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I honestly feel really bad for Ahriman, bro just wanted to be a wine craftsman, but then he had to watch his home planet be destroyed by the space wolves, his primarch becoming a shell of his former self, and then in an effort to stop all his brothers from dying, he ends up turning most of them into dust. Now he’s just trying as hard as he can to reverse the rubric, just to watch yvraine cure a bunch of marines before immediately killing them. All this with a chaos god breathing down his neck the entire time. Bro just can’t catch a break
Only recently did I realize the name of his war-band “the Prodigal Sons” was basically a perfect mirror to the Prodigal Son story from the Bible. Only instead of inheritance money the son was given a Magic Book.
As a Thousand Sons fan (and Ahriman simp), I can concede that Magnus could have made some better decisions, but *Ahriman* did nothing wrong and I will die on this hill.
Yeah, really mean move from yvraine. Bur that really backfired since now ALL of the legion knows who to attack now to undo the rubric. As i say, for being so smart the eldar seem to act first before thinking
We need a book where him and the Silent King have to team up to fight nids, and end up becoming best friends from their shared depression at turning their entire society into mindless drones
The worst thing about Magnus and the 1k sons, is that they were so close to being loyalist. But his actions, and those of Horus, prevented us from having them as loyalist.
Big E's actions are at fault. He could sent someone better suited to deal with Prospero than that idiot Russ with his rampant phobia of the "witches" -_-
@@stretopovermind9680 Russ was the best suited because he will do what is commanded of him and do so to the letter, but Horus changed the orders from arrest to burn and slaughter.
@@hilkmeister1382 He did not do what he was commanded, he literally ignored both sets of orders. The Emperor directly (literally signed and publicly decreed state document) ordered him to bring Magnus alive. He did not do that. Horus told him to just go kill Magnus. He did not obey that order and waited an hour for his failed indirect communication to lead to a surrender. So no, he was not following orders, he was an erratic, emotion driven smooth brain. He could have at any point sent a delegation (a single custodes would have done) to inform the TS high command of what was happening and they would have convinced Magnus to go with Russ. Alternativelly, Russ could have stoped the violence at any point and offered terms of surrender (which the TS would have undoubtably accepted). He did not do that either. Instead he destroyed the warp specialist legion (right before a war with warp entities), wrecked his own legion (lost likd 25k wolves and hundreds of SoS plus tens of custodes) and turned the only primarch capable of powering the golden throne into an enemy, resulting in Malcadors death, the emperor being entombed for 10k+ years and the imperium going to shyt. No wonder people commonly believed he is illiterate.
The entirety of the freakin Heresy because no one F***ING talks to each other. Leman tried to give Magnus a warning not through something relatively reliable like through the Vox or a messenger, no the ass used a psyker he believed Magnus was connected to not realizing he had nothing to do with the guy. Freakin family drama but with nukes man.
Youre right about Russ, he is the ultimate cretin of the setting (he is literally looking for a magical healing thing for his father who is a perpetual.... yeah) But the emperor... eh, he could (imperfectly) see the future, so he saw timelines where Magnus was against him. Thats why he didnt trust Magnus much. Ironically this happened because the imperium betrayed Magnus, not the other way around.😮
"Straban, that weapon of yours is the pride of the armory!" "Agreed." "Good talk." A conversation between the Vanguard and Heavy Astartes in Space Marine 2
The way Magnus gets described as the key to the Imperium's future, you'd think the Emperor would bother to tell the walking psychic battery about PSYCHIC STUFF
@@jacobphillips980It’s Chaos’s fault. If the empire tells his sons about Chaos then Chaos lingers and will corrupt them if he doesn’t then the Horus Heresy happens. Either way he’s screwed.
@@barbedmitten4475It's worth the risk given how things played out. The Emperor stole power from the chaos gods, all because he was in a rush to make his empire happen. This was just as much his fault, everything that transpired was a direct consequence of his actions.
@@barbedmitten4475 His sons would not have fallen to Chaos if he was a better father. Everything wrong with the current Imperium can be traced back to the Emperor having communication issues with his sons.
@@r1zmy But the thing is he tried communication with Logar and it failed which is why he then decides to raze Logar’s planet (which is extreme but his world is basically a mega-church devoted to the emperor) this then leads to logar corrupting horus. But if the emperor did not reprimand logar then logar keeps preaching and spreads the cult of the emperor. That cult would leave any city that it is one open to chaos because they now believe in a higher power (this includes logar himself.) This means logar still gets corrupted and Horus eventually gets corrupted
Nowadays Magnus sits around the imperial palace arguing with his paraplegic father, dense brother and a sentient banana. Also he plays red/blue… Add one to the counter
I think my favorite part of The Heresy era is just how close it was to everything working out fine. If Big E had just sat down with each of His sons, let them speak freely and listened to them, and acted upon what they suggested, He would have been fine. If He hadn’t punished Lorgar so harshly, if He hadn’t set the weight of the Galaxy on Horus’ shoulders and instead made them all equals(or at least picked Guilliman or Vulkan who WERE RIGHT THERE), if He hadn’t banned Magnus from researching the Warp, He would have His thriving, web-way powered, agnostic, warp-free Imperium. Even if Horus and Lorgar still fell, He at least could have kept Magnus and Perturabo if He had just told them He was proud of them and to keep doing what they’re doing. He could have sat Motarion down and explained why He relied on the Warp currently and how the ultimate goal was its eradication but as it existed now He would use it as a tool, the same as any other dangerous weapon. He could have helped Fulgrim be rid of the Blade of the Laer. I fully believe that even if He had spoken with Curze and Angron they would still turn traitor, but that’s still either 14 legions on 4 legions or 13 on 5, depending on Alpharius/Omegon’s mood, instead of 9 on 9. I understand it was written to be why there’s 9v9 for the tabletop game, but from a storytelling perspective Big E was just so close to His vision and if He had embraced His own humanity more than His ambition and not-god-but-definitely-your-immortal-Uber-powerful-leader-godhood and *loved* His sons instead of treating them like tools to be used, He could have had it. That’s what makes the current state of the Imperium so tragic and yet so full of hope. If Guilliman can find his brothers and unite the Galaxy again, there might actually be a timeline where humanity lives to see 50K.
