Modernizing a Classic: the Brownells BRN-180 Project
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
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Today I am chatting with Paul Levy of Brownells about their BRN-180 upper; a modernization of the original Armalite AR-180. This particular project is an interesting combination of recreating an older design but simultaneously modernizing it - so let's pick Paul's brain about some of the unexpected hurdles that came up! Thanks to RIA for hosting us.
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On the note of the relative simplicity of the AR-180, an interesting little movie fact:
In the original Terminator film, when the T-800 steals an AR-180 it was semi-automatic. In a deleted scene, the T-800 analyzes the gun, robs a specific hardware store, and then uses the tools it acquires to convert the gun to full auto. Some of those tools are also used in the self-healing scenes. This is also where the T-800 got its leather jacket, before the scene was cut from the film.
Now, that would be a cool sequence to put back into the movie.
Nifty
I cant find it.
Show us.
It would be been cooler if he tapped his 2nd battery and rigged up a limited use underbarrel phased plasma cannon.
So, they cut it because it showed how to convert the AR-180 to full auto?
That is one impressive background.
You guys should model your warehouse after this.
I hope my sarcasm is obvious
marvelous background!
And one seriously photobombing employee! He's even looking right at the camera as he's walking up!
@@jamestarbet9608 lol,,, n it’s not the first time 😁
Disneyland for Men...lol
Currently the AR180b platform is one of the few "modern rifles" we can own in Canada, So they are hugely popular here.
@@joshuagraham1265 I am still hopeful of the court challenges, to reverse all this. But am definitely not holding my breath
They can’t take your guns if you and twenty mates shoot back. :P
I was actually thinking of selling my pretty much new Gen 2 T97 to buy a wk180.
@@joshuagraham1265 Can you please cite a source
the fact that the AR180b isn't banned but the Mini-14 is just goes to prove how much of a shitshow the ban was, how did they think that a law making firearms (the vast majority of which aren't tracked) illegal to own, would somehow LOWER gun crime? it'll just make these guns flood the black market
Like the guy who walked in behind them before realizing whats going on lol
Time stamps with statements such as this
@@bigquaalude.9057 1:50
@@j.v.7451 Haha yeah he was seemingly hungry. I liked how he reacted when he realised, like "Oh shit, my bad!".
Captain Clueless
@@glennllewellyn7369 he’s old, there’s a pandemic. He’s being safe. Don’t be that guy
I'm the guy in the back, "Oh shit, I'm in frame!"
haha, at what time exactly? 1:58?
lunch time is important and dont let anyone tell you otherwise :-)
You're cool. Could happen to anyone. But now you're famous so whatcha gonna do? Capitalize!!
Poor guy in the background asking about lunch xD
I'd like to see a Stoner 63 carbine upper made for an AR-15 lower. THAT would be cool.
AR-16 makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. I would like a 300 pistol upper with longer hand guard and thin enough suppressor to fit under it.
I think that marketing that rifle as an ar18 homage is a good marketing idea on the large market of piston uppers, appealing even the more Classic oriented public.
@@Veritas419 that Is why Is a good marketing strategy, putting a recognizable name on a kind of product the market already have developed in other well popular ways (piston uppers)
Finally we can all have our little Armalite.
Just in time when tension is rising in northern Ireland again.
I built one on a spikes lower and had to make it Ca compliant. The fact that there is no buffer tube makes making it a fixed mag that seperates upper from lower to drop the mag a breeze. Love it
The AR180 upper with the Flightlight SCR lower seems perfect for NY and CA. I just wish barrel length and caliber option were more prevalent. I prefer 6.5 Grendel.
I'm so glad Brownells did these, and I really would like to be able to get one of the short barrel versions. The AR15 market is Schrodinger's rifle: Both possessed of nearly infinite variability, and simultaneously the most boring thing in the world.
As an aside, that AR16 in 6.5 Creedmoor would be amazing.
So glad I kept an original front sight/gas block for the AR180 in my parts box! I prefer one that looks closer to the original rifle and without a rail system.
I’d be really excited for the AR16 in .308 with wood furniture, or at least a DPMS pattern upper....
