I dug into decompiled sources several months ago -- these are very good guesses for what's going on, but some aren't as helpful as others. The game engine's "ticks" are independent of the FPS, and the ticks are what feel "laggy". An example of a bad 'tick' rate is when dupes are just standing somewhere kinda jittering back and forth, when there's a ton of tasks they could be doing. Fixing pathfinding is a good way to solve this, but you missed a really big one: limit what the dupes themselves can do. In the priority system, instead of double-deprioritizing tasks, just disable them. Have tasks so granular that each dupe can only do one or two things, which cuts down on the chore contention dramatically. This also cuts down on the amount of pathfinding needed, and plays really well into the infinite storage as well.
I know a lot of us are averse to it, but I set up infinite liquid and gas storage for the same performance issues. I know it's an exploit but I think a lot of players have had giant liquid pools or tons of tanks everywhere and it takes a long time and is material-intensive but after a certain number of colonies it seems more work than it's worth. I figure once you do the non-exploit stuff 8 or 9 times you earn the right to do it lol
I haven't done any testing but anecdotally it seems like GPU performance is better since it doesn't have as much rendering to take care of. Might just be the potato PC I started with though lol
The debries stacking help more because of the pathing, when you build something the pathing will check all debris to choose where to get the material from. In the DLC I'm stocking everything in Rocket Tanks they can hold a lot and don't change temperature, they also make the material unavable to dups so there is no calculation for pathing unless I make it available.
As for pathfinding, you can install transit tubes to a handful of areas around the planetoid. This drastically cuts down on path finding because dupes prefer to use the fastest method for getting from point A to B. Since tubes are almost always faster, they'll use those. Then the sim only has to calculate the path finding from the exit point to the destination point. If done correctly, this should save LOTS of calculations. As for liquids and gases, I would recommend finding a mod that significantly increases the storage capacity of the storage units. This will allow you to store both liquids and gases in them and not have to worry about all the calculations going on in the sim.
@@RaphaeIIsWatching Calculating the cost of moving through a transit tube only needs to be calculated when the transit tube network is modified. Once its built, it is constant and will not change, making it blazingly fast
There can be a big CPU / GPU difference in this game, but conveniently the things that reduce one usually reduces the other in this game. The pretty swirling colors when gasses mix are GPU. The physics of gas interacting are CPU. The graphics won't likely show you down unless you have onboard graphics like a non gaming laptop or steam deck, which use the CPU to do graphics and the math.
Very helpful info! I almost always have sweep commands running on a lower priority, and once a job is finished in an area it gets cleaned up before I move on (I can't stand debris everywhere! lol). Yet I honestly never took into consideration all of the calculations the game has to do for gasses and liquids as well. Of course, I should have, it's rather logical once you think about it, but until now I hadn't... I have some gasses to get pumping, lol. Tysmfs! Hope you has a nice week and have a great weekend. Best of wishes!
Thanks for this video! My 150 dupe game is already struggling and this (along with the comments) helped explain a lot of reasons why it may be happening. If trying these tips doesn't help, it may be time for a CPU upgrade.
One thing I saw during my playthroughs is that time behind the fog doesn't move, drastically reducing calculations the game should do. Fog can also be used to preserve reasources - nothing spoils, geysers don't errupt, critters stay alive and so on. You could, for example, save the game, dig your way into the fog to look what's behind it, then reload the save. XD
Some mods can even improve the performance. For example, the mods "conduit teleport" and "advanced storage". Those greatly decrease the amount of pipe sections on the map and сonsequently decrease calculations for liquid circles\gas squares in pipes. The second mod also potentially allows storaging all liquids and gases on the map in tanks; that saves FPS even more. Yes, it's a bit of cheating, but choosing between not really fair and laggy I'd better take the first)
One thing that really helps my starting base is to only put one material per storage bin, on sweep only. It keeps the morning lag away until I leave the base and rip apart the outside. Thanks for the tips. The ladder tip also made an impact.
Also limit piping, especially branched piping or pipe priority with filters. Liquid gas and conveyor piping all use pathfinding algorithms. Make sure you get rid of any defunct or "legacy" piping from turned off builds.
Thank you for the tips. My 10 year old MacBook pro is really struggling with ONI. My latest colony is just under 600 cycles and the frame rate is painfully slow and each save takes longer and longer and longer!
Having a bunch of Storage boxes asking for items (that is, when not using "sweep only") will tax the job queue(s) for the dupes. So keep it to "sweep only" when you can, and use only a select few boxes without. Use storage droppers (with sweep only) for large dumpsters of items. Storage boxes also exchange temperature with outside, and each item inside requires its own calculation.
Nice tips and entertaining to watch. Are you planning to make a video on storage/automation. Saw that in this video but I don’t know howto set that up in my run.