I mean part of the point of 40K is that the Emperor was a bad leader and bad father. When all you do is tell, and never listen, punish, and never teach, you're going to damage your kids. The dysfunctional family is a microcosm of the dysfunctional government that care more about it's pride and it's leaders than it's people. We get to see what went wrong with such clarity that maybe it'll be easier to see what's going wrong with our world, and do better.
to be completely fair, most of humanities issues come from lack of communication in both real life and warhammer 40k.You can attribute almost every single issue that exists to some form of communcation. The emperor was still a human, even if his body wasn't and his mind was more knowledgable than any other human, he still had a human brain
Abra Cadabra, Red's a Must, your body is now a buncha Dust! The thousand sons are super cool, I may have undersold how damn powerful their sorcerers are. Just know, they go crazy insaneo style, they might even warrant their own video one day...
Thousand Sons have always been my fav chaos marine chapter. I think Magnus' story is more tragedy and masterful manipulation rather than outright stupidity as this video made it out to be, but it was still great and hilarious as are all of Krak's videos! Love your stuff!
Magnus's tragedy was getting lost in fantasies of a better future. That's why he's Tzeentch's most powerful daemon prince. I wouldn't call it outright stupidity, but he was an incredibly naive, arrogant person walking blind into the abyss.
The worst of it is, Magnus damaging the Webway could have easily been avoided if the Emperor hadn't kept the secrets of the warp from the Primarchs and warned them about the Chaos Gods. It wouldn't have even needed to be the whole story, just enough info to make them be careful and not bother him till the Webway was done. TLDR, Problems in Warhammer can be solved by simple conversations, but everyone thinks they know better.
I'm still pretty new to the lore, but the fall of Magnus to me was the result of the big E failling his son. The Emperor knew of the warp and its temptations yet gave no warning or guidance to Magnus.
Completely fair take, the other side of the argument is that Magnus’ confidence in his abilities was massive so he probably would have tried something that would quite literally blow up in his face even if he was told about Chaos. Not definitely but something to think about.
@Fyrverk but that's kinda what the Emperor did do rather than say, "Hey, you're stupid powerful, and these evil gods will try to corrupt you". Or anything to prepare him.
@@NxtReaper someone can correct me if im wrong but from my understanding the emperor(pre heresy and beginning of the great crusade) didnt want to tell everyone, even his sons about the warp(technically speaking he did he just didnt directly spell it out for them) was because the warp gods are fueled by the emotions and beliefs of people in real space. If most of humanity in 40k didnt know about khorne, slanesh, etc, then those gods would have a harder time amassing power. Also the emperor didnt directly tell them about the warp gods was because he knew that even though they were powerful, they would still be able to be corrupted by them. There was a line where Rogal Dorn was talking to Malkador the Sigilite and Malkador literally states even had they directly known about it, Dorn for example, in his eagerness to chase knowledge would've gotten corrupted aswell at some point, so it was better to mostly keep them, as well as the mosot of humanity in the dark about it
@stretopovermind9680 What are you talking about? Big E set out on a crusade across the galaxy to stomp out and strangle the chaos gods from existence.
Funnily enough as a space wolves player my first few matches was against a veteran Thousand sons player. They were surprisingly supportive gave me a lot of tips. He and I are now like rivals/buddies now and we test new armies against each other from time to time.
My favorite part of the Battle of the Fang is when Magnus actually materializes in the Space Wolves' home base and Bjorn the Chad-Handed sees the 10-foot-tall daemon primarch, starts blasting him with plasma, and tackles the big red idiot off a cliff.
Alright, there is no Space Wolfs arraund. Now we all can say that Magnus did nothing wrong. Also love the theory that Blood Ravens are in fact a succesor chapter of the Thousand Sons.
Nothing except cause a massive warp rift in the throne room of Terra using forbidden sorcery instead of an astropath, courier, or going in person to deliver the message.
@@hilkmeister1382 Oh, if only Big E was not such a hypocrite during the Council of Nicaea or such a paranoid fool warning no one about this whole big blue wall in the Warp, or if only he could restrain himself and not send one of the most *_idiotic_* primarchs to deal with a *_very_*_ delicate_ situation on Prospero... But sure, let's blame Magnus for something he had no way of knowing beforehand.
@@stretopovermind9680 Not excusing the Emporer for being a hypocrite but that doesn't mean Magnus had to be a reckless fool when delivering information that could have saved billions of lives.
@@Nugundamsisntforshow thats like your parents telling you you cant use the phone, a murderer breaks in, you go to call your dad on the phone (it seems like a reasonable reasno to break the rule he gave you with no explanation) and the whole neighborhood explodes because you dialed in his cell number. No possible way for magnus to have known the consequences without the emperor telling him anything more than "yeah dont do it cause i said so"
I honestly feel bad for Magnus and his sons. I mean, they almost always got the short end of the stick. Their mutations, being scholars but lacking _key_ information, everything going south just before retiring to a peaceful life, Magnus being genuinely noble but being horribly manipulated and naive. And now they're being controlled by chaos forces just because at least they don't treat them as failures. Magnus the Nerd and the thousand sads.
Magnus did the wrong things for the right reasons. Tho personally I do hold him accountable for the webway collapse. But again the emperor should’ve seen the primarchs as sons and not tools. If he told them beings who claim to be gods exist and they will try and trick you then he could’ve saved everything
The Emperor should objectively be part of the Wrong counter as well. If Magnus was so important and was meant as a contingency both he and Malcador should have kept him closer then just an arm's length and did more to tutor the Pysker Primarch. The man is equal to a Beta Plus Pysker and probably not too far behind of a Gamma Plus Pysker like the Emperor and the Cacodominus within the Pysker tiering system. Especially if he was supposed to be the next one to sit on the Golden Throne. The Emperor was a shortsighted moron to not let Magnus in on his plans and intentions and not disciplining more often about the true dangers in the Warp and giving him strong incentives and agencies to be more aware at all times and make him more resistant to his arrogant traits. Boy would that have avoided many self sabotaging events and enemies and problems later on. But of course he keeps too many secrets to himself when they are more appropriate to warn his most important sons. He wasted a great pysker power that was right next to him. Talk about a extremely strategic, tactical, and logistic mistake in preparing for the situation. He should have taken more urgent action and know one of the Chaos gods would be looking forward to influence him but nope. Instead he doubled down and it backfired badly. That's more then just a simple "Oops".
Or he outplanned Tzeentch and foresaw the 1000 Sons becoming the Necrons. Except those are still vulnerable to corruption, but are more into rigid order than the rest of the chaos gods.
