That idea to lock the strings at the saddle top is really appealing! As a floyd User/player The non locking traditional bridges always gave me issues like you mentioned with one or two strings not holding tune so i always just used the Floyd to eliminate any tuning probs. Gotta give props to Wilkinson for making that bridge you are using here.
Ocean Turquoise Metallic - is the color. The bridge is amazing. Just got one brand new arrived yesterday at the store - they were surprised as they only get one or two Suhr's in a year. I came in today actually looking for a Pete Thorn sig model and expecting to have to order and wait for it. Amazing coincidence this guitar just arrived for me to buy it ! Thanks Pete Thorn, as soon as I played it my search was over.
I bought the current production version of this Tremolo for a planned Strat build I have in the que (a copy of Alex Lifeson's 'Hentor Sportscaster'). The folks at Wilkinson told me they have a newer compact version on the way very soon which will fit in the Gotoh 510 recessed rout (flush mount). I'm pretty stoked about this tremolo and have been following it since seeing this video.
@@Rotor-Sims I agree the 510's are very stable but not to the same level as a Floyd Rose (fine tuner/non-fine tuner versions). These add significant stability when set up correctly that is Floyd Rose level stability. I am about to buy a Suhr Classic S with a 510. The WVS1302P drop straight onto the 510 stud posts on a Suhr. You leave the post height exactly the same as Suhr sets at the factory, just set the saddle height/radius and of course the intonation.
I've actually been using these for a while now & I can honestly say that they're F#&king INCREDIBLE!!!! I can do anything from Hank Marvin too Steve Vai level's of movement & it is 100% stable & it feels great too!!
Is this a direct swap out for the 510 Gotoh? Would it work in a full floating Charvel Pro Mod So Cal Style 24fret...? This seem absolutely perfect..I can't stand my 510..Help
I always wondered what changed about the Rush guitar sound- from that 2112 head punch to the "Signals" era flutter. This really clears it up. Thank you. (Now I know never to go near this stuff... or anything Floyd related... ha). I do love when we find the gear that makes us feel at home and can totally appreciate that aspect.
It's funny, I had this idea for years but never got around to building the saddles. Floyd Rose already has a similar deal to use with no locking nut. Guthrie Govan is using that on his guitar.
Pete is the kind of guy that if you could spend a day with him, you’d just talk about gear all day and he’d be super chill and cool. Would love to soak up every bit of knowledge I could from this guy.
Hi Pete. As you mentioned the (low) E and G string seem to go out of tune the most when bending. I think this is because they are the longest stings at the saddles. This causes greater friction on the back of the saddles, and consequently those strings don't settle back properly in tune. I have a Bladerunner Super-V. It works pretty well, but still has/had the E and G problem. I filed the back of the saddles down to try and get a "break angle" that more closely matched the 5th and 2nd strings. This improved their performance, but it is not as good as the Tremolo that you demonstrated. Those Allen screws are probably the best way to go. If Tremolo designers/manufacturers staggered the "backs" of the saddles accordingly, they would probably get rid of most tuning instability problems. Thanks for the demonstration. Hope they sell of those saddles separately.
That is probably one of the nicest bridges ive ever seen and you can still tell you get that nice twang if wanted and snap because of the design very nice man
This product has turned out to be a huge bummer...firstly, if you have a Suhr (or any other guitar) that uses a RECESSED trem route, this new bridge won’t fit. Second, if you’re thinking that you can just get the saddles themselves and replace your existing saddles...that won’t work either. The action height screws on the Wilkinson saddles aren’t the same as the standard Gotoh saddles, and there are grooves in the baseplates of Gotoh trems, and the Wilkinson saddles won’t line up properly in the grooves. I’ve gotta wonder why Trev didn’t design this to be 100% compatible with the Gotoh 510?! Like, what was he thinking with this...? Could’ve been such a killer product. The 510 series trems are so ubiquitous, would be so easy to upgrade them. Maybe Gotoh themselves will come out with locking saddles that are compatible but I doubt it.
Will it fit a suhr with gotoh 510 that isn’t reccesed? There’s videos of putting replacing them with this Wilkinson . Didn’t Wilkinson released just the saddles as well, are U saying those won’t fit on a gotoh?
@@maxloyd9682 Yes, it *absolutely will work* with a NON recessed (or top mounted) trem. I would NOT recommend getting just the saddles if you have a trem (like the 510) that has grooves in the baseplate. The reason is like I said, the Wilkinson saddles use a different string action height screw placement, and they don't line up in the baseplate grooves properly. It's super janky. I tried to force it to work, and it was just really lame. The Wilkinson saddles rocked back and forth because they don't line up properly! Again I'd love to know wtf Trev was thinking with this...I even bought the entire assembly (Wilkinson bridge with the locking saddles) and it's just slightly differently sized than the Gotoh 510, enough that it doesn't fit in the damned recessed route. Like why would Trev do that? Just makes no sense to me. Maybe Gotoh has some kind of IP / patent protection on the exact bridge baseplate design but that's just a guess.
max loyd The Wilkinson bridge with locking saddles works great, tuning is just as stable as a Floyd with a locking nut. In order to pull up you’d have to float it or find a way to recess mount it. That’s the whole point of top mounted bridges.
I have a PRS S2 and I LOVE the trem. Really smooth and fluid, stays in tune well. I don't use it for dive bomb EVH stuff, but I'm sure it could prob do that. Def does the subtle vibrato well. It feels really nice, and the pop in arm is way better than the Fender screw in style ones that always wobble
Hey Pete, I don’t believe that that guitar and that bridge really work and sound good, send me one and I’ll be back with you in a few years with my findings… 🫣😉 Nice system and good thinking! Love your playing and guitar-gear-nerdism!
