Playerbase burn out is inevitable in any game with meta progression. Any sort of numeric (non-skill based) advantage that you get from simply playing the game will naturally lead to older players becoming the wall that separates newcomers from enjoying the core gameplay. Decay of a Tarkov-style extraction shooter is embedded in its gamedesign
They're definitely not aimed at casual players. Even more "hardcore" players tend to have a hard time getting into them though, mainly due to the issues I described in the video.
Ngl when I first saw the Marauder's trailer I was quite excited by the aesthetics but once I found out it's an extraction shooter I lost all interest in it.
I wouldn't say it's creatively bankrupt. Hunt Showdown in particular is quite creative with its monster designs, setting, and lore, for example. At least it was until CryTek decided to cut the lore entries out of the game with the big 1896 update with a vague sense that they might bring them back at some point, anyway... There is, however, a large amount of "follow the leader" going on with gameplay mechanics, which is what I figure you're referring to.
how about a pve mode where u can earn gear/materials to buy/craft gear so you're not forced into pvp until you feel you're ready to compete and willing to risk your gear. this could also let you earn a bank of gear to fall back on so the punishment for losing isn't as severe.
@@zerg6001 I wish I could enjoy Tarkov but I think Hunt Showdown has the perfect balance where there really isn’t much inventory stuff. It’s so much faster to be ready to play and has a tight gameplay loop.
@@jamesfenimore174 Agreed, Hunt is as good as 'extraction shooters' get. It's the perfect sweet spot, largely as a result of the time period its set. Ironically, the fact it's set in the 1890s is probably a huge factor as to why it isn't more popular, which leads into another major issue; the limited ranks making MMR hell if you're even slightly good at FPS games you get thrown against 5k+ hour players... It needs more ranks but doesn't have the playerbase to do so, as it only has about 20k players at peak times.
You mention the "all or nothing" approach, and I think this works out well for streamers/UA-camrs and poorly for gamers. PUBG was where I first experienced this mindset, and it made the game much more fun to watch than to actually play. I just don't enjoy the "all or nothing" approach when I'm trying to learn a game. The fact that most of these games remain unfinished for years doesn't help drive players towards it. But even if they did, it'd probably mark a high point for the game followed by it dying fairly quickly - see Battlebit Remastered for a good example of this, game is practically dead after being one of the biggest launches ever. When these games are in development for so long, a 1.0 release seems to feel like they've finished, and as the devs try to take a break the player base gets bored with the lack of further updates, and they gradually leave. It's a problem with the early access model, or whatever you want to call it. After developing a single game for 5+ years, the devs want to move onto something else or take a break, whereas the gamers expect the traditional expansions and additional content, or find major issues with the game that need fixing. We were hoping the early access model would lead to quicker game development and more user feedback improving the games, instead most of these devs took it as a chance to get people to buy the game before it's anywhere near finished, then bail as soon as it gets a 1.0 release and leave the game to die. Not exactly what we were hoping for.
Yes. Most titles suffer from "churning" when they lack novelty or dev implication ( content updates/patches etc ). A bad game is bad when it treats the "customers" like fools ( no tutorials, guides, or reason to carry on with it ), the content is there only to fill a void. The "all or nothing" is a fatalist approach from the eSport enjoyers, to be frank ...
@@DaedalusRaistlin you mentioned it in your comment, but Battlebit Remastered is decidedly not an example of such an early access release fumble. Barring the limited duration playtest runs, Battlebit Remastered basically hit the ground running pretty much only relying on the 1.0 release. Its fumble seems to be more on post-release balancing causing it to lose its identity as a team based shooter by catering too much to the FPS sweats.
And? There are quite a few games out there that are more complex, with as small or even smaller dev teams, and they manage to keep to a regular update schedule and address problems as they arise instead of letting them fester for months or even years.
