Ghost's Tobias Forge on Satan, Religion and Belief CHRISTIANS REACT! ... this could get UGLY!
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2022
- PART 1 Tobias Forge discusses his thought process on Satan, Religion and Belief. Christians react... this should be interesting!
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religious people will never understand that you dont need to obsess over an old book to have morals
Tobias is 100% correct period.
No...there is no period just because you say it. He is perfectly entitled to his thoughts, but he's not spouting anything complex that we all haven't questioned before. Faith is a vastly complex feeling..
No way you're going to bow tie it up in one sentence and call it a day. That's simple minded and cowardly.
i can appreciate the image of Jesus because teaches about virtue, self-sacrifice and altruism while Satan represents free-thinking, creativity and rebellion. Both useful and necessary values to cultivate.
I was raised catholic in Europe. As someone interested in all genders romantically, I was repeatedly told it was unnatural and a sin. I was made to feel guilty for being who I am, despite harming nobody. I left religion behind because I felt like it was a way to control people based on one person/a group of people’s lives. Ghost go out of their way to make everyone feel welcome at a show, it’s the most incredible thing I’ve ever been apart of. So he’s not wrong. He’s still out there, going out of his way to thank everyone for coming to see them even if it might be a struggle. He’s so humble and grateful, even in his stage persona.
It is true. People that fits "LGBT" (not talking about the community, but rather the sex orientation) are very oppressed inside a religious group, especially catholicism. And I'm very sorry about that.
However, it's important to know how to differenciate a religous group or institution from the religion itself. Men took the idea of Christianity and transformed it into something they can use to manipulate other people, or to control. But that's not the idea of the religion itself.
I'm a christian myself, and I sin every single day because that's my nature, that's human nature. The sin you commit is just as bad as the sin I commit. From my point of view, this is what most of the christians miss, and they lose their time judging someone else's sins, and sometimes even hating on those people for being just as human. Unironically, they are sinning just by doing that and deviating from the teachings.
I understand that the only way to minimize how often one sins is to follow the Lord's and Jesus' teachings. However, following this teachings does NOT mean that one is willingly choosing to be oppressed.
Following the teachings is, first of all, understanding that we, as humans, can be very evil, twisted and sinful. Is to understand that we are not perfect creatures, rather we are very much flawed - and that these imperfections can very well lead to ruin, not only in a phylosofical way, but mentally and physically too. So we _need_ something to keep us on the rails. How so?!
Well, if we look at the teachings in a simplistic way, we would conclude that at their core they're rules, and rules are important to keep a system in check and functional, or even healthy - the system, here, being our human nature.
If we would exclude the rules, then men would be beastly and libertine. Well, there are many that already are even with the existence of the rules, imagine a society without them at all.
Now, let's imagine a world without rules, or teachings (might they be from Christianity or not). What would become of society?
Each individual has his own way of being bad or evil; of being curious about this or that they're not really supposed to be part of, or to try. These temptations would start to flourish, and it would be very hard not to fall for them. I'd argue that not falling for it wouldn't even happen because the idea of "not supposed to" wouldn't exist.
But trying these things out can be very dangerous.
Let's say, for example, drugs. You could argue that drugs are dangerous and objectively bad, and that no one would try it. Yet, even with the "rules" we have and knowledge about it, people still try it, and many people are made slaves to them. Imagine what the idea of not having boundries for it could make to the masses...
Well, how about sex, then? Sex is dangerous! In many ways, it is dangerous, especially for women. Women, biologically, are more sensitive to sex. That are many hormones and brain chemicals that become active during sex - for both genders.
During sex, you're supposed to feel attached to the other, it's supposed to happen in a relationship where there's genuine feelings and mutual trust.
But when the act is performed between two people that don't really feel for one another, or that don't really know or trust each other (or more, depending on how these people would want to express their drive or curiosity), not only does the brain get in a state of "confusion" to the point that it affects negatively the way one feel or see people around them, but also it leads to a scenario of pure danger. Anything is possible. And it's also a situation that one is very vulnerable.
Deliberate sex spreads diseases, can lead to abortion or undesired children, which will soon lead to a thorned society...
That's why sex is "designed", or thought to be between two people that know one another very well and are very intimate. And here, gender or sexuality has nothing to do it, it doesn't matter, as long as you're following concepts that don't put yourself or the other in danger.
The list goes on...
So can see how rules are important to humanity. Even though they don't make us perfect, it keeps us on the tracks.
It's in this idea that Christianity comes into play. The teachings and preachings are to be held as the "ultimate rules". Those that come directly from God. Surely, the Creator knows what's best for us, what's necessary for us not to fall into ruin, so He left the teachings through many ways, especially through Jesus Christ. (I'm now expressing myself like this because I believe in God).
Nowadays, we live in a society that is slaved to a twisted idea of freedom, and people become so self-absorved in their idea of being free from rules or expressing themselves, mostly in a hedonistic way, that they often lose their sense of what freedom actually is.
Freedom is not living without rules. Freedom is, in my opinion, a way to express and put into practice your virtues and values without having something to hold you back, while having commandments or rules to keep you within the boundries, and that attempts to make you not to screw up your own life and body. There's a difference between the two ideas, whilist they walk hand to hand.
I think this is a perfect opportunity to talk about Satan. Satan is, keeping it short, the opposite of what the rules want to convey. Satan wants humanity to break from the rules and to express their nature at the fullest, because this drives one's soul and thoughts away from values, virtues, God's teachings, etc.
The evil Satan represents is actually the evil in a sense that is opposed to what is good (for us). It sounds like an obvious sentence, right? Haha
But what I want to say is that Satan wants humanity very far away from what keeps us within boundries (of what is good).
He's been achiving this in many ways, and one of the most successful ways is him whispering to humanity that he's not real.
That said, let's head back to the initial topic:
You shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed about what you are, you beliving in God or not.
People who are oppresing you for what you are and judging it as a sin shouldn't get the best of you. Don't let that happen.
The idea, might you be gay or not, is not to go against the teachings (the rules) by living a rebelious or hedonistic life, because that will be objectively bad for you. And doing harm to youserl makes God very sad because He loves you!
Instead of living the "freedom" Devil wants you to live, live a life worth living. Evolve your thoughts, your soul, build up values, use your virtues for the greater good...
(I'm not saying that you don't already, I'm just emphasizing)
Men, unfortunately, made religious into something very "hateful", and that's a shame.
