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They killed Jamie’s whole arc with one single line “I never really cared about the people” that’s literally a main reason why he killed the mad king to save kingslanding
100% agree Jamies' arc was one of the best being this outwardly arrogant guy, but deeply honorable and empathetic and i think it showed the most with Birenne. It just seemed like a giant middle finger to the fans and his character :(
I had originally thought this as well but I have gotten around to reading the books and the more I read the more I’ve realized they fucked up long before season 8. Not including certain events and characters I think fucked up too much. Spoilers For example Varys in these later seasons feels useless and without purpose this is due to faegon missing from the show, similar things like this happen with many other characters. Dornish plot, northern conspiracy, lady stone heart, Euron being euron, Victorian, cold hands, jeyne pool, rickon, selmey, that’s just from the dome the list goes on and on.People blame George for not finishing the books which I do partly agree with but I don’t believe they would have been able to even make the book ending with all of these inconsistencies.
It's just a bit hilarious the way Cersei scoots away from the battle between the Mountain and the Hound like, "'Scuse me, I'm just gonna go find the ladies room."
Spartan pointing out Pudgey not crying at all of the big character deaths in this one is spot on. It really shows you how fans could feel how rushed things were in these last few episodes
I remember being the exact same way when this episode aired. I just couldn't feel the connection to any of the characters anymore. I didn't cry to any death at all during the last season except Theon's and no other scene touched me. It was such a missed opportunity to be the greatest show in tv history.
wild to me that someone like hodar ended with a more iconic well written death moment than cersei, Jamie, varvsys, little finger, night king and the Hound....
It's got 2 of the best episodes of the entire show: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (epsiode 2) and The Bells (episode 5). The 3rd and 6th episodes are very good and the 1st and 4th episodes are just ok. Still makes for a good season of GOT in my book.
@@Regenmacher175those are literally 2 of the bottom 5 episodes in this entire show. Everyone knows that. Season 8 absolutely ruined the integrity of the entire show and plot.
Problem is they rushed it I don’t mind the majority of how the storylines ended it just didn’t make sense for it to happen as fast as it went against all story arcs that they had taken time to develop D&D messed it up for money and it ended up essentially blacklisting them for years
@@MT-UK LOL no. They worked for 2 years on 6 episodes. They didn't rush anything. Also, most plot points of the final season had been hinted at for seasons already so it just felt natural in hindsight.
The entire Golden Company instantly dying in a dragon attack they somehow didn't hear coming is the funniest part of this episode to me. Like they couldn't think of any way for this battle to progress besides just wiping them out in a single scene with no impact whatsoever
@@Krucifus And those projects are still in the works btw, and then we get a whole Rian Johnson trilogy, according to the savior of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kenedy. Be still my beating heart!
@@DavetheAvatar in show maybe but in books she is hero Tyrione is villain we were suppose to see him turing into monster after his speach in season 4 but that whitewash him he wants to kill his sibling Jamie too Danerys have bigger problems so many men are coming her way she was war in Mereen and betrayer in her court and Harpy wants her dead and she is sick on Dothraki Sea so she has no time to go mad and her final fate in one the wall or on the North
Spartan: "I'm waiting for a rock to fall on them to be honest." And then his face 10 minutes later when his joke turned into how Jamie & Cersi actually die... The way I CACKLED 😂 What a criminally anti-climactic death.
Just because it's anticlimactic doesn't mean it's bad. I don't understand what problem people have with Cersei's death. She dies buried by the fortress she believed was the safest place, the place where the entire series has been protected since season 1. It's poetic. And her only consolation is dying in Jaime's arms. It's the best and only possible ending for them. What did people expect? Being eaten by Drogon? Would that have been more spectacular and would have made more sense? I can understand the criticism for the rushed pace of the ending, but the fate of each character is the most coherent.
57:22 if you are confused about this, imagined the cast when they got their scripts. Watch the table read, it's painful. And then, they have to say positive things while promoting the premieres but you can see in their eyes and gestures they were not satisfied.
Dude, don't try to engage in mindreading. You don't know what those people thought or why they thought what they thought. Just don't even try to project your feelings onto people who worked on this show....maybe act like an adult instead.
The Show Runners were offered multiple seasons to finish the show but declined and wanted to end to show as quickly as possible cause they'd gotten a contract for a fancy new Star Wars show that they wanted To make, so they completly rushed the shows ending. After the incredible backlash for the shows bad ending they lost their contracts to make the new Star Wars show.
The Greyjoy faction is one of the biggest differences from the books. The Iron Fleet is actually led by a man named Victarion Greyjoy, which is Balon and Euron's brother. And currently in the books he is actually on his way to join his fleet up with Daenerys. And also, this is how you guys feel after watching the show for 8 months or so. Imagine being invested in this for nearly a decade, and then this is how it all ends. I can tell you that it was fucking horror xP
@@mermaidreviews4693 Early seasons of GoT were on a whole nother level than HotD so far, but yeah. Remember how it was like to just have to wait a whole year after Jon Snow was killed? A whole year between every season where you could talk and speculate on what came next? Good times, but it makes the conclusion so much worse.
I didn't start GoT until season 3 premiere, but have watched each new season every year since The amount of years I've spent loving this series just came crashing down so hard and it truly did feel like such a waste of time at the end of it all
Notice how in the start a servant came back to Varys to tell him Dany wasn’t eating or drinking anything, and Varys said they will keep trying. He was trying to poison her so she’d be dead by the time the letters got to where they were going.
One of the best things in GoT was how well acted every character was, but especially the bad guys. Lena Headey, Jack Gleeson, Iwan Rheon especially made characters so utterly hateable, but at the same time human and believable. Absolutely flawless performances.
I personally love Cersei… the villains are always so much more entertaining…. I also like the relationship with Jaime and Cersei. Jaime said he wanted to die in the woman he loves arms and he did, regardless if anyone agrees with his choice he has loved Cersei his whole life and even though I’m sure he had love for Brienne he loves Cersei more. Incest aside the coming into the world together leaving it together is kinda beautiful.
Remember Dany's vision when she goes to the iron throne full of falling dust and then she goes to Drogo and her son in heaven? That was forshadowing this episode
In the book it’s different she sees: A beautiful, naked woman being ravished by four little men who resemble the dwarf servitor. A feast of slaughtered corpses holding cups, spoons, and food, with a dead man with a wolf's head sitting on a throne wearing an iron crown, apparently foreshadowing the Red Wedding. Daenerys's childhood house with the red door in Braavos, along with Ser Willem Darry. A throne room with dragon skulls on the walls where a king resembling Aerys II Targaryen sits on a barbed throne and appears to give the order to burn the Red Keep during the Sack of King's Landing. A room where a silver-haired man (presumably Rhaegar Targaryen) is with a woman and a baby. The man names his son Aegon, says the child is "the prince that was promised", then plays a harp. A "splendor of wizards" who falsely claim to be the Undying of Qarth and offer to teach Daenerys the secret speech of dragonkind. After reaching the gloomy chamber of the Undying Ones, Daenerys is also shown:[3] The death of her brother, Viserys Targaryen. A tall lord with copper-skin and silver-gold hair beneath a banner of a fiery stallion, with a burning city in the background (this may be a glimpse at what Rhaego's future would have been). A dying prince (likely Rhaegar Targaryen) mutters a woman's name with his last breath, rubies flying from his chest. A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow (possibly Stannis Baratheon) raises a red sword in his hand. A cloth dragon sways on poles amidst a cheering crowd. A great stone beast takes wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadows. Daenerys's silver trots through grass to a darkling stream under a sea of stars. A corpse standing at the prow of a ship with bright eyes and grey smiling lips (possibly a reference to greyscale or a Greyjoy) A blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice, filling the air with sweetness (this could indicate Jon Snow's true parentage and potential kinship to Daenerys). Boneless, terrible shadows whirl inside a tent. A little girl (likely Daenerys) runs barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur's death by pyre. The corpse of the wineseller who had attempted to poison Daenerys being dragged behind her silver. A white lion running through tall grass. Naked crones emerging from a great lake beneath the Mother of Mountains to kneel before Daenerys. Ten thousand slaves crying "Mother!" as Daenerys rides past on her silver.
@@SG-df9er that was the whole point. Some characters are tragic from start to finish, and that's perfectly fine. He had one goal his entire life and that was to kill his brother. His obsession with that goal was his ruin, it kept him from having a happy life and it took his life in the process. In the end he still had the beautiful moment of saving Arya from having the same fate. She would stay obsessed her entire life until her list of names was empty, but Sandor made her see what that did to him. Yes, the ending of the show is trash. Yes, Cleganebowl was fan service. But also yes, it made sense and was glorious.
@@SG-df9er Not really pointless when you consider Arya was willing to go down the same path of blind vengeance. I honestly get the choice he made to dedicate himself to it but he still a good man, he saved her through that example.
I wondered after this scene, did Varys also try to poison Aerys II (the Mad King), and if so (conspiracy theory) did he try and poison them both with lead, this would explain their madness, and how ironic would it be if the whole war from Aerys II to now was Varys's fault.
Yeah. They should have gone with more episodes on how she slowly loses her mind. For 7 seasons they made sure to show us on how "strong" her character is.... then it's all of sudden it's all gone within 2-3 episodes. 😂 Same with Jaime's, all that character development for nothing.
You might have missed that Varys tried to poison Dany. His sent a "little bird" to the kitchens and she reported that Dany wouldn't eat. Also Jon's claim is really "better" only because he is the last male descendent, this resentment is something explored more fully in HOD. If they didn't rush the last season, the paranoia of danger from all quarters and the death of Missandei may have made her "breaking" more understandable.
Not only because he is a man (although this is actually a huge advantage over Dany), but also because he is the son of Rhaegar, and Rhaegar was the heir to the throne, so after his death, his children are the most worthy contenders.
Please can you explain to me why Varys suddenly wanted to kill Dany? End of S6 he was off recruiting people to his clause and then next thing I knew he was betraying Dany and then convinced Tyrion to do so as well. Tyrion the one who bent the knee when she named him Hand of the Queen. Was Tyrion really so put out that she didn't follow his advice as obediently after he was wrong a few time? The show made no sense.
It would have made sense for her to snap and burn the red keep with Cersei...there is absolutely no reason for her to burn random civilians like a maniac
Right? And they could have had it where Cersei had wildfire hidden around the city so when Dany hit the red keep that caused the city to burn. One final middle finger from Cersei and still blame on Dany to complicate things
Let's say you DO WANT to make a heel turn with Dany. Everything you needed was already there! It just wasn't used! Imagine an episode between this one and the last one: Dany says to Jon, "I am in love with you." Jon responds, "You are me Queen." Dany, "Nothing more?" Jon, "I don't know what you want me to say." You could show Dany crying and going into a deep depression for the episode. Even more, you can have her talk about Mereen and when she showed the people mercy, love, and justice they revolted against her and tried to kill her. And that she won't make that mistake again. Learning the wrong lesson. It was all there, all the story point were there to turn Dany into a heel.
The Iron Throne is the Ring in this world. Everyone who wanted it was corrupted by it. And it was building in Dany since the second season. I think this season could have been handled better in terms of timing/pacing. But as for WHAT happened? She abused power from really early on and it kept building. I think our problem is that we all kept excusing things like death sentences, crucifixions, etc. because we liked her and believe in the myth of redemptive violence. I think the point of George R. R. Martin’s story is precisely that violence and the desire for power inevitably corrupts. That we ever rooted for Dany just reveals how much we’re implicated in and excuse the violence of our own world.
jon and varys just casually talking about treason on the beach doesn't get enough criticism. like seriously what the hell, in broad daylight with people around.
@@Crazy-pl1lo that doesn't have anything to do with the first comment, sounds like you're a bit fixated with some sort of idea and you're just looking for reasons to bring up bad writting in an entirely unrelated topic.
Varys was plotting to kill Danny and supplant her with Jon- she had no choice but to execute him. She’s also right that Jon was the one who did tell people she didn’t want to know. The only other way this could’ve possibly ended would be for Danny to give up all her power, marry Jon, and be his baby maker. That’s the exact opposite of her entire life goals.
It's completely out of character for Tyrion to turn in Varys. Tyrion wouldn't do that knowing she would kill Varys. Dany should have found out another way. And then confronted Tyrion to see if he knew and didn't tell her. This would have made Tyrion ALSO a betrayer! And her threatening him understandable! Here Tyrion shows complete loyalty, and she threatens him? Tyrion trusted Varys with a secret and then betrays him over that save secret? Would have made more sense if Dany had Varys room searched because more and more people were learning about Jon being true heir.
Killing Varys was justified I won't disagree, but your second point falls apart as the show has already mentioned at this point. Danny is stronger willed than Jon and would be able to control him in anyway she saw fit. He worshipped her and wouldn't have usurped power from her. They would have both sat on the thrown with Jon being the lesser not Dany. Jon was more well loved and that made her jealous, but she would have done anything she wanted and he would stand by and watch happy to be with her. The writing was just bad about this being what set her off and made her paranoid. She easily controlled Jon as long as she didn't go against his adopted family directly she would have been fine. The only thing that makes sense for her to attack Kingslanding the way she did was for it to be about rage. I'd argue though that was out of character for her to take her anger out on the average people. Maybe if they'd given her descent into madness longer it would have made sense, but as it stands she is in the East loves helping the little man even when it puts great risk to herself, her friends, and her dragons, goes to the West and instantly becomes a murdering monster because she lost a few friends and her "babies" dragons.
Who cares if she didn't want Jon to tell. It was the truth, it was his story to tell. He had every right to tell. She was just too threatened by the TRUTH and that was her downfall. If you can't handle the truth and find a way to be the Queen despite the truth then you don't deserve the throne.