"I'm here to day at Rock Island Auctions to talk about a brand-new gun that isn't up for auction."
New series or web site "Why didn't we"? Could be a side bar on FW web site. Lots of opportunity for people to learn.
Omg Forgotten Weapons and Hot Ones did a combo video together!!!!
I recently obtained a BRN-180 upper and I _adore_ it.
Brownells really did a great job on this. I have been wanting one since they introduced the idea.
If a 7.62 were to come out AND someone decided to export it I'll totally dig it
Its awesome he doesn't want to over do the gun with factory add ons. Keep the price the right, keep refining the bones and have an awesome platform to build on. Awesome talk yall!
I love mine. a great NY compliance solution with minimal changes
I'd want the original style handgard.
I'm shocked there isn't a bigger push to modify the BRN-180 and Galil Ace into clones of their original counterparts. SIG 556 owners have been doing it for years.
@@vladpiranha Someone could make a kit for an SA80 clone 😂
@@Matt_The_Hugenot jokes on you, I bet it would sell a lot in the States
@@bluecaptainIT I'm in danger of being a fudd.
Been a huge AR18/180 fan since I was a kid. Plan on doing a BRN180 build in .223 soon. That said, I would absolutely love an AR16!
Does anyone like the scope mount on the original AR-180? At first glance it seems like a good idea, but that spring-loaded pin used to hold a scope in place comes loose anytime I try to use it. I finally gave up and just stick with the iron sights.
I have the 180s as an sbr and let’s just say, I love it!
Now, if only Brownells had the lowers in stock, back ordered for months...
I ordered my 18" upper in AUGUST. Brownells has kind of dropped.the ball on everything about the 180 except the shorty in blackout.
@@LAHFaust They brought an already obsolete upper to market for the price of an entire rifle at literally the worst possible time in the last half-century. Not only did they drop the ball, they’re having trouble finding it with both hands in an empty room.
@@sithticklefingers7255 obsolete? In what way? Surely you don't mean that the AR-18 action is obsolete, considering it's rapidly replacing the AR-15 or has been the standard action for the majority of NATO countries for decades.
Order them directly from nodak spud which is the company that supplies the lowers for brownells
I have my BRN-180 upper on an WWSD KP15 lower. handy little gun.
As cool as this is, I’ve always loved the AR-18(0) system as well as the aesthetic so I’d honestly prefer a repro to the tacticool, cookie cutter AR-15 looking one here
.308. Wood.
I WANT.
I'm the guy this rifle was made for lol
The picatinny rail along the entire rifle is always ugly to me, even if it's convenient.
Yeah,it looks like something is missing(because it is)
The new stuff is cool, but damn I think the retros are really beautiful.
Well, you gotta have room for the coffee pot and the toaster oven... ;)
@@KSFWG don't forget the microwave and UHD flatscreen
@@ewhartiii I thought they were standard issue, but I may be mistaken... :)
Super super cool idea. If i could get any of the parts, id build one.
I was just looking at the AR180 uppers on Brownell's........ alas I'm married with children. Oh well.
Oh man I thought Sean Evans from Hot Ones was doing a feature 😂
Either I've got deja vu or this was up a few months ago?
i think that was the video on the brownells polymer lower ?
I thought the same thing. Very similar to the previous video.
That was the BRN 10 video
Ian, would you be able to do a video on the AR-16?
Just got mine. Lower is being picked up tomorrow. Waiting for the optic to be shipped😁
I did not expect a mini-dissertation on market economics, but I’m not displeased!
I was just about to buy one of these, but alas, the fucking plague cost me my job, and I've had to tighten the belt.
@Matthew Maccashland There is that, but I have some 80% lowers that I want to build out, and ammo will eventually be available again.
Thank you , Ian .
Thank you , Paul .
A 7.62x39 option would be awesome.
I have the BRN-180 in 10.5 inch, on a Seekins lower and it is AWESOME! It runs many different rounds and flawless.