Extraction Shooters have all the cons of Battle Royals and none of the pros. The developer needs 'lightning in a bottle' to attract a lot of players and then quickly update the game without 'ruining it' or letting cheaters run wild. After the big dog breaks ground (PUBG, Fortnite etc) you can accurately guess what games will falter or just fail
Id argue tarkov has a different issue than marauders in terms of the gear, in marauders you cant kill someone that has better gear than you. In tarkov the “shooting through cracks in someones armour” you speak of is impossible to do purposefully, for example the neck hitbox is literally tiny, and you can’t purposefully shoot it on a moving target with any reliability. The real issue with tarkov imo is how you can basically die to “bad luck” since the new hitbox additions. Wear a zabralo with t6 plates and tagilla face shield just to get one tapped in the neck with m856a1 because it pens the level 3 neck armour. It just feels really annoying and anti fun. Nice video btw man
@@DWTerminator Tarkov is actually quite good, despite all its problems. Now with PVE.....avoids cheaters, wipes and fomo. It is one of the few that has real depth and you can play in a variety of ways. As an older slower fan of FPS, games like CoD are just trash in comparison. Knowledge is king in EFT, while it's a grind to learn it's unparalleled in its dopamine hits when you succeed ... Therein lies the attraction, and you can enjoy the depth and art in PVE if PVP gets too frustrating.
You make some very good points, especially about this negative feedback loop just spiraling downwards. And yet,. there are enough idiots who support all of this.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. mods tend to be finicky at best, mainly due to being built on a foundation practically held together by toothpicks and chewing gum, and funnily enough are even *more* unwelcoming to new players than most extraction games are.
With how inherently frustrating the gameplay of this genre can be, I only considered 2 games from it so far to be interesting looking enough to play them sometime in the future, Marauders and to a lesser extent Hunt:Showdown. The state of Marauders is pretty dissapointing, I remember concluding after the previous video that this could be really good after some updates. Oh well. The cheating issue is definetely a large part of my disinterest in high risk/reward MP games, after seeing stuff like the "Tarkov wiggle" video, I really don't have much of a desire to spend some of my limited free time looking into them at all.
If you still want to try out extraction games, you might want to keep an eye on Incursion: Red River. Don't have to worry about cheaters since it's entirely PvE, but it's way too early in development to outright recommend yet.
*puts on nerd glasses* heh your skill at marauders is sub par thus i must inform the public that your opinion of the game is null and void as its not coming from a person with a minimal amount of skill and time put into the game to give an informative opinion of the game. once you get a 3.0 kd with over 1k hours in the game then and only then will you be allowed into the community with your "opinions" 🤓🤓🤓 joking aside really well made video and you voice all my gripes and problems that i have with marauders. i love playing hunt showdown but there are times where i do miss using machine guns and faster firing weapons. as for marauders it always annoys me how the only solution i can get from people who actively play the game is "just play more bro" "gotta put in the time to get the skill bro" it really is an uphill battle if you are not super good at the game or dont know all the little hidden details that can give you an advantage. then again how good is a hidden detail that could give you an advantage if everyone else who actively plays the game knows every thing inside and out making what ever secret you knew not very helpful. one of the things i love about hunt is that you have multiple tools with multiple uses to give you an advantage with your gear choice. while in say marauders your only tools are. gun and grenade. and if you dont have gear then you are limited in gun and grenade. so any movement tech or map knowledge that you could try and exploit on other players is useless because everyone already knows everything about the game to use against you. they know that being aggressive works because the hit reg lags behind meaning some of the shots phase right through them. they know that turning shadows down to low gives you better visibility in the maps. they know of that one bugged spot in a map where they can vault out of the map and see through walls or have a safe hidey hole. more about the game not wanting new players or the game making you feel like you are unwelcome. in hunt you can use voice chat to make deals or impromptu teams with random players mid match to get out a win. i remember i made friends with an enemy team because i thanked them for killing an AI that was being super loud and we saw a team camping in a bush with snipers so we teamed up to go kill them and split the bounty. meanwhile marauders is such a small community that almost everyone knows each other and if you are a player who has been around for awhile in the community you could voip to a person in your match and odds are if they are someone you know you could team up mid match splitting the loot and killing the rest of the players in the match. a new player cant really do that or if they do they cant do it with the same level of trust. also how would you feel if your a new player and all of a sudden just hear mid match 2 people chatting it up like their old friends and then they start to talk about where you are located. im not sure how friendly people in marauders are to new or random people who voip but from what i have seen most of the time they will just auto ignore people who they know if they ask. man this is a long comment. with all my issues i have with marauders i do know one of the reasons why they aint doing too good right now is due to the drama with Team 17. in short the devs of marauders were owned by Team 17. devs gave all or most of the money they got from marauders to team 17. team 17 then lets go of marauders taking money that marauders earned and giving them the middle finger. this is the short version of it im sure there is a more detailed and in depth version of this story and if you think my telling of the story is wrong i urge you to look it up and correct me because this is how i was told what happened and i never questioned it because i didnt spend the time to look it up properly. one last thing. this game does not have ANY spectating function. even the devs of the game cant spectate players. anytime the devs run a community tournament they rely on the players to stream their games through discord to spectate the tournament. it is the jankiest thing i have ever seen and i honestly love it.
