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@@A.R.77 That was the exact comment I was going to make. I preferred the 90 degree grill. The horizontally banded tail lights. And I still dig those 3-spoke alloy wheels.
I had a turbocharger four in mine . Wasn't bad for power and if you kept the green light off you could get some gas mileage. But at 50,000 miles the motor started smoking . It had those nice wide TR tires and rims, but was useless in the snow
@@grazynazambeanie5963 The standard Turbo had some serious turbo lag, but wasn't bad once it spooled up. The later intercooled version got on it in a hurry and could give the 5.0 l HO a run for the money. I'm showing my age having driven all three of these engines .
Nice video, sure brings back memories. I've got four 2nd generation (1988-1994) Cavaliers; 88 Z24 coupe 5spd (registered), 92 Z24 convertible automatic (registered), 88 Wagon with dash, wiring, 3.1 automatic from a 94 RS also installed FE3 suspension on it (registered), and a 94 Z24 5spd that will have a 3400 engine before long (project car). All 4 are rust free southern cars. I've got six 5speed transaxles, with all related parts. I'll be swapping the autos over to manuals when the two automatics eventually fail. And I'll still have 2 spare 5 speeds leftover. Yeah, I really like these cars.
I bought an '88 Z24 new. I had drooled over the '87 for a year but by the time I had some money the '88's were out. It's neat to see that car here, it gets kind of forgotten. I still remember that commercial (and magazine ad) partly showed in the video - "A fox raised by wolves" with the Z28 and Corvette in the background. Neat "forgotten" car. BTW, I kept it a few years then traded it in for a used Corvette, another car I miss. 🙁
My granddaughter just picked up an amazingly solid 91 base Capri. We’ve been going through the mechanicals and it is a little tricky to find some bits. It still starts, stops, and handles like the little roadster that it was designed to emulate. She loves it. Enough said.
I really loved the Z24 and owned several, they were pretty cool they offered a hatchback version for a few years that was at its best in 1987 with a functional cowl induction hood.Also the X11 was really cool looking and in my personal opinion very collectable.
I owned 2 z24's. 1994 3.1 5-speed. Pretty fast car, especially when air is cool and dense outside. I cold roast the tires in 1st until I shift up. That electronic governor was very stupid but probably saved my life! Few years later I picked up a used 88z24 2.8 auto with digital dash. It was surprisingly punchy down low too, just not as much top end steam.
Great video! The Fiero GT with the upgraded body, and the 2.8 V6, was one of these. The Cavalier Z24/Sunbird GT were referred to as "Baby-Muscle" and driving one back to back with a 4-cylinder one made you think you WERE driving a Muscle Car!
One thing I must add is, back then GM cared about what it's cars sounded like. The V6 Fiero, Cavy Z24, Grand Am V6, Pontiac 6000 STE had a very raspy, sport tuned exhaust system. Their bread 🍞 & butter counterparts had quiet exhausts compared. At least they sounded awesome. My dad bought the new Grand Am SE V6 & loved it, but their new Euro "Sports Coupe" was lacking a tachometer; not available.
When I turned 16 years old, I had a 82 Capri RS with T tops V-8 4 speed manual. It sounded like a beast with the air breather flipped and the round traction bars looked cool. I lost my drivers license for 6 months for numerous speeding and laying drag tickets. That's when my parents realized I had tricked them with what is basically a Mustang with Mercury badges. I loved this car, they quickly sold it. Probably a good thing LOL.
I still have a 1980 Capri, with a '70 302 with TFS heads, T5 trans, and an 8.8 rear. With almost 400 hp, and weighing 2400 Lbs, it's still damn fast, and has run an 11.50, with southside lift bars, and drag radials.
Many of the rear-wheel-drives on the list might be debatable as muscle cars, but they are excellent (and cheap) bases for hot rodding, since most of them had factory V8 options. Fox body parts are still widely available, and dropping V8's into the Maverick/Comet, Monza/Sunbird/Starfire, or 442 is relatively easy with factory motor mounts. I have a soft spot for the Sunbird and Maverick, as they were my second and fourth cars I ever owned.
The Chevy X-11 actually did incredibly well in its SCCA racing division. Much of the credit for the development of this “hot rod” can go to chief project engineer and SCCA championship racer John Heinricy. So it deserves its place.
True. X-11 was an awesome little car. The 80 model was only stripes & badges. All the performance stuff came in 81. There were around 10,000 made in 81. I had an 81, with progressive 2 barrel carburetor. Those carburetor cars were the only years that the hood was a functional cowl induction. By 83 they were FI with CAI. HP was actually 145, NA. At 2800 lbs it kept right up with pre-SPG SAAB turbos. In SCCA Solo II autocross, I regularly bested the Z28s & Mustang GTs of the time. It was not built to be like a muscle car, more like a road race car. Straight rear axle was its only real shortcoming. It was a good one. Coming afterward were other performance FWD Chevys. Cavalier Z24, Lumina Z34. Goodyear Eagle GT radials were developed using the X-11 as the platform. I had it 16 years, it was very dependable. It did lose a 2nd gear synchro at 2500 miles (which Chevy replaced out of warranty), at 60K and 110k Clutch due to broken throwout bearing forks, alternator once and brake pads, and rear shocks at about 80K miles but it really didn't need them. I drove it very hard, too.
Absolutely. Mr Heinricy and an associate came out from GM's Mesa Proving Grounds to an SCCA Solo II event I participated in at PIR, and brought with them a still-carbureted 82 notchback X-11 (which I don't believe ever saw production) and a yet-to-be-released 82 Trans AM. The autocross course was laid out through the infield road course, came up onto the tri-oval with a stop box at the dogleg and ran through the banking with the finish lights at bthe beginning of the main straight. The notchback, with John at the wheel - cleaned my clock by 10 seconds. He said it was stock (yea, right) but really I had to attribute the huge difference from my time to his driving. The guy knew what he was doing. Man, I had SUCH a good time with that car! Debatable muscle car, my ass. The only reason there's any debate is that hardly anyone knows they existed and how they were equipped. X-11 was the evolution of muscle into modern times, prior to computerised fuel injection, which reset everything (OH! We can make clean, economical power!!). It came in four colors, all lacquer. Had a fiberglass hood. Don't forget, the Buick turbo six was a thing then too. Times were changing & car companies were changing to serve the performance market. The 2.8 60 degree V6 ended up with overhead cams in the Lumina Z-34, years later.
I had a brand new Shelby Charger in the 80s that got totalled. Great car could beat Camaro and Mustangs. I now have a 1987 Shelby Charger GLHS intercooled Turbo with 56K on it. Very fun car to drive handles like a go-cart. Fast in its day!
I love the GLHS! Small cars that handle fairly well and have a little power are fun. Just enough to be fun without having way too much power so that your right foot doesn't tend to out drive one's driving skill.
Hold onto your Shelby charger, the collector car market is starting to notice these cars and prices are going up. I bought a new ‘83 Plymouth Turismo, basically the same car as your charger, but with a 2.2 with a 5 spd, a turbo wasn’t available at the time. It was surprisingly quick, I did win some stoplight battles against cars with v8’s
This should be part 1, the 80’s. For the 90’s/00’s the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (also Buick Regal GS) was a spiritual successor to muscle cars. Sure it was FWD and automatic only, but the 240 HP/280 TQ was pretty spicy for the time. Transferring the supercharged 3800 into a Fiero makes for a wild ride.
Agreed, I had a ‘92 Grand Prix GTP 5 spd with the dual overhead cam 3.4, handling pkg with 12” wide eagle GT tires on it. It could handle the twisty roads like you wouldn’t believe. 7000 rpm redline you could really wind it up. I could run side by side with the best BMW and Mercedes’ v8 hp models
Not quite as wild as a 350ci SBC, but pretty close. If I was to ever do an engine swap on a Fiero, the 3800SC would be my first choice unless I could find a Super Duty 4cyl.
