Sanding Between Clear Coats On A Guitar
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- In this episode, I explain why and how to sand between water-based clear coats on a guitar.
Norton Synthetic Scuffing Pads: amzn.to/2ARIsSL
Crystalac Brite Tone Finish: thecrystalacst...
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As always, I appreciate your generosity borne from your experience.
May4/24. Today I sprayed a double layer of Rustoleum 2x clearcoat on a body I had sprayed previous with red, then 1 layer of the clear. Before today's application of clear, I rubbed down the body with the Norton 0 pad, dulled the previous clear evenly. I am truly impressed with the results!! Not a sign anywhere of scratching by the Norton pad. I'm actually surprised at that, I had fear that the 0 grade was too coarse. But no way! I'm sure not going to experiment with using the Norton pads in a wet sanding routine. Nothing gained! This routine, as outlined in your tutorial video, has taken most of the pain out of refinishing guirars. I'm grateful to you.
Target Coatings makes EM6000 which is an Acrylic Lacquer that melts in to previous coats. It can be recoated in 20 minutes and adheres to just about any surface including Nitrocellulose. I have used it on 10 different Guitars and it buffs out to a mirror finish. Being able to recoat it in as little as 20 minutes makes it easy to build up the surface quickly.
Your attention to detail and thoroughness of your explanations on each topic are incredibly helpful. Thank you!
Thanks for this video, Chris. I'm transitioning from painting cars (as a teen in the 80s with Acrylic Lacquers) to guitars and wood projects (a lot of experimenting and tons of clear coats). Thanks for all the information on water based coatings and the reviews of finish coat products available. The CNC videos now have me itching for one...I better win the lotto! My dry graphite and craft-paint just arrived from Amazon today, so I'm off to paint some cavities...err...that sounds bad, but...carry on. Be well and take care.
I think those last 3 coats without sanding are sacrificial coats - their purpose is to fill the scratches that are still left, but you can sand them off as kind of an excess and be left with the initial 10 coats AND scratches filled.
Thank you for the video; I plan on eventually re-painting a guitar and this answered all my questions about getting a good finish.
Many finishes have a recoat window, and if you spray your subsequent coats within that window, there is no need to sand between each one. It might be better to think about it as sanding between spraying sessions rather than sanding between coats. For something like a 2k urethane that builds quickly and cures quickly, I might spray three coats 5-10 minutes apart. Then I'd let it sit overnight before sanding and spraying a few more.
I'm a big advocate these days for spraying coats within the recoat window. Sanding between coats is so time consuming and usually not needed.
Thank you for this informational video. I’ve used your teachings twice, on 2 different guitar bodies and they’ve come out lovely.
This is a really good topic...so many finished do need that abrasion between coats. It's also important to know your product relative to this. There are some waterborne finishes that do burn in like Nitro...Target Coatings EM6000, for example. I might level after a bunch of coats before going to the finals, but with that particular product, no scuff sanding between coats is required. I only hit it if I feel dust nibs and then only with a white pad or a clean piece of 600 wet/dry.
I tried EM6000. Too soft for my needs.
Chris, the crosslinker helps a lot. The EM7000 high build is nice, too, especially with the crosslinker. But there's value in picking the product(s) that best work for you and I know you are very happy with what you use. I've been using Target products since the early 2000s for my furniture work and other commissions, so it was easiest for me to stick with that for this budding guitar building hobby. I was just mentioning that there are waterbornes that "burn in".
@@jimbecker5675 Honestly, I question the whole burn in claim. I did not find that to be true at all and I did a lot of testing with and without the crosslinker.
@@jimbecker5675 I also have to agree with Chris. The Target coatings EM6000 does not "burn in" like a nitro lacquer. Yeah, it may have some chemical burn in capability, but I think they are not using that term properly. I moved away from Target coatings because sanding scratches translate through other coats, there are witness lines and the finished product is far too soft.
Great tips! Thanks so much for sharing your experience. The timing of this is incredible. I’m 8 coats in with poly as I type this. Been doing scuff coats with scotch brite (400 grit equivalent) between every coat. Was going to work my way up to 800 and 1000 as I keep adding coats. I’m now thinking I should stick with the synthetic scotch pads as you describe. I’m so pleased with how my guitar is coming out I guess I shouldn’t mess with success!
That's a real pretty guitar, great combination of wood
definitely needed that, thanks
Thanks for this. I've watched twice now. I think my idea of "scuff" sanding has been too vigorous and closer to level sanding. I'll definitely try this method.
Great explanation as usual.
Thank you for your invaluable tips! It would take ages to master correctly the guitar finishing process.
This video convinced me to use I can’t believe it’s not laquer for final clear. 🤣
You are an expert. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
amazing video!!! thank you for the advice and getting to the point!! i looked everywhere for this answer THANK YOU!!
Another great, informative video, thanks Chris
Thank you. I've learned much from your videos.
Chris thanks for covering so many guitar building topics. Good stuff. I see that you are spray finishing in your garage which is also you workshop As many solo builder must do. I see that you have a sheet of plastic hanging on your garage door. Could you elaborate on that and and how you deal with dust specifically with solid colors.
