Driven mad by his newfound cosmic power, Lord Vivec spent the next 3 --centuries-- millennia trying to decide whether he wanted to levitate in the lotus position or stand normally. This struggle went on until his final day. Edit: muh boy is old
“The most complex character”. That certainly explains the layout of Vivec City. Started playing Morrowind back in ‘02 and I still get lost in that madhouse.
TheRealPDizzle played mirrowind for the first time in 2017.. mind you after playing Skyrim and fallout 4 so the city of Vivek took me more than a week of real world time do 2 quests there
@Kristopher Prime the layout is one of those things where you don't get it until you've played it long enough. The most troubling part is the fact that each Canton has 3 levels but once you get that down it comes natural after awhile
Almalexia: I shall spread love and prosperity across Morrowind Sotha Sil: I shall learn all I can about The Aurbis and beyond Vivec: Time to get freaky!!!!!
@@180treehousegang8 True,true. Even after years of lore research and thousands of hours of playtime across Morrowind,Oblivion,Skyrim and ESO,The 36 lessons are still confusing in some aspects. I personally think there is some truth to them yet heavily embellished by Vivec himself. He's literally called "The warrior-poet"
The point of Vivec's Sermons isn't to be fan faction. The point of Vivec's sermons are to illustrate that Vivec is someone capable both physically and ethically of making their "fanfiction" reality, through CHIM. Anyone can write propaganda, it takes true ego to force reality to reflect your propaganda.
@@wiibrockster The thing about Vivec's Sermons is that they ARE true, even if they once would have been false. But they are also false. But they are also metaphors. Vivec exploited Dragon Breaks on a level beyond any other character in the series, maybe even Talos.
"Vivec wants to be all things at all times,every race, every gender and every hero, both infinite and finite but in the end Vivec can only ever be Vivec" Sotha Sil 2nd era 582
Characters like Vivec are why I love Morrowind so much. The amount of depth and mystique in the lore has been unmatched since. Morrowind really made you think about the gray areas and felt more like you were learning about a culture rather than playing a simple game.
Tbh I liked how the civil war handled gray areas, especially through things like Ulfrics dossie, it made it hard for me to choose as someone wanting the best for the province. Even if the quest is lackluster
Well, he kinda was born a god... and yet was not. By denying his mortal nature as a part of his godhood it is YOU who should be investigated by the Ordinators.
@@Sioolol He confessed it himself in his sermons that you seem to worship. Your exchanging of the good daedra for the worship of a false god is heresy. en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_36_Lessons_of_Vivec
This is the charm of the ES lore: that many things are not straightforward or certain and that there are different interpretations and perspectives. It makes it more real and at the same time more mysterious/interesting!
@@m.thorton9305 I don't see how anybody can think that. The lore is fascinating from the basics such as the various races and provinces all the way to the metaphysical stuff such as CHIM,Dragonbreaks and the Godhead.
@@daedra1386 I've met people like that yet at the same time; I have met people who started with Skyrim and went back to play Morrowind and Oblivion. I like it when they do it and enjoy playing them despite the often outdated graphics and mechanics.
I love the lore you guys put out, my sister is getting back into Skyrim with everything going on. She heard me listening to this and started asking questions, not realizing the bigger world beyond the adventure of her Dragonborn. We just spent the last 3 hours talking about all the lore and history. Thank you guys so much for helping that happen!
@@HarryG98 probably not but he could have mindfucked her by explaining how CHIM works and the 0 and 1 binary of the ES universe with Lorkhan traversing the "wheel's" (hence the O or 0) edge and looking on it from beyond seeing the "I" (hence the 1).
"Let's take a moment to talk about Vivecs benevolent side" *brings up the fact that he wasn't holding back the boulder out of saving them but as a failsafe in case they lost faith they all got wiped with him* The pettiness of the tribunal knows no bounds lmfaoooo
It wasn't really a failsafe, just kind of a gun to the head for the people of morrowind, they had to keep faith in him or he'd loose power and the rock would fall and kill everyone (as it eventually did). Still incredibly petty since he could've just put it down somewhere
@@killbossabullroarer7840 Neither of whom did anything to save Morrowind from the meteor or the Argonian invasion. Screw Azura, what did she expect from the Tribunal anyway? They worshiped Boethiah and Mephala so of course they backstabbed Nerevar.
Oh my god. We players experience the in between state of.godhood everytime we save a game. Leave for years. Load up that save, and no time has passed at all.
The "godhood" of the player is also extended when you think of the "godhead being" the being to whom all of that world is a dream, & the inhabitants can escape by dreaming their own world, the all powerful being is more likely then not Todd Howard or some other es writer, this world being his dream, & the escape is players who are inspired to create new worlds, to realize that we can make our dreams a reality (even if only a virtual one)
The fact that Vivec modified the Red moment after becoming a god shows something moving about him. Vivec doesn't hide his dark side,he boasts about his great and sinister deeds. But he always denies killing Nerevar, he admits it in a cryptic way in the 36 lessons and even modifies the Red moment. All of this make me think that Vivec regrets the murder of Nerevar. Even in his version of the Red moment Nerevar is a hero till the end and after becoming gods ALMSIVI made Nerevar a Saint. I think Vivec more than any other member of the tribunal really loved Nerevar. But the Hortator had to die so that ALMSIVI could be born. I conclude all this by saying that that video is really fantastic you really know this complex character and this complex universe.
Such Tolkinesque writing has gone into the Elderscrolls mythology. Truly, this is what Bethesda needs for it's upcoming Elderscrolls game: No more dumbing down, no more corporate greed, but a distilled comprehensible world with a bottomless depth of culture and history. Amazing work, Scott/FudgeMuppet. I still rekt Vivec way back then.
Also more rpg mechanics. I want to be able to play as a character and have options that affect the world around me. Not go through quests on rails with maybe 1 or 2 decisions along the way.
@@adamyooz Like: NPC: Fetch me some milk. You: I defeated the (insert main evil/villain)?! NPC: And be quick about it! Bethesda could learn allot from Horizon 0 Dawn, The Witcher, Cyberpunk 2077, etc, etc, etc.
I mean... It wasn't exactly dumbed down. Don't get me wrong, Skyrim's main story as you play it is pretty trash, but the lore is still there. Alduin being this dragon god that is destined to "eat the world" and start it anew is basically right up this alley, and there's plenty of other little pieces of this sort of stuff throughout the game. It's just... As I said, the dialogue and quests themselves are the clunky part.
@@adamyooz I agree... Obviously a game where every quest can have some huge impact on the world would be a bit hard to actually bring to fruition, and while I understand hardcore fans dislike essential NPC's... I think in a ton of cases they make sense, since they stop quests just completely breaking on people, or having the responsibilitys of a Jarl for example suddenly be filled in by a beggar to take their place, which would be pretty whack. Honestly I'd be pretty happy for something simple like an option to join the "bad guy" of whatever quest you're doing, (think silver-hand, the option to join the thieves guild) but I don't think it needs to go too deep, I still very much enjoyed how fun the world was to merely live in in Skyrim, and having the game tailored to a survival mode would be pretty great as well, y'know, not just adding in basic hunger mechanics or making it so all you can wear is fucking fur armour, like maybe add cloaks and stuff... ... At the very least though... For the love of gods, don't preset my backstory, that'd be great at the least lmao
I always assumed the androgyny was a physical alteration of his body after achieving divinity, but either way Vivec is more or less an acid trip of a character
They don't exist They are fake as hell If you acknowledge this fact while being a mortal You just erase yourself But if you give yourself copium You become God in that fake ass universes
Let me see if I understand: Vivec and Vec are both the same and different beings. The Dragon Break or Paradox is very similar to Time Travel but through the power and perspective of gods. The Aedra and Daedra see all events and possible outcomes all at once while the Tribunal does too but also experiences the linear reality that most mortals see. So technically the tribunal experiences the multiverse at the same time they experience the reality we and all the rest of the mortals experience. Very interesting and Puzzling. If I simplified it: The gods, including the tribunal, experience the multiverse all at once while us gamers experience a singular reality that has many contradictions because it mingles with other realities during dragon breaks/paradoxes. These dragon breaks/paradoxes aren’t seen from the same perspective as gods because the gods already see these contradictions due to their ability to see the multiverse. The tribunal technically exists outside and inside time kind of like The Elder Scrolls. If we take this knowledge and understanding then we can apply this to Skyrim’s Main Questline where The Dragonborn goes back in time to learn the dragonrend shout. Technically the Dragonborn is watching the event on the throat of the world from outside of time due to The Elder Scroll which is a piece of the universe and also is outside of the universe. It’s so confusing but also makes some sort of sense. One more thing, technically the multiverse points to the fact that the gods have multiple versions of themselves too but in the case of The Elder Scrolls franchise the gods all exist outside of time but can interact and physically appear with the multiverse realities. Specifically the reality that we all experience during the games. So anything can and can’t happen during a singular reality due to the Dragon Breaks/Paradoxes
@Vivec the Poet so anyone that uses the cheat room mod, is technically granting the Dragonborn CHIM, despite the fact that they didn't do anything to achieve it. I guess maybe we should have played as Talos, Vivec, and whatever other character reaches CHIM, rather than the characters that we've played as so far.