What do you mean? The Emperor managed to brilliantly outplay the Changer of Ways by preparing one of his Primarch sons as a poisoned chalice. Tempting the god of sorcerers with the most powerful psycher in the galaxy, but engineered down to his deepest core to be a self-destructive fuck-up incapable of ever accomplishing anything but harming whatever goal he set out to accomplish. And when Tzeentch made Magnus into a Daemon Prince, Magnus was thus made a part of his patron god. That self-sabotage is now a part of Tzeentch down to his own core, and thanks to the atemporal nature of the Warp, has always been. The Emperor managed to permanently cripple the most dangerous of the Chaos Gods so hard that his entire nature turned against itself. It was a close thing. The Emperor obviously underestimated how blindly loyal Magnus could be, ignoring provocation after provocation. Igoring the faulty genetic engineering that left his legion subject to random mutations, taking the humiliation of the Council of Nikea on the chin, and even after the burning of Prospero and the Emperor's best friend destroying the piece of Magnus' soul most inclined to loyalty still harbored a desire deep down to return to the fold. But the Emperor managed to avoid being stuck with his own genetically engineered perfect fuck-up by recalling how much Magnus loved his sons and offering him the chance to return to the fold in exchange for the lives of his sons, knowing that would be what it took to permanently drive Magnus away into the waiting arms of Tzeentch.
@@YouthRightsRadical That is really dumb. Again the narrative was explicit that Magnus was supposed to be a contingency to sit on the Golden Throne. The Emperor did nothing to condition and raise him properly to resist chaos. Again that is dumb and a strageic failure on the Emperor's part. A big strageic failure that ended up sabotaging himself.
@@thorshammer7883 If the Emperor wanted Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne, he could have made him sitting on the Golden Throne his condition for letting Magnus back into the fold instead of making the condition the sacrifice of his sons. The Emperor thus obviously didn't want Magnus sitting on the throne, but wanted him to sell himself to Tzeentch. I'm just speculating on why the Emperor might have wanted Tzeentch to have Magnus.
I'm glad you dropped this vid before I could get space marine 2. This is because I'm new to Warhammer and needed the ITSA ("Information To Stay Alive" if you will), WITHOUT having to track down the needed books or listen to a fan explain the entire lore for hours. No, this bite size video, plus the ones on the Tyranids and ultramarines are exactly what I needed without too many spoilers (plus Salamanders, cuz I like green... And flamers), while ALSO dealing with hurricane Francine and helping my community afterwards. Thanks KrakDuk for providing the info in a manner that didn't bore me to heck. You do great work for the emperor.
Accidentaly clicked on a Drim Dawk video thinking it was yours, and was wondering what happened to the comedic tone. No one else.will ever match your skill, charm, and fantastic artwork.
I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again here. I think Magnus' biggest flaw wasn't his arrogance, but his optimism. He believed in his father's dream of a peaceful galactic utopia more than anyone. Even some of his loyalist brothers were uninterested in that. It was naive of him to believe any good was ever destined for humanity while it was still such a fearful race, no matter how hard he fought for enlightenment. His biggest mistake was to put all his faith in the intelligence of others, arrogantly believing he could win them over with logic and passion. If only he knew this was Warhammer, not Star Trek.
I watched some random clip of henry cavill talking abt his fav legions, salamanders and blood angels. So i searched up salamanders and ur vid was one of the first that popped up. After watching it, i watched all ur other vids and subscribed. Love creators who actually put effort into the stuff they make whether it be fun editing or animation or both 👌💖. Im not even that into 40k, just played the 2 space marine games lol.
Whenever chaos is mentioned, I have to point out how the Crimson Slaughter is one of, if not THE best and most interesting chaos warbands of all. They have a tragic and detailed history, and even as recently as Arks Of Omen, Abaddon was like "Those guys are really cool, I can even trust Kranon the Relentless to manage a mission of their own!" when trying to assemble relics and space hulks. A video about them would be SO cool!
I feel like the thousand sons are one of the most interesting faction in 40k, since of all the people involved in the Horus Heresy, they're the only chaos faction that was trying to stop it. They fell backwards into chaos, by trying to fight it, and they might have even managed if the emperor was willing to pay attention to them for literally ten seconds.
This video has caused me to fall in love with the Thousand Sons, thank you Krak, these guys are cool as hell, and i want to do more research on them now
10:57 Not the white pharaoh! 😭 Seriously, some of your jokes are spot on my man! It was cool seeing these guys in the most recent game and got someone like me who doesn't know a whole lot of lore, learning about them was also cool. Keep up the great work!
My favorite chapter! Every point you made for "Magnus wrong" was really the emperor's fault if you really break it down. Had the emperor (who is also in league with chaos, supposedly) taught Magnus how to use the warp properly, humanity would be way better off. All of humanity's struggles stem from the emperor.
But then Chaos is further from being eradicated as you now have one of the best pykers in the galaxy both knowing about the Chaos gods and actively using all of his power
Thousand Sons are my favorite chaos legion their aesthetic and lore is just top notch. And I’ll stand by the less used meme of “Magnus did the best he could with the knowledge he had at hand”
No, Magnus could not just send a ship or an asteopathic message. Do you think the warp gods would have allowed that? Magnus realized a major conspiracy was taking place. Using astropathic relays and ships would have been easily noticed by the conspirators even if no warp gods were involved. He did what he understood to be best on the information he had.
Unless I’m misremembering, I thought the biggest factor was time. He just thought he wouldn’t make it in time if he flew there so he chose his method instead.
@@daltoneverhardt377 Yeah. Given warp time distortion, one wrong turn in a ship could make him disappear for years, and he'd be too late. In his eyes, the only surefire way to securely warn Big E was to shatter the psychic shield.
Man, as someone who just got into Warhammer and crave lore in a nice, fun way and don't have time to read books, I absolutely love your videos! Please never stop
Tbh, Magnus isn't that wrong. His astral projetion was probably due to fear of other messages getting intercepted, which was valid considering the message to the space wolf's was intercepted. Yeah he got tricked by a chaos god in times of desperation, but like who doesn't. I also understand why he became a traitor, as fromm his perspective, it seems like the emporer sent the space wolves to kill him and his children for the mistake of trying to warn the emporer
Hey dude, I have a particular request for a WH40K video, and many would find this really interesting. A video about loyalist Astartes from TRAITOR LEGIONS, as in marines who gave the middle finger to their primarchs and stood loyal to the emperor, either from Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, Deathguard, Luna Wolves, etc..