I thought the way the mountain and the hound ended was actually the most poetic part of the whole ending. It would have been cool to see the hound survive... But it was kind of cool to see them go out together like that.
cleganebowl 😂 a real good ending for his character tho would have been to let go of his hate and finally accept knighthood as a kingsguard in the finale
It would've been poetic and cool if it wasn't for the shit ending to their fight, they just die together in fire...........like, really. And there was no great emotional conflict or anything during their fight, Hound has a conscience and The Mountain doesnt. Should've played with that aspect to give more dynamic to the fight than just the bland fan service we got. The fight has no replay value to me. The Mountain vs Oberyn, now that's a fight with replay value
So err, Varys was trying to kill Dany at the start at the episode. He was trying to poison her, Dany suspected though and that's why she wasn't eating.
Danny has been brutal but never cruel. She went from saving the world from white walkers, to killing innocents in the span of one episode. Her character was assassinated, and her arc wasn’t expanded enough for this quick turn.
You DID see her burn a woman to death on her husband's funeral pyre and nail hundreds of people to crosses, right? Just because the deserved it doesn't mean her doing it isn't acting cruelly.
@@AtheistPilgrim have you ever heard of context? Arya brutally murdered two people by slitting their throats. Sansa fed a man to dogs and smiled while waking away. Jon beheaded a man who was crying and begging for mercy. Arya killed a hundred men and baked them into a pie and fed them to their father.
I just hate that this season always CUTS AWAY whenever it's a BIG reaction that we've all been waiting a LONG time to see, and has MAJOR implications on how the story is told going forward... it's like the mentality is: "well that's HARD to do... so we're just not doing it"
Let's shoot the Long Night in the dark so we can fudge the effects so that no one can see what we did to save $$$! We're brilliant! Star Wars, here we come! (Not hating on the Long Night, the episode was phenomenal.)
@@Golladan Viewers discovering what an ellipsis is. We also don't see Varys' reaction when Tyrion tells him. There is no need to see each character's reaction to that secret. We see Jon's reaction when Sam told him. And we see Daenerys' reaction when Jon tells her. That is, they show us the reactions of the two most important characters involved.
they've obviously seen the last episode by the time this posted so this isn't a spoiler for them but WOW Pudgey calling Bran being king was impressive!!!!
Yep she nailed it I just hope she doesn’t change her mind and say “it doesn’t make sense” like most people did when it actually happens in the finale. Bran was the best man for the job, Jon was far too naive to rule Westeros and he didn’t want to either
@@theblues8840 I feel like that is the problem with a lot of peoples complaints...They think it sucks because the character didn't do what they wanted/expected them to do. Jon belongs in the North, he doesn't belong as King...Dany was hot headed killing and threatening people for 8 seasons but they're shocked when she destroys Kings Landing....
@@Murder_34The problem is not that Bran was made king per se. It makes NO SENSE that he says that he came all the way to become king after saying the previous episodes that he wasn't a man, he doesn't feel anymore, that he lives in the past and that he'd become something else (aka the 3 eyed raven).
@@natidel81 It was a front. He was pretending to be spazzed out to escape Dany's attention. Had he said he was the heir to Winterfell, he'd be under Dany's radar instantly.
Yes!! 🤣🤣🤣 The histories and lore they reacted to a couple weeks ago: the golden company is legendary, has never been beaten, and will only return to Westeros under specific circumstances The Bells: blonde horse guy stands, stares, go boom
When Jamie left Kings Landing it started snowing. Winter finally came. Then when the battle hits, the Golden Company are standing in a desert like they're in Dorne or something. Absolute trash design and effort in attention to detail.
@@themetalpig7613 The wasteland at the gate where they killed Missandei will always make me crack up. I specifically recall twitter live reactions debating if that scene was even happening at Kingslanding 😅
It’s a little different. Simply proclaiming some pretender / rebel who is in truth a false king is treason. Jon is not a false king. By all the laws, Jon comes before Dany in the line of succession as the true born son of Rhaegar. Technically Daenerys is committing treason by continuing to call herself queen of the seven kingdoms after discovering that the lord of her house and her rightful king is alive and well. I would say the only treason Varys committed was conniving behind her back after he swore to her that he would look in her in the face and tell her how he believed she was failing as a queen
@@warpedwhimsical your opinion depends on the existence of rightfulness in leading a feudal serfdom-based society, and also on social norms and rules that have been open to interpretation and challenged even by people from that world and time.
@@kenok1225While it is true that lines of succession were often somewhat cloudy in IRL Medieval Europe, Westeros is not Merovingian France. In Universe, the Targaryens established a strict law of succession following the Dance of Dragons, in an effort to prevent any future civil wars. Any attempt to press a Targaryen claim on the Iron Throne that does not adhere to the law of succession that existed between the end of the Dance of Dragons and the end of Robert's Rebellion is absolutely illegitimate. That law of succession operated according to the rule of what we would, in our world, call Semi-Salic primogeniture. Now, even if it were gender-equal primogeniture, the claim of the older child supercedes the claims of their younger siblings, and the claim of the older child is passed on to their own children upon their death, to the effect that the eldest surviving child of the eldest child of a King would come before that King's younger children in the line of succession. So, starting out, Jon, as the only surviving child of Rhaegar Targaryen, incontrovertibly comes before Daenerys in the established line of succession. But, to add to that, Westeros did not have gender-equal primogeniture. Under the Semi-Salic law, a female heir cannot inherit whatsoever if there are any male-line male members of the royal line who are living. If there is any living male-line descendant of Aegon I who has a penis and is not at that time a member of either the Order of Maesters, the Night's Watch, or the King's Guard, Daenerys has no right to the Targaryen claim on the Iron Throne. Jon's very existence disqualifies her from pressing that claim at all.
@@troythompson1768 that doesn't prevent me from seizing power, proclaiming myself the king, and making my own rules, that's how the Targaryen dynasty was founded too.
@@Wraiven22he's an all-knowing omnipotent being, has it occurred to you perhaps he lied and said that to get his desired outcome? Why do you take him at face value
@@DrewDragoon so essentially he’s suddenly a power hungry psychopath who lies to people around him to get power? Still don’t like it and find it stupid lol
Same here, I remember when I watched that scene for the first time, I rewinded a dozen times to where he said _Pork sausage_ with that weird inflection. It's absolutely hilarious, and it was the time I started enjoying the character of Ramsay. Of course he was a psychopath of the worst sort, a horrible sadist ... but he gave a lot to the show. You need someone to hate, right?
Spartan pointing out that Pudgey never got emotional once during the whole episode is a god damn good measuring stick on how wack this episode was! I'm pretty sure she got emotional during every episode up to s7 XD
Getting emotional means you aren't thinking clearly & emotion is controlling your logic. When faced with reality & the truth you should be pretty sober in your reaction when you hear it.
Varys death did make sense varys literally tired to kill her twice before this and danny did tell him if he ever tried to conspire behind her back she would excute him and she did
“Nah, Dani is done. Throw her in the bin.” 😂😂😂 The Hound was my favorite character. That scene between Arya and him broke me. Also had the same reaction to Jamie and Cersai. They deserved a better death!
That's the point. It's not fun when people with power abuse their power, especially when it's people you previously thought were above that sort of thing. Turns out, the show wanted to hammer that point home by having Dany's betrayal of the audience's trust in her actually feel like a proper betrayal.
She took the city so easy and with only 1 dragon! If she took Olenna's advice when she first arrived to "Be a dragon." Dany wanted to take King's Landing! Things would've gone differently. She went the safe route instead of showing Fire and Blood. When the bells were ringing, I think she realized how fast and easy it was and how much she lost listening to Tyrion. She lost everything! She snapped! Her mindset was set on fear after talking with Jon. My reaction was the same as Spartan 😂 I couldn't connect with how fast things happened.
Don’t forget that Jon’s reaction to Dany is also affected by learning she is his Aunt. He is very straight laced and was raised by Ned stark. You don’t have sex with your aunt, even if you’re in love with her.
I don't buy it. It's not like an aunt that you knew all your life. Imagine if you are with Marlilyn Monroe and suddenly you learn that she's your aunt. You're not gonna go "I will stop having sex with her right now!" lol
@@Mike90317That's what pissed me off too. There was no communication. Everytime Dany tried to get affectionate with Jon he would act like a child ( like eeeeuuuw I dont like girls) instead of just sitting down talking to her but no no we just keep getting " you are my Queen " just fucking dumb in my opinion
I like Kit Harrington's performance in this and the last episode too. He just looks broken and troubled throughout, and knows inside there's only one thing that can end it.
The performance as great but Dany couldn't accept that she wasn't going to get what she wanted just because of bloodline or dragon fire. Both have no ties to true love & loyalty.
"Much" is a key word here. And there's truth to it. He was never a saint. He never went out of his way to protect innocent people except in a few instances where he knew them personally or otherwise gained benefit from it. He has always been arrogant and happy with being the rich elite. And yet at the same time he's always wanted to live up to certain ideals and been conflicted about being a bad guy, and this is him trying to convince himself that the bad guy is his true nature just so he'll feel better about his inability to let go of his addiction to Cersei.
I think he still loves and desires her romantically, that's part of his torment. He won't act on it because he was raised a Stark, not a Targaryen, and he finds incest taboo. Daenerys, raised expecting to marry her brother, has no such qualms of course.
@@Silver_Owlbut they messed it up, in the books targs are the only ones who marry siblings, but the starks,lannisters, and a ton of other houses do it. neds parents were cousins and tywins wife was his cousin
i dont agree with this at all lmao. He said he loved her cause he ROMANTICALLY loves her not because he finally learned shes family lmao. Hes conflicted and doesnt want to take it further because she is family but that doesnt mean the feelings just went away. He had a passionate kiss with her even if he pulled back after 3 seconds because he loves her then conflicted reminded himself oh wait I shouldnt do this.
@@Silver_Owl that’s where the writers went stupid. His Targaryen side grandparents are brother and sister and his Stark side grandparents are cousins. They tried to make it taboo by applying real standards to Westeros that didn’t apply.
Imo Emilia Clarke's performance is the main reason this turn is believable. She's doing a lot to fill things in with the bullet point nature of her story arc this season. Think it was such a mistake to not show her face after her decision in this episode and not until her speech in the next episode. Let her performance show us the complicated feelings this would create instead of the 'she IS the dragon' villian turn.
Yeah she made it believable it she didn’t know it was gonna happen fans said when the episode aired she was distraught because in the original script she only burned the red keep but it accidentally caused a wildfire outbreak to start due to Cersei planting it that’s why Cersei closed the gates cause she was willing to sacrifice the people
You literally see her 'decision' as she readies herself to fly Drogon. And not showing Dany's face is a purposeful stylistic choice. The camera transfers from Dany's perspective to the innocent victim's perspective the moment she goes rogue.
@@SerbAtheistit wasn’t purposeful don’t show her face in this scene, because they didn’t filmed it. They wanted the wildfire to explode kingslanding, not Drogon and Dany, but they changed it in the pos production. Emilia Clarke wasn’t even warned about it
As a Daenerys die hard, this act doesn’t have any justification, what is so abysmal and insulting is how the last season completely destroys not only her story, but Jon’s and also the real climactic ending of what the long night was supposed to be.
Facts, like the way Jon was the archetypal hero, had a strange connection to the whitewalkers (all his interactions with the night king always felt like they meant to lead up to something, likely stark/bloodline related). Then NONE of that mattered in the end 😂 Jon's involvement in s8 had nothing to do with the end of the long night, nothing to do with defeating Cersei, and in the end HIS PARENTAGE DIDN'T EVEN MATTER AT ALL!!! Nothing that happened up to the point he was sent north of the wall reflected and significance to R+L=J, being trueborn blood of the dragon, etc. You really have to laugh...
Like I love Dany and seeing her get botched especially from how she was in the books was sad. But ppl often forget the secondary botching of Jon, reduced to effectively a satellite character in what should've been a huge season for him. S7&especially 8 scripts feel like they were generated by AI.
It's still funny to me how Spartan's judgment can at times be clouded by his love for Jon and hatred towards Cersei. Dany killing Varys was totally justified. Terrible writing but from the events leading up to it, IT MAKES SENSE.
I just hate how unsubtle they wrote Varys, Master of Whispers. "Hey Jon, would you like to commit some TREASON? I'm not digging this Dany chick anymore, how about some TREASON? I'm just trying to get some TREASON going up in here if anyone wants to join in."
Wasnt Varys literally trying to poison Dany at the start? like i love Varys but it would be ridiculous to expect someone to keep him alive at that point. I think a lot of her decisions werent entirely wrong. Tyrion also kept failing her for his sister.
Just binged all your GoT reactions and wanted to thank you for breathing back life into this rewatch. I don’t know how many times I’ve watched this series but watching it through you guys’ eyes brought back the magic through emotion (Pudgey) and passion (Spartan). Thanks for being such good sports. One more episode to go!
My only defence for Dany, she no longer has Missandei, Jorah, Selmy, and even Daario, who keeps her grounded and her power in check. Greyworm is still just a soldier, who never gave her political advice. And Tyrion kept failing her with his counsel. But more to the issue here, it was never about Dany, it was how badly the writing this season has been. Don't blame the Dany, blame the writing.
Blame the writing and logical military strategy. Like come on you go with dragons as air support for your navy to dorne to get those forces and then attack KL instead sending your fleet to Castlely Rock and losing your Navy against a night raid of Euron
Her power was never kept in check, she was always a narcissist who felt entitled to supreme power, and brutally violent to those who challenged her, it's just for a long time the show cleverly obscured that by making all of her enemies terrible people too.
even If she got mad!! she could just burn the red keep! What’s the point of destroying a place you want to rule? she didn’t break the wheel, she freaking burned the whole wheel 😂 Edit: About what happened to Varys, seems like everyone forgot that Daeny once said to Varys “If you ever betray me, I will burn you alive.” And Varys replied, “Couldn’t expect anything else from mother of the dragons.”
The funny thing was that was her goal in S7. When the Tyrells, the Greyjoys and the Martells were decimated, she wanted to fly her dragons to storm the Red Keep. The Red Keep, mind you, not King's Landing.
She's enacting collective punishment on the city for not turning on Cersei. She indicates her intention in her discussion with Tyrion earlier. Whether she starts with burning down the Red Keep or not does not really make a difference to her, since she has decided that the whole city must pay for Cersei's actions. It's not difficult to understand.