The best extraction shooter is a DLC for a trash looter shooter… The Division… Survival is literally the best of the genre without a lot of the garbage.
That's not saying a lot.. The Division was Hammered Ass at best. I ain't defending Extraction shooters.. But you're describing a sliding scale of pure crap.
After having ~1,500 hours in Tarkov, ~800 in hunt , and dabbling in things like Marauders and Dark I can 100% endorse only Hunt Showdown. All the other ones are full of pvp goblins who want you for your gear and will 100% rat you for it constantly while hunt on the other hand has such a good way of congregating players around the boss and bounties that you will always get an full frontal squad on squad engagement with about a 80% chance of a third party showing up mid battle. And while gear is certainly a big part of it you can not only use cheap weapons effectively but you can excel at them, you can pay upwards of 900 hunt dollars for a mosin variant with spitzer or you can pay 120 for a high velocity small ammo gun and tap heads all day. One option is better than the other but it isn't 8-9 times better and that is why hunt keeps people playing variety. To min-max load outs you are not encouraged to take the best weapons that are locked behind high prices but instead you are rewarded for choosing play styles and specializing into them. This has its own problems but I would rather complain about price changes and use/fight a variety or weapons with my friends than die 19 times in a row to the same 2 load-outs like what happens in every other extraction shoot I have played. Of course once you get to the extremely high mmr this falls apart and everyone runs meta but for 90% of the player base and more importantly new players they get to not be blasted by the same two guns that cost 1/3 of their total bank account and are allowed to use whatever they want/find how they enjoy playing the game. Also I hate tarkovs quests and they are the main reason I stopped playing, I don't care if it makes hunt more "casual" but I will take some weekly "Get X kills X way for a optional bonus" over whatever the hell tarkov is doing. Also I wish all scavs, both player and not a very bad no good day. Hunts method of making pve more of a distraction/detection issue is such a better way of doing it.
I wish Tarkov had reasons to work with other random players. The idea is so cool but the gameplay is opposite of the idea. It’s all about running around and PvPing, often with huge imbalances between players, it sucks tbh! I always imagined the idea is to survive, not kill, kill, kill. I think all the hardcore players that stay playing every wipe are mostly only there for PvP and they’ve catered towards that. Wish the whole game was kind of a scav vibe.
I think Helldivers is probably my favorite extraction shooter, technically. It has the aspect of survival and loss when you die. If you lose, you won’t get samples so you still get a rush when you clutch. Fantastic vibe too.
8:00 This is where I think PvE is better suited for an extraction shooter. It is insanely frustrating to die to someone in Tarkov where it would be a miracle for your kit to win against them. Instead, what if you run into someone with great gear and they are there to help you when you need it. I think too many games are all about winning against other people and not working together. No More Room in Hell 2 has an interesting premise, though there is no gameplay or proof it'd work. 8 players all start around the edge of a map, like Hunt or Tarkov, and move inwards completing objectives. Player activity would be noticeable, like reactivating generators or gunshots, but it is a Co-op game. I really hope it turns out well. Dream game type shit.
Atleast with Tarkov having starting guns isn't as much of deal breaker, because in that game the damage you do doesn't from the guns themselves but the type of ammo you use instead.
your argument seems to be based on an assumption that skill should be the most important thing, and having better gear is not competitive. I dont think you made a case as for why that should be though. There are many competitive games to choose from that give you full equality from the getgo.
Never said anything about "full equality." I said a skilled player should be able to overcome gear advantages instead of being completely at the mercy of people who simply have better stuff than them. You're also ignoring the fact that every PvP game is competitive. That is quite literally the point of PvP. Just because it's not an "esports title" doesn't magically mean it's exempt from the principles of competition.