Our Brn 180 upper has been having light primer strikes here and there. This is with steel case ammo , it's been getting better overtime but it does struggle
Throw in a stronger hammer spring
I love the brn 180 it's a beautiful platform! And that dude that walked in behind lmao😂😂
What they should do is make a retro styled brn180 upper.
I think the original AR-18/AR-180 just has that cool "Retro" look. Too bad it's impractical to duplicate it.
I belive they are in the gunsmith shack in the middle of the store that also is a display with products on the outside of it
I have wanted to brn-180 so bad. Each time I go to brownells I go to them first. Always boxed up front
Id like to see it with an L85a2/3 charging handle rather than that dogleg
Somebody does make those for it. I forget the guys name tho. Saw his work on Instagram.
Lookup brn180 charging handle. The first link should be to a guy that makes parts and one is a FAL style charging handle for $40
Why? It’s specifically designed for a bullpup and not “standard” configuration of rifle. I’d rather see a ak or old galil style charging handle.
Why would you want a L85 anything?
@@linditpapaj1345 because it doubles as a brass deflector
My only thing is I want a complete rifle...
Also to all the guys calling for a straight up replica, u really don’t get things. Brownells is a business. Businesses need to make profits to stay afloat. Yes a replica would be cool, however, the market would be limited to only people who want replicas, and there’s not that many of y’all in the grand scheme of things. They did that with the BRN-10 and look what happened to it. It was limited in who it appealed to so it wasn’t worth continuing production on. Meaning it was a waste to them. Replicas are usually not very profitable because they only appeal to the people who like the original look. It’s why the few guns that there are replicas of are very iconic guns, like the tommy gun, of the colt single action army, and the original M16. Those guns are iconic and therefore the market is big enough to warrant making them. But the AR-180 is not an iconic gun. Is it a nice gun and good design? Yes. But it’s not a widely renowned and well known rifle.
How was the BRN-10 a waste? They appear to have judged market demand very well and sold every single one they produced. The market for half-replica/half-modern seems way more dicey (collectors don't want half-hearted replicas, modern shooters don't want handicapped/obsolete features)
@@curious-relics for one the brn-180 isn’t a half anything. It’s a modern piece with homage to an old school gun, I’d seriously like to here what the outdated features u speak of are. Secondly, they did an interview where brownells staff flat out said that yes they sold what they had, but the time it took to sell what they had means the rifle did not sell as well as they had hoped, and if they could do it again they would’ve made changes to try and help it sell better.
I thought you did a collab with Sean Evans from Hot Ones haha
Really enjoy my brn180s
Hey Ian i don’t know if you read these but I’d be really interested in a video or series covering the history of Armalite and what all the AR models there are. AR-1, AR-2, etc. Certainly most of those are forgotten weapons besides the AR-15, 10, 7, and 18/180.
Will it work with full auto lowers tho?
Nothing to trip the secondary sear.
I would like to see a proper AR-180 but with the annoyances like magazine and trigger compatibility fixed, and a railed top cover. I wonder how Brownells' BRN-180 would work on a Polymer80 lower, though.
If that only had a BAR/FAL style charging handle and the ambi bolt release as the WWSD lower we would have a golden 2/3 gun rifle.
Good conversation; i like quite a lot the lines of the AR-18 over the BRN-180 lines, but yeah, i see several improvements on the platfaform and... it's have the Karl's and Russell Phagan's approval so... it must be good.
6:57 AR16 video tease.
where can i find videos on the AR16?
Wait... When did you film that AR-16? I can't find it on forgottenweapons.com
(01:49)
Giant looms into view.
Hi new subscriber and Im really enjoying your channel. I may have missed it but did you sort out the issue with the Calico?
What is the point of the picatinny rail running down the top of the hand guard?
For Adjustable iron sights from different types of companies to optics. Its up to you how you place it. I saw one pic of HK416 using a EOTech XPS2 as front sight
Because it give an end user the option to use the available real estate to suit their sighting needs.
Lights and lasers
The same things that normal AR-15s put lights n shit on that part of the rifle for. As they say in the video, original look is cool, but its not as useful when configuring the rifle in a modern setup. And as such would limit the market for whoever wants the gun.
Turning the weapon into a Christmas Tree.