@@Regenmacher175that would make sense if Dany acted like an angry little silly child the whole show, but she didn't act that way before. King's Landing isn't a slave city, it's not Mereen or Yunkai, the situations are different. King's Ladning population are not slaves, they have always supported whatever king was on the throne, wether is a Targaryen, a Baratheon or a Lannister. Even then, if they don't like the king they protest as we seen before. So nothing of this Dany's arc change makes sense, at least they way it was done.
Conccluding episodes are always anti-climatic. The second half of a story is building climax, and third, final, is releasing tension. That is just how stories go. However, I agree, there this SINGLE episode felt off. I think what people really wanted was for Cersei to be captured alive. And the option was there with the dinghy and Jamie. They could have been caught trying to escape.
@@jucor981 I wouldn't really mind if it is anticlimatic. The problem in my opinion is how it was executed in the show. Everything happening all at once at the same time, and bad writing along the way.
@@thinkhector Tell that to the Expanse, Black Sails, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Agents of Shield, Steins Gate, ATLA, or literally any other goated tv shows out there. This was objectively badly written
I’ve argued ever since the show premiered that Danni’s nature was revealed early and often. In season one episode ten she pledges to her followers that those who harm then will die screaming. From that point on her first choice is to kill betrayers, slavers and people who harm those she protects. Her advisors talked her down: burning down the slave cities after their revolts, crucifying the Masters and denying them burial, feeding them to the dragons as revenge for killing Selme and wounding Grey Worm, burning the defiant prisoners after the battle of the train, etc. She listened to advisors often and curbed her initial desire, but by the Bells her advisors were all dead, Tyrion was betraying her, Jon had told Sansa his secret and she had spread it just as Danni warned, and finally Jon had distanced himself. She was a Dragon Alone.
Yep it was all there, but in all honesty they should of taken a bit more time in the show, but if you watch the behind the scenes of season 8 you can tell Dan and Dave were just done, the show became it's own worst enemy. But still I don't get angry, it was still an amazing watch.
Whether it was in the show or not doesn't matter. The army of King's Landing had laid down their arms. The CITIZENS of King's Landing are innocent. There were no more combatants against her, all she had to do was put fire to the Red Keep. That it would happen, of that I have no doubt. It was clear Dany had evil inside her. But the way it was SHOWN was done extremely poorly. If the army of King's Landing hadn't laid down their arms and she burned the entire city, at least then there'd be some sense to her actions.
@@Noclaf555 They wanted to abandon GoT in favour for their supposed Star Wars contracts. Which is why they cut the series shorter and HBO didn't get the 10 seasons of 10 episodes each that they had wanted and planned for
To us book readers it was hilarious back around 2013 when people first started doing that. Many theorized that she would eventually become “The Mad Queen” before the show even started, there are hints throughout the books especially in ‘ACoK’.
Dude, there were so many Aegons in the Targaryen family and all had different personalities. Aegon IV is one of the worst kings, whereas lots of people like Aegon I.
You know what's sad, the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that. Yes there was a lot of foreshadowing of Dany coming back to power with "fire and blood" but there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people. (everyone dany had killed there was some justification behind it) What an waste! D&D, it seems that this show was too big for you !
Yeah, that's the difference between competent writers and these hacks. It's not necessarily a bad character arc in and of itself but she literally just decides to start massacring civilians for no apparent reason when protecting the common people has been one of her prime motivations for the entire show.
'You know what's sad, the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that.' 7 seasons not enough? 'Yes there was a lot of foreshadowing of Dany coming back to power with "fire and blood"' Yes, violent and cruel people are always great at constraining their violence and cruelty only on the 'bad guys.' 'there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people' Hahaha! 'Maybe you're all innocent, maybe not. I'll let my dragons decide.' 'If I give everyone what they deserve, I'll have no one left to rule.' 'They'll know who's to blame when the sky falls upon them.' Really, the exact kind of words of someone who cares for the innocent people! For 8 seasons Dany's had nothing but contempt for the ordinary person under the veneer of caring for them. The only role she perceived for an average person is to be her slave in perpetuity, and moreso to be grateful in such an arrangement for being 'saved.'
Went from “he was prepared for the consequences” of his actions to calling Varys death stupid when she literally told him she would burn him if he conspired behind her back 😂 salute to the mad queen for saying eff it and letting loose
Dany did say to Varys that if he ever betrayed her that she would burn him alive…. But I 100% agree that Dany should have listened to what Vary’s had to say before she killed him.
@@drrohanjacobexactly and he tried to have her poisoned with the little girl in the beginning. So quick to switch sides only because Jon has a c*ck. Fuck him
@@SerbAtheist Her last words should have been "why are you killing me, I'm your most valuable bargaining chip, this makes zero sense, what kind of woefully incompetent drooling simpletons wrote this script?"
Remember Maester Aemon's line - "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing." Dany felt completely alone by this point. She lost Misande and Jorah, and she felt betrayed by Tyrion and Varys. Jon had pulled away from her romantically because he couldn't stomach the idea of incest.
I’m going to have to defend Dany a little bit here, but first I want to get some things out of the way- I don’t care who sits on the Iron throne. I don’t care if “Jon was always better” in the end. Jon’s just another Robb. This is strictly about Daenerys. I do wish things ended differently, but for now this is what we got and we’ve had years to try to make do or understand it. I think out of all the characters in the show, Daenerys suffers the most inside. She’s constantly being attacked, followed, picked apart, insulted and from s1-4 she’s done a damn good job ignoring the haters. But after a while she probably couldn’t hide her pain especially since sailing toward westeros. In the books, Dany longs for a family so bad. But more, she wants a home and support. She has no family, and any are either hiding, or worlds away. She only had her advisers and dragons. She wanted a family so bad she even convinced herself her rapist was her lover. Tyrion would rather defend his sister who wants his head on a spike- rather than Dany who saved him from having his head on a spike. He was a terrible advisor to her and in the books- he’s WAY worse. Also Varys is such a Hypocrite. He constantly stalked and spied on Dany for Robert- a child done dirty by the realm. Varys literally caters to the lords of westeros and spys, kills, and betrays anyone they tell him too. You guys know what he does with his web of children once’s he’s done with them right? nothing good. varys deserved to die, and Daenerys deserved to kill him. He literally helped have her sold and helped robert send one assassin after her even when admitting to her that he knew nothing of her other than that she was beautiful. Not to mention he tried to poison her. Dany also probably through so much grief and loss and betrayal, lost her sense and motive. The iron throne wasn’t what it was for her no more, so saving the people of kingslanding meant nothing to her. Although I wished he never burnt the city down- we got what we got. The ending was so fucked up and Dan and David wanted Dany to look like a villain so bad just to make other characters look good. Book Dany is arguably so much better and from my opinion, would never do anything of that.
@@leewatch7459 Yea, She was destined for greatness but her character was ruined so badly. Hopefully the books continue a great story where such events don’t happen
She tortured the masters by crucifying them instead of just killing or imprisoning them. She threatened to burn everyone in Qarth because some of the 13 didn't do what she wanted. She basically tells Jon either you want me romantically & week be dishonorable and lie or you are nothing to me, I never wanted a nephew just a bastard that would never be my equal. She is most definitely not a better ruler than Jon. Jon would've been Robb if he hadn't killed Dany. But Jon put duty & what was best for the people first instead of love, emotion.
Many viewers and reactors mention that Jaime has a character arc and that they don't understand why he went back to Cersei, but to me it made sense: if you look at all Jaime's statements throughout the show, he always made clear he loves her, not matter what. They did have arguments, but ultimately they always loved each other. To me there was never a sign that he would really oppose her.
They were toxic but that doesn’t mean she loved him. Cersei is a narcissist and since Jamie is her twin she uses and seduces him whenever she sees fit in the book after his hand is cut she’s never the same to him plus he burns her letter when she ask for help during her time in prison by the faith. D&D ruined his entire character making him a lovesick puppy after season 4 ended
exactly why he didn’t have an arc then. if he starts the show by saying “i love Cersei and want to be with her” then ends the show by saying “I love Cersei and want to be with her”, then he didn’t go anywhere
exactly why he didn’t have an arc then. if he starts the show by saying “i love Cersei and want to be with her” then ends the show by saying “I love Cersei and want to be with her”, then he didn’t go anywhere
I always took it as showing just how loyal Jaime really is. All the terrible things she did and he never wavered from his absolute devotion to her . He knew she was “hateful” he knew she was a monster but the kingslayer was so loyal he would give his own happiness away for her. Absolute mug.
'I'm waiting for a rock to fall on them to be honest' is the funniest reaction to the Jaime/Cersei reunion lmao. How right he was. I didn't care when Jaime died, he was my favourite character and I didn't care. That fight with Euron was painful to watch, boring and unnecessary. He didn't even ring the bells. Character motivations were lost in these last few Episodes, it's just people doing things for plot reasons. I don't actually hate what happened, but it felt so unearned to me. I really sympathise with your conflicted feelings, I felt the same
@@markharris1125 I don't think they knew what to do with her so they concocted a prophecy to give her a climatic moment. I think a lot of her possible storylines were cut from the show altogether
@Bronze_Wing Yep, you can tell that from her being in King's landing. Perhaps they originally wanted her to fight the mountain alongside the hound, or to kill Cersei. As it was, they decided on other outcomes, so arya was left to faff around and get bloody in the city 😂
Because people who watched for years spent the offseason making up crazy theories and were disappointed when they didn’t happen instead of enjoying the story for what it is
@theblues8840 agree. So many of the theories ended up with a lot of happy endings even though supposedly fans know if "if you think there will be a happy ending you weren't paying attention".
People forget Dany was actually friends with Missandei and loved her. Missandei said “Dracarys” and Dany followed her advice. .The destruction of Kings Landing is her way of taking the throne and putting fear in the hearts of anyone who would challenge her for the throne.
Yeah, that was the only positive thing about season 8 ... the actors still being excellent and trying to make the best of the garbage they had been given. This is not the only show that started off excellently and then, once it had success, drastically lost quality. I think it is the American mentality showing. Watch a sci-fi show named _Falling Skies,_ and you'll know what I mean
Daenerys did say she was to burn Varys alive if he betrayed her, and he not only did that but was trying to kill her poisoning her food. Tyrion betrayes her, Jon betrayes her. She literally lost everyone that actually care about her and two of her dragons that were like her children. And Cersei is trying to use her weakness against her, and we know what happens and someone uses her weakness against her.
Jon lines this season: YOU ARE MY QWEEEEN, SHE IS MY QWEEEEN, I DON WAN IT. That last line is me about the writers who started forgetting the books since season 5
They didn't forget, there are no books that cover the events past season 5. GRR Martin slowed down on writing the next book in the series, instead decided to write spin off and history books. I think they should have put the show on pause and resumed after more books were released, but the show runners wanted to finish the show quickly, so they made up a way to end it fast, which ended up not being satisfying to most viewers.
Huh? Jon being true to his word, holding Honor before personal gain is EVERYTHING Jon is, and has been since the first episode. Not sure where you drew that from.
@@DominikC1994 no they literally butchered Sansa And Baelish story by selling giving sansa to Ramsay while in the books it’s sansas best friend going under Arya’s name which eventually makes Jon wants to ride south to Winterfell and the reason they killed him off not just because he let the wildings through but he wanted to break his vows, then there is dorne literally butchered the whole dorne story which they could have done way more with and not kin slaying all over… The northern conspiracy of overthrowing the boltons and sending Devos to get Rickon, Bloodraven being an insanely important scary character, skipping the part in the prophecy of Cersei getting strangled by her “younger brother”, Mans still being alive and sent to winterfell, Baristen being alive, EURON GREYJOY one of the coolest villains written and in the show just being a clown they butchered him as hard as dorne and could have done so much more with all of this and gotten a better story and ending with it they had so muchhhhh to still use but they just wanted to rush it. The whole Young Gryff story and Tyrion with Jorah going through a lot more places it’s all soooo much stuff they could have worked with…
Makes me a bit sad how easy it is to forget that Cersei and Jaime were twins. Their twin bond goes beyond everything, transcends any kind of love. They grew together, slept together from very young age even as kids, protected each other from others and had one another for literally their whole lives. This was very intense and clear in the books but unfortunately never made it to the show. But its very important to establish their background relationship. Its a poisonous relationship yes, and a sick one at times, but also one that is sealed with a twin's bond and goes beyond reason or any kind of logic. You can never shake that off, its a natural thing. The things we do for love. Of course a twin would always look out for the other no matter what and Jaime had no choice but to return to her in the end, even if he had a minor chance to succeed on saving her. In a way he loves her and he hates her but he had no choice but to return. You don't choose your twin.
I think people just stop at the brother and sister part and forget about the twin bond...some of which has to do them being male and female rather than identical.
@@sakutaro3musik486 Why are you telling someone who they met? That sounds stupid. And why are you bringing up magic like the bond twins share is part of this fantasy world?
Danny at start of the episode: I want to save the people from a tyrant. Danny end of episode: I will kill them all by becoming a tyrant. Jamie killed the Mad King to save innocents. In this episode: I never cared about the people, innocent or otherwise. Writers: yep makes sense, lets do that. sUbVeRTiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS
@@orphanedhanyouYup. She threatened to burn Qarth to the ground way back in S2. Ever since Drogo and her son died she's been cuckoo in the head, it's just that some fans were too blind to see it cause she's hot and dragons are cool, I guess?
At this point in the story, Dany has lost Jorah, Messandi and two of her Dragons. She felt betrayed by Varys and rejected by Jon as well as jealous of how much he is respected and loved by his own people. She is a very young girl who is dealing with all of these emotions that her life has not equipped her for. When the bells rang, she didn't want to "kill" Cersei. She wanted to "hurt" her and took it out on what she perceived as Cersei's people (i.e. the people of Kings Landing being an extention of Cersei). The truth is that Dany's actions kind of make sense if you look at it from that perspective, but the writers/editors did a horrible job of getting that across to the audience. In my opinion it was one of the "worst" episodes of the series. It just felt rushed and out of place from everything that came before it.