"The Elder Scrolls is a universe full of Myth Legend and Fact" Fudge Muppet is a strange chimera of a Muppet and Fudge. That covers Skyrim Videos with Scott and Drew
The failure of Vivec by establishing the Tribunal is opposed by the success of Tiber Septim in becoming Talos, the God of Self-Determination, who provides strength to persevere rather than comfort.
Vivec: So powerful that he can stop a rock on the sky and keep it there for years Also Vivec: Can levitatly sit for 2 sec before having to get back to the ground
Don't you know? It's a guy chugging invisibility potions, holding him up. But the poor sod has had to hold up the absolute unit that is vivec, for so long, by the time we get to him, guy has to pick him up, and put him down
Sotha Sil said it best: Vivec can't stick to a choice. This includes the choice of killing Nerevar, which is why Vivec thibks he's in love with Nerevar. An ocvasional bit of regret. This includes becoming a god, which is why he confesses his evil every once in a whole.
I have been requesting this video on Vivec for a long time and you guys finally delivered. Vivec is the most interesting character in all of Elder Scrolls.
I doubt Vivec is actually dead. He's probably just wandering around Tamriel doing magic tricks and saying profound statements to passersby. Also, I hope we get a backstory novel for Vivec one day.
I love this headcanon so much-- I feel that around his 'disappearance', he took the form of a normal dunmer, and slipped away somewhere, and was not truly dead.
Imo, in typical fashion, both are true. Vivec the god is dead, is killed, his divinity is ruptured and now decays. But there's an odd fella out there who once wore that divinity's skin... And as ye say, utters profound things on ears that de not listen. Vivec is dead, but Vivec also lives.
"He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."
Vivec is a dirty traitor who struck down the Nerevarine in the same way a thief would Rob and kill a man he befriended. Long live Azura and the Nerevarine Incarnate
@Frank A nerevar was his name. Nerevarine was his title which no one else proved they were worthy of the title for hundreds of years until nerevar was reborn and became the Nerevarine.
Also - I fall asleep watching these every night. The lore is awesome and y’all’s voices are great. Really helps me sleep - take that as you may, but I love your videos XD
I like how the "good guys" in morrowind are also the bad guys at the same time. It leaves you with a choice. Kill all the tribunal or leave them alone. The expansion doesnt give you a choice but leaves you with lingering thoughts. But with vivec you still have that choice.
Sotha Sil is my favourite character in the whole elder scrolls series.His knowledge and affiliation with the psijics are a few of the reasons that make him worthy of being considered one of the greatest characters in the series.
@@elwiseguy69 Ooh looking forward to that then! Recently started playing ESO after putting it off for ages as I didn't like the fact it was an MMO, but after doing some research and finding out that there's loads of soloable story content now and seeing it on sale I picked up the latest edition with a plus subscription for all the extra DLC's for about £20. Definitely glad I did, having a great time so far especially with the veriaty of area's due to damn near most of Tamriel being in the game by now. Plus the soloable side quests are much more involved than I thought they'd be, and characters sometimes even aknowledge if you've done a side quest for them if you run into them later during a main quest, which was a pleasant surprise as I didn't expect the side content to be so well fleshed out, especially for an MMO.
I love that unlike Vivec's ego, unlike Almalexia's denial of reality, Sotha Sil _does not give a shit_ about the colour of his skin, he just shrugs and doesn't use his God power to fix it like Almalexia or to show off like Vivec. Instead he does magictech science.
With all that taken in mind, could it be that Almalexia's madness was in fact her realisation that they must leave their mortal forms, and her actions a way of releasing Sotha Sil and herself from it?
I always understood her downfall as her failure to handle the Almsivi losing their power. She always struck me as the most arrogant of the trio. Vivec was maybe able to come to terms with it as a philosopher who probably saw it all coming, while Sotha Sil retreated further into his realm and his work. You can almost interpret each of their actions in the 3E as different ways mortals (because let's not forget they were only ever demigods) handle trauma or life challenges in general: Vivec faced up to it and accepted it in their own way, Sotha Sil tried to escape it, and Almalexia tried to fight it only to be consumed by Thanatos. You could well be right, or as another commenter pointed out, it could be a case of multiple simultaneous truths that may or may not be contradictory. It's the kind of open-ended complexity that makes MW, its story and world as compelling now as it was 20 years ago, in a way the later games aren't and will never be. Of course, TES as a whole is that way when it wants to be. It's just a shame we have to look to Kirkbride and non-canon in general to find that depth and nuance these days. I'm just ranting at this point so tl;dr: I agree.
@@WK-47 of the 3 i believe that one achieved Chim on their own (Vivek), one might have achieved Chim but needed help (Sotha Sil being unalived by Amelexia) he understood a lot and was extremely well learned, the last could never achieve Chim (Amelexia) who's fate it was to help Sotha Sil achieve Chim
I always thought that the Neravarine stripped them of their "Divinity" in every sense, so that when Almalexia and Sotha Sil were killed, they were mortal and truely dead. As for Vivec, i always kinda thoughy that the Neravarine would forgive his former friend, and left together.
I absolutely love TES and I actually wrote my bachelor's thesis on the Tribunal! This video is amazing and I always watch your lore discussions. Thanks for making these videos!
@@penguintaco9038 In Morrowind it's possible to trap both their souls in soul gems, and since they're VERY powerful and useful (or at the very least valuable) souls, quite a few people do. So in those timelines at least, yes.
The only one to have been killed for sure by the Nerevarine is Almalexia. I'm sure Azura would all but kiss you for trapping one of the Tribunal in her star. The irony alone would be epic.
Your builds and mod suggestions help this visually-challenged gamer keep one of the few games he can play with relative ease feel fresh and exciting, even after thousands of hours. Your recent return to this format once again fails to disappoint. Thank you so very much.
No, your game keeps crashing because (of course) a giant bug appeared. If anybody insists its because of something you did, stab them through the soul.
This is the first time I've EVER heard anyone try to explain this without using Dragon breaks. That was really cool and honestly sounds like it took a lot of work. Great job by the way!
In the Elder Scrolls 5, if you do the thieves guild quest line, nocturnal will say something like, "it has been years since I last set foot on your world, or maybe it has only been moments."
Leutin's ideas about the Warp have the same problem; it explains a lot, but is also visibly and evidently not how it actually acts. For all time appears to be somewhat malleable, the gods clearly and evidently work linearly both within and without Mundus. A good way to prove aetherius and oblivion operate linearly is Kodlak; if you go to Sovringard before freeing his soul, he won't be there, but if you go after he will be. This proves that Aetherius operates on the same timeline (roughly, actual flow may vary) as Mundus, otherwise you could enter Aetherius with Kodlak in it before he even died. In any given realm of Oblivion you can watch time pass and interact with gods and other Daedra that are experiencing time just the same as you. If the gods experience all of time simultaneously, too much about how they actually act doesn't work and very clearly doesn't line up with their actions.
@@notsae66 its possible time is only really guided by the elder scrolls providing a framework for reality and stuff in the middle of those events doesn't really matter as much or feels fast idk just my head canon.
I’d personally call the person who created the lore “Cannon”, more than the people who happen to own the domain afterwards, especially when the domain ownership can change, and in fact it has.
That is the right way of looking at lore. Otherwise we are letting commercial and legal interests decide whats cannon and that makes no sense especially from a creative standpoint.
This is just Morrowind elitist cope. Kirkbride wasn’t the only one writing the lore, and he was hired by Bethesda. It’s like saying the EU of Star Wars wasn’t canon because George Lucas didn’t write it. lol, and you people act like Kirkbride didn’t purposefully contradict his own writing in Oblivion. The mumbo jumbo of Morrowind is mostly fairy dust from the tribunal.
The ESO footage in the recent Fudgemuppet content really brings the race and regional content alive, especially in the areas otherwise not explored by TES 1-5
I'd have to say modded morrowind with tamriel rebuilt installed looks just as beautiful, if not more due to ESO not sticking to alot of the original lore. But fudgemuppet doesn't/won't play morrowind so it's understandable on their part.
@@wiibrockster morrowind is the only playthrough they don't have. I've heard them in playthroughs before when asked by people to play morrowind and it was like a flat out no. They said it's too dated for them to play, and I'd be willing to bet they got that footage from Camelworks. His favorite one in the series is Morrowind, so I'd bet they got it from him.
@@specialkidd560 I'm kind of in the same position. I've tried to play Morrowind multiple times and have never gotten on with it. I love the setting, the characters, lore etc. However I will shamelessly admit I am a fan of "handholding" in modern games such as quest markers and such as I don't find wandering around looking for people or quests to be immersive and it takes me out of the game due to being irritating. I love the Witcher 3 for this as there's detailed quest markers for everything even collectables which means I don't need to worry about searching around and can actually immerse myself in the scenary and world. Any tips on getting into Morrowind as I feel like I'm missing out as I love basically everything I've read about the game, except for the "game" part of it.
Scott this is an unbelievably beautiful lecture. I wonder how you prepared it. I like how it’s an exploration, not a defense of canon. What is the truth? The theme of usurping the throne of God is one that A Course in Miracles deals with. There is a reconciliation offered whereby you did the thing that you did, but the “you” that did it was a dream version of the self. The “You” that IS never separated from the Divine. This fascinating lecture series and references to the McBride fellow has my neurons firing. Thank you.
