REPENTANCE OF THE JEWS. That is a future event. And it's coming soon! YEEHAW!
@@jamietownsend3677 That's not consistent with the referral by Jesus over and over again to his Galilean disciples that he would return for his Bride at an unknown hour, and take her to his father's house. Search for the latest vids out on the Galilean wedding tradition. It will blow your mind. The bride is lifted up and "flown home to the Father's House" by the groomsmen. She does not walk there. It is NOT BY HUMAN EFFORT that we who await his arrival are taken to the father's house.
Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE is Our Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic Scroll: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
I don’t see how people think things are getting worse. Do they just not consider how life was 500 + years ago?? Slavery is mostly abolished, more democratic nations than ever in history, the convenience, comfort and ease of life because of leaps in science and technology, freedom, etc. What’s worse, being alive in the 21st century or being alive in 1st century? Or any past century.
Well more abortions, transgenderism and the mutilating of children. More crime, the Bible talks of a great falling away, which is happening all the time . Preachers falling left and right along with whole churches being taught heresy. More wars... more demonic activity. Do you live under a rock?
This interview is absolutely fantastic. As if I wasn’t already convinced that postmil is biblical! I am curious what is the difference between dispy premil and historical premil?
There isn’t just one dispy eschatology. There are quite a few views (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, etc…) The primary difference would be the hermeneutical methods of the two perspectives. The dispy would hold to a ‘literal hermeneutic’. It seems to me this is derived from the foundation that Israel is distinct from the church. This is also why they accuse other perspectives of holding to ‘replacement theology. (That the church replaces Israel)
@@PostmillhighlightsYou are right and dispensational pastors especially Pastor Jack Hibbs from Calvary Chapel will accuse other views of Revelation as holding to "Replacement Theology" that the Christian church replaces Israel. Pastor Jack Hibbs even has a UA-cam video with his buddies accusing others of "Replacement Theology" see here ua-cam.com/video/d5HV4h6PD54/v-deo.html. Of course, Pastor Jack Hibbs will never hold an eschatological debate between his premill view versus a postmill view. Bible teacher Steve Gregg responded with his UA-cam video here ua-cam.com/video/pEgFhaB7hNs/v-deo.html to Pastor Jack Hibbs and buddies video
Historic Premillennialism differs from Dispensational Premillennialism in that the latter carries with it a Futurist interpretation of Bible prophecy (esp., the books of Daniel and Revelation): Pre-Trib. Rapture; 7-Year Period of Tribulation; Future Antichrist person; Israel...etc. Historic Premillennialists, like Dr. John Gill (1697-1771; a Reformed Baptist scholar), are not Futurists; Gill, and the vast majority of Reformation and post-Reformation scholars were HISTORICISTS; they were not Preterists; nor were they Futurists. Historicism is what is embedded in historic, Reformed Confessions of Faith like the Westminster and 1689 Baptist Confessions. These are NOT Preteristic, nor Futurist Confessions of Faith. Questions on this? Let me know. However, BOTH Historic Premillennialists and Dispensational Premillennialists agree that the 1,000 year Millennium will have Christ reigning 'on the earth' during the Millennium. The failure of both systems is that they see the reign of Christ as taking place 'on the earth' during the Millennium. When, in fact, Christ and all the saints from all time (including OT saints) will be reigning in HEAVEN during the Millennium, while the earth is desolate...void of life; only Satan and the fallen angels will be on it (miserable, with no one left to deceive for the 1,000 years). Only AFTER the Millennium will the New/Heavenly Jerusalem descend from heaven down to earth; the wicked will be resurrected; Satan will deceive them once again; they will try to take the New/Heavenly Jerusalem by force, and God will rain down fire and brimstone on them in Judgement...destroying them all. The saints, with Christ as King, will inherit the New Earth (newly regenerated) for all eternity. Questions? Let's talk. *Soli Deo Gloria*
@@ThereforeGo Most probably not. As an Heavenly Premillennialist myself, I do believe the Bible teaches a Rapture, but only at the 2nd Advent of Christ, not before it. Also, I would argue that there is no such thing as a 7-year period of tribulation. The idea of a 7-year tribulation period is taken from a misreading/misinterpretation of Dan. 9:24-27. But, Dispensational Futurists apparently can't do simple math because their starting date for the first 69 weeks (483 literal years) doesn't match up with the date of the Triumphal Entry and subsequent Crucifixion of Christ. I am also an Historicist; and I refute as false the Preterist and Futurist schools of prophetic interpretation (both systematized by two different Jesuits in the time of the Reformation in order to try and steer men's minds from the truth of Bible prophecy). Questions about this? Let me know. I also have a couple videos on the subject if you're interested. *Soli Deo Gloria*
You mentioned the state of Israel. How do you look at God's relationship with that people? Does He still have a plan for them, or has He broken His covenant with them? Jeremiah 31:35- 37.
I’ve had the same revelation when I read the Bible. It aligns with post-mil as I read it. I do attend a Calvary Chapel church where they teach the church is gone after Revelation chapter 3. I see the saints going through adversity not that it’s removed. How should we view the church in the book of Revelation after chapter 3?
No chance that the church is removed. Impossible. No one church or denomination interpreted things in that manner until the 19th century. That belief originates in JN Darby and C. Scofield, it is not even 2 centuries old. Look into this a bit more and see how wicked those men were. No good fruit can come from such rotten trees.
Really, another hour plus long video trying to debunk the pre-trib Rapture ? I can debunk yours in 5 seconds: Paul said, "Then WE which are alive and remain shall be caught up together..." Paul considered even himself in the potential number of those to be raptured BEFORE God's wrath!
Thanks for the video, gentlemen. Is there a chance that postmillenialism can lead to dominionism (i.e. the charismatic idea of the Seven Mountain Mandate)? The exchange at the end of the video used a lot of language that seems to overlap with that movement. Can you explain the difference between a more reformed (or historically Biblical) postmillenialism and Dominionism?
With the charismatic movement, it’s man centered where men have to go and take the 7 mountains and influence culture and is very man centered. Whereas biblical postmil the believers go and herald the Gospel knowing that the Lord’s enemies will be made his footstool. Psalm 110:1 God does the work and we obey him.
There is a language overlap in orthodox Christianity and Mormonism as well. It does not mean one ‘leads to another.’ There are too many foundational presuppositions that collide between postmil and seven mountain for them to be considered at all similar.
Even the 1st century Followers thought He'd return in their time. There have been dark times in the history of the Church. That doesn't mean the end times.
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If you can see what I have typed would you please question me on the things written? Please?
Like 👍 👌 💛 😙 🥰) 😅l😅l😅l😅l😅last l😮l😅last 😢 🙏 💔 💔 👏 😀 😉 😢 🙏 😮💔 😊😅
Matthew 24:29-31
"Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... will send his angels to gather the elect..."
Those that do not believe these words of Jesus will not go in the rapture. If you do not believe Jesus, you are not a Christian.
Enough said.
10 years ago and some have dies and the rest are still waiting. I wonder how many will lose hope.
