When is it time to change the timing chain.
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2020
- This video is about When is it time to change the timing chain.
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When the Mercedes Whisperer speaks, you better listen! Thanks Pierre.
Was just wondering about this topic 4 my '84 71K mile 300 CDT - very valuable & reassuring data - Thx!!
Good morning and thank you!!!!
Brilliant video.... love it
Hey Pierre, just wanted to say hi. And say tankQ for all the great advice. You're one of a kind, a good kind that is.
DRC. ;) PS, a Friend just crashed some pistons into his value train cracked a cylinder head. I was able to get him the proper parts. And he's back up and running again. I told him to be more attentive to his automobile if he's going to drive a Mercy. He's now got it in for a paint job.
Very informative post, as usual from Pierre. It would have been good to talk a little about replacement good brands vs. bad brands, especially in the year 2020 when availability of certain items/brands is not what it once was, what options remain out there.
Great info! I always thought it is preventative maintenance. This is great advice as always.
"Better built then than they are now" true for so many things!
I had a 280sl where you could adjust cam timing with offset keys on the cam sprocket. It needed a new chain by measuring the timing at 98000 miles, and the difference in performance was very perceptible.
Thank you God bless
You have convinced me to find someone who knows how to do it!
Would have loved to have heard the symptoms of having a stretched timing belt. What would a stretched timing chain do in regards to performance etc.
thanks!
The first real hint of trouble is when you get a rattle at cold start up. Of course you better hope you get it to the shop before a guide breaks and that causes the chain to jump and then the valves get bent. As to diesels, yea, they needed changing when stretch becomes a bit much. Synthetic oil basically stops chain wear.
Thank you. I have that kicking around in my head since I have about 170,000 on my 1981 Mercedes 240d. I lost a timing chain on a 1990 Chevy Lumina and even took it to a mechanic because it was starting to miss after change of spark plugs and wires and other electronic components and the mechanic said, oh its okay. A week later the timing chain broke. That was the end of that engine. It bent the valves. That was the last time I went to that mechanic.
On my 1981 Mercedes 240d I regularly change the valve lash at a minimum of once a year and there is very little play in the timing chain but since past experience it is in the back of my mind to keep an eye on this. The 3.1 Chevy Lumina engine had 250,000 when the timing chain broke. I replaced the engine and kept the car another 100,000 miles. I use Amsoil and had a double oil filter. By the time I sold the car it was still running but it was having some transmission issues. Having a tranny oil cooler and regular maintenance made a big difference. That is my next big project putting is adding a bypass filter to my Benz. I am patiently thinking this project through.
Man you got me a lot of relief .. I just baught a 2013 995500 Chevy Cruze and I got a noise when I could start it to the front right for like a quick second then it drives perfect plz guys let me no what’s going on I changed the oil and I took it’s been thru inspection and a mechanic oil change/inspection plus me and friend looking .. it runs great after it gets warm.. even when cold the jerk just happens once in the first 20 mins
Hi Pierre .. thanks for the informative video. As you know I’m working on a 560 M 117 engine . I checked the cabins and they are fairly taut and no marks on valve covers . So I just changed the guard rails . How frequently should I check these once car is on the road .. provide d I do regular maintenance
Thanks
Thank you for the great videos Pierre, I just checked a 1982 380sl that had been converted to dual chains at 84000 miles in 1996. Currently it has 110000 miles on it. Since 2001 it was driven less than 5000 miles. Should I replace chains, guides, tensioner...etc. There's no scoring inside the valve covers and there is no play what so ever when pulling on them.
Good advice Pierre, but how about M115 engines?
I think there is something to the synthetic oil comment. I replaced the head on my 617a due to head gasket failure. Elected not to do the chain as I had checked stretch and it was minimal. I have always run synthetic oil in the car, which is supposedly much better in resistance to shear degredation than regular oil. Car had 175k on it at the time, 100k of that on synthetic. Anyway it made me a believer in synthetic oil for timing chains, as I expected it to have more stretch at that mileage.
