Heya, I appreciate the extra Thousand Sons shoutouts this vid! Just wanted to point out that Raptora caps out at a 4+ invulnerable save so has no effect on Cataphractii, still nice on the Tartaros though like you said.
Absolutely love this breakdown, My shout is dark angels cataphractii with power swords in pride of the legion to bully other line units with +1 to hit. Love the wide variety of options discussed as opposed to just "the best" one! I'm starting to think 1k sons might be interesting
I’ve not tried it for my NL yet but I think they get an indirect boost from the legion -Bulky so chances are they will get the +1 to wound from outnumbering -Can deepstrike if you include Sevatar -Taking them with a dedicated transport of a Spartan gets you around the 1 Heavy Support a lot limitation All theory at the moment
I run a 5 man command squad in my Ultras list quite often. It looks cool and you can use the logos on its charge turn to give them WS6. I run a command squad, a suzerain squad and a locutaros storm squad in bigger games. 3 x WS6 units coming at you.
Another really helpful video! Keep them coming. My additions would be: Nullificators with Disintigrators with Raven Guard and Decapitation Strike, making very unlikely with Gets Hot against the enemy Warlord. Word Bearers and Tartaros with Dark Brethren Rite of War giving them Movement 8, WS and Strength 5 makes them really nice. Making sure you charge them into another scary unit with Power Fists or Thunder Hammers.
Great vid- thank you. I use a cata command squad that's performed well in WB, particularly when you can get Iconoclast popping for the +1A to make up for the small unit size and any favour of the Dark Gods for the extra WS. They hang about / coward / wait for favour in a Lascannon Proteus Pillbox before honourably committing...
Depending on your meta I also like a Storm Eagle as a Terminator delivery system. It can hold 10 and a character and is cheaper than a bare boned Spartan (loaded out its around 255pts) and it's an assault vehicle. Of course if everyone and their brother is packing an augury scanner, your mileage may vary.
The indomitus are not bad as stock because they come with power fists, 5 of them I believe is 25 pts cheaper than 5 tartaros with power fists and 50 pts less than 5 cataphractii with fists
The issue with the regular Terminators is they just get eaten alive by Legion specific elites or massed Lascannon fire. For that reason I always run them as cheap as possible, 5-man squads with Power Axes. Power Axes because then, at least, when they do strike back they are likely to put damage onto the target with S5 AP2. An anoying unit that the opponenet has to commit some actual firepower to if they want to remove. Beyond that I don't really see much point in basic terminators when most of the Legion specific Terminators completely outclass them, even for the points cost.
@@W.H.138yep, World Eaters basically have to bank on Command Squads and legion termies for a 2+ tough squad. Fortunately our Rampagers can tear apart any legion specific terminators 😂
@@14DEADSOUL yea sucks that they just excel at killing chaff and being ablative wounds for angron. There's a very easy way to fix it, and with their costs I don't think it will make them too op. Keep the ws3 malus, but roll the +1 attack bonus from berserker into it, and give them toughness +1 straight up, instead of the current only helps against str 6 and below weapons.
The odd thing about Dark Angels is that their regular terminators might work best in non Deathwing setups. I took the 10 terminators from the starter box and split them up in a catathractii Stormwing unit (bolters + fists, one plasma blaster for fun and a chainfist on one of them) and a catathractii Dreadwing with claws... neither are my favorite units, but I need to test them just for fun down the way.
@@BearfootMiniatures Yeah. I build a command squad with swords... but honestly it was more for fun than seeing a point in having terminators with Deathwing other than the Inner Circle or the Deathwing Companions version. You can't even give the Calibanite sword to anyone except character models (so just sergeants - and I think this means no one on the command squad).
yer looking at generic termies, Dark Angels get no benefit for making them deathwing assuming we run thunder hammers/ power fists/ chain fists, so other options are dreadwing, for the -1 strength from incoming flame, plasma, volkite, phosphex and poison, this seems situational at best. I think Ironwing for reroll 1s to hit if going tank hunting, otherwise ravenwing for +1 to run?
@@timothybradshaw3896 Thanks for pointing to the Ironwing - I somehow always assumed its just for ranged weapons. This is really a solid thing with a unit that actually can hurt vehicles close up. Otherwise you can still use them with Stormwing if you just want to bully regular tactical units more efficiently. Its probably not be an intimmidating combo, but on the other hand it also might not be worth sending your opponents elites to deal with them either? By the way - keep in mind Ravenwing would only work with tartarus, not cataphractii.
