Henry Rollins is a great interviewer, he asked his questions, and just lays back, and listens. Most guys with there own program try to dominate the conversation. Henry is a class act.
I remember the first time I saw the Welcome to the Jungle video, then going to school the next day to tell my friends about this new band that's half-punk and half-metal.
This is exactly why Matt Sorum was wrong for the band I think. And he's a great talent, but he sounds too accurate, like they put John Bonham through Beat Detective: ua-cam.com/video/hT4fFolyZYU/v-deo.html
The punk sensibility as Henry described it is not in their sound but in their attitude. GnR brought hard rock to its most visceral form. There were a couple of “metal” bands in the early 80’s that were really cool, including Iron Maiden with Paul D’anno. Then everything went off the rails with hair metal and dumb thrash metal.
Check out Duff's book. He is one of my inspirations. After reading it I found out he raced mountain bikes and went to college later in his life. I didn't start racing until my mid 30's and just about have my Associates degree at the age of 55. I'm a guitar player but once I can afford it, I'm buying a bass.
Hi RIchard, I so appreciate your comment- I was just coming out of a stagnagt career dark hole in 2012 when I read his book at age 29, I started powerliftin and building tons of muscle and imrpoving my career and got my CPA finished at the age of 36. I also started biking as a commuting tool.
Right on!!! Never stop! Keep going. I had a professor in college that said her aunt achieved her dream and was accepted into Harvard in her late 70s, with expected graduation early 80s. It is never too late. Proud of you!
I remember seeing interviews with Duff a several years back and he could barely put together a sentence. He's a solid dude and I'm delighted to see him clean and still hanging in there and able to tell these stories.
I just read Duff's autobiography and it was very inspiring. Just how he pulled himself from the brink of certain death and reinvented himself as a husband, father, academic an artist.
I don’t know why I did it but I showed my 88 year old father some sections of this interview. Especially when Duff was talking about the people he has seen while touring the world and what his takeaway is about humanity. And my dear father said “this kid has his shit together”. To hear my 88 year old hard nosed retired Marine father call Duff “This kid” just really hit me as funny as hell but you could see the sincerity in my dad’s face.
TheAxe4Ever Thank your dad for his service for me please. I am prior Air Force and have the utmost respect for Marines. They are really really tough guys. My uncle was one.
Tami Garrett I sure will tell him! And thank you for your service as well. My brother was in the Air Force too! Yeah, my dad can be hard as steel at times, but one of the most compassionate guys I’ve ever known. At his age, he is losing more and more of his Marine Corpsmen Brothers each year and I can see how it affects him. I love listening to the stories he tells during the Korean War. Some are funny and some can get pretty dark. When I sit and listen to him, I think I need to be recording them and write a book or something.
I love Henry doing interviews. I also love Duff; he comes across as a chill dude with a positive vibe. But Henry, he makes everything 100 time more interesting. He could be talking about taking a dump and I’ll listen.
He’s got a whole lot of interesting stuff to say - if you are interested in democracy, the US Constitution, society’s problems, personal responsibility, global challenges, history of punk rock, fueling your passions, developing a work ethic, and the like. If you aren’t, then you probably should just go to an Ariadne Grande concert. I don’t agree with him on many issues, but he does make me think, and that’s what he wants.
Love that Duff calls back to DOA so often in interviews. DOA toured ferociously back in the day and was a regular feature in many of the Western Canadian venues I loved to visit. Cheers.
I once played with my punk rock band at a DOA gig. Awesome guys and a great band ofcourse but I'm suprised right here (Netherlands) almost no one really knows them which is a shame.
@@erwinj9697 Shame, indeed. Joey always had a great crew to tour with and they knew how to have fun and put on great shows. Saw them lots and lots and an ex played with her band at a number of festivals with them. Miss those days! Getting old.
Great interview! Two of my favourite people to listen to. My Son and I were lucky enough to meet Duff in 2011 at the Birmingham Guitar Show in the UK and he was an absolute gentleman. I think i may have been the only person to ask about Neurotic Outsiders and you could see that he had a twinkle in his eye when talking about Steve Jones. Great bloke
Jeffrey Moscardelli 100% Jeffrey!!! Fucking Ferocious!! Hits you right in the sack and keeps going!! This is one of,if not THE most powerful openings ever!! Cheers!!!