Matthew 24:29-31
"Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... will send his angels to gather the elect..."
Those that do not believe these words of Jesus will not go in the rapture. If you do not believe Jesus, you are not a Christian.
Enough said.
This is so good and I'm so upset I've had such bad teaching most of my life
He must reign until His enemies are brought under His feet.
#ChristisLord
Surely not. He turns the other cheek. He is a pacifist.
It's good to know that others put the emphasis on loving God with their whole person. God will provide. Seek Him first. Thank you Brothers
@5SolasBrad
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Jeff’s understanding of scripture is spectacular. What I love most is his humble approach to it and the fact he rightly divides the scriptures. I love that he closely examines each approach and view to various interpretations and topics and then gives an exposition of the scriptures to explain the right view. It just comes to show that when you hunger and thirst for the Word of God, you will be satisfied. Keep up the good work Jeff. God bless brother.
Dr. Kenneth Gentry is another big name scholar in our day. He has helped me greatly on these issues.
I would and Gary North, James B. Jordan and Peter Leithart.
I would love to have a video with a pre-mil person asking questions to Jeff because there are some common issues that always get overlooked in videos like this. Like how is the throne of David in heaven and not a physical throne in Israel? How is Satan currently bound and unable to deceive the nations when they look very deceived at the moment? Why does Revelation specifically say "1,000 years" and not something like "long period of time"? What about the mark of the beast and no buying or selling allowed?
Preterists deal with every such issue with ease because they allegorize away everything that doesn't fit their narrative.
There are great books addressing all these things. Read Demar or Gentry for example.
@@biblehistoryscience3530
More like an Allegorical conflation of scripture from what I gleaned.
AS I think you already know, when one fully understands the process of a Traditional Jewish wedding, whereas the Bridegroom goes to prepare a place for His bride!, John 14:1 - 3 , one would know the Groom has *Not* returned, and a wedding has *not* occurred.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Or are we waiting for Christ to become a divorcee
Also the Bible is clear, 1 Christ return and 1 in the last days. Not multiple Christ return and multiple in the last days events.
There’s been times in my 9 years as a believer where I hear teaching or preaching where it seems like they are putting words on so much that has been convicted in my conscience as being true. This is one of those videos. It is amazing how much straw man arguments and reductionism that is in the church. What I tend to trust are teachers that are able to think holistically and see the whole will of Scripture. I recently had to left a Baptist dispensationalist bent church to a Presbyterian. In this video just everything clicked together, also including the importance of letting all the arts glorify God. What a peace and joy to have received such great faith.
At least Jeff shows the opposing view a grace that certain commenters certainly don’t allow.
I'm a new Christian and spending a lot of time struggling through the OT this year... this conversation made me feel like my struggle will be worth the while when I (finally) get to Revelation 💗🕊️
Amen. Welcome to fold! New Christian? I'd recommend watching some Mike Winger videos too; he covers lots of passages people mix up on
Stay in the Word. It's a journey. Also, understand that all are sinners by nature, only deserving God's wrath. Not deserving His kindness. This is the lens through which you should read. Then you will see how loving He is to show such great love to us, who do not deserve salvation.
@@edjo3430 pre-trib and literal. post-mil is a mess. 62 years of study.
@@donhaddix3770 you just don't understand. I highly doubt extremely smart bible scholors believe in something that's a "mess". I'll place my bet that you don't understand
@@mattverville9227 how about amil, mid trib or preterism?
Thank you for your willingness and patience to deep dive, to insist upon the consistency of scripture, and the sufficiency of scripture. It is an investment that is surely to edify all who take the time to examine and follow the natural reading. I’m grateful for both yours and Jeff’s earnest, humble, and loving drive for the Gospel, truth, and the commission that our Lord did in fact give to us.
Thank you!
This "deep" dive is a little shallow for some of us.
@@bobwood5146😅😅😅😅
Revisiting these videos, it's refreshing that Brother Joel is letting his guests elaborate their views. Even though Joel honored Voddie Baucham for his years of ministry and leadership, he failed to let him express very much. The lesson is that when you land a star of faith, let your audience hear from them.
"It's a process." That's a really intriguing phrase. That's really consistent even with Genesis 1 & 2: be fruitful and multiply and take dominion.
1:15.20 min that passes like 15 min. So packed and so helpful. How you summarized the state of the church and culture and the win you are seeing was so on point with what I believe God is doing. Soli Deo Gloria!
Definitely reading Revelation every day for 30 days. I'm asking some serious questions about where I stand after hearing this video.
@Reformed Hammer
If we are gonna be swayed by every video we watch, that's gonna be pretty sad. You are reading Revelation and then trying to see it through the lenses of this video? 🤔 That surely is not a good idea. Mark around 15 minute. Jeff had feelings that he is wrong. Feelings preceded his then discovery that he was wrong! Then he (very skilfully and I admire him for that) argues with a Mormon "don't go by your feelings." Think about it. He is right telling that to a Mormon, he should just tell it to himself as well. He was wrong being Dispensational Premill, but all that was needed was to correct it to the faith of the Early Church and become Historic Premil. That's what the Scriptures testify to and the very earliest writings of direct disciples of the Apostles as well... That's how I would recommend to look at the issue.
How did it go?
@@JustinHonaker I've found answers to some questions and created other's. I think that a continuous look is better than being wrong. I wonder how it's getting worse when you were stretched on a rack for being Christian 500 years ago and the Catholics that were murdering us are claiming Christianity now. I'm seeing an ever growing kingdom with my eyes.
It's crazy I started reading revaluation from a post millennial view and I started understanding it more however I'm still up in the air. I'm still a New Christian and I haven't even claimed a domination I only know Yeshua died for pur sins was resurrected on the 3rd day and ascended to take His throne? IN heaven 😍 these waters are harder to navigate then I thought I'm just so thankful and humbled by His grace and Mercy, my life is so very different. I'm so very different and praying for patience and decernment
@@according2hismercy355 I have heard the book of Revelation described as God's divorce decree to the nation of Israel for their continued unfaithfulness and outright rejection of Jesus as the Christ.
Partial preterism regarding 666, Nero, the tribulation, # of Caesars, "this generation shall not pass", destruction of Jerusalem, etc., was mind blowing to me when I first studied the topic... it fits like a glove.
So true
That's what sold me.
Yeah, but it's not cool, and it doesn't sell thousands of books. And people who talk about how God fulfilled l prophecies in the past don't make millions of dollars off of disaster porn. And that's why the "last days seven-year tribulation" is so popular in the world, because it appeals to the human desire for the excitement, is very fleshly and carnal. It's much more exciting to tell people they're going to see the end of the world and be raptured out, rather than telling them they can get old and die and the world could go on for thousands of years as they slowly work on their personal sanctification and build God's kingdom one generation at a time. That's so boring and difficult, we want all the cool stuff like stars falling and oceans of blood, that's so much more exciting. I hope you realize I'm being kind of sarcastic.
I love these videos and I am so thankful for them. One small bit of advice, make the questions for the guests shorter and allow THEM to explain. Often the questions are monologues
Agree, let the guest talk. You put this so politely!
