Why the Harley Street 500, Street 750, and Street Rod 750 Failed
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- Опубліковано 8 кві 2021
- Was it looks, was it price, was it just a bad motorcycle? These are all valid questions, but there was another element not many people talk about. Harley-Davidson partnered with Vance & Hines and went racing with the Street 750 engine. While today they are finding success with the Street 750 engine Harley-Davidson has dropped the street lineup. The early years were a disaster and Harley-Davidson only made matter worse. While technology from the racing program filtered down into the Street Rod 750, it was too late for the Street Series. It's sad since the platform had a lot of potential to provide performance and a competitive price point with the Harley-Davidson name.
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What did you guys think of the Street Series Harley-Davidson tried?
To be frank they aren’t bad motorcycles like you mentioned. As to why they didn’t do well is up for debate. IMHO I think they they are competing with Honda, Yamaha and Triumph in that space and all those companies make really good bikes. Honda Shadow Aero 750 is a terrific bike and really hard to beat in so many aspects. I do however agree that Harley made the right move to quit making them. Sportsters are great entry bikes and you can move up from there if you wish. Sportsters still have a “Harley” look and feel vs Sports which don’t frankly.
Took my MSF on a 500, I didn’t think it was a bad bike at all.
@@MrJruta mine heated up like hell. Burnt my thigh too a couple times. It's not bad but the ergonomics are weird for anyone taller than 5'6 or 5ft 8"
They should have taken the cafe racer route (probably hard to do on a v-twin) and changed the foot controls to neutral or rear sets maybe, higher seat, and different tank design. They got hot as hell
@@chrisdawson8252 I think your on to something there. Harley Cafe Style Racer would be a hit. It’s at least worth trying IMHO
I went out to buy a small commuter bike in 2018. Locally, all of the motorcycle shops I went to for Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha didn't seem that interested in selling a motorcycle. Didn't want to answer any questions, and only one shop would let me sit on a bike. I wasn't a fan of H-D, but I went to their shop just to see if they had an 883 on the floor, and that's when I learned about the Street series. These guys were *much* more polite, and they wanted me to not only sit on the bikes, but ride them. I tried a 500 and a 750 that day. I came back and bought a 2018 Street 500, for LESS money than I'd have paid the Honda shop for a Rebel 500. That motorcycle was amazing. It wasn't fast, but it handled great in any weather. The only problem it ever gave me was when the speedometer cluster failed not long after I bought the bike - they fixed it in one day, and from that point on the bike was 100% reliable. As someone who grew up hearing about how bad Harley-Davidson bikes were, I was confused. I put 10,000 miles on it in 11 months, that little bike ran through torrential rain, hail, high winds, and on one memorable occasion, a tornado. I took advantage of a deal harley had at the time in 2019, and traded the little bike on a Street Rod 750. I made a change to the foot pegs and exhaust heat shield, and that motorcycle has been more reliable than every motorcycle I've ever had, more reliable than most cars I've had too. I've thought about getting a Pan-America, but to be honest I'm probably going to have to be buried with my Street Rod.
That's awesome to hear! I was really impressed by the Street Series handling, they are really good bikes! A lot of people will talk crap about them but the majority of those bikes work great!
Thanks for fixing your sketchy shelf. 😂😂👍🏻
It kinda took the suspense out as to if it would fall or not though lol.
@@GixxerFoo would you have kept it in the video if it fell while you were recording 🤣
Back in the mid nineties, all Japanese cruisers were called “ A Harley Clone “
Twenty years later we’ve come full
circle - Harley built a “ Japanese Clone “
🤣
THAT is EXACTLY the TRUTH!
The circle of cruiser life
The metric bikes in the 90's tried very hard to look just like Harley, almost to the point of Harley suing them lol. 😄 but your right now Harley is copying the metrics trying to get the price down for younger buyers.
@@GixxerFoo But at least Harley-Davidson could make an attempt so that their Japanese imitation bikes resemble a Harley-Davidson motorcycle! Or are they really that dumb?
My brother, when he first saw my Street Rod: "Huh. Harley made a UJM."
I spent two full days of riding on a street 500 during my MSF course and I agree, it was an easy bike to ride and maneuver and I never thought about the two up seat during that whole weekend. Which means it was comfortable! However.... it is soooo ugly I could never ride that bike in public! The only one I considered riding was the street rod which I actually went to look at when I bought my 883. I was totally going to buy that street rod as my first bike but when I sat on it I knew I could never get comfortable on that bike! So I bought a black iron 883.
I have to admit a lot the styling feels like an after thought. The ergonomics are a bit wonky, especially on the Street Rod.
You made.the right choice my friend. I'd take the 883 any day over that STREETROD. My friend had one and had no end of problem s. Like ask yourself what does Harley really know about water cooling ?and they threw the baby out with the bathwater on the styling !🤮🤣😎🇺🇸
I love my XG750, fantastic Rev-X motor and 6 speed transmission. Love it, way better than the 883C I had.