Thanks again
Dennis
thanks man , i’m trying this out right now ...
Thanks for the tips. Finishing is my least favorite part of making guitars and I tend to rush it. Nice looking guitar btw!
Thanks, Good to know!!!
Hello sir in our country icant find water base sanding sealer the only available sealer is nippon sanding sealer laquer type
Hi, I am using Angelou's leather dye to stain a guitar top before applying a polyurethane finish, do I need to using sanding sealer?
Would I seal the stain before applying the clear coats?
This video gives great advice, thanks.
Hi Chris, do you follow that same procedure of shooting the last three coats, "only" 45 minutes apart, with Britetone? Will it still fully cure after that 30 days? I'm afraid of creating kind of a gummy barrier that won't allow the finish to fully harden.
Would love to know about your experience with it. Thanks!
Yes, I follow that same procedure. Don't worry, it will cure normally.
This video is golden! I use rattlecan Rustoleum start to finish. It's excellent. Spray a coat, then within 1 hour, a 2nd coat. 48 hours minimum of drying time works very well. Then wet sand out the orange peel & repeat that process for however many is required. But I'm switching to your process. I guess your " between buffing" with green pads is dry, not wet. But I think I will order green Norton pads AND ALSO some that are rated as 1 grade of finer than green. Experiment. I doubt that I have your finesse, so I'll trial the 2 grits. But I do wonder if using these pads wet would be advantageous?? I'd be so happy if you'd give me a yes or no about that! I am dying to try this out.
I only used them dry for this video and have never tried them wet. It might actually work well. Test!
Today I took delivery of 2 - 4 1/2 inch by 5 1/2 inch NORTON '0' STEEL WOOL PADS. Cost me $23.81 Cdn Amazon. They are toted as washable, reusable, I'm sure they will serve for MANY guitar bodies, used with care. I ordered these in desperation, I want to adhere to steps laid out in this video. BECAUSE, I have been oversanding between coats, achieving in orange peel free smooth surface. Next coat of Rustoleum paint "puckers" on that smoothness. I could NOT figure it out. But this video says it all. THANK YOU!!
@HighlineGuitars I'm following this process for a neck re-fin. If doing 6 gloss poly coats followed by 3 rapid coats of satin poly 1) Would you level, buff, then scuff the final gloss coat before moving on to the satin final coats OR would you do normal scuffing b/w all gloss coats and simply apply the final 3 satin coats? 2) If the latter, would you do level sanding and buffing of the satin, or would it defeat the purpose of the satin? Thank you kindly.
I would level the gloss polyurethane with the finest grit that will do the job before applying the satin polyurethane. The goal would be no visible scratches in the gloss as they will show up in the satin coats. No need to buff and scuff the gloss. After applying the satin, let it thoroughly cure and level sand with the finest grit that will do the job. Then buff at a slow speed with a coarse cutting compound followed by a medium cutting compound. The medium may not be necessary depending on the sheen you're after. I would highly recommend you test this approach on some scrap before committing to your project.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you very much for the quick and thorough advice. Greatly appreciate you sharing your experiences and approaches. Will follow and adapt accordingly.
Hi Chris. Top notch video as per usual. Do you have to sand out the low spots between the initial top coats or will they naturally fill up with the subsequent coats.
Trying to sand out the low spots is what gets people into trouble with sand through. I just pile on the coats and worry about leveling after the last coat has cured. Of course, this means you should avoid forming low spots from the start.
Highline Guitars .
Thank you for your reply. I think I have learned this the hard way! I now have no excuse to get it right.
I am in the process of building a drum sander and your reasons for having one has just convinced me it will be worth the effort. I haven’t yet ventured into the world of buying expensive woods until I have improved my techniques and the drum sander will certainly save me some heart ache with potential tear outs using a planer which is something I hadn’t considered.
Quick question do all the same rules apply with wipe on poly? ie. Scuff, multiple coats, level, buff polish?
That guitar looks sick
After the final 3 coats cure, how to you polish the guitar, or will that be a smooth finish? Did I miss a video? Thanks
ua-cam.com/video/MQZQlygYtAs/v-deo.htmlsi=xNrgaG1-SeKg1tfz
Y no es mejor aplicar una capa de nitro dejar secar 24 h lijar y aplicar otra capa y repetir el proceso hasta la ultima capa dejar reposar 3 semanas antes de pulir, gracias
Hey Chris! Great content as always! Question, what happens functionally over time, if you don't abraid between coats? Will the clear eventually crack from playing the guitar?
If it did, I would tell you to sand between coats.
Thanks, that was really interesting. I thought nitrocellulose also required to be (lightly) sanded between coats.
May I ask you a question? I'm about to start a project (a snare drum in this case), and I'm going to do a nitrocellulose lacquer. For schedule reasons I'll probably can't apply more than 1 coat per day. I mean, I can apply a coat, but I can't stay a few hours waiting for it to dry before sanding (I won't do it at home). I have to leave and go back the next day, sand the previous coat and apply a new one, and so on. Does it matter ? If I let them dry a whole day, will the coats blend well toghether or is it too much time...?