@@DWTerminatorcould be argued that the increased difficulty of killing someone with better gear than yourself is what makes extraction shooter’s exciting though, its part of why people play extraction shooters
@@DWTerminatori agree that some games make the disparity too much between the gear of course, but i think for an extraction shooter to work there has to be some tangible difference between low level/cheap items to high level/expensive items otherwise the entire extraction gameplay loop wouldnt really work as well (for example dmz)
I wish Tarkov had reasons to work with other random players. The idea is so cool but the gameplay is opposite of the idea. It’s all about running around and PvPing, often with huge imbalances between players, it sucks tbh! I always imagined the idea is to survive, not kill, kill, kill. I think all the hardcore players that stay playing every wipe are mostly only there for PvP and they’ve catered towards that. Wish the whole game was kind of a scav vibe.
![NEW CODE & MAKIATTO BANNER NEXT!!! [Girls' Frontline 2: Exilium]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JocPZ8dzxMY/mqdefault.jpg)
Playerbase burn out is inevitable in any game with meta progression. Any sort of numeric (non-skill based) advantage that you get from simply playing the game will naturally lead to older players becoming the wall that separates newcomers from enjoying the core gameplay.
Decay of a Tarkov-style extraction shooter is embedded in its gamedesign
You can tell that God has a sense of humor because Tarkov exists and people play it.
Or the God is dead and we killed it
God is deeply disappointed at such humans.
Tarkov is, despite its problems, actually quite good.
@@English1inAZ I like tarkov, but skill issue yakno.
From a casual gamer perspective extraction shooters are really off putting
Nothing can appeal to everyone though tbf, anything that tries to is usually quite mundane like fall guys etc
They're definitely not aimed at casual players. Even more "hardcore" players tend to have a hard time getting into them though, mainly due to the issues I described in the video.
Extraction games have a serious issue baked into the very concept. : *The vast majority of them Suck Out Loud.*
That's not so much an issue baked into the concept as it is poor execution.
Ngl when I first saw the Marauder's trailer I was quite excited by the aesthetics but once I found out it's an extraction shooter I lost all interest in it.
2 problems with Extraction shooters:
1. They're grindy as f*ck!
2. Most, if not all of them don't have separate matches for new players to join!
The genre itself is creatively bankrupt, similar to battle royales. They appeal to a certain type of gamer, and you know the type I'm talking about.
I wouldn't say it's creatively bankrupt. Hunt Showdown in particular is quite creative with its monster designs, setting, and lore, for example. At least it was until CryTek decided to cut the lore entries out of the game with the big 1896 update with a vague sense that they might bring them back at some point, anyway...
There is, however, a large amount of "follow the leader" going on with gameplay mechanics, which is what I figure you're referring to.
@@DWTerminator Gameplay, which is what matters, is what I'm referring to. The concept of the genre is far too limiting in what it can do.
Trend chasing , remember BR
I'd rather not remember battle royales.
Some games chase trends from my observation.
how about a pve mode where u can earn gear/materials to buy/craft gear so you're not forced into pvp until you feel you're ready to compete and willing to risk your gear. this could also let you earn a bank of gear to fall back on so the punishment for losing isn't as severe.
Fully agree. More Extraction shooters should go the Incursion Red River and Greyzone Warfare route and have PvE modes
I don’t like extraction shooters. You have to waste your life on the game in order to have any fun.
You could argue that with just about any modern release.
@@zerg6001 I wish I could enjoy Tarkov but I think Hunt Showdown has the perfect balance where there really isn’t much inventory stuff. It’s so much faster to be ready to play and has a tight gameplay loop.
All games are this
@@jamesfenimore174 Agreed, Hunt is as good as 'extraction shooters' get. It's the perfect sweet spot, largely as a result of the time period its set.
Ironically, the fact it's set in the 1890s is probably a huge factor as to why it isn't more popular, which leads into another major issue; the limited ranks making MMR hell if you're even slightly good at FPS games you get thrown against 5k+ hour players... It needs more ranks but doesn't have the playerbase to do so, as it only has about 20k players at peak times.