I hope they put it into production. Since John didn't want to use the non-fine tuner Floyd Rose for Guthrie and it's catching on, even with Tom Anderson (I've been wanting people to use it with locking tuners for over 20 years), I think it would be great. I get why John can't bring himself to do it now, but literally, this bridge could literally replace all the production trems.
Nuclear Cheddar they used the floyd with no fine tuners. In these videos he talks about the bridge. ua-cam.com/video/7mMBhCAzUlg/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/3dq-G5qzf8Y/v-deo.html There is a longer video from NAMM where Guthrie sits with Chip Ellis, the master builder at Charvel that did the prototypes where they talk about why they went to their own version of the floyd in he end. (They were constantly grinding the saddles to shape them for comfort and hardened steel is a bitch so making their own was the best option). Guthrie even states in the video that he wanted to try this bridge for a long time but "no other guitar builders seemed to want to have the conversation." Ahem. ua-cam.com/video/gvwYHtMVZ0k/v-deo.html And last year, Pete made me very happy when he posted this pic of a guitar of his that Suhr retrofitted with the original Floyd and he was raving about it. Well, I don't think John was going to start using them after losing Guthrie over it. That would be like saying he should have done it. Hence the Wilkinson. Here's a link to Pete's post with the "Floyded" guitar. facebook.com/guitarnerd/photos/a.1351899548224210.1073741828.112763742137803/1352778644802967/?type=3 I have two of the Guthrie models. I followed it's development and when they started with that Floyd, I decided if they put it into production I'd get it because I discovered back in 1996 that the locking bridge with locking tuners worked every bit as well as a locking bridge with locking nut be without the hassle. But at the time, you couldn't buy a non fine tuner Floyd.
Nicholas Totoro read my reply and watch the clips. His prototypes were actual Floyd Rose non-fine tuner models. Charvel made their own because it was easier than modifying the harden steel saddles of the originals for him. The third video I linked to is Guthrie sitting with the builder and they discuss it.
Nicholas Totoro yeah, he didn't like the edges of the floyd saddles and Chip talks about grinding the saddles down by hand and it was grueling so he decided they should just manufacture their own. Lol
I have just been looking at the v trem and the Sophia trem. Both seem super expressive. But honestly this seems like an elegant solution that doesn’t change the vibe of the guitar too much.
I see some small screwed on each saddle- The question is:- can you adjust the action like on a regular Fender bridge from the 2 screws, on each side of each string…? So far nobody said anything about this fact yet- as well, can you lock the saddles down to the bridge plate (like on a Vai type/Edge Ibanez or Floyd Rose bridge) on this model, or not…? Thank you.
I’m sure all these companies look at each other’s designs and rejig their products whilst trying to avoid infringing existing patents. G&L Saddle Lock fixed bridge may have been a source of inspiration or Floyd Rose himself. Still a cool product by Trevor Wilkinson \m/
I am wondering whether that conversion arm that Wilkinson used to make can be added to this particular bridge so that it's floating when you rotate the arm up and fixed when the arm falls down due to gravity.
I think you're referring to the "Wilkinson VS100C Convertible" floating/locking bridge. I had several of those and they were great when dialed in (they were a bit fiddly to setup). The knuckle of the arm rode on a cam that raised and lowered the base of the arm into a specialized nut that clamped on to the backplate (tremolo cavity cover). There was a spring assembly with a collar involved as well. With the trem arm engaged and rotated forward, the bridge was free floating. When the arm swung down, the pin was captured by the specialized, backplate nut, and the trem was locked--it was a great system. www.axebition.com/bridge/wilkinson-vs100c-convertible ua-cam.com/video/_XVlv3j2GvM/v-deo.html After a few years on the U.S. market, the Wilkinson Convertible Trems were pulled. I talked to Trevor Wilkinson about it, and my understanding is that Gibson threatened to sue, or filed suit for some patent infringement on one of their designs, but I've never seen Gibson offer anything even remotely similar to the Wilkinson Convertible bridge.
Would be cool if they sold just the saddles. It looks like those saddles would fit on a traditional 6 screw trem MIM- style trem. Then even lefties can use them.
I actually found them right after watching this. :-) Thanks! They look great! These Wilkinsons seem to clamp down a little closer to the friction point but will def. try those.
Yeah, I think the Wilkinson may be better cos of that. But I will try the Phantom too. Already bought. IMHO Wudtone bridge are the best so far, complete stability using the tremolo. Goes a little flat after a big bend, have to do a tap at the tremolo arm to return to pitch.
@@PeteThorn thanks for the reply so fast after namm! I'm sure you're exhausted and deaf. I've been trying to find a customer service email for wilkinson to ask directly however I've had no such luck finding one so far
Hi Pete, I love your channel. I have a couple questions about your bridge. Is it possible to have a 510 style bridge set up flush with the body so it's not floating? Also, do you think having a floyd rose style locking nut in addition to this wilkinson "locking 510" would be a good combo?
Guitarmaker's point of view on the neck twisting caused by hybrid string gauges: I switched from light to light-top-heavy-bottom strings on my acoustic and noticed no feelable difference in the action. I like a straight neck, virtually no relief, so I would have noticed. Or maybe I wouldn't notice. Theoretically, switching to heavier bottoms would cause a little more relief on the bass side, and that could be a good thing.