P.S.: This is a very long comment. I wrote it on a cellphone, and English is not my first languague. So I ask you to forgive any typo or bad grammar. LoL
And yeah, I like Ghost. They have very good songs!
There is a big difference between making someone feel "bad" due to useful criticism that might help them to improve and telling someone that they are so intrinsically awful that they deserve to suffer for all of eternity (and the only reason they wont is because the creator of the universe is merciful and loving, which prevents said creator from giving that person what they actually deserve). Telling a child that they deserve to be tortured forever (what I was told in Church) is what Tobias was talking about when he referred to being made to feel bad. His gripe with the church was not that he is against some common sense moral instruction with sensible limits on behavior. C'mon man.
Yeah I hear ya. But what if that’s true. I’m in my mid 30s. And the longer I’ve been alive the more I think human beings are pretty awful Lol.
@@jebadiahfyefye8994 The longer I live the more I see that most people are just confused beings trying to make the best of a bad situation in their very flawed way. Most of us are ignorant about much and scared of so many things. Despite that, I've seen people go the extra mile for others in many displays of generosity and compassion. The idea that we deserve endless suffering, and a strictly Just creator would give every single human that ever lived exactly this, goes against my lived experience. If anything, reality could do with less horrendous suffering and despair, not infinitely more of it.
I think these guys didn't understand at all what Tobias was saying, they took it in the wrong way.
@Melissa Bond Do they ever though lmao. They always seem to take his lyrics or messages in the wrong way.
@@TECfan1 true, every video I see about them is like they take everything too personal, especially the guy.
Great discussion. What I think often gets overlooked is that the problem isn't with JESUS, it's with THE CHURCH. It's the church manipulating and interpreting the Bible in ways that have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ, and everything to do with control, even greed. The Church has condemned marginalized people for centuries, and it aggressively furthers their marginalization. The world would be a much better place if Christians would universally reject the hateful and controlling teachings of their church and adhere to the actual teachings of Christ - kindness, selflessness, humility, love, peace... all that hippie stuff.
Jesus was actually a dick. Very coercive. Well, the jesus in the stories at least. We have no idea what the real jesus was like. The gospels simply cannot be trusted.
I'd agree, except for the part where Jesus told the slaves to obey their masters, even the cruel ones.
Yup! Even when I went thru my justifiably angry anti-theist stage I still had an appreciation for Christ as a political figure. Mostly bc his "politics" were pretty much the opposite of today's christain politics
@@gilly_axolotl it depends which sect you align yourself with, but yes. Personally, I'm an atheist with a healthy respect for Christ's ethos, at its bare minimum. Sometimes humans get it right. I'm pretty sure he tried, if he even existed. The tales and parables are so twisted together at this point that you can't know for sure, but I think we can at least assert that this theoretical person preached forgiveness and demanded self-reflection from the powerful. That, sadly, has been lost.
Yup, except we don’t know for sure what Christ’s actual teachings are, since the Bible contradicts itself all the time ( was written by different people in multiple generations so makes sense ). So it’s almost as if people should just try to do good things and not do bad things instead of always looking for a doctrine to follow, whether it’s the “right one” or not
A few years ago me and a friend went to see Ghost. We were staying at a hotel in Charlotte, NC right by the venue. We kept hearing loud noises and thought people were listening to their TVS too loud. We start walking over to the venue and soon realize what all the loud Noises were. A church group were in front of the auditorium protesting with loud speakers and marches. They were handing out pamphlets and saying we were going to Hell. We were just there to watch a show, not to commit crimes. That is a better indication of some of what he is talking about.
Yes. And maybe Vin and Sori would never be out there protesting, but they don't represent Christianity as a whole. Overall it is a menace
I mean Satanism and bands like Ghost are literally designed to mimic what they see as the greatest evil in order to mock them, what do you expect?
@@MudHut67 i have the right to offend you and you have the right to be offended.
But if my jokes get so offesive for you that you try to rob me of my freedom you are doing something wrong.
If you look at it from a very shallow point of view ghost is just a music group making catchy songs.
If that honestly offends you to the point where you feel the need to threaten their fans with eternat torture for liking the music i dont see the reasoning behind that.
Threatening with eternal torture is a bit more evil than music which ridiculous very specific religious beliefs in my opinion.
Then again all of this is subjective moral standards. Think what you want and let me think what i want.
@@Skurian_krotesk you said nothing of substance or consequence, your just parroted what you saw other people say
@@MudHut67 that is a weird argument because usually Christians are the ones who repeat stuff over and over again since the last 2 millenia whithout thinking about the stuff they try to preach.
While the atheist movement is relatively young because only recently have people figured out whqt immense bullshit the church is spreading.
Well at least in comparison to the age of your moral system it is young.
Galileo Galilei lived like what 400 years ago?
Humans evolve to get smarter and smarter.
You stich to the opinion of people that lived two thousand years ago while i am occupied with recent scientific findings.
Who do you think has a bigger chance of finding the truth?
Ghost is such a great band
Indeed. Im seeing them for the first time next month. Cannot wait.
Not better than mayhem
@@mikescaserra3069 yeah right lol
Nema!
Slipknot ?
Used to have a bumper sticker: I love God, but I hate his fan club. Pretty much has summed up my feelings of this entire debate. In every instance I have experienced in which religion becomes socialized it also becomes ugly, even if it's not readily apparent. I feel much better having a private relationship with my beliefs and allowing my moral framework to evolve with life experience. I do not trust churches or anyone who claims to know the mind of god and what it wants, especially when those wants seem to line up so specifically with their own wants.
@Lyn Ghost
Which clowns? The reactors? Or did you mean Ghost?
Its incredible to watch what religion does to the critical thinking skills of otherwise intelligent people. You are way out in left field and do not honestly evaluate what people are actually saying. Also, I feel like you arent really spending any time whatsoever listening to his actual thoughts and just chasing rabbits and fallacies around a dark room.
*ooop* 🤭🤐😶
Nailed it
Yea, I think he is missing the point.
Thank you 🤝🏻🤝🏻🤝🏻🤝🏻🤝🏻
You can literally turn what you just said back around at what Tobias was saying lol. Obviously he has his own biases against Christianity/Christians formed by his personal experiences. I try not to judge based on bias & rather the individual themselves. Tobias said most Christians are horrible people when a lot of people period are horrible regardless of if they’re Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, etc.
Ghost has a way to draw us in more than any other band we love. Tobias is a genius..
Tobias is far from being the driving force behind Ghost. Ghost itself is great, but Tobias is just the face of it. Take a look at who produces ghosts music and who actually writes their songs.