Samwell the Slayer, First of His Name, Stalker of White Walkers, Menace of the Thenns, Stealer of Crasters Daughter, Pillager of the Citadel and.. in the end the Hardest of the Tarlys and Stronger than the entire Golden Company. The One True King to the Iron Throne.
I remember when Dany started burning the civilians and I jumped out of my seat and was like "I called it!" I spent the whole episode telling my husband "I told you so." I never felt so vindicated because I had been calling it since season 2. 😂😂😂
It was so obvious to me though I loved Dany & hoped she would wake up. Even at the end if she had not doubled down with Jon in the throne room he would have walked out of there with her & tried to find their way to a better future, together but maybe not romantically. But Dany couldn't accept that.
Everyone decries Dany for attacking and killing civilians after the surrender, and of course the Unsullied and Dothraki would follow her; but so did the Northern troops, despite Jon ordering against it. As Jorrah said way back, "there's a beast inside of every man; it comes out when you put a sword in his hand." A thread throughout Dany's story has been ruling because you are loved or because you are feared. She's been told by everyone this entire time that she would be loved by the people, but she wasn't. She saw everyone around her getting more love than she did, including the one person who had a stronger 'claim' to the Iron Throne than she did. That just leaves her with being feared, and she has Drogon for that. Her burning Kings Landing cements that fear. The last thing to keep in mind is the corrupting influence of power; nobody's immune, not even Dany.
@filmsbylis Trying to claim Dany didn't need to die is crazy. She tortured the masters by crucifying them instead of just killing or imprisoning them. She threatened to burn everyone in Qarth because some of the 13 didn't do what she wanted. She basically tells Jon either you want me romantically & will be dishonorable and lie or you are nothing to me, I never wanted a nephew just a bastard that would never be my equal. You realize Dany ignored & turned away from so many people that have her advice that she ignored? Varys & Tyrion & Jon had been telling her this wasn't the way. She wasn't listening. Varys knew he was dead the second he realized she wasn't a good queen & would always put her desire for control first.
There is no comparison. Olly was against Jon because of his anger & bias towards the wildlings. Their deaths were swift and not vengeful. Dany was mad Varys (& Tyrion & Jon & Jorah & Barristan) told her to not choose fire & blood of she wanted to be different, so when she didn't get blind loyalty she killed Varys for being right (and so she could try to hide the truth about Jon).
I don't believe that Dany became mad out of blue. Since she arrived at Westeros people started to treat her like she didn't deserve respect for all that she have done. She lost her dragon, she lost part of her army trying to not do things in a wrong way and for last she lost her second dragon and her best friend. Westeros will always prefer a man in the throne, it's completely understandable what she did.
Oh so all that warranted her burning "innocent people did it?? 🤣 All she had to do was fly to the Red Keep and burn Cersei down that's it but why burn innocent people to get there... it makes no sense.
@@cassu6 well she didn't though, what did they do her? All she had to do was go to the Red Keep and burn it, instead she starts killing innocents. I like the idea of her going mad but the way it was done in the show was horrendous, it was rushed and didn't have any real build-up to it. It literally made no sense why she should just start burning people at that moment instead of just leaving them and go after Cersei.
The actor who plays Varys is famously NOT PLEASED (to put it lightly) with how the writers chose to have Varys go out. After the finale, you should react to the video of the cast doing a table reading for season 8 and finding out for the first time. When they get to Varys dying he simply puts the script down in disgust and leans back with his arms folded, looking furious.
Everything else that Daenerys did in this episode was understandable, UP UNTIL Burning innocents after she freaking won the war. I absolutely blame the fricking writers for messing up our beloved Queen.
It is so easy to not mess this up. Just make up literally any situation where the only way to kill Cersei is to take out a lot of innocent people too. But they couldn't do it.
Dany had dangerous cracks in her personality as early back as season 5. She was becoming too egotistical. Problem is everybody continued to sip that Season 1- 4 coolade of early Dany. 😂
@@afanofpeanuts7381It still felt wrong. It still felt out of character. You know why? Because hell knows why they decided to shorten the last 2 seasons and there barely was any character development to justify this. And the writing. Oh, how the writing dropped.
@@afanofpeanuts7381don't forget that in season 2 she stood outside the gates of Qarth and threatened to lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.
@@stacyleal5687 Then again, that was only in the show, so more like D&D have been messing around with her (and a lot others) since the beggining for the sake of shock value and to appeal to a wider audience who thinks that's cool
The pain, suffering and anguish of Jaime and Tyrion, the two brothers stuck on two sides of the Civil war was more emotional and more visceral than the best moments of the most critically acclaimed TV shows. Just that goodbye scene alone is is better than 99% of the things on TV.
The main difference between John and Danny is the fact that Danny had actual physical power with her dragons, and she could have used them at anytime, and it took for her to be knocked down to her lowest to finally Snap. That's the best logic I can come up with. But that's the main difference between those 2. She had power and used it where he had power and chose not to use it..
I don't think she snapped. Her first choice was always violence. Violence was the only card she knew how to play without her advisors telling her otherwise. She'd been playing that card her whole life, and winning, murdering innocent people along the way. This time she played and won the hand, but not the game.
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Glad to see the dragons finally take revenge on the ppl of kingslanding
The fallen are avenged 😂
RIP to Jammie's Character Arc
@@Doctor.--mmDany did nothing wrong.
That whole blight of a city needed to be erased
@@drrohanjacob thx you I see a lot of ppl agree but they did her dirty like her being killed for that is not it
@@kingrichard8188 👍
They killed Jamie’s whole arc with one single line “I never really cared about the people” that’s literally a main reason why he killed the mad king to save kingslanding
Exactly
The writing is so bad it almost feels spiteful.
100% agree Jamies' arc was one of the best being this outwardly arrogant guy, but deeply honorable and empathetic and i think it showed the most with Birenne. It just seemed like a giant middle finger to the fans and his character :(
Hated the line but he used again that tone of voice that tells us that he's lying and trying to put up a front.
He is lying to himself, his arc is amazing
This show is the equivalent of running a whole marathon in 1st place and face planting 10 feet away from the finish line and knocking yourself out.
Just like Daenerys
That is the perfect analogical description lol. Like that guy in breaking bad who tripped running away from the bill bur character
But they were going to make Star Wars movies 😛
^Who needs books nowadays in 2023+
That made me crack up
I had originally thought this as well but I have gotten around to reading the books and the more I read the more I’ve realized they fucked up long before season 8. Not including certain events and characters I think fucked up too much. Spoilers
For example Varys in these later seasons feels useless and without purpose this is due to faegon missing from the show, similar things like this happen with many other characters. Dornish plot, northern conspiracy, lady stone heart, Euron being euron, Victorian, cold hands, jeyne pool, rickon, selmey, that’s just from the dome the list goes on and on.People blame George for not finishing the books which I do partly agree with but I don’t believe they would have been able to even make the book ending with all of these inconsistencies.
It's just a bit hilarious the way Cersei scoots away from the battle between the Mountain and the Hound like, "'Scuse me, I'm just gonna go find the ladies room."
"Sandor...it's always nice to see you!"
She was like "Fuck this shit, I'm out"
I would absolutely love an oil painting on my wall of that scene
with that bad mia farrow wig no less. poor lena headey
at least you got some pleasure out of this
Spartan pointing out Pudgey not crying at all of the big character deaths in this one is spot on. It really shows you how fans could feel how rushed things were in these last few episodes
Characters are not characters by this point, they’re just objects used to push the contrived plot forward. I lost all investment in them.
I remember being the exact same way when this episode aired. I just couldn't feel the connection to any of the characters anymore. I didn't cry to any death at all during the last season except Theon's and no other scene touched me. It was such a missed opportunity to be the greatest show in tv history.
Ugh, I wish they either had more episodes and if not, it would have been better to leave it at the Long Night at least
wild to me that someone like hodar ended with a more iconic well written death moment than cersei, Jamie, varvsys, little finger, night king and the Hound....
@@ΓιάννηςΜπανακάκης-ω5εwhat’s the best shows
Drogon must have thought that that was a dinner bell LOL
😂😂😂
He sure wasted a lot of food by burning it all to a crisp.
@@hopemikaelson9223Dragons only eat burnt to ashes meat
All I can say is, he must have filled up on lots of chilies the night before.
@@drrohanjacobYeah ashes must have lots of nutrients.
“Best season ever!” - Emilia Clark 😂😂😂
It's got 2 of the best episodes of the entire show: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (epsiode 2) and The Bells (episode 5). The 3rd and 6th episodes are very good and the 1st and 4th episodes are just ok. Still makes for a good season of GOT in my book.
@@Regenmacher175those are literally 2 of the bottom 5 episodes in this entire show. Everyone knows that. Season 8 absolutely ruined the integrity of the entire show and plot.
@@Hockey1918Fan I don't know that because I disagree with that assessment. Also, I care about more than just the plot LOL. Have a nice day.
Problem is they rushed it
I don’t mind the majority of how the storylines ended it just didn’t make sense for it to happen as fast as it went against all story arcs that they had taken time to develop
D&D messed it up for money and it ended up essentially blacklisting them for years
@@MT-UK LOL no. They worked for 2 years on 6 episodes. They didn't rush anything. Also, most plot points of the final season had been hinted at for seasons already so it just felt natural in hindsight.
Tyrion is officially the tallest Lannister!
Well, I mean there are some other lannisters, sons and grandsons of his fathers cousins and so on👀
well, the right sentence would be Tyrion is officially the tallest main-branch Lannister, because he still has cousins, distant cousins, and so on.
I thought it was funny
@@SG-df9er Not as low as the other Lannisters are-
@@SG-df9ergood one
The Arya foreshadowing actually paid off... Cersei was killed by no one
Nice
Paid of by most stupid way
😅
Come on, it was clearly a faceless brick which did her in
i mean bricks killed her
The entire Golden Company instantly dying in a dragon attack they somehow didn't hear coming is the funniest part of this episode to me. Like they couldn't think of any way for this battle to progress besides just wiping them out in a single scene with no impact whatsoever
That would've taken too long...we needed this thing wrapped up quickly. Some people had Star Wars projects they needed to get started on.
@@Krucifus And those projects are still in the works btw, and then we get a whole Rian Johnson trilogy, according to the savior of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kenedy. Be still my beating heart!
Meanwhile Rhaegal rots at the bottom of the sea lol
@@Krucifus You do know that they worked two years on the last season, its not like they quickly wrapped this up.
@@mattg5791 No, they are not. They ended their involvement with Star Wars in 2019.
The biggest problem of this entire season is not the overall arc of what happened, but how it did. There was not enough buildup for Dany's insanity.
Some bells ring and she goes crazy. What????!!
I never had a problem with her madness. It even makes a sort of sense for her story to go that way. It was just how sudden her turn was.
Fully agree. Assume we'll get the same ending in the books, but they'll actually lay the groundwork for it.
@@DavetheAvatar in show maybe but in books she is hero Tyrione is villain we were suppose to see him turing into monster after his speach in season 4 but that whitewash him he wants to kill his sibling Jamie too Danerys have bigger problems so many men are coming her way she was war in Mereen and betrayer in her court and Harpy wants her dead and she is sick on Dothraki Sea so she has no time to go mad and her final fate in one the wall or on the North
@@DavetheAvatar That's exactly what the original comment said haha
Spartan: "I'm waiting for a rock to fall on them to be honest."
And then his face 10 minutes later when his joke turned into how Jamie & Cersi actually die... The way I CACKLED 😂
What a criminally anti-climactic death.
Just because it's anticlimactic doesn't mean it's bad. I don't understand what problem people have with Cersei's death. She dies buried by the fortress she believed was the safest place, the place where the entire series has been protected since season 1. It's poetic. And her only consolation is dying in Jaime's arms. It's the best and only possible ending for them. What did people expect? Being eaten by Drogon? Would that have been more spectacular and would have made more sense? I can understand the criticism for the rushed pace of the ending, but the fate of each character is the most coherent.
She was supposed to be strangled by the valonqar
@@DigitalOverride318which (probably) will be Jamie… Since I doubt it’ll be Tyrion… but how it happens is definitely up for debate
Satisfaction level = 0 🙃😂😂
@@alejandroroldanortega819that’s lame as hell she was the most evil in the show she deserved to be killed directly by a main character
57:22 if you are confused about this, imagined the cast when they got their scripts. Watch the table read, it's painful. And then, they have to say positive things while promoting the premieres but you can see in their eyes and gestures they were not satisfied.
BEST SEASON EVAH
Yes I saw the table reading. The one who played Varys was so pissed about his death. He deserved better.
@@BerniceHaydenwhy?plenty of characters die in this.most dont live as long as him making dumb decisions like him.
@@williamshelton4318 I guess Varys just forgot that treasoners get executed.
Dude, don't try to engage in mindreading. You don't know what those people thought or why they thought what they thought. Just don't even try to project your feelings onto people who worked on this show....maybe act like an adult instead.
The Show Runners were offered multiple seasons to finish the show but declined and wanted to end to show as quickly as possible cause they'd gotten a contract for a fancy new Star Wars show that they wanted To make, so they completly rushed the shows ending. After the incredible backlash for the shows bad ending they lost their contracts to make the new Star Wars show.
Tell DD it was us (fans). There careers are shit now and probably will live off there royalties form this show until they die or they go broke
Dracarys
Small justice, but justice nontheless.
Just 10 episode for two seasons be enough.for this story
Their ambition outweighed their talent
Now you can understand why there was such disappointment with how things ended😢
And the next episode is no better.
meh this is "ok" its the next episode that imo really turned everyone off, besides the night king thing. Especially who is named what.
@@MikeTythonLLCthe next episode is a comedy
@@MikeTythonLLCThe next episode is 100x worse
Nah this episode is pretty good all things considered. It makes total sense even if everything happens quite accelerated
The Greyjoy faction is one of the biggest differences from the books. The Iron Fleet is actually led by a man named Victarion Greyjoy, which is Balon and Euron's brother. And currently in the books he is actually on his way to join his fleet up with Daenerys.
