The ICONIC Boss Design in Persona 5
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- [SPOILERS FOR PERSONA 5 ROYAL]
There few games that put as much thought into all the little details in the same way that persona does, and I think there is no better example of that than in persona 5's boss fights. Today I'm breaking down Kamoshida, Madarame, and Kaneshiro's boss designs and why they work so well!
Check out my Persona Compendium on Goemon:
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Music Used:
SMTIII Nocturne OST Ginza Theme
Persona 5 OST Blooming Villain
Persona 5 OST A woman
Persona 5 OST Price
Persona Q OST Corndog
Twitter: / 3_waifu
#Persona #P5R #Boss - Ігри
Dang. Madarame's plagiarism was so bad, he tried stealing the game's attacks. Never knew that bit.
I would like to add that Kaneshiro talks more like a typical street thug or stereotypical rapper. He's acting "fly".
oh i get it
and him being represented as a fly (probably) means he swoops in/cashes in on any new way to make money, since at the beginning of the fight he says he couldnt sit back and not cash in on blackmailing minors
So he's...
Pretty fly for a mob guy?
A friend of mine made the argument that it was a mistake to make Kamoshida's boss form look demonic. This is his mental world and thus, would presumably reflect his self-image to some degree. Therefore my friend argued that Kamoshida's boss form should have started out looking like an obscenely beautiful golden Adonis wielding an impractically large sword (phallic symbol). He would only start looking like the neutered sex demon we see as you chip away at his health and, by extension, his ego.
Ehh I don't think kaneshiro would consider himself a fly either. I always got the impression that their shadow form reflects how they see themselves, but the boss form is their unmasked truth, a form that has nothing to do with self perception and everything to do with objective truth
Interestingly, there's an unused model for Shadow Kamoshida's boss form that overhauled his design a bit; some notable changes are his skin being purple, his horns being longer, having goat legs and hooves, a mask like Joker's, and the veins in his arm muscles popping out.
@@Christopher-eq1rnI think the objective truth of Kaneshiro is that he knows he’s nothing without money, but he also knows getting caught could spell doom for him, so he’s constantly dancing around authorities like a fly dancing around someone with a fly-swatter. That’s how I see it in-universe at least.
As for the reference to his middle name in combat, Bael is short for Beezlebub (don’t know why they spelled it like that). The reason why is because he’s the sun of gluttony, which is Kaneshiro’s sin judging by the Will seeds and his calling card. The reason why is because he is most known to “ cause destruction through tyrants, to cause demons to be worshipped among men, to excite priests to lust, to cause jealousies in cities and murders, and to bring about war.” Not too dissimilar to a mafia boss in real life, causing corruption to spread wherever their clan resides. You can read more here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beelzebub#:~:text=Seemingly%2C%20Beelzebul%20here%20is%20synonymous,and%20to%20bring%20about%20war.
@@F1areonYou piqued my interest when you mentioned goat legs. The closest comparison I can draw to Kamoshida is that of a Satyr. They’re often portrayed as lustful (evidently so), and drunken (which can explain why he kids a wine glass, or maybe it’s just royalty).
That may be how he wants to see himself, but Shadows are aspects of their true selves.
They know that they’re bad people beneath their veneers.
About Madarame. Of course, the paintings represent his nature as an artist. But you're meant to beat the paintings in order to attack his true body. In other words, his artist self isn't his true self, but just something he's hidden behind, because he isn't really an artist.
Very well put. You could also say the paintings reference the public image of a skilled yet humble artist he has created.
@@dantegrimm6439 And in Royal, once you get down to the main body, all he does is create fakes. Because that's all he can do.
@@smilingman4299 I'll be honest the clones did puzzle me a bit in terms of symbolism. I get they're weaker every time they're created reflecting madarame's decayed skills.
@@dantegrimm6439 But mainly that when you get behind the artist cover that we've already talked about, he only knows how to copy and paste other's works.