Watching this, I came to the realization that modders are people that have achieved CHIM, they are able to change things about the Elder Scrolls lore as necessary
Players using console commands and modders would be the equivalent of achieving chim, whereas the developers of the game/universe/setting itself are the amaranth. A modder persistent enough can eventually create their own existence aka game.
@@unreliablenarratorz2772 Yup. My interpretation (a fairly common one) is that Vivec attained CHIM under Red Mountain, gained access to the Construction Kit, and simply deleted the asset files for the Dwemer (but not Dwemer ghosts, constructs, or architecture). He even tells you to do the same, though I don't recall where.
@@toyguismailov4199 Yep! With a caveat: If you realise you can just cheat, and say "meh, the game is too easy, it's not worth playing", you zero-sum. If you start cheating and realise it's too easy, but carry on anyway, saying "Hahaha I AM TEH 4WESOMES!!!11", then you've achieved CHIM. Did I mention my views are controversial?
@KathrynElizabeth-uz8hi Morrowind was much more of a painful introduction. I Saw the box at eb gamestore, got super excited I had the system minimal requirements, went home and found out my comp set up siphoned off 8 mbs of ram (of the 128 mbs lol), and only had 120 available. Then there was the waiting game until x box. The game of the year edition was like a dream come true.
Fudge team, i know you guys wont read this but THANK you for your hard work to release this banger of a lore video. Ive been out of stuff to listen to while trying to write the swath of essays I have for online school. Keep up the great work.
Same! Now this was a fantastic video. Really makes we want to get into Morrowind. It is a huge reality check for how much more I have to go to improve my own world building, and yet inspirational at the same time. More dualities I suppose.
Can we take a second to appreciate Todd Howard? What Todd and bethesda has done might be the best world building I've ever seen. The world of Tamriel has so much depth and lore to it it's astonishing. They have their own cultures and the cultures have their own people, religion, and beliefs while staying almost entirely unique. They layed out thousands of years of history for Tamriel, Nirn, Oblivion, and Aethurius. It's just so incredibly overwhelming I cannot put it into words that are worthy of the world of The Elder Scrolls series. The way Todd Howard has done this is more than praise worthy. It's worship worthy. He might not be the best at making games but he has a seemingly supernatural ability to create enthralling universes to get yourself lost in with days worth of lore. Todd is a mastermind that doesn't deserve any hate. He needs respect. But he also needs fear. He knows he's too good at making worlds and if he went all out he would undoubtedly take over the entire video game industry. Perhaps even the entertainment industry if he decides to make a lore-friendly Elder Scrolls TV show. He could overtake Disney and Hollywood itself. This is nothing less than supernatural. To have this many ideas and this much creativity is god like. How Todd has managed to keep his reputation despite many controversies is simple. His looks. His smile. His hair. His aura. He looks like a God and should be treated as one. I personally have a picture of Todd Howard surrounded by dimly lit lavender scented candles so I might be able to feel him every night I slumber. Whenever I awake with tired and heavy eyes that want to me to drift back into sleep, I see Todds face and I have a reason to be awake. To worship Todd and nothing else. Sometimes when I am in a deep peaceful slumber I hear whispers of Todd. "Radiant sunshine and opportunities shall come your way if you accept me as your god" I of course accept. Whenever I try to tell of the radiant love of Todd I get laughed at. Laughed at by fools who don't believe in Todd. "River" Todd sensually whispers in my ear "With my power you can teach them my wisdom" I grab the nearest stick and it turns into a staff of flames. The wood doesn't burn but the false decievers do. They burn as they deserve. I have to teach Todds words to the unknowing or kill the stubborn who refuse to believe in Todd.
THIS COMMENT IS BEYOND UNDERRATED LMFAOOOO. I agree with some of it tho. Aside from his god complex I believe Todd Howard has the power to take over the industry with ease if he tried.
Even though this reads as a copy pasta, I'll put my two cents in anyways. Todd Howard was not a writer for the series. I'm sure he gave input to the writers, nut he didn't write the bulk of the lore. Many writers have worked for Bethesda over the years, but I'd say the most influential is Michael Kirkbride.
When you realize the entire universe is a dream in the Godhead, it changes a lot. Vivec was one of the very few to realize this using kagrenacs tools. That's what really gave him his powers. His realization of the dream. Its the reason the dwemer disappeared. They worshipped logic. Once they were completed their project, kagrenac used his tools during the battle of the red mountain. He used them in a panicked decision. Either way, it brought them face to face with the fact they are in the dream. They couldn't handle knowing that. They couldn't handle knowing they are actual individuals. They couldn't believe in their own existence. If you're in a dream and you realize it and wake up, what happens? They left the dream but they don't exist. Vivec was able to understand all that and also accept his place in the dream.
My question is about the Ruddy Man. How did Vivec fight him if the Ruddy man was ruling during the Dawn Era/Previous Kalpa? Like how was he around? Was he like Divayth Fyr where he was already around for 4500 years by the early First Era?
Things I've noticed about Vivec, TES, and Buddhism PART 1: -The shape of the world in the TES universe is that of a wheel with 8 spokes. In Buddhism, one of the main symbols (if not THE main symbol) is that of the Dharmachakra (or the "wheel of dharma"). Google it to see what I mean. -Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) had two specific chief disciples. One was his "right hand side chief disciple" named Śāriputra, the other was his "left hand side chief disciple" named Maudgalyāyana. Search those two names on wikipedia and look at the statues in the main picture on their respective pages. Then, look at Vivec's right-hand side and his left-hand side. Coincidence? -The Buddha was born into a life of decadence and luxury as a prince and later abandoned it all for a life of poverty and became a spiritual leader upon achieving enlightenment (or "nirvana"). Vivec grew up in a life of poverty and hardship and later rose up to become a literal god king (with the help of the Heart) upon achieving enlightenment (or "CHIM"). Is Vivec the anti-Buddha? -Terminology: The "Six Walking Ways" of Vivec's sermons and the "Noble Eightfold Path" in Buddhism. A path is a literal "walking way". Kirkbride's writings are filled with the use of synonymous terminology to obscure simpler concepts. Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk.
"If I commit murder, then use the power that I gained from that murder to rewrite history so that I was always an immortal bi-racial hermaphrodite god king that didn't murder my best friend, am I still culpable?"
My first impression of the whole "I did and didnt kill Nerevar" sounds like Vivec is just coping and making excuses for murdering a friend who cared for them. I think in ESO, there's a cool moment where Sotha Sil briefly talks about Nerevar and it seems like Sotha misses Nerevar or regrets doing something, cool little moment.
Whoa... I never knew about the "FOULMURDER" hidden in the 36th lesson. Oh man, that is awesome. I wonder how it was living MILLENIA with THAT on your conscience...
Incredibly insightful video. I thought I knew everything and that ultimately the story of Vivec was - while still complex - much more simple than it actually is. The amount of detail and dissection is very impressive, thank you!
I gotta say I'm fairly reserved with my 'like' ratings on YT, but these videos are so in depth and well produced that it's really hard to justify not doing so, I've had to hit the back button to get to a few of them, but you have many of my likes. Your lore is helping me through a difficult time right now and I really appreciate all the hard work and effort you have all done for us. Thank you.
As someone who like most started their journey on TES with Skyrim, it surprises me how narrow Skyrim's story is, considering how rich is TES's lore is in the big picture, I can totally see how true fans of the series felt a bit let down with the latest release, hopefully the next release touches more interesting bits of the lore and maybe explain a few mysteries? I'd love that! Anyways thank you for giving us so much lore content guys, keep it up!
This will be the one that makes me subscribe. Vivec is my favorite character in the elder scrolls universe and the source of many a joke I make about faking it till you make it and bullshitting your way into being the protagonist. This was a beautiful exploration of both the Canon resources we have as well as the interpretations of that information as it stands.
The lore in this universe is so ALIVE. It feels like real histories, real myths, and real people experiencing it. Well... I guess *we* all get to experience it, and we are real.
hi I haven't watched yet but since there are few comments rn I have hopes you'll see this I absolutely love your guys content whole heartedly I've liked every video and watched them all multiple multiple times your channel is the one I always look forward to seeing pop up in my feed
That... was actually pretty legit... The whole “‘asleep’ but conscious in a sort of timeless ‘beyond’/‘other world’” thing is highly reminiscent of the Lovecraft Mythos, particularly the ‘Dreamlands’ (duh). Very interesting. Well done. 👍
The way you jump between quoting books or npc's, explaining the meaning of those things from the perspective of someone who belives in and is subject to the lore, and then drawing from out of game knowledge is giving me meta whiplash and it is very fitting for this particular topic
Keep up the good work guys. U took my favourite games and made them even better. My appreciation for the elder scrolls universe and it’s complexity is largely down to u guys 👍
Glad to see this pop up into my recommends - a very solid video. May I suggest writing the quotes on screen when using them? At times, the flow between reading these quotes and extrapolating on them is quick and can be difficult to discern when the transition was meant to begin. Plus, I believe it would add more visual impact, as well as allow the viewer to pause and digest the quote at their leisure.
only other character I'm so fascinated by like in some of morrowinds (tribunal, yagrun bagarm, divayeth fyr, nerevarine himself etc.) in later games is basically only sheogorath
Wow that was a really intelligent video! I really appreciate all the thought and work you guys put into this. Seriously was a long video too it must've been a lot of work 😂😂
33:15 the way you describe Vivec talking about what being a god is like, specifically how they go to the “god place” and see all time at once reminds me of the movie Arrival, where the alien’s language doesn’t have a concept of time , they perceive all events happening simultaneously. And (spoiler alert) the main linguist communicating with the aliens experiences this as the movie progresses, since there’s a theory in linguistics that the language you speak alters how you perceive your reality (you can see this most concretely in the ability of people of certain cultures to distinguish different colors). The director uses the structure of the film itself (ie editing different clips together) to show the audience how the main character is experiencing this shift in her reality
Nazeem He is both the cloud district and the plains district. Both heaven and earth. Night and day. The same and different. You Nazeem, are just a terrible farmer who thinks he is good with the jarl. Begone back to your little farm peasant!!!
