He had the 3rd best fastball on his team, 3rd best change up on his team and 3rd best curveball on his team and he was the greatest pitcher in all baseball for over a decade.
I knew a guy who played against him in High School in Vegas. Of course the vast majority of HS players were vastly overmatched against him. My friend said that he faced him once, striking out on three pitches, but that the third one sounded low.
@@paulg6274 one of the best 2 seamers ever as well. Dude threw variations of each of his pitches. Similar to a Dice K or Darvish Ohtani Nestor Cortes etc
Greg Maddux is quite possibly the finest pitcher in history. I say this as a former minor league pitcher. He truly was outstanding in the way he spotted the ball and changed speeds...with movement. I used to love watching him pitch.
No matter how much praise he receives, he will always be underrated. To watch this guy day in and day out was unbelievable, especially considering the era in which he did it. His pitching stats mixed with 18 gold gloves and his longevity of excellence makes a strong case for one of the greatest players ever.
He's not so much *underrated* so much as pitchers like Maddux have never received the same level of respect as power pitchers like, say, Clemens, Seaver and Johnson. I mean, there are those that actually believe Nolan Ryan is greater (not true, of course) than Greg Maddux because of all those strikeouts and the 7 no-hitters. That lack of respect goes back to little league where a pitcher that got by with off-speed stuff was derisively called a *junk ball pitcher* .
@@jamesanthony5681 I would rather watch Johnson at his peak over Maddox, but Maddux was a better pitcher. I'd bet $100 that any BB writer would agree. If you know of a BB writer who says the opposite let me know and I will stand corrected. Until then, Maddux was the best since Koufax.
@@thekinarbo I've read some old-school writers (long dead) that would have said Johnson was the better pitcher because of the extra dimension of power and intimidation. The current writers would say Maddux. I agree with your last sentence, and outside of Warren Spahn, I can't think of a pitcher in the modern era as accomplished as Maddux, a non-power pitcher that won > 350 games , by changing speeds, working the corners and pinpoint control.
“You just can’t do it,” he said. Sometimes hitters can pick up differences in spin. They can identify pitches if there are different releases points or if a curveball starts with an upward hump as it leaves the pitcher’s hand. But if a pitcher can change speeds, every hitter is helpless, limited by human vision. “Except,” Maddux said, “for that [expletive] Tony Gwynn.”
@@StevieGPT Right. But when you hit .338 lifetime . . . you're going to mangle some pitchers pretty good. What might be more interesting is who Gwynn failed miserably against. Do you happen to know (?) I kick myself for not remembering the name of the Brooklyn pitcher (maybe Clem Labine??) who got Musial out 47 times in a row. That's really unbelievable . . .
@@one-step-beyond-1959 I didn't follow Gwynn close enough. I could kick myself because every year Tony Gwynn, after spring training closed, would participate in an expedition game against the Mobile Bay Bears (AA) and do more than just show up, he played the entire game. He was one special player.
I remember watching a couple times , already past his prime. First for the Cubs after her left Atlanta. He looked like your accountant. Yet his demeanor was calm and collected. Nothing seemed to rattle him, whether behind the count or with man on base. Then he was in a Dodger uniform against the San Francisco Giants , where he threw nine innings with about 90 pitches or less , in a game the Dodgers won by 1-0. Ground ball after ground ball , 85-89 mph on his fastball. Only then I realize Greg Maddux was a pitching savant.
@@jeffw1267 clemens , juiced or not, was not quite in Pedro and maddux's league. Not enough pitch and speed variety. This allowed those two to still win on days when their stuff was B or C. Drawing a parallel between the rocket and randy us value though.
Pedro Martinez was Baseball's all-time most Dominant Pitcher for a Decade: 1994 - 2007 / more dominant than Koufax, Clemens, Cy Young, Bob Gibson, Walter Johnson, Randy Johnson...
Pedro's peak was the best pitching that has ever been seen, and I'm a Braves fan with Maddux being my favorite all time playerr. Maddux at his best wasn't far behind though, that's for sure, and overall for his career I'd probably still say Maddux had a better career. Randy Johnson was a monster. Roger Clemens was a fucking fraud.
@@bigtuna4984 Because although he is clearly great in the ways that matter, he doesn't throw 95+ and the league only wants home runs and strikeouts. There might be another Greg Maddux or Jamie Moyer but we'd never know because he wouldn't get a chance in today's game.
Even if he didn't strike out everyone he would lead the league in groundball by making these guys swing at pitches they shouldnt. The best of my generation for sure.
His K rate was above average. He might even K more now than then since his speed would be more different from average than before. www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2016/8/11/12423936/greg-maddux-velocity-finesse-power-pitcher-no-hope-for-batters
You got that right. He wasn't a swing-and-miss pitcher but you had to swing at things you didn't want because he was such a great location pitcher and it would be a strike if you didn't swing at it. I'd love to see a stat on how he compares with other pitchers on foul balls. I'd bet he's up there, with batters trying to foul away pitches that were strikes but that that they didn't want to put into play.