@@smilingman4299 fair point. Might have fit madarame's plagiarism better if they were clones of your party members rather than self portraits. I don't know. Any rate atlus did great with persona 5 royal and set a new standard for video games.
I think those counterparts are a little TOO similar to just be coincidence. I would imagine the devs cant say anything about it considering the whole "these are fictional people and bear no resemblance to reality" thing you have to agree to at the beginning of the game lol
Just a “teensy” bit of “inspiration”
I absolutely love it, that Madarames Shadow and Yusukes Persona are connected. these historical connections are just another layer of intrique to me. Great video
This is shaping up to be an interesting series! I can’t wait for the next installment.
I think it’ll be a while till then
I thought that Kaneshiro may have been a fly like shadow to represent swarming. Just like how flies start as one but end up eventually growing into an entire swarm, he was doing that with his cash. I could be wrong though.
Interesting theory. I thought he was a fly, because, you know... Without his money he's just an insect.
Also bael is related to beelzebub the Lord of the flies and Prince of gluttony. Am I the only who was disappointed that bael was just kaneshiro with wings and compound eyes?
@@dantegrimm6439 Yeah I was kinda disappointed that they didn't really do anything unique with his design. Like they could have at least added elements to the fly that help represent greed.
@@nastycrimeboy5279 maybe they could have made him more insect like with a golden exoskeleton. This could reflect his obsession with looking wealthy and powerful. Or would this be too similar to beelzebub?
In my point of view, he turns into a fly because just like a fly is drawn to rotten food, he is driven to suck "rotten" money out of high schoolers
Boss characters often feel neglected in video games, so it's great that the devs put so much work into making them something special. The symbolism packed into them is more or less on par with the main characters, and further reinforces the fact that they are just people, and they are people whose thoughts and desires have been greatly warped. Of course, as they say, great video as always, excited to see what's next!
I appreciate how u organized the skills in the menu
I still wonder where this guy went :/
Brazil
I think that Kamoshida's "Trophy of Obsession" is also supposed to represent something else given the way it's positioned on the boss.
Heya, I hope you come back soon, I only recently got into your content and loved it, I've been wondering what happened to ya
I may be thinking ahead a bit, but I always thought Okumuras shadow could take the form of a satellite. This could not only be in line with the sci fi theme of his palace, but also symbolize the omniscient control he has over his employees and his family.
Interesting concept. Maybe he could also be sealed inside the satellite, referencing his desire to be aware and in control of their lives yet willfully ignorant of their suffering.
@@dantegrimm6439 Not only that, but he could also be a robot version of himself in the satellite, similar to Haru’s slaver driver- I mean fiancé.
@@TheRoomforImprovementany ideas for kaneshiro? My idea is that he could have turned into an actual fly man with a gold exoskeleton, reflecting kaneshiro's obsession with appearing wealthy and powerful. Or would this look too similar to beelzebub?
@@dantegrimm6439It would’ve been cool, but I think what we got now is sufficient. He’s constantly dancing around authorities like a fly dancing around someone with a fly-swatter.
@b1tchb4by3 Good point. when I think about it now, it fits more that Maderame, Kaneshiro, and okumura don't fight you directly and don't get boss forms like the other palace rulers. Although I do think the Kaneshiro "transformation" was a cop out. It made it seem like he was gonna do more than grow wings and compound eyes. Either commit to a course or don't bother.
This is such an interesting series so far! I would've never thought to look at the middle names/real-life criminals.
One thing about Madarame that you missed is his boss forms relation to Yusuke's final persona, Kamu Susano-o. Kamu Susano-o was one of the 3 beings created when Izanagi washed his nose, mouth, and eyes in Japanese mythology. These body parts obviously correlate to Madarame's painting form, which symbolizes Yusuke freeing himself, or washing away, Madarame's influence at the end of his social link, transforming into his true self
I mean if you exclude Gorokichi :v
It's widely accepted (from what I've seen) that each Palace is related to a deadly sin. Castle of Lust, Museum of Vanity, Bank of Gluttony, Pyramid of Wrath, Spaceport of Greed, Casino of Envy, and Cruise Ship of Pride. The extra ones are the Prison of Sloth and Laboratory of Sorrow
Madarame is based on Vanity because of the psn trophy that you obtain after defeating.
he fucking murdered kamoshida with that hassou tobi
Amazing video! I was hoping you would cover the bosses at some point!