I like my 2015 Street 750. It was great for commuting before Covid, when my employer went to remote work. I took it from Oregon to San Diego mostly via Hwy 1. Great trip. What I didn't like was HD's execution. The lag and leap issue with the fuel tank was a turn-off even though it got fixed. I took it in for new tires, and the rear axel had not been lubed prior to install making it very difficult for the mechanic to remove. He lubed it when putting it back in. Then HD didn't really stand behind it, going with the Street Rod 750 instead of improving execution of the original Street 750. I disagree that they "doubled down" on the concept with the Street Rod. It was moving away from the concept. Then they really failed by withdrawing support after discontinuing it in December, 2021. I took it in for new brakes, and discovered more execution issues. The bolts holding the calipers on had seized. They had to break the calipers to get them off. I needed new calipers, but HD had declared the parts obsolete. On a seven year old motorcycle discontinued only six months prior. The shop had to go to a vintage parts place for used calipers. All I wanted was new brake pads. That's a failure in execution. I will be leery of buying another HD product as a result. Again, I like the bike but HD made a lot of errors in product execution. That's on them.
From what I've heard, many HD salespeople are in the "good 'ol boys" club of yesteryear, and they didn't believe the Street series was a real HD, and that attitude turned customers away. Same with the V-Rod. I think the Pan-Am will die too if the sales teams don't get behind it with enthusiasm.
They've really got to get behind the bikes Harley is selling, every thing has changed so much from the late 90's when they couldn't even keep up with demand. The Pan America is on point with the power and price with the competition, if it catches on it will open a lot of doors for the company.
I agree, Harleys xg failure was their own demise. I'm a harley tech, and every harley employee, whether a salesman or mechanic, always trash talk the bike and never liked it, and don't consider it a harley.
Same deal bro. Didi the safety course on the Street 500 and had a great time. It;s a great bike, just not what I wanted for an everyday bike. Sorry to see the cut.
Right on! I like them, but I couldn't see committing to a purchase on one, I looked at the Street Rod pretty hard but just couldn't commit to it.
Great video and informative. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love the videos I listen to these videos while I make deliveries on my truck driving route. Also my wife is going to be taking the Harley riders course as well. And I just want to say a great huge thank you for the cam video that you did I have a 2012 HD with a 103 I went gear drive and did the TW 2:22 PM and oh my God is all I can say thank you for all the contact I’m an avid follower if you cool if you had some kind of stickers so I can slap them on my truck and my tour pack. 😎👍🏼🇺🇸
That is awesome! I bet that 222 woke that bike up, with that gear drive you won't have to worry about even inspecting or replacing your hydraulic tensioner. I'll need to come up with stickers for everyone, I appreciate the support!
The first time I heard about them was when they canceled it for not selling well enough.
In typical Harley fashion it failed because they didn't advertise it, as far as I care Harley killed it on purpose
It really failed to thrive and never garnered a following, fun bikes to ride but just didn't catch on.
Badass channel. Real info for real bikers. Thanks
Appreciate it! I just try and keep it straight forward!
I'm old and have been riding for 56 years. When the street series came out, EVERYONE I talked with at the Harley shop, old friends, not employees, said "These things aren't going to sell" and they didn't. You know, water-cooled, WTF, over? They took up floor space and kept the people who dust them busy; that's all. Tradition is tradition...
People don't look at Harley for water cooling and overhead cams, the Vrod did well for years. Much better than I expected when it first came out.
Being stubborn and not accepting anything but air cooled is how Harley will end. Emissions regulations can’t be met by a large displacement air cooled engines.
@@GixxerFoo The only 2 items that killed the V-rod was; 1 PRICE, it was overpriced to the max. 2. Again the Cruiser ONLY guise.
Live relative close to a local biker bar that has since closed down, thank God. You always heard them leaving the bar WFO with open pipes. Used to have fun with these guys by listening to their Bench Racing Stories of power, strength and reliability. Then get them to the parking lot with my old BMW K75RT and look at their 10 year old HD with Wow 15K miles on the clock, then showed them the at the time 10 year old K bike with just under 100k on the clock. Several challenged a Race to prove their powers. Well my stock K75RT was NEVER defeated in the 1/2 mile and 1 mile run against ANY HD I ran against. Man heard a bunch of I backed off for X, Y, Z issue after the run. Didn't have the heart to tell them I snookered them, as the K bike had around 100hp with a remapped Computer and a bottle of Mothers little helper under the seat plus the bike weighed in at 525lbs after dieting. Sold the bike later and the guy with it is still flogging the hell out of it and it hasn't been broken down yet.
Those BMW'S are pretty stout and they make some power!
Good stuff! Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Worst ergos I've ever felt on a bike. I sat on the bike and literally thought, "Am I doing this wrong?" My heels were resting on the exhaust and nothing felt right at all.
They really messed that up on the Street Rod for sure!
