Timothy McVeigh Murders | Mental Health & Personality
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- This video answers the questions: Can I analyze the Timothy McVeigh murders (Oklahoma City bombing)? What are the mental health and personality factors at work in this case? Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
Linder, D. (2007). The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Trial of Timothy McVeigh. SSRN Electronic Journal. doi:10.2139/ssrn.1030565
Madeira, J. L. (n.d.). Blood relations: Collective memory, cultural trauma, and the prosecution and execution of timothy McVeigh. Studies in Law, Politics and Society, 75-138. doi:10.1016/s1059-4337(08)45003-2
Lokaneeta, J. (2004), "REVENGE AND THE SPECTACULAR EXECUTION: THE TIMOTHY MCVEIGH CASE", Studies in Law, Politics and Society (Studies in Law, Politics, and Society, Vol. 33), Emerald Group Publishing Limited, Bingley, pp. 201-221
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Meloy, J. R. (2004). Indirect Personality Assessment of the Violent True Believer. Journal of Personality Assessment, 82(2), 138-146. doi:10.1207/s15327752jpa8202_2
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I was in Oklahoma City at work when this happened. I didn’t hear an explosion, but my computer screen started rocking back and forth, so I knew something serious had happened. The news reported it very shortly. I knew two people who died...Karen Gist Carr, and Kimberly Clark. 😢 🙏🏻 🕊
Sorry for your loss.
A friend said EVERYBODY heard it. A different friend told me it knocked her down. She worked in an office downtown. A few blocks from it. Animal deserved death and he got it.
@@sterioapple yeah I believe it. People underestimate how far reaching a large explosion is. A couple of years ago, a whole small shopping area (sort of like a small strip mall) in our town exploded. It wasn’t a terrorist thing it was a gas leak or something. The aftermath looked sort of like the OKC bomb though. Thankfully it was a Sunday morning and no one was at those places yet and the few people that were were evacuated. We were several miles away in a warehouse kind of building and it sounded like someone hit the bay doors with a metal pipe.
@@derekpascal3749 Oy Vey... :-)
Shame.
Anybody interested in Dr Grandes’ take on L. Ron Hubbard?
Definitely
Yes, but I wouldn't want him being targeted by his 'flock'.
OMG YES!
Absolutely.
I've posted this a few times. Though, Hubbard and his megalomaniacal creation, Scientology, is a quagmire of rabbit holes. Still, I totally agree on covering him in an episode, but you might need two parts.
" He would have made an interesting contestant on the dating game " 😬
LMBO!!!!
Kind of like when Monty Python did that game show with communist leaders and asked them a bunch of soccer trivia.
*the apocalypse edition😌 🤣
@Liza Tanzawa He got picked but the girl figured out in no time that he was bad news and refused to go on a date with him.
Eeeek!
I just accidentally ran across this older video of yours. I have to say the McVeigh's mental issues may have very well been hereditary. His mother was committed, involuntarily, three times, and for many years following the bombing imagined things like conspiracy theories just as her son did. As an addition to all this my husband had a personal stake in all this. He was a Federal agent in TX at the time and was brought to OKC to help with evidence and recovery. There was no recovery. He, and the men he brought with him, found bodies in bags piled up out back and he was told to set up a morgue in a church across the street. He was the lead agent who was the first to open each and every body bag to obtain evidence and identification. He had worked with three of those he had found when he opened the bags. The children were the worst. He suffered through for three years, continuing to work a grueling schedule, trying to forget all he dealt with, and had a breakdown in 1998. He did seek extensive counseling but was diagnosed with severe and chronic PTSD. His nightmares and flashbacks were terrible. He was out of work for a year but eventually recovered, or, at least maintained his mental health. It never went away but he's learned to deal with it through his extensive treatment, for which I am grateful. He had even been suicidal during that year and also had a couple of short relapses. At least no suicide attempts were ever made and he retired normally at the normal retirement age for Federal LE. I have this to say about the McVeighs. It seems to me that mental illness in both mother and son went unrecognized by everyone. No one saw red flags, not even the military. During the years following the bombing his mother exhibited even more disturbing mental behavior and was extremely paranoid and talked about conspiracies. She also claimed the number of people who died in the bombing was no big deal because plane crashes and such happen all the time and even more people die from other things. She claimed people followed her and conspired against her. Some of accusations were outrageous. There was a pattern there, even though son and mother had been separated for several years. I know this is a long post but thought I could add some additional things to the story. So many victims came out of this one event, caused by severe mental illness in one family. My husband was lucky, there were suicides that followed OKC among the recovery/LE staff there. I don't think anyone will ever be the same, not the families of the victims, nor the first responders who worked on the aftermath.
I have no sympathy for your husband. Don't do a pig's job if you can't handle darkness.
@@zneytram1432 He never heard of her. He was USSS, there because they had an office in the building. Go laugh at something else.
Sorry you and your Husband had to deal with that HBC.
Your post is a reminder to all that the victims spread far and wide from the bombing and are not only confined to those in the building. So sorry for everything your husband has gone through - I can't even imagine having to deal with what he did - and what you and your family have gone through because of it.
Was McVeigh a government patsy like that man at the massacre in Las Vegas?
161 consecutive life sentences: In the words of the late Richard Pryor (The comedian) "Does that mean' if you die, and you come back again you gotta go to the penitentiary?"
Do they stack?
Xeokym lolz
@@musiconly4845 😙
We all know what often happens when someone gets a "life" sentence, They were just making sure he never got out.