@@dustmemory9891 You are totally wrong. Tobias is Ghost. The rest of the band change between their tours. On Ghost studio albums Tobias play all the instruments except the drums.
@@hemligx-sson8202 look at the writing credits for the new album, almost every song is co-written by someone else who isn't even part of the band. Same thing for prequell, meliora, infesstisumam and (probably) opus dei.
And think about the impact the producer has on the overall sound of the band. Try listening to some of the other bands that raskulenicz produced for example. Somehow after opus dei all of ghosts albums have been produced by some well-established industry giant and their sound has reflected that. That's due to the producers influence, not Tobias'.
The whole schtick of ghost is that they're a soulless golem being manipulated by a greater power, the liner notes for their albums prove that. Really, we have no way of discerning who actually writes their music, we don't even know for sure that it's actually Tobias behind the mask when they perform live (it for sure isn't Tobias in the music videos). Tobias is just the face of the act for when they do interviews.
@@dustmemory9891 Yes co-written! That wasn’t what you wrote. Thera are no true band members only Tobias. The rest are just in there for the tour.
@@hemligx-sson8202 no, ghost is a media entity created by a group of producers and industry insiders, Tobias is (supposedly) the lead singer who also does all the interviews for the band.
I loved this discussion, it's fascinating to hear your opinions on Tobias' views.
You should consider the fact that Sweden is the most secular country in the world. You can have control without religion, and religion should have no part in how a country is governed. I was baptized and have done my confirmation, but I am not religious in any way. We learn about all major religions early on and all through school, so us swedes are often quite well informed on religion and different belief systems, even though we don't take part ourselves. For me personally, I am not a fan of The Church, and I hate what some people do in the name of religion.
HOWEVER, I love and respect what religion can bring people in the form of comfort and support, and I would NEVER try to take that away from someone.
This was a brilliant response. I hope you stick around for more of these!!
Wow. I am so envious of Swedes. I cannot emphasis how much your country intrigues me. I love that The Church is powerless there and gods are of no value, yet its one of the safest and peace loving countries in the world. So many things I’d love to ask you. lol
@@modeltraintherapy5376 You're more than welcome to ask about anything, I'll do my best to answer whatever questions you might have! :)
@@SaraW013 oh well thank you so much!!!!!!
Ok. Well the first thing I would ask is this; in an interview with Tobias before his identity had been made public, he said that being religious in Sweden is viewed as being a dumb person. I could tell by the way he said it, almost sheepishly, that seemed to convey that he really meant it. He didnt want to say it, but he couldnt help that it fell out so bluntly. Is that true? Is it really a super rare thing to see someone who lives a ‘christian life’ there in your daily life? Do swedes tend to lean towards any other ‘spiritual paths’ instead or is science based atheism really a more common thing? Be as elaborate as you want. I’ll read every last drop. lol
I would have strong opinion of another religion not Christianity if I was a Swede.
This conversation took quite a turn lol...Did I miss the part where he said there should be total freedom with no limits or restraints?
Sure check out what he said about religion in 5:40, he then dichotomized Satan with that. If he’d have given a more nuanced definition of terms the response would have matched it.
@@VinAndSori In the context of his statement I don't think he meant "total freedom without limits or restraint". He spoke of Humanism in the same breath which is typically centered on compassion and rationality. He also made a very clear distinction between the "pop-culture Devil" and the religious Devil as a personification of Evil. It's unfair to assume he meant the worst possible interpretation of 'freedom'. It would be like someone taking your ideal of moral responsibility + personal restraint and twisting it into how you want everyone to be celibate ascetics that renounce all desire and shut themselves off from the world. I could be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if you and Tobias are not as far off from each other as you seem to think and that there is a much smaller difference between your ideals than you imagine.
@@lvx969 well said. I agree with you completely and I admire your patience.
You should watch the video bc right after I said that I said Tobias himself would t hurt children etc etc. both can be true at the same time. I assumed nothing. He spoke in simple generalities about religion so the response was simple generalities. If it’s good for the goose…
I don’t think I’m far from Tobias either as to what we would consider moral, I just don’t think he’s thought through the ramifications of what he’s saying. For example as I said in the video I’m certain if he had the power he would keep “child loving” illegal but that would be him imposing control mechanisms on the literal millions of folks who disagree on that topic. It doesn’t appear that he has thought that deeply about the ramifications of what he’s saying. Notice he spoke without nuance but those who are trying to defend him, supply the nuance for him.
I was raised in a family where we never talked about religion or politics. Those things didn't matter for my parents. They always said to me to walk my own path and never trust people/organizations who say they know the truth or want you to follow them. Use your own mind and instincts instead they said. As a grown man I am very grateful for what my parents told me. Because of that I can see both sides of things and not get bothered about it. Each to their own. I think there is lots of manipulation going on both sides of the light and the dark. You can't see in the darkness and you can't see when you are blindet by the light.
"I did not hate God or Christ, but merely the God and Christ of the people whom I hated..." was actually Aleister Crowley. Manson seems to have plagiarized it.
Interesting exchange of ideas. Just to be fair, Tobias is exposing his ideas without a chance to reply. Vin is debating them or giving an opinion on them and that is fair given the format. I think the dichotomy on the devil is not perceived as such by Vin who comes from a theological view. My interpretation of what Tobias is saying is that he doesn’t worship a theological devil but rather celebrates a pop culture one that defies establishment and religious constrains.
I believe the risk he takes by doing so is he might invite extremes by followers who don’t see that dichotomy clearly. To disagree with the church one doesn’t need to be an opposer.
I agree with you. Tobia’s “beliefs”, or inspiration, is that of a fictitious character formed by metal and it’s history. What his fans may absorb is probably way different, and is interpreted as the theological devil-especially in the early Ghost days before Tobias’ reveal. Therefor, he is promoting something deeply dark he may not know. I respect his views of just wanting people to be joyous at his shows and to feel that divine feeling with phenomenal music we love, and they probably put on an amazing piece of live entertainment, but I’m seeing a lot of real satanists commenting how happy they are to have him “on board” when he really isn’t-based on these interviews. I feel like Tobias has had a rough world view shaping based on abrasive religious experiences-Catholicism mainly. I’m a Christian but you can bet I’ve experienced my fair share of hypocrisy, toxicity, disappointments, etc in the church. I didn’t let it destroy my faith though. The church is made up of imperfect people inside 4 walls doing their best (although still sinful people). Christianity is in the heart and soul of the individual. Christianity is unfairly judged by conditions of the people inside of the 4 walls…
Vin is a smart dude, but he's strawmanning here. Tobias didn't say he wants absolute freedom or zero controls, and no reasonable person would. We just don't want religion, and its brand of arbitrary controls.