Good old Trev, he's always been a good engineer. It is about time that trem technology caught up with the need for tuning stability. It amazes me that people put up with a trem that goes out of tune, even on expensive gear. I have a couple of Parkers and one of the best things about them is their tuning stability under severe abuse. Makes a Floyd, wonderful as they are, seem like overkill.
Hey Pete - informative vid! Question - how does the tone differ from the traditional bent steel saddles? I've used the cast block saddles before and to my ear they take away some of the high end shimmer associated with the bent steel saddles. In other words - not as vintage sounding.
Hey Pete looks cool...kinda pricey like $250 shipped on Reverb..the saddles are like around $100. Do you think they will work well with any standard locking tuner ?
G and E-string are a problem bc they have the lowest tension and get wobbly very early when pushing the Trem dowm and might not get into their place (the edge of the bridge) correctly when releasing the trem. By locking the strings with that screw or a FL-type locking, the slack responsible for the detune is reduced to a minimum as opposed to a 'free' string-trough solution as is popular with Strat-type guitars
Hi Pete, I read the frets on your Suhr are Jumbo Stainless Steel. Why do you prefer big frets? Is it tone? Feel? All of the above? LOL! I've always played around (.095x.045) and I was wondering if the "feel" is gonna be a big difference foe me. For example, not feeling the fretboard as much. Albeit your guitar has great sustain and the larger frets would make it easier to bend the strings. Thanks for sharing all your incredible knowledge and videos!
I'm a big fan of the Super V Bladerunner, fantastic tuning stability! Not sure why more manufacturers haven't made them standard, I consider them one of the best non-locking trems on the market!
Agreed. I always wanted to use the bar on my strats but never did until I got the bladerunner. Now I have one on both of my strats! I also wonder why they haven't licensed their design with a manufacturer.
They feel slightly different to a Fender style vintage trem, but I certainly wouldn't describe them as stiff. They are just fine for gentle flutters or more extreme dives and hold tuning stability like no other. Would highly recommend
I absolutely adore wilkinson bridges, i have several models on several guitars and i am just floored. 3 are set up to “float” and the stability is just insane.
teddeeh I have one guitar with a Wilkinson and it’s awesome. My best guitar. I literally can take it out of its case three weeks after just sitting and it will still be perfectly in tune.
Pete, about the bridge. I think that Phantom locking saddles do the same thing. Wudtone bridge is another good one, with the advantage of constant contact with the body (6 screws), I have one in my PRS SE. Best bridge so far.
John Suhr that's a shame. It seemed to be what I was looking for. John can you tell me when this new bridge will be available? Any chance to get one with narrow spacing?
I have to say that I'm glad that you took this problem and bring a solution. I was tired to search for this. I really don't like floyds and tried everything to solve this.
João Marcelo spacing is 2.125” E-E same as a Floyd and our 1055. It won’t be too long but they will first go to Pete’s signature. Then will be offered.
@@johnsuhr6559 So spacing is narrower than the 510 bridges which are 56mm E-E (10.8mm string to string)? I'm thinking it'll be very narrow string spacing if you're used to the 510?
You could try 300 K volume pot… Or just roll the tone control down a bit! Or a darker sounding pickup may be in the bridge. Something with an Alnico 2 magnet.
For those still looking for this tremolo, they are for sale here: Wilkinson WVS1302P Chrome Full Assembly with Locking Saddles reverb.com/item/23457425-wilkinson-wvs1302p-chrome-full-assembly-with-locking-saddles?
For anyone that passes by this video again, it looks like the tremolo actually went into production. You can find it on StewMac labeled the VS-100N. Might get one for my Suhr Modern
Suggestion: Try a 'SUPER-VEE', BLADERUNNER with the Mag-Lok as well on one Your Signature Suhr Guitars. I Hope to get a 'Lefty' One, someday, along with a PT100 AMP.
I prefer six-point trem to two, but that's still awesomely, and simply, freaking brilliant! Would love to see a six-point version or maybe after-market replacement saddles with that application for traditional Fender bridges. One can hope lol!
Does the whammy bar stay in place for a long time? I'm tired of my whammy bar swinging loosely by the end of a song, despite trying teflon wrap on the threads and gorilla tightening the nut. Love the phase/flange/? effect you're using.
That bridge is awesome ! Having that screw come down over the string will help so much with keeping the string in the saddle so it doesn't get caught on the groove and break or go out of tune . Any chance you can update when they do become available?
Me again. I've had time to re-watch, and look very closely at that bridge, and where the allen bolt is in relation to the point where the string leaves the bridge, and I have to say that it doesn't look as "kind" to the string as a Floyd is. A Floyd allows the string to point where the string leaves the saddle to roll away, so that the "stress fracture" point is shared out over at least 5mm of string, bt this one looks more like it is down to 2mm, making a break more likely. I listened to you saying "broke one string in all this time" but my mechanical mind is still "Hmmm...". I'd LOVE to get a close-up view from 10 cms above the bridge pickup looking back at it :O)
I’m telling you though I’ve only broken one string in six months and I’ve left them on for a pretty long period of time. Multiple sets, long enough that I wanted to change because they were downright dead. I tracked at least three or four songs on my record using this bridge. They only string I broke was a high e. And I have this guitar on tour now in japan. Like I said I wanted to be the guinea pig and make sure it works!
I used to have a Rockinger Tremolo and it was ok, but I switched to the first Floyd Rose with fine tuners. They were better made than the new ones. I still have it.