And also, this is how you guys feel after watching the show for 8 months or so. Imagine being invested in this for nearly a decade, and then this is how it all ends. I can tell you that it was fucking horror xP
Right waiting for a new season to come out every time hopefully they’ll understand with house of the dragon a little bit
@@mermaidreviews4693 Early seasons of GoT were on a whole nother level than HotD so far, but yeah. Remember how it was like to just have to wait a whole year after Jon Snow was killed? A whole year between every season where you could talk and speculate on what came next? Good times, but it makes the conclusion so much worse.
I didn't start GoT until season 3 premiere, but have watched each new season every year since
The amount of years I've spent loving this series just came crashing down so hard and it truly did feel like such a waste of time at the end of it all
Notice how in the start a servant came back to Varys to tell him Dany wasn’t eating or drinking anything, and Varys said they will keep trying. He was trying to poison her so she’d be dead by the time the letters got to where they were going.
Can you imagine the Varys from season 1 being so obvious, talking to the poisoner directly right inside his own chambers?
An outlandish stretch supported by no facts whatsoever
@@JonathanGonzalez-jz4td People saying it are not supportive facts.
@@magicbrownie1357 That scene itself where the servant said it to Varys, was a confirmation he’s trying to poison her. What else could it be?
@@Nattiie Anything else, like: Dany's losing her grip on reality for one. Varys was never a murderer or a killer. Not in his character's nature.
Say what you want about Cersei but Lena’s performance in her last moments were so well acted
One of the best things in GoT was how well acted every character was, but especially the bad guys. Lena Headey, Jack Gleeson, Iwan Rheon especially made characters so utterly hateable, but at the same time human and believable. Absolutely flawless performances.
Yes I was impressed with Lena Headey's acting throughout the whole series. She was perfect for that role / character !
they wont say anything cause they have Cersei Derangement Syndrome
@@skurinski actor and role are 2 different things. you can like perforance and hate the role.
I personally love Cersei… the villains are always so much more entertaining…. I also like the relationship with Jaime and Cersei. Jaime said he wanted to die in the woman he loves arms and he did, regardless if anyone agrees with his choice he has loved Cersei his whole life and even though I’m sure he had love for Brienne he loves Cersei more. Incest aside the coming into the world together leaving it together is kinda beautiful.
Remember Dany's vision when she goes to the iron throne full of falling dust and then she goes to Drogo and her son in heaven? That was forshadowing this episode
In the book it’s different she sees:
A beautiful, naked woman being ravished by four little men who resemble the dwarf servitor.
A feast of slaughtered corpses holding cups, spoons, and food, with a dead man with a wolf's head sitting on a throne wearing an iron crown, apparently foreshadowing the Red Wedding.
Daenerys's childhood house with the red door in Braavos, along with Ser Willem Darry.
A throne room with dragon skulls on the walls where a king resembling Aerys II Targaryen sits on a barbed throne and appears to give the order to burn the Red Keep during the Sack of King's Landing.
A room where a silver-haired man (presumably Rhaegar Targaryen) is with a woman and a baby. The man names his son Aegon, says the child is "the prince that was promised", then plays a harp.
A "splendor of wizards" who falsely claim to be the Undying of Qarth and offer to teach Daenerys the secret speech of dragonkind.
After reaching the gloomy chamber of the Undying Ones, Daenerys is also shown:[3]
The death of her brother, Viserys Targaryen.
A tall lord with copper-skin and silver-gold hair beneath a banner of a fiery stallion, with a burning city in the background (this may be a glimpse at what Rhaego's future would have been).
A dying prince (likely Rhaegar Targaryen) mutters a woman's name with his last breath, rubies flying from his chest.
A blue-eyed king who casts no shadow (possibly Stannis Baratheon) raises a red sword in his hand.
A cloth dragon sways on poles amidst a cheering crowd.
A great stone beast takes wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadows.
Daenerys's silver trots through grass to a darkling stream under a sea of stars.
A corpse standing at the prow of a ship with bright eyes and grey smiling lips (possibly a reference to greyscale or a Greyjoy)
A blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice, filling the air with sweetness (this could indicate Jon Snow's true parentage and potential kinship to Daenerys).
Boneless, terrible shadows whirl inside a tent.
A little girl (likely Daenerys) runs barefoot toward a big house with a red door.
Mirri Maz Duur's death by pyre.
The corpse of the wineseller who had attempted to poison Daenerys being dragged behind her silver.
A white lion running through tall grass.
Naked crones emerging from a great lake beneath the Mother of Mountains to kneel before Daenerys.
Ten thousand slaves crying "Mother!" as Daenerys rides past on her silver.
Like to think she went home to Drogo, after Jon killed her
@@ACinemafanatic That's cool, but this is not the books. The show can only pay off what it has set up.
Rest In Peace, Sandor Clegane! The Stark Girls owe you a lot!
@@SG-df9er that was the whole point. Some characters are tragic from start to finish, and that's perfectly fine. He had one goal his entire life and that was to kill his brother. His obsession with that goal was his ruin, it kept him from having a happy life and it took his life in the process. In the end he still had the beautiful moment of saving Arya from having the same fate. She would stay obsessed her entire life until her list of names was empty, but Sandor made her see what that did to him. Yes, the ending of the show is trash. Yes, Cleganebowl was fan service. But also yes, it made sense and was glorious.
@@SG-df9er Not really pointless when you consider Arya was willing to go down the same path of blind vengeance. I honestly get the choice he made to dedicate himself to it but he still a good man, he saved her through that example.
The dog that protected the wolfs
CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED!
Varys: Nothing? Girl: She won’t eat. Varys: We’ll try again at supper. Girl: I think they’re watching me. Varys: with great risk comes great reward!
Varys was trying to poison Dany with the help of his little bird at the beginning of the episode
Too bad dany's new diet thwarted him😂.
Master of wispers, everyone😂
Funny how they cut that out, ain't it.
Yup. These two didNt figure it out. Varys tried to assassinate her
I wondered after this scene, did Varys also try to poison Aerys II (the Mad King), and if so (conspiracy theory) did he try and poison them both with lead, this would explain their madness, and how ironic would it be if the whole war from Aerys II to now was Varys's fault.
I like the idea of Daenerys turning tyrant. There has been hints. But the execution was lacking.
Same
Same... i saw it several times in previous seasons. I get her reason for paranoia
It coulda worked, they rushed it to hell though.
For her being ruthless yes, not for her killing countless innocent people. That is the opposite of what she was about the entire show
Yeah. They should have gone with more episodes on how she slowly loses her mind. For 7 seasons they made sure to show us on how "strong" her character is.... then it's all of sudden it's all gone within 2-3 episodes. 😂 Same with Jaime's, all that character development for nothing.
You might have missed that Varys tried to poison Dany. His sent a "little bird" to the kitchens and she reported that Dany wouldn't eat. Also Jon's claim is really "better" only because he is the last male descendent, this resentment is something explored more fully in HOD. If they didn't rush the last season, the paranoia of danger from all quarters and the death of Missandei may have made her "breaking" more understandable.
It's amazing how in just 10 episodes, I felt more for Rhaenyra than I ever did for Dany in 8 seasons.
Not only because he is a man (although this is actually a huge advantage over Dany), but also because he is the son of Rhaegar, and Rhaegar was the heir to the throne, so after his death, his children are the most worthy contenders.
@@wferdertt9434the mad king made viserys his heir before he died
Please can you explain to me why Varys suddenly wanted to kill Dany? End of S6 he was off recruiting people to his clause and then next thing I knew he was betraying Dany and then convinced Tyrion to do so as well. Tyrion the one who bent the knee when she named him Hand of the Queen. Was Tyrion really so put out that she didn't follow his advice as obediently after he was wrong a few time? The show made no sense.
@@bereasonable8018 bad and rushed writing. So disappointing
" A Targeryen alone in the world is a terrible thing" -Master Aemon
"A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and *suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth* "
Daemon Targaryen's ghost is so proud of Dany here 😂
Even he wouldnt be a fucking stupid as Dany was here.
Yup.
She has finally avenged her family.
Taken revenge on the decedent's of those who betrayed her family and dragons
Matt Smith when asked about how his chatacter would react: "I think he'd be right up there on the dragon with her."
@@hopemikaelson9223Yup
Doesnt Daemon love his Targaryen history? Destroying Kingslanding seems like destroying Targaryen history.
It would have made sense for her to snap and burn the red keep with Cersei...there is absolutely no reason for her to burn random civilians like a maniac
Right? And they could have had it where Cersei had wildfire hidden around the city so when Dany hit the red keep that caused the city to burn. One final middle finger from Cersei and still blame on Dany to complicate things
Let's say you DO WANT to make a heel turn with Dany. Everything you needed was already there! It just wasn't used!
Imagine an episode between this one and the last one:
Dany says to Jon, "I am in love with you." Jon responds, "You are me Queen." Dany, "Nothing more?" Jon, "I don't know what you want me to say."
You could show Dany crying and going into a deep depression for the episode.
Even more, you can have her talk about Mereen and when she showed the people mercy, love, and justice they revolted against her and tried to kill her.
And that she won't make that mistake again. Learning the wrong lesson.
It was all there, all the story point were there to turn Dany into a heel.
I honestly wouldn’t have minded it if it was off rip carnage but the way they did it makes it so trash her doing it after the bell makes 0 sense
it's called bad writing
The Iron Throne is the Ring in this world. Everyone who wanted it was corrupted by it. And it was building in Dany since the second season.
I think this season could have been handled better in terms of timing/pacing. But as for WHAT happened? She abused power from really early on and it kept building.
I think our problem is that we all kept excusing things like death sentences, crucifixions, etc. because we liked her and believe in the myth of redemptive violence.
I think the point of George R. R. Martin’s story is precisely that violence and the desire for power inevitably corrupts.
That we ever rooted for Dany just reveals how much we’re implicated in and excuse the violence of our own world.
jon and varys just casually talking about treason on the beach doesn't get enough criticism. like seriously what the hell, in broad daylight with people around.
Yes, Varys is more smart than that
@araceli2827 Varys knew the second he made a choice away from Dany his life was over.
Arya: “Sandor….Thank you.”
Love this moment. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call the Hound by his first name.
Are you mad? Don’t they call him by his name a couple of times lol 😂
@@Crazy-pl1lo They call him Clegane most of the time
@@ReneReacts well they actually mostly call him dog more then anything of course but I mean come on stop trying to justify bad writing 😂
@@Crazy-pl1lo that doesn't have anything to do with the first comment, sounds like you're a bit fixated with some sort of idea and you're just looking for reasons to bring up bad writting in an entirely unrelated topic.
@@ReneReactsI'm pretty sure he hates the name Clegane more than the others as well though
Varys was plotting to kill Danny and supplant her with Jon- she had no choice but to execute him. She’s also right that Jon was the one who did tell people she didn’t want to know. The only other way this could’ve possibly ended would be for Danny to give up all her power, marry Jon, and be his baby maker. That’s the exact opposite of her entire life goals.
Say it louder for the people in the back!!!
you ate
It's completely out of character for Tyrion to turn in Varys. Tyrion wouldn't do that knowing she would kill Varys.
Dany should have found out another way. And then confronted Tyrion to see if he knew and didn't tell her.
This would have made Tyrion ALSO a betrayer! And her threatening him understandable!
Here Tyrion shows complete loyalty, and she threatens him?
Tyrion trusted Varys with a secret and then betrays him over that save secret?
Would have made more sense if Dany had Varys room searched because more and more people were learning about Jon being true heir.
Killing Varys was justified I won't disagree, but your second point falls apart as the show has already mentioned at this point. Danny is stronger willed than Jon and would be able to control him in anyway she saw fit. He worshipped her and wouldn't have usurped power from her. They would have both sat on the thrown with Jon being the lesser not Dany. Jon was more well loved and that made her jealous, but she would have done anything she wanted and he would stand by and watch happy to be with her. The writing was just bad about this being what set her off and made her paranoid. She easily controlled Jon as long as she didn't go against his adopted family directly she would have been fine.
The only thing that makes sense for her to attack Kingslanding the way she did was for it to be about rage. I'd argue though that was out of character for her to take her anger out on the average people. Maybe if they'd given her descent into madness longer it would have made sense, but as it stands she is in the East loves helping the little man even when it puts great risk to herself, her friends, and her dragons, goes to the West and instantly becomes a murdering monster because she lost a few friends and her "babies" dragons.
Who cares if she didn't want Jon to tell. It was the truth, it was his story to tell. He had every right to tell. She was just too threatened by the TRUTH and that was her downfall. If you can't handle the truth and find a way to be the Queen despite the truth then you don't deserve the throne.
I love how the Mountain pushed the Hound into the fire as children, so poetic then that the Hound pushed the Mountain into the fire to finish it.
comments like this are making the word "poetic" lose its meaning
yeah too bad he was already a zombie and wasn't really the same person.
I thought the way the mountain and the hound ended was actually the most poetic part of the whole ending. It would have been cool to see the hound survive... But it was kind of cool to see them go out together like that.
fan service
What The Hound vs The Mountain was a meme for years 😂
cleganebowl 😂 a real good ending for his character tho would have been to let go of his hate and finally accept knighthood as a kingsguard in the finale
would've been cool if it was a normal game of thrones fight (like the hound vs brienne) and not some weird dark souis level
It would've been poetic and cool if it wasn't for the shit ending to their fight, they just die together in fire...........like, really.
And there was no great emotional conflict or anything during their fight, Hound has a conscience and The Mountain doesnt.
Should've played with that aspect to give more dynamic to the fight than just the bland fan service we got.
The fight has no replay value to me.
The Mountain vs Oberyn, now that's a fight with replay value
So err, Varys was trying to kill Dany at the start at the episode. He was trying to poison her, Dany suspected though and that's why she wasn't eating.
Pretty sure this is still gonna be her story arch in the books.
i like this point of view, but theres not even 1 hint in this episode, u just made that up lol
@@ezrealxshsh5460 Nope
Varys literally trying to poison his Queen and commiting treason by pledging his aliegence to Jon.