Dallas Keuchel is a "pitch to contact" guy in an era when everyone strikes out. His K/9 is at 7.1 for his career, and he's doing just fine. In his prime, Maddux's K/9 was between 6.5-7.8, back when hitters struck out a third less often than they do now. In short, Maddux would be just fine today, and maybe even better.
Painting the corners. Pitching to hitters' weaknesses. World Class accuracy and control of all his pitches. Ability to throw any of his pitches at any count. = Greatest Pitcher of All-time!!
All that "Quality Start" means is that the starter kept his team in the game -- he didn't get blown out. Probably the name of the stat should be changed to something like "Pitcher Won't Immediately Be Designated for Assignment."
Watch the Chris Bryant prank, he tells him where he is gonna hit the ball, dude was schooling a current all star... this guy once said he hired Greg to paint t his house but he only painted the corners 😂😂😂😂😂😂
As a kid growing up and learning to pitch I idolized Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan and Sandy Koufax; the way they dominated the game. Now I appreciate the science and perfection that Maddox brought to the game. A true winner.
Maddux threw hard in his first two years. In his prime it dropped. But his movement, location, and knowledge of the hitters weakness' made him what he was. In his prime he would still hold his own now days.
I'd take Maddux in his prime over any pitcher since Koufax. But I'd rather watch Randy Johnson. And I'd say Ichiro was as fun to watch as anyone ever, both on offense and defense.
Astros fan from back in the day. Hated going against the Braves in the playoffs. Best of 5 series and they trot out Glavine, Maddox and Smoltz. Series were done before it started. Respect.
Had that fastball that started about 5 inches outside to a right handed hitter and at the last second came back over the paint. A beautiful thing to watch.
Greg would be amazing in any baseball era. Brilliant baseball mind. Best fielding pitcher ever. Only blemish on his career is that somehow, the Braves won only 1 World Series.
Nothing would be different. Hitters have adapted to the increase in speed more than anything else. The movement on his two-seamer, pin point control, change of speeds and complete command of 4 pitches or more would be just as lethal. Maddux’s talent was timeless.
With the grooved swings these guys have had since Little League, he'd easily lead the league in wins and ERA every year. He threw a 78 pitch complete game for heaven's sake.
Best hitters in the league have always had the ugliest swings. With a few exceptions. Grooved/Baseball card swings aren’t what puts a bat on the ball. I used to hate watching film on my swing because it’s like “What? Do you want me to react to the ball and hit it, or have a pretty MLB Network swing and miss?”
Once I had seats directly behind the on deck circle at the ballpark in Cincinnati, which is a great spot to watch pitchers work , and watched Maddux put on an exhibition of control and keeping hitters off balance. Nobody hit the ball squarely once for the entire 7 or 8 innings . Struck out 8 and almost all of them looking . I don't think he even broke a sweat.
I will say the biggest thing that probably makes modern pitching. Tougher is pretty much every guy in the line of can take you deep if you mess up, so I think it does make it slightly harder to just attack the strike zone
it was amazing watching him pitch it was like he was playing darts then you get glavine who everyone knew down and away and still couldnt get a hit LOL
Nothing like watching maddux paint the back left or front right corners of the plate with his two seam cut fastball that was 5-7 mph slower than almost all other pitchers... Mariano Rivera is the only other pitcher i can think of with that kind of accuracy.
I'll never forget my best pitching performance. I never had a good off speed pitch and this day i had a blister that gave me an excuse to not use it and it worked out. I had good communication with my catcher to make sure he set up in different spots and I painted the corners all day with my cut fastball. I was throwing maybe 75 and most other pitchers in the league threw 80-85 WITH an off speed pitch but because i was a sniper that day and pitched to weakness, they just couldn't square me up. Ended up making a huge mistake not intentionally walking their clean up hitter with 1st base open and one out in the 6th inning (we played 7). He was the only one that had squared me up previously and then he slaps a seeing eye rbi single up the middle and won by 1 run. I messed up not walking him but my coach could've told me to walk him too ughhh
Comparison: If Roger Clemens pitched a "perfect" perfect game it would be 81 pitches. If Greg Maddux pitched a "perfect" perfect game it would be 27 pitches. 'Nuff said.
I wish people would recognize that he wasn't all finesse. In his 20s, Maddog could dial it up to 93-96 too. He just had so much talent and longevity, a whole generation came to only witness his mid 30s and 40s.
No, Maddux never threw 93-96. He could dial it up to about 92 (maybe 93 on the fast gun) early on, but with so-so command. In fact, his command was iffy when he first came up, and some thought he might not have the velo to succeed long-term, even when he started to have success, believing that the fireballing Mike Harkey was the better bet (presumably those people lost their jobs in short order). In one of the old Rotisserie League Baseball annual player guides, they joked about how bad they were at predictions, pointing to their earlier warning about Maddux that “youngsters without fastballs often turn into Lary Sorensen”. (Of course, when I read that years later, I had to go look up Lary Sorensen. But I digress.)