Short question and let the guest have at it!
Thanks so much for your exhortation and encouragement at the end of this video Joel- I really needed to hear you speak!
Thanks for having Jeff on!
Wow - Last Days == Last Days of the original covenant. This was a great missing piece for me. Thank you both. G-D Bless you guys ✡🙏
Messianic Jew?
@@kyleisbored7465 Yep how about you?
@@swffej nope, Gentile believer hehe. I just noticed that you said G-D. If I recall correctly, Jewish people do that to avoid accidentally backspacing God's name? I just find it interesting
We can say his name. It's allowed. God. GOD! G O D. We can even call him Abba. Jesus!
@@mikkelmichelsen9655 Praise the Lord!
Currently I think the most compelling sentence for post mil is Daniel 2:44
“And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.”
That's one of the most convincing texts. Jesus was born right in the middle of Augustus' reign.
I am a missionary in eastern Asia. The talk of millennialism is moderately helpful. Most of the evangelical missions I applied to are premillennial. But some are others. Our biggest challenge is to simply seek and save the lost, hoping to follow where Christ is leading, but often running into darkness and delusion of the lost. In east Asia, the kindest people of the world live, and it's a challenge just to confront them, but the small churches are faithful, ...., usually. However, bold preaching often goes against the culture. Tactful presentation of the truth seems more appropriate, along with faithful Bible teaching, which of course includes teaching on the end times.
There is really no area in the Bible, where the apostles were teaching about the end times meaning the end of the world Beyond His final coming and final resurrection of all people. The idea that there are signs of the times to be interpreted, is not biblical, in fact Jesus said that only a wicked and adulterous generation seeks for signs. The End of the Age discussed by Jesus, and the apostles Paul, and John, were the end of the old Covenant age which was literally in their generation. Do you think that Paul and John would be saying to their people, "we right now are in the last age and the last hour", if they were meaning that every single generation for the next two thousand years was also in the same last hour? It doesn't make any sense. The last hour and the last age and the last days were those last few decades before the temple was destroyed and the old Covenant system of sacrifice was done away with completely. Read the book of Hebrews, where they talk about how this age or this Kingdom would be shaken so that all the things which could not be shaken could remain. What they meant by things that were shaken was the soon-to-be destroyed Temple and sacrificial system, what they meant which would be never shaken and never destroyed was Christ's true Temple which is the church. The church will never be raptured out, his kingdom shall never end, the true Temple of his body shall Never Be Shaken. This is all biblical. The idea that we are living in the last days, for some seven-year tribulation, is completely absent in the Bible. No seven year tribulation is mentioned in Revelation, nor anywhere else in the New Testament. The idea of a seven-year upcoming tribulation is a fabrication made by Darby in the 1800's by chopping Daniel's 70th week off of amd kicking it down into the future. And the problem is, Daniels 70th week has no mention of it being delayed for thousands of years. Daniels 70th week ended during the time of the Apostles, and there's no reason to chop it off and send it all the way down to the modern era. That's a false teaching that is nowhere in the Bible whatsoever.
Don't you realize the idea of the "last days" of the church before a 7 year tribulation was an "innovation" (think heresy) of Darby from the 19th century based on Jesuit heresy at that?
Hey, no such place as Zimbabwe!!! Rhodesians never die!👍Good stuff.
I dont know if Rhodesians want to be associated with the mess in Zimbabwea! hahaha. I pray one day she will be reformed again.
Excellent stuff! The more I listen, the more I see and understand.
I’ve never clicked anything faster
LoL yes
Couldn't click away fast enough
Right! I keep praying and just reading the word...because sooo many things people say don't seem right. Throwing away this world and not thinking it worth effort always seemed wrong. And how can we boldly share the gospel when it will make no difference... I am still undecided have more study to do, but excited because many verses he mentioned I have been curious about a very long time. Even this broken world is amazing... I am very excited to see it put right.
Hard to learn anything without listening.
Just remember, Hal Lindsey's first edition TLGPE book is vastly different than his last edition. Why all of the revisions? You only need to make changes when your initial assumptions were incorrect in the first place. Something to think about. That roller coaster ride would get very old, very quickly IMO, but to each his own. (1 John 4:1).
Thank you so much for this interview! I still don’t agree completely with Jeff about only certain people being elected for salvation, I think that’s one of the places in His Word that Jeff and Calvinists misinterpret, but this interview just makes so much sense. And I wanted say Jeff, you said EXACTLY what I said to myself a few years ago! I said was going to forget everything I’ve learned from people and man’s traditions and just read the Word and see what happens. Now I’m here😄 Thanks brothers!
Jeff is being so honest and transparent. Thank you
Sounds like. He knows very little. You sh showing and walking through scripture
God brought me to Mr Dubin! He's full of Holy Spirit knowledge! He makes me fall even more in love with Jesus! ✝️❤
I did the same as Jeff. I was not sure in seminary about the pre-trib rapture that I had been taught for years (also Hal Linsey, et al). Around my third year of ministry I began to prepare for an exposition of I Thessalonians by reading every major prophetic segment in the Word, particularly the New Testament (like Matthew 23/24, Revelation and others) straight through and repeatedly and it was an epiphany to me. However, I did not come to the same understanding as Jeff. I am convinced that the clear reading of it is pre-mil and I take all of Revelation as literal, meaning as how it explains each use of what is called allegory here (beasts, Babylon the Great, and others) directly after using such terms (the antichrist beast is a man, as is the false prophet, Babylon is the great city/civilization, and so on). When it says 1,000 years that is what it means; 42 months is 42 months, days are days. So, I am not pre-trib, but see the great tribulation as designed for Christians, our great test of the obedience we have toward Jesus our King, even to death and that it will be right and just of God to punish those who persecute His own people with His wrath that follows. Therefore I can understand how believers do not agree while remaining faithful to the text, and how Jeff came to his own understanding.
Don't you notice...how John addresses his letters to the 7 churches of Asia and tells them these things would come quickly...John also says he is there brother and partner in the tribulation.
How do we get 2000 years later from that?
@@ttownsupreme2183 As I said, from reading it (every prophetic passage including Revelation) all straight through. All. Jesus did have John address the letters of the words of Jesus to the seven churches, and was to include things that would soon take place (things which did soon take place for those churches). John was their brother and a fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance that is in Jesus, just as we are doing now, and every believing disciple has always and shall always do. There is a tribulation and kingdom that is yet to come, which we wait for with perseverance as well. Our present position does not conflict with the one to come.
I'll bet you are being dishonest with yourself. You say you take Revelation literally? Good, then you must believe that there will be a massive woman who physically stands on the moon and has actual stars in her crown., which means she will be bigger than the entire solar system if she has stars on her head. You must believe that an actual Beast made up of different beasts with seven heads and ten horns will physically come out of the sea and rule the Earth. You must believe that Jesus actually will come as a physical Lamb with seven eyes and seven horns. You must believe that actual angel will take a physical chain and physically bound Satan has an actual real physical dragon and then throw him into an actual pit in the Earth. No, you do not under any circumstance take Revelation literally, you are being dishonest with yourself, you only pick and choose which ones he will take literally and which ones you will not as they are convenient to you. So you cannot accuse other people of taking Revelation symbolically while you pat yourself on the back as taking Revelation literally, because you're doing exactly the same thing.