1. Tobias didn’t nuance the dichotomy between control and religion. He used the most general terms in that regard. 2. Who is “we”? Not to be trite, but I was engaging specifically with Tobias and what he said. 3. Whatever constraints and controls you would have for a society would be you forcing it on millions of people who disagree with you. 4. Why would no “reasonable” person not want control mechanisms?
@@VinAndSoritrue, he didn't. But then the principle of charity would say to interpret his statement in the strongest and most reasonable way possible, and respond to that, rather than the weakest version of what he might be saying.
@@VinAndSori you're right, my last statement was confusing. By "we" I meant people like him, and me.
This atheist loves your channel, by the way. :-)
@@jacekiser5876 well said and you are 100 percent right. Vin needs a serious lesson in logical fallacies. I think he’d be stunned by how often he falls prey to them.
Positively and absolutely agree with Tobias Forge! Speak on my man with courage and Truth!
I stand with Tobias the institution of the church historically has caused the most death and destruction. Let GOD be the author of Love like I believe any good Father should.
So far, I’m 20 minutes into this and its a lot of what I expected. I will say this, Humanism isnt unleashing freedom to do as one wishes. Come on, man. What a terrible strawmanning of his position. Kind of wrecklessly, too-I might add. Also, Satanism and Humanism aren’t the same, either. However, speaking for humanism, it seeks through reason to seek the best for mankind; that means from all perspectives including mental health and sexual wellness and health. Therefore, it doesnt not see pedophilia as a good thing-but a heinous act. Terrible for the health and well being of the victim. Even Satanism doesn’t condone sexual advances without the consensual agreement of both parties.
I'm 10 minutes in and just had this realization of an argument one could make; VnS have 'made a living' off of worshipping the devil.
@@BoWeava well, Anton Levay liked to say that the devil has always been the churches best friend as he has kept them in business all these years. Lol. I guess the same can be said for Christian youtubers. Gotta have a boogeyman to ‘save’ everyone from lol 🤷🏻♂️
@@modeltraintherapy5376 lol.yea.but everyone is ultimately trying to save themselves.lol
Have you seen the show Warrior Nuns? They tackle the same topic, which I highly applaud them for. I feel like a lot of people missed that part of the plot points...judging by the looks of the mini reviews I've seen on the series anyhow. It's not usually a topic that most individuals are willing to openly vocalize, but I Believe it's needed.
@@BoWeava where would i see this show?
You should do some research on the Kazahrian Jews who use the Talmud as their guide. The Talmud is satanic and allows pedophilia and child sacrifice to satan.
Free Masons, the 33 degree and above also do child sacrifice in the name of satan and drink their adrenalized blood called ADRENOCHROME.
So your generalized statement that satanism doesn't condone sexual advances without the consensual agreement of both parties is not only stupid but utter ignorant!!
Ask many of the Disney kids and childhood actors who went through hell being raped in the name of satan how that was consensual?
It's pathetic that people as you believe this shit and yet, don't even know how evil satanism really is.
you dont need a rock star to tell about how christianity is about control money and making you feel bad every day joe can say the same thing.. i agree with tobias i had the same feelings what he had as kid and young person towards religion after all im from neighbor country to him..what i have noticed the older i get the more suspicious and critical i get when its about religion and no wonder all this religion stuff is told you when you are a kid cos then you are so blue eyed and cant to question the content of the book. when i resigned from church it was one of the best decisions i have ever made.
It might have been for you. I don’t know your experiences
@@VinAndSori Earliest memory i recall when i was 5 or 6 yrs old some of my parents relatives/or friends old 2 old women said to me that the music i listen to is evil!!! what kind of a adult says that to a child??? and what i remember about the sermons all they can talk about how bad people are making you feel not worthy and seems that a christian priest is above you all.. the ugliest situation its two part story what i have seen and i was ready to kick some ass cos how it enraged me part one this church related work shop had a customer half blind old woman who needed help in her daily life cleaning and stuff and this workshop had the audicity to charge this woman 50 euros for cleaning and i thought christians do charity but apperently not money is the god so the story continues some sort of a priest had the balls to put his hand on this old womans shoulder and speak with loud voice you shall have your eye sight back...i honestly wanted to pummel that guys face beyond regognition. Part 2 same place they had expiring food donations from local supermarket to give to people for free and what happened the bosses of this place took the best for themselves and rest for the clients oh and before the food giving people had to listen to some preacher and his music friends performance before getting the food and this guy says read preaches it is not right to gather possessions and money and after this he says im going vacation to spain!! all the unemployed people all the alcoholics and less fortuned who were the clients here had to listen to this!!! so there is plenty of stories but my english skills are mediocre at best and takes lot of time to write but these few examples should tell you why i hate and dislike christianity or any religion who uses it to this kind of purposes.
@@Necroticnarcosis You are making the mistake of confusing people who call themselves "Christians" with the God of the Bible. God does not like the bad things that you've described, he does not command them, commend them or accept them. You also have a lot of anger issues that are nothing to do with God or religion.
Vin and Sori follow the teaching of Jesus Christ, as do I. Jesus tells us to give to the poor, not to charge them. To love our neighbours, meaning everyone. We are to strive everyday to be more like Jesus. There are many who call themselves Christians when they are not. Jesus said "You will know them by their fruits", meaning their behaviour. So those people you described might not even be Christians. Way too many people call themselves a Christian without any idea what that actually means or what it entails.
30 mins in and these people have never heard about the golden rule. to them it's impossible to have morals without god. they are also saying a group of people having control of another group of people is a good thing. they are clueless
Yep, that's probably why most of us tune in occasionally. Such good fun.
Lol nah bro. The argument is on what basis should I apply the golden rule if I’m simply a random collection of atoms. Why is empathy a value
@@VinAndSori Well being is the basis. It's that simple.
@@VinAndSori Well you don't apply it on the basis that the bible is some kind of moral guide book while it also has answers to why you exist and your point of existing is to please God and his priests.
Ghost just released a new single from their upcoming album "IMPERA", might be something for you to check out for a reaction :)
Call me little sunshine... ghost rules
Whats with the audio skipping on this video?
Looking forward to Tobias' reaction video to Vin and Sori. :D ;P
Tobias would say ‘i cannot meet with these people intellectually’. Literally, thats what he is going to say about this very thing later in the interview montage.