I remember having the rivalry with one of my best friends, his dad worked for Ford, mine GM, who had the best products, after moving away 40 miles, and once I got my license I went back for a visit to my friend, his brother was driving a new X-11 Citation and my buddy was driving a 1976 Corvette. Boy, did I have fun giving them the business.! Lol
Collectability in the future will not be define by horsepower, but rarity. These off the beaten path, rare code cars that hardly anyone ordered during this time period will become collector items for the simple fact that they're unusual.
@@paulhunter9613 The Pontiac GTP 3.8L V6 was a tight, but doable engine choice for the Fiero. The 1988 model is when Pontiac finally decided to give it a real performance suspension and address some of the other lack luster issues with the car. A shame they didn't keep it around a few more years.
at some point I've been told a "muscle car" has a power to weight ratio of 12:1 or better- meaning my 3k lb gremlin with a 200bhp gm 350 comes in at 15, NOT a muscle car. i really doubt any on this list could claim much better
I had a 1982 Citation X-11 HO. It could've been a truly great car for the time. Unfortunately, it was so riddled with cheap parts, total lack of quality control, by 60Kmiles, it was done. Everything sent bad from head gaskets to manifold gaskets (they were using just RTV then) to the transaxle needing a full rebuild to the rod AND main bearings going bad for the crank. I even had it modified by Bill Mitchel of Special Vehicle Developments here in CT. And it was a fantastic driving car for the time. Easily out handled a BMW 320i I drove. I also got away from a VW GTI. But, it was built with amazing indifference by a UAW and management who just didn't give a s**t. Except for all the problems, I really hated giving up that car!!
@@OldSchoolZ-wy2yx I have been keeping my eyes peeled in my area for a 88-90 coupe with a stick but no luck, nothing but convertibles w auto or coupes w auto trans. I did however see an 88’ convertible that was super clean with a stick at my local car show that was immaculate.
Yup. I looked up my 1994 vin for my old car and turned up empty. 3.1v6 with 5 speed and sunroof. I'm sure someone must have totalled it. My 88 had too many misc problems. I guarantee the electrical harness will have to be replaced. It's hard to find a good z24 5speed. All you see is those 4 cylinder crap boxes z24 impostors. 😂
The Fox body Capri was arguably more muscular and much better looking than the Mustang until about 1983 model year when the Mustang styling caught up. The upright horizontal slotted Capri grille outclassed the sloped back egg crate grille on the 1979-1982 Mustangs.
drove one of those silver X-11's back in the day, wasnt mine, enjoyed the car...was pretty peppy for what it was. hard to find one today in any type of restorable condition
I had a black 1991 cavalier z-24 like in the thumbnail pic of this video with the 3.1 V6 that made 140 hp and 185 lb ft of tq. Mine was a 5 speed manual.. It definitely was a training wheels for going up to a muscle car .. I wish I still had that 91 Z-24 that was probably one of my favorite cars I've ever owned
Yes sir. Mine was 1994 5 speed. How you like that short 1st gear?! I learned manual sticks on a 5 speed Toyota corolla. Took me by surprise that I didn't have to raise rpm's and clutch dump on the z. You would just spin tires and burn rubber for days. It had enough torque to just get it in stop light racing. 👍
@@tonecapone8840 look up spectator drag racing. I raced a 90s Camaro with my 93 Z24 auto with 30-day tags on it. They had a much better power to weight ratio and on the back stretch I pulled past them. It was almost nose to nose in the turn. I think I beat them.
"Based it on the Omni GHL" What is an Omni GHL? -There was ONE car from the '80's that no-holds barred was the KING of fun: The Dodge Omni GLH Turbo. This thing was nuts! You held onto the steering wheel with both hands at all times, because when the big turbo finally spooled up, the torque-steer was ridiculous! But that ridiculous behavior along with the way the car squirted ahead under full boost is what made it so damn fun!
Totally different part of history! There was no "real muscle cars" during the smog days of the late 70's, early 80's. Heck even the corvette was trash in those days!! Great content and love you all's work!!!
The Sunbird Formula was probably the closest thing to a "musclecar" on this list . You mention the available 305 , but didn't realize that California-only models would receive the 350 . Oddly , though , on these particular applications , the (very) de-tuned 350-2V was rated at only 125 hp (!) while the 305 was rated 140 hp. One of the techs that worked with my Dad at the dealership flew out to California to take delivery of a 350 Monza (Monza was the same car as the Sunbird) . The 3-link rear suspension was actually a great design for traction , (its the same rear suspension used on the 3rd gen F-body) but the factory B78-13 tires left it severely traction limited . BUT , from a 30 mph roll , it was quicker than the same year Z28 and Corvette , even though the Corvette's L82 350 was rated at 220 hp compared to the Monza (and Sunbird Formula's) 125 hp. The reason ? The Monza was a 2700 lb car , the Z28 was a 3400 lb car , and an optioned- out Corvette was a fat pig at 3800 lbs . My Dad was so impressed by that little Monza that he bought my older sister a 305 powered Monza Town Coupe . The Town Coupe looked innocent , nothing like a musclecar , light blue with a white top and interior . Surprised a LOT of people ! After about 30k miles , it got the "GM disease" , and the cam went flat . It was out of warranty , so Dad had the 305 yanked and replaced with a 300 hp 1965 327 . Little car was a MONSTER after that !
As far as these cars in the '80s I had an '82 Plymouth Horizon TC3, '88 Chevy Cavalier Z24, '88 Pontiac Fiero GT & my 2 younger brothers had the '76 Mercury Comet, '91 Mercury Capri & '84 Olds 442! My 2 best friends back then had the '76 Volare & '79 Sunbird! The only one I still wish I had was that Fiero GT, that thing was a blast to drive & a great little car, I just wished they had turbo or supercharged that V6 - PEACE LOVE n HIPPYNESS ✌❤☮
The Charger GLH and GLHS models (as well as the Omni GLH and GLHS the Charger was based on) were really ahead of their time. The time they came out, muscle had come back in vogue with the Mustang/Capri 5.0 (and even the Mustang SVO with the 2.3 turbo), the Z28/IROC Camaro, and the Formula and Trans Am Firebird. Yet, Chrysler stuck to sports compacts as their muscle cars, and that was not such a bad thing. Of course, later on, we saw them introduce muscle in the 2000s with the Magnum, 300, and Challenger/Charger, but the GLH and GLHS models were ahead of their time as evidenced by modern compact cars still front-wheel drive and still equipped with turbo 4 cylinder engines.
Gentlemen, only with your permission, here are my favorite four cars after watching your superbe vidéo. Fourth place: Mercury Comet. Third place: Oldsmobile 442. Second place: Pontiac Sunbird formula. And the Winner, Ladies and Gentlemen, is The Dodge Aspen!!! What an American Dream Car !!!!!!!!! Thanks for your superbe vidéo, those days where we were YOUNG and happy with our Muscle Cars! See you later alligator at the wild crocodile !!!!
I remember the Citation from when I was a kid and even new, the X-11 wasn't often seen. By the time I graduated high school, Citations had almost disappeared.
4:15 I believe you mean the Omni GLH (supposedly for "Goes Like Hell"). 6:10 No, the '78-'79 Cutlass models were not hatchbacks. They were slant-back sedans, but the rear windows did not lift with the rear deck. Also, no mention of the 260 V8 and manual 5-speed (dog-leg first gear position with 2-5 in the H-shift-pattern) option? That had been around since 1976. I remember actor Gary Frank (from the series 'Family') touting the 260 5-speed 442 in period commercials.
The fact that the Shelby Charger is on this list is debatable. It was a hauler. They rest really are debatable except I'm pretty sure Ford offered the 79 Cobra in a 5.0.
I would have to agree; Shelby Charger is a bit debatable. I had the Plymouth equivalent (Turismo 2.2) and it was one of the best performance cars I've ever owned.
I thought the Maverick/Comet was based on a slightly revised Falcoln chassis. The Pinto, I believe, was pulled from a model from Ford of Europe. I could be wrong.
The Maverick was derived from the Falcon chassis. The 'European' part of the Pinto that you had heard about was the engines. Those were from various Ford of Europe engine plants. The rest of the car was designed and built in the US.