@@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar There is Pitch F/X data showing Maddog touching 94 mph as 41 year old. It's a single pitch, and I'm not suggesting he could control it even in his youth. There is a reason scouts favored his fastball over his command when he was a prospect out of high school. My intention was to inform people that he had the ability to throw mid 90s. Most finesse/control pitchers can't even hit 90 on their best day, but Maddux had an arm capable of hitting the mid 90s.
Excellent point about a 4.50 ERA 6-inning start as not exactly being "quality." A sub-4.00 ERA is good (three runs scored two times through the batting order could also be a limit of quality).
The swing and miss mentality and 4 inning starts go hand in hand. Instead of throwing 98 and trying to get chases, throw 92 and get guys to make weak contact in the zone. That also gives pitchers the benefit of not being gassed at 82 pitches and needing Tommy John every 3 years.
The thing is, velocity is certainly important, but movement is king. Greg Maddux could make the ball dance all over the place with command. He'd be Greg Maddux still.
You are forgetting some pitchers don’t do well after the 5th inning or so. That means you don’t really have a choice but to pull him, unless you wanna give up 3 runs or whatever in the 6th or 7th.
He won I believe what 354 games and if I'm not mistaken somewhere around 70 and were complete games that will never happen again when I watched him pitch I would see the batter shake their heads so much movement late break most pictures nowadays would waste a pitch he wouldn't do that he believed in making contact rather than throwing a ball way out of the strike zone
Maddox has a case for g.o.a.t status, 4 straight CY youngs during the juicing ERA, did it without an overwhelming fastball, instead with an assortment of dominant breaking pitches and perfect placement hitting corners, like a painter
@@jow43 Thats a good point. Every hitter from the past focused on their swing, now people insult it just because we have an actual name for it. Ty Cobb didnt bat .400 3 times without taking care of his swing.
Maddux was just so dang good at painting the corners that he didn't need to go that extra inch or two to get the batters to chase balls. They either had to swing at the pitch that was going to be a called strike, or go down looking. With how whiney current batters are about called strikes, I can't even imagine how they'd react to a pitcher with Maddux level control!
The active pitcher I hear most commonly compared to Greg Maddux on pitching style is Kyle Hendricks of the Cubs. He's not having the same consistent success Maddux had at the same stage in his career--what Maddux did in his prime was one of the most dominant 4-year spans of any pitcher in MLB history, something almost impossible to match--but Kyle is doing pretty well. Oh, and don't forget that Maddux pitched his best years during the rise of the Steroids Era when juiced batters were starting to hit home runs at a record pace.
Quality Start basically measures that a Starting Pitcher didn't get Rocked and pulled early from a game. Quality: as in acceptable, not exclusively Excellent
I get a feeling the MLB in general likes fastball hot shots to bait in more veiwers. Maddux was like a chess grandmaster, doesn't look interesting on the outisde but one of the best experiences if you really observe. I loved his meta gaming with the umpires the most.
I think Maddux was being modest. His ability to control the strike zone would be good in any era. His knowledge and control gave him an edge. Lets not forget he played in an era where batters could hit to all fields. If he played today knowing a guy could only pull or go opposite field that poor guy would never get a hit other than a single of Maddux. A shift with Maddux on the mound, to easy
That’s what I don’t get about pitchers. I mean 100 pitches is like the benchmark. Once you hit that you’re done, whether it’s in the 4th inning or 8th inning. But just think how many times a pitcher actually throws the ball during a game day. How many pitches does he throw before the game starts to warm up and how how many pitches does he throw in between innings? I mean if he gets up to 90 plus pitches and the game gets to the 7th or 8th inning, he’s probably thrown 200 pitches already that day. So what’s so magical about 100 pitches?
Everyone wants to say they are babying the pitchers because they consider 5 innings the goal to get through. While it seems miniscule these pitchers aren't near as muscular nor have the ideal frame as pitchers back in the day. Back in the day they looked more like Nolan Ryan. Strong, naturally athletic, and was able to handle the abuse they threw at themselves. 110+ pitches in a starter was normal. Now we have the moneyball effect. Picking up guys who can throw real well with lots of effort put into it, but don't last near as long because they don't have the frame nor the strength to endure a much more competitive setting. The abuse these pitchers are enduring now-a-days is astonishing to say the least. To get spinrate it requires a lot of energy. Those tendons and muscles that are in the shoulder and elbows are not built for the increase in workloads let alone back in the day. Also, why not put in a reliever who is fresh rather than the batters seeing the same pitcher a 3rd time through the lineup who has pitched over 90 pitches? Plus, the starter will have a longer career. Look at Ohtani. Ideal build, strength, with velocity and movement. Look at him now. Already going through TJ. Same with Strausburg. Everyone wants to look at the greats who threw 7+ every game at 95+ FB. Those people were/are freaks of nature and are more lucky than good.
To be fair, he was a terrific control pitcher, but if Maddux looked like he was trying to paint the corner, the umps after a while decided that was where the corner was. Not unlike certain hitters known for having a good eye getting "ball" called at anything they don't swing at.