I wonder if they've heard of the concept and reality of High Art?
He mentioned the times when the mating of Art/Religion took place...
I just find the two topics connected, and relevant.
*The first time (in 'modern' times) art was used as an advertising tool to sell a business model?*
Tobias reacting to being called a supporter of pedophiles and massmurder when he actually took stand against those acts in the interview they reacted to. While putting humanism first. He would just shake his head and say "yup.. they for sure are christian".
Completely disagree with what you said about children being born hedonistic. The example you gave to back up as to them needing food and to be changed and etc are bad examples. Children need those things for the basic needs of life. They aren't for PLEASURE. Pleasure are for things that give enjoyment but don't fulfill the basic needs of survival. People need to eat and drink to stay alive. Please rethink this.
Also, its a bit odd to say a surgeon goes to school to WOUND YOU??? No, they go to school to learn how to help people who have suffered wounds to not be suffering any longer with that wound. Your premise here is difficult to follow.
From my understanding, Tobias' background has to do with Catholicism in his childhood. The problem with Catholicism is that humans have taken it upon themselves to manipulate religion to control and for evil ways, and don't even get me started on how the hierarchy of the church equating humans as direct lines to God (aka priests, popes, etc). Doing that is actually so contradictory to what they preach its not even funny. All believers have a direct line to God. One doesn't need to go to a certain human in order to tell God something or to have stronger connection with Him. That connection exists between a believer and God himself through prayer. While there's benefits to religion, there's also so many negatives to it as well.
You bring up the example of the pedos, but then there's these constructs of religion to shield exactly those kinds of people who are in the positions of power, the churches who turned a blind eye and shuffled priests who were molesting kids and weren't facing consequences.
I grew up learning Christian and Catholicism so I know first hand what is taught and ingrained into followers. I consider myself a believer in Christ, but I can't consider being a part of a church or organized aspect of it.
Are you guys censoring out and mute words because both of my headphones can not be broken ?
This brought to mind something I heard in a bible study...a guy was talking about how he felt whenever he went to church. Here it is: "Thanks for playing! Come back next week!" (How's that for not for works, but by faith?)
Id like to say that no matter who you are, you should never judge anyone for their good passions in life, nor tell them to convert into a such "religion" for example: I have a friend who was once interested in learning religion and she put her heart and soul to understand and strive through to become a god worshiper but all she found was that you can find simple happines through your inner self and not have to be religious to feel happy or believe in something, she learnt that everything comes from simple intuition and simple trick of the mind of what plays with your emotions in order for you to think or to believe religion is necessary. Religion is in the past, everyone needs to move and learn for themselves instead of believing in a god in order to make them believe to be a better person is a mind manipulation game, just be yourself.
As a fan of you guys and of ghost, sad to see you guys limiting the video of him and moving on to just make your point as you see it.
Talk and debate over Tobias’ whole interview could literally go on for days. Check out other interviews. I think Tobias is a skilled genuine fellow, but he misunderstands and is misunderstood at the same time. To each his own and the world view that shapes him.
Once again christians twisted what Tobias said.You are worst than politicians
Don't watch the channel then, no one is forcing you to.
Love y'all! You two do a wonderful job with your content
I'd love to see you react to the new Ghost song "Call me little sunshine"
Favorite band.
10:16 not just religion, but specifically Christianity makes you feel like crap and tells people that they’re crap.
Sure does…thats its entire premise. Breaks your leg to give you a crutch.
Yep. Thats the entire premise as it breaks your leg to sell you a crutch.
@@modeltraintherapy5376 That's not what Christianity is at all, that's what the modern church is. Two completely different things. Christianity is in its broadest terms, just a word for a group of people who follow the teachings of Christ. So telling people to love their neighbour makes you feel like crap and tells people they're crap? Umm nope. Logical fail dude.
@@acurisur a christian talking about ‘logical fails’ lololol. Get out of here.
@@modeltraintherapy5376 An atheist thinks the universe was created from nothing. How does that work logically again?
Loved the Tobias part. Fast forwarded everything else.
Why?
@@justletitallend8997 I like the reactions. I don’t like the Christian nonsense
Yea. I always think they'll have something interesting to say but then they don't lmao. Same things I've always heard.
@@TECfan1 exactly
Their show in Portland last night was slamming!
What is funny to me is how people get so uncomfortable about “Satanists” but they don’t understand that Satanists don’t actually worship a deity or even believe in a devil. They are basically an anti religion and are atheists. So while there is imagery and lyrics that pertain to dark satanic things, that’s the whole point. It’s art, it’s proving a point, it’s just a performance.
I recall many of my Christian friend going through many periods where their church made them feel like shit to the point of making them throw out their entire secular music collections repeatedly. I was raised Catholic and they don’t really do those practices, but I witnessed with many friends and family members.
the thing about playing make believe (religion) is that you can make believe whatever you want.
It's just a pathetic shame that make believe (religion) is taken so seriously...
Christianity didn't spread by the quality of its truth, but by the quantity of its violence.
You sure? How’d it spread in the Roman Empire for the first three hundred yrs
Islam did the same thing. and the Jews murdered the "blasphemers" after torturing them. A tradition the Catholics continued with.
@@VinAndSori It spread through force. You should now that if you didn't use the bible as a source.
My issue with Christianity stems from being told the Dalai Lama was going to hell because he didn't believe in the same things when I was younger. And it just totally turned me off to the entire premise. "God" this higher consciousness really has that big of a bloated ego he cares more about what you call him then what you do? Cause the stuff the Dalai Lama represents is more Christian than most Christians. I'm just not buying it. It is not rational at all.
“We can reject everything else: religion, ideology, all received
wisdom. But we cannot escape the necessity of love and compassion....
This, then, is my true religion, my simple faith. In this sense, there is no need
for temple or church, for mosque or synagogue, no need for complicated
philosophy, doctrine or dogma. Our own heart, our own mind, is the temple.
The doctrine is compassion. Love for others and respect for their rights and
dignity, no matter who or what they are: ultimately these are all we need.
So long as we practice these in our daily lives, then no matter if we are
learned or unlearned, whether we believe in Buddha or God, or follow some
other religion or none at all, as long as we have compassion for others and
conduct ourselves with restraint out of a sense of responsibility, there is
no doubt we will be happy.”
― Dalai Lama XIV
Doesn't sound like a person should be going to hell, does it?