Except they never made a Camaro with a 350 in 83....The capri was a little quicker than a base 83 305 camaro , but my L69 305 5 speed Camaro ran right next to my best friends 83 Mclaren RS he bought brand new off the showroom floor. And our friend Pats Shelby Charger blew both our doors off every time we raced him.
I loved my 80' Capri with the S6. Great A/C, full set of 6 gauges, center armrest with storage, huge available space with 3rd door, enough room in the engine bay to sit in while tuning around, massive fender flares for wide tires if desired, and overall good looks with 27mpg.
I've never seen a car change more than the Mercury Capri. It went from a compact Euro coupe to Mercury's version of the Fox body Mustang, to a tiny Australian-sourced convertible.
I suppose that's par for the course. I haven't been happy with FORD naming that new electric car, "Mustang Mach e". That car should've been called Falcon, Comet or Fairlane. Absolutely nothing links that car to the Mustang line-up. Seems it was done by popular Vote at the Focus Groups by mindless people.
I doubt if the announcer/presenter lived through the era. These cars were not bad for their time, a time of engineered oil/gas shortages. I'd still rather relive the late 1970's and early 1980's even with these cars. What good is a contemporary 5L Mustang if you cannot afford to drive it?
Dude. Listening comprehension is important. He said the quality sucked. And it did. Citation? Check. Fiero? Check. The Citation had many recalls and some Fieros would catch on fire.
@@ThisOldCarChannel I'm with Mary in betting you hadn't lived thru this era - if only cause you present these cars in such a positive light... When the reality is, most of them were complete crap! These were the years the big 3 were getting their collective asses kicked by the Japanese imports - and rightfully so!!! Not only was handling & performance abysmal - but engineering & overall build quality was atrocious!!! All they were doing was going to the parts bin and trying to cobble together something different... In fact, had it not been for the import tariffs imposed by uncle Sam, they may have ALL gone under by the end of the eighties! Truth is, you lost me awhile back - when you once referred to the Cadillac Cimarron as a good car!!! Dude - I had a nervous twitch for days after watching that video!😂 P.S. You forgot the Sunbird's sister - the Chevy Monza.
None of these cars were ever considered as "muscle cars". They were never marketed as or thought of as "muscle cars". They were considered "sporty" versions of thier cousins except for the Fiero. That was a stand alone car. But again, never considered a muscle car nor marketed as such.
I am familiar with every one of the cars on this list. I also drove most of them and owned 2 of them. Being debatable muscle cars they are not. No muscle anywhere in this pack. But most of them were a cut above their standard versions, and some, like the citation x-11, Shelby Charge and Capri RS were actually very fun and spirited performers. The Volare Road Runner and Aspen RT were available with 360 V-8s with a high performance head and four barrel carburetor along with upgraded brakes and suspensions. Those guys were actually pretty darn decent performers. While today they are dog slow and dead meat performance wise, most of these cars were actually fun to drive cars. The mustangs, fox body capris, Oldsmobile G body Cutlass hurst and 442 models are actively sought after cars today. They all are hot properties in the hot rod performance market for performance modifications. And the Shelby chargers were really hot little pocket rockets with just a little tweaking. This list is a good case of knowing what boxes to check on the order form to get a number of factory hot sporty cars in a period of very dim performance available from the showroom floor. If you find them, a number of these cars are available for very reasonable prices and can be very enjoyable drivers even today. Stuff a eco boost R cylinder with a manual transmission out of a salvage mustang, and both the fox body Capri and mustang become a totally wild and crazy animal. Every car on this list will become something totally awesome performance cars wise when stuffed with any modern takeout salvage motor and transmission readily available.
Almost all those cars are products of the "Malaise" Era, with de-tuned engines that lowered compression and performance, all in the name of emissions reductions...and FUN. There's only so much one can do with a 7:8:1 CR and the standard timing at 5 degrees AFTER TDC..."By Gawd and Sonny Jesus", I kid you not! Fortunately, in some places many of them being over thirty years old, you don't have to "smog" them anymore, so more or less you can do the performance modifications on SOME of these vehicles. Granted, anything with that "Iron Duke", which was a "grocery-getter" engine, just isn't going to do much for it. For the Mopars with a 318 or 360, PLENTY of room to make that thing a "BEAST" if you're willing to spend some serious bucks on an engine rebuild that's oriented towards performance. That 360 mill, even with the iron crank, still makes a decent "street" engine, and with 10:1 compression, a "3/4" cam, a decent set of headers, and a tuned four-barrel carb (and don't toss that Thermoquad if it works, it's perfectly fine) you can get about 300 honest horses and still have something that's drive-able and wont' guzzle TOO much gas. Look up "Uncle Tony's Garage" for tips on Mopar performance.
@@selfdo I remember the “iron duke” engines very well. I disliked them in almost every GM car that was equipped with them. More than anything else, it was the sound they made when you put the throttle down. In the light cars they put them in, they would move them ok for day to day driving, but the sound and feel was just horrible. Believe it or not, you could tune and modify then to deliver decent performance for their size. But why bother when in many of the vehicles they came in you could yank them and drop in a small block Chevy v8 for cheap and more than double your power. I remember a rental olds cutlass 2 door coupe we were given as a rental. The guy I shared it with hated it. But I saw some hidden charms in it. It was very light weight, it was a lower trim level model, but it had comfortable seats with the velour (corduroy) fabric covers so they were grippy and kind of held you in place. It had a center console with the shifter. It had those skinny 80 series radial all season tires tires on it. I spent an hour poking around the car, making sure all systems, fluids, latches lights and hinges were properly set up and working. (rentals in that little city we got were very neglected and always way out of adjustment with as little maintenance as possible.) the tires all were way low on tire pressure. Basically, almost flat. I then tuned the tires air pressure for the best road handling they could deliver. Then drove the car. It’s performance was transformed. It went from a sluggish slug to a light and nimble driving car. My buddy was shocked at how good the car suddenly became the next time he drove it. And he wanted to know how I made the car so much better. But no matter what I did, there was no getting around that gritty groaning iron duke sound And feel, even though the car ran and performed so much better.
It wasn't only the Capri's front end that was different. The taillights were also different than the Mustang. The '83-'86 Capri also added a "bubbleback" hatch unlike the Mustang & a unique rear bumper cover with smaller taillights. All '79-'86 Capris had wheel well "bulges" which also differentiated it from the Mustang. These were aesthetic changes, not "aesthetical" as you said. And yes, they most certainly are sought after by Ford/Mercury collectors.
I own a darn near MINT ‘77 Black and Gold Trans-Am,but I always liked the “Road Runner”. I never really cared about speed too much…I just thought they looked COOL! 🚗 👀
As a kid in my early 80’s, I actually thought the majority of the cars shown were pretty cool looking. I was never a FWD fan. So i have always ignored them. But the rear wheel drive models were fun for sure.
I had an X-11 back in the day. Other than the slight oil burn issue, it wasn't terrible. Plenty of interior space, decent pep, and the wheels (with white letter BFGs), hood bulge and graphics let people know it was a little different, but in a good way for the times.
Back in the 60s through the 90s most of my family was GM employed. My father (who passed away in 2019) used to work at and retired from the Cadillac plant in Lake Orion Michigan in 2001 but I remember most of his time was at Fisher Body back in the day.
I guess we could debate on what is considered a muscle car. None of these cars are it. I own 2 Fox body Mustangs and don’t even consider them muscle cars. I prefer the category of pony car or even sports car.
The Capri is a "Pony car" like the Mustang (which created the class), Camaro & Firebird. A muscle car is a smallish car with a large engine. For it's era it just as much of a "muscle car" as the Mustang with which it shared ALL it's drivetrain, suspension, braking components. Some years it (& Mustang) were the quickest cars in their class, some years they were the quickest American cars overall. You need to remember we were just coming out of the "smog era" & in '80-'81 the 5.0/302 was dropped from the Capri/Mustang due to 2nd fuel crisis. The ONLY V8 available in the '80-'81 Capri/Mustang was the 4.2/255 an "underbored" 302.