Carolyn Nolan they made extra sure
I remember that day it was my daughters first day of kindergarten...I was trying not to cry when I picked her up.
Appreciate all that you do Dr. Grande! 🙏
How is she doing now?
1:07 When I was a teenager in the early 80s I was pretty convinced that I was going to die in a nuclear war. The Cold War was kinda scary, especially since both of my parents survived WWII and immigrated to the USA after escaping from an Iron Curtain country. I had an insider view of communism.
The first time I heard a sonic boom I was visiting my step-sister in Kansas and I was helping weed the garden. I never knew there were sonic booms, never heard anyone talk about sonic booms. I had always heard my Mom say not to worry, if The Bomb was dropped we would die in the first waves because of our location. There I am, on my knees in the dirt, pulling weeds, hot, miserable and a huge boom shook the air, the ground, just everything. I thought that's The Bomb, this is it. I sat back and waited for the shockwave to kill me. After what seemed like forever I noticed sister was still weeding the garden and finally managed to ask what the noise was, sonic boom. I carried on like nothing happened but I totally ate all the raw cookie dough I wanted that evening.
Vegas Cycling Freak Government manipulated us with fear to have our support for military spending and media sold a lot of paper and earned rating playing us along.
@Evolved Primate Stalin wasn’t a dictator?
@Evolved Primate What does that have to do with the 1980s?
@Monke that is the problem. The issue IS communism. This is because it’s a system which tends towards absolute dictators and an established 1% class.
That’s the whole argument from the right.
Nobody thinks the idea of everyone sharing, and creating a benevolent world is a bad thing. The problem has always been, communism is a system which is incredibly vulnerable to dictators and authoritarianism.
So, you can’t say “the issue isn’t communism it’s authoritarian dictatorship” as the two are linked like smoking and cancer.
The issue with what you are saying, is it may give false hope to people that if we just get the communism right, this time (after multiple failures) then all will be well and we can live in an egalitarian and equal world.
It’s the “wrong sort of communism” argument we see from students and radical left in campus. My own educators said “all attempts at communism have just been state capitlaism” which has so many problems with it, it’s not even funny,
You’d be better off saying “the problem isn’t communism, but it’s inherent weakness in allowing takeovers from authoritarians”
It’s best to leave communism to the realm of theoretical ideas, because there is zero possibilities you can create a class of rulers who only have others interest at heart.
Loving the upload frequency, dude, you're awesome. I'd also love to see a video on Ricardo Lopez, the Bjork stalker.
Wow, good suggestion
I just came from that Ricardo Lopez video. It was fantastic. Björk is one of my favorite artists. So glad she wasn't harmed.
Yes!
That last video of his is gnarly.
Without going into graphic detail, it's much worse to hear than see.
I remember this case, and I was just watching Saving Grace which is about a lady that survived but lost a family member in Oklahoma. I found it interesting that he turned down all of his Appeals and went right for the death penalty. At the time I was thinking oh good. After listening to your analysis it's too bad that he had such a hard life and if he had gotten the help he needed this might not have happened
Doctor, you always say at the end of the video, that you're hoping we find your analysis of this topic interesting. Well, let me say to you: "I found the video extremely interesting". Thanks, Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
I hope you're willing to do once a 'Deep dive video' about Schizotypal Personality Disorder. Would be awesome, doc 🙌
pocoeagle2 : There are I believe 5 types of schizophrenia, or so it said in the last article I read. Some guy on Imgur posted that his dad worked with Ted Bundy his dad would say every Friday "see you on Monday, Bundy ". He added that he was surprised he didn't kill him. Too close I am guessing.
Fascinating. I have lived in Oklahoma my whole life. This was such a terrible crime against so many innocents. Your analysis makes so much sense.
I was in Tulsa at the time of the attack, it was a really disturbing time to have an American kill so many other Americans. And it's even sadder to think that McVey simply was a person with wierd beliefs that were part of schizotypal thinking fuelled by frustration and narcissism. Undoubtedly, there are more people like him potentially out there.
@Josh James No comparison. Waco was a violent cult that was breaking the law.
@Josh James The Branch Davidians were given an opportunity to surrender.
I do not share your love for anarchy and a nihilistic conceptualization of human freedom.
@Josh James I refuse to be an apologist for criminal cultists.
No gov employees are innocent
“Connecting over paranoid view of life ... and distrust.” 😄
I see how the use of movies as both a good force and also as an evil...can be used. I feel sad he did not have an upbringing of love where he could develop a sense of trust. What I see in this is we must develop a sense of forgiveness and take in needy children, so they can develop a sense of forgiveness thru us. 😀😂😀
Thankyou, Dr. Grande.☘️😄☘️
Right, but the age old questions is, how do we do this for all children?
POLARBEARSRUS Answer: Stop having so much sex and make less babies.
@@smallbee1234 Agree on the babies part, people have far too many children. However, there's nothing wrong with good sex if you practice birth control.
I agree. I’m teaching my 10 year old about forgiveness. Trust is earned.
The man witnessed the federal government massacrre a bunch of cultists under questionable justification live on television.Of course people would get pissed off at that.
This is such a sad situation. So many innocent lives lost. And so
Many children. 💔
Another sad example of a bullied child who grows up to wreak havoc on the innocent.
Hard to make sense of such tragedies.
Thank you Dr Grande for sharing this analysis....thoughtful and informative. ❤️🙏.
Very easy to make sense of. The federal government gave him medals to kill people overseas while simultaneously murdering people at ruby ridge and waco. McVeigh said enough was enough and he took a stand against tyranny.