Craig Chambers Its amazing that Christians dont read their bibles and figure this out like you did. Anyone who reads the whole bible and not just the bits that agree with their own presupposition will clearly see that the bible is a premil book.
You said that the great tribulation is for testing Christians, how about the Christians who are asleep in Christ? They don’t get to go through the great testing? Can you see the problem here… humble regards.
This is an excellent presentation. The speakers did a great job presenting their biblical and historical evidence for a postmillennial perspective. I highly recommend everyone watch it and to pass the link on to your friends. Technology is being used wisely by these men to reach the globe with this message. Support them with both prayers and finances.
If only the secret rapture wasn’t so secret that even the Bible doesn’t know about it. It seems to think that Jesus is returning once.
This is the second time I watch this video/interview. Great subject and great presentation. Thank you!
I am watching this time almost a week after the midterm elections in the US. Seeing how the results are affected with the continuous counting of ballots versus votes, and seeing how the deception, cheating and all-around corruption in our society is being normalized and more, I am praying for the Lord to grant repentance to His people from all the worldly influences now active and pervasive among believers. The Great Commission is how the Church will influence the culture! Being salt and light is how the Church preserves/conserves and how the Church shines the light of truth.
The Post millennial view is a more actionable and more biblically sound (to me) than the other views other saints hold to. Since Christ is King and rules and reigns until the last enemy is defeated and His kingdom is not only spiritual but physical as well, then His Church has to be about His business. The Great Commission is a project that will last until the end of the age, and He promised to be with His people as we obey His command to make disciples in every nation, until the end of the age. It will be accomplished! Praise God!
FINALLY! A concise explanation I can grasp! Thank you God, Jeff and Joel.
I think the devil is behind the idea that we won't win and the tribulation is right around the corner-we give up. satan is projecting his defeat and evil onto us so we are discouraged.
They overcame him with the blood of the lamb & their testimonies.
Don't get too excited. Jeff isn't taking a lot of other scriptures into account. Of course, Jesus was talking to the Jews of Israel in his time. But there's other references in and around those words that refer to the end of the "Last Days" which are 3rd 2000-yr-period of time before the 1000 yr reign of Christ visibly and physically upon the earth as Israel's King. The Bible describes 7000 of history on this broken ground. We are at the end of 6000 yrs. It's time for Jesus to return, first invisibly in the air to "fly his bride to his Father's house" and at the end of the Marriage Feast of the Lamb, concurrently with Daniel's 70th week, and at the end of the Feast, to destroy the armies of the world attacking physical Israel in Meggiddo Valley. China has a clean shot across northern India now (why do you think they have all these uyghers locked up???) and control of Afghanistan's easternmost airport thanks to Biden. We are at the point of the apocalypse, an event that does not include the physical temple made of stones, nor Jews fleeing Jerusalem until the end of the 7 yrs.
@royal priest I didn't say that the 3rd temple would be built with human hands! I didn't say that there would be animal sacrifices (there won't). The LORD will materialize his new City of Jerusalem. After the battle of Meggido in which the armies of the nations of the world are destroyed, Jesus will judge the nations and take his visible physical seat in Jerusalem. You have to get back into OT scriptures. God promised 2520 yrs in which Israel would be a nation in it's own land. The Israelites had 1520 yrs which ended with the diaspora. The Gentiles have occupied the land for 2520 yrs or so. It's time for Jesus to return and the 1000 yr reign to begin.
In each era of God's history, he is showing how humanity rejects him, regardless of the advantages he gives them. Adam and Eve had perfection and ruined it. The Israelites had the Law of Moses and failed utterly. They had King David and human controlled govt with the kings and still worshipped other gods until they were spit out of his land. They had Jesus himself with them in person, and they killed him. The church age is to me the best to have been born in! We have no physical moment by moment interaction with God, we have to come to him on purely abstract faith, although to me, archaeology is physical proof of the entire Bible, but in the next age, the 1000 Yr Reign of Christ on earth, everyone will have perfect govt run by Jesus himself, and administered by the fully glorified saints/believers. And scripture tells us at the end of such wonders, the devil who was thrown into the abyss will be allowed to come out again for a short period to tempt people, and they will attack his Holy City. Then the Great White Throne judgement of Rev 20.
Read Daniel and Ezekiel and the minor prophets. The entire panoply of history is to show that we are utterly inadequate to save ourselves, and Jesus IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.
@@backyardcluck Be careful using that "newspaper exegesis."
@@gch8810 Not a very nice way to tell other christians view, putting them down like that, as if you are less superficial and much more knowledgable.
Love this subject and how Jeff discusses it
This seems to be a blend of post modern Christianity.
Don’t be deceived
Revelation is full of scrolls, trumpet and bowls. They are all yet to come and tribulation is going to hit hard.
In the last days, there will be false teachers, false Messiah’s. Israel is now facing the first one that I’ve seen.
The world is not going to get better. Christians are not going to take over the world, but we have spread the gospel to all nations.
Now comes a man of sin 2 Thessalonians 2, all the dark trouble that is going to fall on believers for at least 3 1/2 years, there will be a rapture or a catching up, there will be a mark of the beast, there will be two witnesses, and you better bank on it being Enoch and Elijah.
Their bodies will be dead in the street and they’ll raise again. The whole world will see and rejoice because they call down fire.
These things will all happen, even though Jeff and, James White are clueless
The more I read scripture and the more I study the world around me, I am coming to realize more and more the Bible usually means to be taken literally. More literal than most Christians are willing to accept.
I'm right on the verge of accepting and adopting postmill for my official eschatology! So that's exciting! Jeff Durbin's testimony is very helpful and describes my almost to the T. Also, I like knowing that our brothers that are Giants in the faith, most were postmill. Here's my question, how can we know that the reformers were postmill? Can you give us some resources that can prove they subscribed to postmill thought? How can we say with such certainty that the reformers and the like were postmill?
Update:
So, good news! As of 7/6/22, I'm now postmill y'all! I see the light in all of its bright glory! Praise the Lord! The knowledge of the glory of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea 🌊
Good question. I’m pretty sure R.C. Sproul has some resources on this.
@@RightResponseMinistries where can I find it?
@@micahlantz905
ua-cam.com/video/Ejd4ZAnXmMM/v-deo.html
So. Are you more saved then you were?
Get away from this channel. Flee and find a church in your area that doesn't preach a false gospel
. These people are preterist Calvinists (just Google) and therefore heretics
"Kingdom is everything" says Minister Jeff 8:40 and the Jewish group wondered when this was going to be restored to Israel in Acts 1:6
"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"
At this point in my walk, Pre-Wrath is the eschatology that makes the most sense.