Thanks, sir.
What is the goal of so many coats? A thick finish as a protective layer for the wood finish, or a thick or "deep" clearcoat for a specific visual effect? With cars I always thought that the clearcoat was to both protect the metallic/paint finish, and also to give optical depth to the color.
The main goal is to prevent sand through during the leveling process. The number of coats is really dependant on your level sanding confidence.
I've already waxxed the guitar do I have strip the wax to add more coats of clear?
Yes.
Hey Chris, did you hear about Crimson's competition? I was hoping to see your name on the roster.
so did I
I can't get my head around the idea of competitive guitar building.
@@HighlineGuitars it is for a good cause. And we all know you are gonna win, and it is gonna increased the exposure to your content and that is gonna give the ability to reach to a larger audience
@@amitsapir2 Perhaps. However, crafting guitars is just not something I want to compete at.
That scuff pad is the same as the 3m or scotchbrite right?
Yup
Thanks for your lessons. I’m doing a 3-color burst with nitro, and spraying clear gloss between colors. How many coats of clear should I spray between colors and should I sand the clear between colors? If I need to sand should it be wipe, scuff, or level sanding? I’ve found it hard to find videos on spraying clear between colors and the what to do next.
I don’t use nitrocellulose nor do I spray clear coats between color coats.
Will a kitchen sponge scouring pad work for the abrasion process?
No. They aren't made to the level needed for this type of work. You can try it, but don't expect the same results.
Thanks Chris. That's pretty much how I approach it (using Brite Tone and 3M scotch brite for scuffing). How do you deal with the sanding dust caused by the scuffing process? Some of it could get pretty stubborn
I wipe it off. Bear in mind that finish dust turns clear when the next coat hits it, so I don't worry about it.
how long do you wait between spraying and sanding? doesnt it take a day or 2 to cure
if youre doing 10 coats thats alot of waiting time in between
With Crystalac Brite Tone, I wait 4 hours between coats and it really isn't necessary to sand between coats.
If using poly after the guitar sat for say 2 weeks it's OK to wet sand with 1200 or 2000 then buff? Or by sanding would I have to let it sit a few more days then buff?
Is it water-based polyurethane? If so, a lot depends on the humidity where you are. Two weeks would be the minimum. I'd wait a month, which is why I dry sand.
Can I use the scratchy side of a scrubby sponge?
Great video! Is there a way to get satin finish from a gloss clear top coat by abrading the final coat? I’ve tried it and it works ok, but it’s difficult to control consistency in the abrading/scuff look if that makes sense.
You have to use a clear that is formulated to dry satin. If you abrade the final coat, as soon as anything like your skin or clothing or the inside of a guitar case will polish wherever contact occurs.
I’m spraying nitro over poly, do I need to scuff the poly for the nitro to bond?
Thanks!
I would, just to insure bonding.
Thank you!
With Brite Tone finish, do you use the sanding sealer and scuff it? Thanks as usual! 😊
It depends on what I did leading up to the final top coats. For example, if I dyed to wood, I'd put down a couple of coats of sanding sealer to fix the color so it won't bleed. I always scuff between coats to maximize the bond as well as to smooth the surface. With Crystalac sanding sealer, you have to be aware of its amber hue. Too many coats could shift the color, however one or two won't.
This may seem like a silly question, but do you clean out your gun in between each initial coat (the ones with 2-3 hour dry times)?
Yes I do. All it takes is one tiny piece of dried finish to ruin a perfect coat.
Would steel wool also work for scuff sanding?
Yes, but use synthetic pads instead of actual steel wool.
10 to 15 coats! For me 5 are more than enough
Same here.
A lot of the automotive refinish systems use a base coat-clearcoat system where the base coat is not cured before the clear coat is applied, then they fuse as they bake together -without sanding in-between. Can this not work for guitars too?
I doubt this approach would be easy, safe, or affordable for most builders.
@@HighlineGuitars "baking" doesn't mean hitech ovens. A pair of sunlamps is enough. Another attraction is these systems seem to be water-borne nowadays, and fairly high build.
Why not just use 800 or 1000 paper between coats?
Because to so would mean a lot of unnecessary, time consuming work.
can you make a guitar from solid wood walnut?
Yes! However, it will likely be fairly heavy unless you channel the body.
@@HighlineGuitars how much would you charge to make one from walnut?
@@carlrockaway6627 The price would depend on the specs. That could mean anywhere from $2,000 to ???
@@HighlineGuitars o ok
Do you clean your spray nozzle after every shoot??
I clean the whole gun.
Whats it called when u layer to different woods on top like that?
Laminated top.
@@HighlineGuitars Thank u👌
What is the best gloss clear coats?
Crystalac Brite Tone for a non-toxic clear coat and Centurion 1800 for the hardest and most durable.
What brand sir?
@@ajguitarsetup2195 those are the brands.
Why am I getting pinholes with a Dulux clear gloss spray can over angelous dye? 🤔☹️
Compatibility.
@@HighlineGuitars thanks mate