That's not why he's going to hell dude, it's because he hasn't made Jesus his personal saviour. It has nothing to do with what YOU do, which is called works. Its what Jesus did on the cross. Nothing you do can save you. Jesus said "I am the way , the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me." He died on that cross so we can go to heaven, by putting our trust and our faith in HIM for our salvation.
This is the basic tenant of the Christian faith, yet so many atheists get it wrong.
@@acurisur That is not rational thinking to think this enlightened beyond our wildest dreams being is such a Narcissistic individual that he cares more about who you pray to then what you do while on this earth. You can be the most horrible person on earth but they are going to let you into heaven cause you prayed to jesus and that doesn't sound like you been getting catfished How do you not see the flaw in all that?
@@jayspin8093 Because God has this thing called the Law, we have this on Earth too no? If you break the law in your country and are caught doing so, you get punished. Why in the blue blazes would you assume it works any differently with God? No one can earn their way into Heaven pal. Even the Dalai Lama has broken God's law, everyone has.
So what you're telling me is that if you were caught speeding and you went to court you'd just say to the judge "Oh look judge, I'm really sorry, I'm a good person, I give to charity every month, I didn't know I was doing 60mph in a 30 zone, I promise I won't do it again, can you let me off?"
That judge is going to look at you and probably laugh first, and then because he's a good judge and sticks to the rules he's going to punish you for speeding. And that's exactly how it works with God. No amount of pleading your case is going to appease a holy God. He's going to punish you for breaking his law.
As for "he cares more about who you pray to then what you do", well yes, that's because Jesus is his son, he was sent by God to this earth to die on a cross for YOUR sins, so that you might be forgiven and go to heaven. It's got nothing to do with praying. You can pray to Jesus and still not go to heaven.
Let's got back to the courtroom example. If you're going to be fined because you were caught speeding and the judge is going to fine you, if another person pays your fine the judge will say you're free to go. That's what Jesus did when he died on the cross. He paid the fine for our sin. Sin means we have broken God's law. If Jesus pays our fine God will absolve us of our sins. But to be forgiven of your sins in the first place you would need to come to Jesus with a repentant heart to begin with. Repent means to change your thinking and stop doing those behaviours that cause you to sin. Ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins and ask him to be your Lord and saviour, ask him to come into your life and change you. Only when you do that will you be forgiven by God for your sins.
You said "You can be the most horrible person on earth" and still get into heaven correct? Wrong. You cannot. And you are thinking in human terms, there is no such thing as more or less horrible to God. You have either broken his law (sin) or you haven't. A "horrible person"
would have had to repent, asked Jesus for forgiveness of their sins and then completely changed their behaviour to get into heaven. As Jesus himself said "you will know them by their fruits" meaning their behaviour. A truly repentant person will change their behaviour and start living as a disciple of Jesus Christ, and strive every day to be more like him, to love God and to love their neighbour (which means everyone basically).
To repeat, no-one gets to heaven by their works as all have broken God's law and must be punished, just as we are punished here on Earth for breaking the law in the country that we live in.
@@acurisur You know what else was law? Jim Crow, Slavery, and hundred years ago you could beat your wife with a broom handle. A lot of dumb laws out there and are you saying The Bible has some dumb laws in it to? Cause I would have to agree
@@acurisur You sound like you are describing a demon. A god that will send people of good to eternal suffering just because they were not taught as a kid to follow the bible. Just because his mother gave birth to him in a different geographical location. While a person evil as the devil still goes to heaven if he says he belong to Jesus? Does that sound "good" to you?
The law for speeding is there to protect us. Its there to do us good.
The law of commiting to Jesus is there to be able to separate people and send the majority of them to burn in eternity for the sake of gods vanity. Does that sound like a good god?
To follow Jesus you need conviction. For a grown person to be convinced he needs to experience convincing events or at least be able to put the clues together in a convincing way. Its not like anyone can say "ofcourse God exist, I'll prove it for you now.". Its not like people know Jesus and exist and deny him as he asks you to join him. Instead you have to make a giant leap in faith while the church is using scare tactics instead of convincing. And for this the best, most innocent men deserves to burn in hell forever? Horrible and cruel!
You guys are good folks, interesting discussion overall. Cheers from a believer from Sweden.
That first argument was made in bad taste. I don't think Tobias was advocating for no laws, more that the church shouldn't have the power to form peoples moral framework for them. Because I'm sure you'd agree there's problematic teachings within the Christian church (and no doubt others but I don't claim to know anything about other religions) pertaining to sexuality in particular that are being pushed upon young and vulnerable people.
No catholic context with Tobias. He's from Linköping which is the swedish bible belt. So either evangelical or swedish lutheran would be his experiences i think
Link to original?
Where is the original video
I enjoyed the debate, but Tobias spoke of the control the Church has on people. Not what control government and laws dictate on people. As a former member of the KoC I've seen a fair amount of the behind the scenes world. I didn't like it. It was more than enough to walk away from the church and I was a happier, calmer, less judgmental person from it. The church creates fear and control. You need to go to confession as a law of church per priests "or else". You need to have your child baptized "or else". You need to keep holy the Sabbath day and if you have a job that makes you work Sundays, you need to leave your job. What Tobias was saying is his view is freedom from that. You don't have to be guilty for doing something you want to do that is perfectly legal. Under the Church you can be guilty for wanting to do something perfectly legal. Some of the bible states you should be put to death for things that are perfectly legal.
He also led out with a good point what tragedies have occurred in history due to Satanic beliefs in comparison to Salem Witch Trials, Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the enduring war of Catholics versus Protestants? What moment in recorded history has had near such impacts associated to Satanic belief/religion compared to Christianity? It was a good point. Think also how many people that call themselves Christians would stop in their tracks if they ran through the Book of Leviticus?
Who determines what “perfectly legal”? And on what basis. All laws are simply moral judgements reinforced by states. In Germany it was “perfectly legal” to kill jews. In America it was perfectly legal to kidnap folks and sell them. So the fact that an action is “perfectly legal” doesn’t make criticism of it false
That's why I take the Alice Cooper qoute " The last thing you want is religion, what you want is a relationship with Christ " I always believed religion was made by man and centered it around Christ to get different denominations to fight, to get atheists to fight with Christians. I am a believer and I am cool with spirituality and faith but once man tries to take control of it all, that's where I have a problem.
Exactly, I live my faith as a Christian personally. I read the Bible at my house, I go to a non denominational church during the Holidays with my family most of us grew up catholic but we didn't like the organized side of a lot of churches. Our personal relationship with Christ felt it should be between us and God. I find a lot of Christians doing that these days.