So if they brought it out in 7.62 x 39, could they call it a AK-180 ?
Could you modify the Brownells 180 upper charging handle into a straight left handed changing handle?
you can fit 5 scopes on that rifle. i wonder if that will give you more zoom...
Unless i'm mistaken that'd be exponential zoom. so if you have a scope capable of 4x and you get 5 that's 4^5=1024x zoom. You'd probably run into the horizon before that becomes useful though
Makes me wonder: with some adjustments, could this weapon potentially hold up as a military rifle? I heard it shoots better compared to similar system rifles like the HK416.
Probably. It’s a system that a lot of current military rifles copied, so to make one to modern AR/M4 standards would probably work nicely.
I mean there's a good amount of NATO law enforcement and military who've adopted the Sig MCX, which has a VERY similar operating system to the BRN180. So I could see this rifle making it's way into some sort of LE or Military role.
I take it we'll get a peak at that ar16?
A 7.62 NATO version would be awesome!
For a 900 upper, I hope it comes with iron sights (it didn't look like it online)
And the lowers are still on backorder...
How would you compare it with the sig mcx...
One in .308 would be very interesting..
Is there ar-16 forgotten weapons video or was that teaser clip?
I'm sitting here wonder where that video for the AR-16 is at LOL I found that rifle online early last year by accident when I was looking for pics of the rare versions of the ar 10
Ar16 is that what he said??? 308 ar180??? Did i miss this video???
I'd love to buy stuff from Brownells, whenever they start coming out with realistic prices...........
speaking about modernised guns, can you guys do the HCAR?
Friend had an AR-1180 back around 1987 or 88. Only had iron sights, but, raved about it. Yo! Lucky, you still have that piece?
I'd love to buy one in 300 blackout, but I'm waiting on Brownells to offer a tighter twist rate (1:5, or 1:6).
This in .308 and 6.5 Grendel would make me feel tingly all over. I'm definitely keeping an eye on this.
I would've been happy to pay for a ar180 repro not so much on a different style ar15 with a charging handle
My thoughts exactly
Unique Gun
The BRN180 for when you want an SA80 without the bullpup
Or AUG and I think the Korean, Japanese and Singaporean army rifles too
Hey Ian... Matt at Demo Ranch is playing with your Calico. Please teach him how to use it and get him a scope mount.
I wouldn't mind one of these uppers. Can't afford it at the moment.
Please restock the BRN180 forged lower Brownells! I want one so bad!
"Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave". Andrew Fletcher
Mr. Fletcher has clearly no clue what freedom is.
@@GameplayBitFlipper I don't know you could be right, But if a person has taken steps to find some sort of arms. Whether a rock, stick, knife, sword, bow & arrow, or Firearm, etc etc. Could it be one of the top "Badge's" liberty? Showing that if anyone were trying to enslave this person, He or she might not just automatedly kneel or bend over? Might have the fortitude to fight if aggressed upon? I don't know but if someone understands self defence, it seems like a good start from someone who doesn't?
But yeah your probably right brother I'll toss this quote away.
@@albertaanarchy4132 i do see your point here. i have to say that owning a gun is (in your country) not the only point for 'self defending'. i live in a country with very strict gun laws (still possible to own/collect guns) and there is no need for 'firearm self defense' bc it is safe here.
Enslave someone? we are not in the 17th century anymore. back then it made sense to have guns. self defense with firearms is a bad idea today anyway, you have constantly a hot gun around and that is nowhere near responsible gun handling.
but i see that americans and most of the rest of the world have different views on freedom. but the loose gun laws and crime rate is the reason i dont want to visit the states (that actually have great landscapes) anymore. one wrong word to the wrong person and you get shot, is that the freedom you want?
@@GameplayBitFlipper Lately I have been living on the border of Mexico on the Mexican side it is somewhat rough here. Firearms are very restrictive by the government of Mexico and punished severely. But without some sort of defence, preferably a few firearms "Ball & Chain" Slavery is not out of the realm of possibly either from local gangs or the big gang Mexican government.
But what is Law here in Mexico, is not the same as, what I see is practice by the civilian population.