I’m very interested. Pete have you ever tried the big brass block on a Floyd? I had a Floyd that I did that to, and I was surprised at the tone and sustain compared to all the Floyd’s I’d ever used. That being said it was still a Floyd so setup is still a pain.
re the bridge ......so what it gains is stabilizing the eccentricities of of string over the distance between the breakpoint of the saddle and the disc-like ball end in the block.......the problem there is mostly the ball end .......so clamping the string down eliminates the ball end moving around in the block.......Flash back to Fender's Bullet Strings ......which have been built since the early 70's ......they eliminated virtually all of the loose ball in the block issues ........IF you like Fender strings........and no need to bolt them down .
No that’s not correct, I’m sorry. It’s the breakpoint over the saddle itself. There is a long thread over at the gear page about this John Suhr has done extensive experimentation and even pulled out the microscope to check the string and it’s return to the exact same place after using the bar.
This is very interesting. I'm looking at the Floyd Rose Rail Tail too. It's pricey @260.00 but hey it a Floyd Rose :) the rollers, along with locking tuners, and a tusq nut, should hold tune just fine.
I thought about putting it on my japenese strat but guitar center tech said I don't need locking tuners or graphite nut. He said the parts on Japenese guitar are great he said he will do setup and it be fine. But I know they ripped me off before by fixing a guitar then after I paid said the neck was warped when I complained the neck had buzzing.
I'm preordered on the Ocean Turquoise. I hope that the first run comes with them, but it won't be a deal breaker. Still a fine guitar even if you hard tailed it and removed the bar. An internet friend bases his Kuwahara fan site out of Nagoya, we were BMX buddies back in those days, he's Canadian too! Safe Travels Pete! ~James O
If this bridge could be combined with SuperVees' Blade technology, I would be all over it. The Blade technology removes 1 one more cause of tear and friction ;-) I will try out the saddles on my Schaller vintage trem in the future,
No I haven’t, but I do have a Jackson from 85 that is basically that guitar- 2 humbucker strat with a Floyd, bolt on maple neck, made in San Dimas. Great guitar VERY well made, impeccable fit and finish, super tight neck pocket. and yes I’d say that Suhr is very similar as far as tolerances go, you could spec a suhr to very similar specs
That idea to lock the strings at the saddle top is really appealing! As a floyd User/player The non locking traditional bridges always gave me issues like you mentioned with one or two strings not holding tune so i always just used the Floyd to eliminate any tuning probs.
Gotta give props to Wilkinson for making that bridge you are using here.
Ocean Turquoise Metallic - is the color. The bridge is amazing. Just got one brand new arrived yesterday at the store - they were surprised as they only get one or two Suhr's in a year. I came in today actually looking for a Pete Thorn sig model and expecting to have to order and wait for it. Amazing coincidence this guitar just arrived for me to buy it ! Thanks Pete Thorn, as soon as I played it my search was over.
I bought the current production version of this Tremolo for a planned Strat build I have in the que (a copy of Alex Lifeson's 'Hentor Sportscaster'). The folks at Wilkinson told me they have a newer compact version on the way very soon which will fit in the Gotoh 510 recessed rout (flush mount). I'm pretty stoked about this tremolo and have been following it since seeing this video.
@@Rotor-Sims I agree the 510's are very stable but not to the same level as a Floyd Rose (fine tuner/non-fine tuner versions). These add significant stability when set up correctly that is Floyd Rose level stability. I am about to buy a Suhr Classic S with a 510. The WVS1302P drop straight onto the 510 stud posts on a Suhr. You leave the post height exactly the same as Suhr sets at the factory, just set the saddle height/radius and of course the intonation.
Genius . ...such a simple mod to a bridge , yet super effective . Hope they go into production . Thanks Pete .
I've actually been using these for a while now & I can honestly say that they're F#&king INCREDIBLE!!!!
I can do anything from Hank Marvin too Steve Vai level's of movement & it is 100% stable & it feels great too!!
Can you play bad horse with it?
@@maxloyd9682 Absolutely!!!
It's a fantastic unit!!!
Ricky Jones that’s awesome it be great if you made a video and showed everyone what it can do and compare it to a floyd!!
Where did you buy them?
Is this a direct swap out for the 510 Gotoh? Would it work in a full floating Charvel Pro Mod So Cal Style 24fret...?
This seem absolutely perfect..I can't stand my 510..Help
Thanks for explaining about the bridge. Very helpful. I love the guitar, SS standard 01-SIG-0012
What a great bridge. Genius simple. Of course it works. Game changer.
The Wilkinson trem on my Brian Moore C55 is probably my fav term of all time. Perfect!
Late to the party I know, but I've got a set of those saddles coming from the UK.
I can't wait!
Damn, missed it by about 30 mins. Getting sick of talking to my dog about gear, he's starting to look uninterested.
icedcoffeetones he’s probably more interested than my wife tbh.
Me
TOO!
Andrew Robinson. Haha
I always wondered what changed about the Rush guitar sound- from that 2112 head punch to the "Signals" era flutter. This really clears it up. Thank you. (Now I know never to go near this stuff... or anything Floyd related... ha). I do love when we find the gear that makes us feel at home and can totally appreciate that aspect.
You got my attention at "Trev Wilkinson". The saddles remind me of PRS from afar.
E and G string are usually the farthest back, which creates more of an angle (pinch point} thus making these strings harder to keep in tune
It's funny, I had this idea for years but never got around to building the saddles. Floyd Rose already has a similar deal to use with no locking nut. Guthrie Govan is using that on his guitar.
SIXSTRING63 its a Charvel bridge..not FR.