You'd think the Emperor would tell and warn Magnus about wtf is actually in the Warp and the danger that comes to it, since Magnus himself is a crazy psycher genius who is still clueless about what's actually in the 'great ocean', but naurrrrrrrr we loveeee a shut in & emotionally disconnected dad
I think you should cover the Emperor's Children next. They in my eyes had the best fall to chaos stories. They are truly the greatest example of flying so high and sinking the absolute lowest
I think the tag line for the Thousand Sons would be “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions”. Since Magnus did many things wrong, that ultimately damned him and his sons, but with good intent behind his actions. Even Ahriman had this same issue with his Rubric. It just feels like a good quote that fits their story imo
Im convinced Magnus was the Tzeentch character as in 99.99999999999% of alternate dimensions he is good. Its just there were so many decisions Tzeentch pushed him down to make him this way. He is Tzeentch's Magnum (nearly Magnus) Opus
At first, I wasn’t sure about them being the big bad of space marine 2 but honestly, I’m glad now that they were chosen. They are so different compared to every other legion and it work great for the twist/ reveal.
Now i highly doubt this will happen, but it would be really cool as a major final battle against angron that the lion and blue boy fight angron and magnus, just for that one grey knight to scrifice himself to save one of them, when he foes this, that final piece of magnus brings him to his senses. It might be too late for redemption, but he definitely could severely weaken angron with his powers. Like getting that piece reverts him back to his pre heresy self. Magnus literally being the one to offer his hand to guilliman yo help him up while asking "what has happened to us brother?"
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im sorry buddy.. but your handwriting sucks... but i love it so much.. ill start typing in baroque from now on.. uh.. hmm.. oh damn you youtube..
@KrakDuk, no
Check this guy out!! Sponsorships! Proud of you bro, i started following when u just were 8k subs, your videos and drawing wee funny as hell haha
BROTHA GET THAT SPONSOR MONEY
I honestly feel really bad for Ahriman, bro just wanted to be a wine craftsman, but then he had to watch his home planet be destroyed by the space wolves, his primarch becoming a shell of his former self, and then in an effort to stop all his brothers from dying, he ends up turning most of them into dust. Now he’s just trying as hard as he can to reverse the rubric, just to watch yvraine cure a bunch of marines before immediately killing them. All this with a chaos god breathing down his neck the entire time. Bro just can’t catch a break
Only recently did I realize the name of his war-band “the Prodigal Sons” was basically a perfect mirror to the Prodigal Son story from the Bible. Only instead of inheritance money the son was given a Magic Book.
Also its like anytime he tries to be good, it fails. When he is selfish, his plan succeeds. Tzeentch is a butt.
As a Thousand Sons fan (and Ahriman simp), I can concede that Magnus could have made some better decisions, but *Ahriman* did nothing wrong and I will die on this hill.
Yeah, really mean move from yvraine.
Bur that really backfired since now ALL of the legion knows who to attack now to undo the rubric.
As i say, for being so smart the eldar seem to act first before thinking
We need a book where him and the Silent King have to team up to fight nids, and end up becoming best friends from their shared depression at turning their entire society into mindless drones
If only the emperor named them "the billion quadrillion sons"
😂
one gazillion sons
The worst thing about Magnus and the 1k sons, is that they were so close to being loyalist. But his actions, and those of Horus, prevented us from having them as loyalist.
> the burning of prospero
It reminds me of a shakesperian tragedy like Macbeth.
Big E's actions are at fault. He could sent someone better suited to deal with Prospero than that idiot Russ with his rampant phobia of the "witches" -_-
@@stretopovermind9680 Russ was the best suited because he will do what is commanded of him and do so to the letter, but Horus changed the orders from arrest to burn and slaughter.
@@hilkmeister1382
He did not do what he was commanded, he literally ignored both sets of orders.
The Emperor directly (literally signed and publicly decreed state document) ordered him to bring Magnus alive.
He did not do that.
Horus told him to just go kill Magnus.
He did not obey that order and waited an hour for his failed indirect communication to lead to a surrender.
So no, he was not following orders, he was an erratic, emotion driven smooth brain.
He could have at any point sent a delegation (a single custodes would have done) to inform the TS high command of what was happening and they would have convinced Magnus to go with Russ.
Alternativelly, Russ could have stoped the violence at any point and offered terms of surrender (which the TS would have undoubtably accepted). He did not do that either.
Instead he destroyed the warp specialist legion (right before a war with warp entities), wrecked his own legion (lost likd 25k wolves and hundreds of SoS plus tens of custodes) and turned the only primarch capable of powering the golden throne into an enemy, resulting in Malcadors death, the emperor being entombed for 10k+ years and the imperium going to shyt.
No wonder people commonly believed he is illiterate.
the lack of communication skills of some if not all Space Marines never fail to amaze me lmao
The entirety of the freakin Heresy because no one F***ING talks to each other. Leman tried to give Magnus a warning not through something relatively reliable like through the Vox or a messenger, no the ass used a psyker he believed Magnus was connected to not realizing he had nothing to do with the guy. Freakin family drama but with nukes man.
Also therapy.
Youre right about Russ, he is the ultimate cretin of the setting (he is literally looking for a magical healing thing for his father who is a perpetual.... yeah)
But the emperor... eh, he could (imperfectly) see the future, so he saw timelines where Magnus was against him.
Thats why he didnt trust Magnus much.
Ironically this happened because the imperium betrayed Magnus, not the other way around.😮
"Straban, that weapon of yours is the pride of the armory!"
"Agreed."
"Good talk."
A conversation between the Vanguard and Heavy Astartes in Space Marine 2
And the best at communication skills was the "first heretic" so go figure.
It a comes from daddy after all
The way Magnus gets described as the key to the Imperium's future, you'd think the Emperor would bother to tell the walking psychic battery about PSYCHIC STUFF
its literally the emperor whos at fault for the imperium declining the way it did 😊
@@jacobphillips980It’s Chaos’s fault. If the empire tells his sons about Chaos then Chaos lingers and will corrupt them if he doesn’t then the Horus Heresy happens. Either way he’s screwed.
@@barbedmitten4475It's worth the risk given how things played out. The Emperor stole power from the chaos gods, all because he was in a rush to make his empire happen. This was just as much his fault, everything that transpired was a direct consequence of his actions.