Not everyone can be a wonderful public speaker man. So you can make fun of him all you want, but Maddux won 355 games in his career, he's in the Hall of Fame, and he made over $150 Million in his career... and you didn't. 😆
That is him trying to be nice with this horrible interview. Maddux wanting the batter to put the bat on the ball? A better question would have been "how many more games could you have won if the teams you played for relied on contact hitting instead of homeruns and the sacrifice flys."
Greg would be doing the same thing: get a lot of ground balls and making hitters look even more silly because all of these hitters today are swinging at everything.
if you have lead after 5 innings you qualify for win no matter the score 6-7 innings, 3 earned runs, and the lead, thats a quality start if you losing the game thats not quality start 7-8 innings 2 earned with lead excellent start 8-9 innings 1 earned winning or losing, depending on amount of hits, dominant start 9 innings 0 earned well this is a shutout Complete game shutouts on innings after 5 on losing team is quality start
And... nearly everyone in the lineup "Ks" like a freak too... trying to hit the ball 400+ ft every swing. A guy like Maddux would exploit that to the max, and would be as great as ever.
Maddux: “it’s not as much about velocity, it’s more about locating and changing speeds”
So true
that's everything he did every outing. Locate,locate,locate then change-speed locate, repeat.
I bet I'll strike you out
Exactly the same. Carving them up.
Exactly......... you dont 'adapt' and throw 98mph...... Greg never threw over 91mph lol in the analytics era.. Maddux probably dominates more.
Maddux was a real one. A-Town bound!
Greg Maddux is my favorite pitcher of all time, you know.
I think I agree, Thomas.
I loved him and Pedro Martinez in their prime.
@Thomas Me too!
He had the 3rd best fastball on his team, 3rd best change up on his team and 3rd best curveball on his team and he was the greatest pitcher in all baseball for over a decade.
I knew a guy who played against him in High School in Vegas. Of course the vast majority of HS players were vastly overmatched against him. My friend said that he faced him once, striking out on three pitches, but that the third one sounded low.
3rd best change up? i think not. he also had the best sinker, best command and best psychology
@@paulg6274 one of the best 2 seamers ever as well. Dude threw variations of each of his pitches. Similar to a Dice K or Darvish Ohtani Nestor Cortes etc
I love Maddux too, but not over a decade... maybe 4-5 years. Pedro would have been better many of those 10 years you speak of.
But he had by far the best command of all of them and likely the best command of any pitcher in baseball history.
Greatest pitcher I ever saw. He was unhittable the greatest majority of his career. Pinpoint accuracy. A good man.
This dude could pitch into a teacup. Favorite pitcher of my generation.
Greg Maddux is quite possibly the finest pitcher in history. I say this as a former minor league pitcher. He truly was outstanding in the way he spotted the ball and changed speeds...with movement. I used to love watching him pitch.
No matter how much praise he receives, he will always be underrated. To watch this guy day in and day out was unbelievable, especially considering the era in which he did it. His pitching stats mixed with 18 gold gloves and his longevity of excellence makes a strong case for one of the greatest players ever.
I disagree. Maddux is not underrated and in the opinion of many the greatest pitcher since Koufax.
He's not so much *underrated* so much as pitchers like Maddux have never received the same level of respect as power pitchers like, say, Clemens, Seaver and Johnson. I mean, there are those that actually believe Nolan Ryan is greater (not true, of course) than Greg Maddux because of all those strikeouts and the 7 no-hitters. That lack of respect goes back to little league where a pitcher that got by with off-speed stuff was derisively called a *junk ball pitcher* .
@@jamesanthony5681
I would rather watch Johnson at his peak over Maddox, but Maddux was a better pitcher. I'd bet $100 that any BB writer would agree. If you know of a BB writer who says the opposite let me know and I will stand corrected. Until then, Maddux was the best since Koufax.
@@thekinarbo I've read some old-school writers (long dead) that would have said Johnson was the better pitcher because of the extra dimension of power and intimidation. The current writers would say Maddux. I agree with your last sentence, and outside of Warren Spahn, I can't think of a pitcher in the modern era as accomplished as Maddux, a non-power pitcher that won > 350 games , by changing speeds, working the corners and pinpoint control.
“You just can’t do it,” he said. Sometimes hitters can pick up differences in spin. They can identify pitches if there are different releases points or if a curveball starts with an upward hump as it leaves the pitcher’s hand. But if a pitcher can change speeds, every hitter is helpless, limited by human vision.
“Except,” Maddux said, “for that [expletive] Tony Gwynn.”
@Mark Oscar seriously?
@@GasGotti Gwynn was .415 lifetime hitter against Maddux.
@@StevieGPT lol yeah he crushed maddux.
@@StevieGPT Right. But when you hit .338 lifetime . . . you're going to mangle some pitchers pretty good. What might be more interesting is who Gwynn failed miserably against. Do you happen to know (?) I kick myself for not remembering the name of the Brooklyn pitcher (maybe Clem Labine??) who got Musial out 47 times in a row. That's really unbelievable . . .