Well done. A wonderful trip down memory lane of American Automotive Mediocrity! You omitted the 1976 Oldsmobile Omega. Powered by the mythical 260 v8. Timeless in bunmblebee yellow/black, with the 14in. rally wheels. Smoke one wheel all day with that Oldsmobile torque!
ahaha, my dad back in that day had the bank he worked for (senior loan officer) to get him a Citation back in like 1986 or so since his LTD or whatever he was driving was a big cost for his commute. Eventually the car literally burned down.
I had a 1980 Citation. It wasn't an X-11, just a standard coupe, NOT a hatchback. Bright red, 3 speed manual, and plenty of room for a 6'2" guy. The transmission crapped out, it wasn't uncommon for them, I got it fixed. I loved that car! I would have had it for years if some 85 year old dude didn't hit me head on. Insurance company totaled it. I actually got more from them than I paid for it!
That was a very interesting video! Although I'd step back from calling any of these examples a muscle car in the traditional sense, they reflected the challenges of the time, with the technology that prevailed. Thank you for including the Oldsmobile Starfire. One of my cousins owned a striking yellow Starfire in the 1990's - it was certainly a unique model in New Zealand and especially in the tiny seaside village he lived in.
Capri was a Lincoln model in the early & mid '50s. The Comet was initially a Mercury Falcon, the oldest one I saw was a '63, in a neighborhood of retirees.
Who remembers the CHRYSLER COR-DOBA! with rich Corinthian leather seats! Tribute to Carlo Montiban! CORDOBA!!!! I guess they eradicated all the Corinthian cows cause you don't hear about them anymore. Were Corinthian cows softer than American cows? Anyway, loved the commercials 😂😂😂
oh wow !! great to see the '79 Pontiac Sunbird on here, i had one when i was stationed at Eglin AFB Florida, 3.8 4-speed, would have been better with a V8, but it was what it was ... fun car, mine was the fastback with black aluminum louvers , loved those snowflake wheels
7:00 Olds 442: Somebody please tell me, I missed seeing the factory tachometer that wasn't visible in the photo panning? 😕 If it outright didn't have one, I'm not surprised. This was how GM rolled in the 1980's
I grew up in the "malaise era." None of these cars had the power to keep up with their predecessors. However real gas guzzling muscle cars of the 60's and 70's were just used cars at this time which could be purchased at unimaginably cheap prices. High schoolers were driving around in GTOs and GTXs!
Not in my area. We did have 1 guy who drove a 67 camaro 396 and a guy with a 81 firebird. Everyone else drove those ugly imports or pocket rockets. Escort gt's, mustang gt's and z24s. An occasional omni or conquest.
Buffalo suburb dealer cereullo motors, Lincoln Mercury dealer was taking the 302 equipped comet, adding thrush side pipes, aluminum slot mags and marketed it as a budget supercar to combat the high price of insurance.
The term Muscle Car has been perverted to mean anything with a zippy engine. BAD. Does anybody remember the first true production muscle cars invented by MOPAR in '60 ??
My first car was an 89 Dodge Daytona and it couldnt have been more underpowered. It had no guts and was built to appear like it was supposed to be fast and absolutely wasnt. It didnt help that I got it in 96 and already it had transmission issues even though I was able to keep it going for about another 4 to 5 years. That car deserved to be in this list for sure.
The horsepower numbers alone for these vehicles from the late 70's to 80's don't fully explain things. Unlike modern vehicles with all the airbags, computers and safety features that weight a lot. The cars from this era didn't weight much, so it took less power to get moving
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I had a 74 merc comet gt 302 it was in rough shape and I was tired of fixing the lousy drum brakes sold it to a friend who needed a car WISH I HAD IT NOW never find another like it
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The 5.0 Capri was by far the best “Muscle Car” of the bunch!
Much agreed, loved the overall look of the Capri vs Mustang.
@@A.R.77 That was the exact comment I was going to make. I preferred the 90 degree grill. The horizontally banded tail lights. And I still dig those 3-spoke alloy wheels.
I had a turbocharger four in mine . Wasn't bad for power and if you kept the green light off you could get some gas mileage. But at 50,000 miles the motor started smoking . It had those nice wide TR tires and rims, but was useless in the snow
@@grazynazambeanie5963 The standard Turbo had some serious turbo lag, but wasn't bad once it spooled up. The later intercooled version got on it in a hurry and could give the 5.0 l HO a run for the money. I'm showing my age having driven all three of these engines
.
That was a Capri GS which is twin to Mustang GT!
Nice video, sure brings back memories.
I've got four 2nd generation (1988-1994) Cavaliers;
88 Z24 coupe 5spd (registered), 92 Z24 convertible automatic (registered), 88 Wagon with dash, wiring, 3.1 automatic from a 94 RS also installed FE3 suspension on it (registered), and a 94 Z24 5spd that will have a 3400 engine before long (project car). All 4 are rust free southern cars. I've got six 5speed transaxles, with all related parts. I'll be swapping the autos over to manuals when the two automatics eventually fail. And I'll still have 2 spare 5 speeds leftover. Yeah, I really like these cars.
I bought an '88 Z24 new. I had drooled over the '87 for a year but by the time I had some money the '88's were out. It's neat to see that car here, it gets kind of forgotten. I still remember that commercial (and magazine ad) partly showed in the video - "A fox raised by wolves" with the Z28 and Corvette in the background. Neat "forgotten" car.
BTW, I kept it a few years then traded it in for a used Corvette, another car I miss. 🙁
@rrobert7276 Cool! Have you had it since new, or recently got it?
@rrobert7276 Nice! Glad to hear you gave it new life! 🧡🚘
Had an 85 omni GLH . That was the most fun I had as a teenager.
My granddaughter just picked up an amazingly solid 91 base Capri. We’ve been going through the mechanicals and it is a little tricky to find some bits. It still starts, stops, and handles like the little roadster that it was designed to emulate. She loves it. Enough said.
Loved this video..."debatable muscle cars" could be a series all it's own...definitely needs a sequel
I really loved the Z24 and owned several, they were pretty cool they offered a hatchback version for a few years that was at its best in 1987 with a functional cowl induction hood.Also the X11 was really cool looking and in my personal opinion very collectable.
Loved the X-11 Donovan. Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
I owned 2 z24's. 1994 3.1 5-speed. Pretty fast car, especially when air is cool and dense outside. I cold roast the tires in 1st until I shift up. That electronic governor was very stupid but probably saved my life! Few years later I picked up a used 88z24 2.8 auto with digital dash. It was surprisingly punchy down low too, just not as much top end steam.
My cousin had a 1987 Z24 and a friend had a 1988 Z24 - these were some of the fastest little cars on the road back in the day !
Great video! The Fiero GT with the upgraded body, and the 2.8 V6, was one of these. The Cavalier Z24/Sunbird GT were referred to as "Baby-Muscle" and driving one back to back with a 4-cylinder one made you think you WERE driving a Muscle Car!
Thanks for the info!
One thing I must add is, back then GM cared about what it's cars sounded like. The V6 Fiero, Cavy Z24, Grand Am V6, Pontiac 6000 STE had a very raspy, sport tuned exhaust system. Their bread 🍞 & butter counterparts had quiet exhausts compared. At least they sounded awesome. My dad bought the new Grand Am SE V6 & loved it, but their new Euro "Sports Coupe" was lacking a tachometer; not available.
When I turned 16 years old, I had a 82 Capri RS with T tops V-8 4 speed manual. It sounded like a beast with the air breather flipped and the round traction bars looked cool. I lost my drivers license for 6 months for numerous speeding and laying drag tickets. That's when my parents realized I had tricked them with what is basically a Mustang with Mercury badges. I loved this car, they quickly sold it. Probably a good thing LOL.
I still have a 1980 Capri, with a '70 302 with TFS heads, T5 trans, and an 8.8 rear. With almost 400 hp, and weighing 2400 Lbs, it's still damn fast, and has run an 11.50, with southside lift bars, and drag radials.
@@jamesgeorge4874 That's awesome! I can't imagine 400 hp in a Capri RS I bet it's a wild ride.