Firstly, I would like to thank you for the nice video, secondly, thanks to you again, this is the first time I have been able to have a run where I was able to get into atmo suits. I always wondered why people, when they had atmo suits, never vented the gasses outside their sealed off base. Just always seemed like a good idea to work in a vacuum to me.
So put the gas in to a gas reservoir, to reduce the number of squares that have to have gas calculations on them.... but what about the gases on top of the reservoir? Wouldn't it be better to put everything in vacuum except for the areas that actually need air?
I have seen people cover up the edges of the map, and i think its also for improving performance, does anyone know if it actually helps, and what's the logic behind it?
I think I’m gonna move some of my dups from my self sustaining planet to other ones just so I don’t need to take on more now also gonna take out some ladders
@@EchoRidgeGaming I've heard tiles are better i think its cause with a vacuum the game isl checking if the vacuum still is a vacuum or if it should have gasses tiles don't have that problem
Tested this already - tiles are better. Vacuum is treated as gas and needs more calculations than solid tiles. Tiles temperature becomes irrelevant very quickly after it is equalized with each other, so no more calculations are done.
great gide, but your pathfinding tip is wrong. A* algrorithm works faster when there are less of dead ends, leading to destination point. i mean dont dig single vertical vent, dig a lot.
I dug into decompiled sources several months ago -- these are very good guesses for what's going on, but some aren't as helpful as others. The game engine's "ticks" are independent of the FPS, and the ticks are what feel "laggy". An example of a bad 'tick' rate is when dupes are just standing somewhere kinda jittering back and forth, when there's a ton of tasks they could be doing.
Fixing pathfinding is a good way to solve this, but you missed a really big one: limit what the dupes themselves can do. In the priority system, instead of double-deprioritizing tasks, just disable them. Have tasks so granular that each dupe can only do one or two things, which cuts down on the chore contention dramatically. This also cuts down on the amount of pathfinding needed, and plays really well into the infinite storage as well.
These are great tips. Thank you.
So what I'm hearing is my next colony should be a single-dupe moonlet run. Excellent idea, Echo!
me and my potato pc thank you, randomly recomended wise internet man
You are most welcome, random kind internet person!
I know a lot of us are averse to it, but I set up infinite liquid and gas storage for the same performance issues. I know it's an exploit but I think a lot of players have had giant liquid pools or tons of tanks everywhere and it takes a long time and is material-intensive but after a certain number of colonies it seems more work than it's worth. I figure once you do the non-exploit stuff 8 or 9 times you earn the right to do it lol
Wait so infinite storage for gas and liquids doesn’t decrease performance
I haven't done any testing but anecdotally it seems like GPU performance is better since it doesn't have as much rendering to take care of. Might just be the potato PC I started with though lol
ok thanks
@@naturekas1019 I'd say yes, because the game only has to keep track of 9 "piles" of water as compared to an average sized water pool of 60+
This is the exact reason I changed my stance on infinite storage.
I’m an old guy, but love watching your vids. I’ve been thinking about trying the game the more I learn from you, thanks.
The debries stacking help more because of the pathing, when you build something the pathing will check all debris to choose where to get the material from. In the DLC I'm stocking everything in Rocket Tanks they can hold a lot and don't change temperature, they also make the material unavable to dups so there is no calculation for pathing unless I make it available.
Great point!
As for pathfinding, you can install transit tubes to a handful of areas around the planetoid. This drastically cuts down on path finding because dupes prefer to use the fastest method for getting from point A to B. Since tubes are almost always faster, they'll use those. Then the sim only has to calculate the path finding from the exit point to the destination point. If done correctly, this should save LOTS of calculations.
As for liquids and gases, I would recommend finding a mod that significantly increases the storage capacity of the storage units. This will allow you to store both liquids and gases in them and not have to worry about all the calculations going on in the sim.
Man, to decide which way is faster it first has to be calculated...
@RaphaeIIsWatching I was thinking the same thing 🤣
@@RaphaeIIsWatching every step dupe runs, game re-calculate but not in trasnit tubes
@@VINAGHOST Ok, this makes sense if the game calculates path once until the dup reach the tube end.
@@RaphaeIIsWatching Calculating the cost of moving through a transit tube only needs to be calculated when the transit tube network is modified. Once its built, it is constant and will not change, making it blazingly fast
There can be a big CPU / GPU difference in this game, but conveniently the things that reduce one usually reduces the other in this game. The pretty swirling colors when gasses mix are GPU. The physics of gas interacting are CPU. The graphics won't likely show you down unless you have onboard graphics like a non gaming laptop or steam deck, which use the CPU to do graphics and the math.
Great insight for folks.