@@barbedmitten4475 His sons would not have fallen to Chaos if he was a better father. Everything wrong with the current Imperium can be traced back to the Emperor having communication issues with his sons.
@@r1zmy But the thing is he tried communication with Logar and it failed which is why he then decides to raze Logar’s planet (which is extreme but his world is basically a mega-church devoted to the emperor) this then leads to logar corrupting horus. But if the emperor did not reprimand logar then logar keeps preaching and spreads the cult of the emperor. That cult would leave any city that it is one open to chaos because they now believe in a higher power (this includes logar himself.) This means logar still gets corrupted and Horus eventually gets corrupted
Magnus “wisdom is a dump stat” the Red
God "I am sure my paranoid secrecy and compulsive lying will not bite me in the ass later" Emperor of Mankind -_-
@stretopovermind9680 Funnily enough, Magnus had the same issue, and it caused a rift between him and his legion.
@@hilkmeister1382 like father like son
@@hilkmeister1382 Bad example is quickly learned.
@stretopovermind9680 Magnus did not learn that from the Emporer, but like the Emporer, he was incredibly arrogant and never self-reflected.
Nowadays Magnus sits around the imperial palace arguing with his paraplegic father, dense brother and a sentient banana. Also he plays red/blue… Add one to the counter
"YOU WANNA FOIGHT??!!"
"WHAAT?"
WOAAAAAH RED VS BLUE LIKE THE HALO SHOW⁉️🥶
@@_BananamanClose enough 😂
I would argue he did nothing wrong but playing blue is 40 mill on the wrong counter
I think my favorite part of The Heresy era is just how close it was to everything working out fine. If Big E had just sat down with each of His sons, let them speak freely and listened to them, and acted upon what they suggested, He would have been fine. If He hadn’t punished Lorgar so harshly, if He hadn’t set the weight of the Galaxy on Horus’ shoulders and instead made them all equals(or at least picked Guilliman or Vulkan who WERE RIGHT THERE), if He hadn’t banned Magnus from researching the Warp, He would have His thriving, web-way powered, agnostic, warp-free Imperium. Even if Horus and Lorgar still fell, He at least could have kept Magnus and Perturabo if He had just told them He was proud of them and to keep doing what they’re doing. He could have sat Motarion down and explained why He relied on the Warp currently and how the ultimate goal was its eradication but as it existed now He would use it as a tool, the same as any other dangerous weapon. He could have helped Fulgrim be rid of the Blade of the Laer. I fully believe that even if He had spoken with Curze and Angron they would still turn traitor, but that’s still either 14 legions on 4 legions or 13 on 5, depending on Alpharius/Omegon’s mood, instead of 9 on 9. I understand it was written to be why there’s 9v9 for the tabletop game, but from a storytelling perspective Big E was just so close to His vision and if He had embraced His own humanity more than His ambition and not-god-but-definitely-your-immortal-Uber-powerful-leader-godhood and *loved* His sons instead of treating them like tools to be used, He could have had it. That’s what makes the current state of the Imperium so tragic and yet so full of hope. If Guilliman can find his brothers and unite the Galaxy again, there might actually be a timeline where humanity lives to see 50K.
saying "make no mistake" to your most neurotically perfectionist son didnt do great
No matter what the Emperor would do, eventually Chaos would have their way, as the saying goes "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong"
I mean part of the point of 40K is that the Emperor was a bad leader and bad father. When all you do is tell, and never listen, punish, and never teach, you're going to damage your kids. The dysfunctional family is a microcosm of the dysfunctional government that care more about it's pride and it's leaders than it's people. We get to see what went wrong with such clarity that maybe it'll be easier to see what's going wrong with our world, and do better.
Damn, you are right xD
to be completely fair, most of humanities issues come from lack of communication in both real life and warhammer 40k.You can attribute almost every single issue that exists to some form of communcation. The emperor was still a human, even if his body wasn't and his mind was more knowledgable than any other human, he still had a human brain
*Ahriman:* So when are we retiring and sipping wine?
*Magnus about to f- up the whole legion:* That's the neat part, you won't.
Abra Cadabra, Red's a Must, your body is now a buncha Dust! The thousand sons are super cool, I may have undersold how damn powerful their sorcerers are. Just know, they go crazy insaneo style, they might even warrant their own video one day...
Magnus did everything wrong
@@TheGoodCrusader Nope. But he sure had a lot of learning opportunities.
All is dust!
@@TheGoodCrusaderCounterpoint: He very literally did nothing wrong, as he was told to do nothing and _did nothing wrong._
Magnus did "Nothing" wrong. He was told to do nothing. He did it wrong.
Thousand Sons have always been my fav chaos marine chapter. I think Magnus' story is more tragedy and masterful manipulation rather than outright stupidity as this video made it out to be, but it was still great and hilarious as are all of Krak's videos! Love your stuff!
Magnus's tragedy was getting lost in fantasies of a better future. That's why he's Tzeentch's most powerful daemon prince. I wouldn't call it outright stupidity, but he was an incredibly naive, arrogant person walking blind into the abyss.
Magnus did nothing wrong ❌
Magnus did the best he could with the information he had available at the time ✅
Even threw in a free stress test. Those are surprisingly expensive if you hire a contractor.
Good point 😅👍
The worst of it is, Magnus damaging the Webway could have easily been avoided if the Emperor hadn't kept the secrets of the warp from the Primarchs and warned them about the Chaos Gods. It wouldn't have even needed to be the whole story, just enough info to make them be careful and not bother him till the Webway was done. TLDR, Problems in Warhammer can be solved by simple conversations, but everyone thinks they know better.
Magnus did the worst with the information he had available
@@lakotawilbourne673Yeah most of the issues from the HH come from the Big E being blind to his actions.
Magnus did many things wrong - but that doesn't mean his story isn't tragic
He was told to do nothing, and still did that wrong
King Crimson supporting the Crimson King, eh?
magnus being told do "nothing" and he fail
@@woaddragon he did nothing, wrong
@@evoluxman9935 nice
I'm still pretty new to the lore, but the fall of Magnus to me was the result of the big E failling his son. The Emperor knew of the warp and its temptations yet gave no warning or guidance to Magnus.
Completely fair take, the other side of the argument is that Magnus’ confidence in his abilities was massive so he probably would have tried something that would quite literally blow up in his face even if he was told about Chaos. Not definitely but something to think about.