@@derekwalston5340 No different than 400 horsepower in a Fox Mustang, it is the same car underneath.
My brother-in-law flipped one of those while speeding.
@@jamesgeorge4874 any pics of your 1980 capri ???
Many of the rear-wheel-drives on the list might be debatable as muscle cars, but they are excellent (and cheap) bases for hot rodding, since most of them had factory V8 options. Fox body parts are still widely available, and dropping V8's into the Maverick/Comet, Monza/Sunbird/Starfire, or 442 is relatively easy with factory motor mounts. I have a soft spot for the Sunbird and Maverick, as they were my second and fourth cars I ever owned.
I drove a 1980 4.8 Monza hatch that had the base trim level. It was a sleeper. But I wouldn't count 9.2 to 60 as being a muscle car time.
My first car in 2000 was a 1993 Z 24 Cavalier I really loved driving that thing
The Chevy X-11 actually did incredibly well in its SCCA racing division. Much of the credit for the development of this “hot rod” can go to chief project engineer and SCCA championship racer John Heinricy. So it deserves its place.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
True. X-11 was an awesome little car. The 80 model was only stripes & badges. All the performance stuff came in 81. There were around 10,000 made in 81. I had an 81, with progressive 2 barrel carburetor. Those carburetor cars were the only years that the hood was a functional cowl induction. By 83 they were FI with CAI. HP was actually 145, NA. At 2800 lbs it kept right up with pre-SPG SAAB turbos. In SCCA Solo II autocross, I regularly bested the Z28s & Mustang GTs of the time. It was not built to be like a muscle car, more like a road race car. Straight rear axle was its only real shortcoming. It was a good one. Coming afterward were other performance FWD Chevys. Cavalier Z24, Lumina Z34. Goodyear Eagle GT radials were developed using the X-11 as the platform. I had it 16 years, it was very dependable. It did lose a 2nd gear synchro at 2500 miles (which Chevy replaced out of warranty), at 60K and 110k Clutch due to broken throwout bearing forks, alternator once and brake pads, and rear shocks at about 80K miles but it really didn't need them. I drove it very hard, too.
Absolutely. Mr Heinricy and an associate came out from GM's Mesa Proving Grounds to an SCCA Solo II event I participated in at PIR, and brought with them a still-carbureted 82 notchback X-11 (which I don't believe ever saw production) and a yet-to-be-released 82 Trans AM. The autocross course was laid out through the infield road course, came up onto the tri-oval with a stop box at the dogleg and ran through the banking with the finish lights at bthe beginning of the main straight. The notchback, with John at the wheel - cleaned my clock by 10 seconds. He said it was stock (yea, right) but really I had to attribute the huge difference from my time to his driving. The guy knew what he was doing. Man, I had SUCH a good time with that car! Debatable muscle car, my ass. The only reason there's any debate is that hardly anyone knows they existed and how they were equipped. X-11 was the evolution of muscle into modern times, prior to computerised fuel injection, which reset everything (OH! We can make clean, economical power!!). It came in four colors, all lacquer. Had a fiberglass hood. Don't forget, the Buick turbo six was a thing then too. Times were changing & car companies were changing to serve the performance market. The 2.8 60 degree V6 ended up with overhead cams in the Lumina Z-34, years later.
I had a brand new Shelby Charger in the 80s that got totalled. Great car could beat Camaro and Mustangs. I now have a 1987 Shelby Charger GLHS intercooled Turbo with 56K on it. Very fun car to drive handles like a go-cart. Fast in its day!
I love the GLHS! Small cars that handle fairly well and have a little power are fun. Just enough to be fun without having way too much power so that your right foot doesn't tend to out drive one's driving skill.
Hold onto your Shelby charger, the collector car market is starting to notice these cars and prices are going up.
I bought a new ‘83 Plymouth Turismo, basically the same car as your charger, but with a 2.2 with a 5 spd, a turbo wasn’t available at the time. It was surprisingly quick, I did win some stoplight battles against cars with v8’s
This should be part 1, the 80’s. For the 90’s/00’s the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (also Buick Regal GS) was a spiritual successor to muscle cars. Sure it was FWD and automatic only, but the 240 HP/280 TQ was pretty spicy for the time. Transferring the supercharged 3800 into a Fiero makes for a wild ride.
Agreed, I had a ‘92 Grand Prix GTP 5 spd with the dual overhead cam 3.4, handling pkg with 12” wide eagle GT tires on it. It could handle the twisty roads like you wouldn’t believe. 7000 rpm redline you could really wind it up. I could run side by side with the best BMW and Mercedes’ v8 hp models
Not quite as wild as a 350ci SBC, but pretty close. If I was to ever do an engine swap on a Fiero, the 3800SC would be my first choice unless I could find a Super Duty 4cyl.
I remember having the rivalry with one of my best friends, his dad worked for Ford, mine GM, who had the best products, after moving away 40 miles, and once I got my license I went back for a visit to my friend, his brother was driving a new X-11 Citation and my buddy was driving a 1976 Corvette. Boy, did I have fun giving them the business.! Lol
Wow! You guys were way off the mark with the Fiero. Those cars were absolute beasts! At least the V6 5 Speeds were.
AS a 88 Fiero owner, It wasn't a muscle car but it had the base to be one with the right engine.
Yes siree. Got one. Original owner of '86SE. Currently undergoing a Buick 3.8L Supercharged V6 swap. Should be a blast when I get done.🤩
Collectability in the future will not be define by horsepower, but rarity. These off the beaten path, rare code cars that hardly anyone ordered during this time period will become collector items for the simple fact that they're unusual.
The 88 Fiero was the last and best year model for the lineup, especially the GT
It was a shame that it wasn’t allowed to stay around for a few more yrs, with the styling and more power improvements they had made
@@paulhunter9613 The Pontiac GTP 3.8L V6 was a tight, but doable engine choice for the Fiero. The 1988 model is when Pontiac finally decided to give it a real performance suspension and address some of the other lack luster issues with the car. A shame they didn't keep it around a few more years.
at some point I've been told a "muscle car" has a power to weight ratio of 12:1 or better- meaning my 3k lb gremlin with a 200bhp gm 350 comes in at 15, NOT a muscle car. i really doubt any on this list could claim much better
I test drove the Z24 at the dealership with the 5 speed manual and it was pretty quick it went from stoplight to 50 mph in no time at all
I used to have a maroon colored 1990 Chevy Cavalier Z-24, drove that car for almost ten years😊❤👍
Wow! Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
I had a 1982 Citation X-11 HO. It could've been a truly great car for the time. Unfortunately, it was so riddled with cheap parts, total lack of quality control, by 60Kmiles, it was done. Everything sent bad from head gaskets to manifold gaskets (they were using just RTV then) to the transaxle needing a full rebuild to the rod AND main bearings going bad for the crank. I even had it modified by Bill Mitchel of Special Vehicle Developments here in CT. And it was a fantastic driving car for the time. Easily out handled a BMW 320i I drove. I also got away from a VW GTI. But, it was built with amazing indifference by a UAW and management who just didn't give a s**t. Except for all the problems, I really hated giving up that car!!
Thanks for sharing and watching Sandy!
I had an 88' Z24 and I loved it, the styling was great and the car was quick.
Same here
@@OldSchoolZ-wy2yx I have been keeping my eyes peeled in my area for a 88-90 coupe with a stick but no luck, nothing but convertibles w auto or coupes w auto trans. I did however see an 88’ convertible that was super clean with a stick at my local car show that was immaculate.