What a beautiful retelling of Vivec's story. It's clear you love this character as much as many of us. And, you gave an eloquent account of his life. Thank you! 💖
Been a fan of you guys ever since the dark crusader build all those years ago. Keep up the great work and thank you for giving me love for a game franchise that at the time went under my radar
I kinda think, we like Vivec cause he is a little, like us, not us the nerevarine, us the players, when we play a game we both do and don't do atrocities thanks to Save reload, that's probably what makes Vivec so relatable, when he says "I both did it and did not do it" it's like "I Quicksaved, did it, loaded the last save file, and didn't do it this time".
Daaamn... I was playing Morrowind in 02-03 when i was 13-14 and I certainly didn't acknowledge all this historical, mythical and philosophical stuff but I felt that this game and this world is very huge in all means and very awesome.
Super happy I found your channel yesterday - been binging it and both - learning awesome knowledge, and the nostalgia for early mornings in my childhood, playing Morrowind with starry eyes - feel super great.
I was lucky to read a plenty of Indian mythology and Buddhist text when I started playing the game so reading the sermons was like heeeeey i know this kind of literature :D
More so shows that both Tiber Septim and Vivec understood that problems can be solved by diplomacy instead of throwing armies at each other. Probably just god stuff.
This channel is one of my faves. The two people who got me into Skyrim were not as into it as I got. I was the only one who read the in-game books. Then again, I was the only one who stripped the dead and sold their stuff as well haha
Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination. Viveka is considered as first requirement for the spiritual journey. Advaita Vedanta Darshana interprets viveka as discrimination between the real and the unreal while Visistadvaita Vedanta Darshana interprets viveka as discrimination of food. According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as a sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever-present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.
I don't know, if Vivek is equal to vivec in any form except how same they are pronounced. Vivek is more on the spectrum of thinking and logic power than spiritual mumbo jumbo. Vivek is what makes human( manushya: descendants of lord manu) different from other beings.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Driven mad by his newfound cosmic power, Lord Vivec spent the next 3 --centuries-- millennia trying to decide whether he wanted to levitate in the lotus position or stand normally. This struggle went on until his final day.
Edit: muh boy is old
“Man, I’ve been floating too long, legs are stiff.”
“Man, I’ve been standing too long, legs are tired.”
Vivec’s life for the last 3 millennia.
xD
I‘m thinking that EVERY SINGLE TIME I see him hahaha
And King Monkey realised, finally, the goal of the pilgrimage was not at its end, but in the journey itself.
I think you meant 3 millennia
“The most complex character”.
That certainly explains the layout of Vivec City. Started playing Morrowind back in ‘02 and I still get lost in that madhouse.
TheRealPDizzle played mirrowind for the first time in 2017.. mind you after playing Skyrim and fallout 4 so the city of Vivek took me more than a week of real world time do 2 quests there
Always was confusing. Funny thing is this channel hasn't even played Morrowind before lol
Specialkidd 5 I’m pretty sure they have
@@specialkidd560 They haven't done a lets play* FTFY
@Kristopher Prime the layout is one of those things where you don't get it until you've played it long enough. The most troubling part is the fact that each Canton has 3 levels but once you get that down it comes natural after awhile
Almalexia: I shall spread love and prosperity across Morrowind
Sotha Sil: I shall learn all I can about The Aurbis and beyond
Vivec: Time to get freaky!!!!!
Do not look into Rule 34 of Vivec.
I mean, unless you want to.
AncientSlugThrower Like Sseth said he killed nerevar with his giant penis sword.
@@kikhiithekhajiit8770 Thought it was a spear... or maybe that was Molag Bal.
AncientSlugThrower I know it’s a spear but metaphorically he said you’ll know to give a little bit of commedy in contex.
AncientSlugThrower Stop you violate the law Pat the court a fine or serve your sentece all your stolen goods are fortfeit
If you really think about it; The 36 lessons of Vivec are basically Vivec's self insert fanfiction that his people treat as religious literature.
It is a very interesting read. It's well-written, but confusing at times, but that's how it is supposed to be
@@180treehousegang8 True,true. Even after years of lore research and thousands of hours of playtime across Morrowind,Oblivion,Skyrim and ESO,The 36 lessons are still confusing in some aspects. I personally think there is some truth to them yet heavily embellished by Vivec himself. He's literally called "The warrior-poet"
The point of Vivec's Sermons isn't to be fan faction. The point of Vivec's sermons are to illustrate that Vivec is someone capable both physically and ethically of making their "fanfiction" reality, through CHIM. Anyone can write propaganda, it takes true ego to force reality to reflect your propaganda.
@@wiibrockster The thing about Vivec's Sermons is that they ARE true, even if they once would have been false. But they are also false. But they are also metaphors. Vivec exploited Dragon Breaks on a level beyond any other character in the series, maybe even Talos.
@@vivecthepoet36 They are true yet not true at the same time
Vivec in character creation: “I want it all Todd, I want it all”
And I want it now.
"And I want it hard😩"
And tomorrow. And yesterday.
"Vivec wants to be all things at all times,every race, every gender and every hero, both infinite and finite but in the end Vivec can only ever be Vivec" Sotha Sil 2nd era 582
"He carried much honor and the dremora were impressed" moments later, Vivec picked a fight with a child.
That's Vivec!
Got to teach them toddlers early.
Don’t forget the time the Hermaphrodite God ripped the penis off the Rape God and fashioned it into a Spear.
Spare the Muatra, spoil the child
@@rekaadang Considering Muatra is a metaphorical dick spear, that proverb becomes extremely disturbing
Vivec: You be on tomorrow?
Nerevar: Yea
*last online 3000 years ago*
This is so sad. Alexa, play Minecraft creeper rap.
4000 years later :
Nerevar back online
@@Fastwalker27 Vivec: UH-OH, oh well it probably won't be that bad. *dagoth ur appears* oh God dammit
Inwa!!!
My n’wahh!!
Characters like Vivec are why I love Morrowind so much. The amount of depth and mystique in the lore has been unmatched since. Morrowind really made you think about the gray areas and felt more like you were learning about a culture rather than playing a simple game.
Yes especially with the ashlanders
Tbh I liked how the civil war handled gray areas, especially through things like Ulfrics dossie, it made it hard for me to choose as someone wanting the best for the province. Even if the quest is lackluster
Both Dunmer and Argonians hold a mysterious aura of sorts about them. Also both have a living God well only the Argonians do now lol.
ES has tons of great lore but all of the characters since Morrowind just seem to be really flat
@Seaworth lul no. ever met a small child?
"He was not born a god"
The Tribunal Temple would like to know your location.
Well, he kinda was born a god... and yet was not. By denying his mortal nature as a part of his godhood it is YOU who should be investigated by the Ordinators.
@@Sioolol We have a Tribunal Temple sympathizer, I see.
@@Sioolol He betrayed the nevarine and killed the guardian of the heart of lorkhan to seize its power.
@@johnnysilverhand626 Ashlander propaganda
@@Sioolol He confessed it himself in his sermons that you seem to worship. Your exchanging of the good daedra for the worship of a false god is heresy. en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_36_Lessons_of_Vivec
This is the charm of the ES lore: that many things are not straightforward or certain and that there are different interpretations and perspectives. It makes it more real and at the same time more mysterious/interesting!
people who don't understand the lore calling it shit and useless in-game because it's not shoved into their face
@@m.thorton9305 I don't see how anybody can think that. The lore is fascinating from the basics such as the various races and provinces all the way to the metaphysical stuff such as CHIM,Dragonbreaks and the Godhead.
@@wiibrockster the type of people that just play skyrim to mod and destroy everything 😂
Or you're just defending inconsistent and sometimes contradictory writing between different games.
@@daedra1386 I've met people like that yet at the same time; I have met people who started with Skyrim and went back to play Morrowind and Oblivion. I like it when they do it and enjoy playing them despite the often outdated graphics and mechanics.
I love the lore you guys put out, my sister is getting back into Skyrim with everything going on. She heard me listening to this and started asking questions, not realizing the bigger world beyond the adventure of her Dragonborn. We just spent the last 3 hours talking about all the lore and history. Thank you guys so much for helping that happen!
Harry why you gotta be weird like that dude
@@HarryG98 Ahh, spoken like a true only child. Those of us with siblings are cringing so hard inside like "Oh noooo brooo..."
