I’m glad the Armenian story didn’t end here, in 1199 the Georgians liberated Armenia and recaptured Ani, and defeated the eldiguzids, and welcomed the Armenians back to their land. Amazing video!
Turk from Adana here. Thank you very much for this comprehensive work shedding light on the Armenian side of the Cilician history. It is fascinating that the Armenians stood up even against the Byzantines and captured the shore line at their expense. Apparently the land of Cilicia often had an exceptional level of autonomy compared to the rest of Anatolia even when the region was ruled by great empires. Similarly, the Turkish beylik of Ramazanoglu ruled Cilicia for two and a half centuries, and managed to preserve its autonomy until the early 17th century. It was the last Anatolian state to eventually join the Ottoman Empire.
It's crazy to me how these Armenian kings don't hold these meetings in their own court. "Yeah sure I'll meet you where my forces and I are completely surrounded and will likely be taken prisoner." I can understand leading from the front, but after what happened to Gagik II, how does Leo fall for the same trap, TWICE.
It happened before Gagik too. Arshak II of the Arascida went to a meeting with the Persian King, he was captured and his right hand man, Vasak Mamikonian was flayed alive.
I feel like throughout Armenian history there is always a blind spot for betrayal. They are smart, adaptable and financially successful, but naive to treachery. Not meant to be a shot at Armenians, just an observation.
The Armenians actually did that, with Bohemond III in 1194. They called him to meet with them but instead imprisoned him; he was eventually freed in 1195 after negotiations.
Since there was no royalties or governments in existence - also the Church would represent the ethnic identity as the protector - the Church was the official representative and protector . At least the Cilician church remained free when the Etchmiadzin was under Soviet rule . After the Genocide the Armenians were placed in the Middle East where there is historical continuity and the governments recognized the Armenian Church as the official representative of the community .
Amazing video! Sadly Turks in Adana are never taught about this part of the history of the region! It is as if it never happened even though Armenian castle dot the landscape
Its not correct.we Turks in Turkey know very well the history of the Roman, Armenian past in Anatolia and see it as part of own history of Turkey and are proud of it too. The Glorieus Armenian and Roman and Seljuck and Ottoman times are part Ower glorious history
@talfriedman1265 as Armenian I can add to the list Native Americans and and Black people , Irish, Greeks, Assyrians, Yezidis, Palestinians recent past as far as I leave I'm 35, but yeah I can agree we suffered a lot but we kinda dislike each other but in Armenian 3 nation names always fascinated me Հայ-Hay(Armenian) Հույն-Huyn (Greek) Հրեա-Hrea (Jew) There is connection in-between our names all of them starts with letter H only them is not a just coincidence
Hey, I’m a bit late here, but really liked the video man! It seems to be doing well too and, like you said, Armenian history is just so fascinating - there’s plenty of different chapters to explore. I don’t know why, but after Nagorno-Karabakh, I find myself wanting to know more the Defense of Van in 1915 and Nakhchivan.
This is the only deep dive into this region in this time period I have ever seen and it's an excellent one at that. Kudos my friend for a job well done!
They're amazing people. Just the fact that they still exist (and exist as an independent nation and state) after all they went through, makes me think they're one of the toughest people on earth.
Amazing video. It filled a lot of the gaps I had for this period. Do you recommend any books you've found in your studies so I can read more about this topic?
Կիլիկիա Երբոր բացվին դռներն հուսո, Եվ մեր երկրեն փախ տա ձմեռ, Չքնաղ երկիրն մեր Արմենիո, - Երբ փայլե յուր քաղցրիկ օրեր. Երբոր ծիծառն իր բույն դառնա, Երբոր ծառերն հագնին տերև` Ցանկամ տեսնել զիմ Կիլիկիա, Աշխարհ, որ ինձ ետուր արև: Տեսի դաշտերըն Սուրիո, Լյառն Լիբանան և յուր մայրեր. Տեսի զերկիրըն Իտալիո, Վենետիկ և յուր գոնդոլներ. Կղզի, նման չիք մեր Կիմպրիա Եվ ո’չ մեկ վայրն է արդարև Գեղեցիկ քան զիմ Կիլիկիա, Աշխարհ` որ ինձ ետուր արև: Հասակ մը կա մեր կենաց մեջ, ՈՒր ամենայն իղձ կավարտի. Հասակ մը, ուր հոգին ի տենչ` Հիշատակաց յուր կարոտի. Հորժամ քնարս իմ ցրտանա, Սիրույն տալով վերջին բարև` Երթամ ննջել հիմ Կիլիկիա, Աշխարհ` որ ինձ ետուր արև: ua-cam.com/video/4QmA_SWK-40/v-deo.html
Great video and one of the best if not the best Ive seen on Cilician Armenia, every time I watch a video of Stoic historian I always learn a great deal on a subject I thought I knew almost everything about, great story teller, he really breaks down what was going on at the time in great detail. Stoic Historian is the Documentarian of Documentarians, would have been a King of Kings in those days : ) շատ Մերսի
After Rubenids came Herumids and Armenian Cilicia survives until 1380 or something like that. Do you have a story about that. Hetumids had alliance with Mongols
@Stoic Historian At Manzikert, it was Romanos Diogenes who was the emperor. And he was betrayed by the Doukas family, but that was because he'd married the Empress who was a Doukas widow and was a political rival to the Doukas family.