How the years have changed these two. I remember a time when they were both very different from what they’ve become. Good to see them both alive and well!
It's actually called Theory of Mind which is a measure of empathy, something those with Asperger's Syndrome or just otherwise being on the Autistic Spectrum lack....
@@spiritualpath790 was it him writing it or did he has a ghost writer, like nearly all autobiographys have, the often tell someone their life story and they go away and write it.
Before he left Seattle , Duff was in a great band Ten Minute Warning that really helped shaped the sound of things to come. You can find the recordings on YT. There was a reunion record in 94 thats good , but the original stuff is more important historically
I admire Duff to have the courage to say to Henry that Henry was one of the true musicians he saw growing up and he knew that he had to change his life if he was going to make it. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to say to someone that they were one of the people that influenced to make a major life change. Personally, I have met famous musicians and we have hung out, talked, and I have said I was a fan, but never have it gone to the lengths of this - I feel it would be beyond uncomfortable.
A shame, isn't it? Society has conditioned people to believe that you arent supposed to be open about your troubles or display anxiety. So people suppress it and it builds inside of them. Then they search for outlets, like telling their problems to people they "idolize" (like Duff) that they dont know, instead of telling people they know who could help them. I'm sure Duff thinks the same way when he hears things like that, i know i would. I would pull that person aside and tell them that as well, then hug them
Maybe because they've been getting therapy for years by putting your CD in the hifi and pressing play and think the real person might offer assistance likewise
It's an awkward place where art is supposed to abstractly represent meaning & rising above everything in life. So the fans have been through a lot of experiences and changes while listening to your music, and they just earnestly want to let you know it meant something, that the art is alive out there. A good artist intuits correctly this is a good time to just sympathize with a quasi-stranger for 20 seconds, that's all people want. Connected.
It's a treat to see thoughtful people who share a wealth of experiences and an absolute love of music have a conversation. I know Henry is acting more as an interviewer here, but they're both on even footing - it's not a tit-for-tat type of thing (you know, question? answer. question? answer.), it's more of a journey.
Mr Brownstone is my fav G.&R. Song....love G.&R....you guys were a big part of my teenage and young adult years...you were playing in the car...at the party....or a school dance...
These sort of conversations are so awesome, it brings you inside their minds and life beyond what you see on stage. Very interesting and educational stuff, great talk guys.
Duff, you are awesome bro. I lived and died by GNR when I was young I had their posters all over my wall I spotted their shirts and I would defend them till the end whenever someone talked shit about Axl or the band. Duff is proof no matter how deep into the darkness your demons take you There is always hope.
Duffs incredible journey back from the brink to sobriety and his willingness to share it very openly, really helped me kick the booze, just over 4 months, but like he said himself, I'm done. Thanks Duff.
didn't realise duff had worked with shooter, i started listening to shooter through his nephew struggle after coming from a metal/rock place am loving the new breed of outlaw country/country rap
Duff really aged well compared to some of the others. He always seemed like a cool, down to earth guy even when he was drunk half the time during the bands crazy heyday.
Check out the Rollins Band 1986 "Hot Animal Machine" album. Tied in my book with that legendary LP. (I got that CD with the "Herietta Collins And The Wife Beating Child Haters" EP attached to it from Smash Records in DC)
It is a miracle this guy is still alive. Back in the day it was impossible to understand what he was saying. He was so f+++ed up he could barely talk. And look at him now.
What a great back and forth. All those years of go I would've never pegged Duff as this punk guy who set the course based off of seeing Henry at a Black Flag show.
The early days of GNR was some of the best and just rawest days of hard rock. Those guys were the real deal in the early to mid 80s. It definitely got inflated and even some commercial sounding records in the end but no one can deny Appetite for destruction and it's pure rock greatness
Appetite is the greatest hard rock album ever! Im a metal drummer at 44 and remember when the album came out. My mother found the album and saw the rape scene inside the cover and freaked lol! But yeah! Afd is the greatest of all time!
People always say things like this, but so much of Illusion 1 and 2 were so far away from commercial. Songs like Locomotive and Coma are epic masterpieces. As much of appetite was "commercial" as anything else.
Henry Rollins is a great interviewer, he asked his questions, and just lays back, and listens. Most guys with there own program try to dominate the conversation. Henry is a class act.
For sure
Good point mate 👍
The best professors can listen as well as they can lecture.