@@HarryG98 *BANJOS INTENSIFY*
@@HarryG98 probably not but he could have mindfucked her by explaining how CHIM works and the 0 and 1 binary of the ES universe with Lorkhan traversing the "wheel's" (hence the O or 0) edge and looking on it from beyond seeing the "I" (hence the 1).
@@HarryG98 You must've been watching those "what are you doing... stepbro?" videos waaaaaay too much.
"Let's take a moment to talk about Vivecs benevolent side"
*brings up the fact that he wasn't holding back the boulder out of saving them but as a failsafe in case they lost faith they all got wiped with him*
The pettiness of the tribunal knows no bounds lmfaoooo
Exactly, glory to the goddess of the Dawn and her champion the Nerevarine.
It wasn't really a failsafe, just kind of a gun to the head for the people of morrowind, they had to keep faith in him or he'd loose power and the rock would fall and kill everyone (as it eventually did). Still incredibly petty since he could've just put it down somewhere
@@insertnamehere1983 nevertheless my point still stands he could've put that shit down somewhere safely 😂
@@killbossabullroarer7840 Neither of whom did anything to save Morrowind from the meteor or the Argonian invasion. Screw Azura, what did she expect from the Tribunal anyway? They worshiped Boethiah and Mephala so of course they backstabbed Nerevar.
@@morehero1 had the Tribunal never betrayed Azura she woulda shoved that meteor up sheogoraths ass.
Vicec was truly a great character that suffered from pride and power but was easy to like in Morrowind.
To each their own, I disliked him quite a bit, and was more than happy to kill all 3 of the fake gods when I got the shield and dagger.
ESO showed him at a vulnerable state, yet also had a dizzying display of godly power.
@@2yoyoyo1Unplugged He was the best of the False Tribunal. Absolute lad.
I kinda look at him as the true definition of the phrase 'absolute power corrupts absolutely'
@@JamesJJSMilton *Sotha Sil will remember that*
Oh my god.
We players experience the in between state of.godhood everytime we save a game. Leave for years.
Load up that save, and no time has passed at all.
Thats why we're lilely shor in skyrim...
Why we can save our game
r/I'm14andthisisdeep
The "godhood" of the player is also extended when you think of the "godhead being" the being to whom all of that world is a dream, & the inhabitants can escape by dreaming their own world, the all powerful being is more likely then not Todd Howard or some other es writer, this world being his dream, & the escape is players who are inspired to create new worlds, to realize that we can make our dreams a reality (even if only a virtual one)
dumbass
@@rokturi im sorry. Did someone piss in your cereal?
Vivec holding the Rock over the Dunmer is the ultimate display of a toxic relationship.
The fact that Vivec modified the Red moment after becoming a god shows something moving about him. Vivec doesn't hide his dark side,he boasts about his great and sinister deeds. But he always denies killing Nerevar, he admits it in a cryptic way in the 36 lessons and even modifies the Red moment. All of this make me think that Vivec regrets the murder of Nerevar. Even in his version of the Red moment Nerevar is a hero till the end and after becoming gods ALMSIVI made Nerevar a Saint. I think Vivec more than any other member of the tribunal really loved Nerevar. But the Hortator had to die so that ALMSIVI could be born.
I conclude all this by saying that that video is really fantastic you really know this complex character and this complex universe.
Such Tolkinesque writing has gone into the Elderscrolls mythology.
Truly, this is what Bethesda needs for it's upcoming Elderscrolls game:
No more dumbing down, no more corporate greed, but a distilled comprehensible world with a bottomless depth of culture and history.
Amazing work, Scott/FudgeMuppet. I still rekt Vivec way back then.
Not Tolkien, most of Vivecs lore was written by a drunk or high Kirkbride
Also more rpg mechanics. I want to be able to play as a character and have options that affect the world around me. Not go through quests on rails with maybe 1 or 2 decisions along the way.
@@adamyooz Like:
NPC: Fetch me some milk.
You: I defeated the (insert main evil/villain)?!
NPC: And be quick about it!
Bethesda could learn allot from Horizon 0 Dawn, The Witcher, Cyberpunk 2077, etc, etc, etc.
I mean... It wasn't exactly dumbed down.
Don't get me wrong, Skyrim's main story as you play it is pretty trash, but the lore is still there. Alduin being this dragon god that is destined to "eat the world" and start it anew is basically right up this alley, and there's plenty of other little pieces of this sort of stuff throughout the game.
It's just... As I said, the dialogue and quests themselves are the clunky part.
@@adamyooz I agree... Obviously a game where every quest can have some huge impact on the world would be a bit hard to actually bring to fruition, and while I understand hardcore fans dislike essential NPC's... I think in a ton of cases they make sense, since they stop quests just completely breaking on people, or having the responsibilitys of a Jarl for example suddenly be filled in by a beggar to take their place, which would be pretty whack.
Honestly I'd be pretty happy for something simple like an option to join the "bad guy" of whatever quest you're doing, (think silver-hand, the option to join the thieves guild) but I don't think it needs to go too deep, I still very much enjoyed how fun the world was to merely live in in Skyrim, and having the game tailored to a survival mode would be pretty great as well, y'know, not just adding in basic hunger mechanics or making it so all you can wear is fucking fur armour, like maybe add cloaks and stuff...
... At the very least though... For the love of gods, don't preset my backstory, that'd be great at the least lmao
I always assumed the androgyny was a physical alteration of his body after achieving divinity, but either way Vivec is more or less an acid trip of a character
Kind of funny how Vivec is 'awake' while on nirn, which is a dream. But he is asleep outside of nirn, when he actually should be awake.
But that makes the most sense lol their consciousness is tied to the land that raised them into godhood
They don't exist
They are fake as hell
If you acknowledge this fact while being a mortal
You just erase yourself
But if you give yourself copium
You become God in that fake ass universes
Unless..............
@@hanzohattori6716This guy gets it
I am kind of impressed by the holding the rock in place thing . . . It has so many nuances, it is realy intriguing while borderline sociopathic
Real Talk: it was a game, he was supposed to throw it back
@@TheRealVorynDagoth you know what, this actually makes sense to me. Sheogorath would totally do that.
Vivec and Kirkbride’s writing in general is my favorite part of the Elder Scrolls. So full of deep lore and mind bending concepts.
Let me see if I understand:
Vivec and Vec are both the same and different beings. The Dragon Break or Paradox is very similar to Time Travel but through the power and perspective of gods. The Aedra and Daedra see all events and possible outcomes all at once while the Tribunal does too but also experiences the linear reality that most mortals see. So technically the tribunal experiences the multiverse at the same time they experience the reality we and all the rest of the mortals experience. Very interesting and Puzzling.
If I simplified it:
The gods, including the tribunal, experience the multiverse all at once while us gamers experience a singular reality that has many contradictions because it mingles with other realities during dragon breaks/paradoxes. These dragon breaks/paradoxes aren’t seen from the same perspective as gods because the gods already see these contradictions due to their ability to see the multiverse. The tribunal technically exists outside and inside time kind of like The Elder Scrolls. If we take this knowledge and understanding then we can apply this to Skyrim’s Main Questline where The Dragonborn goes back in time to learn the dragonrend shout. Technically the Dragonborn is watching the event on the throat of the world from outside of time due to The Elder Scroll which is a piece of the universe and also is outside of the universe. It’s so confusing but also makes some sort of sense. One more thing, technically the multiverse points to the fact that the gods have multiple versions of themselves too but in the case of The Elder Scrolls franchise the gods all exist outside of time but can interact and physically appear with the multiverse realities. Specifically the reality that we all experience during the games. So anything can and can’t happen during a singular reality due to the Dragon Breaks/Paradoxes
This was so damn interesting I paused the video
CHIM is the equivalent of using console commands but also roleplaying.
As long as the opportunity arrises it can never happen, and always will.
@Vivec the Poet so anyone that uses the cheat room mod, is technically granting the Dragonborn CHIM, despite the fact that they didn't do anything to achieve it.
I guess maybe we should have played as Talos, Vivec, and whatever other character reaches CHIM, rather than the characters that we've played as so far.
Bro is a professional yapper
"The Elder Scrolls is a universe full of Myth Legend and Fact"
Fudge Muppet is a strange chimera of a Muppet and Fudge. That covers Skyrim Videos with Scott and Drew
Did I forget Michael?
Benjamin Tran yes
I can never tell them apart.
A strange blend of Aussie that brings in depths looks at TES
@@typoanonymous same, at first it seemed as if there was only one guy, at least for me
The failure of Vivec by establishing the Tribunal is opposed by the success of Tiber Septim in becoming Talos, the God of Self-Determination, who provides strength to persevere rather than comfort.
Interesting writing TBH considering MK’s own personal demons.
Vivec: So powerful that he can stop a rock on the sky and keep it there for years
Also Vivec: Can levitatly sit for 2 sec before having to get back to the ground
Poor guy is getting leg craps
He hasn't diecided yet
Can’t decide which is more comfy 💔💔
Don't you know? It's a guy chugging invisibility potions, holding him up. But the poor sod has had to hold up the absolute unit that is vivec, for so long, by the time we get to him, guy has to pick him up, and put him down
Sotha Sil said it best: Vivec can't stick to a choice.