Yup. I looked up my 1994 vin for my old car and turned up empty. 3.1v6 with 5 speed and sunroof. I'm sure someone must have totalled it. My 88 had too many misc problems. I guarantee the electrical harness will have to be replaced. It's hard to find a good z24 5speed. All you see is those 4 cylinder crap boxes z24 impostors. 😂
The Fox body Capri was arguably more muscular and much better looking than the Mustang until about 1983 model year when the Mustang styling caught up. The upright horizontal slotted Capri grille outclassed the sloped back egg crate grille on the 1979-1982 Mustangs.
drove one of those silver X-11's back in the day, wasnt mine, enjoyed the car...was pretty peppy for what it was. hard to find one today in any type of restorable condition
I had a black 1991 cavalier z-24 like in the thumbnail pic of this video with the 3.1 V6 that made 140 hp and 185 lb ft of tq. Mine was a 5 speed manual.. It definitely was a training wheels for going up to a muscle car .. I wish I still had that 91 Z-24 that was probably one of my favorite cars I've ever owned
Yes sir. Mine was 1994 5 speed. How you like that short 1st gear?! I learned manual sticks on a 5 speed Toyota corolla. Took me by surprise that I didn't have to raise rpm's and clutch dump on the z. You would just spin tires and burn rubber for days. It had enough torque to just get it in stop light racing. 👍
@@tonecapone8840 look up spectator drag racing. I raced a 90s Camaro with my 93 Z24 auto with 30-day tags on it. They had a much better power to weight ratio and on the back stretch I pulled past them. It was almost nose to nose in the turn. I think I beat them.
I owned a 91 sunbird LE 2-door 3.1v6 5 speed. Ran a hypertec chip and 180 degree thermostat. Was fun.
"Based it on the Omni GHL"
What is an Omni GHL?
-There was ONE car from the '80's that no-holds barred was the KING of fun: The Dodge Omni GLH Turbo. This thing was nuts! You held onto the steering wheel with both hands at all times, because when the big turbo finally spooled up, the torque-steer was ridiculous! But that ridiculous behavior along with the way the car squirted ahead under full boost is what made it so damn fun!
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
Totally different part of history! There was no "real muscle cars" during the smog days of the late 70's, early 80's. Heck even the corvette was trash in those days!! Great content and love you all's work!!!
The Sunbird Formula was probably the closest thing to a "musclecar" on this list .
You mention the available 305 , but didn't realize that California-only models would receive the 350 .
Oddly , though , on these particular applications , the (very) de-tuned 350-2V was rated at only 125 hp (!) while the 305 was rated 140 hp.
One of the techs that worked with my Dad at the dealership flew out to California to take delivery of a 350 Monza (Monza was the same car as the Sunbird) .
The 3-link rear suspension was actually a great design for traction , (its the same rear suspension used on the 3rd gen F-body) but the factory B78-13 tires left it severely traction limited .
BUT , from a 30 mph roll , it was quicker than the same year Z28 and Corvette , even though the Corvette's L82 350 was rated at 220 hp compared to the Monza (and Sunbird Formula's) 125 hp.
The reason ?
The Monza was a 2700 lb car , the Z28 was a 3400 lb car , and an optioned- out Corvette was a fat pig at 3800 lbs .
My Dad was so impressed by that little Monza that he bought my older sister a 305 powered Monza Town Coupe .
The Town Coupe looked innocent , nothing like a musclecar , light blue with a white top and interior .
Surprised a LOT of people !
After about 30k miles , it got the "GM disease" , and the cam went flat .
It was out of warranty , so Dad had the 305 yanked and replaced with a 300 hp 1965 327 .
Little car was a MONSTER after that !
You forgot one!!
The 90-91 4-4-2 Quad 4 that was a last gasp attempt by Oldsmobile to resurrect the 442.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
Agreed. The W-41 was a pretty quick car with the HO Quad4. I think it even hit high 14's in the quarter in one magazine?
As far as these cars in the '80s I had an '82 Plymouth Horizon TC3, '88 Chevy Cavalier Z24, '88 Pontiac Fiero GT & my 2 younger brothers had the '76 Mercury Comet, '91 Mercury Capri & '84 Olds 442! My 2 best friends back then had the '76 Volare & '79 Sunbird! The only one I still wish I had was that Fiero GT, that thing was a blast to drive & a great little car, I just wished they had turbo or supercharged that V6 - PEACE LOVE n HIPPYNESS ✌❤☮
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
They did make a very limited run of the turbo Z24 Cavalier. Very hard to find.
The Charger GLH and GLHS models (as well as the Omni GLH and GLHS the Charger was based on) were really ahead of their time. The time they came out, muscle had come back in vogue with the Mustang/Capri 5.0 (and even the Mustang SVO with the 2.3 turbo), the Z28/IROC Camaro, and the Formula and Trans Am Firebird. Yet, Chrysler stuck to sports compacts as their muscle cars, and that was not such a bad thing. Of course, later on, we saw them introduce muscle in the 2000s with the Magnum, 300, and Challenger/Charger, but the GLH and GLHS models were ahead of their time as evidenced by modern compact cars still front-wheel drive and still equipped with turbo 4 cylinder engines.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
And the Shelby’s were fast! They beat a lot of cars back in their day
The glh was faster than the supercars of time
The mechanical quality was far better, at least easier to fix back then!
Gentlemen, only with your permission, here are my favorite four cars after watching your superbe vidéo.
Fourth place: Mercury Comet. Third place: Oldsmobile 442.
Second place: Pontiac Sunbird formula. And the Winner, Ladies and Gentlemen, is The Dodge Aspen!!! What an American Dream Car !!!!!!!!! Thanks for your superbe vidéo, those days where we were YOUNG and happy with our Muscle Cars! See you later alligator at the wild crocodile !!!!
I remember the Citation from when I was a kid and even new, the X-11 wasn't often seen. By the time I graduated high school, Citations had almost disappeared.
Same here James. Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
I had a Z24 convertible back in the early 90s. It was a nice car for the time.
4:15 I believe you mean the Omni GLH (supposedly for "Goes Like Hell").
6:10 No, the '78-'79 Cutlass models were not hatchbacks. They were slant-back sedans, but the rear windows did not lift with the rear deck. Also, no mention of the 260 V8 and manual 5-speed (dog-leg first gear position with 2-5 in the H-shift-pattern) option? That had been around since 1976.
I remember actor Gary Frank (from the series 'Family') touting the 260 5-speed 442 in period commercials.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
The fact that the Shelby Charger is on this list is debatable. It was a hauler. They rest really are debatable except I'm pretty sure Ford offered the 79 Cobra in a 5.0.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
I thought it was only a turbo 4
@@extremedrivr It had a zero to sixty time of 6.7 seconds which was comparable to any muscle car (like the Trans Am) of that time.
@@gregvarner9562 6.7? I hope you're joking, because it wasn't even close to that.
I would have to agree; Shelby Charger is a bit debatable. I had the Plymouth equivalent (Turismo 2.2) and it was one of the best performance cars I've ever owned.
I thought the Maverick/Comet was based on a slightly revised Falcoln chassis. The Pinto, I believe, was pulled from a model from Ford of Europe. I could be wrong.
The Maverick was derived from the Falcon chassis. The 'European' part of the Pinto that you had heard about was the engines. Those were from various Ford of Europe engine plants. The rest of the car was designed and built in the US.
Some peeps are wrong sometimes. Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
Calling anything with the Citation name on it a "muscle car" seems like sacrilege! 😂😂
That's why it's debatable. Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
A sports coupe , is Not a muscle car
That Volare Road Runner is pretty cool looking.
I had a 83 Capri RS with a 302 SVO and 5 speed manual transmission. That car was equal to the Camaro's with the 350 v8
That must have been Awesome to drive! Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
No doubt added, in '83 SVO recently formed to develop the turbo 4.
Except they never made a Camaro with a 350 in 83....The capri was a little quicker than a base 83 305 camaro , but my L69 305 5 speed Camaro ran right next to my best friends 83 Mclaren RS he bought brand new off the showroom floor. And our friend Pats Shelby Charger blew both our doors off every time we raced him.
@@bdd1469 the Shelby chargers were quick, especially the GLHS models
I loved my 80' Capri with the S6. Great A/C, full set of 6 gauges, center armrest with storage, huge available space with 3rd door, enough room in the engine bay to sit in while tuning around, massive fender flares for wide tires if desired, and overall good looks with 27mpg.
I've never seen a car change more than the Mercury Capri. It went from a compact Euro coupe to Mercury's version of the Fox body Mustang, to a tiny Australian-sourced convertible.