Nah, he had anger against state because of Waco and other atrocitites commited by the state. Has nothing to do with him being "bullied".
@@GratDuForloradeArgumentet coz you know.
I would like to thank you for your honest and scientific analysis of a wide variety of mental conditions. I’m a person with ASD and psychology and human behaviour is a fascinating mystery to me.
While rhetorical questions are the bane of my existence, you’re scientific approach (with appropriate disclaimers) is incredibly helpful in identifying harmful personality traits.
Thank you so much for sharing your professional experience with us!
OMG...My Dad worked Downtown in our City, and it was right across from the FBI building, so he was sent home when news of this was starting to go around. Me and my sister saw it before my Dad got home, but, I just remember being really scared...we were homeschooled...my Mom worked too, she was closer, like very close, at a Library. This was a rough one Dr. Grande...got a lot of memories on this one.
Who was homeschooling you and your sister if both parents worked? Just wondering ....
@@judepower4425 yeah... um me, I did it myself from elementary thru 12th grade...it was like a hippie school, "everything's learning", it was a weird counterpart to being raised in a, supposedly, Christian doomsday cult, so yeah, none of it was normal if thats what you're asking 😉
The picture of that blasted building will be in my mind forever. The number of dead, and injured - beyond belief. Thank you, Dr Grande.
I lived in a building next door to the Bombing Memorial in OKC. You could still see marks on the building from the bombing on the building I lived in. I was a teen when it happened and was in school that morning in a town about 20 miles away. We were all terrified!
So many criminals ruin their chances of escape by disregarding small details. Another situation where a license plate issue gets a person busted. Is it fate? Is it stupidity? Idk but I find it fascinating
He wanted to be caught, he wanted the infamy
It was just good luck that he was stopped before he went on to bigger and greater destruction.
It really was fate because all police and highway patrol from all towns surrounding Oklahoma City were heading in to help with the injured
McVeigh was speeding a highway patrolman turned around and chased him McVeigh gave a fake name at first, had no i.d. and anti govt. and guns and 2A pamphlets scattered about in his front seat. After he was booked he started talking. He was in protective custody for his safety the crowd sure wanted him tho
@@Mimisheila21 It also aligns with those who have an unwavering sovereign citizen ideology. They all don't believe in registering their vehicles (have plates or jibberish mass produced plates), no driver's license and no insurance. There's a lot more anti-government rhetoric they believe in and follow like not filing income taxes, pay property taxes, etc.
I wonder if there will ever be a day when we can recommend a friend to get mental or emotional help the same as we recommend a physical doctor. No one is shy to say, "Maybe you're diabetic." We should be able to say, "Maybe you should see someone professionally about your anger."
I wanted to say that to my dad: Now that you have all that pile of money, and it hasn't stopped your demons, maybe spend some of it on YOURSELF and get answers??? or a vacation??!!!
I was "liason" to an interesting Chinese lady who everyone avoided from about 2 p.m. onward, including her husband. I finally asked him if his wife was a diabetic. He didn't answer. In Mandarin, not answering is "YES".
Intelligent comment, and I hope one day we'll be able to do as you mention. The problem is the stigma of course. I have borderline personality disorder and am very open about it, partly as a way of telling people that my behaviour might at times appear unfathomable to them.... but also as an attempt to accustom people to talking openly about mental health problems.
many people already do this
@@reallyhappenings5597 I disagree. Not "many" people do, as Jozey Jones said.
I think there was a daycare center on the first floor. That's why so many children were killed. So very sad.
He called it Collateral damage. 🤦🏾♀️
Soldiers are trained to be ok with killing innocent people. This is what makes wars in Vietnam and Iraq possible. If soldiers refused to kill innocent people there would have been no Iraq war.
@@kirkjohnson9353 That is absolute, unadulterated horsesh*t. Because of the stressors in Vietnam, and with the number of Americans being killed soaring, a FEW lieutenants and other officers--or fewer!--snapped and committed atrocities or sanctioned extrajudicial killings that were outside of the scope of the articles of war. The ones who could be positively identified were duly prosecuted.
As for Iraq, the US military and its allies did absolutely EVERYTHING under their power to mitigate and minimize civilian casualties as much as possible, but the insurgents and Al-Qaeda, while they were firing at our forces, used the civilians and their houses and such to hide behind like the scared little cowards that they were.
Take your Leftist nonsense out of here. Disparaging our fighting forces is a tactic of losers. Without the US military you would either be a communist stooge working to enrich the "state," or a beheaded ex-slave of Muslim extremist hordes. Your conspiritard views are just what Dr. Grande was referencing in this video, amongst many others. Take your medicine!
@@JLHunter61 Re the last sentence of your first paragraph, remind me please, what sentences were imposed on the murderers of Mi Lai? A slap on the wrist if I recall, for murdering civilians, mainly women, kids and old people. There's an investigation going on in Australia right now into SAS troops killing civilians in Iraq and other troops covering it up.
@@judepower4425 People seem to forget that military personnel are just PEOPLE, and sometimes people snap and do terrible things. And of civilian casualties, I have but one reply: Look up the statistics for the number of suicides in the US military as of 2020. The number has SOARED. Yes, it seems that killing anyone, military OR civilian, exacts a terrible toll on many people, even "seasoned" military personnel. War is hell. Period.
Dr. Grande, you should also look at Andrei Chikitalo, I think it would be an interesting case, especially with the different nuances between growing up in the Soviet Union as opposed to growing up in the U.S.
Thank you for your point of view and the time spent for your analysis of this person!!