@@VinAndSori The laws do. Not the church. Because then we would not be able to go down and shop on the sabbath. Which also are different days depending on WHAT religion. Because that would be illegal if the bible was law. Your arguing that its the religion that decides what is legal, which it isn't and THAT is what Tobias means. The Church isn't the one deciding whats legal and it shouldn't be, which your arguments here clearly shows.
"We Should Release Our Videos On Sundays." YES !!!!!
10:21 His (Vin) comment shows his inability to see the reality. That someone could claim that in this day and age. I’m baffled.
Very interesting viewpoints
religion HAS NEVER PROTECTED A CHILD
Depending on what "satanic or devil worship" organization, if such a thing, there is rules, one is to not hurt another, so it's not just willy nilly do what you want, it's just opposed to what Christianity, Roman catholic mostly, pushes
I'm trans. American evangelicalism has never seen fit to welcome me.
What’s with the distortion and words muting?
interesting...
Good one bro. You should talk it out with Tobias
More wars have been fought in the name of religion than any other reason.
I like your guys reactions, very interesting view points coming from your side. Ghost dropped a new song by the way, y’all should check it out 👌🏽
I get the point you guys are making about Tobias imposing himself/his personality onto other people. If you'd ask me and if the world were black and white he definitely is one of the good guys if you could label people "good" or "evil" without any nuances to begin with. I mean, if you could measure the amount of very positive things he gave us (by us I mean the community/fans that support him) you'd see it this way and I think you do because you like his music. I think the point is that one should not need a church or religion in order to be a good person or to live a good life and do the things you like while helping others which he clearly does. To me he seems to be focusing too much on the negative aspects of religion and seems to think the whole thing is about control and oppression though which is clearly not the case. Religion can also bring a lot of positive things to one's life. I think you guys are a perfect example of this. I also think people need something to believe in. Tobias believes in his pop cultural Devil. You guys believe in God. No offense but it's essentially the same thing (by this I mean the feeling of believing in an "entity" if you will which is a basic human need). Where it all goes downhill is when people think religion entitles them to behave unacceptably, which is the main source for the lyrical content he produces, artwork and lore..
You guys shouldn't take his views on the church too seriously though because his views are clearly mostly based on historical events. If you'd look at his personal history you'd see he had some pretty traumatic experiences with strict Christians as a kid which is what started his rebellion against Christianity but never in an agressive or abusive way, only by expressing himself through his art, which he does extremely well. While he like to shock people the guy is truly a musical mastermind. To him, his "pop cultural devil" represents freedom but not lawlessness or anarchy and I think for him it's mainly about his art/the music itself so he tends to oversell the whole popcultural devil/oppression by Christianity minset a little.
Long story short: You shouldn't read that much into the whole "Satanic mindset" mumbo jumbo and just enjoy his music. In the end that's what Satan wants ;-) (I'm just kidding of course)
Regards, an agnostic theist / utilitarian who believes in Ghost ;-)
The church in Texas didn't want Tobias and the band to come and play now in January 2022.
I love how Christian panelist reacting to stuff. Go out of their way to not even address the questions brought up by Tobias 😂
Click bait? Thought they were gonna watch the video, not just 4 minutes of Tobias and then 35 minutes bla bla defence of christianity.
In the words of Alice Cooper " the last thing you want is religion in your life what you want is a relationship with Christ " for me I find faith is a personal thing, I know Jesus was always out and about with people than he was in the church and he usually criticized the leaders of the church.
Also check Thomas Sowell constrained/unconstrained vision. It's like living in a world full of 2 year olds just doing whatever makes you feel good.
Why don't you react to GRIP Inc. - monster among us
You are so sure of your thoughts about these other philosophies yet you know NOTHING about them. Unreal.
The morale of it is simple treat people the way you want to be treated religious or not and you're over thinking it we still ha e more or less a guide book to follow like don't harm others especially women or children
Who defines harm? Can we abort children when they’re in the womb?
I don't wanna take up alot of time comment space on UA-cam and I do apologize if upset anyway but I would still like to discuss this topic and others with you through email or something..
@@sparks2933 sure
@@VinAndSori Well, who defines harm. Not you or your argument. RELIGION SHOULD NOT CONTROL OUR LIVES AND YOU ARE THE PROOF.
@@VinAndSoriyes lol
God unleash us all to good or/and evil giving freedom to do what we want with all the consequenses of the aftermath.-
Vin and Sori. You really need to set aside a long period of time to re-evaluate your beliefs. They are so…so…not as impressive as you seem to think they are.
Lol we spend hours talking about our beliefs daily. You’re too emotional to interface with the subject in any meaningful way
@@VinAndSori You need to find more hours to spend thinking about this, from other sources than just those who confirm your already held view points.
@@modeltraintherapy5376 lol you have no idea what my viewpoints are bro. You have assumptions.
@@VinAndSori you are a christian. Why wouldnt i be able to reasonably assume where you would stand on a great number of issues? Its not like you guys are that mysterious. Im more conservative than liberal myself, and we would probably agree on LOTS things. Not this, though. lol
@@VinAndSori Its quite clear from this video what your viewpoints are. You are christians and you clearly thinks that anyone non christian goes around murdering and that the bible is the source for the law, yet you say in other comments that the law does not tell whats right or wrong, the bible does.
So it is clear who you are: Christians who follow the bible and thinks EVERYONE must, otherwise they are bad and you want to force this on people. Which is what Tobias was AGAINST but you twisted it into him saying you should have no LAWS.
Ghost is life.
PLEASE REACT TO HUNTERS MOON AND LITTLE SUNSHINE BY GHOST!! 😁😈🤘🔥
Pre pubescent boys? You must be talking about the church
I grew up in a shinto religious household, it's mostly tradition with none of the magic, a way of remembering my parents homeland and continuing little life lessons our ancestors thought important, I could take it or leave it, Nobody I know who went through a religious school is still religious and we're not even 30 yet, some people maybe try go back to the church for a stronger sense of community when they have a kid but it's not the same to them and they stop going pretty quick.
I agree religions of all shapes have changed their ways of getting people in the door, things like Hillsong would have been pretty popular when I was a kid but more and more sus shit comes out about them every year.
The concern over 'if people didn't have religion they would do this' doesn't hold water for me, if someone is a kleptomaniac, pedophile, rapist or murderer, those things are all already illegal, the punishment is here and now for them, hopefully, if the only thing stopping that behavior is the idea of heaven so many religious leaders and the entire catholic church wouldnt be based around housing and protecting pedophilic rapists.