I owned a 2018 Street Rod 750, with Stage 1. Was a fun bike, fairly quick and fun in the corners. Could hang with an MT-07 all day long. Was it a seriously fast bike, not really but it could go if you really spun it up. Were the ergos a little hard to get used to at first, yes. Did it put a smile on my face?....yes...as long as you remembered what you were riding and didn't try and chase an MT-09 or something like that. Overall, was a fun and reliable machine. If you are considering a used one, make sure you have a good slip-on from Bassani or V&H, get it PROPERLY tuned, and upgrade the filter. It wakes some more HP out of the engine, and doesn't run out of steam from 7-9000rpm. Ride safe everyone.
It’s a great platform for customising. Change a few things and it’s a great city bike.
I’m looking for a Street Rod 750 to ride to work. Need something lighter and nimbler than a touring machine for the short commute
Great info!
Glad it was helpful!
Really nice info. Didn't know any of this. Shame Harley are bad with their pr. 750 bikes from other companies are really popular.
People love these bikes in Australia (due to the power restrictions for beginners) they are still selling $9,000UD for a 500cc
My friend's kid got a Street 750 for his first bike rode it for a year and he just bought himself a Sportster he loved that bike he said it ran great and it kept up with everybody on the freeway it was pretty good
A lot of people knocked that 750 but I really liked it! My only gripe was it should of been dual overhead cam.
Liking the new shelf.
Thank you, it's quite an upgrade over the old shelf.
Thanks for this interesting topic and sharing your thoughts
To me the lack of race success had little to do with it's failure. I don't see many young perspective buyers paying attention to racing. I don't see other brands including Indian selling many bikes based on racing success. I think it was more about "perceived value". The style wasn't my favorite but Indian, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and Honda's near this size are all way uglier in my opinion. Triumph Street Twin is close in style but is more like a Sportster in price.
For me the Street Rod styling and performance was competitive, but read it had right foot control placement that only really fit a few. Speculation was they didn't want to spend money on a new exhaust that would give room for the foot peg and brake.
I suspect young buyers who had little brand loyalty were looking for how much bang for their buck they could get with price, performance (power) and features (electronics) trumping style. They may have seen Harley "out looking" the competition but didn't see it "out functioning" them. And at this price point foreign bikes can have discounts on 1-3 year old new bikes still on the sales floor. The lower priced motorcycle world is super competitive and flooded with lots of cheap competition from countries who pay third world wages.
I remember publicized initial problems with quality control (wiring looking haphazard) and some front brake problems didn't help either.
Harley's success with the Sportster had a lot of used and relatively cheap older Sporty's around for those who want the "real" Harley experience. I read tests where they liked the Street but would gladly pay just a little more to get the Sportster.
Another thing I remember around the time they came out was doubts it was American made. I remember lots of internet speculation they were ALL made in India. Now some of that was from Harley haters, but Harley could have done better in my mind to demonstrate their origin. Also shutting the plant in K.C. helped add to the question of where did they come from. I noticed Harley is showing production of the Pan American on the web which is good, because some haters are already claiming they are not made in the U.S.
That is a lot of Harley's issue, we don't think of over head cams and water cooling with a Harley. Most people buying a Harley want that single pin, air cooled sound and feel.
You make some good points. As an older rider, I did what you said. I looked at them, said "they're pretty cool", then walked away and didn't give them another thought. That shelf doesn't look level to me.
Lol that shelf, we didn't think it looked level either to the eye but with the level on it it says it is.
@@GixxerFoo I'm a GC, and that ain't good! - Means the rest of your garage is out of level!
It's the original garage from 1964, it's got a pecan tree next to it that's grown under the foundation and wrecked the floor. 🤷♂️ love the tree so eventually the garage is going to go and build a new shop behind the original location.
There is a Street Rod for sale here that is really clean and I was looking at it as a 2nd bike. Other things they missed on was wheel size, should have had the standard size of 17" on it. Just because of the range of tires you can get for that. Should have had a standard neutral riding position. I could do with a taller seat also. Yea the racing fiasco was one thing but the 'Hardcore Harley Bros" bad mouthing them 24/7 because they did not want HD to stray from the path even though they would not buy one and really was not buying new bikes anyway was a factor also.
Thanks for the video- that said its most annoying that the model has been discontinued. As a (very much) older UK 'returning rider' I'd not heard of this model til recently; I like the look of it and the price is very reasonable in my view- I may well still go ahead anyway as Im not remotely interested in performance at anywhere over motorway cruising speeds
There are still a handful new for sale in the UK
Maybe at my age I don't need to worry too much about long-term spares availability! (However anyone know if there's much after market stuff in the USA ?-my eldest son is a US Citizen)
I should add that success or otherwise in flat-track racing wouldn't affect my decision in the slightest!
Keep the vids coming- Tom
I've spent some time on the Street 750 and 500, briefly rode a Street Rod. The Street is very comfortable and it has decent low end torque, I'd go with the 750 though. The 500 is cheaper but you'll get used to it really quick and it will start to feel underpowered.