Very helpful info! I almost always have sweep commands running on a lower priority, and once a job is finished in an area it gets cleaned up before I move on (I can't stand debris everywhere! lol). Yet I honestly never took into consideration all of the calculations the game has to do for gasses and liquids as well. Of course, I should have, it's rather logical once you think about it, but until now I hadn't... I have some gasses to get pumping, lol.
Tysmfs! Hope you has a nice week and have a great weekend. Best of wishes!
Thank you again for the warm wishes. You too!
Thanks for this video! My 150 dupe game is already struggling and this (along with the comments) helped explain a lot of reasons why it may be happening. If trying these tips doesn't help, it may be time for a CPU upgrade.
Genuinely liked this video because it is different and extremely helpful too
One thing I saw during my playthroughs is that time behind the fog doesn't move, drastically reducing calculations the game should do. Fog can also be used to preserve reasources - nothing spoils, geysers don't errupt, critters stay alive and so on. You could, for example, save the game, dig your way into the fog to look what's behind it, then reload the save. XD
Some mods can even improve the performance. For example, the mods "conduit teleport" and "advanced storage". Those greatly decrease the amount of pipe sections on the map and сonsequently decrease calculations for liquid circles\gas squares in pipes. The second mod also potentially allows storaging all liquids and gases on the map in tanks; that saves FPS even more. Yes, it's a bit of cheating, but choosing between not really fair and laggy I'd better take the first)
One thing that really helps my starting base is to only put one material per storage bin, on sweep only.
It keeps the morning lag away until I leave the base and rip apart the outside.
Thanks for the tips. The ladder tip also made an impact.
Also limit piping, especially branched piping or pipe priority with filters. Liquid gas and conveyor piping all use pathfinding algorithms. Make sure you get rid of any defunct or "legacy" piping from turned off builds.
Also massive sweeps lower your frames until they're done
Thanks for the adding to the tips!
Thank you for the tips. My 10 year old MacBook pro is really struggling with ONI. My latest colony is just under 600 cycles and the frame rate is painfully slow and each save takes longer and longer and longer!
I can see why jets are mostly ignored because of the path-finding calculations.
alright its time to do some gray area stuff (infinite storages)
Having a bunch of Storage boxes asking for items (that is, when not using "sweep only") will tax the job queue(s) for the dupes. So keep it to "sweep only" when you can, and use only a select few boxes without. Use storage droppers (with sweep only) for large dumpsters of items. Storage boxes also exchange temperature with outside, and each item inside requires its own calculation.
For those who have potato computer like me, I recommend don't do 1 tile stack sweep. instead make 8
Nice tips and entertaining to watch. Are you planning to make a video on storage/automation. Saw that in this video but I don’t know howto set that up in my run.
This is a good idea for a tutorial.
Firstly, I would like to thank you for the nice video, secondly, thanks to you again, this is the first time I have been able to have a run where I was able to get into atmo suits. I always wondered why people, when they had atmo suits, never vented the gasses outside their sealed off base. Just always seemed like a good idea to work in a vacuum to me.
So put the gas in to a gas reservoir, to reduce the number of squares that have to have gas calculations on them.... but what about the gases on top of the reservoir? Wouldn't it be better to put everything in vacuum except for the areas that actually need air?
I have seen people cover up the edges of the map, and i think its also for improving performance, does anyone know if it actually helps, and what's the logic behind it?
I think I’m gonna move some of my dups from my self sustaining planet to other ones just so I don’t need to take on more now also gonna take out some ladders
Why does the game pause at each morning alarm? The main issue I have is the pause takes longer and longer
that's the autosave
I'm curious why I get a lag spice at the end of night. I have my dupes on 3 different time schedules so they aren't all waking up at the same time.
Which is better for fps, vacuum or neutronium (sandbox)?
That's a great question. I'd bet vacuum still wins out.
@@EchoRidgeGaming I've heard tiles are better i think its cause with a vacuum the game isl checking if the vacuum still is a vacuum or if it should have gasses tiles don't have that problem
I wouldn't think so, because tiles do have a temperature. I like trying to investigate these things though!
Tested this already - tiles are better. Vacuum is treated as gas and needs more calculations than solid tiles. Tiles temperature becomes irrelevant very quickly after it is equalized with each other, so no more calculations are done.
Me encantó, es justo lo que buscaba
about this time?
I get 30 frames at cycle 100 :(
OP has wooden pc?
No. Why wooden though?
@@nazgu1 The first computational devices, namely the Roman abbacus, were made of wood.
@@Beef1188 Right. So, were you alluding to Echo's pc being old?
Laughs in infinite storage 😊
the path finding is annoying to deal with in my current colony
great gide, but your pathfinding tip is wrong. A* algrorithm works faster when there are less of dead ends, leading to destination point.
i mean dont dig single vertical vent, dig a lot.
My game slowing down and crashing cycle 16😂
Me at 141 days.
6:16 so JetPacks are super bad for the pathfinding or ?
Yup