I agree with you. 100%
Henry is a class act and as real as we get for sure...
Rollins described GnR correctly. A rock band with a punk rock sensibility.
I remember the first time I saw the Welcome to the Jungle video, then going to school the next day to tell my friends about this new band that's half-punk and half-metal.
This is exactly why Matt Sorum was wrong for the band I think.
And he's a great talent, but he sounds too accurate, like they put John Bonham through Beat Detective:
ua-cam.com/video/hT4fFolyZYU/v-deo.html
@qedqef a rock and roll band with melodic sensibility would be more accurate
@@j_freed too straight, no bounce
The punk sensibility as Henry described it is not in their sound but in their attitude. GnR brought hard rock to its most visceral form. There were a couple of “metal” bands in the early 80’s that were really cool, including Iron Maiden with Paul D’anno. Then everything went off the rails with hair metal and dumb thrash metal.
Check out Duff's book. He is one of my inspirations. After reading it I found out he raced mountain bikes and went to college later in his life. I didn't start racing until my mid 30's and just about have my Associates degree at the age of 55. I'm a guitar player but once I can afford it, I'm buying a bass.
Hi RIchard, I so appreciate your comment- I was just coming out of a stagnagt career dark hole in 2012 when I read his book at age 29, I started powerliftin and building tons of muscle and imrpoving my career and got my CPA finished at the age of 36. I also started biking as a commuting tool.
Right on!!! Never stop! Keep going. I had a professor in college that said her aunt achieved her dream and was accepted into Harvard in her late 70s, with expected graduation early 80s. It is never too late. Proud of you!
when did duff get his college degree?
Good for you! Never too late to learn!
Cool! Hope DH or Enduro at least
I think Duff McKagan is David Bowie's best character since Ziggy Stardust.
The Sovereign never died .
@@drinkthekoolaidkids He simply is enjoying a New Career In a New Town of Paradise City.
SOF the Guild is forever
@@raydisradus9746 Yes ....... but WHEN is the new season coming out ?
@troll hunter shut up
Duff seems like a really good dude. I’m really glad he was able to overcome his demons.
Duff seems so sincere and genuine and cool. Henry, intense and interested in everything associated with music.
I was never a fan of GNR, but this is a great interview. Seems like a very genuine, thoughtful and well spoken person.
I want to read his books. Lucky to have bumped into him in Vegas at a Def Lep show at the HRH and Fontana at the race track. Very kind guy.
@@wworden3868 Check out"It's so easy
(and other lies) Amazing book!
Yeah, he seems like a narcissistic douche XD What an idiot! Stupid answers. Love G&R!!
Henry makes it thoughtful. Ppl just wanna open up to him.
Henry is still my favorite storyteller. Hes so curious which we tend to lose as we get older.
Always good to hear from henry.
So glad hes sober and the others are still alive.
I love that hes happy and I hope everyone feels that
I remember seeing interviews with Duff a several years back and he could barely put together a sentence. He's a solid dude and I'm delighted to see him clean and still hanging in there and able to tell these stories.
I hope Steven Adler is still clean too!
@@ludwigfan3013 I think Steve still smokes weed. Which isn't too bad.
Duff is a great speaker. So insightful considering how his life could have gone. Im so happy he got sober. Happy for him. Rock god.
I love you Duff
Duff is a true gentleman
Duff is a rock god, and so underrated. He has been involved in so many awesome projects and also stays so damn humble.
He truly is a great bass player.
Lmao
I just read Duff's autobiography and it was very inspiring. Just how he pulled himself from the brink of certain death and reinvented himself as a husband, father, academic an artist.
Two of my favourite famous musicians. Legends the pair of them
Rollins is a musician?
My definition of Guns is the same as Rollins said it here. A Rock band with a punk attitude element. They were raw and dangerous great combination.
I don’t know why I did it but I showed my 88 year old father some sections of this interview. Especially when Duff was talking about the people he has seen while touring the world and what his takeaway is about humanity. And my dear father said “this kid has his shit together”. To hear my 88 year old hard nosed retired Marine father call Duff “This kid” just really hit me as funny as hell but you could see the sincerity in my dad’s face.
I would like to thank you're father for his service
William Mitchell Awesome! Thank you so much. I will certainly show him your comment!
TheAxe4Ever
Stellar sir.