And in the near future I feel government's may possible be far more dangerous, than any common street criminals. But maybe we live in different reality's and that's okay.
@@albertaanarchy4132 or we just have very different govs.
correct me if im wrong but as far as i know corruption is a big issue in mexico. with corruption the most restrictive laws have zero power.
i would rather move to a save country than somewhere you need firearms for self defense.
imho certain govs are already today more dangerous than armed street criminals or even cartels. and im not talking about 3rd world countries only here, 1st as well (another reason why i dont want to go to the states anymore).
but yeah, at the end of the day, if you're happy living there go for it. i will stay where i am, its nice here (switzerland)
thought that was Steven Anderson at first
I may have missed it but any idea what the lead times will be on the BRN-180 Forged Lowers? I ordered one back in August and it’s still on backorder. I’m guessing with the increase in demand for all guns but especially AR15s the queue for batches at the forge are probably pretty long so I didn’t know if that’s where the hold up was. I’m just nervous that it will get banned before I can fill out a 4473 on it, because times are crazy.
Maybe somebody can help me, i am searching a gun from which i only remember the rear sight it had two windows in it (each one with a smoll notch at the bottom) and a third notch on top (for different ranges).
I am pretty sure i saw it on this channel but i cant find it anymore. I also think its probably 40 years or older. If you have an Idea please let me know. I would be really happy
I’m just waiting on them to start selling the whole gun
Any news on the folding stock for the Brn180?
I wish the audio could be better
Judy at Brownells just told me that they are discontinued ... wtf?
Shows as "Discontinued" on the website too. Very disappointing. Hoping this is some sort of inventory churn and not actual discontinuation.
They're on Black Gen 2 and they're in stock now. FDE Gen 2 and Gen 1 are discontinued.
@@buffaloSoldier519 Thanks for info!
@@buffaloSoldier519 Thanks. Found the gen2 page. Looks like it is just a discontinued gen1 part number and Judy may have been truthful to @geoffreyjones2000 but not factual.
the link for others: www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/brn-180-gen-2-16-223-wylde-upper-receiver-assembly-sku078000600-137282-246490.aspx
Ok I haven't used AR 180 charging handle but by the look of it I'd say forward folding charging handle would be so much nicer.
If you have ever used an AK bolt handle, it's honestly not very different from that. It's almost halfway between a standard AK and Gail.
@@USSEnterpriseA1701 fyi: my service rifle was RK62 (with tube stock, cheese grater front and bicycle pistolgrip). AK bolt handle would be ok... among things I dislike are those you need to run close to things like top rail 'cause I happen to sorta kinda like my fingers and gloves.
Forward folding would fold out of the way and thus could be little longer to grip than AK type and be operated less carefully if you happen to like have optics on top.
@@Korppis Fair enough. That said, the 'crank' handle is also there in part to be a brass deflector, I believe there were occasional issues with brass bouncing off of the original straight handle on the early AR-18s and flying back into the ejection port, if I am remembering correctly.
@@USSEnterpriseA1701 well damn....so it's not a straight forward alternative solution kinda feature but that's even more interesting to me. :-D
@@Korppis I guess I should point out that the Eagle Arms/'Armalite' AR-180B did actually revert to the straight bolt handle, so it probably isn't a massively common problem. I do know that both my BRN-180 and the one InRange tested tend to show brass scrape marks on bolt handle, so casings are definitely being deflected by it on at least two examples of the rifle, both of them being fairly early 1st generation models. I can't really comment on how it clears large magnified optics, but reaching around the Holosun HS510C that it mounted on my example isn't too much more trouble than a standard AK roll style of operating the bolt handle, and I have the sight mounted about an inch/2.54 cm back from the front edge of the ejection port, so right over top of the majority of the travel area of the bolt handle. Hopefully that gives you something to work with from a user's pov.
Would it be possible to replace the piston system with a gas system and keep the recoil setup? I imagine changes would have to be made to the bolt too.
You'd end up with something similar to the korean K1A1
Modernization. Add polymer, slap on some plastic, paint it black, and add Picatinny rails.