I get that you ended the story at a point to continue it later, but you kind of give the wrong impression. The Byzantine occupation was brief, Thoros II, Leo’s third son was able to reconquer Cilicia and hold it seven years later.
Hoping to get the continuation of the story of Cilician Armenia! and of course an important point is that the Byzantine Empire was Eastern Orthodox (dyophysite, Chalcedonian), while Armenian Apostolic Church (miaphysite/anti-Chalcedonian) is part of Oriental Orthodox churches and they have little to do each other. In fact, Byzantines considered Armenian Church as heretical. It's just that when people say Orthodox in everyday situations they automatically mean Eastern Orthodox but in reality there is no Christian denomination called Orthodox.
We fast forward to 🇹🇷 Talaat Niggol Pashayan 🇹🇷 Armenia- 1st CIA Country.. We used to be Christians. Talaat Mustafa Pashayan "Give the Sultan what they want, or they won't like us anymore." We went from General Antranik Ozanian 🇦🇲✝️🇦🇲 to Secretary Anthony Blinking 🇪🇺🤡🇺🇲 in one generation. Armenia, the next Ukraine led by Talaat Pashayan.
I feel like it was either them or the Georgians, but they knew about them, so I think prester John was simply a made up story, unless you count Ethiopia
There were Christian communities in India since the 5th century. It's not impossible that some carved out a small polity that the Christians found out about through Indian ocean trade (and added all of the superficial details as a result)
@@StoicHistorian The confusion began when English speakers read Latin words in English. To be correct you have to create your own alphabet that’s why there are many misunderstandings in map reading or in names. Kilikia is well know region with it’s history. And yes it is pronounced the same way in Armenian, Greek, Latin and all other languages normal languages.
Both pronunciations have merit. I personally lean more toward “Kee-lee-kee-ah” than “Se-lees-see-ah”, but we must also admit that the original Latin/Greek pronunciations do not dictate English pronunciation, or else we’d call the phonetically similar Sicily “See-kee-lee” instead of “Sis-sil-lee”.
@@duy-anhdang705 well if you have so many Italians in the USA that they can correct you well yes you will learn. But if there are not many people from that region you start thinking that it was written in your language not in Latin or other one. For example how you pronounce Regina?
@@ZenionPlay but that’s the thing, the Greeks who originally established colonies there called it Sikelia, but now Italians pronounce it like Si-chi-lya, it’s Si-si-ly in English because we learned that from the French, so who’s right? Who’s wrong?
I followed in the footsteps of those Frankish Crusaders by marrying an Armenian beauty! Being blessed by her past, roots, Christian heritage and beauty (true that) and my Germanic Frisian Viking heritage! Mer Hayarin Kenats!
Pl dont as long the turks live there you do nothing else than Support muslim opression when you go there. The money that you spent will be better in christian hands.
You know what's super-annoying about this video? The narrator doesn't know the difference between the simple past tense and the past conditional. He's always saying that "X would be" instead of "X was". This is established history, and we know what happened - there's no need for the conditional here. I fucking hate that shit.
nothing is by accident. also armeninas lived as far west as cappadocia since before the assyrian networks that went to hatti. several armenian kingdoms, and their remnants existed west of the greater armenia. bunch of offshoots that made the main body weak, in the east there were 4 to 5 kingdoms liek arran syunik karabakh nachichivan only came from necessity but was always loyal to ani. Cappadocia edessa sophene Commagene. filled with armeninas, who all predate the persians and greeks western centric baby brain books pretend were always there ahahahahhaahhahahaha nice try though
I’m glad the Armenian story didn’t end here, in 1199 the Georgians liberated Armenia and recaptured Ani, and defeated the eldiguzids, and welcomed the Armenians back to their land. Amazing video!