Wow that shelf looks good now
Thank you, it's been quite the improvement out there!
I still ride my 750 daily and love it. But I've also put a lot of work and money into it to make it comfortable and more useable for my riding style. I think they axed the line because they underperform in every aspect compared to the competitor's
That did have a lot to do with it, I mean the Suzuki SV650 is a lot more bike. Price wise I could get a Kawasaki Z900 with over 100hp for the price of a Street Rod 750.
I completely forgot they made the street 500/750 and didn't know about the street rod at all. Looking at the specs against Japanese bikes in similar sizes can see why they failed. The Vulkan S walks all over it, and that's the beginner cruiser people make fun of.
Yeah they went into that market half cocked in my opinion. I like the Street Rod but I wouldn't buy it since I could get a Z900 Kawasaki with over 110hp for the same price. That Street Rod should of been dual over head cam from the start and at least 90 to 100 horsepower.
I was thinking about picking one of these up for the low low and trying to do something with it. Scrambler, flat tracker or just hooligan bike it.
Theses bikes have actually done pretty damn well in the hooligan classes, I've been seeing more and more XG's being run.
IMO they were 50+lbs heavier, down 10+hp and $2k more expensive than the japanese competitors. That alone hurt them.
I have to agree, you look at the Street Rod and compare it to a Suzuki SV650, just price alone. Ergonomics were crap on the Street Rod, the single over head cam and weight just couldn't compete.
AMA Pro Flat Track Rules don't allow expensive parts like Titanium vavles .. Did they give HD Special favors as Usual ?
They were poorly laid out in the ergonomic and control department. The exhaust interference with the right foot peg was laughable. They had a Golden opportunity, but like they did with Buell, they wasted it.
Does anyone know if GixxerFoo is related to the Project Farm guy?
i am actualy thinking making scrambler or ADV bike for world travel nex year based on HD Street 750 or HD XR1200 . i am more into XR1200 .
Harley provided it in basically ONE FLAVOR ONLY, Cruiser. The cruiser only design, that being feet forward and a small fuel tank and basically a 50 year old frame concept being short rear suspension and a large rake. And 45hp for a 750cc powerplant is dismal. Had HD extracted their heads from their asses they would have had a winner but as normal they constructed a motorcycle with a NARROW focus, cruiser only with a limited range and not a long range comfort zone all at practically double the price of the competition.
The street rod engine would be a good power plant in a smaller Pan America style bike.
It really would, that engine should of been dual over head cam though.
100% agree. We need a lighter more affordable version of pan am. I’ll buy one right away.
Maybe we will see it, Harley is supposed to have a versions of that Revolution Max engine between 500 and 1250cc.
At 50 years old i brought a street 500 and loved it. Slowest bike in the world but balanced and lovely to ride. Street rod lost it. Who would put bar end mirrors for a bike to go through traffic. Cheers not to mention uncomfortable.
The ergonomics on the Street Rod were awful, l'll just be honest. That pad on the exhaust for your heal had to be total after thought.
I would've been on board to go grab any of these Street series bikes but only if the prices were appropriate. I think that was the biggest issue because it wasn't one of their "premium" bikes despite being priced like it was. I honestly think they could sell like hot cakes if they had something with more definitive cafe racer looks and performance with the 750 engine and drop the price to a point that's competitive with the metric competitors.
I almost bought a Vulcan S before I bought my Sportster. The Vulcan S has ABS as a cheap option, a good gauge, easily customizable ergonomics, and it feels very light. If Harley came out with a smaller V-Rod with modern amenities I'd buy one.
I think we may see something like that with the new custom model they have been showing. It looks like the 48, but it's going to have the 1250 liquid cooled Revolution Max engine. That motor is 150hp in the Pan America.
@@GixxerFoo I'm looking forward to that. Thanks alot! Hopefully, they won't want $20k for it. lol
3 years and 14k mi on my street rod and love it it has fun torquey motor that feels fast its comfortable to ride and handles good great for urban riding i can say it's been more fun riding than the ultra limited and street glide I've owned it could have been I great bike with some tweaking from harley
I really like that Street Rod, I just wish they would of made it dual over head cam. It's got way more power than the Street series, the ergonomics on it really need some tweaking.
I have a street rod 750 and I actually really like it. Light to light I beat all the 600s around me. Minus the few rare 636
They are really pretty quick, they have a lot of low end torque. That's why I like the twins over the inline 4's, you gotta rev those 4's to moon and by the time they are running good you are out of road.
Miss the old shelf. Added an element of anticipation.
Hell yeah loved the old shelf too. Also great vids and info. Always watching for next one
True, I used to shiver with an - tic - ip - ation.
The new one does kinda kill the suspense.
Thank you!