@@one-step-beyond-1959 I didn't follow Gwynn close enough. I could kick myself because every year Tony Gwynn, after spring training closed, would participate in an expedition game against the Mobile Bay Bears (AA) and do more than just show up, he played the entire game. He was one special player.
I remember watching a couple times , already past his prime.
First for the Cubs after her left Atlanta. He looked like your accountant. Yet his demeanor was calm and collected. Nothing seemed to rattle him, whether behind the count or with man on base.
Then he was in a Dodger uniform against the San Francisco Giants , where he threw nine innings with about 90 pitches or less , in a game the Dodgers won by 1-0. Ground ball after ground ball , 85-89 mph on his fastball.
Only then I realize Greg Maddux was a pitching savant.
One of the best ever. Loved to see him pitch a ball game!
MadDog!! The greatest
You know
Greg, Pedro and Randy were all amazing. Those three were the best of their generation.
I'm pretty sure they'd be eating most of the modern day hitters alive considering their lack of plate discipline.
Roger Clemens was by far the best. But was he a cheater? That's the problem with Clemens.
@@jeffw1267 clemens , juiced or not, was not quite in Pedro and maddux's league. Not enough pitch and speed variety. This allowed those two to still win on days when their stuff was B or C. Drawing a parallel between the rocket and randy us value though.
Pedro Martinez was Baseball's all-time most Dominant Pitcher for a Decade: 1994 - 2007 / more dominant than Koufax, Clemens, Cy Young, Bob Gibson, Walter Johnson, Randy Johnson...
Pedro's peak was the best pitching that has ever been seen, and I'm a Braves fan with Maddux being my favorite all time playerr. Maddux at his best wasn't far behind though, that's for sure, and overall for his career I'd probably still say Maddux had a better career. Randy Johnson was a monster. Roger Clemens was a fucking fraud.
Great pitcher, great fielder, he was my favorite pitcher to watch. He would have been great in any era.
He would dominate, but also he wouldn't even be drafted
Captain Trechabomb why wouldn’t he have been drafted?
@@bigtuna4984 Because although he is clearly great in the ways that matter, he doesn't throw 95+ and the league only wants home runs and strikeouts. There might be another Greg Maddux or Jamie Moyer but we'd never know because he wouldn't get a chance in today's game.
Captain Trechabomb he threw 95+ when he was drafted.
@@bigtuna4984 For real? I remember him being a solid 87-89 when I saw him but I wasn't alive yet when he was drafted so I could be wrong.
@@captaintrechabomb982 yeah, early career he was a power pitcher, he changed his strategy to being a control pitcher to be more effective.
Even if he didn't strike out everyone he would lead the league in groundball by making these guys swing at pitches they shouldnt. The best of my generation for sure.
he had such great movement,mad scientist out there,would work anytime!
His K rate was above average. He might even K more now than then since his speed would be more different from average than before.
www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2016/8/11/12423936/greg-maddux-velocity-finesse-power-pitcher-no-hope-for-batters
You got that right. He wasn't a swing-and-miss pitcher but you had to swing at things you didn't want because he was such a great location pitcher and it would be a strike if you didn't swing at it. I'd love to see a stat on how he compares with other pitchers on foul balls. I'd bet he's up there, with batters trying to foul away pitches that were strikes but that that they didn't want to put into play.
Dallas Keuchel is a "pitch to contact" guy in an era when everyone strikes out. His K/9 is at 7.1 for his career, and he's doing just fine.
In his prime, Maddux's K/9 was between 6.5-7.8, back when hitters struck out a third less often than they do now.
In short, Maddux would be just fine today, and maybe even better.
this aged like milk. keichel has been shit for years.
@@tommyfu9271 Yup, almost like the multimillion dollar scouting departments and player development departments know what they're doing.
He'd strike out 300 a season with .90 ERA the way players swing at everything nowadays
You know
Yep
Painting the corners.
Pitching to hitters' weaknesses.
World Class accuracy and control of all his pitches.
Ability to throw any of his pitches at any count.
= Greatest Pitcher of All-time!!
He'd actually pitch complete games because his pitching count would be low.
@@AlexZander688 Maybe. I'd have to say that he's the most accurate pitcher that I am aware of.
All that "Quality Start" means is that the starter kept his team in the game -- he didn't get blown out. Probably the name of the stat should be changed to something like "Pitcher Won't Immediately Be Designated for Assignment."
It means the pitcher had 4 or less earned runs.
@@Nesto38 A quality start is defined as 6 innings and 3 or less earned runs. That's an ERA of 4.50. Hardly stellar stuff.
So a "quality start" is them doing their job...they why-they're-there and what they're being paid to do. Like a barista or store clerk...same thing.
Watch the Chris Bryant prank, he tells him where he is gonna hit the ball, dude was schooling a current all star... this guy once said he hired Greg to paint t his house but he only painted the corners 😂😂😂😂😂😂
As a kid growing up and learning to pitch I idolized Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan and Sandy Koufax; the way they dominated the game. Now I appreciate the science and perfection that Maddox brought to the game. A true winner.