❤ my dad.
TheAxe4Ever Thank your dad for his service for me please. I am prior Air Force and have the utmost respect for Marines. They are really really tough guys. My uncle was one.
Tami Garrett I sure will tell him! And thank you for your service as well. My brother was in the Air Force too! Yeah, my dad can be hard as steel at times, but one of the most compassionate guys I’ve ever known. At his age, he is losing more and more of his Marine Corpsmen Brothers each year and I can see how it affects him. I love listening to the stories he tells during the Korean War. Some are funny and some can get pretty dark. When I sit and listen to him, I think I need to be recording them and write a book or something.
God bless you Duff, glad you're still here to tell your tale, and shed some much needed light on the human condition.
Nothing but respect for both these guys
I’ve never really listened to a Duff interview before. I’m blown away. He’s a real one!
Duff!!! The guy is a gentlemen. He’s a credit to himself and a joy to listen to talk.
I love Henry doing interviews. I also love Duff; he comes across as a chill dude with a positive vibe. But Henry, he makes everything 100 time more interesting. He could be talking about taking a dump and I’ll listen.
Really? He's not that interestimg
@@nickh8737 I think hes interesting.
He’s got a whole lot of interesting stuff to say - if you are interested in democracy, the US Constitution, society’s problems, personal responsibility, global challenges, history of punk rock, fueling your passions, developing a work ethic, and the like. If you aren’t, then you probably should just go to an Ariadne Grande concert. I don’t agree with him on many issues, but he does make me think, and that’s what he wants.
Love that Duff calls back to DOA so often in interviews. DOA toured ferociously back in the day and was a regular feature in many of the Western Canadian venues I loved to visit. Cheers.
I once played with my punk rock band at a DOA gig. Awesome guys and a great band ofcourse but I'm suprised right here (Netherlands) almost no one really knows them which is a shame.
@@erwinj9697 Shame, indeed. Joey always had a great crew to tour with and they knew how to have fun and put on great shows. Saw them lots and lots and an ex played with her band at a number of festivals with them. Miss those days! Getting old.
Constantly
The Diodes
Teenage Head
Great interview! Two of my favourite people to listen to. My Son and I were lucky enough to meet Duff in 2011 at the Birmingham Guitar Show in the UK and he was an absolute gentleman. I think i may have been the only person to ask about Neurotic Outsiders and you could see that he had a twinkle in his eye when talking about Steve Jones. Great bloke
Duff has one of the great intro's and drums in "it's so easy"
Jeffrey Moscardelli 100% Jeffrey!!! Fucking Ferocious!! Hits you right in the sack and keeps going!! This is one of,if not THE most powerful openings ever!! Cheers!!!
Except he didn't play drums on It's So Easy that I know of. Or am I missing some well known trivia?
The intro to You Could Be Mine is better.
He plays bass guitar..not drums
@@hotlanta35 i know I've seen GNR 3 times and VELVET Revolver once live
Two legends of rock n roll sharing stories is just GOLD!!!!
Duff has got to be one of the coolest guys out there to be accepted to guns. He's a very very social person.
Can't get enough of that wonderful Duff.
I can’t either. I love listening to his interviews because he’s so intelligent and polite.
Duff is by far my favorite member of Guns N' Roses. And Rollins is my favorite spoken word artist. Hearing the two of them shoot the shit is awesome.
2 legendary men. Thx for the video
Fantastic interview. Rollins and Duff are the coolest. Thank you.
How the years have changed these two. I remember a time when they were both very different from what they’ve become. Good to see them both alive and well!
like many good talkers, henry loves to TALK, but unlike most good talkers he knows how and WHEN to listen. that's one true measure of smart.
BAM!!!!
It's actually called Theory of Mind which is a measure of empathy, something those with Asperger's Syndrome or just otherwise being on the Autistic Spectrum lack....
AMEN.
The look on Henry's face is classic when Duff says he opened for him
So when is Henry going to interview Glenn Danzig? Been waiting forever for that to happen.
Some romantic couples don't like to mix business with their personal lives.
Why would anyone want to do with that bloated,midget?
I really want to see him interview jello biafra.
@@joeschmidl3837 thank you
Cuz Glenn would give him the anti-interview attitude and Henry would beat the shit out of that fake bitch
Duff has a 1999 Bowie look going on.
Blond buff Chalie Sheen...