Me too, trying to work under it was a lot of fun lol.
this was a great topic. looks like the 500 and 750 are now in India now. is that right. also did the Number "1" that harley uses come out of flat tracking. just curious. thanks and good job.
Thank you, yes the number 1 logo came out of their racing program. Harley has actually pulled out of foreign markets, they were building their Street Series bikes overseas for those markets. But they kept production here on the street series for the American Market. The Street 500 was actually a very large and expensive motorcycle for India. I am not sure if they are still on track to sell that rebranded and restyled 350 in China or not, haven't heard much about that lately.
I've ridden the street 750,I like it
I like the liquid cooling,the handling is good, brakes need improvement but what motorcycle can't use better brakes?
Overall I think the street 750 is a decent bike,
Actually never gave them much thought BUT as usual, really enjoyed your presentation. I suggest the newer unseasoned HD salesmen watch ALL your videos religously!.
Thank you! It's really disappointing to me that sales staff don't know more about the product they are selling.
@@GixxerFoo I live in the middle of 5 really nice dealerships in metro Detroit. Most of them looking for sales staff (spring). One even offering $1000.00 hire in bonus.
You are great and know your stuff I love your videos keep up the good work. Harley Davidson should listen to you because they are totally clueless lol.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
What a lot of people don't know, the street gx motor is a Revolution motor, the vrod is a Revolution X, and now the sportster has the revolution max
That new Revolution Max is an awesome engine! The Street Rod should of been dual overhead cam though, the single may of worked for the cruiser style of the Streets but the Street Rod needed DOHC.
Ive been thinking seriously of buying a Street Rod in the UK; when you say its failed does this mean its been discontinued and dealers here are selling off 'old stock'?
great teacher
3:00 that bike looked good
my local HD shop wouldn't bring in a street rod 750 for me to buy, or the roadster... they said I would want to get a fatboy or a used dyna instead. didn't even try to hear/listen to where I was going or doing with the bike... I maybe older but I'm not dead.
Really? That's pretty bad, I mean they are there to sell the customer what the customer wants. I'm sorry that bothers me that they wouldn't sell you what you're after and trying to talk you into something with higher dealer profit margin.
Absolutely hated the 500 I had to ride for my class, never fit and could not reach controls properly, but yeah it's light and you can flick it .
I like the street rod 750 also a newer rider so I guess that fits
I got one suggestion as to why it failed I never even knew they was bikes existed until today when I saw it on your actually I think they're good looking bikes and had I known they were out there on the market more than likely I probably would have bought one
They were pretty cool bikes honestly, they just never really caught on. The dealers didn't really even buy into them much either.
I rode sport bikes for a long time. After I got on a Harley there was no looking back. Not even at the style of one. I don't know what it is that Harley is going to do to appeal to the younger riders but it's gotta be fast and it's gotta be cheap.
That's Harley's biggest issue is making it cheap, a Harley can be fast but it cost a lot to get one there. I didn't even consider Harley till I got older, when I was younger a sport bike was the biggest bang for the buck and still is.
I wish I could talk to the executive board on Harley Davidson and do a "Force Choke" on them! Know your competition and build it to beat them. The bike must also look good, Very Good. Add amenities like USB/phone chargers, etc.
On a side note:
Kids now a days don’t ride bicycles any more. A bicycle provides the basics for riding a motor cycle, braking, counter steering, and leaning into a turn. When I was a kid I put cards in the spokes to make it sound like a motor cycle. So naturally I move on to motorcycles when I was in high-school.
The population in the USA seems to be moving away from riding. Heck, hardley anyone drives a car with a manual trany anymore which makes learning to operate a cluch all that more difficult. So as the motor cycle population shrinks Harley Davidson needs to kick start (PUN) its game to get and keep the younger people that want to ride.
Also, Harley should consider offering BIG discounts on riding lessons to bring them into the dealer, and free leassons when a new rider buys a new bike. Advertise like crazy on the radio, everyone listens to the radio going to work.
For a young rider, a riding school will also get you a discount through your insurance, just say’n.
Harley has done a lot better by focusing on what they are known for and that's the high end big bikes. They really dropped the ball trying to get into the entry level market.
@@GixxerFoo Yup, thats my point.
Brother, what's with the hand movements????. Not hating, just an observation.. I dig your channel man, no hard feelings. You have alot of good information thats interesting
All good, lol it keeps it from being a silent movie I guess. Thank you for supporting us on the channel!
Its called being animated. You should try it sometime.
They looked Japanese and weren’t anything special. You just have to wonder about Harley sometimes.
They tried to make a cheaper option but they still had a premium price for what it is.
Ha Ha
I just noticed You Replaced That Old Broken Down Shelf Behind You , above Your Head
Way to Go Budd ..
😄😂 it held on for a long time
Nice shelf
Thank you! Much better than the old one!
I would like to see a hooligan style street version of the Pan America. The 1250 revolution max is rated at 150 hp at 9000 RPM.