I suppose that's par for the course. I haven't been happy with FORD naming that new electric car, "Mustang Mach e". That car should've been called Falcon, Comet or Fairlane. Absolutely nothing links that car to the Mustang line-up. Seems it was done by popular Vote at the Focus Groups by mindless people.
My brother had one. I loved it! Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
@@bruschmidt9943 That has nothing to do with anything other than the EV nonesense.
@@ThisOldCarChannel Which one?
My sister had a German-built '74 Merc Capri and it was one nice little ride.
The Shelby didn't belong there they were actually fairly fast
Thanks for sharing the info and watching Joe!
take a closer look what the Mercury Capri 79-86 foxbody there $$$$
I doubt if the announcer/presenter lived through the era. These cars were not bad for their time, a time of engineered oil/gas shortages. I'd still rather relive the late 1970's and early 1980's even with these cars. What good is a contemporary 5L Mustang if you cannot afford to drive it?
Dude. Listening comprehension is important. He said the quality sucked. And it did. Citation? Check. Fiero? Check. The Citation had many recalls and some Fieros would catch on fire.
I am 57 years old and boy did I live thru these and a lot more with my dad and uncles. Thanks for sharing the info and watching Mary!
@@ThisOldCarChannel
I'm with Mary in betting you hadn't lived thru this era - if only cause you present these cars in such a positive light...
When the reality is, most of them were complete crap!
These were the years the big 3 were getting their collective asses kicked by the Japanese imports - and rightfully so!!!
Not only was handling & performance abysmal - but engineering & overall build quality was atrocious!!! All they were doing was going to the parts bin and trying to cobble together something different...
In fact, had it not been for the import tariffs imposed by uncle Sam, they may have ALL gone under by the end of the eighties!
Truth is, you lost me awhile back - when you once referred to the Cadillac Cimarron as a good car!!!
Dude - I had a nervous twitch for days after watching that video!😂
P.S. You forgot the Sunbird's sister - the Chevy Monza.
77-79 Dodge Magnum with the 400 4 barrel V8?
I believe the V8 for the Volare and Aspen was 318 in³, not 316.
Muscle cars?? Where??? The Capri w the Black Cat option kinda qualifies, that's it.
I grew up during this time...most American cars designated "Sports Cars" were catagorized as such due mostly to visual styling and packaging.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching Johnny!
None of these cars were ever considered as "muscle cars". They were never marketed as or thought of as "muscle cars".
They were considered "sporty" versions of thier cousins except for the Fiero. That was a stand alone car. But again, never considered a muscle car nor marketed as such.
I'd be interested in your take on the Buick Lesabre T Type . Maybe even a video on other " big name" less popular editions that slid by unrecognized.
I am familiar with every one of the cars on this list. I also drove most of them and owned 2 of them. Being debatable muscle cars they are not. No muscle anywhere in this pack. But most of them were a cut above their standard versions, and some, like the citation x-11, Shelby Charge and Capri RS were actually very fun and spirited performers. The Volare Road Runner and Aspen RT were available with 360 V-8s with a high performance head and four barrel carburetor along with upgraded brakes and suspensions. Those guys were actually pretty darn decent performers. While today they are dog slow and dead meat performance wise, most of these cars were actually fun to drive cars. The mustangs, fox body capris, Oldsmobile G body Cutlass hurst and 442 models are actively sought after cars today. They all are hot properties in the hot rod performance market for performance modifications. And the Shelby chargers were really hot little pocket rockets with just a little tweaking. This list is a good case of knowing what boxes to check on the order form to get a number of factory hot sporty cars in a period of very dim performance available from the showroom floor. If you find them, a number of these cars are available for very reasonable prices and can be very enjoyable drivers even today. Stuff a eco boost R cylinder with a manual transmission out of a salvage mustang, and both the fox body Capri and mustang become a totally wild and crazy animal. Every car on this list will become something totally awesome performance cars wise when stuffed with any modern takeout salvage motor and transmission readily available.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
Almost all those cars are products of the "Malaise" Era, with de-tuned engines that lowered compression and performance, all in the name of emissions reductions...and FUN. There's only so much one can do with a 7:8:1 CR and the standard timing at 5 degrees AFTER TDC..."By Gawd and Sonny Jesus", I kid you not! Fortunately, in some places many of them being over thirty years old, you don't have to "smog" them anymore, so more or less you can do the performance modifications on SOME of these vehicles. Granted, anything with that "Iron Duke", which was a "grocery-getter" engine, just isn't going to do much for it. For the Mopars with a 318 or 360, PLENTY of room to make that thing a "BEAST" if you're willing to spend some serious bucks on an engine rebuild that's oriented towards performance. That 360 mill, even with the iron crank, still makes a decent "street" engine, and with 10:1 compression, a "3/4" cam, a decent set of headers, and a tuned four-barrel carb (and don't toss that Thermoquad if it works, it's perfectly fine) you can get about 300 honest horses and still have something that's drive-able and wont' guzzle TOO much gas. Look up "Uncle Tony's Garage" for tips on Mopar performance.
@@selfdo I remember the “iron duke” engines very well. I disliked them in almost every GM car that was equipped with them. More than anything else, it was the sound they made when you put the throttle down. In the light cars they put them in, they would move them ok for day to day driving, but the sound and feel was just horrible. Believe it or not, you could tune and modify then to deliver decent performance for their size. But why bother when in many of the vehicles they came in you could yank them and drop in a small block Chevy v8 for cheap and more than double your power. I remember a rental olds cutlass 2 door coupe we were given as a rental. The guy I shared it with hated it. But I saw some hidden charms in it. It was very light weight, it was a lower trim level model, but it had comfortable seats with the velour (corduroy) fabric covers so they were grippy and kind of held you in place. It had a center console with the shifter. It had those skinny 80 series radial all season tires tires on it.
I spent an hour poking around the car, making sure all systems, fluids, latches lights and hinges were properly set up and working. (rentals in that little city we got were very neglected and always way out of adjustment with as little maintenance as possible.) the tires all were way low on tire pressure. Basically, almost flat. I then tuned the tires air pressure for the best road handling they could deliver. Then drove the car. It’s performance was transformed. It went from a sluggish slug to a light and nimble driving car. My buddy was shocked at how good the car suddenly became the next time he drove it. And he wanted to know how I made the car so much better. But no matter what I did, there was no getting around that gritty groaning iron duke sound And feel, even though the car ran and performed so much better.
It wasn't only the Capri's front end that was different. The taillights were also different than the Mustang. The '83-'86 Capri also added a "bubbleback" hatch unlike the Mustang & a unique rear bumper cover with smaller taillights.
All '79-'86 Capris had wheel well "bulges" which also differentiated it from the Mustang.
These were aesthetic changes, not "aesthetical" as you said.
And yes, they most certainly are sought after by Ford/Mercury collectors.
I own a darn near MINT ‘77 Black and Gold Trans-Am,but I always liked the “Road Runner”. I never really cared about speed too much…I just thought they looked COOL! 🚗 👀
As a kid in my early 80’s, I actually thought the majority of the cars shown were pretty cool looking. I was never a FWD fan. So i have always ignored them. But the rear wheel drive models were fun for sure.
Thanks for sharing and watching Johnny!
I had an X-11 back in the day. Other than the slight oil burn issue, it wasn't terrible. Plenty of interior space, decent pep, and the wheels (with white letter BFGs), hood bulge and graphics let people know it was a little different, but in a good way for the times.
At timestamp 4:18
Sorry, that should be "...based on the Omni GLH (Goes Like Hell)...", not GHL.
Thanks again sir for sharing the info and watching!
I'm old......I remember all these cars 🚗, working at a grocery store, many years ago.
I'll take one of each please...and a warehouse to store them in! Thanks for the video.
I have a 79 capri rs 5.0, bought it for 2k, needs a rebuild, modern foxbody upgrades planned.
The fierro can be updated with 3.8 supercharger from gm.
Back in the 60s through the 90s most of my family was GM employed. My father (who passed away in 2019) used to work at and retired from the Cadillac plant in Lake Orion Michigan in 2001 but I remember most of his time was at Fisher Body back in the day.