Maddux threw hard in his first two years. In his prime it dropped. But his movement, location, and knowledge of the hitters weakness' made him what he was. In his prime he would still hold his own now days.
Maddux makes it sound so easy. Changing speeds while maintaining good location and similar arm speed/angle is insanely hard, at any level.
One of my two all time favorite players. Him as a pitcher and Ichiro as a hitter/position player.
I'd take Maddux in his prime over any pitcher since Koufax. But I'd rather watch Randy Johnson.
And I'd say Ichiro was as fun to watch as anyone ever, both on offense and defense.
Astros fan from back in the day. Hated going against the Braves in the playoffs. Best of 5 series and they trot out Glavine, Maddox and Smoltz. Series were done before it started. Respect.
Houston was a very respectable team in that era... glad to have lived in Atlanta those years even though they only brought one WS home.
Bagwell and biggio were always so scary to go against
I could listen to him all day
Had that fastball that started about 5 inches outside to a right handed hitter and at the last second came back over the paint. A beautiful thing to watch.
Superb comment on the Quality Start standard.
Greg would be amazing in any baseball era. Brilliant baseball mind. Best fielding pitcher ever. Only blemish on his career is that somehow, the Braves won only 1 World Series.
Winning one is all it takes to complete a career especially in sports like Baseball and Football where you rely so much on your teammates to win.
Nothing would be different. Hitters have adapted to the increase in speed more than anything else. The movement on his two-seamer, pin point control, change of speeds and complete command of 4 pitches or more would be just as lethal. Maddux’s talent was timeless.
With the grooved swings these guys have had since Little League, he'd easily lead the league in wins and ERA every year. He threw a 78 pitch complete game for heaven's sake.
Best hitters in the league have always had the ugliest swings. With a few exceptions. Grooved/Baseball card swings aren’t what puts a bat on the ball. I used to hate watching film on my swing because it’s like “What? Do you want me to react to the ball and hit it, or have a pretty MLB Network swing and miss?”
Still the best. Loved watching games when pitched. He put on a clinic every outing.
Once I had seats directly behind the on deck circle at the ballpark in Cincinnati, which is a great spot to watch pitchers work , and watched Maddux put on an exhibition of control and keeping hitters off balance. Nobody hit the ball squarely once for the entire 7 or 8 innings . Struck out 8 and almost all of them looking . I don't think he even broke a sweat.
Maddux would be the greatest pitcher of all time. Hell he is In the talk already
Maddux, Johnson and Martinez were the best of their era, for sure.
Paul WT Very true!
@@jimmysgarage9068 maddux to me Is the greatest of all time especially to all the guys he pitched too
Dude had pinpoint control. He could throw any pitch where ever and when ever he wanted.
I will say the biggest thing that probably makes modern pitching. Tougher is pretty much every guy in the line of can take you deep if you mess up, so I think it does make it slightly harder to just attack the strike zone
"3 singles to score"
As a cardinals fan I have NOT seen that in a looooong while
THE GOAT
it was amazing watching him pitch it was like he was playing darts then you get glavine who everyone knew down and away and still couldnt get a hit LOL
He was so consistent in his fundamentals, every pitch looked the same, until the ball got about halfway to the plate and it started to move.
The Braves Hall of Fame Trio of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz are the most dominating pitching trio
Always hated the Braves, but for some reason always just loved Maddux.
Best pitcher I ever saw.
Nothing like watching maddux paint the back left or front right corners of the plate with his two seam cut fastball that was 5-7 mph slower than almost all other pitchers... Mariano Rivera is the only other pitcher i can think of with that kind of accuracy.
Nothing a location pitcher loves more then a batter swinging for the fences on every pitch.
The greatest pitcher of all time
best pitcher Ive ever seen
Quality start is a better star than “win” but they need to tweek the criteria
Maddux was a monster.....the best location pitcher the braves ever had, painted corners like Da Vinci
I'll never forget my best pitching performance. I never had a good off speed pitch and this day i had a blister that gave me an excuse to not use it and it worked out. I had good communication with my catcher to make sure he set up in different spots and I painted the corners all day with my cut fastball. I was throwing maybe 75 and most other pitchers in the league threw 80-85 WITH an off speed pitch but because i was a sniper that day and pitched to weakness, they just couldn't square me up. Ended up making a huge mistake not intentionally walking their clean up hitter with 1st base open and one out in the 6th inning (we played 7). He was the only one that had squared me up previously and then he slaps a seeing eye rbi single up the middle and won by 1 run. I messed up not walking him but my coach could've told me to walk him too ughhh
Maddux threw how many complete games with less than 100 pitches?
76
@@stang02boy Damn,
I think with bus control and the way teams play shifts more he would be even better
Comparison: If Roger Clemens pitched a "perfect" perfect game it would be 81 pitches. If Greg Maddux pitched a "perfect" perfect game it would be 27 pitches. 'Nuff said.