Harley has that high performance custom model that looks like a 48 and has the 1250 engine. Hopefully they follow it up next year with that new bike, it's got the power if they do nothing more than keep it 150hp.
I think they ought to redesign the street series. The younger generation are looking for a cheaper, better tech bikes. Not a 20k bike
A lot of the styling really seemed like an afterthought on the Street series, they could of done a lot better.
I've seen these bikes up close and they looked unfinished. Looked to me as if it was Harley's metric bike or disposable bike . It just didn't have Harley's look
It was really Harley keeping the cost down, when I saw them and road them they stuck out like a sore thumb in a Harley dealer. They seemed to fit more on the show room of a power sports dealer. But all in all they were decent bikes and handle pretty well for what they are.
What is your background? Are you a HD tech?
I basically grew up in a dealership and spent a lot of time looking over the shoulders of mechanics until they let me get in there work with their supervision. Worked every department in the shop and just learned the business front to back.
On paper, the 750 should have been able to spank the old XR-750.
Something went very wrong.
Yeah the race prepped bikes should, Vance & Hines came up with their own dual overhead cam head. The engines will produce more power in race trim but the biggest issue they had in racing was getting the power to the ground. That's were the XR750 wins out was the power delivery to the ground.
Good theory, but IMO most riders don't care squat about racing. The problem with Street was the bike itself. People responded to it as "Just another Japanese bike" with the only thing Harley-Davidson about it being the emblems. If you want a Japanese bike you go to a Honda or Yamaha dealer, not a Harley-Davidson dealer. How HD will overcome this perception bias isn't clear, but PanAmerica may be it. That bike promises a whole different new lifestyle plus it doesn't have a Japanese bike persona as much as Street. Not sure what PanAmerica looks like beyond its own blocky, kinda ugly self, but my hunch is that it will succeed far better than Street ever did because of the adventure bagger lifestyle that comes with it. Put another way, if you show up at Sturgis on a Street, guys will sneer. Show up on PanAmerica and some of them at least will be secretly jealous!
I for sure have to agree with you, I think the Pan America is going to open a lot of door for Harley. The Street to me a lot of it was an after thought, the Pan America has the power it's priced competitively with its competition. I just hope they follow it up with that 1250 high performance custom that looks like the 48.
The Street tank just didn't seem to fit right.
They are wide, really too wide where your legs hug the tank but that's just how I felt riding the Street series.
Say goodbye to thumbs up in any remarks because Google is getting rid of all of those options
Yeah I don't know what or why google is doing that, probably don't want to know either lol.
I think the reason for the Street series failure is a bit simpler. In fact, they may have succeeded as some other brand. But they were clearly NOT Harleys. They did not look like Harleys, they did not feel like Harleys, and perhaps most importantly, they did not sound like Harleys. A Harley is not just a brand, it is a TYPE of motorcycle, and simply sticking the Harley Davidson name on it does not make just any motorcycle a Harley. A Harley has a long stroke 45 degree single crankpin engine with pushrod valves. It has a very unique feel and sound that no other motorcycle has. That is what you are buying when you buy a Harley. That is why the VRod failed, that is why the Street series failed, and that is why the new "Sportster" will fail. I suspect the Pan America will fail as well. There is a lot of hype about it right now, but when the dust settles, people are going to go right on buying the big KTMs and BMWs just like they always have. Harley Davidson should have stuck with what they knew how to build. Harleys.
Harley really has to reinvent itself and they really hadn't laid any of that ground work ahead of Street, they just kinda dropped it out there lol.
Is the 2019 softail m8 motor a good motor ?
Couple of guys that i know that own them havent had any isseus yet. 20.000-40.000 km's
@@TheNostorian thanks
They had a few issues in the first couple of years. Buy I chalk that up to new design hiccups. Biggest issue with modern Harleys are the hydraulic clutches. They've been dealing with sudden clutch failures since 2013. This year Harley went to all cable clutches, guess they felt that was easier (cheaper?) Than correcting the Hydraulic clutch issue.
I think that's the real reason they went back to all cable clutches. Must be the clutch design on the air cooled bikes that doesn't jive well with hydraulic clutches. The Vrods did just find with the hydraulic clutch system.
With a 2019 you should be good, they had oil sumping issues on 2017 for sure and some 2018 models. But by 2019 I think they got the problem fixed, a vented dip stick still wouldn't be a bad idea though.
My two biggest problems with the street series were they were way too small motorcycles and they looked far too much like a Honda shadowMy wife has a 2007 Honda shadow 750 and I refer to it as an overgrown moped because they are definitely made for short people there enough do you not made for someone 6'3".
They are a really tight fit, the pegs are high and they did have taller bars but still that's cramped. Kinda funny seeing Harley copy the metrics after years of the metrics copying Harley.
The shadow was often called a shadow of a Harley. There are plenty of cheap low mileage used shadows for sale. We bought my wife's shadow 3 years ago. It had 7,000 miles on it and cost us $2,000.
