Even with all the equipment you have today to manufacture these wonders, it is only possible if you have the will and knowledge to operate them, not to mention your brilliant ideas. Congratulations my friend.
8:16 you designed your motor the wrong way, the narrowing in the cavity should be at the top not the bottom. Your shaft should be closer to the ports, not further. Also as springs you can use aluminum from a cola can, because it's springy. You only need enough pressure to hold the vanes against the housing, once there's compressed air a positive pressure forms behind the vanes and pushes them out.
Yeah, I kinda looked at it funny and double checked, it's backwards... XD Aluminium as spring will fail due to work hardening, BUT cutting small strips from a measuring tape won't.
@@nixie2462 actually the aluminum in aluminum cans counts as forged hence why it's so springy and can be used as a spring because it has a much higher yeld strength.
You can use it as an oil pump too. Two mods: 1. you need springs, and i suggest you use spring steel cut and shaped like a V to fit in behind the vanes. 2. The faces of the vanes need to be square to the casing. You can give them the smallest of chamfering, but they really need to be flush with the case when touching. Source: i copied a car oil pump to make a miniature oil pump for an RC airplane engine. I used ceramic vanes (cut and lapped from a small ceramic blade handle) and a stainless steel casement, with two teflon shims as faces, and clock spring sections bent as springs. Worked a little too well, so i had to cut a small relief into every second blade to down the pressure a little.
That'd be an awesome water pump. You could put the shaft into a dremel or drill and run an intake hose into some water and have a hose on the output and probably pump some serious water with that little thing. Awesome build!!!!
Before you change anything, I recommend doing a pump characterization. All you need is a flow meter, a manometer or other pressure gauge, some sort of adjustable flow restriction (valve), and a way to drive the pump. This will give you the information you need to size one properly for whatever engine you want to attach it to. Basically, if you know how much air your engine pulls at a certain RPM, then you can size your pump to give the desired boost at that flow rate.
Is the rotor offset towards the bottom of the intake and exhaust ports so the air is forced to move faster in turn making higher rpm? my mind is thinking more surface area on the rotor blades will create more torue, but possibly less rpm? would be cool to hear your thoughts.
You are right the rotor is offset I was surprised to see it work it is also the reason why it was stoling and the air was moving freely towards exost and with the presecion he made it , it was lacking power. It's unclear to me why he did it may be it is a another design or he didn't realize till it's too late 😁. Let me hear if he replied to you
was trying to figure this out myself and came to the same thought train as far as compressing the air, but i still feel it would take the path of least resistance which would be over the top, there has to be a good amount of backpressure anyway holding the motor back if it is indeed not going over the top.
I can’t explain it in the comments section. But i saw a video once „how do pumps work“ or „the different types of pumps“ You can wonderfully figure out why the axis is offset then and you can understand that it’s important to be offset. It’s not just a rotor, it’s a pump.
I thought it would work better if it was offset towards the top, so the air comes in, travels down around the bottom( which has a larger air space) then up the side and exit the exhaust side.
Try this Johnny. On the intake side, and on the cover plate, machine a channel from the high pressure side to the center of the white plastic rotor. Inside the rotor, machine a channel that gets fed high pressure air from the intake to the back of the vanes to help push them outwards. That way even if the first or second vane dont seal properly, pressure differential around the circumference will push the other vanes outwards, as their outside is receiving less pressure then the inside of the rotor. That way you wont need springs but they will still get pushed out. This also means that at low loads, the friction is reduced due to the nearly equal pressure at the back and front of the vanes but as load increases, the air pressure pushes them harder against the outside helping them seal. You have also put the hole for the shaft at the wrong spot, it should be at the top with the rotor blocking air flow from high to low, only allowing the vanes to act under air pressure. The way it is now, the air can only act across the 1-2 cm at the top, which is also why its stalling as your air pressure is pushing a single vane down, allowing air to pass straight through.
Yeah, vane type superchargers were a popular thing for many years. If I remember right Jenson was the most popular. Think they only fell from favor because of the unavoidable maintenance issues with the vanes. You'll definitely need bearings on both sides of the case for that kind of load, though.
Basic vane impeller design. You see them in oil pumps (commonly used in cars), some air tools. Nothing special outside the fact that he used plastic and aluminium, usually, they are steel, and the vanes (the little moving squares) are hardened metal.