Well, no use to tell him not to do the psyker stuff
@Fyrverk but that's kinda what the Emperor did do rather than say, "Hey, you're stupid powerful, and these evil gods will try to corrupt you". Or anything to prepare him.
@@NxtReaper someone can correct me if im wrong but from my understanding the emperor(pre heresy and beginning of the great crusade) didnt want to tell everyone, even his sons about the warp(technically speaking he did he just didnt directly spell it out for them) was because the warp gods are fueled by the emotions and beliefs of people in real space. If most of humanity in 40k didnt know about khorne, slanesh, etc, then those gods would have a harder time amassing power. Also the emperor didnt directly tell them about the warp gods was because he knew that even though they were powerful, they would still be able to be corrupted by them. There was a line where Rogal Dorn was talking to Malkador the Sigilite and Malkador literally states even had they directly known about it, Dorn for example, in his eagerness to chase knowledge would've gotten corrupted aswell at some point, so it was better to mostly keep them, as well as the mosot of humanity in the dark about it
What fall? Magnus did nothing wrong
If only the Emperor..y'know..TOLD MAGNUS ABOUT CHAOS.. everything would of been fine.
Doubt it, Magnus has Big E's ego if nothing else. Dude would have probably willingly made a deal with Tzeentch thinking "nah I'm different"
@@chronovac Nah, Magnus approach to the Warp was a lot more rational than Big "I'll ignore it and it'll go away" E's.
@@stretopovermind9680that's literally the best approach to dealing with the warp lmao
@@chronovac beginner fent users thinking they're built different/the special one only to end up becoming another fent addict on the streets energy😂
@stretopovermind9680 What are you talking about? Big E set out on a crusade across the galaxy to stomp out and strangle the chaos gods from existence.
The fact it keeps getting reduced to 1000 is hilarious ngl
Lmao yeah, change your name to the 1 million sons or something what are they stupid?
The best part of Thousand Sons VS Space Wolves is their shared weakness; A vacuum cleaner.
As the saying goes:
"Magnus did the best he could with the information available to him at the time"
Agree with the powerfull chaos god
@@timothymiata1384hard not to when your dad doesn't show you cool psychic stuff so the psychic tentacle talks to you about GTA 6 xd
The Imperium lost more with the senseless burning of Prospero than Magnus and the TS ever did.
"I PUNCHED OUT ONE OF HIS HEART'S (@6:47) HOW DOES EVERYONE FORGET THIS!" - Magnus
Funnily enough as a space wolves player my first few matches was against a veteran Thousand sons player. They were surprisingly supportive gave me a lot of tips. He and I are now like rivals/buddies now and we test new armies against each other from time to time.
My favorite part of the Battle of the Fang is when Magnus actually materializes in the Space Wolves' home base and Bjorn the Chad-Handed sees the 10-foot-tall daemon primarch, starts blasting him with plasma, and tackles the big red idiot off a cliff.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Magnus the Nerd?
I can't...
I thought not... It's not a story the Imperium would tell you... It's a Chaos Legend.
Alright, there is no Space Wolfs arraund.
Now we all can say that Magnus did nothing wrong.
Also love the theory that Blood Ravens are in fact a succesor chapter of the Thousand Sons.
Nothing except cause a massive warp rift in the throne room of Terra using forbidden sorcery instead of an astropath, courier, or going in person to deliver the message.
@@hilkmeister1382 Oh, if only Big E was not such a hypocrite during the Council of Nicaea or such a paranoid fool warning no one about this whole big blue wall in the Warp, or if only he could restrain himself and not send one of the most *_idiotic_* primarchs to deal with a *_very_*_ delicate_ situation on Prospero...
But sure, let's blame Magnus for something he had no way of knowing beforehand.
@@stretopovermind9680 Not excusing the Emporer for being a hypocrite but that doesn't mean Magnus had to be a reckless fool when delivering information that could have saved billions of lives.
@@stretopovermind9680Magnus don't touch that touches it anyways sure big e takes a little bit of the blame but so does Magnus
@@Nugundamsisntforshow thats like your parents telling you you cant use the phone, a murderer breaks in, you go to call your dad on the phone (it seems like a reasonable reasno to break the rule he gave you with no explanation) and the whole neighborhood explodes because you dialed in his cell number. No possible way for magnus to have known the consequences without the emperor telling him anything more than "yeah dont do it cause i said so"
I honestly feel bad for Magnus and his sons. I mean, they almost always got the short end of the stick. Their mutations, being scholars but lacking _key_ information, everything going south just before retiring to a peaceful life, Magnus being genuinely noble but being horribly manipulated and naive. And now they're being controlled by chaos forces just because at least they don't treat them as failures.
Magnus the Nerd and the thousand sads.
its insane how everything magnus did that was wrong was not caused by his malevolence, but rather a lack of IQ
I always call them the shadow wizard money gang
The rubric marines are not just dust but they’re consciousness are in a ocean like purgatory where there is nothing except falling deeper
All Is Dust, the short story from the perspective of a rubric marine, is honestly horrifying as fuck.
@@thatguy9569 so fucked up
This is one of the best, if not THE best Krakduk video. Truly a Wizardry moment.
Magnus did the wrong things for the right reasons. Tho personally I do hold him accountable for the webway collapse. But again the emperor should’ve seen the primarchs as sons and not tools. If he told them beings who claim to be gods exist and they will try and trick you then he could’ve saved everything
Gw and bad writing like peanut butter and jelly
How appropriate, given the timing Duk, plus The Ksons are some of my favourite characters anyway so this is good.
A video about some egyptian sorcerers from warhammer? Hooray! I've been waiting for a Necrons video for forever!
99.9k subs come on guys let's get this done for Krak Duk, one of the best, if not THE best new 40k channels!!!
The Emperor should objectively be part of the Wrong counter as well. If Magnus was so important and was meant as a contingency both he and Malcador should have kept him closer then just an arm's length and did more to tutor the Pysker Primarch. The man is equal to a Beta Plus Pysker and probably not too far behind of a Gamma Plus Pysker like the Emperor and the Cacodominus within the Pysker tiering system. Especially if he was supposed to be the next one to sit on the Golden Throne. The Emperor was a shortsighted moron to not let Magnus in on his plans and intentions and not disciplining more often about the true dangers in the Warp and giving him strong incentives and agencies to be more aware at all times and make him more resistant to his arrogant traits. Boy would that have avoided many self sabotaging events and enemies and problems later on. But of course he keeps too many secrets to himself when they are more appropriate to warn his most important sons.