Piggytron looks like the absolutely safe capsule from mother 3.
This persona 5 videos are just amazing, I really hope that it be more of them :D
This video is awesome I hope you make another videos on the other bosses I can’t wait to see your next video. Keep up awesome work I enjoy watching your videos.
These videos are incredibly well made and I wish you could make more videos
8:17 am i the only one who thinks kaneshiro actually does look like him?
great video btw, i love how deep the themes and stories of this game goes.
this is so well made and researched oml thank you for making this
been missing your videos!
Wow, really great video!
2:38 I also want to add that the trophy is like a chalice and I remembered watching The Da Vinci Code, it mentions a chalice reprisents the shape of a woman's womb which is evident from the female lower halves inside it.
this just randomly popped up in my recommended
love the work my guy
Glad to hear it!
Damn man I love your videos so much, you manage to made learn more and more about one of my favourite games
Love all ur vids on ur channel. Hope all been well
5:25
Okay! It's always bothered me that there were eight bosses for the seven deadly sins. I know it's unofficial, but the fact that there were eight before it went down to seven puts my brain at ease.
Great vid! Time to subscribe!
Since Kaneshiro doesn't get a whole lot of characterization in the game, a story I am writing is giving him a bit more backstory and connection to Joker. The fic conceit being "Hey what if Joker is the son of a Yakuza?"
...said Yakuza being Goro Majima of Yakuza/Ryu ga Gotoku...
Dude, that's great
I couldn’t help but correlate Akechi and Majima having the same last name, maybe that’s why Akechi went insane in the Shido Arc (get it?).
I love these videos :)
I love your videos and sincerely hope you come back!
I have to admit I was disappointed that kaneshiro and okumura didn't have actual transformations in their boss battle. However the rest of their palaces and battles perfectly showed their mindsets. Persona 5 is easily 1 of the best games in recent years. Keep up the great work and hope you're doing well.
Aaaa i want that art book!! Great vid btw :)
if you just want to look at the concept art and stuff someone uploaded scans of the japanese version on Imgur. It is out of order, and of course in japanese so you cant read the text but the art is all there and it is very high quality!
@@3Waifu oh thanks! I'll check that out for sure! I also just recently bought a recent art book from Soejima and P Studio, so im looking forward to when that arrives!
Super early gang!
Yessir
I like your content bro
Doesn't it say right at the beginning of the game that this is a work of fiction and that any similarities to people living or dead are purely coincidental?
It does
But like that's also there for purely legal reasons so they sent be sued.
Just had a look and damn man that persona 5 artbook is a crazy high price
it was a difficult purchase to justify, but I think it was worth it. I got mine off ebay used so it wasn't that bad but I still ended up paying like $80 for it, which is insane
Pretty interesting topic.
Fantastic video as usual, thinking about the themes of these bosses really makes me wonder what they’re up to after P5 (well prison ofc) specifically someone like Kaneshiro seeing as we never actually got to witness his change of heart plus he ran an entire gang, where do they go without his leadership?
Presumably the rest of his gang were rounded up and arrested after he spilled his guts to the cops. Without his leadership, they went straight to prison.
Subasa LOOKS exactly like Kaneshiro and I can't handle it pfft HHAAHAH
Hey man. Where’d you go?
I. Need. That. Book.
it's really awesome, but pricey. If you are purely interested in the art there is a full scan of it somewhere on Imgur but its out of order, and its the Japanese version. Still worth a look though especially because its on there for free!
8:08 Kinda reminds me of Tanaka.
Also, i don’t remember whether you mentioned it but kamoshida’s horns are also a symbol of lust since they are goat horns, an animal traditionnally associated with this sin.