Harley-Davidson Corp. always looks at the bottom line. Entry level bikes have a very low profit margin. R&D cost money that for the most part will take years to recoup if the line is successful. The labor cost to produce in the US is much higher than foreign cost.
Yeah they just didn't really fully commit to the Street line, the styling really seemed to reflect that.
It was down to the marketing really, they needed to push into the mainstream to attract new riders and convert metrics. Getting the name out there and positioning it away from the old guard and, sorry to any fans out there, flattrack is way too niche and means nothing to those outside of it. And this is my most controversial opinion - bringing it out under the Sportster name would have done a lot of the hard work for them. They're already considered the entry level and non-Harley riders wouldn't know the difference
That's a very good point, these bikes just really never got any traction or a following of any kind.
@@GixxerFoo I'm willing to bet that most non-riders who love the brand name wouldn't even know that the Street exist
40 horsepower? Water cooled, overhead cam? 40 horsepower? Harley dealership pricing? No Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3, Stage 4, strategy.
Pretty simple. 100 horsepower, 400 pounds. Put a price tag on the MFer.
They really should of been dual overhead cam from the start. Revolution Performance makes big bore kits for the Streets, but the power output really doesn't justify the cost.
They look like beginner bikes that were too heavy from the start and were worthless after you bought them
There was a lot to be desired on those Streets, they just charged too much for what they were honestly.
Do you remember the Harley Baja 100?
I do! Actually there's a guy in town that has a pristine one sitting in the corner of his shop! It's dirty and buried but it clean, not even a dent in the tank!
Pretty sure the Live Wirer will be a flop as well (too $$$ and had the one burn up at Daytona). At least the Pan America is one that should appeal to most of the HD demographic.
My local dealer here in Western Australia has dropped the Livewire price from $50,000 to $42,500 (that's about $5,600 USD under the new price) for a demo model that's only got about 1,200 miles on it. The dealer is driving the depreciation already! Wait for the new Triumph TE1 and nobody will want a Livewire.
The Live Wire is just too expensive in my honest opinion, I think the Pan America will be a hit though.
That's crazy for a dealer to drop the price that much already. The Live Wire is really something everyone wants to test ride but no one really wants to put that kind of money down for one. Unless you're just wealthy and want one.
@@GixxerFoo The PanAm engine looks to be a real gem. I love the fact that it's got the chain driven overhead cams but still use hydraulic lifters.
@@GixxerFoo Think that the V-Rod should still be available, proved it's self at the drag strip.
I'm only 70.5in, I sat on the 500, not no way in .... I would ride one, they shoulda stuck with the Buell Blast
I see you got a real carpenter to fix that shelf
Lol the real carpenter was my wife, she's pretty good at wood work. I stay in my lane and turn the wrenches. I sure wish Buell would of stuck around, Harley could sure use those bikes right now.
There's just no reason to keep beating a dead horse. Buell is over move on.
I liked it dude
Thank you! I appreciate it!
If they would've designed it to look like the Iron 883 - and did it as a softail version - they would've FLOWN out of the dealerships.
Price too was an issue...if almost the cost of a Sportster, just go with the Sportster.
I would have to agree with that, styling was bit strange to me.
Yeah for a little bit more money I would of popped for the Sportster too.
I think it boiled down to salesman someone else mentioned the good ol’boys salesman even gixxerfoo calls it it a great little bike but come on man it’s faster than most of the giant air cooled v twins if you rule out the vrod it’s in the top 5 maybe even too 3 fastest I do t get it
That Street Rod version was no slouch, it runs pretty dang good honestly!
Rode a 500 and hated it. Shifter sucks and response to throttle was bad. Turned me off on harley
I would have to agree, especially on the 500 I rode for a weekend. Those bikes were pretty well used and abused, of course the clutch well wore but the transmission I noticed felt like gear mesh. It was like the tolerances weren't meshed very well at all.
I don’t know anyone that follows bike racing. But all of us understand that if you showed up at a Harley event on any of these bike nobody would be buying you a beer. At the same time I understand Harley Davison has got to find a way to appeal to the younger generation or they will die when we do. Theirs always India…
The reason you gave for these failing initially is the same reason the livewire is going to fail - well, that and its ridiculous price. I also forsee the pan america and the streetfighter failing pretty hard as well. Harleys base won't buy them and other companies honestly make adventure bikes and streetfighters much better than harley will for cheaper.
I have some high hopes for the Pan America, they put a lot more thought and engineering into it. The price, features and power are on par with the competition. Hopefully it will catch on, l've rode the BMW and KTM models, impressive bikes and what l've seen of the Pan America so far it's all there. Bit won't know for sure until l actually get on one.
@@GixxerFoo i won't be mad if I'm wrong. I just don't think I will be. But I'm rooting for HD
Ugh! Harley has a bad habit. Shooting itself in the foot. They did it with Buel. They did it with the Dyna. They did it with the V-Rod, the Streets and anything not a current Glide.