He wasted a great pysker power that was right next to him. Talk about a extremely strategic, tactical, and logistic mistake in preparing for the situation. He should have taken more urgent action and know one of the Chaos gods would be looking forward to influence him but nope. Instead he doubled down and it backfired badly. That's more then just a simple "Oops".
Or he outplanned Tzeentch and foresaw the 1000 Sons becoming the Necrons. Except those are still vulnerable to corruption, but are more into rigid order than the rest of the chaos gods.
What do you mean? The Emperor managed to brilliantly outplay the Changer of Ways by preparing one of his Primarch sons as a poisoned chalice.
Tempting the god of sorcerers with the most powerful psycher in the galaxy, but engineered down to his deepest core to be a self-destructive fuck-up incapable of ever accomplishing anything but harming whatever goal he set out to accomplish. And when Tzeentch made Magnus into a Daemon Prince, Magnus was thus made a part of his patron god. That self-sabotage is now a part of Tzeentch down to his own core, and thanks to the atemporal nature of the Warp, has always been. The Emperor managed to permanently cripple the most dangerous of the Chaos Gods so hard that his entire nature turned against itself.
It was a close thing. The Emperor obviously underestimated how blindly loyal Magnus could be, ignoring provocation after provocation. Igoring the faulty genetic engineering that left his legion subject to random mutations, taking the humiliation of the Council of Nikea on the chin, and even after the burning of Prospero and the Emperor's best friend destroying the piece of Magnus' soul most inclined to loyalty still harbored a desire deep down to return to the fold. But the Emperor managed to avoid being stuck with his own genetically engineered perfect fuck-up by recalling how much Magnus loved his sons and offering him the chance to return to the fold in exchange for the lives of his sons, knowing that would be what it took to permanently drive Magnus away into the waiting arms of Tzeentch.
@@YouthRightsRadical
That's just stupid.
@@YouthRightsRadical
That is really dumb. Again the narrative was explicit that Magnus was supposed to be a contingency to sit on the Golden Throne. The Emperor did nothing to condition and raise him properly to resist chaos.
Again that is dumb and a strageic failure on the Emperor's part. A big strageic failure that ended up sabotaging himself.
@@thorshammer7883 If the Emperor wanted Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne, he could have made him sitting on the Golden Throne his condition for letting Magnus back into the fold instead of making the condition the sacrifice of his sons. The Emperor thus obviously didn't want Magnus sitting on the throne, but wanted him to sell himself to Tzeentch.
I'm just speculating on why the Emperor might have wanted Tzeentch to have Magnus.
Magnus the Prime example of "good initiative bad judgement"
I'm glad you dropped this vid before I could get space marine 2. This is because I'm new to Warhammer and needed the ITSA ("Information To Stay Alive" if you will), WITHOUT having to track down the needed books or listen to a fan explain the entire lore for hours. No, this bite size video, plus the ones on the Tyranids and ultramarines are exactly what I needed without too many spoilers (plus Salamanders, cuz I like green... And flamers), while ALSO dealing with hurricane Francine and helping my community afterwards. Thanks KrakDuk for providing the info in a manner that didn't bore me to heck. You do great work for the emperor.
Accidentaly clicked on a Drim Dawk video thinking it was yours, and was wondering what happened to the comedic tone. No one else.will ever match your skill, charm, and fantastic artwork.
Video starts at 1:24
Thank you
Appreciate it
I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again here. I think Magnus' biggest flaw wasn't his arrogance, but his optimism. He believed in his father's dream of a peaceful galactic utopia more than anyone. Even some of his loyalist brothers were uninterested in that. It was naive of him to believe any good was ever destined for humanity while it was still such a fearful race, no matter how hard he fought for enlightenment. His biggest mistake was to put all his faith in the intelligence of others, arrogantly believing he could win them over with logic and passion. If only he knew this was Warhammer, not Star Trek.
“I punched out one of his hearts! How come nobody remembers that?!”
I watched some random clip of henry cavill talking abt his fav legions, salamanders and blood angels. So i searched up salamanders and ur vid was one of the first that popped up. After watching it, i watched all ur other vids and subscribed. Love creators who actually put effort into the stuff they make whether it be fun editing or animation or both 👌💖. Im not even that into 40k, just played the 2 space marine games lol.
Whenever chaos is mentioned, I have to point out how the Crimson Slaughter is one of, if not THE best and most interesting chaos warbands of all. They have a tragic and detailed history, and even as recently as Arks Of Omen, Abaddon was like "Those guys are really cool, I can even trust Kranon the Relentless to manage a mission of their own!" when trying to assemble relics and space hulks. A video about them would be SO cool!
I feel like the thousand sons are one of the most interesting faction in 40k, since of all the people involved in the Horus Heresy, they're the only chaos faction that was trying to stop it. They fell backwards into chaos, by trying to fight it, and they might have even managed if the emperor was willing to pay attention to them for literally ten seconds.
This video has caused me to fall in love with the Thousand Sons, thank you Krak, these guys are cool as hell, and i want to do more research on them now
10:57 Not the white pharaoh! 😭
Seriously, some of your jokes are spot on my man! It was cool seeing these guys in the most recent game and got someone like me who doesn't know a whole lot of lore, learning about them was also cool. Keep up the great work!
My favorite chapter! Every point you made for "Magnus wrong" was really the emperor's fault if you really break it down. Had the emperor (who is also in league with chaos, supposedly) taught Magnus how to use the warp properly, humanity would be way better off. All of humanity's struggles stem from the emperor.
But then Chaos is further from being eradicated as you now have one of the best pykers in the galaxy both knowing about the Chaos gods and actively using all of his power
Noticed a small lore error in the vid
The final Magnus wrong counter should sit somewhere around 0
Happy to help! 🙂
Keep coping heretic
@@milliman4you keep coping loyalist
@milliman4 who's imperium is cut in two?
@@milliman4aint it ur ‘god’ emperor at fault 🙂↔️
There was all that time he spent serving the worst tyrant in human history, but Magnus did eventually come to understand the error of his ways.
Man you are growing fast like 4k subs in 2 days. You are close to 100k. Love you brother
Good shit brother. Glad you’re getting sponsors and still growing.