You mention the "all or nothing" approach, and I think this works out well for streamers/UA-camrs and poorly for gamers. PUBG was where I first experienced this mindset, and it made the game much more fun to watch than to actually play. I just don't enjoy the "all or nothing" approach when I'm trying to learn a game. The fact that most of these games remain unfinished for years doesn't help drive players towards it. But even if they did, it'd probably mark a high point for the game followed by it dying fairly quickly - see Battlebit Remastered for a good example of this, game is practically dead after being one of the biggest launches ever. When these games are in development for so long, a 1.0 release seems to feel like they've finished, and as the devs try to take a break the player base gets bored with the lack of further updates, and they gradually leave. It's a problem with the early access model, or whatever you want to call it. After developing a single game for 5+ years, the devs want to move onto something else or take a break, whereas the gamers expect the traditional expansions and additional content, or find major issues with the game that need fixing. We were hoping the early access model would lead to quicker game development and more user feedback improving the games, instead most of these devs took it as a chance to get people to buy the game before it's anywhere near finished, then bail as soon as it gets a 1.0 release and leave the game to die. Not exactly what we were hoping for.
Yes. Most titles suffer from "churning" when they lack novelty or dev implication ( content updates/patches etc ). A bad game is bad when it treats the "customers" like fools ( no tutorials, guides, or reason to carry on with it ), the content is there only to fill a void.
The "all or nothing" is a fatalist approach from the eSport enjoyers, to be frank ...
@@DaedalusRaistlin you mentioned it in your comment, but Battlebit Remastered is decidedly not an example of such an early access release fumble. Barring the limited duration playtest runs, Battlebit Remastered basically hit the ground running pretty much only relying on the 1.0 release.
Its fumble seems to be more on post-release balancing causing it to lose its identity as a team based shooter by catering too much to the FPS sweats.
They won't extract any money from my wallet.
My brother in Christ, the Marauders development team consists of FOUR PEOPLE
And? There are quite a few games out there that are more complex, with as small or even smaller dev teams, and they manage to keep to a regular update schedule and address problems as they arise instead of letting them fester for months or even years.
I personally dig Raider mode on maruaders
Extraction Shooters have all the cons of Battle Royals and none of the pros. The developer needs 'lightning in a bottle' to attract a lot of players and then quickly update the game without 'ruining it' or letting cheaters run wild. After the big dog breaks ground (PUBG, Fortnite etc) you can accurately guess what games will falter or just fail
A lot of gaming is just a time and money sink anymore.
Excellent Video!
Id argue tarkov has a different issue than marauders in terms of the gear, in marauders you cant kill someone that has better gear than you. In tarkov the “shooting through cracks in someones armour” you speak of is impossible to do purposefully, for example the neck hitbox is literally tiny, and you can’t purposefully shoot it on a moving target with any reliability. The real issue with tarkov imo is how you can basically die to “bad luck” since the new hitbox additions. Wear a zabralo with t6 plates and tagilla face shield just to get one tapped in the neck with m856a1 because it pens the level 3 neck armour. It just feels really annoying and anti fun. Nice video btw man
Hello DWTerminator, did you play Escape from Tarkov before? I read in the review and requests list that Escape from Tarkov is labelled "Need To Get"?
Not yet. I've just been following it for quite a while.
@@DWTerminator Understood. I've been following it for quite a while too.
@@DWTerminator Tarkov is actually quite good, despite all its problems. Now with PVE.....avoids cheaters, wipes and fomo. It is one of the few that has real depth and you can play in a variety of ways. As an older slower fan of FPS, games like CoD are just trash in comparison. Knowledge is king in EFT, while it's a grind to learn it's unparalleled in its dopamine hits when you succeed ... Therein lies the attraction, and you can enjoy the depth and art in PVE if PVP gets too frustrating.
You make some very good points, especially about this negative feedback loop just spiraling downwards.
And yet,. there are enough idiots who support all of this.
If you have the urge to play an extraction shooter, just play a Stalker mod.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. mods tend to be finicky at best, mainly due to being built on a foundation practically held together by toothpicks and chewing gum, and funnily enough are even *more* unwelcoming to new players than most extraction games are.
@@DWTerminator Fair. Still going to stand by my point though. But yeah the entire subgenre of extraction shooters needs work.