Interesting and in depth and always, thank you Dr. Grande
Dr. Grande. you pegged this pitiful man perfectly. Thanks for all the great content.
I can still recall the horror of all those parents losing their babies in that ground floor day care, and McVeigh just shrugging it off. It didn't matter to him, but it broke my heart.
Agree with most of what you’re saying, however, confabulation that being undesirable to women drove Timothy to the bombing is insane. Distrust in a government that freely murders its citizens with no repercussions, Ruby Ridge and Waco drove this man to his crime.
Waco was caused by cultists, not the government. The fire was started internally. What drove this man to kill was far right, white nationalistic impulses that you also clearly possess.
@@jhonklan3794 This comment goes to show that you have no clue what you’re talking about. Do the research. There hours of fbi tapes that prove you wrong.
I remember the trial was in Denver and it was a circus! Thanks Dr.G 😉 I’m loving all the great content
“He referred to himself as the Ultimate Warrior.” Sorry, but that title was already taken by James Hellwig when he wrestled for the old school World Wrestling Federation/WWF back in the day.
It was a sad, sad event. My husband and I delivered some goods to Oklahoma City a year after the bombing and the broken economy and emotional toll were still apparent.
Excuse me but no, we didn't have a busted economy it actually generated more work for alot of people. Now you are right about the emotional aspect
It took a toll on everyone
@@Mimisheila21 good to know, cuz it looked pretty bad to us.
Wow. Dr Grande , your channel is growing. I am feeling better so I have a lot of catching up to do as far as your videos. Hope you're well.
I sure enjoy these commentaries. Thank you.
Why do I like Dr. Grande’s voice so much?
Soothing, confident and strong....me too!!!
I like his mind as well as his voice
I just saw an article that said Timothy McVeigh was born in 1968 and his parents didn't separate until 1984 and the divorced in 1986 and he was 21 she left the small where Timothy McVeigh lived with his father. Might be worth checking out.
I'm from Oklahoma, but had been living out of state for a few years when the OKC bombing occured. My sister's ex-husband who had many severe mental issues his whole life, was an ex-marine. My mom, who was living in oklahoma at the time, had told me during a phone conversation that my ex-brother-in-law was being investigated by the FBI for possibly being involved. She said he was saying stuff in a bar in eastern oklahoma and freaked out some of the people there a couple of days before the bombing occured. I guess the FBI decided he wasn't involved. Some of my nephews and neices told me several years later that he was still bragging about being involved. I am terrified at the thought that he could have been involved, but not surprised. He was sadistic and psychopathic. He passed away a couple of years ago so we will never know for sure.
"Dating game apocalypse edition"???🤣🤣
In this episode of the dating game apocalypse edition, we have: Joel, who hoards toilet paper, Tom, zombie enthusiast, and Kyle, who can drink his own piss if the nuclear fallout poisoned the water.
I pick Joel
@@lizwinkelaar3613 I too appreciate a partner that can show me stability
Hahahahha. You are so funny.
REMAIN INDOORS!
I will take toilet paper for 10 Alex.
"If only" he'd gotten the help he needed when he was ten. Was it his father who filled his head full of "stuff"? Poor kid. Set up to fail by the looks of it. Doesn't excuse his actions but does explain it.
Terry Nichols
@@SPIDERM0OSE Set up by the circumstances, I'm pretty sure that's what she means.
He chose what he chose to do in life. I come from dysfunction junction. Buy I never blew a building filled with innocent people.
The Turner Diaries, and other right wing propaganda helped radicalize McVeigh.
there have been interviews with inlaws and outlaws; relatives once removed: they all go whack job. too much time isolated on the farm.
I know you probably get a lot of request, but if you’re not able to do it..I understand. Thanks so much for giving us your speculations and assessing these crimes.
This *was* an interesting analysis.
I wouldn't have guessed the direction you were going to take, but it makes sense.
This case is just a tragedy for McVeigh and all of his victims. The profundity of good parenting cannot be emphasized enough. ☹️
the FBI did the bombing. McVeigh's were patsies just like the Tsaernaev brothers the FBI did the fake boston marathon three bombs, the 3rd patsy was found early in the morning dead by the river by a female cop so they pretended the 3rd bomb was part of a drill
Good Parenting? I mean this arguably IS an example of Good Parenting, or McVeigh doing what he felt right. Remember the federal governmnt was cracking down hard on dissident right-wing groups, the same way they were fucking over left wing groups in 1960s-1980s. So it's not suprising that the dude would have a grudge against that.
@@carmineredd1198 Is every crime ever committed in America done by the FBI? Damn they must be super busy.
Mcveigh was a war hero! And had a great upbringing! He only did OKC to make up for the innocent men women and children the US government assassinated at Waco 2 years to the day prior…
@@carmineredd1198 I work for the FBI and we're watching you. 👀
The person to whom McVeigh was closest in this world was his sister. In a letter he wrote to her sometime prior to the OK City bombing, he claimed that he was engaged in serial criminal activity in the capacity of a deep-cover covert operative for the United States government. Also, a year or two prior to 1995, a documentary filmmaker who happened to be filming at a military facility where army personnel receive specialized training in explosives when he shot footage of himself briefly interacting with a man who clearly is either McVeigh himself or McVeigh's doppelganger. In the clip, the McVeigh "lookalike" appears to be extremely nervous and uncomfortable as if he does not want to be seen on camera at all. Bear in mind that this footage was captured AFTER McVeigh had officially been discharged from the military. There is definitely a lot more to McVeigh's true biography then we are told in the official narrative disseminated here by the good doctor. Incidentally, after McVeigh's arrest, the U.S. government immediately brought in none other than infamous CIA mind control expert and hypnotist Dr. Louis "Jolly" West all the way from southern California to interview and evaluate McVeigh. Are we to believe there were no other qualified psychologists/psychiatrists in the entire state of Oklahoma who could have performed that task?