Was thinking more of iggy pop's brother? 😉
Not even close, Bowie was a far more handsome man.
@@Audfile Probably just mainly the hair.
My First Impression was Bowie
Brilliant interview. Two articulate men conversing on life.
These two gentlemen have been guests on “the church of what’s happening now”. They are cool. FACTS.👍😁
Henry has a podcast, although it is very sporadic. Look up "Henry and Heidi Podcast" here on UA-cam.
Joey Diaz rocks!!! It’s blue cheese with wings or fuck ya motha! 😂😂😂
@@bakerbrown6 Suka La Mink 💀
They do A LOT of fun stuff on Instagram.
Tremendous.
I enjoyed each minute of this conversation. Thanks to both of them and the whole crew that made this possible
If you liked this interview, you would really like Duff’s autobiography “It’s so easy and other lies.” I really enjoyed it.
Yes, it was awesome! Love his writing style!
@@spiritualpath790 was it him writing it or did he has a ghost writer, like nearly all autobiographys have, the often tell someone their life story and they go away and write it.
* Duff McKagan from Guns 'n' Roses Talks About Henry Rollins from Black Flag with Henry Rollins.
I think it always amazing to see two artists that actually respect each other and be fans of each other
Before he left Seattle , Duff was in a great band Ten Minute Warning that really helped shaped the sound of things to come. You can find the recordings on YT. There was a reunion record in 94 thats good , but the original stuff is more important historically
I adore Duff's new album. He's really evolved as a musician.
I admire Duff to have the courage to say to Henry that Henry was one of the true musicians he saw growing up and he knew that he had to change his life if he was going to make it. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to say to someone that they were one of the people that influenced to make a major life change. Personally, I have met famous musicians and we have hung out, talked, and I have said I was a fan, but never have it gone to the lengths of this - I feel it would be beyond uncomfortable.
Amazing Interview - Duff & Henry - Super 👍
Duff You're an inspiration Man
This interview should have been uncut and straight through from beginning to end! Two icons having a great conversation.
This was fantastic, just great.
beginning of sweet child is one of my fav bass lines
Pixies Gouge Away.
Yesterday's
I heard Paul McCartny had a band before he was in Wings.
His only "solo" type bass line really, or almost. And he manages to screw it up every time. Even sober...
“they [the fans] tell you a lot of things, more than they would tell their therapists or a best friend.”
A shame, isn't it? Society has conditioned people to believe that you arent supposed to be open about your troubles or display anxiety. So people suppress it and it builds inside of them. Then they search for outlets, like telling their problems to people they "idolize" (like Duff) that they dont know, instead of telling people they know who could help them. I'm sure Duff thinks the same way when he hears things like that, i know i would. I would pull that person aside and tell them that as well, then hug them
Because as an artists for a fan you've been their therapist or maybe even their best friend for them..
Maybe because they've been getting therapy for years by putting your CD in the hifi and pressing play and think the real person might offer assistance likewise
It's an awkward place where art is supposed to abstractly represent meaning & rising above everything in life.
So the fans have been through a lot of experiences and changes while listening to your music, and they just earnestly want to let you know it meant something, that the art is alive out there. A good artist intuits correctly this is a good time to just sympathize with a quasi-stranger for 20 seconds, that's all people want. Connected.
Henry is a great interviewer ! would love to see him do more with acts from the late 70's early 80's punk bands
Two of my favorite people in music. Both so intelligent and well-spoken.
i met him twice when he was with loaded ans such a down to earth guy no ego whatsoever
It's a treat to see thoughtful people who share a wealth of experiences and an absolute love of music have a conversation. I know Henry is acting more as an interviewer here, but they're both on even footing - it's not a tit-for-tat type of thing (you know, question? answer. question? answer.), it's more of a journey.
He's 1 of rock's great thinkers, very insightful and articulate....
Incredible artwork on Duffs arms...
Damn he seems like the nicest guy on the planet. Love it.
Super cool to meet Duf in this light.
Mr Brownstone is my fav G.&R. Song....love G.&R....you guys were a big part of my teenage and young adult years...you were playing in the car...at the party....or a school dance...
Such a great interview.
This was great. Never listened to Duff much but he’s got a great vibe.
Duff is the only Gunner I like. I read one of his books and he really got his life in order
These sort of conversations are so awesome, it brings you inside their minds and life beyond what you see on stage. Very interesting and educational stuff, great talk guys.