Turk from Adana here. Thank you very much for this comprehensive work shedding light on the Armenian side of the Cilician history. It is fascinating that the Armenians stood up even against the Byzantines and captured the shore line at their expense.
Apparently the land of Cilicia often had an exceptional level of autonomy compared to the rest of Anatolia even when the region was ruled by great empires. Similarly, the Turkish beylik of Ramazanoglu ruled Cilicia for two and a half centuries, and managed to preserve its autonomy until the early 17th century. It was the last Anatolian state to eventually join the Ottoman Empire.
It's crazy to me how these Armenian kings don't hold these meetings in their own court. "Yeah sure I'll meet you where my forces and I are completely surrounded and will likely be taken prisoner." I can understand leading from the front, but after what happened to Gagik II, how does Leo fall for the same trap, TWICE.
I know right, trustworthy to fault I suppose😂
It happened before Gagik too. Arshak II of the Arascida went to a meeting with the Persian King, he was captured and his right hand man, Vasak Mamikonian was flayed alive.
I feel like throughout Armenian history there is always a blind spot for betrayal. They are smart, adaptable and financially successful, but naive to treachery. Not meant to be a shot at Armenians, just an observation.
The Armenians actually did that, with Bohemond III in 1194. They called him to meet with them but instead imprisoned him; he was eventually freed in 1195 after negotiations.
Thats just our nature. I even notice it in my dad and myself. We trust way too easily and I am saying that as an Armenian
Worth mentioning that there is still an Armenian Cilician Church denomination that is the remnant of this kingdom
Yeah the Church is in Lebanon 🇱🇧 Aram is Catholicoses name that is onather story on its own
Since there was no royalties or governments in existence - also the Church would represent the ethnic identity as the protector - the Church was the official representative and protector . At least the Cilician church remained free when the Etchmiadzin was under Soviet rule . After the Genocide the Armenians were placed in the Middle East where there is historical continuity and the governments recognized the Armenian Church as the official representative of the community .
Amazing Armenia. Thanks for video.
Amazing video! Sadly Turks in Adana are never taught about this part of the history of the region! It is as if it never happened even though Armenian castle dot the landscape
Propably because the Turkish government wants you to think these lands were never Armenian
Its not correct.we Turks in Turkey know very well the history of the Roman, Armenian past in Anatolia and see it as part of own history of Turkey and are proud of it too. The Glorieus Armenian and Roman and Seljuck and Ottoman times are part Ower glorious history
I know about it lol, tf
Love Armenian history, subscribed
The quality of these videos is exceptional.
No one has suffered as badly as the Jews and Armenians.
Jews had it coming
the jews suffered more but it's sad to see two groups that suffered hate each other
I think you can add a whole lot more to the list
most of the ones you can add are realy small groups so it does't really matter@@BlazingFlame69
@talfriedman1265 as Armenian I can add to the list Native Americans and and Black people , Irish, Greeks, Assyrians, Yezidis, Palestinians recent past as far as I leave I'm 35, but yeah I can agree we suffered a lot but we kinda dislike each other but in Armenian 3 nation names always fascinated me
Հայ-Hay(Armenian)
Հույն-Huyn (Greek)
Հրեա-Hrea (Jew)
There is connection in-between our names all of them starts with letter H only them is not a just coincidence
Wonderful job as always! I hope you continue the Armenian Cilicia series.
Hey, I’m a bit late here, but really liked the video man! It seems to be doing well too and, like you said, Armenian history is just so fascinating - there’s plenty of different chapters to explore. I don’t know why, but after Nagorno-Karabakh, I find myself wanting to know more the Defense of Van in 1915 and Nakhchivan.
Your channel is very underated. Awesome stuff.
Top notch!
Thank you!
This is the only deep dive into this region in this time period I have ever seen and it's an excellent one at that.
Kudos my friend for a job well done!
Thanks! Really appreciate that!
I LOVE REAL voices!
Tough bunch these Armenians
They're amazing people. Just the fact that they still exist (and exist as an independent nation and state) after all they went through, makes me think they're one of the toughest people on earth.