I always find myself coming back to my Toddster's videos. They's just so good.
Great and informative video as always.
"He had at least 1 severe panic attack" me who has panic disorder: 😐
Ugh I feel you. And on top of that he was taking meth- all I can think is wtfff 🤦🏻♀️
He rented the truck from a place not even three miles from my childhood home. Scary to think it is so close to home.
He was extremely highly ranked in the army...much more than we know. He was one of the soldiers protecting Stormin Norman in the Gulf War. NO WAY do u get within the roar of an ass of the likes of him without MAJOR pull
Dr. Grande, I have a question concerning some of these cases and the presence of obsessive compulsive traits. I was diagnosed with OCD at age 18 and have been treated for it for almost nine years, thankfully with great success. It does disturb me to see that many of the killers described in this series seem to have obsessive and compulsive natures. Do you think that suffering from this form of anxiety disorder creates more of a proclivity for criminal behavior in a person? For me I feel it has the opposite effect, and makes me more nervous to do something that could be considered bad. But I’m sure it affects people in different ways.
Dr Grande; I offen have thought about individuals like this. With no apparent outward appearance of negative person or personality. Yet the horrendous acts he was convicted of and the damage to the family's he caused.
I did see the interview just before his execution. He apparently accepted his fait. So to speak he went down with the ship. Seems odd a person like this could have and should have been so much more to society. His failure to transition from childhood to adult. How many people are out there walking around? Will never know for sure.
Thank you doctor. Your lessons do provide valuable insight.
Be well sir
I find your analysis videos very interesting and insightful. Would you consider making a video about the Parker-Hulmes murder? I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about that case.
I still remember the horror of Waco, watching events unfold. I foolishly thought it would be the most horrific thing I would see ....then Oklahoma. Having 2 small children at the time I remember the sadness and feeling like everything was changing so drastically in the world. April was not a good month .... I never liked spring and then in 2006 my youngest son was born April 20 ....hope for the future.
@Will Toffan Is this supposed to be funny?
Don't be that supersticious, spring is just a season
My niece was born on April 20th 2006....funny
I'm sorry that you were traumatized by the Waco, Texas siege and the bombing in Oklahoma City. I admit that it is rather surprising that your youngest child was born on the seventh anniversary of the tragedy at Columbine High School. But my co-worker Jill has two sons; one was born on Halloween and the other was born on Friday the 13th.
@@michaellovely6601 8guests to get out
One of my favourite channels. Dr grande knows his stuff. 😍😍
He was actually executed on June 11th 2001. That said, great biography of McVeigh! Really interesting man.
Wonder how he would've felt about Nine/Eleven.
@@kingayy9267 if only we knew!
Dr.Grande, I love your witty comedy that you put into all of your analysis videos. 😄
Thank you for the detailed timeline and personality analysis, I have been waiting for this. So many factors seem to have been at play all very interesting in particular diverting his rage away from women to the government. What strange narratives a mind can create, sometimes with horrendous outcomes.
He did quote the poem ''Invictus'' by William Henley as almost an explanation which highlights his narcissism and lack of remorse.
Dr. Grande can you please do a video on Jared Harless a military soldier in San Antonio who killed his wife, 4 kids under 4, and his two pets cats recently.!Authorities called it a murder suicide but want drives these men to mentally wipe their families out. I would love to hear your speculation in regards to it and what to watch out for in a person that does this.
The true crime community call these people “Family Annihilators.” I agree! A video on this topic would be interesting!!
@@nmartin5551 oh that’s a new term for me. I’ll have to look it up
• Familicide is a term I’ve heard before
• A search for “Family annihilator” results in pages on _familicide_ only, with nonspecific pages mentioning annihilators. FA: “an individual who commits familicide, the act of killing his/her own relatives”
Though I found above “definition,” it really is not an official term and no official dictionary may be cited by the author of this text
What an amazing segment.
I understand being rejected and not understanding what happened, particularly what part one has played in such rejection. It took me a long time to realize that I don't know how to have relationships closer than friends and that it is almost entirely my fault. I also understand that closer relationships require a lot of understanding nonverbal cues, which I can't do for the most part, but I also cause other problems relating to insecurity. I hope that this is a curable affliction but, for right now, I'm avoiding any of those closer relationships because, not only am I tired of the heartache that it causes me, I have been the direct cause of heartache for others because I am presently decrepit. It's one thing for me to pursue those things before I understood as much as I do now about what's going on but now that I know I'm basically the entire problem, to continue pursuing those relationships would be to intentionally hurt others and I don't want to do that. I have a counselor so maybe there's hope for me but I have to get better before I am able not to make a painful mess of close relationships.
Same here !
You are addressing the problem in intelligent, compassionate ways. I have a lot of confidence that your problem will improve.
I just have autism and I try to tell people up front that I don't understand nonverbal cues and that it's perfectly fine for them to say something, even if they think it's rude. What I am coming to realize is that people don't necessarily even know that they are giving off any of these cues and, worse yet, not only do I not understand them, but I give them off too but always ones that I guess don't match with what other non-autistic people would give off. It usually results in a good laugh between friends but not so much in closer relationships. You just have to play with the cards you are dealt in life though and I have found that the best thing you can do is try to find contentment, not happiness since this should be a fleeting feeling, but contentment, even if that contentment comes from the notion that shit happens.