I wish people would recognize that he wasn't all finesse. In his 20s, Maddog could dial it up to 93-96 too. He just had so much talent and longevity, a whole generation came to only witness his mid 30s and 40s.
No, Maddux never threw 93-96. He could dial it up to about 92 (maybe 93 on the fast gun) early on, but with so-so command. In fact, his command was iffy when he first came up, and some thought he might not have the velo to succeed long-term, even when he started to have success, believing that the fireballing Mike Harkey was the better bet (presumably those people lost their jobs in short order). In one of the old Rotisserie League Baseball annual player guides, they joked about how bad they were at predictions, pointing to their earlier warning about Maddux that “youngsters without fastballs often turn into Lary Sorensen”. (Of course, when I read that years later, I had to go look up Lary Sorensen. But I digress.)
@@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar There is Pitch F/X data showing Maddog touching 94 mph as 41 year old. It's a single pitch, and I'm not suggesting he could control it even in his youth. There is a reason scouts favored his fastball over his command when he was a prospect out of high school. My intention was to inform people that he had the ability to throw mid 90s. Most finesse/control pitchers can't even hit 90 on their best day, but Maddux had an arm capable of hitting the mid 90s.
Excellent point about a 4.50 ERA 6-inning start as not exactly being "quality." A sub-4.00 ERA is good (three runs scored two times through the batting order could also be a limit of quality).
2 seamer!
up and in, down and away. put a little on, take a little off. it worked then it works now. it`s called pitching.
With all these Mercedes-Benz logos, you'd think the sports being discussed were those being played at the 1936 Olympics.
Here’s a stat to chew on:
Between 1953 and 1954 Robin Roberts COMPLETED 28 straight games
Imagine a better world where the best pitchers aren't all paid to go to the same team.
The swing and miss mentality and 4 inning starts go hand in hand.
Instead of throwing 98 and trying to get chases, throw 92 and get guys to make weak contact in the zone. That also gives pitchers the benefit of not being gassed at 82 pitches and needing Tommy John every 3 years.
The thing is, velocity is certainly important, but movement is king. Greg Maddux could make the ball dance all over the place with command. He'd be Greg Maddux still.
You are forgetting some pitchers don’t do well after the 5th inning or so. That means you don’t really have a choice but to pull him, unless you wanna give up 3 runs or whatever in the 6th or 7th.
He won I believe what 354 games and if I'm not mistaken somewhere around 70 and were complete games that will never happen again when I watched him pitch I would see the batter shake their heads so much movement late break most pictures nowadays would waste a pitch he wouldn't do that he believed in making contact rather than throwing a ball way out of the strike zone
Depends on the umps. If they give him the batters box to batters box zone like they did in Atlanta he'd be the same.
Maddox has a case for g.o.a.t status, 4 straight CY youngs during the juicing ERA, did it without an overwhelming fastball, instead with an assortment of dominant breaking pitches and perfect placement hitting corners, like a painter
The Best Pitcher Ever. No steroids needed like clemens and all of them
I grew up in times where a 4.50 ERA was horrible. Anything less than 4.00 was decent and less than 3.00 was excellent
Lol. He would make a mockery of those launch angles.
Nothing wrong with "launch angle" . Ted Williams taught that approach.
@@jow43 Thats a good point. Every hitter from the past focused on their swing, now people insult it just because we have an actual name for it. Ty Cobb didnt bat .400 3 times without taking care of his swing.
I’d have to go back and look at his stats but I feel like he did have swing and miss stuff. Or maybe it was watch strike 3 stuff.
I remember the pink 2 story house
Maddux was just so dang good at painting the corners that he didn't need to go that extra inch or two to get the batters to chase balls. They either had to swing at the pitch that was going to be a called strike, or go down looking.
With how whiney current batters are about called strikes, I can't even imagine how they'd react to a pitcher with Maddux level control!
The active pitcher I hear most commonly compared to Greg Maddux on pitching style is Kyle Hendricks of the Cubs. He's not having the same consistent success Maddux had at the same stage in his career--what Maddux did in his prime was one of the most dominant 4-year spans of any pitcher in MLB history, something almost impossible to match--but Kyle is doing pretty well.
Oh, and don't forget that Maddux pitched his best years during the rise of the Steroids Era when juiced batters were starting to hit home runs at a record pace.
Maddux used "Judo" to get batters out for over 15yrs. Get a hitter to use his own strength to cause his own out. Genius...
The surgeon
exactly!
Quality Start basically measures that a Starting Pitcher didn't get Rocked and pulled early from a game. Quality: as in acceptable, not exclusively Excellent
I think Greg would be more dominant today. People can hit the ball harder, but they have trouble hitting slower stuff than 92-99.
If Kyle Hendricks can do it so could Maddux. Their stuff if pretty similar
"its not so much velocity, its location and the ability to change speeds."
Young players need to hear that. More finesse less tommy john!