The main advantage in synthetic oil is superior adherance over conventional oil.
Thus eliminating cold start timing chain wear.
@@gjemd459 seems plausible, but apparently synthetics resist shear degradation quite a bit better than conventional, and chains shear a lot of oil. Plus, how much wear can a chain really suffer in one revolution before it is fully lubricated? Mist be more to it than that.
using synthetic, what is your oil change mileage interval?
@@MrRjnr I always changed it at 5k. The limit is generally the soot suspension, so you want an oil with a lot of ash IIRC
Is the double row chain in a 1988 560sl better than others? Should it also be changed? I have 90,000 on the car
Any insight on the newer Bluetec engine timing chains. I have a 2011 E350 Bluetec that has a rattle at start. I intended to have them change the tensioner and chain, but should I just have them do the tensioner and check for stretch? and then change if its excessive? Thanks.
Do you have any videos on the oil pump timing chain
Thanks for bringing back the old music. "Built better than..." does this mean that replacement parts are not as good as the original parts such as chains and related hardware?
Hello everyone I have a question. If a car needs a new timing chain, should you replace the whole engine for fear of valves being bent or just go ahead and replace the chain.
How do you measure degrees of movement?
Great video as usual. I changed my chain on my 200k 500 SEL a few years ago.. I was already there because we were swapping cam and rockers.... Anyways. Might be worth discussing that failure is usually because plastic guides break, less due to chain..
Also can you comment on what oil you prefer for m117. ... Thanks
How long did it take you to replace the chain?
What's the reputation of the timing chain on the M112 V6?
Cam sprocket teeth get hooked on 5.6L 117 engines also around 100K.
Hello
I want to renew my father's w123 car, which has been standing for 12 years. It has a broken chain. You mentioned bent valves. I would like to ask how often this happens in your experience? What should I expect should I completely disassemble the engine? There is a new chain for it but no new gear. if I were to replace it, would the gear needed a change too to wear together?
Thanks for the reply
There are some horror stories online in various forums,especially about after market guides cracking. Ouch.
How can you check, chain stretch in a 2000 e320 ? I know you can take fuel pump out and grab chain in older Chevy engines .
3 points on diesels
1 Diesel timing chains will out live the 1st and 2nd owner if synthetic oil has been used
2 A diesel that needs a timing chain will not perform normally. ie power, fuel efficiency etc
3. The timing chain in a mid 80's to early 90's diesel probably is of better quality than a replacement chain
And don't forget to change out the "open bearing grenade" vacuum pump. The single greatest risk to a Mercedes diesel timing chain
You're recommending synthetic oil in an OM61X motor?
@@avivscrewvalla There are many reasons to use synthetic motor oil.
Eliminating timing chain wear would be the best reason.
@@gjemd459 I'm usually told that avoiding synthetic is a good idea on Classic Mercedes diesels. That doesn't mean that owners shouldn't change the oil every 3K miles. Just that it shouldn't be synthetic.
@@avivscrewvalla "avoiding synthetic oil on Classic Mercedes Diesel"
It sounds like you've read too many "oil" threads" on the Diesel Forum.
There is good experience that timing chains "don't wear or stretch using synthetic. The chains actually don't stretch. The links and the gear teeth
wear giving slack. When it comes to metal on metal cold start wear synthetic oil is simply superior to the cleanest conventional oil.
@@gjemd459 I don't claim to be an expert on mineral vs. synthetic. Some claim mineral is superior because synthetic encourages seal leaks/ weeping. I use Liqui Moly MOS2 15W-40 as a time tested compromise between the two.
Howdy. Great video. About how many miles will a chain last? I have a 380slc with double row chain. 50k miles?
On the V8s time is as relevant as miles if they have the plastic guides.