Great content Dr. Grande, I am very familiar with this case, because my first son was born in 1996. For some reason, I had trouble absorbing that a young man who served our country would plan and execute a plan to annihilate so many innocent lives.
I do find it interesting that he lived with his father sinced the age of 11and you mentioned, he was constantly bullied. Where were the parents? I think these formative years plagued by fear and abandonment by one or both parents played a big part in his life. It is common knowledge that children of divorced parents are often preyed upon by bullies. Where were the parents when this was happening? I would love to know more about Timothy McVeigh as a young child, and also about his parents, then andd now, even though it doesn't change the fact that so many souls left us too soon.
His (uncle?) was interviewed on his midwest farm and basically you're looking at rural, "Merica, Trump voting conspiracy types. Put them in the US military, that is re-enforced. Then he witnessed WACO. That set him off. One year to THE DAY, Oklahoma bombing happened. Midwest types seriously believe in the separation of church and state USA, and WACO told him in a nano-second ALL he was taught was a LIE. He snapped. His target? The FEDERAL government he had served so well.
@@Dwightstjohn-fo8ki McVeigh was from and raised in NY in a city, he was not from the Midwest even if an uncle lived there. It wasn't really political, he was mentally warped.
Hey Dr. Grande, have you done one on Stephen McDaniel? I'd be interested in knowing your take on him, including his almost catatonic responses when interviewed.
OMG. I literally just was talking to my dad about this.
That's mad Max.
Goodness! I was just thinking about this person two days ago and how I thought he's definitely a schizoid personality type! And wondering what an interesting topic for Dr. Grande to cover!
Same actually lol
Same
IKR!!!! I WAS just thinking of this the other day!!!
Very nice analysis
I'd be really interested to hear your take on the Norwegian black metal band "mayhem". the controversies and murders would be fascinating from your perspective and what mental health issues might have been involved in those cases.
@Rumple Stillborn I want to hear what kind of mental health issues go with huffing corpse musk.
It would have been interesting to see how he would have reacted to Covid-19....
His head would explode or he'd say I told you so
Thank you Dr. Grande for All of your informative and insightful videos, I’m working my way through your entire library. I am assuming your credentials are rather impressive. Keep the great videos coming. Let’s hear some of your choices, personal favorites. Thank you, Sir.
Often what a person doesn't do is just telling is what they actually do. Thanks Dr., Great video.
Another great video Dr Todd... I listen to your videos whilst working at night and they really are very well produced and informative and they help me get through my shifts.
I have a question: do you believe McVeigh was on the autism spectrum? As a person who is on the spectrum myself I can see parallels with certain aspects of his personality with myself.
Could you talk about EMDR and what constitutes trauma? I know you've gone over PTSD, but I guess I'd like more details because I was recently diagnosed.
I wish you the best and hope you are doing better soon, i don't even know what emsr is but I do know ptsd is. I'm sorry you are going through a tough time!
Eye Movement De-sensitization Training. My counselor has gone to recent conferences that are in a continuous improvement loop situation. The association looks at research, findings, and effectiveness. They then train the members to the new standard or practice.
The mental EMDR was found to be less effective. The physical eye movement, or tactile right/left inputs, combined with dexterity taxing physical movement that your mind is not used to allows for the trauma memory to be brought up then "violated", which is an unfortunate term for something helpful. It let's you incrementally put the memory back in a more adaptive manner, over time. It has helped me be more calm, as combined with mindfulness and exercise, which help start to form points of support so you can progress out of trauma and into adaptive happiness. Stay healthy, please!
@Rumple Stillborn don't give up, she sounds like shite therapist. Or at least disorganized that she couldn't remember. Perhaps you've improved and she can't recognize you well enough to remember?
I've heard a lot from people about EMDR. It's probably worth looking into.
Horse stables can be a great place to recover from PTSD. Many are set up to work with trauma victims. And if money is an issue, they often need help in the mornings mucking out stalls, so you can get lots of time with the animals. The trainers are often calm and a great influence too
@Rumple Stillborn Report her to the relevant authorities, that's unacceptable
I can only tell you that it did work very well for my husband. His PTSD was severe. It took several years to fully be controlled but the EMDR sessions were a huge help to him.
A great analysis once again.
Would it be possible to cover the case of Sarah Stern? I found her murder by a childhood friend just for cash one of the most tragic and disturbing stories i've come across.
The minimum number of innocent people killed in Iraq was almost two thousand. Many estimates are for several thousand of "collateral damage".
For this, soldiers like McVeigh, do not go to prison. They are given medals. When you have a military culture that rewards the killing of innocent people you have to expect people like McVeigh to happen. It is not a selective choice by society. You cannot say "We want you to kill THEIR innocent people but not ours"
The war in Iraq was one hundred percent unfounded and immoral. Did anyone go to prison? Did anyone lose a pay check? Did anyone even lose their job?
Every single person in Iraq that was killed by US forces were innocent. The soldiers there were protecting their country. The civilians of course had no choice at all.
Lots of soldiers killed people in war, but came home and never killed a fly. McVeigh was radicalized by right wing books like the Turner Diaries, egged on by his buddies Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier, and taking crystal meth didn't help.
Neither did the civilians in Oklahoma City.
When you are in a war, like Afghanistan, you learn that no one is innocent. No one.
Methamphetamine abuse results in toxic paranoia.
