Skipping over Dominators from the expanded units is a bit of a mistake IMO, a squad of 5 is the same points as 5 Cataphractii with power fists, meaning they get +1WS +1Ld, Stubborn, chosen warriors, AND THUNDER HAMMERS for free over a regular terminator squad. WS 5 is something I feel IW struggle for and it really helps to have a very strong, well costed unit to fill that gap.
Ye 100% regret it mate, they completely slipped my mind (was in my notes and just got lost in the conversation, I mean I probably use them in 50% of my games as they’re brilliant this Ed!)
@@BearfootMiniatures This is a good point about WS5 - I also don't mind the idea of a unit of combat tooled veterans in IW as a way to get this in the list. Great content btw - I'm getting back into IW again and this was a good video to get the ideas flowing.
Point for point, Dominators are some of the best Terminators in the game, and they really do fit with the Iron Warriors theme. No flashy gear and special rules- just being really, really cost effective. Perturabo would be proud (even though he'd rather die than admit it).
In defence of Tyrant of the Lyssatra, it combines extremely well with Tyrant Siege Terminators: You squeeze 50% more missile which at S8 AP3 will demolish tactical squads and dent tanks without gets hot ignoring your 2+ saves, the loss of Reactions and forced return fire means a lot less since you can park them at long range to blast away out of range of most enemy tacticals. It's not optimal play given the huge points investment, but an Armistos warlord combined with 10 tyrants results in 30 BS5 S8 AP3 missiles per shooting phase- a very fun, very fluffy way to make your opponents regret fielding tanks or tacticals. Even dreadnoughts and terminators are at risk given the number of shots and high strength- chipping 2 or 3 wounds of a Contemptor can make the difference when the time comes to engage it in melee.
I was really looking forward to this legion guide. Thanks for the review. I'm slowly coming around on Perturabo. His melee output with the Forgebreaker is better than I thought initially. I'm still a bit sad he doesn't have the heavy subtype, because all the units I'd like him to join have it. (Iron Circle, Dominators, Tyrants) One thing I think you got wrong was the interaction between krak grenades and wrack and ruin. Unfortunately, krak grenades inflict one auto hit in melee and are not considered attacks. So, they don’t benefit from the +1 to the strength because only shooting and melee attacks do with wrack and ruin.
Thanks for watching mate! As much as I disapprove of all things loyalist hopefully you’ll enjoy the IV, love mine, can’t seem to do any other legion now!
So, you glossed over the fact that Fury of Olympia gives an extra shot at all ranges and isn't constrained by movement like Fury of the Legion. So, you're always going to be putting out at least 2 shots per model in a tactical squad.
@@BearfootMiniatures It was the first thing I noticed about FoO's differences from FotL and made it readily apparent just why you'd pay the extra points for the Shrapnel bolters. 2 shots at 18 gives a very nice benefit against other marines. The added pinning is also nice, and the loss of AP 5 means little to nothing unless you are shooting at Tech Thralls or whatever Cults and Militia get.
Also yall forgot to mention the fact this allows bolters to damage contempors and rhino's, which contemptors are used like everywhere, which is something very useful for counterinf contemptors
Hey mate: I think we said about rhinos (though I’ve tried it a bunch and it’s never been super successful!) and normal legions’ bolters can hurt contemptors on the same number (allows us to hurt Levi’s I suppose)
@@theepicspacemarine8684 mate fair to say I didnt point it out enough if you (or anyone) missed it cos as you say its a noticable bump to what tacticals can do (even if my own experience has been peppering rhinos with letuces!) Just looked up the chart, so S4 can hurt T7, maybe its remembering it from IH contemptors cos bolters cant hurt them!
A PSA for my fellow Warsmiths out there running Perturabo with Forgebreaker: As Forgebreaker doesn't replace the Logos Array, isn't two-handed, and neither weapon has the specialist weapon rule, Perturabo gets an extra attack when using it, bringing him up to seven attacks at base. This doesn't suddenly make him as good as Ferrus in a fight, but it's good to remember nonetheless.
The big thing with +1s weapons imo is it gives a lot more versatility to many heavy weapon choices, volkite, autocannons all become much more threatening to armour as well as infantry
True True, as the meta sort of calms down a bit (which I do think it has around here atleast recently) Im seeing more usage/power to the legion rule, at the start of H2 though where I think stuff went a bit wild it did feel like IW were never really getting bonuses to me
The big problem Perturabo has in my book is WS 7, meaning he hits a lot of the other Primarchs on 5's. I think he is way too pricey for what he brings to the table.