Our nation is certainly coming under judgement, but I think it's wise to view scripture with a broader view of history rather than our current situation. Or better yet we should read the bible in its own context rather than putting our own context into it.
Yup!
ua-cam.com/video/xwXoMNpOhos/v-deo.html
Agree, but what is currently happening is coming over the globe, not just America.
Definitely seems to be widespread. Pre mil ppl would say the end is near, postmil ppl would say throughout history there are ups and downs, but going up over time, and we're currently on the downslope. Perhaps God is allowing such evil to destroy the idols of secularism, humanism, and atheism once and for all?
@@physicsman23 he is shaking all, so all that’s left, is unshakable.
Appreciate you having Jeff Durbin on. He is a solid faith based Pastor. Thank you!!! I’ve sent your other shorter video to my former Pastor in Spokane, Wa. Good Pastor who spoke word and we have since moved to Oregon to be closer to our Children.
The big point missed here about Jesus speaking of the kingdom and His government is that it was too the Jews who rejected Him. That’s why the gentiles were grafted in and Jesus will return to save all Israel once the number of the gentiles is fulfilled.
So...I found YOU by AD Robles...and i found Jeff Durbin because of YOU. This cycle is God given and amazing lol
AD and Jeff are fantastic!!
@@RightResponseMinistries all three of you! God just keeps on blessin me and I cannot thank Him enough!!
@@Hopeapotheke praise God. If you ever find yourself in north Austin, Texas, come and visit our church.
@@RightResponseMinistries thank you Pastor Joel! I absolutely will! God bless you!!
Really got a lot out of this. I have listened to Jeff speak on this before and felt confused. Thank you for the clarification
The Kingdom:
Not now but not really
But now but not fully
I've listened to this several times and I am thankful for these 2 men. It seems to me that the missionaries through out history have been riding on the back of Postmil theology whether they knew it or not. I go to a premill church and they actually changed our statement of faith to just say "Jesus is coming again " to accommodate us postmil and amil members". Our very Godly pastor still has a premil slant to his sermons. Which is okay.
I will pray God guide you in this teaching. Look at scripture plainly. No evidence for postmil or amil
Southern Pine There is no "premil slant" The bible is simply premil
@@christiansoldier77 --Your arrogant, know-it-all attitude does you no credit.
That’s awesome that you have a pastor who is willing to accommodate other views that are solid.
I am enjoying the great conversation!!! Thank you
So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
Acts 1:7-8
So what view are you taking by quoting this scripture?
Amazing Durbin! As always
Wow! I used to be a dispensationalist then became an Amillennialist. Now, I’m not sure if I’m Amil or Postmil. Postmils have a compelling argument.
Dispensationalism is still correct.
If you read the book 'Things To Come,' by Dwight Pentecost, he makes it very clear why postmillenialism cannot possibly be correct. It's not for the faint of heart, only the serious student.
God bless.
@@jlewis8145 I left dispensationalism when I became a serious student of the Bible.
@@semper3796 After having read the entire Bible 40 times now, I am more convinced of Dispensationalism than ever.
Dispensationalism has two primary distinctives:
1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and
2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as separate from the Church in God’s program.
Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning.
Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method.
If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.”
Dispensational theology teaches that there are two distinct peoples of God: Israel and the Church. Dispensationalists believe that salvation has always been by grace through faith alone-in God in the Old Testament and specifically in God the Son in the New Testament. Dispensationalists hold that the Church has not replaced Israel in God’s program and that the Old Testament promises to Israel have not been transferred to the Church.
Dispensationalism teaches that the promises God made to Israel in the Old Testament (for land, many descendants, and blessings) will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000-year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Dispensationalists believe that, just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the Church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel (see Romans 9-11 and Daniel 9:24).
"All Israel will be saved." That has not happened yet.
The Abrahamic, Palestinic and Davidic Covenants are yet to be fulfilled!
@@jlewis8145 After Salvation, I was a Dispensationalist for 14 years. I graduated from a dispensational Bible college. I was a hard core Dispensationalist. I am well versed in Dispensationalism. Then, I became a Historic Premillennialist before becoming an Amillennalist. Do you believe in a separate redemptive plan for the modern Jews?
What is the Church? The Church is not a New Testament phenomenon. The Greek word for church is "ekklesia" which simply means "congregation or assembly." The O.T. word for "congregation or assembly" is "qahel." What did Stephen say in Acts 7:38? He used the word "ekklesia" to describe the "congregation or assembly" in the wilderness during the time of Moses. The ekklesia or "church" does not replace Israel, it is the complete and total fulfillment of Israel. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal. 3:27). The early Church was Jewish, with a Jewish Messiah, and the Twelve foundational stones were built upon the Twelve Apostles. It was not until Acts 10, when the Gentiles are grafted into this Jewish Church (ekklesia). The Church or "congregation or assembly" today is Jew and Gentile.
Christ is the True Israel (Hosea 11:1 & Mt. 2:15). Who is a Jew? Paul emphatically states that a true Jew is not one who is "outwardly" a Jew but one who is "inwardly" a Jew (Rom. 2:28-29).
You mentioned "all Israel will be saved?" Romans 9:27 clearly states a "remnant" will be Saved.
Dispensational Errors.
- According to Zech. 13:8-9, 2/3 of the Jews will be slaughtered in the tribulation. So, according to Dispensationalism, God gathered the Jews in May 1948 just to annihilate 2/3 of them in the tribulation.
- Reinstitution of animal sacrifices? According to your view, the reinstitution of animal sacrifices will be to "memorialize" and look back on what Christ did. The clear problem with this is that Ezek. 43:19-21 states, "a bull will be offered as a "sin" offering and it will make "atonement." If this is the future temple during the Millennium, that would be utter blasphemy. Christ destroyed the temple in 70 AD for that exact reason.
- The prince in Ezek. 45-46 CANNOT be the Messiah because, "On that day the prince shall provide for HIMSELF and all the people of the land a bull as a SIN offering." (Ezek. 45:22). To say the prince is the Messiah is pure blasphemy.
Naturally, in this forum, I cannot list all the issues but just some key points. These are just some major points where Dispensationalism has it entirely wrong.
@@jlewis8145 In a dispensationalist worldview what quarrel does God have with todays Israel???...the 70 weeks were for thy people and thy HOLY CITY...Jesus said in Matthew 24 (which is clearly for 1st century Judea) that let all those in JUDEA...flee.
Todays Israel :
.were never called a wicked and adulterous generation
never told Pilate to crucify Jesus and let his blood be on our hands and our children
.were never told by Jesus that all the righteous blood shed on the earth would be on THIS generation
.Are not guilty of covenant unfaithfulness because there is no longer any covenant
I used to be a premillennial dispensationalist as well...know that Im out of it I see just how little it adds up.
I'm a classic premill, who has a post-mill aproach to living before Christ's return, with a positive view of the flourishing of God's bride and church amid the negative, growing darkness of the world around. I don't like the word rapture and prefer the resurrection of the dead. When Christ returns to rule, we, the bride, will be resurrected, the dead in Christ first and then whoever is left alive after the onslaught of the man of lawlessness.