This includes the choice of killing Nerevar, which is why Vivec thibks he's in love with Nerevar. An ocvasional bit of regret.
This includes becoming a god, which is why he confesses his evil every once in a whole.
I have been requesting this video on Vivec for a long time and you guys finally delivered. Vivec is the most interesting character in all of Elder Scrolls.
I doubt Vivec is actually dead. He's probably just wandering around Tamriel doing magic tricks and saying profound statements to passersby. Also, I hope we get a backstory novel for Vivec one day.
When you put it like this, I can think of only one person. Myeek the liar
I love this headcanon so much-- I feel that around his 'disappearance', he took the form of a normal dunmer, and slipped away somewhere, and was not truly dead.
Imo, in typical fashion, both are true.
Vivec the god is dead, is killed, his divinity is ruptured and now decays. But there's an odd fella out there who once wore that divinity's skin... And as ye say, utters profound things on ears that de not listen.
Vivec is dead, but Vivec also lives.
@@morphman30 Maiq is present in 2nd Era, while Vivec is still a god, still nice thought.
@@Valor1610that was Maiq’s father’s father
"He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."
Vivec is a dirty traitor who struck down the Nerevarine in the same way a thief would Rob and kill a man he befriended. Long live Azura and the Nerevarine Incarnate
@Frank A nerevar was his name. Nerevarine was his title which no one else proved they were worthy of the title for hundreds of years until nerevar was reborn and became the Nerevarine.
you forgot the best part.
"vivec wrote this"
Also - I fall asleep watching these every night. The lore is awesome and y’all’s voices are great. Really helps me sleep - take that as you may, but I love your videos XD
Same, I put lore videos next to me and I get knocked out before it ends
Yeah same
When I wake up, I see that my phone played over 60 videos. I'm sure they are pleased!
Same! I do that too
Me too!!
I like how the "good guys" in morrowind are also the bad guys at the same time. It leaves you with a choice. Kill all the tribunal or leave them alone. The expansion doesnt give you a choice but leaves you with lingering thoughts. But with vivec you still have that choice.
Sotha Sil is my favourite character in the whole elder scrolls series.His knowledge and affiliation with the psijics are a few of the reasons that make him worthy of being considered one of the greatest characters in the series.
The clockwork dlc in ESO blew me away. I didn’t realize how badass Sotha Sil is until that experience.
@@elwiseguy69 Yup, also Sotha Sil regretted killing Nerevar the most which is pretty sick.
@@elwiseguy69 Ooh looking forward to that then! Recently started playing ESO after putting it off for ages as I didn't like the fact it was an MMO, but after doing some research and finding out that there's loads of soloable story content now and seeing it on sale I picked up the latest edition with a plus subscription for all the extra DLC's for about £20. Definitely glad I did, having a great time so far especially with the veriaty of area's due to damn near most of Tamriel being in the game by now. Plus the soloable side quests are much more involved than I thought they'd be, and characters sometimes even aknowledge if you've done a side quest for them if you run into them later during a main quest, which was a pleasant surprise as I didn't expect the side content to be so well fleshed out, especially for an MMO.
I love that unlike Vivec's ego, unlike Almalexia's denial of reality, Sotha Sil _does not give a shit_ about the colour of his skin, he just shrugs and doesn't use his God power to fix it like Almalexia or to show off like Vivec.
Instead he does magictech science.
With all that taken in mind, could it be that Almalexia's madness was in fact her realisation that they must leave their mortal forms, and her actions a way of releasing Sotha Sil and herself from it?
I like this line of thinking; reminds me of an old Marvel storyline revolving around Hercules. Trippy stuff.
Might’ve been both.
I always understood her downfall as her failure to handle the Almsivi losing their power. She always struck me as the most arrogant of the trio. Vivec was maybe able to come to terms with it as a philosopher who probably saw it all coming, while Sotha Sil retreated further into his realm and his work.
You can almost interpret each of their actions in the 3E as different ways mortals (because let's not forget they were only ever demigods) handle trauma or life challenges in general: Vivec faced up to it and accepted it in their own way, Sotha Sil tried to escape it, and Almalexia tried to fight it only to be consumed by Thanatos.
You could well be right, or as another commenter pointed out, it could be a case of multiple simultaneous truths that may or may not be contradictory. It's the kind of open-ended complexity that makes MW, its story and world as compelling now as it was 20 years ago, in a way the later games aren't and will never be. Of course, TES as a whole is that way when it wants to be. It's just a shame we have to look to Kirkbride and non-canon in general to find that depth and nuance these days.
I'm just ranting at this point so tl;dr: I agree.
@@WK-47 of the 3 i believe that one achieved Chim on their own (Vivek), one might have achieved Chim but needed help (Sotha Sil being unalived by Amelexia) he understood a lot and was extremely well learned, the last could never achieve Chim (Amelexia) who's fate it was to help Sotha Sil achieve Chim
I always thought that the Neravarine stripped them of their "Divinity" in every sense, so that when Almalexia and Sotha Sil were killed, they were mortal and truely dead. As for Vivec, i always kinda thoughy that the Neravarine would forgive his former friend, and left together.
How much skooma was kirkbride on when is wrote the lessons of vivec
Not skooma, just strange mushrooms.
@Mad Hatress Souffle bottles I bet you nwahs don't even smoke skooms
all of it.
All Skooma in existence, ALL of it
Enough to make him ascend for about 45minutes.
I absolutely love TES and I actually wrote my bachelor's thesis on the Tribunal! This video is amazing and I always watch your lore discussions. Thanks for making these videos!
Dude, that sounds dope. Any chance we can get a look at that thesis somewhere?
where can be found your thesis?
What was the main argument of your thesis?
Tell us about it and what your professor said
@@elwiseguy69 I'd love to make it available but currently it's still in evaluation which will take some time thanks to corona
All of this talk about Vivec's god form dying after he dies in the physical realm reminds me of Dagoth Urs "How do you kill a god" speech.
Vivec suffers perhaps the worst fate of anyone in the series: an eternity in the soul cairn with Almalexia.
You don’t think getting sent to the Soul Cairn might have knocked her down a few pegs?
They go to Soul Cairn?
@@penguintaco9038 I don't believe that's ever been said. Vivec is just said to have disappeared. No proof he's dead.
@@penguintaco9038 In Morrowind it's possible to trap both their souls in soul gems, and since they're VERY powerful and useful (or at the very least valuable) souls, quite a few people do. So in those timelines at least, yes.
The only one to have been killed for sure by the Nerevarine is Almalexia. I'm sure Azura would all but kiss you for trapping one of the Tribunal in her star. The irony alone would be epic.
Your builds and mod suggestions help this visually-challenged gamer keep one of the few games he can play with relative ease feel fresh and exciting, even after thousands of hours. Your recent return to this format once again fails to disappoint. Thank you so very much.
So are the dragon breaks and simultaneous contradictory truths the reason my game keeps crashing?
No, your game keeps crashing because (of course) a giant bug appeared. If anybody insists its because of something you did, stab them through the soul.
Yes
This is the first time I've EVER heard anyone try to explain this without using Dragon breaks. That was really cool and honestly sounds like it took a lot of work. Great job by the way!
In the Elder Scrolls 5, if you do the thieves guild quest line, nocturnal will say something like, "it has been years since I last set foot on your world, or maybe it has only been moments."
As was I.
Leutin's ideas about the Warp have the same problem; it explains a lot, but is also visibly and evidently not how it actually acts. For all time appears to be somewhat malleable, the gods clearly and evidently work linearly both within and without Mundus. A good way to prove aetherius and oblivion operate linearly is Kodlak; if you go to Sovringard before freeing his soul, he won't be there, but if you go after he will be. This proves that Aetherius operates on the same timeline (roughly, actual flow may vary) as Mundus, otherwise you could enter Aetherius with Kodlak in it before he even died. In any given realm of Oblivion you can watch time pass and interact with gods and other Daedra that are experiencing time just the same as you. If the gods experience all of time simultaneously, too much about how they actually act doesn't work and very clearly doesn't line up with their actions.
@@notsae66 its possible time is only really guided by the elder scrolls providing a framework for reality and stuff in the middle of those events doesn't really matter as much or feels fast idk just my head canon.
@@notsae66 there is only one God and it is called Math.
@@smocloud math is just a way to measure things and convey them in a way to convey that information. Whatever math is measuring is god for sure.
I’d personally call the person who created the lore “Cannon”, more than the people who happen to own the domain afterwards, especially when the domain ownership can change, and in fact it has.
True. The owner of the domain can change, but the owner of the idea of the creation can't.
George Lucas agrees with this
facts
That is the right way of looking at lore. Otherwise we are letting commercial and legal interests decide whats cannon and that makes no sense especially from a creative standpoint.
This is just Morrowind elitist cope. Kirkbride wasn’t the only one writing the lore, and he was hired by Bethesda. It’s like saying the EU of Star Wars wasn’t canon because George Lucas didn’t write it. lol, and you people act like Kirkbride didn’t purposefully contradict his own writing in Oblivion. The mumbo jumbo of Morrowind is mostly fairy dust from the tribunal.