If you just using it as a vane rotor no need to offset the vanes. Centered up is fine. Prolly get a lot more rpms as the air is not trying to compress. If you want to make super charger. You will want it to compress air. Offset towards outlet so it takes big volume of air and compresses it then dumps into outlet.
If your inlet and outlet are both on top of the housing then the rotor should also be above the centreline of the housing so that the air can travel around the rotor and the most work can be extracted. If like your build the rotor is below the centreline the air basically short circuits and travels above the rotor instead of around it.
Hey. Love your work and projects.. but i think that rotor offset needs to be just opposite. That way expanding air pushes vane. Its possible doing that now but very short duration ( just that short inlet outlet period.)
That is the principle how servo pumps work. They have thicker core, and are all metall, with 5-7 metal plates sliding in and out. Also, another place this is used is older car air horns, from 60s, 70s, 80s. They have pertinex/pertinax plates spining around. One major thing with these pumps is, they like a bit of lubricity, better sealing, less friction.
now do one without the air being forced to take anywhere from a 90 to a 135 degree turn on 2 occasions on its journey through the pump. You can drastically reduce the total exposed port area (and thus the amount of time the rotor spends with length unsupported by the inner face) AND reduce the angle of directional change required just by making the ports perpendicular to the inner face. You can also manufacture the rotors out of PTFE to reduce friction further.
I used and worked air powered devices. The intake should be closed and outtake as big as the air in divided the air out in cubic centimeters before it exist port. Usually 8 times as big. The intake to the exhaust should about 160 degrees and exhaust port should be about 170 degrees that way the turban will close with exhaust open. I had a 1/2 ratchet that turned 120,000 free.
grate piece and work, but you should put the inlet in the narrow part and displace it in the direction of rotation that you want to turn, and the outlet in the with part it woud have more torque and be more efficient.
Another way to get rid of the springs is to blead air/oil from the high pressure side to the inside face of the vanes. This will blow them out. I didn't see any secondary finishing of the housing, you'll be able to reduce wear a lot if you finish sand all the wear surfaces. (SWAG, 600 grit with some machining marks still showing to hold oil) Another improvement would be to switch from full-round blade tips to a circular section with a larger radius. This will increase the force that the oil film on the blade tip can support. Matching the width of the rotor to the housing is important for efficiency. I think the easiest way to do this is to assemble the rotor, vanes, and housing then sand the whole assembly to the same height. If you're melting the blade tips, I'd get some bearing-grade Torlon. It has a far higher melting point than Delrin and bit better hot strength than PEEK.
It would also probably help if you changed the orientation of your ports to be more perpendicular to the vanes at the top of their stroke. Currently the fluid has to fight the vanes for space as they come up, creating friction. You're also creating unnecessary loss in the vacuum that forms behind the vanes when the pump/air motor is sealed. Try drilling though the vanes almost vertically if possible to the "rear" side of desired rotation or shaping them to be trapezoidal. This is how hydraulic vane pumps are built. Overall, very impressive design and machining capabilities though. Love your videos and format.
Excellent video!!! I'm not sure WHICH PART of your videos I love BEST!?!? The actual MAKING of the things,the INSTALLING of the things,or when it's all done and You RUN IT in things!?!? Lol. Always waiting for your NEXT video JohnnyQ90!!! ;-)
Fyi, there are also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid-ring_pump liquid ring vane pumps. The will have a minimum operating speed before the liquid ring can support the vacuum/pressure, but it's a simple and low-wear design.
That is great ! in order to get more efficiency you should try adjusting the tolerances : the gap between the valve and the motor body seems to be big and the pressure drops because the air can go from the income hole to the outcome hole easily. But that just a prototype so this is really great and I wouldn't be able to make this myself !
i was waiting for a positive displacement engine for a long time. now that you have the tools, try building an engine that only passes air when it rotates (as in, a true positive displacement engine with no leaks).
im getting some vibes for either the V4 or I2 with the size of it, and maybe future iterations could have aluminum vanes with a stainless steel housing, because those vanes are going to melt eventually lmao
Nice build, only one mistake :your shaft is offset to the wrong side, the place on the bottom should be the biggest so that the volume decreases again at the exhaust, this way you will be able to use it as a pump as well
Wow, those Helical and Harvey end mills are doing you and your machine a grave disservice. Get a Kennametal rep to visit and end the chatter, vibration and harmonics. Love your channel btw.
Even with all the equipment you have today to manufacture these wonders, it is only possible if you have the will and knowledge to operate them, not to mention your brilliant ideas.
Congratulations my friend.