What's your take on regular power weapons taking lances over axes, so that if they aren't removed before they're in combat you get a few hits in at higher initiative, even if at AP3? It might help with clearing out tarpits alongside the lightning claws by reducing the amount of incoming damage.
Hey, nice video! You forgot the most 'broken' thing though ;-) Ultramarine Praetor in Cataphracti can take 'Mantle of Ultramar' -> 4 wounds Battle Hardened (1) He can run with a squad of Invictarus Suzerian -> line by default, 3 attacks base, everyone can take TH and everyone is a character (you can spread wounds)!! and can take a proteus as dedicated That squad can be joined by a regular apothecary -> Feel no pain Warlord trait 'Burden of Kings' on the praetor -> a 4+ It will not die & fearless on the praetor when you allocate a wound to him, and the unit of the preator can react in every phase, without spending an alotment Enjoy the carnage... with a scoring unit ;-)
Man I’ve just blank spotted that from my memory entirely: I’m literally doing an ultras army for a new channel army (based on the opfor for our Melos events) and I’m trying so hard to leverage balance into suzerain (maybe a praetorian Breacher squad per suzie squad, but even they aren’t BAD
@@BearfootMiniatures One per army is fine IMO, ultramarines have subtle disadvantages, like no strong characters and no strong ROW. If your opponent plays a very weak list, you can reduce to 5.
Sadly a Praetor in Cataphracti can't take "Mantle of Ultramar" only Legion Praetors can as you have to replace your artificer armor to take it. It is still a beast of a unit even without that.
Heya, I appreciate the extra Thousand Sons shoutouts this vid! Just wanted to point out that Raptora caps out at a 4+ invulnerable save so has no effect on Cataphractii, still nice on the Tartaros though like you said.
Absolutely love this breakdown,
My shout is dark angels cataphractii with power swords in pride of the legion to bully other line units with +1 to hit.
Love the wide variety of options discussed as opposed to just "the best" one!
I'm starting to think 1k sons might be interesting
I’ve not tried it for my NL yet but I think they get an indirect boost from the legion
-Bulky so chances are they will get the +1 to wound from outnumbering
-Can deepstrike if you include Sevatar
-Taking them with a dedicated transport of a Spartan gets you around the 1 Heavy Support a lot limitation
All theory at the moment
I run a 5 man command squad in my Ultras list quite often. It looks cool and you can use the logos on its charge turn to give them WS6. I run a command squad, a suzerain squad and a locutaros storm squad in bigger games. 3 x WS6 units coming at you.
space wolf tartaros termis are advancing and charging. they make a mess and the look on you're opponents face is priceless.
Another really helpful video!
Keep them coming.
My additions would be:
Nullificators with Disintigrators with Raven Guard and Decapitation Strike, making very unlikely with Gets Hot against the enemy Warlord.
Word Bearers and Tartaros with Dark Brethren Rite of War giving them Movement 8, WS and Strength 5 makes them really nice. Making sure you charge them into another scary unit with Power Fists or Thunder Hammers.
Changing my mind on Indomitus!
Indomitus are overpowered
Great vid- thank you. I use a cata command squad that's performed well in WB, particularly when you can get Iconoclast popping for the +1A to make up for the small unit size and any favour of the Dark Gods for the extra WS. They hang about / coward / wait for favour in a Lascannon Proteus Pillbox before honourably committing...
I’ve just invested in a bunch of proteus, good to know the investment can be used in pleasing ways with the cata command!
Depending on your meta I also like a Storm Eagle as a Terminator delivery system. It can hold 10 and a character and is cheaper than a bare boned Spartan (loaded out its around 255pts) and it's an assault vehicle.
Of course if everyone and their brother is packing an augury scanner, your mileage may vary.
Thanks for another great video Max
More Horus Heresy! Love it!
Keep these coming chum! Really useful 👍
With how tight Word Bearer elite slots are I really like Indomitus. To what you said maybe I need more for my upcoming Space wolves project!
The indomitus are not bad as stock because they come with power fists, 5 of them I believe is 25 pts cheaper than 5 tartaros with power fists and 50 pts less than 5 cataphractii with fists
The issue with the regular Terminators is they just get eaten alive by Legion specific elites or massed Lascannon fire.
For that reason I always run them as cheap as possible, 5-man squads with Power Axes. Power Axes because then, at least, when they do strike back they are likely to put damage onto the target with S5 AP2. An anoying unit that the opponenet has to commit some actual firepower to if they want to remove.