The ESO footage in the recent Fudgemuppet content really brings the race and regional content alive, especially in the areas otherwise not explored by TES 1-5
I'd have to say modded morrowind with tamriel rebuilt installed looks just as beautiful, if not more due to ESO not sticking to alot of the original lore. But fudgemuppet doesn't/won't play morrowind so it's understandable on their part.
@@specialkidd560 There's Morrowind footage in the video, though...? Heavily modded, by the looks of it too!
@@specialkidd560 I'm sure they've played Morrowind. I think they mentioned starting with Oblivion and going back to play Morrowind.
@@wiibrockster morrowind is the only playthrough they don't have. I've heard them in playthroughs before when asked by people to play morrowind and it was like a flat out no. They said it's too dated for them to play, and I'd be willing to bet they got that footage from Camelworks. His favorite one in the series is Morrowind, so I'd bet they got it from him.
@@specialkidd560 I'm kind of in the same position. I've tried to play Morrowind multiple times and have never gotten on with it. I love the setting, the characters, lore etc. However I will shamelessly admit I am a fan of "handholding" in modern games such as quest markers and such as I don't find wandering around looking for people or quests to be immersive and it takes me out of the game due to being irritating. I love the Witcher 3 for this as there's detailed quest markers for everything even collectables which means I don't need to worry about searching around and can actually immerse myself in the scenary and world. Any tips on getting into Morrowind as I feel like I'm missing out as I love basically everything I've read about the game, except for the "game" part of it.
CHIM, making you powerful enough to retcon all of reality, even your own personal history. Really wish I could do that 😂
you can something similar is possible
Since talos also has chim it does not work like that.
and after the events of morrowind
Talos is stronger than vivec
Same a waitress once told me to enjoy my meal and I said "you too" god I wish I could retcon reality
yeah it's called omnipotence
Scott this is an unbelievably beautiful lecture. I wonder how you prepared it. I like how it’s an exploration, not a defense of canon. What is the truth? The theme of usurping the throne of God is one that A Course in Miracles deals with. There is a reconciliation offered whereby you did the thing that you did, but the “you” that did it was a dream version of the self. The “You” that IS never separated from the Divine. This fascinating lecture series and references to the McBride fellow has my neurons firing. Thank you.
Watching this, I came to the realization that modders are people that have achieved CHIM, they are able to change things about the Elder Scrolls lore as necessary
Or just anyone with acess to console commands...
Players using console commands and modders would be the equivalent of achieving chim, whereas the developers of the game/universe/setting itself are the amaranth. A modder persistent enough can eventually create their own existence aka game.
@@unreliablenarratorz2772 Yup. My interpretation (a fairly common one) is that Vivec attained CHIM under Red Mountain, gained access to the Construction Kit, and simply deleted the asset files for the Dwemer (but not Dwemer ghosts, constructs, or architecture). He even tells you to do the same, though I don't recall where.
@@cosmogoblin So i can cheat in TESO and say that i just achieved CHIM
@@toyguismailov4199 Yep! With a caveat:
If you realise you can just cheat, and say "meh, the game is too easy, it's not worth playing", you zero-sum.
If you start cheating and realise it's too easy, but carry on anyway, saying "Hahaha I AM TEH 4WESOMES!!!11", then you've achieved CHIM.
Did I mention my views are controversial?
So basically, vivec is a fallout new Vegas character that maxed out their speech and small guns skills. Nice
I remember literally hunting for hours to find those books. Morrowind was the first real immersive game I’ve ever played.
@KathrynElizabeth-uz8hi Morrowind was much more of a painful introduction. I Saw the box at eb gamestore, got super excited I had the system minimal requirements, went home and found out my comp set up siphoned off 8 mbs of ram (of the 128 mbs lol), and only had 120 available. Then there was the waiting game until x box. The game of the year edition was like a dream come true.
This video was amazing, and truly enlightening. I love the philosophical concepts and the discussions on divinity had here.
Fudge team, i know you guys wont read this but THANK you for your hard work to release this banger of a lore video. Ive been out of stuff to listen to while trying to write the swath of essays I have for online school. Keep up the great work.
Thanks! We really appreciate it and are glad you enjoy them
Same! Now this was a fantastic video. Really makes we want to get into Morrowind. It is a huge reality check for how much more I have to go to improve my own world building, and yet inspirational at the same time. More dualities I suppose.
I've written a fanfic- ehm sorry, i meant Apocrypha, about a Vivec-Nerevar-Dagoth Ur threesome, and by TES lore rules that story is now Canon.
Can we take a second to appreciate Todd Howard?
What Todd and bethesda has done might be the best world building I've ever seen. The world of Tamriel has so much depth and lore to it it's astonishing. They have their own cultures and the cultures have their own people, religion, and beliefs while staying almost entirely unique. They layed out thousands of years of history for Tamriel, Nirn, Oblivion, and Aethurius. It's just so incredibly overwhelming I cannot put it into words that are worthy of the world of The Elder Scrolls series. The way Todd Howard has done this is more than praise worthy. It's worship worthy. He might not be the best at making games but he has a seemingly supernatural ability to create enthralling universes to get yourself lost in with days worth of lore. Todd is a mastermind that doesn't deserve any hate. He needs respect. But he also needs fear. He knows he's too good at making worlds and if he went all out he would undoubtedly take over the entire video game industry. Perhaps even the entertainment industry if he decides to make a lore-friendly Elder Scrolls TV show. He could overtake Disney and Hollywood itself. This is nothing less than supernatural. To have this many ideas and this much creativity is god like. How Todd has managed to keep his reputation despite many controversies is simple. His looks. His smile. His hair. His aura. He looks like a God and should be treated as one. I personally have a picture of Todd Howard surrounded by dimly lit lavender scented candles so I might be able to feel him every night I slumber. Whenever I awake with tired and heavy eyes that want to me to drift back into sleep, I see Todds face and I have a reason to be awake. To worship Todd and nothing else. Sometimes when I am in a deep peaceful slumber I hear whispers of Todd. "Radiant sunshine and opportunities shall come your way if you accept me as your god"
I of course accept.
Whenever I try to tell of the radiant love of Todd I get laughed at. Laughed at by fools who don't believe in Todd.
"River" Todd sensually whispers in my ear "With my power you can teach them my wisdom"
I grab the nearest stick and it turns into a staff of flames. The wood doesn't burn but the false decievers do. They burn as they deserve. I have to teach Todds words to the unknowing or kill the stubborn who refuse to believe in Todd.
THIS COMMENT IS BEYOND UNDERRATED LMFAOOOO. I agree with some of it tho. Aside from his god complex I believe Todd Howard has the power to take over the industry with ease if he tried.
I laughed. Thanks, I needed it :D.
NO LOOK HOW HE MASSACRED MY BOY (FALLOUT)
Even though this reads as a copy pasta, I'll put my two cents in anyways. Todd Howard was not a writer for the series. I'm sure he gave input to the writers, nut he didn't write the bulk of the lore. Many writers have worked for Bethesda over the years, but I'd say the most influential is Michael Kirkbride.
@Isaac Fullerton
I wrote this myself
Got here in the Dawn era I’m so early.
When you realize the entire universe is a dream in the Godhead, it changes a lot. Vivec was one of the very few to realize this using kagrenacs tools. That's what really gave him his powers. His realization of the dream. Its the reason the dwemer disappeared. They worshipped logic. Once they were completed their project, kagrenac used his tools during the battle of the red mountain. He used them in a panicked decision. Either way, it brought them face to face with the fact they are in the dream. They couldn't handle knowing that. They couldn't handle knowing they are actual individuals. They couldn't believe in their own existence. If you're in a dream and you realize it and wake up, what happens? They left the dream but they don't exist. Vivec was able to understand all that and also accept his place in the dream.
My question is about the Ruddy Man. How did Vivec fight him if the Ruddy man was ruling during the Dawn Era/Previous Kalpa? Like how was he around? Was he like Divayth Fyr where he was already around for 4500 years by the early First Era?
The Ruddy Man that Vivec fought was the version from the current Kalpa.
Whats more confusing is that the ruddy man is said by some accounts to be a child of vivec and molag bal. Which fucks up the timeline.
Things I've noticed about Vivec, TES, and Buddhism PART 1:
-The shape of the world in the TES universe is that of a wheel with 8 spokes. In Buddhism, one of the main symbols (if not THE main symbol) is that of the Dharmachakra (or the "wheel of dharma"). Google it to see what I mean.
-Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) had two specific chief disciples. One was his "right hand side chief disciple" named Śāriputra, the other was his "left hand side chief disciple" named Maudgalyāyana. Search those two names on wikipedia and look at the statues in the main picture on their respective pages. Then, look at Vivec's right-hand side and his left-hand side. Coincidence?
-The Buddha was born into a life of decadence and luxury as a prince and later abandoned it all for a life of poverty and became a spiritual leader upon achieving enlightenment (or "nirvana"). Vivec grew up in a life of poverty and hardship and later rose up to become a literal god king (with the help of the Heart) upon achieving enlightenment (or "CHIM"). Is Vivec the anti-Buddha?
-Terminology: The "Six Walking Ways" of Vivec's sermons and the "Noble Eightfold Path" in Buddhism. A path is a literal "walking way". Kirkbride's writings are filled with the use of synonymous terminology to obscure simpler concepts.
Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk.