Pete is the kind of guy that if you could spend a day with him, you’d just talk about gear all day and he’d be super chill and cool. Would love to soak up every bit of knowledge I could from this guy.
Brilliant! the most simple solutions are often the most effective.
Japan is goals, you've always inspired me Pete 🙏🏾
I love that guitar, color, binding etc.
Hi Pete. As you mentioned the (low) E and G string seem to go out of tune the most when bending. I think this is because they are the longest stings at the saddles. This causes greater friction on the back of the saddles, and consequently those strings don't settle back properly in tune. I have a Bladerunner Super-V. It works pretty well, but still has/had the E and G problem. I filed the back of the saddles down to try and get a "break angle" that more closely matched the 5th and 2nd strings. This improved their performance, but it is not as good as the Tremolo that you demonstrated. Those Allen screws are probably the best way to go. If Tremolo designers/manufacturers staggered the "backs" of the saddles accordingly, they would probably get rid of most tuning instability problems. Thanks for the demonstration. Hope they sell of those saddles separately.
That is probably one of the nicest bridges ive ever seen and you can still tell you get that nice twang if wanted and snap because of the design very nice man
I hope Wilkinson is going to make this available to the public.
After locking tuners, and a lubed, well cut nut, Fender Bullets are key for tuning stability in a non-locking tremolo. In my experience anyway.
Great to hear ya this week Pete thorn
This product has turned out to be a huge bummer...firstly, if you have a Suhr (or any other guitar) that uses a RECESSED trem route, this new bridge won’t fit. Second, if you’re thinking that you can just get the saddles themselves and replace your existing saddles...that won’t work either. The action height screws on the Wilkinson saddles aren’t the same as the standard Gotoh saddles, and there are grooves in the baseplates of Gotoh trems, and the Wilkinson saddles won’t line up properly in the grooves. I’ve gotta wonder why Trev didn’t design this to be 100% compatible with the Gotoh 510?! Like, what was he thinking with this...? Could’ve been such a killer product. The 510 series trems are so ubiquitous, would be so easy to upgrade them. Maybe Gotoh themselves will come out with locking saddles that are compatible but I doubt it.
Will it fit a suhr with gotoh 510 that isn’t reccesed? There’s videos of putting replacing them with this Wilkinson . Didn’t Wilkinson released just the saddles as well, are U saying those won’t fit on a gotoh?
@@maxloyd9682 Yes, it *absolutely will work* with a NON recessed (or top mounted) trem. I would NOT recommend getting just the saddles if you have a trem (like the 510) that has grooves in the baseplate. The reason is like I said, the Wilkinson saddles use a different string action height screw placement, and they don't line up in the baseplate grooves properly. It's super janky. I tried to force it to work, and it was just really lame. The Wilkinson saddles rocked back and forth because they don't line up properly! Again I'd love to know wtf Trev was thinking with this...I even bought the entire assembly (Wilkinson bridge with the locking saddles) and it's just slightly differently sized than the Gotoh 510, enough that it doesn't fit in the damned recessed route. Like why would Trev do that? Just makes no sense to me. Maybe Gotoh has some kind of IP / patent protection on the exact bridge baseplate design but that's just a guess.
Nick K thanks for tell me I almost bought one.
Nick K Does a dive down and work just as well as a Floyd? Do you think it will pull up just as well?
max loyd The Wilkinson bridge with locking saddles works great, tuning is just as stable as a Floyd with a locking nut. In order to pull up you’d have to float it or find a way to recess mount it. That’s the whole point of top mounted bridges.
Have you been able to test out the PRS trem system? I’d be curious to hear how this compares
Cody Carrig they even look like that one on the prs. Neighbor has one and it stays good
I have a PRS S2 and I LOVE the trem. Really smooth and fluid, stays in tune well. I don't use it for dive bomb EVH stuff, but I'm sure it could prob do that. Def does the subtle vibrato well. It feels really nice, and the pop in arm is way better than the Fender screw in style ones that always wobble
Hey Pete, I don’t believe that that guitar and that bridge really work and sound good, send me one and I’ll be back with you in a few years with my findings… 🫣😉 Nice system and good thinking! Love your playing and guitar-gear-nerdism!
I hope they put it into production. Since John didn't want to use the non-fine tuner Floyd Rose for Guthrie and it's catching on, even with Tom Anderson (I've been wanting people to use it with locking tuners for over 20 years), I think it would be great. I get why John can't bring himself to do it now, but literally, this bridge could literally replace all the production trems.
Nuclear Cheddar they used the floyd with no fine tuners. In these videos he talks about the bridge.
ua-cam.com/video/7mMBhCAzUlg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/3dq-G5qzf8Y/v-deo.html
There is a longer video from NAMM where Guthrie sits with Chip Ellis, the master builder at Charvel that did the prototypes where they talk about why they went to their own version of the floyd in he end. (They were constantly grinding the saddles to shape them for comfort and hardened steel is a bitch so making their own was the best option). Guthrie even states in the video that he wanted to try this bridge for a long time but "no other guitar builders seemed to want to have the conversation." Ahem.
ua-cam.com/video/gvwYHtMVZ0k/v-deo.html
And last year, Pete made me very happy when he posted this pic of a guitar of his that Suhr retrofitted with the original Floyd and he was raving about it. Well, I don't think John was going to start using them after losing Guthrie over it. That would be like saying he should have done it. Hence the Wilkinson. Here's a link to Pete's post with the "Floyded" guitar.
facebook.com/guitarnerd/photos/a.1351899548224210.1073741828.112763742137803/1352778644802967/?type=3
I have two of the Guthrie models. I followed it's development and when they started with that Floyd, I decided if they put it into production I'd get it because I discovered back in 1996 that the locking bridge with locking tuners worked every bit as well as a locking bridge with locking nut be without the hassle. But at the time, you couldn't buy a non fine tuner Floyd.