Beyond that I don't really see much point in basic terminators when most of the Legion specific Terminators completely outclass them, even for the points cost.
Unless you get red buttchers 🙃
@@W.H.138yep, World Eaters basically have to bank on Command Squads and legion termies for a 2+ tough squad. Fortunately our Rampagers can tear apart any legion specific terminators 😂
@@14DEADSOUL yea sucks that they just excel at killing chaff and being ablative wounds for angron.
There's a very easy way to fix it, and with their costs I don't think it will make them too op. Keep the ws3 malus, but roll the +1 attack bonus from berserker into it, and give them toughness +1 straight up, instead of the current only helps against str 6 and below weapons.
The odd thing about Dark Angels is that their regular terminators might work best in non Deathwing setups. I took the 10 terminators from the starter box and split them up in a catathractii Stormwing unit (bolters + fists, one plasma blaster for fun and a chainfist on one of them) and a catathractii Dreadwing with claws... neither are my favorite units, but I need to test them just for fun down the way.
Do you mean as they just end up better having fists/hammers/claws? Ye I’d agree with that tbh
@@BearfootMiniatures Yeah. I build a command squad with swords... but honestly it was more for fun than seeing a point in having terminators with Deathwing other than the Inner Circle or the Deathwing Companions version. You can't even give the Calibanite sword to anyone except character models (so just sergeants - and I think this means no one on the command squad).
yer looking at generic termies, Dark Angels get no benefit for making them deathwing assuming we run thunder hammers/ power fists/ chain fists, so other options are dreadwing, for the -1 strength from incoming flame, plasma, volkite, phosphex and poison, this seems situational at best. I think Ironwing for reroll 1s to hit if going tank hunting, otherwise ravenwing for +1 to run?
@@timothybradshaw3896 Thanks for pointing to the Ironwing - I somehow always assumed its just for ranged weapons. This is really a solid thing with a unit that actually can hurt vehicles close up.
Otherwise you can still use them with Stormwing if you just want to bully regular tactical units more efficiently. Its probably not be an intimmidating combo, but on the other hand it also might not be worth sending your opponents elites to deal with them either?
By the way - keep in mind Ravenwing would only work with tartarus, not cataphractii.
What's your take on regular power weapons taking lances over axes, so that if they aren't removed before they're in combat you get a few hits in at higher initiative, even if at AP3? It might help with clearing out tarpits alongside the lightning claws by reducing the amount of incoming damage.
Not fan of thunder hammers for basic Cataphract terminators. To expensive for ws4.
10 termies, lighning claws and a spartan transport, no regrets.
Throw in a SW Speaker too. Disgustingly killy.
@@gordym714 is SW space wolves? What does the speaker do?
I've gone all in on Night Lords 😂
@@mrdelaney4440 He's a combination Chaplain (Hate rerolls for Everything) and Medic (Feel No Pain 5+)
@@gordym714that's pretty good, I was thinking of adding an apothecary and champion to my unit.
@@mrdelaney4440 Normally you can't add an apothecary to Terminators.
Hey, nice video!
You forgot the most 'broken' thing though ;-)
Ultramarine Praetor in Cataphracti can take 'Mantle of Ultramar' -> 4 wounds Battle Hardened (1)
He can run with a squad of Invictarus Suzerian -> line by default, 3 attacks base, everyone can take TH and everyone is a character (you can spread wounds)!! and can take a proteus as dedicated
That squad can be joined by a regular apothecary -> Feel no pain
Warlord trait 'Burden of Kings' on the praetor -> a 4+ It will not die & fearless on the praetor when you allocate a wound to him, and the unit of the preator can react in every phase, without spending an alotment
Enjoy the carnage... with a scoring unit ;-)
Man I’ve just blank spotted that from my memory entirely: I’m literally doing an ultras army for a new channel army (based on the opfor for our Melos events) and I’m trying so hard to leverage balance into suzerain (maybe a praetorian Breacher squad per suzie squad, but even they aren’t BAD
@@BearfootMiniatures One per army is fine IMO, ultramarines have subtle disadvantages, like no strong characters and no strong ROW.
If your opponent plays a very weak list, you can reduce to 5.
Sadly a Praetor in Cataphracti can't take "Mantle of Ultramar" only Legion Praetors can as you have to replace your artificer armor to take it. It is still a beast of a unit even without that.
Where the heck are the indomitus termies?
What do you think about red buttchers
I'm late to the party but Inexorable doesn't help with Psychic tests