OMFG
remember people to report SPAM comments
No I believe it depends on the size of your wrench.
8:16 you designed your motor the wrong way, the narrowing in the cavity should be at the top not the bottom. Your shaft should be closer to the ports, not further.
Also as springs you can use aluminum from a cola can, because it's springy. You only need enough pressure to hold the vanes against the housing, once there's compressed air a positive pressure forms behind the vanes and pushes them out.
I was thinking the same thing about the narrowing being at the top. Wasn’t sure if I was going crazy
Yeeep it frustrated me too
Yeah, I kinda looked at it funny and double checked, it's backwards... XD
Aluminium as spring will fail due to work hardening, BUT cutting small strips from a measuring tape won't.
@@nixie2462 actually the aluminum in aluminum cans counts as forged hence why it's so springy and can be used as a spring because it has a much higher yeld strength.
@@poptartmcjelly7054 Nixie, is correct: aluminum work hardens very quickly. That's why aluminum cans crack after you bend them a few times.
You can use it as an oil pump too. Two mods: 1. you need springs, and i suggest you use spring steel cut and shaped like a V to fit in behind the vanes. 2. The faces of the vanes need to be square to the casing. You can give them the smallest of chamfering, but they really need to be flush with the case when touching.
Source: i copied a car oil pump to make a miniature oil pump for an RC airplane engine. I used ceramic vanes (cut and lapped from a small ceramic blade handle) and a stainless steel casement, with two teflon shims as faces, and clock spring sections bent as springs.
Worked a little too well, so i had to cut a small relief into every second blade to down the pressure a little.
THE SMALLEST PNEUMATIC DIE GRINDER EVER!!!! Nice build.
dude you have the coolest machine shop in the world..
I wish you uploaded a new video every day. I can never get enough of your content.
We can wish but I think it takes a lot of time to design film and edit
Who else grinned when the video displayed "Positive displacement pump"?
The finish from that endmill at @3:00 is amazing. Lighting, reflections just amazing.
chowdered right to shit if you ask me
This has easily become my favourite channel. Keep up the amazing work 👍
Can't wait to see a rc super charger build
Your work and detailed attention is a virtue Sir. Salute
“2RD prototype”? Would that be somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd?😂
yesn't
2rd = turd
Is.. is he really teasing us in continuing reaching the supercharged RC car? :O
That'd be an awesome water pump. You could put the shaft into a dremel or drill and run an intake hose into some water and have a hose on the output and probably pump some serious water with that little thing. Awesome build!!!!
Your projects are always fascinating.
2:41 That secord prototype looks good 😂
Really like the Pocket NC
Everything Stops when you post a New Vid.
Thanks for Sharing 👍🏻
Before you change anything, I recommend doing a pump characterization. All you need is a flow meter, a manometer or other pressure gauge, some sort of adjustable flow restriction (valve), and a way to drive the pump. This will give you the information you need to size one properly for whatever engine you want to attach it to. Basically, if you know how much air your engine pulls at a certain RPM, then you can size your pump to give the desired boost at that flow rate.
A motor that works with the air pressure
Looks cool
well played johnnyq. well played.
I love the part when he say « in other way, a supercharger » 😂😂😂
Am I stupid, or is the porting wrong?
Is the rotor offset towards the bottom of the intake and exhaust ports so the air is forced to move faster in turn making higher rpm? my mind is thinking more surface area on the rotor blades will create more torue, but possibly less rpm? would be cool to hear your thoughts.
You are right the rotor is offset I was surprised to see it work it is also the reason why it was stoling and the air was moving freely towards exost and with the presecion he made it , it was lacking power. It's unclear to me why he did it may be it is a another design or he didn't realize till it's too late 😁. Let me hear if he replied to you
was trying to figure this out myself and came to the same thought train as far as compressing the air, but i still feel it would take the path of least resistance which would be over the top, there has to be a good amount of backpressure anyway holding the motor back if it is indeed not going over the top.
I can’t explain it in the comments section. But i saw a video once „how do pumps work“ or „the different types of pumps“
You can wonderfully figure out why the axis is offset then and you can understand that it’s important to be offset.
It’s not just a rotor, it’s a pump.
ua-cam.com/video/Qy1iV6EzNHg/v-deo.html
At 3:14
I thought it would work better if it was offset towards the top, so the air comes in, travels down around the bottom( which has a larger air space) then up the side and exit the exhaust side.