Them: 😁😁😁
@@Itsunclegabby such a good argument lmao. Dany defenders be like:
Danny has been brutal but never cruel. She went from saving the world from white walkers, to killing innocents in the span of one episode. Her character was assassinated, and her arc wasn’t expanded enough for this quick turn.
Shes been cruel too
You DID see her burn a woman to death on her husband's funeral pyre and nail hundreds of people to crosses, right? Just because the deserved it doesn't mean her doing it isn't acting cruelly.
@@AtheistPilgrim have you ever heard of context? Arya brutally murdered two people by slitting their throats. Sansa fed a man to dogs and smiled while waking away. Jon beheaded a man who was crying and begging for mercy. Arya killed a hundred men and baked them into a pie and fed them to their father.
You missed a lot if you think this.
@@AtheistPilgrim Jon killed a child
I just hate that this season always CUTS AWAY whenever it's a BIG reaction that we've all been waiting a LONG time to see, and has MAJOR implications on how the story is told going forward... it's like the mentality is: "well that's HARD to do... so we're just not doing it"
Jon tells his siblings about his parentage. CUT AWAY.
Sansa tells Tyrion about Jon's parents. CUT AWAY.
@@Golladan Major characters NOT being killed by Whites. CUT AWAY.
Every. Single. Time.
Let's shoot the Long Night in the dark so we can fudge the effects so that no one can see what we did to save $$$! We're brilliant! Star Wars, here we come! (Not hating on the Long Night, the episode was phenomenal.)
@@Golladan Viewers discovering what an ellipsis is. We also don't see Varys' reaction when Tyrion tells him. There is no need to see each character's reaction to that secret. We see Jon's reaction when Sam told him. And we see Daenerys' reaction when Jon tells her. That is, they show us the reactions of the two most important characters involved.
they've obviously seen the last episode by the time this posted so this isn't a spoiler for them but WOW Pudgey calling Bran being king was impressive!!!!
That was crazy!
Yep she nailed it I just hope she doesn’t change her mind and say “it doesn’t make sense” like most people did when it actually happens in the finale. Bran was the best man for the job, Jon was far too naive to rule Westeros and he didn’t want to either
@@theblues8840 I feel like that is the problem with a lot of peoples complaints...They think it sucks because the character didn't do what they wanted/expected them to do. Jon belongs in the North, he doesn't belong as King...Dany was hot headed killing and threatening people for 8 seasons but they're shocked when she destroys Kings Landing....
@@Murder_34The problem is not that Bran was made king per se. It makes NO SENSE that he says that he came all the way to become king after saying the previous episodes that he wasn't a man, he doesn't feel anymore, that he lives in the past and that he'd become something else (aka the 3 eyed raven).
@@natidel81 It was a front. He was pretending to be spazzed out to escape Dany's attention. Had he said he was the heir to Winterfell, he'd be under Dany's radar instantly.
Believe me. I saw more of Golden Company in the trailers than the episodes!!😂
Yes!! 🤣🤣🤣
The histories and lore they reacted to a couple weeks ago: the golden company is legendary, has never been beaten, and will only return to Westeros under specific circumstances
The Bells: blonde horse guy stands, stares, go boom
When Jamie left Kings Landing it started snowing. Winter finally came. Then when the battle hits, the Golden Company are standing in a desert like they're in Dorne or something. Absolute trash design and effort in attention to detail.
@@themetalpig7613 The wasteland at the gate where they killed Missandei will always make me crack up. I specifically recall twitter live reactions debating if that scene was even happening at Kingslanding 😅
I just thought they enlisted the Flash and not the Golden Company.
Be assured Spartan the way you feel about this episode, and the ending of the entire series is what 90% of fans feel....in summary WTF hahaha.
I think 90% is a little high. It’s more 80/20.
@@lunagalI think the 10% is just super vocal
The only source we have is THR poll and it showed mayority of audiences actually liked the ending.
@@orton305 And other hilarious jokes you can tell yourself
@@BhBc8f8 Won't bother with you. A Google search is enough to prove my point. S8 haters are on the same level as Snyder trolls or TLJ haters.
"As long as she doesn't kill the innocent."
The innocent: 🔥💀🔥
"Varys just proclaimed someone else as the king" - that's the textbook example for betrayal.
who snitched on him though?
It’s a little different. Simply proclaiming some pretender / rebel who is in truth a false king is treason. Jon is not a false king. By all the laws, Jon comes before Dany in the line of succession as the true born son of Rhaegar. Technically Daenerys is committing treason by continuing to call herself queen of the seven kingdoms after discovering that the lord of her house and her rightful king is alive and well.
I would say the only treason Varys committed was conniving behind her back after he swore to her that he would look in her in the face and tell her how he believed she was failing as a queen
@@warpedwhimsical your opinion depends on the existence of rightfulness in leading a feudal serfdom-based society, and also on social norms and rules that have been open to interpretation and challenged even by people from that world and time.
@@kenok1225While it is true that lines of succession were often somewhat cloudy in IRL Medieval Europe, Westeros is not Merovingian France. In Universe, the Targaryens established a strict law of succession following the Dance of Dragons, in an effort to prevent any future civil wars. Any attempt to press a Targaryen claim on the Iron Throne that does not adhere to the law of succession that existed between the end of the Dance of Dragons and the end of Robert's Rebellion is absolutely illegitimate.
That law of succession operated according to the rule of what we would, in our world, call Semi-Salic primogeniture. Now, even if it were gender-equal primogeniture, the claim of the older child supercedes the claims of their younger siblings, and the claim of the older child is passed on to their own children upon their death, to the effect that the eldest surviving child of the eldest child of a King would come before that King's younger children in the line of succession. So, starting out, Jon, as the only surviving child of Rhaegar Targaryen, incontrovertibly comes before Daenerys in the established line of succession.
But, to add to that, Westeros did not have gender-equal primogeniture. Under the Semi-Salic law, a female heir cannot inherit whatsoever if there are any male-line male members of the royal line who are living. If there is any living male-line descendant of Aegon I who has a penis and is not at that time a member of either the Order of Maesters, the Night's Watch, or the King's Guard, Daenerys has no right to the Targaryen claim on the Iron Throne. Jon's very existence disqualifies her from pressing that claim at all.
@@troythompson1768 that doesn't prevent me from seizing power, proclaiming myself the king, and making my own rules, that's how the Targaryen dynasty was founded too.
There is no way that Pudgey guesses Bran to be on the throne without it being spoiled beforehand
Yeah…bc it’s so unbelievably stupid. He just said he can never be lord of anything like less than a season ago.
@@Wraiven22he's an all-knowing omnipotent being, has it occurred to you perhaps he lied and said that to get his desired outcome? Why do you take him at face value
@@DrewDragoon so essentially he’s suddenly a power hungry psychopath who lies to people around him to get power? Still don’t like it and find it stupid lol
Not gonna lie I laughed my ass off when Ramsay and his sausage popped up 😂
Same here, I remember when I watched that scene for the first time, I rewinded a dozen times to where he said _Pork sausage_ with that weird inflection. It's absolutely hilarious, and it was the time I started enjoying the character of Ramsay. Of course he was a psychopath of the worst sort, a horrible sadist ... but he gave a lot to the show. You need someone to hate, right?
Sad that Jon's lines are now just "shes my Queen. I dont want it" what a sad finish for a character that was amazing until S6 started
But who has a better story than Bra-
I don wan it
And Cersei just stands in a window sipping wine. So sad. Uninspired writing.
💯
She is McQueen!
u can feel it for any other char... GRRM left the set be4 S6
Spartan pointing out that Pudgey never got emotional once during the whole episode is a god damn good measuring stick on how wack this episode was! I'm pretty sure she got emotional during every episode up to s7 XD
yep
Getting emotional means you aren't thinking clearly & emotion is controlling your logic. When faced with reality & the truth you should be pretty sober in your reaction when you hear it.
Varys death did make sense varys literally tired to kill her twice before this and danny did tell him if he ever tried to conspire behind her back she would excute him and she did
The main issue was how stupid the writers made Varys.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 This brings to mind Conleth Hill's reaction during the script reading.
He literally went to her & told her how he felt, but she wouldn't listen.
@@d3l3tes00n he was trying to poison her in this exact same episode!!! Are you insane? Kill or be killed.
@@AK-pw3oq Same thing with Baelish. These two became super-dumb
“Nah, Dani is done. Throw her in the bin.” 😂😂😂 The Hound was my favorite character. That scene between Arya and him broke me. Also had the same reaction to Jamie and Cersai. They deserved a better death!
I just remember watching this and just wanting it to end. It felt like the episode went on forever.
YESS ME TOO
That's the point. It's not fun when people with power abuse their power, especially when it's people you previously thought were above that sort of thing. Turns out, the show wanted to hammer that point home by having Dany's betrayal of the audience's trust in her actually feel like a proper betrayal.
She took the city so easy and with only 1 dragon! If she took Olenna's advice when she first arrived to "Be a dragon." Dany wanted to take King's Landing! Things would've gone differently. She went the safe route instead of showing Fire and Blood. When the bells were ringing, I think she realized how fast and easy it was and how much she lost listening to Tyrion. She lost everything! She snapped! Her mindset was set on fear after talking with Jon. My reaction was the same as Spartan 😂 I couldn't connect with how fast things happened.
The deadly scorpion operators just kinda forgot how to use them, apparently.
if that happened, Varys still assassinates her. he knows that taking king's landing is gonna result in thousands of innocent people dying.
Don’t forget that Jon’s reaction to Dany is also affected by learning she is his Aunt. He is very straight laced and was raised by Ned stark. You don’t have sex with your aunt, even if you’re in love with her.
What why Ned's parent where uncle and niece in westeros only sibling pairings are seen as incestuous
I don't buy it. It's not like an aunt that you knew all your life. Imagine if you are with Marlilyn Monroe and suddenly you learn that she's your aunt. You're not gonna go "I will stop having sex with her right now!" lol
I wish he have said that to her: you are my aunt, I can't continue doing this. But no, he behave like a cat.
If that was actually the case then the writers did a horrible job at showing that.
@@Mike90317That's what pissed me off too. There was no communication. Everytime Dany tried to get affectionate with Jon he would act like a child ( like eeeeuuuw I dont like girls) instead of just sitting down talking to her but no no we just keep getting " you are my Queen " just fucking dumb in my opinion
Emilia Clarke performance in this especially at Dragonstone is so perfect. Let it be fear.
Yeah, ironically this was her best acting in the show.
I like Kit Harrington's performance in this and the last episode too. He just looks broken and troubled throughout, and knows inside there's only one thing that can end it.
@@Hero_Of_Oldwdym b ironically?
@@Aydan2108 ironically, because the script and story was so bad.
The performance as great but Dany couldn't accept that she wasn't going to get what she wanted just because of bloodline or dragon fire. Both have no ties to true love & loyalty.
Jaimie: "I never really cared about the people" was such a writing sin....
This entire episode was
"Much" is a key word here. And there's truth to it. He was never a saint. He never went out of his way to protect innocent people except in a few instances where he knew them personally or otherwise gained benefit from it. He has always been arrogant and happy with being the rich elite. And yet at the same time he's always wanted to live up to certain ideals and been conflicted about being a bad guy, and this is him trying to convince himself that the bad guy is his true nature just so he'll feel better about his inability to let go of his addiction to Cersei.
what? are you sure you watched the same got as me?@@SelvesteSand
Jaime lies to himself and the audience all the time. Just because he said it doesn't mean it's true.
I think Jon went off her after learning she was his aunt - he was saying he’s loves her because she’s family
I think he still loves and desires her romantically, that's part of his torment. He won't act on it because he was raised a Stark, not a Targaryen, and he finds incest taboo. Daenerys, raised expecting to marry her brother, has no such qualms of course.
At this point Jon wants nothing to do with her but knows he has to say whatever he can to keep her from destroying the world
@@Silver_Owlbut they messed it up, in the books targs are the only ones who marry siblings, but the starks,lannisters, and a ton of other houses do it. neds parents were cousins and tywins wife was his cousin
i dont agree with this at all lmao. He said he loved her cause he ROMANTICALLY loves her not because he finally learned shes family lmao. Hes conflicted and doesnt want to take it further because she is family but that doesnt mean the feelings just went away. He had a passionate kiss with her even if he pulled back after 3 seconds because he loves her then conflicted reminded himself oh wait I shouldnt do this.
@@Silver_Owl that’s where the writers went stupid. His Targaryen side grandparents are brother and sister and his Stark side grandparents are cousins. They tried to make it taboo by applying real standards to Westeros that didn’t apply.
but now surely they are gonna fix what just happened in the next episode and really focus on jons heritage
Yep, all moving towards a glorious ending which will make this episode make sense.
Hahaha
We actually discover who the true villain of the series was.
Kill the boy Jon Snow and let the man be born!
The Koala face really goes with your hopeful words 😂
"We don't know what to say" was my exact same thought when I watched season 8 for the first time 😅
love the profile picture, i remember everyone had this i miss this era XD
@@azealiabanks5969 Thank you! Emilia gave us lots of great memes over the years. Always loved how expressive she is
Imo Emilia Clarke's performance is the main reason this turn is believable. She's doing a lot to fill things in with the bullet point nature of her story arc this season. Think it was such a mistake to not show her face after her decision in this episode and not until her speech in the next episode. Let her performance show us the complicated feelings this would create instead of the 'she IS the dragon' villian turn.
Yeah she made it believable it she didn’t know it was gonna happen fans said when the episode aired she was distraught because in the original script she only burned the red keep but it accidentally caused a wildfire outbreak to start due to Cersei planting it that’s why Cersei closed the gates cause she was willing to sacrifice the people
You literally see her 'decision' as she readies herself to fly Drogon. And not showing Dany's face is a purposeful stylistic choice. The camera transfers from Dany's perspective to the innocent victim's perspective the moment she goes rogue.
@@SerbAtheistit wasn’t purposeful don’t show her face in this scene, because they didn’t filmed it. They wanted the wildfire to explode kingslanding, not Drogon and Dany, but they changed it in the pos production. Emilia Clarke wasn’t even warned about it
@@daniel_black7264 Dumbest conspiracy theory in history. Literally every single scene of civilians being killed is consistent with an air attack.