It is a shame that the Tribunal murdered Nerevar, but they would get their revenge. In the end, the Nerevarine broke their heart.
How so dit nerevarine break their hearts?
@@SingingSealRiana He's talking about the Heart of Lorkhan. That's a pun.
@@emriia true ^^
These videos are absolutely insane. The quality of your content is second to none. I'm having such a blast learning about ES lore, keep it coming!
34:30 If I commit murder, then suffer amnesia, am I still culpable?
"If I commit murder, then use the power that I gained from that murder to rewrite history so that I was always an immortal bi-racial hermaphrodite god king that didn't murder my best friend, am I still culpable?"
@@vivecthepoet36 lmao exactly
@@vivecthepoet36 it’s the thought that counts, then again, Vivec could’ve spammed taunt.
@@vivecthepoet36 America would like to know.
@@smocloud i heard that there is a lot of oil under morrowind
My first impression of the whole "I did and didnt kill Nerevar" sounds like Vivec is just coping and making excuses for murdering a friend who cared for them.
I think in ESO, there's a cool moment where Sotha Sil briefly talks about Nerevar and it seems like Sotha misses Nerevar or regrets doing something, cool little moment.
Whoa... I never knew about the "FOULMURDER" hidden in the 36th lesson. Oh man, that is awesome. I wonder how it was living MILLENIA with THAT on your conscience...
Incredibly insightful video. I thought I knew everything and that ultimately the story of Vivec was - while still complex - much more simple than it actually is. The amount of detail and dissection is very impressive, thank you!
I love the Elder Scrolls series and I also love Oblivion and Skyrim and Morrowind
I love my family, I also love my father mother and siblings
Same!
@@Monkeyboy875 yes now
@@CrackedConker yes now
@@ImperialsOnTop did someone steal your sweetroll
Recently started playing Morrowind, so this shit is appreciated.
Same.
Welcome to the best TES game, boys. If it had updated combat, it would be sheer perfection.
I too started a vanilla playthrough again after a 15 year break.
@@eluherrahaz1165 best of wishes on that vanilla playthrough man
The fact that they put this much lore in one open world game is insane
Unmatched
I gotta say I'm fairly reserved with my 'like' ratings on YT, but these videos are so in depth and well produced that it's really hard to justify not doing so, I've had to hit the back button to get to a few of them, but you have many of my likes. Your lore is helping me through a difficult time right now and I really appreciate all the hard work and effort you have all done for us. Thank you.
Thanks so much! We appreciate it a lot!
Where must it go?
-Molag Bal
This was way funnier than it should have been. xd
*cursed*
All nine holes. At the same time. For at least a month. -Vivec
Don't forget to bridge, babe! - also Vivec
Deeper. Into the bowels...
-- Molag Bal 4E 201
Subscribed! Recommended here via my post in Eso group Facebook, questioning the vvardenfell lore & seeking time frames! Happy to be here!
As someone who like most started their journey on TES with Skyrim, it surprises me how narrow Skyrim's story is, considering how rich is TES's lore is in the big picture, I can totally see how true fans of the series felt a bit let down with the latest release, hopefully the next release touches more interesting bits of the lore and maybe explain a few mysteries? I'd love that! Anyways thank you for giving us so much lore content guys, keep it up!
This will be the one that makes me subscribe. Vivec is my favorite character in the elder scrolls universe and the source of many a joke I make about faking it till you make it and bullshitting your way into being the protagonist.
This was a beautiful exploration of both the Canon resources we have as well as the interpretations of that information as it stands.
The lore in this universe is so ALIVE. It feels like real histories, real myths, and real people experiencing it.
Well... I guess *we* all get to experience it, and we are real.
It's some of my favorite fantasy lore, period. It's so rich and deep. Blows my mind it's all from video games.
Eh. Tolkein blows this out of the water, and doesn't have Kirkbride slobbering all over it.
hi I haven't watched yet
but since there are few comments rn I have hopes you'll see this
I absolutely love your guys content whole heartedly I've liked every video and watched them all multiple multiple times
your channel is the one I always look forward to seeing pop up in my feed
That... was actually pretty legit... The whole “‘asleep’ but conscious in a sort of timeless ‘beyond’/‘other world’” thing is highly reminiscent of the Lovecraft Mythos, particularly the ‘Dreamlands’ (duh). Very interesting. Well done. 👍
The way you jump between quoting books or npc's, explaining the meaning of those things from the perspective of someone who belives in and is subject to the lore, and then drawing from out of game knowledge is giving me meta whiplash and it is very fitting for this particular topic
I would explain Vivec by saying he’s very sexy
We are of the same mind on this.
Same lol
Correct 👌
Indeed
@Lt. Dan 🤷♀️
This is your best video. Great job man
Keep up the good work guys. U took my favourite games and made them even better. My appreciation for the elder scrolls universe and it’s complexity is largely down to u guys 👍
Glad to see this pop up into my recommends - a very solid video. May I suggest writing the quotes on screen when using them? At times, the flow between reading these quotes and extrapolating on them is quick and can be difficult to discern when the transition was meant to begin. Plus, I believe it would add more visual impact, as well as allow the viewer to pause and digest the quote at their leisure.
only other character I'm so fascinated by like in some of morrowinds (tribunal, yagrun bagarm, divayeth fyr, nerevarine himself etc.) in later games is basically only sheogorath
Wow that was a really intelligent video! I really appreciate all the thought and work you guys put into this. Seriously was a long video too it must've been a lot of work 😂😂
33:15 the way you describe Vivec talking about what being a god is like, specifically how they go to the “god place” and see all time at once reminds me of the movie Arrival, where the alien’s language doesn’t have a concept of time , they perceive all events happening simultaneously. And (spoiler alert) the main linguist communicating with the aliens experiences this as the movie progresses, since there’s a theory in linguistics that the language you speak alters how you perceive your reality (you can see this most concretely in the ability of people of certain cultures to distinguish different colors). The director uses the structure of the film itself (ie editing different clips together) to show the audience how the main character is experiencing this shift in her reality
Best examination of Vivec out there. Great job, guys!
Hmm seems cool but does he get to the cloud district very often?
Begone Daedra
He IS the cloud district, you n'wah
Nazeem He is both the cloud district and the plains district. Both heaven and earth. Night and day. The same and different. You Nazeem, are just a terrible farmer who thinks he is good with the jarl. Begone back to your little farm peasant!!!
Simp
Nazeem I know about your affair.
35:35 that Ordinator is just..floating there lol
Loved the video!
What a beautiful retelling of Vivec's story. It's clear you love this character as much as many of us. And, you gave an eloquent account of his life.
Thank you! 💖
Been a fan of you guys ever since the dark crusader build all those years ago. Keep up the great work and thank you for giving me love for a game franchise that at the time went under my radar
I kinda think, we like Vivec cause he is a little, like us, not us the nerevarine, us the players, when we play a game we both do and don't do atrocities thanks to Save reload, that's probably what makes Vivec so relatable, when he says "I both did it and did not do it" it's like "I Quicksaved, did it, loaded the last save file, and didn't do it this time".
Daaamn... I was playing Morrowind in 02-03 when i was 13-14 and I certainly didn't acknowledge all this historical, mythical and philosophical stuff but I felt that this game and this world is very huge in all means and very awesome.
I would love to see a movie of the story of Nerevar and the Tribunal. It is such a captivating story and incredible characters.
Super happy I found your channel yesterday - been binging it and both - learning awesome knowledge, and the nostalgia for early mornings in my childhood, playing Morrowind with starry eyes - feel super great.
i love how much he was like a hindu god figure; read anything from Indian mythology and you cant deny the awesome inspirations.
I was lucky to read a plenty of Indian mythology and Buddhist text when I started playing the game so reading the sermons was like heeeeey i know this kind of literature :D
Vivec is absolutely taken from Hindu Mythology. Echoes of Krishna and Vishnu.
YES I was wanting a Vivec video for a few hours and this gets uploaded
14:52 which puts into perspective how powerful Tiber Septim was.
More so shows that both Tiber Septim and Vivec understood that problems can be solved by diplomacy instead of throwing armies at each other.
Probably just god stuff.
This channel is one of my faves. The two people who got me into Skyrim were not as into it as I got. I was the only one who read the in-game books. Then again, I was the only one who stripped the dead and sold their stuff as well haha
Vivec in ESO looks like he been swimming in oil
God this channel is great. I always come back to watch this vid. Vivec is such a fascinating character
This is why Morrowind's lore is the best. Thanks for making this video!
I'd love to hear your take on the Bloodborne lore
Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination. Viveka is considered as first requirement for the spiritual journey. Advaita Vedanta Darshana interprets viveka as discrimination between the real and the unreal while Visistadvaita Vedanta Darshana interprets viveka as discrimination of food.
According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as a sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever-present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.
I don't know, if Vivek is equal to vivec in any form except how same they are pronounced. Vivek is more on the spectrum of thinking and logic power than spiritual mumbo jumbo. Vivek is what makes human( manushya: descendants of lord manu) different from other beings.
Discernment is a better and more accurate term than discrimination.
Mephala: I don't know, I kinda liked when they killed nerevar. Best held secret I've ever seen.
I watched a lot of FudgeMuppet videos so far and I'm still in awe of the production quality!