Very informative video, I have a 2005 e320 with m112 v6 and has a taping noise that no one can diagnose from where it's coming any idea what it might be I when to 5 different shops and I get 5 different diagnosis thank you
Have you fixed the issue? And what was wrong?
What about the guides go bad on the time chain???
when your 117 has grooves on the insides of both heads from the slap
Hello. Great video, I have M104 engine. This model has no problem with timing chain? Thanks
300E 24 valves per cylinder ?
Better double check that.
I know they last half as long as the 6 cylinder single cam (300E motor, M103 ?)
sixpoint3 That’s not true. The M104 has a double-row chain whereas M103 has a single-row chain which is more prone to stretching and breakage. Additionally, the M104 has far superior valvetrain lubrication, increased oil capacity, oil cooling, piston crown cooling, and bucket tappets vs. the rocker arms/bearing brackets of the M103. It’s the last and most over-engineered Mercedes-Benz gasoline inline-6.
In almost 20 years of working on these cars, I’ve encountered a few broken M103 chains but not any chain/guide problems on the M104.
I still own 3 cars with the M104 ranging in mileage from 140k-345k miles. Just replace the chain, tensioner, and upper rails when you do the head gasket every 100-150k miles. Follow the instructions in M-B WIS carefully and you should have no problems.
03 350z 212K miles. Do you think I should change it or leave it alone? I just want my car to last a long time
Pierre I have a 1991 w126 300se. It has the American headlights. I’m interested in changing them to the euro style headlights. Is it an easy swap or is it difficult? I plan on getting authentic used ones from a junk yard. Thank you.
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Compared to to Kent the junk dealer who's videos give you a hint but not the full picture so you are inclined to purchased his "kit" filled with cheap Chinese parts for a premium and with his poorly rewritten factory service manual instructions, Pierre is down to earth and knows his sh*t!
Given the expense of a broken timing chain, it seems like cheap insurance to replace the chains every 100K or so.
Hi Pierre, do I have to bleed or purge the high pressure fuel lines to the injectors on my M130 or are they self bleeding. Reassembling after head skim and new head gasket. When should an offset woodruff key be used on the cam sprocket? Timing appears to be about 5 degrees retarded since the head skim? Any concerns? I didnt change the timing chain...🤔
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OM615 worn out chains do try to jump - and then you have a hole on the oil pan. But before they do, they make horrible noise on idle. But I know people, that don't hear that ( wtf ?????) - they think that it is a normal diesel sound (((
Could you explain why the V8 (M116/M117) chains are so prone to wear and "jumping" opposed to the 4 and 6 cylinder engines? The M116/M117 are from the 70/80s, but you surely can't say they are "will engineered" - and lets not even mention the infamous 380 SL US single row chain design...
Hello, CAV M and thank YOU so much for your question(s), we want to answer you as quickly as possible.
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Hi Cav - Did you determine the answer to your question? My guess is the chains don't break, but the guides become the point of failure. I have a 116 with 118k on it, regular oil changes, and trying to know what preventative maintenance is advisable. Thanks so much.
I have the same engine and the same questions as you do. Even similar mileage. Well-maintained car, but worried about the guides. Have you come up with any answers to your question? Thanks! Vic
Curious in the last decade how many other manufacturers (Hyundai, VW, etc.) have switched to chains from belts and how many more problems the chains have caused, and then you look at a 250k mile 240D with its original chain with barely any wear and wonder...
Still curious why the German engineers did not select gears in a diesel.
@@kylek9432 Maybe something having to do with backlash or smoothness? I wonder
@@AppleJack1997 Likely initial cost
For your next introduction the camera should pan in and you're screaming at the microfiche machine and then say oh hi there I didn't see you welcome back to the show.
Om606: never.
How do you set engine timing on a Vito 115 cdi VIN no WDF63960323138314
Pierre great video my problem is finding anew tension guide rail it is like they do not make them any more could u help me to source one PLEASE this is the #102 050 11 16