I find when talking to a lot of my friends from different positions that they often never respond to my actual position and perspective but to what they've read about pre millenialism in a book/classroom.
Something I really respect about post millenialists is that you guys understand the call of the gospel is to bring both spiritual and earthly blessings in this present life, only I believe the fullness of those earthly blessings do not come until Christ returns and sets up His literal, physical rule and reign on earth, in an era of righteousness where the saints will rule, literally, over our enemies, where evil is subdued until the final day where Satan is released and thrown into the lake of fire, along with the unrighteous, most of whom are part of the second resurrection, being judged outside of God's grace.
The insight towards the end about putting on jerseys to see who's on which team was really helpful
Thanks!
I keep watching this! Fascinating, it just makes so much sense 💡
This just makes me want to study more
A wonderful book to read is David Chilton’s Paradise Restored if you are just coming to study the post-mil view. Ken Gentry wrote his doctrinal thesis on the dating of the book of Revelation titled Before Jerusalem Fell-The dating of the book of Revelation. I encourage you brothers and sisters to avail yourself of these books. Christian you are not part of the terminal generation. You are part of claiming the crown rights of Christ to every sphere of this world. Our joy is seeing ourselves coming under his authority and then in our acts of obedience our towns, cities, counties, states, countries, nations coming under his authority.
Thank you for this
It warms my heart to see the Preterist perspective(s) introduced to a larger audience. So much so that I don’t even mind that it’s (pre-ordained to be 😅) coming through a Calvinist 😊.
Here is the Original Semitic Text. Please take One Minute and READ This
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Praise___YaH you could have just typed “I believe the modalist heresy” and saved everyone some time.
@@MansterBear
Undoing thousands of years of lies, that was as short as possible. Let’s try these 3 verses
Isaiah 42:8
"I am YaH; that is my Name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.
Isaiah 43:11
I, I am YAH, and there is no other Savior but Me.
Isaiah 45:5
I am YaH, and there is none else.
@@Praise___YaH I already read the whole thing the first time. Then I saw it like three more times copy pasted on unrelated comments. It’s kind of like the prosperity gospel guys who paste the same “I had a vision for you, contact me on what’s app” wall of texts.
@@MansterBear
Sir, I spent alot of time learning and writing that down. I have to share with 350 Million people, so if you’ve seen it more than once, now you know why
20:58 - 21:39 added with the sands of the sea and stars in the heavens comment. Now think fractals. Beyond your wildest dreams. Fantastic news! God is magnificent!
All so true. This is the Holiest of days.
Helpfully informative. Thanks.
There has never been a time that Jesus was Not King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He doesn't change. HE IS GOD ETERNALLY.
Great conversation, dug this. 👍🏻
Thanks Brian!
YESHUA Jesus christ not to destroy the old GARMENT but to fulfill. YESHUA Jesus christ will give new SONGS according to God's Will and for truth and peace reunite for good.
I've made the switch to Postmill over the past 12 months or so. Like you guys, my first introduction to this topic was Dispensationalist Premill (Tim LaHaye style, ha). Still learning. Great video!
Have you listened to John MacArthur and Chuck Missler on pre mil?
@@danielwarton5343 yes. I was premil for most of my time as a Christian.
@@IrresistibleTruth ok.
My brother, check out Amillenialism, it is worth exploring further, even if you are lightly aware of it. It is more accurately described as "Realized Millenialism". The reign is right now, if you choose to participate in it. No question that the scriptures state that Christ brought with him the Kingdom of God. This is the belief of the vast majority of churches over the past 2,000 years, whether Roman Catholic, Orthodox - even most branches of Protestanism.
@@George-ur8ow yes the more I learn about amillennialism the more I see it clearly to be correct. It's amazing
You have a lot of good points being a Christian can be so confusing with all these different people on UA-cam behind the pulpit all over the place with all kinds of opinions hopefully we're not getting away from the simple gospel of being truly saved and born again and being the remnant of the Lord and bringing others to the kingdom and saving people from the fires of hell I don't agree at all I've been saved since 1971 filled with God's holy spirit and a normal way and unfortunately there's so much false stock than 75% of the church is messed up I'm not sure who's really going to heaven and who the remnant is but I believe there will be a thousand year rain just like the Bible says but hopefully we can't let these doctrines separate those that are his true disciples
I’ve been a premil in the past, but in last 13 yrs have questions it and have leaned toward post. I don’t have all the facts memorized, I’m still gleaning. I know there is a blessing in searching for it.❤️ This I know for sure Jesus wins. What is a good book that views most of the popular views. Does anyone know? Very good discussion. Jeff talks fast, so I have to watch it again...
Preterism, Futurism, Historicism.
Amillennialism, Postmillennialism, Dispensational Futurist Premillennialism, Historic Premillennialism, Heavenly Premillennialism.
Which is correct?
Which is false?
Can't all be correct.
The Reformers were Historicists.
They were NOT Futurists, nor were they Preterists.
Two different Jesuits (as part of the Roman Catholic counter-Reformation) first systematized the Futurist and Preterist schools of prophetic interpretation in order to combat the Protestant's view of Bible prophecy: Historicism.
Most were Amil. Some were Premil. (just not Dispensational Premil, since that system wasn't invented until the 19th century).
I've got a couple videos on the subject (poorly made), they might be helpful.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
Alan Kurshner
@@jamietownsend3677 Does he temporally separate the Rapture from the 2nd Advent?
Beautiful video. I loved it.
I absolutely enjoyed watching two good and very passionate brothers being completely wrong on the issue. Loved it. 🙂
Right there with you brother.
How were they wrong? Do you mean to say your an Amillenial?
What are they wrong about? I've gotten different definitions on what the three mean. Do awes believe in a mill.? I lean more towards premil. Still a New Christian and trying to navigate is tougher then I thought. I DO not however believe in a pretrib rapture I believe the gathering of the Saints and 2nd coming is 1 in same day ? Like I said I'm still new and pray for decernment. There is so much division and issues in the church today issues I believe are way more concerning like homosexuality and the very Gospel itself is the issue of where you stand on the mill. Something I should worry about figuring put right now? I grew up in a church that believed in a pretrib rupture however I have completely dropped that belief 100% after much much research and prayers, but I'm still trying to sort through all of this, I'm still in air with an actual domination. I just know that Christ is Lord , He died for our sins and rose again on the 3rd day where He ascended , I believe in the God head and that we are saved by Faith alone but I also believe true faith comes with a passion to keep to the Laws but an actual and true faith comes with a constant state of repentance for we are sinners by nature. Idk praying I can just walk in a way that's pleasing to The Kingdom of Yahweh
Please share your concerns as you weren't specific Can I assume that you are both passionate about your position and can argue it effectively?
explain -
as a post trib. I wanted to believe there was a pre trib, but after studying, and praying, and discernment. and combat in Iraq. I've taken a Post position....
Excellent interview and information!