With how inherently frustrating the gameplay of this genre can be, I only considered 2 games from it so far to be interesting looking enough to play them sometime in the future, Marauders and to a lesser extent Hunt:Showdown. The state of Marauders is pretty dissapointing, I remember concluding after the previous video that this could be really good after some updates. Oh well.
The cheating issue is definetely a large part of my disinterest in high risk/reward MP games, after seeing stuff like the "Tarkov wiggle" video, I really don't have much of a desire to spend some of my limited free time looking into them at all.
pve is better than pvp trash
If you still want to try out extraction games, you might want to keep an eye on Incursion: Red River. Don't have to worry about cheaters since it's entirely PvE, but it's way too early in development to outright recommend yet.
*puts on nerd glasses* heh your skill at marauders is sub par thus i must inform the public that your opinion of the game is null and void as its not coming from a person with a minimal amount of skill and time put into the game to give an informative opinion of the game. once you get a 3.0 kd with over 1k hours in the game then and only then will you be allowed into the community with your "opinions" 🤓🤓🤓
joking aside really well made video and you voice all my gripes and problems that i have with marauders. i love playing hunt showdown but there are times where i do miss using machine guns and faster firing weapons. as for marauders it always annoys me how the only solution i can get from people who actively play the game is "just play more bro" "gotta put in the time to get the skill bro" it really is an uphill battle if you are not super good at the game or dont know all the little hidden details that can give you an advantage. then again how good is a hidden detail that could give you an advantage if everyone else who actively plays the game knows every thing inside and out making what ever secret you knew not very helpful. one of the things i love about hunt is that you have multiple tools with multiple uses to give you an advantage with your gear choice. while in say marauders your only tools are. gun and grenade. and if you dont have gear then you are limited in gun and grenade. so any movement tech or map knowledge that you could try and exploit on other players is useless because everyone already knows everything about the game to use against you. they know that being aggressive works because the hit reg lags behind meaning some of the shots phase right through them. they know that turning shadows down to low gives you better visibility in the maps. they know of that one bugged spot in a map where they can vault out of the map and see through walls or have a safe hidey hole.
more about the game not wanting new players or the game making you feel like you are unwelcome. in hunt you can use voice chat to make deals or impromptu teams with random players mid match to get out a win. i remember i made friends with an enemy team because i thanked them for killing an AI that was being super loud and we saw a team camping in a bush with snipers so we teamed up to go kill them and split the bounty. meanwhile marauders is such a small community that almost everyone knows each other and if you are a player who has been around for awhile in the community you could voip to a person in your match and odds are if they are someone you know you could team up mid match splitting the loot and killing the rest of the players in the match. a new player cant really do that or if they do they cant do it with the same level of trust. also how would you feel if your a new player and all of a sudden just hear mid match 2 people chatting it up like their old friends and then they start to talk about where you are located. im not sure how friendly people in marauders are to new or random people who voip but from what i have seen most of the time they will just auto ignore people who they know if they ask.
man this is a long comment. with all my issues i have with marauders i do know one of the reasons why they aint doing too good right now is due to the drama with Team 17. in short the devs of marauders were owned by Team 17. devs gave all or most of the money they got from marauders to team 17. team 17 then lets go of marauders taking money that marauders earned and giving them the middle finger. this is the short version of it im sure there is a more detailed and in depth version of this story and if you think my telling of the story is wrong i urge you to look it up and correct me because this is how i was told what happened and i never questioned it because i didnt spend the time to look it up properly.
one last thing. this game does not have ANY spectating function. even the devs of the game cant spectate players. anytime the devs run a community tournament they rely on the players to stream their games through discord to spectate the tournament. it is the jankiest thing i have ever seen and i honestly love it.
The best extraction shooter is a DLC for a trash looter shooter… The Division…
Survival is literally the best of the genre without a lot of the garbage.
That's not saying a lot.. The Division was Hammered Ass at best. I ain't defending Extraction shooters.. But you're describing a sliding scale of pure crap.
That's why i'm only playing Hunt:Showdown
I know people that play that game too.