If it was me in charge. "Hey, Eric, here's a few V-Rod Engines. See what you can do with them". "Engineering. Figure out how to shrink the V-Rod down to 500 & 750. Let's take advantage of all that R&D we spent millions on. Also fix the Sumping problem on the 8. Hot Rodders can do it WTF CAN'T YOU". "Willie. Get your department in order. The crap y'all are sending out the door look like kaka".
That's basically how it's gone, giving Eric Buell a call would of been a smart idea on their part.
They failed because Harley turned their back on the bike. They came out with it and didn't really offer any accessories. Fun bike to ride but Harley should know that Harley riders like to customize their bikes.
They really didn't put a lot of effort into offerings for those bikes, the aftermarket really didn't pick up on them very well either.
As always, harley is way behind the times. They were late with the crotch rocket. Then they wanted younger customer base and they axed the dyna. They just have their heads up their asses. Their only hope is to get rid of the profit mongers in the board room and get back to the love of American muscle. Yea I know I'm dreamin.. great video tho. Your an encyclopedia brotha.
Thank you, yeah didn't make any sense when the younger crowd caught on to the Dyna and they killed the line off!
@@GixxerFoo honestly i'm glad they killed the dyna. the low Rider S is a far superior machine than to the dyna suspension and frame wise. and the low rider S doesn't have the death wobble issue either that dynas where naturally prone to.
The Street Rod should have been more like the concept sport motorcycle.
It really should of, but that motor in my opinion should should of been dual overhead cam. It's competition is the SV650 and MT07 in that class, they really left a lot on the table with that bike.
It would seem Pretty kewl for my sister.
And this statement is why HD will be selling nothing but Tshirts and ball caps in 10 years.
They really aren't bad bikes to get started on.
@@LARGO125 WOW that 's a heavy burden!
There's a guy close to here he is a tech for the timing association that runs Bonneville he has a great line of bullshit & talked HD into giving him a street 500 for a run at Bonneville they had all kinds of tuning issues & tried for several years to run Bonneville with no success that I have heard ! My neighbor has a 750 he is one hell of a rider & says it will barley do a decent wheelie ! Those bikes are basic transportation only ! FAIL !!!!
They should of been dual overhead cam from the get go, they didn't put 100% into these bikes.
Maybe they should have marketed the the small bikes as perfect for smaller people or women they used to call sportsters girl bikes. A little harley is not for a big man used to heavy machines. And we all know a 750 Suzuki will leave a 750 harley behind. Something about 4 cylinders. I thought harley should have made a V4 long time ago. The Yamaha vmax has like 200 hp. But I'm a harley guy on a 94 heritage and don't care to go faster than 70.
They really tried to target new riders and they used the 500 for the Riding Academy, but they really could of done a lot better in terms of marketing and ergonomics. The motors were only single overhead cam which they should of been dual overhead cam. The Street Rod got some improvements with a dual throat throttle body and hotter cam, but a Suzuki SV650 would still run circles around it.
I thought the XR 750 would be forever.
That bike had really been developed so much over the years, just very expensive to run one. They need a new bottom end after every grand national race, they had them revving to 9K RPM.
Just like with the V-Rod VR racing bike the vr1000 never finished the race if you had an old Flathead kr750 race bike it would win the race because the motor would last the whole course of the race where is the vr1000 would be a dnf and that shows just how pathetic Harley has gotten it's really a sad State of Affairs everything involving Harley it's truly sad they used to be one of the winningest motorcycle companies in the world and then they create B that can't last one single race I think the best of vr1000 did was like searching this place one time and One race and that was it Harley is almost starting to look as bad as bsaa Triumph did in the 70s and that was truly pathetic as well
Looks like the street 750 had the hp of a sportster1200 and the torque of the 883
I think these bikes failed because the people who are interested in buying them are fairly new or young riders. These people do thorough research about the bike and the manufacturer before buying it. The after sales services and support from the official Harley Davidson dealerships are appalling. This ranges from poor workmanship when servicing or repairing bikes to unacceptable long waiting periods for out of stock spares to arrive. All other manufacturers offer much better after sales service and support.
I would have to agree, these bikes weren't going to have parts in stock like the did for all the air cooled models.
Harley-Davidson are their own worst enemy. Their design teams bring out these bikes that should sell good for younger riders, but they completely fail in the marketing and getting the dealerships and sales people on board. The Pan America will be the test if it fails and they drop that line it is completely their own fault because the adventure motorcycle market is the fastest growing market in powersports.
Only because "It WaSn'T a ReAl HaRlEY!"
That's part of the problem, most people in the market for a Harley want the Harley sound. Harley just hasn't been able to get out of that box and get people interested in anything over head cam with Harley on the tank.
@@GixxerFoo true. Im restoring a 1972. XLCH and I'm sure someone will call it a "girl's bike" and not a real harley too.
Calm down with the hands bro. 😂