Amazing interview...two musicians from the front lines.
Such a great walk down memory lane
Thank you, I appreciate it
I've been around the world in fatigues . Thank you
Two legends ❤️
Duff from Guns talkin’ to Henry from Black Flag while wearing a Shooter Jennings cut up shirt. Let’s hear it for the outlaws. Waylon is smilin’ boys.
He toured with Shooter as his backup band, great show!
Waylon the original outlaw, a rock star in his own time.
@@cohokid6936 saw that tour in Chicago...fantastic show!
Duff, you are awesome bro. I lived and died by GNR when I was young I had their posters all over my wall I spotted their shirts and I would defend them till the end whenever someone talked shit about Axl or the band. Duff is proof no matter how deep into the darkness your demons take you There is always hope.
Love some McKagan! Artist!...nerver knew he was a drummer!
Gets some sticks- you are now a drummer
Damn these guys are fuckin rad to this day still fucking rad...
when he starts talking about reading history, my respect deepened so much.
Duff .... coolest man in rock
Great interview. Henry Rollins is rad, such a smart guy.
Rollins is a dufus
He's not as bad ass as u think he is he pussi3d out many times he even said it himself.
What are great interview. I've always been a fan of these 2 for different reasons....more so now
Duffs incredible journey back from the brink to sobriety and his willingness to share it very openly, really helped me kick the booze, just over 4 months, but like he said himself, I'm done. Thanks Duff.
This popped popped up on my suggestions. What in the Holy f*ck?? Awesome!
Great interview.
Underrated for sure. Rocket Queen has a phenomenal bass line to name one of many. Duff was probably the rational one who held the band together.
Totally. Rocket queen might be their best track. It’s got everything.
They should have wrote 12 more songs when they did Appetite.
But it's OK. They put everything good they had into the songs on the record.
I love that track, especially drums.
@@j_freedthey did, and many ended up on the Illusions
Awesome! Keep on rocking!
Speechless!!
he is my fav GN'R player
Hearing that Joe Strummer story and I have even MORE respect for him now than I already do.
Street cred: Gold card.
didn't realise duff had worked with shooter, i started listening to shooter through his nephew struggle after coming from a metal/rock place am loving the new breed of outlaw country/country rap
Duff really aged well compared to some of the others. He always seemed like a cool, down to earth guy even when he was drunk half the time during the bands crazy heyday.
One of the nicest rock stars I e ever had the pleasure of meeting
Cool interview thanks
Henry Rollins autograph is permanent on my rib cage!!! Sweet interview👍
Duff is such a down to earth guy
i've heard the rollins band - the end of silence back in the 90's ... great album solid and aggressive (y)
Check out the Rollins Band 1986 "Hot Animal Machine" album. Tied in my book with that legendary LP. (I got that CD with the "Herietta Collins And The Wife Beating Child Haters" EP attached to it from Smash Records in DC)
Duff is the coolest.
$%^# yeah Duff! $%^# yeah Henry! What a great interview.
I had to pause this in the middle just to watch "Liar"
Two elder statesmen of rock talking about their influences and youth. Great stuff.
It is a miracle this guy is still alive. Back in the day it was impossible to understand what he was saying. He was so f+++ed up he could barely talk. And look at him now.
Mark Richardson no, definitely not.
NicoSlash2011 Not at all the same
@Mark Richardson lol, exactly
DUFF is buff.. Wow he is in shape ! AWESOME !
Awesome thanks!
Duff is an awesome guy!
What a great back and forth. All those years of go I would've never pegged Duff as this punk guy who set the course based off of seeing Henry at a Black Flag show.
The early days of GNR was some of the best and just rawest days of hard rock. Those guys were the real deal in the early to mid 80s. It definitely got inflated and even some commercial sounding records in the end but no one can deny Appetite for destruction and it's pure rock greatness
Appetite is the greatest hard rock album ever! Im a metal drummer at 44 and remember when the album came out. My mother found the album and saw the rape scene inside the cover and freaked lol!
But yeah! Afd is the greatest of all time!
Yeah I read the book as well
People always say things like this, but so much of Illusion 1 and 2 were so far away from commercial. Songs like Locomotive and Coma are epic masterpieces. As much of appetite was "commercial" as anything else.