After having ~1,500 hours in Tarkov, ~800 in hunt , and dabbling in things like Marauders and Dark I can 100% endorse only Hunt Showdown. All the other ones are full of pvp goblins who want you for your gear and will 100% rat you for it constantly while hunt on the other hand has such a good way of congregating players around the boss and bounties that you will always get an full frontal squad on squad engagement with about a 80% chance of a third party showing up mid battle. And while gear is certainly a big part of it you can not only use cheap weapons effectively but you can excel at them, you can pay upwards of 900 hunt dollars for a mosin variant with spitzer or you can pay 120 for a high velocity small ammo gun and tap heads all day. One option is better than the other but it isn't 8-9 times better and that is why hunt keeps people playing variety. To min-max load outs you are not encouraged to take the best weapons that are locked behind high prices but instead you are rewarded for choosing play styles and specializing into them.
This has its own problems but I would rather complain about price changes and use/fight a variety or weapons with my friends than die 19 times in a row to the same 2 load-outs like what happens in every other extraction shoot I have played. Of course once you get to the extremely high mmr this falls apart and everyone runs meta but for 90% of the player base and more importantly new players they get to not be blasted by the same two guns that cost 1/3 of their total bank account and are allowed to use whatever they want/find how they enjoy playing the game.
Also I hate tarkovs quests and they are the main reason I stopped playing, I don't care if it makes hunt more "casual" but I will take some weekly "Get X kills X way for a optional bonus" over whatever the hell tarkov is doing. Also I wish all scavs, both player and not a very bad no good day. Hunts method of making pve more of a distraction/detection issue is such a better way of doing it.
I wish Tarkov had reasons to work with other random players. The idea is so cool but the gameplay is opposite of the idea. It’s all about running around and PvPing, often with huge imbalances between players, it sucks tbh!
I always imagined the idea is to survive, not kill, kill, kill. I think all the hardcore players that stay playing every wipe are mostly only there for PvP and they’ve catered towards that.
Wish the whole game was kind of a scav vibe.
I think Helldivers is probably my favorite extraction shooter, technically. It has the aspect of survival and loss when you die. If you lose, you won’t get samples so you still get a rush when you clutch. Fantastic vibe too.
8:00 This is where I think PvE is better suited for an extraction shooter. It is insanely frustrating to die to someone in Tarkov where it would be a miracle for your kit to win against them.
Instead, what if you run into someone with great gear and they are there to help you when you need it. I think too many games are all about winning against other people and not working together.
No More Room in Hell 2 has an interesting premise, though there is no gameplay or proof it'd work. 8 players all start around the edge of a map, like Hunt or Tarkov, and move inwards completing objectives. Player activity would be noticeable, like reactivating generators or gunshots, but it is a Co-op game. I really hope it turns out well. Dream game type shit.
Honestly, I’m so ready for the Tarkov Arena coop mode.
Atleast with Tarkov having starting guns isn't as much of deal breaker, because in that game the damage you do doesn't from the guns themselves but the type of ammo you use instead.
The BEST extraction shooter has to be Deep Rock Galactic and probably will be forever!
Deep Rock Galactic isn't really an extraction shooter.
your argument seems to be based on an assumption that skill should be the most important thing, and having better gear is not competitive. I dont think you made a case as for why that should be though. There are many competitive games to choose from that give you full equality from the getgo.
Never said anything about "full equality." I said a skilled player should be able to overcome gear advantages instead of being completely at the mercy of people who simply have better stuff than them.
You're also ignoring the fact that every PvP game is competitive. That is quite literally the point of PvP. Just because it's not an "esports title" doesn't magically mean it's exempt from the principles of competition.
@@DWTerminatorcould be argued that the increased difficulty of killing someone with better gear than yourself is what makes extraction shooter’s exciting though, its part of why people play extraction shooters
@@DWTerminatori agree that some games make the disparity too much between the gear of course, but i think for an extraction shooter to work there has to be some tangible difference between low level/cheap items to high level/expensive items otherwise the entire extraction gameplay loop wouldnt really work as well (for example dmz)
2nd
I wish Tarkov had reasons to work with other random players. The idea is so cool but the gameplay is opposite of the idea. It’s all about running around and PvPing, often with huge imbalances between players, it sucks tbh!
I always imagined the idea is to survive, not kill, kill, kill. I think all the hardcore players that stay playing every wipe are mostly only there for PvP and they’ve catered towards that.
Wish the whole game was kind of a scav vibe.