The production GG’s use a Charvel-made version of the non-fine tuner FR. Not sure if the original Charvel GG’s has that or a real FR.
Nicholas Totoro read my reply and watch the clips. His prototypes were actual Floyd Rose non-fine tuner models. Charvel made their own because it was easier than modifying the harden steel saddles of the originals for him. The third video I linked to is Guthrie sitting with the builder and they discuss it.
Oh, duh. I forgot he really liked the bent saddles on the 510’s on his Suhr models, too.
Nicholas Totoro yeah, he didn't like the edges of the floyd saddles and Chip talks about grinding the saddles down by hand and it was grueling so he decided they should just manufacture their own. Lol
Wow that holds tune really damn well.
I have just been looking at the v trem and the Sophia trem. Both seem super expressive. But honestly this seems like an elegant solution that doesn’t change the vibe of the guitar too much.
Would love to know a part number if this is available yet. We would love an update if there is any new info.
excellent idea for the bridge. Thank you for the "review" interested in this bridge.
I see some small screwed on each saddle- The question is:- can you adjust the action like on a regular Fender bridge from the 2 screws, on each side of each string…?
So far nobody said anything about this fact yet- as well, can you lock the saddles down to the bridge plate (like on a Vai type/Edge Ibanez or Floyd Rose bridge) on this model, or not…? Thank you.
I’m sure all these companies look at each other’s designs and rejig their products whilst trying to avoid infringing existing patents. G&L Saddle Lock fixed bridge may have been a source of inspiration or Floyd Rose himself. Still a cool product by Trevor Wilkinson \m/
I am wondering whether that conversion arm that Wilkinson used to make can be added to this particular bridge so that it's floating when you rotate the arm up and fixed when the arm falls down due to gravity.
I think you're referring to the "Wilkinson VS100C Convertible" floating/locking bridge. I had several of those and they were great when dialed in (they were a bit fiddly to setup). The knuckle of the arm rode on a cam that raised and lowered the base of the arm into a specialized nut that clamped on to the backplate (tremolo cavity cover). There was a spring assembly with a collar involved as well. With the trem arm engaged and rotated forward, the bridge was free floating. When the arm swung down, the pin was captured by the specialized, backplate nut, and the trem was locked--it was a great system.
www.axebition.com/bridge/wilkinson-vs100c-convertible
ua-cam.com/video/_XVlv3j2GvM/v-deo.html
After a few years on the U.S. market, the Wilkinson Convertible Trems were pulled. I talked to Trevor Wilkinson about it, and my understanding is that Gibson threatened to sue, or filed suit for some patent infringement on one of their designs, but I've never seen Gibson offer anything even remotely similar to the Wilkinson Convertible bridge.
Would be cool if they sold just the saddles. It looks like those saddles would fit on a traditional 6 screw trem MIM- style trem. Then even lefties can use them.
Try Phantom Locking Saddles.
I actually found them right after watching this. :-) Thanks! They look great! These Wilkinsons seem to clamp down a little closer to the friction point but will def. try those.
Yeah, I think the Wilkinson may be better cos of that. But I will try the Phantom too. Already bought. IMHO Wudtone bridge are the best so far, complete stability using the tremolo. Goes a little flat after a big bend, have to do a tap at the tremolo arm to return to pitch.
floodland99 hey man did you tried the phantom saddles?
They do sell just the saddles now.
Do you know if Wilkinson plan to release this bridge yet? This trem has totally peaked my interest but cant see anything about it elsewhere
It comes on my guitar now officially. Don’t know about any other options as far as ordering that bridge but my guitars - they come with it
@@PeteThorn thanks for the reply so fast after namm! I'm sure you're exhausted and deaf. I've been trying to find a customer service email for wilkinson to ask directly however I've had no such luck finding one so far
I have problems with G Strings,especially if I stand up too fast!!
Man that's tempting. Looks pretty comfy for palm muting too.
Hi Pete, I love your channel. I have a couple questions about your bridge. Is it possible to have a 510 style bridge set up flush with the body so it's not floating? Also, do you think having a floyd rose style locking nut in addition to this wilkinson "locking 510" would be a good combo?
I like the simplicity, makes a Floyd Rose look over engineered.
they're grabage I have them and they're coming off all the guitars tomorrow
@@johnwade3476 The Floyd’s or this Wilkinson?
Still love my floyds I also have 2 Kahler equipped Charvel’s from the 80s but these look interesting
I love that he is learning Japanese and he knows where the different "alphabets" come from!
Guitarmaker's point of view on the neck twisting caused by hybrid string gauges: I switched from light to light-top-heavy-bottom strings on my acoustic and noticed no feelable difference in the action. I like a straight neck, virtually no relief, so I would have noticed. Or maybe I wouldn't notice. Theoretically, switching to heavier bottoms would cause a little more relief on the bass side, and that could be a good thing.
Good old Trev, he's always been a good engineer. It is about time that trem technology caught up with the need for tuning stability. It amazes me that people put up with a trem that goes out of tune, even on expensive gear. I have a couple of Parkers and one of the best things about them is their tuning stability under severe abuse. Makes a Floyd, wonderful as they are, seem like overkill.
Is there any kind of update? Where to get them?
Great guitar
My Reverend has a Wilkinson on it and it stays in tune like a boss.