You may be in the minority if you considered the turn 'believable'.
As a Daenerys die hard, this act doesn’t have any justification, what is so abysmal and insulting is how the last season completely destroys not only her story, but Jon’s and also the real climactic ending of what the long night was supposed to be.
Well said
It’s been 4 years at this point and I am still not over it 😢
At least HotD rekindled my love for the asoiaf-world
@@ziva9266 sammmme
Facts, like the way Jon was the archetypal hero, had a strange connection to the whitewalkers (all his interactions with the night king always felt like they meant to lead up to something, likely stark/bloodline related). Then NONE of that mattered in the end 😂 Jon's involvement in s8 had nothing to do with the end of the long night, nothing to do with defeating Cersei, and in the end HIS PARENTAGE DIDN'T EVEN MATTER AT ALL!!! Nothing that happened up to the point he was sent north of the wall reflected and significance to R+L=J, being trueborn blood of the dragon, etc. You really have to laugh...
Like I love Dany and seeing her get botched especially from how she was in the books was sad. But ppl often forget the secondary botching of Jon, reduced to effectively a satellite character in what should've been a huge season for him. S7&especially 8 scripts feel like they were generated by AI.
@@CASantos faaaacts, and it’s somewhat deliciously ironic is Jon is gonna be more ruthless in the books further down
It's still funny to me how Spartan's judgment can at times be clouded by his love for Jon and hatred towards Cersei.
Dany killing Varys was totally justified. Terrible writing but from the events leading up to it, IT MAKES SENSE.
He may understand the character but he doesn't understand the GAME THAT'S BEEN PLAYED
@kaysqrd2194 i agree with you 💯
I just hate how unsubtle they wrote Varys, Master of Whispers. "Hey Jon, would you like to commit some TREASON? I'm not digging this Dany chick anymore, how about some TREASON? I'm just trying to get some TREASON going up in here if anyone wants to join in."
It's confusing how he doesn't understand that trying to usurp Dany with Jon is literally treason
Wasnt Varys literally trying to poison Dany at the start? like i love Varys but it would be ridiculous to expect someone to keep him alive at that point. I think a lot of her decisions werent entirely wrong. Tyrion also kept failing her for his sister.
Just binged all your GoT reactions and wanted to thank you for breathing back life into this rewatch. I don’t know how many times I’ve watched this series but watching it through you guys’ eyes brought back the magic through emotion (Pudgey) and passion (Spartan). Thanks for being such good sports. One more episode to go!
❤️❤️
being a Dany stan be like:
50% hating it cause it didn't make sense
and yet 50% loving it cause she served
My only defence for Dany, she no longer has Missandei, Jorah, Selmy, and even Daario, who keeps her grounded and her power in check. Greyworm is still just a soldier, who never gave her political advice. And Tyrion kept failing her with his counsel. But more to the issue here, it was never about Dany, it was how badly the writing this season has been. Don't blame the Dany, blame the writing.
Blame the writing and logical military strategy. Like come on you go with dragons as air support for your navy to dorne to get those forces and then attack KL instead sending your fleet to Castlely Rock and losing your Navy against a night raid of Euron
her snapping is been forshadowed alot throughout the series.
Her power was never kept in check, she was always a narcissist who felt entitled to supreme power, and brutally violent to those who challenged her, it's just for a long time the show cleverly obscured that by making all of her enemies terrible people too.
@@styot Cleverly? Nahhh. Her demise was ultimately fine, they just didn't write it very well. At all lol
I blame George R.R. Martin for not finishing the books
even If she got mad!! she could just burn the red keep! What’s the point of destroying a place you want to rule? she didn’t break the wheel, she freaking burned the whole wheel 😂
Edit: About what happened to Varys, seems like everyone forgot that Daeny once said to Varys “If you ever betray me, I will burn you alive.” And Varys replied, “Couldn’t expect anything else from mother of the dragons.”
I that point Dani just said “**** it” BURN THEM ALL!
@@ZoidschicaYa, doesn't make any sense. The writers were probably given her ending, but they didn't give her nearly enough time to get there.
The funny thing was that was her goal in S7. When the Tyrells, the Greyjoys and the Martells were decimated, she wanted to fly her dragons to storm the Red Keep. The Red Keep, mind you, not King's Landing.
She's enacting collective punishment on the city for not turning on Cersei. She indicates her intention in her discussion with Tyrion earlier. Whether she starts with burning down the Red Keep or not does not really make a difference to her, since she has decided that the whole city must pay for Cersei's actions. It's not difficult to understand.
@@Regenmacher175that would make sense if Dany acted like an angry little silly child the whole show, but she didn't act that way before. King's Landing isn't a slave city, it's not Mereen or Yunkai, the situations are different. King's Ladning population are not slaves, they have always supported whatever king was on the throne, wether is a Targaryen, a Baratheon or a Lannister. Even then, if they don't like the king they protest as we seen before. So nothing of this Dany's arc change makes sense, at least they way it was done.
Such an anticlimactic way for one of the best shows in history to end. 😢
GRRM has admitted he wanted an anticlimactic ending inspired by the Scouring of the Shire. But the watchers didn't like it so perhaps he's now stuck.
Conccluding episodes are always anti-climatic. The second half of a story is building climax, and third, final, is releasing tension. That is just how stories go.
However, I agree, there this SINGLE episode felt off.
I think what people really wanted was for Cersei to be captured alive. And the option was there with the dinghy and Jamie.
They could have been caught trying to escape.
Great ending. Makes perfect sense.
@@jucor981 I wouldn't really mind if it is anticlimatic. The problem in my opinion is how it was executed in the show. Everything happening all at once at the same time, and bad writing along the way.
@@thinkhector Tell that to the Expanse, Black Sails, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Agents of Shield, Steins Gate, ATLA, or literally any other goated tv shows out there. This was objectively badly written
I’ve argued ever since the show premiered that Danni’s nature was revealed early and often. In season one episode ten she pledges to her followers that those who harm then will die screaming. From that point on her first choice is to kill betrayers, slavers and people who harm those she protects. Her advisors talked her down: burning down the slave cities after their revolts, crucifying the Masters and denying them burial, feeding them to the dragons as revenge for killing Selme and wounding Grey Worm, burning the defiant prisoners after the battle of the train, etc. She listened to advisors often and curbed her initial desire, but by the Bells her advisors were all dead, Tyrion was betraying her, Jon had told Sansa his secret and she had spread it just as Danni warned, and finally Jon had distanced himself. She was a Dragon Alone.
exactly
Yep it was all there, but in all honesty they should of taken a bit more time in the show, but if you watch the behind the scenes of season 8 you can tell Dan and Dave were just done, the show became it's own worst enemy. But still I don't get angry, it was still an amazing watch.
Yes. But she was never ready to kill innocents
Whether it was in the show or not doesn't matter. The army of King's Landing had laid down their arms. The CITIZENS of King's Landing are innocent. There were no more combatants against her, all she had to do was put fire to the Red Keep.
That it would happen, of that I have no doubt. It was clear Dany had evil inside her.
But the way it was SHOWN was done extremely poorly. If the army of King's Landing hadn't laid down their arms and she burned the entire city, at least then there'd be some sense to her actions.
@@Noclaf555 They wanted to abandon GoT in favour for their supposed Star Wars contracts. Which is why they cut the series shorter and HBO didn't get the 10 seasons of 10 episodes each that they had wanted and planned for
So many people named their children/pets Khaleesi or Dany because of the first few seasons and now it's hilarious.
That's why it's illegal in Germany to give your children such stupid names :D
Why? It is a beautiful name regardless of the character, of which it is only fiction.
To us book readers it was hilarious back around 2013 when people first started doing that. Many theorized that she would eventually become “The Mad Queen” before the show even started, there are hints throughout the books especially in ‘ACoK’.
Dude, there were so many Aegons in the Targaryen family and all had different personalities. Aegon IV is one of the worst kings, whereas lots of people like Aegon I.
@@luczumtaugwald9126 people in Germany named their kids Adolf. They aren't exactly the great authority on naming
Pudgey in the penultimate episode, after bawling her eyes at every slightly emotional scene for 8 seasons: "There's something in my eye 😢"
You know what's sad, the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that. Yes there was a lot of foreshadowing of Dany coming back to power with "fire and blood" but there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people. (everyone dany had killed there was some justification behind it)
What an waste! D&D, it seems that this show was too big for you !
Yeah, that's the difference between competent writers and these hacks. It's not necessarily a bad character arc in and of itself but she literally just decides to start massacring civilians for no apparent reason when protecting the common people has been one of her prime motivations for the entire show.
Dany was always a bad mood away from losing her cool though
Dumb and dumber got plan to do star wars project, that's why they only want 6 eps on finale. Hbo greenlight for 10 eps or more for finale.
I hate to admit it, but I would've been fine with it if it was properly developed. But I still don't think she'll go mad in the books
'You know what's sad, the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that.'
7 seasons not enough?
'Yes there was a lot of foreshadowing of Dany coming back to power with "fire and blood"'
Yes, violent and cruel people are always great at constraining their violence and cruelty only on the 'bad guys.'
'there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people'
Hahaha!
'Maybe you're all innocent, maybe not. I'll let my dragons decide.'
'If I give everyone what they deserve, I'll have no one left to rule.'
'They'll know who's to blame when the sky falls upon them.'
Really, the exact kind of words of someone who cares for the innocent people!
For 8 seasons Dany's had nothing but contempt for the ordinary person under the veneer of caring for them. The only role she perceived for an average person is to be her slave in perpetuity, and moreso to be grateful in such an arrangement for being 'saved.'
Went from “he was prepared for the consequences” of his actions to calling Varys death stupid when she literally told him she would burn him if he conspired behind her back 😂 salute to the mad queen for saying eff it and letting loose
What exactly did Dany do that was so wrong to turn Varys against her so strongly? He was recruiting people to her cause just a few episodes ago.
Qyburn's death was more satisfying than Cersei's
Dr Frankenstein was killed by the monster he created
Absolutely 😂😂😂
The Hound should of grabbed her as she sneaked past and said 'the Starks send their regards' before stabbing her
Dany did say to Varys that if he ever betrayed her that she would burn him alive…. But I 100% agree that Dany should have listened to what Vary’s had to say before she killed him.
Varys got what he deserved
@@drrohanjacobVarys is a woman
@@RandomyoutubecommenterI did not want any crazies yelling at me for misgendering someone😂
The problem in the writing is that Varys' character wouldn't so easily and obviously "betray" her. He would've gone about it much smarter and subtley.
@@drrohanjacobexactly and he tried to have her poisoned with the little girl in the beginning. So quick to switch sides only because Jon has a c*ck. Fuck him
Both Greyworm and Dany loved Missandei so they both acted out of rage. Missandei’s last word was “Dracarys” for a reason.
I don't think Missandei would have wanted innocent people to die
Yes, I'm sure Missandei is smiling in the afterlife watching that little child hide behind a post as she's burned alive
@@aska1608 Yes, her final words should have been 'Dracarys, but please make sure to spare all the innocent civilians.'
@@SerbAtheist Her last words should have been "why are you killing me, I'm your most valuable bargaining chip, this makes zero sense, what kind of woefully incompetent drooling simpletons wrote this script?"
Remember Maester Aemon's line - "A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing." Dany felt completely alone by this point. She lost Misande and Jorah, and she felt betrayed by Tyrion and Varys. Jon had pulled away from her romantically because he couldn't stomach the idea of incest.
Tyrion and Jaime's goodbye is one of the best scenes of the show. Thank you Peter and Nik!
The most incredible thing is that it was only Drogon, if the 3 dragons had been with Danny, everything would be much easier .
@@williamshelton4318Because she listened to tyrion.
If she had listened to Ollena it would be over in season 7
I’m going to have to defend Dany a little bit here, but first I want to get some things out of the way- I don’t care who sits on the Iron throne. I don’t care if “Jon was always better” in the end. Jon’s just another Robb. This is strictly about Daenerys. I do wish things ended differently, but for now this is what we got and we’ve had years to try to make do or understand it. I think out of all the characters in the show, Daenerys suffers the most inside. She’s constantly being attacked, followed, picked apart, insulted and from s1-4 she’s done a damn good job ignoring the haters. But after a while she probably couldn’t hide her pain especially since sailing toward westeros. In the books, Dany longs for a family so bad. But more, she wants a home and support. She has no family, and any are either hiding, or worlds away. She only had her advisers and dragons. She wanted a family so bad she even convinced herself her rapist was her lover. Tyrion would rather defend his sister who wants his head on a spike- rather than Dany who saved him from having his head on a spike. He was a terrible advisor to her and in the books- he’s WAY worse. Also Varys is such a Hypocrite. He constantly stalked and spied on Dany for Robert- a child done dirty by the realm. Varys literally caters to the lords of westeros and spys, kills, and betrays anyone they tell him too. You guys know what he does with his web of children once’s he’s done with them right? nothing good. varys deserved to die, and Daenerys deserved to kill him. He literally helped have her sold and helped robert send one assassin after her even when admitting to her that he knew nothing of her other than that she was beautiful. Not to mention he tried to poison her. Dany also probably through so much grief and loss and betrayal, lost her sense and motive. The iron throne wasn’t what it was for her no more, so saving the people of kingslanding meant nothing to her. Although I wished he never burnt the city down- we got what we got. The ending was so fucked up and Dan and David wanted Dany to look like a villain so bad just to make other characters look good. Book Dany is arguably so much better and from my opinion, would never do anything of that.
I agree and say louder for the people in the back
@@ismahanomar4169 Thank you!
You're right, that totally justifies a complete 180 character assassination that comes out of literally nowhere.
@@leewatch7459 Yea, She was destined for greatness but her character was ruined so badly. Hopefully the books continue a great story where such events don’t happen
She tortured the masters by crucifying them instead of just killing or imprisoning them. She threatened to burn everyone in Qarth because some of the 13 didn't do what she wanted. She basically tells Jon either you want me romantically & week be dishonorable and lie or you are nothing to me, I never wanted a nephew just a bastard that would never be my equal. She is most definitely not a better ruler than Jon. Jon would've been Robb if he hadn't killed Dany. But Jon put duty & what was best for the people first instead of love, emotion.