@@lambert801 appreciate you, but we are being chipped away slowly by the hands of the turks and azeris.
@@lambert801мы не сильные. Вера Христу ведёт нас по этой земле
What@@user-gd3dx4pd8q
Fantastic video as always
I love it dude, keep the videos coming! I love these obscure history topics.
Thanks for the video. It was a good review with some new knowledge.
Great video so far! Looking forward to watching your backlog and seeing future content.
Great to hear!!
Based Video, Keep it going
5:53 It was Romanos Diogenes, not Doukas. The Doukids brought Romanos into power then betrayed and killed him after Manzikert.
Apologies, got my romanos’s mixed up there
Very useful information. I have Armenian Cilician DNA. ☺
I really enjoy videos on Armenian history! Thanks.
Amazing video. It filled a lot of the gaps I had for this period. Do you recommend any books you've found in your studies so I can read more about this topic?
“Armenian Cilicia” is the main one I’m using
Կիլիկիա
Երբոր բացվին դռներն հուսո,
Եվ մեր երկրեն փախ տա ձմեռ,
Չքնաղ երկիրն մեր Արմենիո, -
Երբ փայլե յուր քաղցրիկ օրեր.
Երբոր ծիծառն իր բույն դառնա,
Երբոր ծառերն հագնին տերև`
Ցանկամ տեսնել զիմ Կիլիկիա,
Աշխարհ, որ ինձ ետուր արև:
Տեսի դաշտերըն Սուրիո,
Լյառն Լիբանան և յուր մայրեր.
Տեսի զերկիրըն Իտալիո,
Վենետիկ և յուր գոնդոլներ.
Կղզի, նման չիք մեր Կիմպրիա
Եվ ո’չ մեկ վայրն է արդարև
Գեղեցիկ քան զիմ Կիլիկիա,
Աշխարհ` որ ինձ ետուր արև:
Հասակ մը կա մեր կենաց մեջ,
ՈՒր ամենայն իղձ կավարտի.
Հասակ մը, ուր հոգին ի տենչ`
Հիշատակաց յուր կարոտի.
Հորժամ քնարս իմ ցրտանա,
Սիրույն տալով վերջին բարև`
Երթամ ննջել հիմ Կիլիկիա,
Աշխարհ` որ ինձ ետուր արև:
ua-cam.com/video/4QmA_SWK-40/v-deo.html
Great video and one of the best if not the best Ive seen on Cilician Armenia, every time I watch a video of Stoic historian I always learn a great deal on a subject I thought I knew almost everything about, great story teller, he really breaks down what was going on at the time in great detail.
Stoic Historian is the Documentarian of Documentarians, would have been a King of Kings in those days : )
շատ Մերսի
Im Turkish Whit Armenian roots and 2de generation immigrant living in Belgium the country Were the currusaders came from.🎉😊
So does your Turkish part hate the Armenian part and vise versa lol?
So you’re Armenian but you call yourself Turkish
Bleeesss ya my akhperr 🙌🏻
Is there a continuation planned? Cilician Armenia survived Byzantine treachery to exist until 1375...
Might take a few months to a year tho
thanks
This is great. I would love to see the rest of the Lesser Armenian story.
And you will
Right place at the right time.
After Rubenids came Herumids and Armenian Cilicia survives until 1380 or something like that. Do you have a story about that. Hetumids had alliance with Mongols
Yeah gonna do the whole story about cilician armenia
@Stoic Historian At Manzikert, it was Romanos Diogenes who was the emperor. And he was betrayed by the Doukas family, but that was because he'd married the Empress who was a Doukas widow and was a political rival to the Doukas family.
I get that you ended the story at a point to continue it later, but you kind of give the wrong impression. The Byzantine occupation was brief, Thoros II, Leo’s third son was able to reconquer Cilicia and hold it seven years later.
Yeah but he was imprisoned by the Byzantines for most of those 7 years. I just felt like Thoros II deserved his own video
omg Thoros the Great
Guys, remember that time we accidentally a country?
Megusta
Doing business with those westerners was a pure joy 😉 they were like Armenians very similar mentality
They were part of the kingdom of Iberia (Ebro) in the 3rd century bc.
Մեր հայերին կենաց
The guy @ 2:30 has a Beetlejuice head.