Loved this interview guys. There was a part of it where you discussed what was mentioned in Joel about “last days” and conflating it with New Testament passages about society, growing worse in the “last days” but you never really landed on which passages referred to the end of the apostolic age versus the end of human history. If you could do a subsequent episode that drills down on those elements, it would be a huge boon to the amil/post-mil position where the ground gets shaky. Perhaps it’s because there’s no way to answer the question in a neat and tidy fashion? Also, I don’t think either of you addressed Christ’s physical second coming at any point in this interview, although you made inference to it regarding his glorious bodily return, but not with regard to “the last days” distinction(s). I’m curious what you would do with Revelation 20:7 and if you think perhaps we are in that season of time within Christ’s symbolic thousand year reign when Satan is released for a little while to deceive the nations?
The "Last Day's " of Old Covenant Israel" see Gary North "Rapture Fever"
The ultimate team sport... Humanity!!!
Why is this only 1:15:20 long? I could easily listen to this stuff for hours! 🔥🔥🔥❤️
Hahahaha. Agreed.
The bible archeology needs to be taught in schools. Proof against people being ape men needs to be and explain scientifically in schools also we have the proof, now we need to fight to make it happen. Then a major change will happen. Someone with the educational criteria should do it. Hint hint to those with the educational background in this area.
This epispde is so good!
I'm slowly liking this postmill position
Jesus said he comes immediately after the tribulation… His words not mine
YES. Which is why I think the rapture happens then, not before the tribulation.
@@FirefighterAliveJC
I'll take Christ's words over ALL interpretations. Including the writings of Paul. What Paul writes mirrors Christ except Christ clearly says when. Not the day, or the hour, but immediately after tribulation.
@@tylerw8216 Unfortunately there are believers who don't understand that the apostles and all believers were and are called to be witnesses of Jesus.
I was like Jeff,when God first saved me I landed in a premill, freewill ,Baptist church and boy ,I thought I had it all figured out but when The Holy Spirit caused to believe the reformed faith,I had to repent and I'm still not sure about the end times.
My introduction to postimilliannialism... Traditionally pre-mill... but understand we can’t be dogmatic in this issue... I think I might be a convert- LOL! More to study... and see what the scriptures reveal... Mostly thankful Christ, our King, is presently ruling and reigning.
YESHUA Jesus christ HOSTS you are beloved. Because Jesus christ foundation is 1st. Love God all our minds, hearts, and souls 2nd. Love thy neighbors as thyself truly without ceasing but delight. As far as I know? It's the only place for our youngs innocents sons and daughters. The foundation of the kingdom of God and its righteousness. Beloved, the true HOSTS and Own of YESHUA. Are TRUE LOVERS OF GOD AND NEIGHBORS. UPHOLDERS OF GOD'S WILL. SOMETIMES I WONDER IF ALL TECHNOLOGY, SCIENCE, NOR ANY THING WE CREATE NOR MOLDED BY OUR HANDS. IS BASED UPON THESE 2.
@@oliverjamito9902 Yeah but you didn't really cover the texts.
@@ghostl1124 all dry GROUNDS is a house of prayers beloved. FEETS resting upon 1st. Love God 2nd. Love thy neighbors as thyself. Nevertheless you can find better foundation than these 2 beloved? Is like what is the true meaning of utterance beloved? Is like why talked nor uttered words at all beloved? For what? Is like how can you and me show off to God without our neighbors beloved?
The rapture debate sees God treating alive Saints differently than those who are asleep, why is that ?...Does The Bible teach that Church Age Saints who are asleep will avoid Gods wrath and similar ?
It's making me reassess my thoughts on this. My thanks.
One more thought. I again what to emphasize that Jeff Durbin was excellent in discussing Scriptural support for his position. I especially appreciate his honesty and humility about how he moved from a pre to a post position and the clarity of his discussion. Also, I too, have been greatly influenced by R.C. Sproul's teaching on the end times, and found it helpful to be reminded of R.C.'s solid theology in this area. I would, though, like to express concern about Joel Webbon's "team" and "points" language. As the body of Christ whose charge is to love our neighbors and even our enemies, are we supposed to seek to score "points" for Team God? What if an unbeliever listened to that language? Where in the New Testament is that language used? Yes, there are sports metaphors in Scripture, but the focus is on Christians to run the race well, run to win, trust God in wrestling with spiritual powers etc. I only mention this matter because it , and the all-guy language in my previous comment, seriously detracts from Jeff Durbin's lucid and extremely edifying teaching about millennial positions.
Great explanation!! Although I’m amillennial I still enjoy his interpretation .
There is also FAI Joel Richardson who holds a mid to post trib view that is very interesting so far as he is putting out videos this year on it re: rapture/eschatology/Revelation/The Day of The Lord, etc... He touches on the church not escaping but persevering through tribulations and persecutions. Just started viewing because I wanted to hear other views on eschatology. Found this video a good conversation. Still have questions. Don't we all on this subject??
Love yall!
I really wanted to hear the bonus question answer because that’s what I’m dealing with right now at my church.
Apology church has many videos about this.
Peter addresses the last days, but also makes the point of a day being equal to a thousand yrs
There's God's perspective and man's perspective...
its funny to see the previous episode with jeff has 10k views and this video has 40k views because it says rapture in the title LOL
You got me.😉
AMEN
That was great!
It seems to me that preterism doesn’t allow for dual fulfillment, which God displays throughout the OT & NT. He who was, and is & is to come, does His work throughout creation.
And he repeats things to show that he did them, and they weren't by chance. Jesus lists a lot of stuff that didn't happen in 70 AD, and when he refers to the Last Days, he's referring to the period of the church between his death and his return for his bride, the church. It's a 2000 yr period, and a lot happens, and not all at once. But when the church age ends, Chapter 4 Revelation says "A door opened up in heaven and a loud voice called down saying "Come up here!" and you do not see the bride/church on earth for the rest of the tribulation, which is the 70th week of Daniel.
@@backyardcluck I’ve heard this argument many times. The saints in Revelation, and the elect, are His church. Just like in the rest of the New Testament. Just because He doesn’t use the term ekklesia after the letters to the churches doesn’t mean they are gone.
@@backyardcluck 2Thess2 vs 3 clearly states that the rapture & Day of the Lord do not happen until after the midpoint of the 70th week.
@@jamietownsend3677 That was the simplest of many many examples why there has to be a "catching up". There are around 22 "raptures" in the BIble, from Enoch and Elijah to Jesus taken to the roof of the Temple. It's not weird. And in Jesus' day, for 200 yrs before and after he came, EVERYONE had read and understood the Book of Enoch, which also describes activity by fallen angels. It's not in the Bible because canon scriptures focus purely on Jesus and his mission. But Enoch is quoted, 1/3 of Jude is quotes, and considered reliable by NT writers. Also, 2 Thess 2 is slightly mistranslated and should be read to understand that a physical removal of God's bride MUST happen before the wrath of God comes down on gentiles and Jews who reject him. Up til now??? NO MASS REPENTANCE OF THE JEWS. That is a future event. And it's coming soon! YEEHAW!