Many viewers and reactors mention that Jaime has a character arc and that they don't understand why he went back to Cersei, but to me it made sense: if you look at all Jaime's statements throughout the show, he always made clear he loves her, not matter what. They did have arguments, but ultimately they always loved each other. To me there was never a sign that he would really oppose her.
They were toxic but that doesn’t mean she loved him. Cersei is a narcissist and since Jamie is her twin she uses and seduces him whenever she sees fit in the book after his hand is cut she’s never the same to him plus he burns her letter when she ask for help during her time in prison by the faith. D&D ruined his entire character making him a lovesick puppy after season 4 ended
exactly why he didn’t have an arc then. if he starts the show by saying “i love Cersei and want to be with her” then ends the show by saying “I love Cersei and want to be with her”, then he didn’t go anywhere
exactly why he didn’t have an arc then. if he starts the show by saying “i love Cersei and want to be with her” then ends the show by saying “I love Cersei and want to be with her”, then he didn’t go anywhere
I always took it as showing just how loyal Jaime really is. All the terrible things she did and he never wavered from his absolute devotion to her . He knew she was “hateful” he knew she was a monster but the kingslayer was so loyal he would give his own happiness away for her. Absolute mug.
"She's going to be the end of you."
-Olenna Tyrell
'I'm waiting for a rock to fall on them to be honest' is the funniest reaction to the Jaime/Cersei reunion lmao. How right he was. I didn't care when Jaime died, he was my favourite character and I didn't care. That fight with Euron was painful to watch, boring and unnecessary. He didn't even ring the bells. Character motivations were lost in these last few Episodes, it's just people doing things for plot reasons. I don't actually hate what happened, but it felt so unearned to me. I really sympathise with your conflicted feelings, I felt the same
" it's just people doing things for plot reasons." What a great way to put it. Arya's story during this season is exactly that.
@@markharris1125 I don't think they knew what to do with her so they concocted a prophecy to give her a climatic moment. I think a lot of her possible storylines were cut from the show altogether
@Bronze_Wing Yep, you can tell that from her being in King's landing. Perhaps they originally wanted her to fight the mountain alongside the hound, or to kill Cersei. As it was, they decided on other outcomes, so arya was left to faff around and get bloody in the city 😂
i noticed that people who watch got straight up all seasons in a short time, liked the ending more than fans whos been watching it for years
Because people who watched for years spent the offseason making up crazy theories and were disappointed when they didn’t happen instead of enjoying the story for what it is
@theblues8840 agree. So many of the theories ended up with a lot of happy endings even though supposedly fans know if "if you think there will be a happy ending you weren't paying attention".
Danny remembering Missandei's words "Dracarys". My queen
What a corny comment
People forget Dany was actually friends with Missandei and loved her. Missandei said “Dracarys” and Dany followed her advice. .The destruction of Kings Landing is her way of taking the throne and putting fear in the hearts of anyone who would challenge her for the throne.
No matter what it was all SO WELL ACTED. Both by Lena and Emilia (Cercei and Dany)
Yeah, that was the only positive thing about season 8 ... the actors still being excellent and trying to make the best of the garbage they had been given.
This is not the only show that started off excellently and then, once it had success, drastically lost quality. I think it is the American mentality showing.
Watch a sci-fi show named _Falling Skies,_ and you'll know what I mean
Daenerys did say she was to burn Varys alive if he betrayed her, and he not only did that but was trying to kill her poisoning her food. Tyrion betrayes her, Jon betrayes her. She literally lost everyone that actually care about her and two of her dragons that were like her children. And Cersei is trying to use her weakness against her, and we know what happens and someone uses her weakness against her.
Exactly
...and yet she didn't burn Cersei lol
Jon lines this season: YOU ARE MY QWEEEEN, SHE IS MY QWEEEEN, I DON WAN IT. That last line is me about the writers who started forgetting the books since season 5
They didn't forget, there are no books that cover the events past season 5. GRR Martin slowed down on writing the next book in the series, instead decided to write spin off and history books. I think they should have put the show on pause and resumed after more books were released, but the show runners wanted to finish the show quickly, so they made up a way to end it fast, which ended up not being satisfying to most viewers.
Huh? Jon being true to his word, holding Honor before personal gain is EVERYTHING Jon is, and has been since the first episode. Not sure where you drew that from.
@@DominikC1994 no they literally butchered Sansa And Baelish story by selling giving sansa to Ramsay while in the books it’s sansas best friend going under Arya’s name which eventually makes Jon wants to ride south to Winterfell and the reason they killed him off not just because he let the wildings through but he wanted to break his vows, then there is dorne literally butchered the whole dorne story which they could have done way more with and not kin slaying all over… The northern conspiracy of overthrowing the boltons and sending Devos to get Rickon, Bloodraven being an insanely important scary character, skipping the part in the prophecy of Cersei getting strangled by her “younger brother”, Mans still being alive and sent to winterfell, Baristen being alive, EURON GREYJOY one of the coolest villains written and in the show just being a clown they butchered him as hard as dorne and could have done so much more with all of this and gotten a better story and ending with it they had so muchhhhh to still use but they just wanted to rush it. The whole Young Gryff story and Tyrion with Jorah going through a lot more places it’s all soooo much stuff they could have worked with…
Pudgey absolutely nailed it around 10:30 props to you, also Bran said he lives MOSTLY in the past not completely in the past
Makes me a bit sad how easy it is to forget that Cersei and Jaime were twins. Their twin bond goes beyond everything, transcends any kind of love. They grew together, slept together from very young age even as kids, protected each other from others and had one another for literally their whole lives. This was very intense and clear in the books but unfortunately never made it to the show. But its very important to establish their background relationship. Its a poisonous relationship yes, and a sick one at times, but also one that is sealed with a twin's bond and goes beyond reason or any kind of logic. You can never shake that off, its a natural thing. The things we do for love. Of course a twin would always look out for the other no matter what and Jaime had no choice but to return to her in the end, even if he had a minor chance to succeed on saving her. In a way he loves her and he hates her but he had no choice but to return. You don't choose your twin.
Which is what I was thinking. A bond that cannot be broken no matter how monstrous she was or he was at times.
I think people just stop at the brother and sister part and forget about the twin bond...some of which has to do them being male and female rather than identical.
you never met reallive twins there is no magic bond and if in game of thrones twins are magical then it was never explained
@@sakutaro3musik486 Why are you telling someone who they met? That sounds stupid. And why are you bringing up magic like the bond twins share is part of this fantasy world?
Danny at start of the episode: I want to save the people from a tyrant. Danny end of episode: I will kill them all by becoming a tyrant.
Jamie killed the Mad King to save innocents. In this episode: I never cared about the people, innocent or otherwise.
Writers: yep makes sense, lets do that.
sUbVeRTiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS
I knew like 10 mins into this episode that Dany's vision from the house of the undying was coming true.
So many "fans" still say "there was no build up" 😂
@@orphanedhanyouYup. She threatened to burn Qarth to the ground way back in S2. Ever since Drogo and her son died she's been cuckoo in the head, it's just that some fans were too blind to see it cause she's hot and dragons are cool, I guess?
At this point in the story, Dany has lost Jorah, Messandi and two of her Dragons. She felt betrayed by Varys and rejected by Jon as well as jealous of how much he is respected and loved by his own people. She is a very young girl who is dealing with all of these emotions that her life has not equipped her for. When the bells rang, she didn't want to "kill" Cersei. She wanted to "hurt" her and took it out on what she perceived as Cersei's people (i.e. the people of Kings Landing being an extention of Cersei). The truth is that Dany's actions kind of make sense if you look at it from that perspective, but the writers/editors did a horrible job of getting that across to the audience. In my opinion it was one of the "worst" episodes of the series. It just felt rushed and out of place from everything that came before it.
lol Samwell Tarly has a higher kill-count than the whole Golden Company
Samwell the Slayer, First of His Name, Stalker of White Walkers, Menace of the Thenns, Stealer of Crasters Daughter, Pillager of the Citadel and.. in the end the Hardest of the Tarlys and Stronger than the entire Golden Company. The One True King to the Iron Throne.
I remember when Dany started burning the civilians and I jumped out of my seat and was like "I called it!" I spent the whole episode telling my husband "I told you so." I never felt so vindicated because I had been calling it since season 2. 😂😂😂
Same!
It was so obvious to me though I loved Dany & hoped she would wake up. Even at the end if she had not doubled down with Jon in the throne room he would have walked out of there with her & tried to find their way to a better future, together but maybe not romantically. But Dany couldn't accept that.
Drogon hovering over kings lading was the extremely ominous!
Everyone decries Dany for attacking and killing civilians after the surrender, and of course the Unsullied and Dothraki would follow her; but so did the Northern troops, despite Jon ordering against it. As Jorrah said way back, "there's a beast inside of every man; it comes out when you put a sword in his hand."
A thread throughout Dany's story has been ruling because you are loved or because you are feared. She's been told by everyone this entire time that she would be loved by the people, but she wasn't. She saw everyone around her getting more love than she did, including the one person who had a stronger 'claim' to the Iron Throne than she did. That just leaves her with being feared, and she has Drogon for that. Her burning Kings Landing cements that fear.
The last thing to keep in mind is the corrupting influence of power; nobody's immune, not even Dany.
Dany executes Varys for Treason
Spartan: "She's done"
Jon executes Olly and company for Treason
Spartan: "Hell yeah!"
literally 😭 they didn’t even get that he was trying to poison her, like..
@filmsbylis Trying to claim Dany didn't need to die is crazy. She tortured the masters by crucifying them instead of just killing or imprisoning them. She threatened to burn everyone in Qarth because some of the 13 didn't do what she wanted. She basically tells Jon either you want me romantically & will be dishonorable and lie or you are nothing to me, I never wanted a nephew just a bastard that would never be my equal. You realize Dany ignored & turned away from so many people that have her advice that she ignored? Varys & Tyrion & Jon had been telling her this wasn't the way. She wasn't listening. Varys knew he was dead the second he realized she wasn't a good queen & would always put her desire for control first.
There is no comparison. Olly was against Jon because of his anger & bias towards the wildlings. Their deaths were swift and not vengeful. Dany was mad Varys (& Tyrion & Jon & Jorah & Barristan) told her to not choose fire & blood of she wanted to be different, so when she didn't get blind loyalty she killed Varys for being right (and so she could try to hide the truth about Jon).
It's the moment we've all been waiting for...
I don't believe that Dany became mad out of blue. Since she arrived at Westeros people started to treat her like she didn't deserve respect for all that she have done. She lost her dragon, she lost part of her army trying to not do things in a wrong way and for last she lost her second dragon and her best friend. Westeros will always prefer a man in the throne, it's completely understandable what she did.
Oh so all that warranted her burning "innocent people did it?? 🤣
All she had to do was fly to the Red Keep and burn Cersei down that's it but why burn innocent people to get there... it makes no sense.
@@manvirshergill1739 She said she wanted to rule by fear. If that doesn't make people afraid of you then I don't know what will
@@cassu6 what you going on about?
@@manvirshergill1739 Your comment talking that she didn't need to burn innocent people?
@@cassu6 well she didn't though, what did they do her? All she had to do was go to the Red Keep and burn it, instead she starts killing innocents. I like the idea of her going mad but the way it was done in the show was horrendous, it was rushed and didn't have any real build-up to it. It literally made no sense why she should just start burning people at that moment instead of just leaving them and go after Cersei.
Dany really had a nice arc in this show. From young and ignorant to ignorant and stupid to stupid and evil... Great.
Davos clearly told Dany "I never knew bells to mean surrender"
He did say that, but it wasn't to Dany, it was to his son during the Battle of Blackwater. D and D "just kind of forgot" about that.
@@Springheel01 it was a joke just calling back to that
Dany has a long history of killing innocent people.
Telling the truth is not a "betrayal". Asking someone to lie (for the rest of their life no less) is the betrayal.
The actor who plays Varys is famously NOT PLEASED (to put it lightly) with how the writers chose to have Varys go out.
After the finale, you should react to the video of the cast doing a table reading for season 8 and finding out for the first time. When they get to Varys dying he simply puts the script down in disgust and leans back with his arms folded, looking furious.
I felt so bad for him and Kit/Emilia. They really got screwed
Everything else that Daenerys did in this episode was understandable, UP UNTIL Burning innocents after she freaking won the war.
I absolutely blame the fricking writers for messing up our beloved Queen.
It is so easy to not mess this up. Just make up literally any situation where the only way to kill Cersei is to take out a lot of innocent people too. But they couldn't do it.
Dany had dangerous cracks in her personality as early back as season 5. She was becoming too egotistical. Problem is everybody continued to sip that Season 1- 4 coolade of early Dany. 😂
@@afanofpeanuts7381It still felt wrong. It still felt out of character. You know why? Because hell knows why they decided to shorten the last 2 seasons and there barely was any character development to justify this.
And the writing. Oh, how the writing dropped.
@@afanofpeanuts7381don't forget that in season 2 she stood outside the gates of Qarth and threatened to lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.
@@stacyleal5687 Then again, that was only in the show, so more like D&D have been messing around with her (and a lot others) since the beggining for the sake of shock value and to appeal to a wider audience who thinks that's cool
The pain, suffering and anguish of Jaime and Tyrion, the two brothers stuck on two sides of the Civil war was more emotional and more visceral than the best moments of the most critically acclaimed TV shows. Just that goodbye scene alone is is better than 99% of the things on TV.
The main difference between John and Danny is the fact that Danny had actual physical power with her dragons, and she could have used them at anytime, and it took for her to be knocked down to her lowest to finally Snap. That's the best logic I can come up with. But that's the main difference between those 2. She had power and used it where he had power and chose not to use it..
I don't think she snapped. Her first choice was always violence. Violence was the only card she knew how to play without her advisors telling her otherwise. She'd been playing that card her whole life, and winning, murdering innocent people along the way. This time she played and won the hand, but not the game.