We had a 1967 NOVA and I remember the Fisher Body logo on the floor board. Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
I guess we could debate on what is considered a muscle car. None of these cars are it. I own 2 Fox body Mustangs and don’t even consider them muscle cars. I prefer the category of pony car or even sports car.
My Aunt had a base-model Starfire with an automatic, it lasted her 11 years commuting as a teacher- very reliable!!!
The Z24 is my favorite.. I would love to own one
The Capri is a "Pony car" like the Mustang (which created the class), Camaro & Firebird.
A muscle car is a smallish car with a large engine. For it's era it just as much of a "muscle car" as the Mustang with which it shared ALL it's drivetrain, suspension, braking components.
Some years it (& Mustang) were the quickest cars in their class, some years they were the quickest American cars overall.
You need to remember we were just coming out of the "smog era" & in '80-'81 the 5.0/302 was dropped from the Capri/Mustang due to 2nd fuel crisis. The ONLY V8 available in the '80-'81 Capri/Mustang was the 4.2/255 an "underbored" 302.
Well done. A wonderful trip down memory lane of American Automotive Mediocrity! You omitted the 1976 Oldsmobile Omega. Powered by the mythical 260 v8. Timeless in bunmblebee yellow/black, with the 14in. rally wheels. Smoke one wheel all day with that Oldsmobile torque!
Thanks for sharing and watching Jim!
ahaha, my dad back in that day had the bank he worked for (senior loan officer) to get him a Citation back in like 1986 or so since his LTD or whatever he was driving was a big cost for his commute. Eventually the car literally burned down.
Lol, the Citation (next only to the Chevy Vega) was perhaps the worst car GM ever produced - total parts bin cobbled P.O.S.!!!
I had a 1980 Citation. It wasn't an X-11, just a standard coupe, NOT a hatchback. Bright red, 3 speed manual, and plenty of room for a 6'2" guy. The transmission crapped out, it wasn't uncommon for them, I got it fixed. I loved that car! I would have had it for years if some 85 year old dude didn't hit me head on. Insurance company totaled it. I actually got more from them than I paid for it!
The Fiero Formula was actually a decent performance budget sports car.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching Erin!
That was a very interesting video! Although I'd step back from calling any of these examples a muscle car in the traditional sense, they reflected the challenges of the time, with the technology that prevailed.
Thank you for including the Oldsmobile Starfire. One of my cousins owned a striking yellow Starfire in the 1990's - it was certainly a unique model in New Zealand and especially in the tiny seaside village he lived in.
Capri was a Lincoln model in the early & mid '50s. The Comet was initially a Mercury Falcon, the oldest one I saw was a '63, in a neighborhood of retirees.
Thanks for sharing the info and watching Tom!
Got my 1st Z24 back I was 20, loved it!
The Capri Deff was a muscle car!! It is easy to modify, especially with the Mighty 5.0 Litre, also I loved that Citation X11 !
Fiero Formula front in center on the video featured photo, but not the Pontiac Formula featured in the video. Mistake?
Loved 😍 most of them. Olds Starfire GT. Love the Fiero
Who remembers the CHRYSLER COR-DOBA!
with rich Corinthian leather seats!
Tribute to Carlo Montiban! CORDOBA!!!!
I guess they eradicated all the Corinthian cows cause you don't hear about them anymore. Were Corinthian cows softer than American cows? Anyway, loved the commercials 😂😂😂
Ricardo Gonzalo Pedro Montalbán y Merino (per Wikipedia) lol
@@culcune Ahh! Correct! Thanks!
I remember the commercial vividly sir. Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
@@ThisOldCarChannel As Long as you keep em coming!
oh wow !! great to see the '79 Pontiac Sunbird on here, i had one when i was stationed at Eglin AFB Florida, 3.8 4-speed, would have been better with a V8, but it was what it was ... fun car, mine was the fastback with black aluminum louvers , loved those snowflake wheels
7:00 Olds 442: Somebody please tell me, I missed seeing the factory tachometer that wasn't visible in the photo panning? 😕 If it outright didn't have one, I'm not surprised. This was how GM rolled in the 1980's
You missed it. There, I told you. Ha! Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
And that 1978-79 Cutlass Salon based 442 was actually a trunk not a hatchback.
There's nothing debatable about this. These cars simply are not Muscle cars. Especially the Fiero. The Muscle car era was long gone by 1980.
I owned an ‘82 X-11. I wish I still had it.
Out of all these “Muscle Cars”, the 1979 Dodge Lil Red Express was the true “Muscle Car”.
Pontiac Fieros - including Formulas and GTs- are, by the nature of their being, sports cars. They can be argued as 'sports muscle' though.
Should we have that argument before or after they melted?😂
I grew up in the "malaise era." None of these cars had the power to keep up with their predecessors. However real gas guzzling muscle cars of the 60's and 70's were just used cars at this time which could be purchased at unimaginably cheap prices. High schoolers were driving around in GTOs and GTXs!
yeah man i remember seeing chevy chevelles for sale for 3500! a 69 charger for 5000!
Not in my area. We did have 1 guy who drove a 67 camaro 396 and a guy with a 81 firebird. Everyone else drove those ugly imports or pocket rockets. Escort gt's, mustang gt's and z24s. An occasional omni or conquest.
Back in 02 I had a 94 Z24 Cavalier with a 3.1 V6. It wasn't a bad car, performance wise. I had a good time with it!
Buffalo suburb dealer cereullo motors, Lincoln Mercury dealer was taking the 302 equipped comet, adding thrush side pipes, aluminum slot mags and marketed it as a budget supercar to combat the high price of insurance.
I had a 1985 Mustang GT and with a little tuning I was able to hit 12 second 1/4 times. Those were great times.
The term Muscle Car has been perverted to mean anything with a zippy engine. BAD.
Does anybody remember the first true production muscle cars invented by MOPAR in '60 ??
True Thanks for watching and the comment ! Boca Brothers!
You are correct, but most people think that the gto was the first muscle car, but it wasn’t
Thanks for sharing this comprehensive list of muscle cars!!! 👍👍🙂
My pleasure! Thanks for watching Christopther!
The Fiero was a sports car. Not exactly that fast or up to par, but it had a mid engine and 2 seats. Definitely not a muscle car
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
I had a federal modified 83' Chevy X-11 loved it! Would love to have another one
My first car was an 89 Dodge Daytona and it couldnt have been more underpowered. It had no guts and was built to appear like it was supposed to be fast and absolutely wasnt. It didnt help that I got it in 96 and already it had transmission issues even though I was able to keep it going for about another 4 to 5 years. That car deserved to be in this list for sure.
Unless I'm mistaken, the Daytona was the sister car of the Shelby Charger... He also forgot the Chevy Monza - sister to the Sunbird.
Your Daytona needed a 5 spd, it made a world of difference
@@paulhunter9613 yes it really did. A 5 speed would have put a smile on my face when driving it more often than not I'm sure.
The Mercury Comet looks nice. 😍
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
The horsepower numbers alone for these vehicles from the late 70's to 80's don't fully explain things. Unlike modern vehicles with all the airbags, computers and safety features that weight a lot. The cars from this era didn't weight much, so it took less power to get moving
Thanks for sharing the info and watching!
Great video, but is anything outside of the GN a muscle car? What are the performance requirements to be called a muscle car vs questionable?
Thanks for watching and the comment ! Boca Brothers!
Had one of those RS turbos, looked great, couldn't go😢
We believe it! Appreciate ya! Hey can ya do us a favor and subscribe to the channel. We can't tell who is subribed or not so we're asking our viewers. Thanks - Michael and Danny B!
I drove a charger Shelby with just a high output 2.2 and a standard transmission and it did go pretty good because they were light.
I had a 74 merc comet gt 302 it was in rough shape and I was tired of fixing the lousy drum brakes sold it to a friend who needed a car WISH I HAD IT NOW never find another like it
Wish we still had all the old cars we once owned. Thanks for sharing the info and watching!