This thing would be the coolest supercharger ever
I just had to watch this video a couple of times for the Pocket NC.........one day maybe I'll indulge myself and get one.
Rc supercharger sounds fun
Try this Johnny. On the intake side, and on the cover plate, machine a channel from the high pressure side to the center of the white plastic rotor.
Inside the rotor, machine a channel that gets fed high pressure air from the intake to the back of the vanes to help push them outwards. That way even if the first or second vane dont seal properly, pressure differential around the circumference will push the other vanes outwards, as their outside is receiving less pressure then the inside of the rotor. That way you wont need springs but they will still get pushed out. This also means that at low loads, the friction is reduced due to the nearly equal pressure at the back and front of the vanes but as load increases, the air pressure pushes them harder against the outside helping them seal.
You have also put the hole for the shaft at the wrong spot, it should be at the top with the rotor blocking air flow from high to low, only allowing the vanes to act under air pressure. The way it is now, the air can only act across the 1-2 cm at the top, which is also why its stalling as your air pressure is pushing a single vane down, allowing air to pass straight through.
Sounds like a dentist's drill.... Shudder. 😳 Great workmanship.
Yeah, vane type superchargers were a popular thing for many years. If I remember right Jenson was the most popular. Think they only fell from favor because of the unavoidable maintenance issues with the vanes. You'll definitely need bearings on both sides of the case for that kind of load, though.
Congratulations! Awesome work. The pocket Nworking is a must!
This is actually exactly how power steering pumps are constructed hence why you can use this design as a positive displacement pump.
Very interesting, never seen a design like that impeller
Basic vane impeller design. You see them in oil pumps (commonly used in cars), some air tools. Nothing special outside the fact that he used plastic and aluminium, usually, they are steel, and the vanes (the little moving squares) are hardened metal.
If you just using it as a vane rotor no need to offset the vanes. Centered up is fine. Prolly get a lot more rpms as the air is not trying to compress.
If you want to make super charger. You will want it to compress air. Offset towards outlet so it takes big volume of air and compresses it then dumps into outlet.
I like how you took the time to show us the plastic flap, very satisfying:)
Yes that’s awesome good job
I'd love to see this turned into some kind of rotary engine, maybe a new, larger one with a metal impeller? I'll bet you could do it
and I love your tools.
YAAYY SUPERCHARGED ROTARY VIDEO COMING ...........
If your inlet and outlet are both on top of the housing then the rotor should also be above the centreline of the housing so that the air can travel around the rotor and the most work can be extracted. If like your build the rotor is below the centreline the air basically short circuits and travels above the rotor instead of around it.
Supposed to be starting work...notice new JohnnyQ video...well, work can wait...
Hey. Love your work and projects.. but i think that rotor offset needs to be just opposite. That way expanding air pushes vane. Its possible doing that now but very short duration ( just that short inlet outlet period.)
A SUPERCHARGER!!! YESSS!
Id love to see a supercharged rc engine!
That is the principle how servo pumps work. They have thicker core, and are all metall, with 5-7 metal plates sliding in and out. Also, another place this is used is older car air horns, from 60s, 70s, 80s. They have pertinex/pertinax plates spining around.
One major thing with these pumps is, they like a bit of lubricity, better sealing, less friction.
I like your videos very much.
now do one without the air being forced to take anywhere from a 90 to a 135 degree turn on 2 occasions on its journey through the pump. You can drastically reduce the total exposed port area (and thus the amount of time the rotor spends with length unsupported by the inner face) AND reduce the angle of directional change required just by making the ports perpendicular to the inner face. You can also manufacture the rotors out of PTFE to reduce friction further.
I used and worked air powered devices. The intake should be closed and outtake as big as the air in divided the air out in cubic centimeters before it exist port. Usually 8 times as big. The intake to the exhaust should about 160 degrees and exhaust port should be about 170 degrees that way the turban will close with exhaust open. I had a 1/2 ratchet that turned 120,000 free.
You should make a video demonstrating how effectively it can act as an air pump when driven with a high rpm motor 🤓 I’d watch that
Your machining skills are impressive
Making a supercharger is worth the time and money for your channal
OMG i love this channel
grate piece and work, but you should put the inlet in the narrow part and displace it in the direction of rotation that you want to turn, and the outlet in the with part it woud have more torque and be more efficient.
That twist!
Very cool!!!
I think you meant to say it's a turbo charger. Superchargers are belt driven.
It is still really cool. You did a good job.