"Magnus is the most powerful psyker in the setting"
The Emperor is displeased
Thousand Sons are my favorite chaos legion their aesthetic and lore is just top notch. And I’ll stand by the less used meme of “Magnus did the best he could with the knowledge he had at hand”
“I RIPPED OUT ONE OF HIS HEARTS. WHY DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THAT?!” -Magnus on his battle with Russ.
Praying my nurgly boys will get covered
11:30 IROOOOOOOOON WARRIORS!
(Please, my Primarch will kill me if I fail to convince you)
Thanks!
Hey thanks a lot! No problem, I love making these vids!
No, Magnus could not just send a ship or an asteopathic message.
Do you think the warp gods would have allowed that?
Magnus realized a major conspiracy was taking place.
Using astropathic relays and ships would have been easily noticed by the conspirators even if no warp gods were involved.
He did what he understood to be best on the information he had.
This, he knew he was cornered, specially since he kept breaking Big E. rules. A wrong call and he would be called a traitor.
Unless I’m misremembering, I thought the biggest factor was time. He just thought he wouldn’t make it in time if he flew there so he chose his method instead.
@@daltoneverhardt377 Yeah. Given warp time distortion, one wrong turn in a ship could make him disappear for years, and he'd be too late. In his eyes, the only surefire way to securely warn Big E was to shatter the psychic shield.
That third transformation was truly horrifying, especially that poor sod on the bottom right
Mr Sandman, bring me a dream! Bring me the greatest demon you've ever seen!
This may be my favorite 40k channel! 🎉🎉🎉 love the content, absolutely love the fun artwork, great host personality.
Man, as someone who just got into Warhammer and crave lore in a nice, fun way and don't have time to read books, I absolutely love your videos! Please never stop
I love the passive agressiveness of your take on Magnus and his Legion, hopefully you also make a video about Angron and the World Eaters.
Tbh, Magnus isn't that wrong. His astral projetion was probably due to fear of other messages getting intercepted, which was valid considering the message to the space wolf's was intercepted. Yeah he got tricked by a chaos god in times of desperation, but like who doesn't. I also understand why he became a traitor, as fromm his perspective, it seems like the emporer sent the space wolves to kill him and his children for the mistake of trying to warn the emporer
Congratulations on the sponsorship!
Imperial webway project also known as ‘the emperor is trying to steal the eldar’s stuff and evict them from their house’
6:54 “I PUNCHED OUT ONE OF HIS HEARTS! WHY DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THAT?!”
Glad to see your channel doing well. Your content is great man, keep it up.
Thank you for making this video and others. I love your way of talking lore so please continue to make more videos
OUR BOY GOT OFFICIAL SPONSORS NOW WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Stiffing funny dust I found in a metal boot, now I am questioning everything
You know, it's not like Magus could make informed decisions at the time.
FOR
SOME
REASON!
(looking at you, Emperor!)
Hey dude, I have a particular request for a WH40K video, and many would find this really interesting. A video about loyalist Astartes from TRAITOR LEGIONS, as in marines who gave the middle finger to their primarchs and stood loyal to the emperor, either from Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, Deathguard, Luna Wolves, etc..
Bro!! You are bout to hit a 100K!!!! Congratulations 🍾
I like how many pretty colors they’re made of. Red gets boring after awhile but heretical warp confetti is just a better spectacle.
You'd think the Emperor would tell and warn Magnus about wtf is actually in the Warp and the danger that comes to it, since Magnus himself is a crazy psycher genius who is still clueless about what's actually in the 'great ocean', but naurrrrrrrr we loveeee a shut in & emotionally disconnected dad
What's funny if those emperor's children decided to snort the thousand sons dust like cocaine.
3:31 my live reaction was almost those exact words how did you know
Opening up with a Skylanders reference is goated
The Necron stole the thousand sons Drip
Magnus: "Yes, we already sent the cease and desist letter..."
"Magnus did nothing wrong, as in I told him to do nothing and he managed to screw that up to" - The Emperor
Love seeing my boy get sponsored. Lets go Krakduk
Literally, "If something can go wrong, then it will definitely go wrong."
I watched the video yesterday, but came back just for the "neeeeds" at 09:12. This is funny af
you are fast becoming my favourite 40k lore channel. accessible, great hype, fantastic og art, MajorKill without the dick jokes.
I think you should cover the Emperor's Children next. They in my eyes had the best fall to chaos stories. They are truly the greatest example of flying so high and sinking the absolute lowest
How much fun did you have narating this video? Those crash bandicoot noises are great.
Add another one on the board for everytime Magnus feints being sad about his sons dying, only to be plotting their deaths the whole time
I LOVE your "woooaaaaho" it's so good lol
Thousand sons: “I cast FIREBALL!”
Salamanders: wheezing laughter
just beat sm2
great timing for the video🙏
also kinda hope blood ravens being thousand sons successors is true
I think the tag line for the Thousand Sons would be “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions”. Since Magnus did many things wrong, that ultimately damned him and his sons, but with good intent behind his actions. Even Ahriman had this same issue with his Rubric. It just feels like a good quote that fits their story imo
Awesome channel! Found it yesterday and have been been benchin your videos, hilarious!
Im convinced Magnus was the Tzeentch character as in 99.99999999999% of alternate dimensions he is good. Its just there were so many decisions Tzeentch pushed him down to make him this way. He is Tzeentch's Magnum (nearly Magnus) Opus
The knowledge bit was a blast from UA-cam past
I also really love the death guard and since Nurgle is the opposite of Tzeentch this could be a cool topic to cover next
They look super cool! The Egyptian theme is rad :D
At first, I wasn’t sure about them being the big bad of space marine 2 but honestly, I’m glad now that they were chosen. They are so different compared to every other legion and it work great for the twist/ reveal.
We don't get a lot of representation. We'll take it, even if it's just as punching bags for Mr. Badass McUltramarine.
Pitch Guy: and then there were 1000 sons left...
Producer Guy: hey, that's the name of the Chapter!
Pitch Guy: it sure is, sir!
Now i highly doubt this will happen, but it would be really cool as a major final battle against angron that the lion and blue boy fight angron and magnus, just for that one grey knight to scrifice himself to save one of them, when he foes this, that final piece of magnus brings him to his senses. It might be too late for redemption, but he definitely could severely weaken angron with his powers. Like getting that piece reverts him back to his pre heresy self. Magnus literally being the one to offer his hand to guilliman yo help him up while asking "what has happened to us brother?"
Magnus “I dunno how things got this bad” The Red.