I always thought that the Shadow boss forms p5R is how reality views them
I liked the videos sad that you disappeard
Damn where'd you go?
Can you Talk About Kaitou Joker?
hola
So.... where does one get the English version of the art book. Or do you know that 13/10 number barcode at the back of the book so that I can try searching for it at the bookstore I work at
It's on Amazon for $200! And it's paperback! The oversized Japanese artbook is only $75
I got my copy off ebay for like $80, downside is its missing the paper cover but I'm not that worried about it. That said, the paper cover is what has the bar code and numbers on it so unfortunately I don't know what they are. If you do find it, I definitely wouldn't pay more than $100~$125 for it and I only spent $80 cause I knew it would be useful for the channel. It's certainly out there... just near impossible to come by at a reasonable price nowadays.
Where's part 2?
It’s been a year so what happened to the next 3 bosses?
Ngl, whenever I hear or see the name Azazel, I instantly think of the character from soul calibur.
Just wondering which boss is everyone's favorite?
design: Kaneshiro/Yaldabaoth
Story: Kamoshida
To fight: Wakaba
1: Maruki
2: Shido
3: Sae
@@endersul I really enjoyed having to call Sae out on her cheating like us players did throughout the palace.
Royal: Any of the last four bosses. They each have such great things going for them
Strikers: Konoe or Demiurge. Konoe’s story was the most sympathetic for me, but Demiurge let me use all the Thieves at once for the battle, which was the most fun
Maruki from a story standpoint
Okumura from a gameplay standpoint
Yaldaboath from a design standpoint
Where did you get the art book at?
I’m sorry one of your personal favorites I thought these characters in this series were meant to be hated no judgment and all just going to confused what you said there 3:41
Every story needs conflict in order to create interest. In persona 5 the villains are the major source of this conflict, and while they may be obviously bad people and unlikable I appreciate their existence as a plot device. I think Madarame sets up a really fun arc in the story, has a very strong design, and his palace is down right beautiful, so for those reasons I really enjoy his presence in the game!
@@3Waifu All right good point thanks and keep up the good job
Lesgo
I think it's a shame you never continued with boss analysis from P5. Granted, I shouldn't be talking. I haven't updated anything in about as much time.
You sound a little like Ryuji sometimes
I do have similarly blonde hair! (I also say "for real" way too much lmao)
Kaneshiro looks like the embodiment of Greed tho 🤔
I think kaneshiro is a pretty good fit for gluttony. He's obsessed with making himself seem wealthy and powerful. He amasses money only so he can squander it unlike okumura who has higher aspirations. Admittedly there is a lot of overlap between lust, greed and gluttony, they're all sins of excess.
@@dantegrimm6439 The difference between gluttony and greed is that the first wants to make use of his goods non stop while the seconds wants to accumulate as much as possible, both Okumura and Kaneshiro are obsessed with money and status, but one of them gets pleasure from spending money like crazy while the other focuses on gaining as much power and influence as possible se he can never return to the modest life he had, in this sense Okumura is a lot more of a greed person than Kaneshiro.
@@VeritasEspiritoria that's what I was saying but thank you for explaining in greater detail. Kaneshiro amasses money only so he can squander it for his own pleasure whilst okumura amasses it primarily to elevate his status. There is some overlap between the sins as they're both to do with wanting too much of something which leads to people getting confused.
I agree actually! There are many overlapping traits that the bosses share, and one thing I've found in making this video (and the upcoming ones) is that it can be difficult to pick out one specific vice to attach them to. Still I think there are common themes that can be followed to nail down some solid answers, but I wouldn't call anyone wrong for feeling like a different sin fits better!
Madarame feels more like envy
Sae is Envy
@@EJ-vb5it I know
You should probably change the title to persona 5 royal because not everybody has played royal and may be spoiled.
Can't have shit in Matarame's palace 💀💀💀
Yo
Yo
You still around man?
why are you saying you aren't able to cover all bosses in one video, aren't you free to make the video as long as you want? lol