I get a feeling the MLB in general likes fastball hot shots to bait in more veiwers. Maddux was like a chess grandmaster, doesn't look interesting on the outisde but one of the best experiences if you really observe. I loved his meta gaming with the umpires the most.
I think Maddux was being modest. His ability to control the strike zone would be good in any era. His knowledge and control gave him an edge. Lets not forget he played in an era where batters could hit to all fields. If he played today knowing a guy could only pull or go opposite field that poor guy would never get a hit other than a single of Maddux. A shift with Maddux on the mound, to easy
I think Maddux interpreted the question as "How would your pitching be different if you were taught by today's pitching coaches?"
Nolan Ryan would sometimes throw over 200 pitches in a game! Pitchers now are considered ironmen if they go 5 & a 1/3 innings.
That’s what I don’t get about pitchers. I mean 100 pitches is like the benchmark. Once you hit that you’re done, whether it’s in the 4th inning or 8th inning. But just think how many times a pitcher actually throws the ball during a game day. How many pitches does he throw before the game starts to warm up and how how many pitches does he throw in between innings? I mean if he gets up to 90 plus pitches and the game gets to the 7th or 8th inning, he’s probably thrown 200 pitches already that day. So what’s so magical about 100 pitches?
@George Floyd Foreman That’s a good point. Breaking balls are an unnatural motion on a pitcher’s elbow and wrist as well.
I like pitching but its not something i get overly excited about. But I really wished I had watched Maddux pitch before he tired in person.
So, no discussion of the strike zone Maddux was allotted.
Maddux’ trick was to throw to the catcher’s glove, which umpires scored for accuracy.
Yeah that sounds like baseball.
And THAT, my friend, IS part of the art of pitching.
Everyone wants to say they are babying the pitchers because they consider 5 innings the goal to get through. While it seems miniscule these pitchers aren't near as muscular nor have the ideal frame as pitchers back in the day. Back in the day they looked more like Nolan Ryan. Strong, naturally athletic, and was able to handle the abuse they threw at themselves. 110+ pitches in a starter was normal.
Now we have the moneyball effect. Picking up guys who can throw real well with lots of effort put into it, but don't last near as long because they don't have the frame nor the strength to endure a much more competitive setting. The abuse these pitchers are enduring now-a-days is astonishing to say the least. To get spinrate it requires a lot of energy. Those tendons and muscles that are in the shoulder and elbows are not built for the increase in workloads let alone back in the day.
Also, why not put in a reliever who is fresh rather than the batters seeing the same pitcher a 3rd time through the lineup who has pitched over 90 pitches? Plus, the starter will have a longer career. Look at Ohtani. Ideal build, strength, with velocity and movement. Look at him now. Already going through TJ. Same with Strausburg. Everyone wants to look at the greats who threw 7+ every game at 95+ FB. Those people were/are freaks of nature and are more lucky than good.
To be fair, he was a terrific control pitcher, but if Maddux looked like he was trying to paint the corner, the umps after a while decided that was where the corner was. Not unlike certain hitters known for having a good eye getting "ball" called at anything they don't swing at.
…“You know..you know, who would have known, i don’t know” - Greg Maddux
Not everyone can be a wonderful public speaker man. So you can make fun of him all you want, but Maddux won 355 games in his career, he's in the Hall of Fame, and he made over $150 Million in his career... and you didn't. 😆
That is him trying to be nice with this horrible interview. Maddux wanting the batter to put the bat on the ball? A better question would have been "how many more games could you have won if the teams you played for relied on contact hitting instead of homeruns and the sacrifice flys."
Greg would be doing the same thing: get a lot of ground balls and making hitters look even more silly because all of these hitters today are swinging at everything.
Ferris Bueller really made some good points.
Lmao I've always thought he looked like Matthew Broderick.
if not for the fing strike he could very easily be knocking on the door of 400 wins
With much success would be the short answer .
His backup fastball froze left handed hitters each and every time!
The professor!
Hey Dan, do you cuddle with that kapperdick jersey you got hanging on your chair? 🤣
He was the best and surely my favorite! I'm sure you know that when he retired they gave him a puppy...and he hasn't walked him yet!!
Ha!!
if you have lead after 5 innings you qualify for win no matter the score
6-7 innings, 3 earned runs, and the lead, thats a quality start
if you losing the game thats not quality start
7-8 innings 2 earned with lead excellent start
8-9 innings 1 earned winning or losing, depending on amount of hits, dominant start
9 innings 0 earned well this is a shutout Complete game
shutouts on innings after 5 on losing team is quality start
If you don’t know, now YOU KNOW!
Clark Kent
They baby the whole league. Mentality of pitchers in the 60-70 and 80,s was pitch 9 innings. Not just 4 or 5 innings.
if kyle hendricks is successful now, maddux definitely would be.
The game has changed. Everyone in the lineup can hurt you, most for power.
And... nearly everyone in the lineup "Ks" like a freak too... trying to hit the ball 400+ ft every swing. A guy like Maddux would exploit that to the max, and would be as great as ever.