Hey Pete - informative vid! Question - how does the tone differ from the traditional bent steel saddles? I've used the cast block saddles before and to my ear they take away some of the high end shimmer associated with the bent steel saddles. In other words - not as vintage sounding.
Hey Pete looks cool...kinda pricey like $250 shipped on Reverb..the saddles are like around $100. Do you think they will work well with any standard locking tuner ?
i cant find these things anymore
G and E-string are a problem bc they have the lowest tension and get wobbly very early when pushing the Trem dowm and might not get into their place (the edge of the bridge) correctly when releasing the trem.
By locking the strings with that screw or a FL-type locking, the slack responsible for the detune is reduced to a minimum as opposed to a 'free' string-trough solution as is popular with Strat-type guitars
I like that bridge design
Hi Pete, I read the frets on your Suhr are Jumbo Stainless Steel. Why do you prefer big frets? Is it tone? Feel? All of the above? LOL! I've always played around (.095x.045) and I was wondering if the "feel" is gonna be a big difference foe me. For example, not feeling the fretboard as much. Albeit your guitar has great sustain and the larger frets would make it easier to bend the strings. Thanks for sharing all your incredible knowledge and videos!
Looks good
Can these bridges work on sterling guitars?
I'm a big fan of the Super V Bladerunner, fantastic tuning stability! Not sure why more manufacturers haven't made them standard, I consider them one of the best non-locking trems on the market!
i've got 3 strat 2 with bladerunner, 1 with schaller lockmeister, super vee is one of the greatest bridge!!!!
Agreed. I always wanted to use the bar on my strats but never did until I got the bladerunner. Now I have one on both of my strats! I also wonder why they haven't licensed their design with a manufacturer.
I've been researching trems for a new build, and I've seen several people say the action is fairly stiff on the bladerunner. What say you?
They feel slightly different to a Fender style vintage trem, but I certainly wouldn't describe them as stiff. They are just fine for gentle flutters or more extreme dives and hold tuning stability like no other. Would highly recommend
Thanks Richard!
You can put WLS130 on the standard 510 or fender 2 points bridge, it's 99 bucks for a set of saddles but it's just awesome👍
I absolutely adore wilkinson bridges, i have several models on several guitars and i am just floored. 3 are set up to “float” and the stability is just insane.
teddeeh I have one guitar with a Wilkinson and it’s awesome. My best guitar. I literally can take it out of its case three weeks after just sitting and it will still be perfectly in tune.
Pete, about the bridge. I think that Phantom locking saddles do the same thing. Wudtone bridge is another good one, with the advantage of constant contact with the body (6 screws), I have one in my PRS SE. Best bridge so far.
João Marcelo I tried the Phantoms many years ago. Unusable really. The strings break and really not a good implementation.
John Suhr that's a shame. It seemed to be what I was looking for. John can you tell me when this new bridge will be available? Any chance to get one with narrow spacing?
I have to say that I'm glad that you took this problem and bring a solution. I was tired to search for this. I really don't like floyds and tried everything to solve this.
João Marcelo spacing is 2.125” E-E same as a Floyd and our 1055. It won’t be too long but they will first go to Pete’s signature. Then will be offered.
@@johnsuhr6559 So spacing is narrower than the 510 bridges which are 56mm E-E (10.8mm string to string)? I'm thinking it'll be very narrow string spacing if you're used to the 510?
Hi Pete, lov playing your sig guitar! I do find it really really bright….
Any suggestions to a mod to take a bit of spike out of the top end?
You could try 300 K volume pot… Or just roll the tone control down a bit! Or a darker sounding pickup may be in the bridge. Something with an Alnico 2 magnet.
i need this...
If a string does get out of tune, do you have to loosen those nuts at the bridge to retune?
No! Just tune like normal
The Wilkinson bridges are made by Gotoh, so probably same bridge plate and block as the 510 just with Wilkinson logo.
For those still looking for this tremolo, they are for sale here:
Wilkinson WVS1302P Chrome Full Assembly with Locking Saddles reverb.com/item/23457425-wilkinson-wvs1302p-chrome-full-assembly-with-locking-saddles?
Have you ever used a Vega Trem
The name of the bridge and can I buy it?
For anyone that passes by this video again, it looks like the tremolo actually went into production. You can find it on StewMac labeled the VS-100N. Might get one for my Suhr Modern
No sorry Robin that's a different bridge- that's the wilkinson trem that's been out since the 90's
Shoot. Looked so similar to this one
Suggestion: Try a 'SUPER-VEE', BLADERUNNER with the Mag-Lok as well on one Your Signature Suhr Guitars. I Hope to get a 'Lefty' One, someday, along with a PT100 AMP.
super-vee.com/
Here's another Guitarist Reviewing the Super-Vee, Pete, in case your curious. ua-cam.com/video/3-c-sF85PkA/v-deo.html
I prefer six-point trem to two, but that's still awesomely, and simply, freaking brilliant! Would love to see a six-point version or maybe after-market replacement saddles with that application for traditional Fender bridges. One can hope lol!
Does the whammy bar stay in place for a long time? I'm tired of my whammy bar swinging loosely by the end of a song, despite trying teflon wrap on the threads and gorilla tightening the nut. Love the phase/flange/? effect you're using.
Pete, any details on the block? Is it tapered, steel, etc? Obviously not the main point, but curious what the back end entails.
That bridge is awesome ! Having that screw come down over the string will help so much with keeping the string in the saddle so it doesn't get caught on the groove and break or go out of tune . Any chance you can update when they do become available?