That was a awesome video thanks
Another way to get rid of the springs is to blead air/oil from the high pressure side to the inside face of the vanes. This will blow them out. I didn't see any secondary finishing of the housing, you'll be able to reduce wear a lot if you finish sand all the wear surfaces. (SWAG, 600 grit with some machining marks still showing to hold oil) Another improvement would be to switch from full-round blade tips to a circular section with a larger radius. This will increase the force that the oil film on the blade tip can support. Matching the width of the rotor to the housing is important for efficiency. I think the easiest way to do this is to assemble the rotor, vanes, and housing then sand the whole assembly to the same height. If you're melting the blade tips, I'd get some bearing-grade Torlon. It has a far higher melting point than Delrin and bit better hot strength than PEEK.
Quite the desktop you got there to fit that on there
It would also probably help if you changed the orientation of your ports to be more perpendicular to the vanes at the top of their stroke. Currently the fluid has to fight the vanes for space as they come up, creating friction. You're also creating unnecessary loss in the vacuum that forms behind the vanes when the pump/air motor is sealed. Try drilling though the vanes almost vertically if possible to the "rear" side of desired rotation or shaping them to be trapezoidal. This is how hydraulic vane pumps are built. Overall, very impressive design and machining capabilities though. Love your videos and format.
Excellent video!!! I'm not sure WHICH PART of your videos I love BEST!?!? The actual MAKING of the things,the INSTALLING of the things,or when it's all done and You RUN IT in things!?!? Lol. Always waiting for your NEXT video JohnnyQ90!!! ;-)
You Are a nice UA-camr
Very cool. 👍
Hvac vacuum pumps use a similar concept, i think
this man just hits us with a suprise @9:36
That can also be used as a water pump, water pumps in cars are vane pumps
Put motor on shaft and you get an air compressor, we used similar constructed comoressor to pressure flour tanks for unloading trucks.
similar to engine oil pump. great contents bro, keep it up
Saudades desses tipos de vídeo no seu canal.
Good work brother, congratilations
The design principle is used in pumps for power steering on cars, springs are not needed as the centrifugal forces are doing best.
Fyi, there are also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid-ring_pump liquid ring vane pumps. The will have a minimum operating speed before the liquid ring can support the vacuum/pressure, but it's a simple and low-wear design.
I still say that you need to be working for NASA!
You also can use it as a micro pump.
That is great ! in order to get more efficiency you should try adjusting the tolerances : the gap between the valve and the motor body seems to be big and the pressure drops because the air can go from the income hole to the outcome hole easily. But that just a prototype so this is really great and I wouldn't be able to make this myself !
Dang dude how do you come up with these amazing ideas. Great job bro!
You should make a mini rotary engine😆🤙
i was waiting for a positive displacement engine for a long time. now that you have the tools, try building an engine that only passes air when it rotates (as in, a true positive displacement engine with no leaks).
i immediately thought of a supercharger
Another source for springs would be a pin and tumbler lock. Or you can look online for a lock repinning kit that has springs.
Teach me please!!! You’re amazingly talented, like triple Beyoncé talent. 😁
Awesome!
Shouldn't your axel be on the side of the inlet/outlet? That way the air does not have to make 2 u-turns and can just flow around the bottom
im getting some vibes for either the V4 or I2 with the size of it, and maybe future iterations could have aluminum vanes with a stainless steel housing, because those vanes are going to melt eventually lmao
Incredible! 😳
Надо теперь лётные испытания провести, на сколько хватит лопаток!!!
Make the cover clear, would look sick
Hope one day you make an airplane rc with your turbines
nice
make it a water pump next please.
Nice build, only one mistake :your shaft is offset to the wrong side, the place on the bottom should be the biggest so that the volume decreases again at the exhaust, this way you will be able to use it as a pump as well
Wow, those Helical and Harvey end mills are doing you and your machine a grave disservice. Get a Kennametal rep to visit and end the chatter, vibration and harmonics. Love your channel btw.
this is the dentists' micromotor :))
Jonny walker quarter plus 90 😁😁
Make that supercharger, please!
Should do a tour of all the things you've made
He who dies with the most toys wins, I reckon this guy will be hard to beat, lol
Maybe make a see through front plate so it would be possible to see motor in action with slow mo camera?
Ok, I cant wait to see what you do.
I think you should attempt to build a scale engine! I see them all over UA-cam and have great interest just no tools I’d need for it.
You should hook up the supercharger to the rc 4 stroke engine and put it on a rc car