Hoping to get the continuation of the story of Cilician Armenia! and of course an important point is that the Byzantine Empire was Eastern Orthodox (dyophysite, Chalcedonian), while Armenian Apostolic Church (miaphysite/anti-Chalcedonian) is part of Oriental Orthodox churches and they have little to do each other. In fact, Byzantines considered Armenian Church as heretical. It's just that when people say Orthodox in everyday situations they automatically mean Eastern Orthodox but in reality there is no Christian denomination called Orthodox.
🇦🇲✊️✌️
Anyone else here thanks to the new Age 2 DLC? ^^
It’s nice to have another perspective on this rather than the strictly Catholic interpretations.
😄👍
Now we fast-forward today where the world allowed the total erasure of Armenian culture in Azeri occupied lands.
We fast forward to 🇹🇷 Talaat Niggol Pashayan 🇹🇷 Armenia- 1st CIA Country.. We used to be Christians. Talaat Mustafa Pashayan "Give the Sultan what they want, or they won't like us anymore."
We went from General Antranik Ozanian 🇦🇲✝️🇦🇲 to Secretary Anthony Blinking 🇪🇺🤡🇺🇲 in one generation. Armenia, the next Ukraine led by Talaat Pashayan.
Were the Armenians the truth behind the Prester John stories
I feel like it was either them or the Georgians, but they knew about them, so I think prester John was simply a made up story, unless you count Ethiopia
There were Christian communities in India since the 5th century. It's not impossible that some carved out a small polity that the Christians found out about through Indian ocean trade (and added all of the superficial details as a result)
"accidental"a babota
Kilikia not Silicia
Turks punching the air rn
Its pronounce Kilikia not Silisia.
ive never heard of that, is that the armenian pronunciation?
@@StoicHistorian The confusion began when English speakers read Latin words in English. To be correct you have to create your own alphabet that’s why there are many misunderstandings in map reading or in names. Kilikia is well know region with it’s history. And yes it is pronounced the same way in Armenian, Greek, Latin and all other languages normal languages.
Both pronunciations have merit. I personally lean more toward “Kee-lee-kee-ah” than “Se-lees-see-ah”, but we must also admit that the original Latin/Greek pronunciations do not dictate English pronunciation, or else we’d call the phonetically similar Sicily “See-kee-lee” instead of “Sis-sil-lee”.
@@duy-anhdang705 well if you have so many Italians in the USA that they can correct you well yes you will learn. But if there are not many people from that region you start thinking that it was written in your language not in Latin or other one. For example how you pronounce Regina?
@@ZenionPlay but that’s the thing, the Greeks who originally established colonies there called it Sikelia, but now Italians pronounce it like Si-chi-lya, it’s Si-si-ly in English because we learned that from the French, so who’s right? Who’s wrong?
Guys literally started the holy crusades
I followed in the footsteps of those Frankish Crusaders by marrying an Armenian beauty!
Being blessed by her past, roots, Christian heritage and beauty (true that) and my Germanic Frisian Viking heritage!
Mer Hayarin Kenats!
It's a beautiful place amazing castles I would love to visit it as a Christian land.
Deus Vault
Pl dont as long the turks live there you do nothing else than Support muslim opression when you go there. The money that you spent will be better in christian hands.
Christian land? That is the heart gods church and heaven
@@SultanBrokenClock ruled by muslims.
Very weird christo-fascist comment makes me want to block this channel for liking it
I take it these Cilecian Armenians are the ones the Turks genocided in WW1?
These Armenians got expelled/massacred in the 1890s during the hamidian massacres, the ones that survived fled or were killed during the 1910s
Romanos Doukas? 😂
Великим Армения легендарнии Киликия
You know what's super-annoying about this video? The narrator doesn't know the difference between the simple past tense and the past conditional. He's always saying that "X would be" instead of "X was". This is established history, and we know what happened - there's no need for the conditional here. I fucking hate that shit.
nothing is by accident. also armeninas lived as far west as cappadocia since before the assyrian networks that went to hatti. several armenian kingdoms, and their remnants existed west of the greater armenia. bunch of offshoots that made the main body weak, in the east there were 4 to 5 kingdoms liek arran syunik karabakh nachichivan only came from necessity but was always loyal to ani. Cappadocia edessa sophene Commagene. filled with armeninas, who all predate the persians and greeks western centric baby brain books pretend were always there ahahahahhaahhahahaha nice try though