When I was younger, Christians told me the Dalai Lama was going to hell when he died , after finding out about his ties to the CIA and NED , it could be true. In 1997 the Chicago Tribune , 1998 the NY and LA times used declassified agency documents showing these ties.
If you are told you are a sinner by no fault of your own, that tends to make people feel like crap.
It's like being born with a disease and then being punished because of it.
Regardless, something that is true is what is important. What I believe doesn't matter. I want to know, not believe.
Wrong analogy. It’s like being born sick and not understanding why u can’t do the things u want to do. And then finally knowing what the problem is. We are born sinful so understanding we can NEVER on our own reach perfection is relieving. Then we also know we need to see a doctor…THE DOCTOR ✝️
@@VinAndSori Wow, this rationale is awful.
at 15 minutes in did Vin just say its ok to hurt people if the end result is some how "good"? Like what? For exampe beating people that dont behave?
Still not sure if he truly is a Satanist. He could be a straightforward atheist using Satanism as an aesthetic, though.
The Satanic Church aren't devil worshippers but Atheists who use "Satanic" imagery to express their freedom and opposition to the idea of God. They dont belive in a God, and they don't belive in a lot of religious things and Satan as the opposite of it.
@@unknowngaming1432 That's what I was saying.
Hes a freemason he isn't a atheist
@@shawnmichaelslazyeye5417 What's that?
Thats what Satanists are. Lol
I spoke with Veni Domain He said I could use it for Evangelism. It has proverbs and Revelation. No other song like it. Not for me to want but to Share.
The Old Testament has rules for keeping people as property, sell them or give them to your children. I've never seen a passage in either OT or NT where owning another person as property is condemned. Slavery was defended by Christians and condemned equally, like in South Africa, so our modern view on slavery is more down to humanism than an overarching condemnation by the world religions and their leaders. Love your videos and respect your views and your faith even though, as most Swedes, I'm not subscribing to religion or any notion of the supernatural.
It’s not the opposite though he’s right all Christians do is tell you how damned you are. They preach about how unworthy we are and sinful (for the most ridiculous sins ever that no one has business judging us on).
Here’s the deal for me.
I have nothing against personal faith. It helps people come to terms with issues that effect us all and I’ll never be unhappy with anyone having their own beliefs. However, organised religion have caused more deaths over the last 1000 years than any other ideology ever invented. I don’t care whether it’s catholic, Protestantism, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism or Hinduism. I keep all of them at arm’s length.
When I was 14 I was baptised and confirmed in the Church of England as I felt that it wasn’t as restrictive as Catholicism and gave people more liberties than the ‘old faith’. Not long after our vicar left and a replacement took over and when it came to the time to pass out the collection plate, he said verbatim “I want to hear a wrinkle (of a bank note) and not a tinkle (of a coin) and that’s when I realised they were just as bad. I lost all belief in organised religion at that point.
I don’t subscribe to satanism either because that’s just another cheek if the same arse as far as I’m concerned as being part of the same belief system.
Since 1989, I just believe in being the best person you can be and making sure those around you are taken care of if they can’t look after themselves. You can uphold Christian values without being a Christian.
Yours sincerely,
An atheist. 👍🏻
Sad thing the soundquality in that first interview was crap. But Tobias is right! Religion is bad cause it makes good people do awefull things.
Neither bad Satan or his opposing crossdouche exist! Live in reality! Btw Rock ´n´ Roll is about provocation, so calm down!
when are you gonna watch hunters moon. . . .
Not anytime soon I think! 😉
Instead of talking Chesterton... I would have preferred, roles equal Freedom through the football analogy
I think he said there are good people and bad in religion and out
Some people are saying: you are not allowed to listen to Ghost as a Christian, bc of Satan but why not. You are not betraying yout god with this
11:00 Sweden is protestant.
2 great songs are out that you haven't reviewed.........
Evangelism only makes you feel good about yourself if you fit into the frame of evangelism already, or is being learned/raised into their beliefs. Anyone outside will be seen as faulty, wrong and a sinner and those are not positive things to motivate people feeling good about themselves. This is the core issue with "fanaticals" that they wont accept other peoples beliefs and lifes and are fundamentaly seen as sinners, which then means that they are going to burn eternaly for their crimes. This is the big clash, cause they dont believe or feel they are doing something wrong but the Church is trying to make them feel bad about themselves for their choices in life. Just cause I live a way without religion doesnt mean im evil, my beliefs are not affecting anyone in a negative way at all, so who are Church to tell me im wrong when they are literaly hurting and judging people FUNDAMENTALY. Its insanity to me.
Please react to GHOST - CALL ME LITTLE SUNSHINE
if you want to know whe god thinks then listen to aurelio voltaire "god thinks"
If you watch any Evangelist, they still yell at the audience, shoving it down your throat, so idk what they're trying to prove?
Heres especial shica bella de Espíritu me gusta como espresas sus cosas Dios bendiga su familia siempre gracias por espresar sus sentimientos hatrabes de su canal siempre para ustedes mis respeto hacia ustedes hi su bella familia love is respect Gad is Love peace Amen 🙏 hacia nuestros bella humanidad siempre hi cuando le regalemos una bella sonrisa 😀 hacia haquel que lo necesitamos Amén Dios bendiga siempre nuestros bellos hogares hijos familia del mundo entero bendiciones familia Amén
As a Christian myself I love Ghost, they were not what I expected, I was expecting a VENOM vibe, that band scared me, GHOST has like a dark Trans Siberian Orchestra vibe.
Finally a Christian who likes Ghost as much as I do ❤
I just finished watching the video @VinAndSori very interesting opinion, however I think you're taking it out of context. When he's referring to feeling like shit, He's not talking about somebody doing wrong to them. I believe he's simply talking about the negative emotions that they're having in that environment. I understand you're saying that evangelicals like to push a positive feeling, which is a half truth. What they like to do is say that you're missing something and they can bring that to you in the name of God, obviously for a price $. Also when putting things in the context of good and evil, and what theists have done historically, just remember all the people that have murdered in the name of God. I think if you would look, I think you'll overwhelmingly see a very different outlook on theists historically. You may not agree with all those historical theists views, but ultimately they were theists.
IDK if he is right, but he is not wrong.
Funny when I see Christians even dance anywhere close to bringing up slavery issue themselves. 😂
As a swede. You’re welcome to being ”woke”. 😉
how come you haven't did call me little sunshine