Agreed challenge wise but a sneaky trick is either to accept with a mook OR not go for a challenge to happen atall You position far back within your unit out of engagement range (so can’t be allocated to) You get to your turn at I1 and pile in: hit on the base WS so on 3+ and allocate to the enemy primach and boom a bunch of wounds having no reply coming your way till next turn But ye: really I agree, he’s been battered with the nerf stick a bit too hard IMO, especially for a bloke who banged about deamon angron
I'm new to HH in this edition, and chose IW. I chose them mainly because of Perturarbo after reading (listening to) some of the Black Library books. Perturabo is a whiny twat with daddy issues, but I liked his pragmatism and reasons for rebelling. None of the weird chaos stuff for him. I've built and painted something north of 5k points, and have a similar amount that I'm now building and plan to at least base coat over the Christmas break. I've been able to play a decent number of games against a range of armies. I've loved all of it. I think their army trait is amazing, and was surprised that you guys didn't. I see a heap of dreadnoughts and am seeing more and more tanks. I've leaned heavily into artillery, and can often decimate the opposing army with the help of that special rule. If they're not running my by way of armour or dreadnoughts, the artillery is often strong enough to work effectively against infantry. Either way, I'm a huge fan. :)
Can’t disagree with your pick mate! I don’t dislike their trait in a vacuum, it’s amazing if your opponent is tank heavy, it’s when on comparison to a bunch of other legions which don’t rely on their opponents army to gain their benefit I think it starts to unravel (so if your opponent is tank heavy the power level skyrockets) Doesn’t put me off playing them, don’t seem to be able to ever do another legion! IRON WITHIN!
@@BearfootMiniatures granted, there seems to have been a bit of a "vehicles are shit" meta, meaning we've not seen a heap of tanks. That's changing now, but even before that I saw a heap of transports and an absolute shit-tonne dreadnoughts. That rule is SO helpful against dreadnoughts. That may also be a nuance of my playgroup too. We're not huge - about 6 or 7 regulars. Our own little ecosystem is likely completely different from other places. Mileage may vary... :)
funny enough rack and ruin kinda messes with plasma. in my other armies I use plasma to deal with contemptors reason being it's breaching 4+ and s7 so if you wound a contemptor it's at ap 2. rack and ruin makes it s8 so 3's wound, sure you'll wound more often but i guess its just a feels bad when they bounce the wound on their 2+ save vs being forced to use their 5++.
Couldn’t agree more! I was actually just talking about this with plasma today with Pete and jason from heresy hammer cast! 100% agree, forcing saves doesn’t kill dreads fast enough (or any 2+, as my solar will attest in maaaany games)
@padanfain7466 i guess i was trying to say at s8 you would get more wounds but it feels bad when they get to take it vs their 2+ armor, its just a feels bad for me.
@@ooberallen I guess that's fair, although it does still make Plasma better against light vehicles and T8 stuff (Leviathon dread anyone?), as breaching isn't as good as rending in that you still gave to achieve the strength v toughness roll. Hope that makes sense and I got the rule right.
With the NERF bat being thrown at artillery this edition, we've also lost out both thematically and competitively, especially with the rewrite of Hammer of Olympia. Obvious bias from the rules writer who's an Imp Fist player...
Ye definitely on the the artillery one got the double nerf and only needed to be single (points upped and made worse) I actually prefer hammer like it is actually, I know 4 Heavy is good but I’d actually like things to encourage more aggressive play which I think fury of Olympia does a little
Next edition… next edition… I’m just reminding myself he was so good last Ed: not much love from the team on the rules side IMO (though maybe they didn’t predict less vehicles to the degree it’s happened) Maybe tyrants will be better than fulementarus then and havoks better than sun killers… Saltiness increases!
Shall get them amended in! May do something running through the legacy units etc (though I should’ve put dominators in definitely if I missed them I use them all the time)
Rules for HH are the most confusing rules ever written for any tabletop game. They are needlessly over complicated, over explained, to many choices (most u won’t even consider). The layout of all 3 books is a mess, getting into this system is an absolute pain.
Skipping over Dominators from the expanded units is a bit of a mistake IMO, a squad of 5 is the same points as 5 Cataphractii with power fists, meaning they get +1WS +1Ld, Stubborn, chosen warriors, AND THUNDER HAMMERS for free over a regular terminator squad.
WS 5 is something I feel IW struggle for and it really helps to have a very strong, well costed unit to fill that gap.
Ye 100% regret it mate, they completely slipped my mind (was in my notes and just got lost in the conversation, I mean I probably use them in 50% of my games as they’re brilliant this Ed!)
@@BearfootMiniatures This is a good point about WS5 - I also don't mind the idea of a unit of combat tooled veterans in IW as a way to get this in the list. Great content btw - I'm getting back into IW again and this was a good video to get the ideas flowing.