I’ll buy it! 👍🏻👍🏻
What model would be this bridge? Is it out for Sale yet...? Where can l find it ? If so, how much for it?
Thanks .
Any idea when this tremelo will be available? I'm whamtacious myself.
Me again. I've had time to re-watch, and look very closely at that bridge, and where the allen bolt is in relation to the point where the string leaves the bridge, and I have to say that it doesn't look as "kind" to the string as a Floyd is. A Floyd allows the string to point where the string leaves the saddle to roll away, so that the "stress fracture" point is shared out over at least 5mm of string, bt this one looks more like it is down to 2mm, making a break more likely. I listened to you saying "broke one string in all this time" but my mechanical mind is still "Hmmm...". I'd LOVE to get a close-up view from 10 cms above the bridge pickup looking back at it :O)
I’m telling you though I’ve only broken one string in six months and I’ve left them on for a pretty long period of time. Multiple sets, long enough that I wanted to change because they were downright dead. I tracked at least three or four songs on my record using this bridge. They only string I broke was a high e. And I have this guitar on tour now in japan. Like I said I wanted to be the guinea pig and make sure it works!
Can somebody know if the Modern Satin will be equipped with this trem?
I used to have a Rockinger Tremolo and it was ok, but I switched to the first Floyd Rose with fine tuners. They were better made than the new ones. I still have it.
Bought a Rockinger around 1980, switched the nut for a floyd, and it still works perfectly.
I’m very interested. Pete have you ever tried the big brass block on a Floyd? I had a Floyd that I did that to, and I was surprised at the tone and sustain compared to all the Floyd’s I’d ever used. That being said it was still a Floyd so setup is still a pain.
Hey Pete, What is the guitar effect on the solo that starts at 1:05 in Life on Venus. It sounds like a Harmonica....but not quite....but still cool.
Dunlop mini crybaby, Boss Hyper Fuzz (like an octavia fuzz sound) and lots of the tremolo bar!
what pickups are in it
re the bridge ......so what it gains is stabilizing the eccentricities of of string over the distance between the breakpoint of the saddle and the disc-like ball end in the block.......the problem there is mostly the ball end .......so clamping the string down eliminates the ball end moving around in the block.......Flash back to Fender's Bullet Strings ......which have been built since the early 70's ......they eliminated virtually all of the loose ball in the block issues ........IF you like Fender strings........and no need to bolt them down .
No that’s not correct, I’m sorry. It’s the breakpoint over the saddle itself. There is a long thread over at the gear page about this John Suhr has done extensive experimentation and even pulled out the microscope to check the string and it’s return to the exact same place after using the bar.
Would be cool to see these standard on Reverend guitars. Although the Wilk trem on my Double Agent W is pretty dang solid already.
This is very interesting. I'm looking at the Floyd Rose Rail Tail too. It's pricey @260.00 but hey it a Floyd Rose :) the rollers, along with locking tuners, and a tusq nut, should hold tune just fine.
I thought about putting it on my japenese strat but guitar center tech said I don't need locking tuners or graphite nut. He said the parts on Japenese guitar are great he said he will do setup and it be fine. But I know they ripped me off before by fixing a guitar then after I paid said the neck was warped when I complained the neck had buzzing.
Anybody know the availability on these for a partscaster?
Certainly seems easier than a Floyd. But then again the biggest headache with the Floyd is the locking nut.
Curious if this trem system would work on a guitar that has no locking tuners. Looking for a new system.
I'm preordered on the Ocean Turquoise. I hope that the first run comes with them, but it won't be a deal breaker. Still a fine guitar even if you hard tailed it and removed the bar. An internet friend bases his Kuwahara fan site out of Nagoya, we were BMX buddies back in those days, he's Canadian too! Safe Travels Pete! ~James O
With my Gotoh 510-T, I make all those tips. You don´t need to mod your Suhr: just a good adjust!
Fender made a Floyd/George Blanda bridge that is essentially the same. Patent problems again . PRS did one for Santana as well.
Where do I buy one of these Pete?
If this bridge could be combined with SuperVees' Blade technology, I would be all over it. The Blade technology removes 1 one more cause of tear and friction ;-) I will try out the saddles on my Schaller vintage trem in the future,
Hello, can you also use a tremolo with 6 screws?
You can ya by retrofitting these saddles
@@PeteThorn I have the Wilkinson WOV09
Hell yeah dude
Pete< have you ever owned or played a original 1981-82 Charvel san dimas?
If so how do the SUHR made guitars compare?
No I haven’t, but I do have a Jackson from 85 that is basically that guitar- 2 humbucker strat with a Floyd, bolt on maple neck, made in San Dimas. Great guitar VERY well made, impeccable fit and finish, super tight neck pocket. and yes I’d say that Suhr is very similar as far as tolerances go, you could spec a suhr to very similar specs
Mto bom... top
Pete, where can we find these?
Gosh, it seems like such an awesome product.
Suhr has them, but if you have a recessed trem, forget about it. It won’t work. I just found out the hard way.
Pete, do the screws have a clamp that hits the strings, or do the screws hit the strings directly?
Screws hit the string
Hey Pete do you float your non-Floyd bridges like the Wilkinson on your Suhr? Thanks!!
Yes-floating
Hello Pete! Where can I buy these? Or the whole bridge? I need one ASAP
reverb.com/uk/shop/wilkinson-direct
Pete do they make these in a 6 point? If so where the hell can I buy one? I can't find very much info at all. Thanks brother.
reverb.com/uk/shop/wilkinson-direct