@@jamietownsend3677 That's not consistent with the referral by Jesus over and over again to his Galilean disciples that he would return for his Bride at an unknown hour, and take her to his father's house. Search for the latest vids out on the Galilean wedding tradition. It will blow your mind. The bride is lifted up and "flown home to the Father's House" by the groomsmen. She does not walk there. It is NOT BY HUMAN EFFORT that we who await his arrival are taken to the father's house.
Humbly ask Jesus he will answer you
Sooooo good!!! 🥰
Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE is Our Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
I don’t see how people think things are getting worse. Do they just not consider how life was 500 + years ago?? Slavery is mostly abolished, more democratic nations than ever in history, the convenience, comfort and ease of life because of leaps in science and technology, freedom, etc.
What’s worse, being alive in the 21st century or being alive in 1st century? Or any past century.
Well more abortions, transgenderism and the mutilating of children. More crime, the Bible talks of a great falling away, which is happening all the time . Preachers falling left and right along with whole churches being taught heresy. More wars... more demonic activity. Do you live under a rock?
This interview is absolutely fantastic.
As if I wasn’t already convinced that postmil is biblical!
I am curious what is the difference between dispy premil and historical premil?
There isn’t just one dispy eschatology. There are quite a few views (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, etc…)
The primary difference would be the hermeneutical methods of the two perspectives. The dispy would hold to a ‘literal hermeneutic’. It seems to me this is derived from the foundation that Israel is distinct from the church. This is also why they accuse other perspectives of holding to ‘replacement theology. (That the church replaces Israel)
@@PostmillhighlightsYou are right and dispensational pastors especially Pastor Jack Hibbs from Calvary Chapel will accuse other views of Revelation as holding to "Replacement Theology" that the Christian church replaces Israel. Pastor Jack Hibbs even has a UA-cam video with his buddies accusing others of "Replacement Theology" see here ua-cam.com/video/d5HV4h6PD54/v-deo.html. Of course, Pastor Jack Hibbs will never hold an eschatological debate between his premill view versus a postmill view. Bible teacher Steve Gregg responded with his UA-cam video here ua-cam.com/video/pEgFhaB7hNs/v-deo.html to Pastor Jack Hibbs and buddies video
Historic Premillennialism differs from Dispensational Premillennialism in that the latter carries with it a Futurist interpretation of Bible prophecy (esp., the books of Daniel and Revelation): Pre-Trib. Rapture; 7-Year Period of Tribulation; Future Antichrist person; Israel...etc.
Historic Premillennialists, like Dr. John Gill (1697-1771; a Reformed Baptist scholar), are not Futurists; Gill, and the vast majority of Reformation and post-Reformation scholars were HISTORICISTS; they were not Preterists; nor were they Futurists.
Historicism is what is embedded in historic, Reformed Confessions of Faith like the Westminster and 1689 Baptist Confessions.
These are NOT Preteristic, nor Futurist Confessions of Faith.
Questions on this? Let me know.
However, BOTH Historic Premillennialists and Dispensational Premillennialists agree that the 1,000 year Millennium will have Christ reigning 'on the earth' during the Millennium.
The failure of both systems is that they see the reign of Christ as taking place 'on the earth' during the Millennium.
When, in fact, Christ and all the saints from all time (including OT saints) will be reigning in HEAVEN during the Millennium, while the earth is desolate...void of life; only Satan and the fallen angels will be on it (miserable, with no one left to deceive for the 1,000 years).
Only AFTER the Millennium will the New/Heavenly Jerusalem descend from heaven down to earth; the wicked will be resurrected; Satan will deceive them once again; they will try to take the New/Heavenly Jerusalem by force, and God will rain down fire and brimstone on them in Judgement...destroying them all.
The saints, with Christ as King, will inherit the New Earth (newly regenerated) for all eternity.
Questions?
Let's talk.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
@@ryangallmeier6647 that is helpful. So a historic premillennialism wouldn’t believe in a rapture or 7 year tribulation then?
@@ThereforeGo Most probably not.
As an Heavenly Premillennialist myself, I do believe the Bible teaches a Rapture, but only at the 2nd Advent of Christ, not before it.
Also, I would argue that there is no such thing as a 7-year period of tribulation.
The idea of a 7-year tribulation period is taken from a misreading/misinterpretation of Dan. 9:24-27.
But, Dispensational Futurists apparently can't do simple math because their starting date for the first 69 weeks (483 literal years) doesn't match up with the date of the Triumphal Entry and subsequent Crucifixion of Christ.
I am also an Historicist; and I refute as false the Preterist and Futurist schools of prophetic interpretation (both systematized by two different Jesuits in the time of the Reformation in order to try and steer men's minds from the truth of Bible prophecy).
Questions about this?
Let me know.
I also have a couple videos on the subject if you're interested.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
You mentioned the state of Israel. How do you look at God's relationship with that people? Does He still have a plan for them, or has He broken His covenant with them? Jeremiah 31:35- 37.
I’ve had the same revelation when I read the Bible. It aligns with post-mil as I read it. I do attend a Calvary Chapel church where they teach the church is gone after Revelation chapter 3. I see the saints going through adversity not that it’s removed. How should we view the church in the book of Revelation after chapter 3?
No chance that the church is removed. Impossible. No one church or denomination interpreted things in that manner until the 19th century. That belief originates in JN Darby and C. Scofield, it is not even 2 centuries old. Look into this a bit more and see how wicked those men were. No good fruit can come from such rotten trees.
Check out Voddie Baucham’s study series on Revelation on You Tube
The Millennium is the Day of the Lord.
In amillennialism, where does it fit in where Satan is bound for the thousand years? Where and how does that fit in regarding the amill view?
Really, another hour plus long video trying to debunk the pre-trib Rapture ?
I can debunk yours in 5 seconds: Paul said, "Then WE which are alive and remain shall be caught up together..."
Paul considered even himself in the potential number of those to be raptured BEFORE God's wrath!
Sorry, Jeff, I find this interpretation (postmillenialism) extremely unconvincing, but God bless you.
For Jeffs theology to work Revelation of John had to be written before 70AD
Thanks for the video, gentlemen. Is there a chance that postmillenialism can lead to dominionism (i.e. the charismatic idea of the Seven Mountain Mandate)? The exchange at the end of the video used a lot of language that seems to overlap with that movement. Can you explain the difference between a more reformed (or historically Biblical) postmillenialism and Dominionism?
Great question I thought of at that same time in the video, too!
With the charismatic movement, it’s man centered where men have to go and take the 7 mountains and influence culture and is very man centered. Whereas biblical postmil the believers go and herald the Gospel knowing that the Lord’s enemies will be made his footstool. Psalm 110:1 God does the work and we obey him.
There is a language overlap in orthodox Christianity and Mormonism as well. It does not mean one ‘leads to another.’
There are too many foundational presuppositions that collide between postmil and seven mountain for them to be considered at all similar.
From an earlier conference 👇ua-cam.com/video/JLL0GPs4ZZY/v-deo.html
Rome was known as the empire of 7 Mountains
Even the 1st century Followers thought He'd return in their time. There have been dark times in the history of the Church. That doesn't mean the end times.