Only if you let it also route of administration is also a factor I believe I've used it daily for 35 years I have all my teeth I eat every day I sleep every night. I use it to medicate my ADD then again I am taking it orally. Not very many people do that. I don't sniff it damn sure don't smoke or shoot it. But have been guilty in the past of sniffing it. I remember years ago I did stay up for days at a time and got paranoid, though not about the police or thinking people were after me. Just about stupid shit like what if my car broke down when I was driving what would I do I don't want to walk right now oh my God no, but never once did I ever entertain of killing anybody or bombing anyting. Also was diagnosed sociopath is younger but I think that was a misdiagnosis.
@@waltersobchak7275 sounds like you should stop doing meth. I bet you get explosive and violent when you are upset or angry. That is typically how people on meth are. Since you are under the influence and for such a long time I would not trust you to properly and objectively assess yourself.
@@waltersobchak7275 It is amount and frequency.
@@bitchface235 Absolutely agree.
@@jnagarya519 year later still fine. I don’t think you understand how much I use. I do 10mg every morning. That’s it. No more than that. I love to eat and sleep. I do not go ball to the walls. If you will google the name Desoxyn. Look at what the active ingredient is and what it is prescribed for. The give it to kids for ADD as well as for adult narcolepsy. Also prescribed for a host of other things. If this substance was truly that detrimental they would not be prescribing it.
"So in a way the rejections became channeled into conspiratorial thinking. The rage he experienced with the government in one sense was really directed at women."
When I look around the internet these days, I get the impression he may not be the only one with these kind of symptoms...
Great video!
Very good analysis as always Dr. Grande, I hope youbdont mind I added a few details
Thank you
He grew up at the end of the Cold War so his fear of nuclear bombs is sort of natural. This most likely stemmed from an emergency bomb drill he experienced in school or something similar.
Dr. Grande, I love these videos. Please keep them coming. I have a video request that I would like you to do if you haven’t done already. It’s about the astronaut Lisa Nowak who attempted to harm/kill Air Force Captain Colleen Shipman. I would love your analysis of this particular incident. Thanks. Have a nice day.
I remember her. She wore adult disposable underwear and drove across a couple of states? She was so strange 👀
@@h.borter5367 Mm-hm. What Lisa Nowak did ended up no doubt hurting the image of N.A.S.A; but it was no doubt an out of this world boom to the adult diaper business. I can't imagine how much Depend made in sales in 2007 (the year that this crime happened.)
Isn’t it interesting that those who are trying to be heroes, end up committing the most evil. Who is more evil, those who kill thinking they’re doing good or those who kill knowing they’re evil?
Keep up the work!
He was intelligent but not intelligent enough to know that the government doesn't consist of a crèche full of children working for it. Well atleast not in hindsight. He shouldn't have been allowed to be fast tracked to the chamber, as a person who suffered from depression & suicidal ideation, they actually did him a favour in doing this. He should have lost all rights as soon as he parked that truck & walked away.
The last time I was this early, we were allowed to go outside.
Really enjoying this analysis 👌🏾
Can I ask, what do you mean by "this early"? :)
Haha, it means I normally get here and watch the video when it's day old or even more. This was the first time I got the notification early and I actually watched it 45 minutes after it was uploaded 😁
"Your persistent belief in your own rationality is the primary illusion that controls your life. Once you learn to see past your illusion, the walls of your mental prison will start to melt away." From the book Loserthink by Scott Adams.
What does that mean?
@@joedent3323 As best I can tell, he's saying you're not as rational as you might think you are. Even the greatest skeptic can have emotions. Once you acknowledge that, you'll be less likely to fire off at the hip. Unfortunately, Scott Adam has never taken his own advice.
Clear, concise! Building the time line, building the (irrational) rational. Allowing us to almost understand the unfathomable!🤔😓💀
Dr. Grande: Thanks for the very insightful reviews of these deviant characters. Please do consider making a video about Brian Mark Blackwell. His case might be unique, in the sense that his criminal charge was REDUCED by the court due to his being assessed and diagnosed with NPD. There is a whole British documentary about him, with excerpts from his police interview. You do such thorough research on the subjects of your videos that I am sure you will find a lot of additional detail about that man. Cheers!
Another interesting analysis, Dr. G. One wonders if there has ever been research into the potential correlation and causation between one's likelihood to commit mass murder and factors like domestic/familial dysfunction, unsupervised access to firearms, exposure to real or simulated gun violence (video games), and consumption of racist and/or anti-government propaganda.
I grew up outside of Buffalo NY and am just a few years older than McVeigh. I also lived outside of Waco TX when the Mount Carmel tragedy took place. i didn’t know any of the people but it’s a strange feeling.
Resolving the Oklahoma City bombing is vitally important not only in order to obtain justice for the victims of that two plus decade-old terrorist attack, but to safeguard our national security in the war on terror. As we have noted in previous articles, the three major terrorist attacks on U.S. soil - the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1995 OKC bombing, and the 2001 9/11 attacks - are all directly connected, both in terms of the terrorist perpetrators involved and the government officials who have “fumbled” intelligence and informants alerting them to the attacks beforehand. And in each case they have allowed perpetrators to escape and have covered up evidence of government duplicity and/or complicity.
I’m not sure I agree that his distrust of the government was misplaced resentment of his mother and/or women who rejected him. It’s always the go to, blaming childhood trauma, and most times this holds weight. Personally, I think he was so much more intelligent than that. Although of course he was profoundly affected by abandonment and rejection, as anyone would be, I think it’s too easy to reason away his crimes on that aspect with any substantial percentage. I have always been fascinated by him. There is no excuse for the carnage he inflicted on so many people, but at the same time, I don’t think distrust of the government necessarily aligns with delusion. Look where we are today. There are an abundance of reasons to doubt the integrity of the government. Many more than he had. I also don’t fully agree that he had a lack of empathy. He absolutely compartmentalized his feelings in order to move ahead with a horrific plan that he otherwise would not have been capable of following through with. This is not the same as a lack of empathy. I think although he was deeply misguided and there were delusional aspects to his thought process, I often wonder why we are so quick to lump what we do not understand as pure evil. He truly believed that what he was doing was for a valid reason. Although I know this comment will incur quite a bit of animosity, let me make it clear that I am not in agreement with what happened here. It’s just way more complicated than blaming it on abandonment issues, delusions, psychopathy, or evil. And honestly, as someone who has always dealt with depression, tortured thinking and “mental illness”, so to speak, not every deviant thought process is insane. I take great pains and work very hard to remain aware of my behaviors, and more specifically of the underlying reasons for those behaviors. I would never hurt another human being intentionally, but I really think that he was aware of a grave danger that people today are only even starting to acknowledge. The tragedy of all of it is overwhelming.
The most horrific acts tend to be done by people who truly believe their reasons are valid: the inquisition, the holocaust, 9/11...
ANYONE ELSE FEEL SUPER COOL WHEN DR. GRANDE LIKES YOUR COMMENT?!??!
*Dr. Grande: hearts my comment
* Me: oooo MINES?!! .... lil ole me?? Is this what fame tastes like? THEN ITS DELICIOUS!!
Oh did glorious leader bless you? How enlightened. I bet you aren't socially awkward in the least (reports to FBI for onvious inceldom)
Dear doctor, could you please explore the topic of vulnerable narcissistic personality disorder in the next videos? I am particularly interested in the ways of treatment. The vulnerable NPD Wasn't discussed enough and I'm interested in the differences in therapy approach.
He already has multiple videos on Vulnerable Narcissism
Fantastic video as always Dr Grande. I think I will give the apocalypse edition of the dating game a miss.
David Hahn - the Nuclear boy scout - who tried to create a self sustaining nuclear reaction in his garden shed would be interesting to look at in terms of personality profile.
More great content - thank you Dr G! I now support you via Patreon and encourage everyone who isn't to do the same 😁
I live in Oklahobo and when the building got blown up, I was 17 miles south of Oklahobo City in a town called Norman, Ok. I felt the explosion so strongly it felt like we were having an earthquake. All those babies in the building next door and all the deaths, it was just horrible. IMwill say we have one of the most beautiful memorials I've ever seen. It's very tasteful and respectful.
Where is "Oklahobo"?
@@thomasorchard I think he was referring to OK's poverty climate.
Very interesting, thank you.
Very interesting analysis. I would like to know more about schizotypal personality. When the Oklahoma City bombing happened, I was heartbroken over all the innocent children who were murdered.
I think there are a lot of important things missing that lead to some of his behaviors and made him the person he eventually became. In my opinion he was a just a nice guy until he went to gulf war. After that he was completely broken and suffered from severe PTSD. Some said, that he didn't die on June 11,2001 - he had died at the gulf war already. I think, if he had psychological help when he came back home April 19,1995 would have never happened.
I've read McVeighs autobiographies with interviews from people who knew him all his life. He was not socially awkward in fact he was quite a popular kid, and most people who knew him were extremely shocked at what he did, as he seemed open, friendly, caring etc. Research more. This should be basic level stuff.
Easier to say bullied as a kid standard stuff
I agree - I don't believe, from what I've heard of Tim, that he had any harder time than the most popular kids at school.
It just "goes with the territory" and is a cliche in the world of murderers and nutters; perhaps, sometimes, people imagine these traits exist where they did not.
However: it is slightly worrying that a doctor-of-the-mind is making-up & fully believing his own made-up stories.
Perhaps he wasn't bullied, but clearly not so popular that he couldn't even get himself a girlfriend.
He got scrubbed from special forces by trying too hard. He wore brand new stiff combat boots for "Hell Week" which gave him crippling blisters in 2 days. rookie mistake...took a broken hearted discharge and when he got home, couldn't get a decent job. Went out on the road with limited funds. completely left out his bank robbing and living mostly around militia groups, cheap motels, mostly out of his car like Bonnie and Clyde, his hostility and obsession over Ruby Ridge and Waco, he was at full on war with the F.B.I. He got caught quick because he was one of those "Free Man" and refused to use license plates. He adopted a sort of warriors code and accepted his execution.
I think there was more than one civilian killed at Ruby Ridge, will look it up. Another great episdode, Dr. Grande.
He renounced his citizenship, he should’ve just left the country.
I wonder if he just made up his mind and called it done or do the paperwork. It costs $2,3××.00 to renounce usa citizenship as of mid 2020. Was looking out of pandemic boredom.
Nobody wants them.
I'd never give up my citizenship to anyone
I met McVeigh right before the incident. Eerily, afterward, a co-worker mentioned the connection. McVeigh only said hi to me at work (he was a security guard).
You met that sicko?
How was his behavior?
He was a gulf war veteran. He suffered from moral injuries and experienced cognitive dissonance. He said in an interview just before the execution, "I killed men, women, and children (in Irak) and reworded. Then I killed men, women, and children (hire) then I got a death sentence.
Dr. Todd Grande,
Would you ever do a video analysis on Randy Stair, the Weis Market Shooter?