Point for point, Dominators are some of the best Terminators in the game, and they really do fit with the Iron Warriors theme. No flashy gear and special rules- just being really, really cost effective. Perturabo would be proud (even though he'd rather die than admit it).
In defence of Tyrant of the Lyssatra, it combines extremely well with Tyrant Siege Terminators: You squeeze 50% more missile which at S8 AP3 will demolish tactical squads and dent tanks without gets hot ignoring your 2+ saves, the loss of Reactions and forced return fire means a lot less since you can park them at long range to blast away out of range of most enemy tacticals.
It's not optimal play given the huge points investment, but an Armistos warlord combined with 10 tyrants results in 30 BS5 S8 AP3 missiles per shooting phase- a very fun, very fluffy way to make your opponents regret fielding tanks or tacticals. Even dreadnoughts and terminators are at risk given the number of shots and high strength- chipping 2 or 3 wounds of a Contemptor can make the difference when the time comes to engage it in melee.
I was really looking forward to this legion guide. Thanks for the review.
I'm slowly coming around on Perturabo. His melee output with the Forgebreaker is better than I thought initially. I'm still a bit sad he doesn't have the heavy subtype, because all the units I'd like him to join have it. (Iron Circle, Dominators, Tyrants)
One thing I think you got wrong was the interaction between krak grenades and wrack and ruin. Unfortunately, krak grenades inflict one auto hit in melee and are not considered attacks. So, they don’t benefit from the +1 to the strength because only shooting and melee attacks do with wrack and ruin.
Oooh mental on the krak grenades, didn’t think of it like that atall!
Atleast perty can run if we put him in with… errr…. Nothing?
I know I'm a bit late but thanks for the post. I'm working on Loyalist Iron Warriors.
Thanks for watching mate!
As much as I disapprove of all things loyalist hopefully you’ll enjoy the IV, love mine, can’t seem to do any other legion now!
Awesome! Been waiting for this video.
Thanks for watching mate hopefully was enjoyable!
So, you glossed over the fact that Fury of Olympia gives an extra shot at all ranges and isn't constrained by movement like Fury of the Legion. So, you're always going to be putting out at least 2 shots per model in a tactical squad.
Ye do this is something I actually really like: the lack of movement restriction encourages aggressiveness I think
@@BearfootMiniatures It was the first thing I noticed about FoO's differences from FotL and made it readily apparent just why you'd pay the extra points for the Shrapnel bolters. 2 shots at 18 gives a very nice benefit against other marines. The added pinning is also nice, and the loss of AP 5 means little to nothing unless you are shooting at Tech Thralls or whatever Cults and Militia get.
As an Ultramarine player, who's usual opponent is an Iron Warrior I can tell you that +1 Strength against Tanks and Dreads is extremely powerful.
Running a Caraphractii warsmith attached to a unit of Dominators takes the sting out of Tyrant of the Apolokron.
Ye: their ability to wreck face brings it closer to good haha just don’t like the loss of control on it!
Also yall forgot to mention the fact this allows bolters to damage contempors and rhino's, which contemptors are used like everywhere, which is something very useful for counterinf contemptors
Hey mate: I think we said about rhinos (though I’ve tried it a bunch and it’s never been super successful!) and normal legions’ bolters can hurt contemptors on the same number (allows us to hurt Levi’s I suppose)
Oh yeah mb I misses the rhino thing, and I heard normal bolters couldn't wound contemptors, but I could be wrong on that
Oh yeah mb I misses the rhino thing, and I heard normal bolters couldn't wound contemptors, but I could be wrong on that
@@theepicspacemarine8684 mate fair to say I didnt point it out enough if you (or anyone) missed it cos as you say its a noticable bump to what tacticals can do (even if my own experience has been peppering rhinos with letuces!)
Just looked up the chart, so S4 can hurt T7, maybe its remembering it from IH contemptors cos bolters cant hurt them!
Ah yeah that might be it, yeah it does become less useful when all bolters can wound contemptors
A PSA for my fellow Warsmiths out there running Perturabo with Forgebreaker:
As Forgebreaker doesn't replace the Logos Array, isn't two-handed, and neither weapon has the specialist weapon rule, Perturabo gets an extra attack when using it, bringing him up to seven attacks at base. This doesn't suddenly make him as good as Ferrus in a fight, but it's good to remember nonetheless.
Ooooh didn’t realise that! That’s a really good spot!
The big thing with +1s weapons imo is it gives a lot more versatility to many heavy weapon choices, volkite, autocannons all become much more threatening to armour as well as infantry
True True, as the meta sort of calms down a bit (which I do think it has around here atleast recently) Im seeing more usage/power to the legion rule, at the start of H2 though where I think stuff went a bit wild it did feel like IW were never really getting bonuses to me
The big problem Perturabo has in my book is WS 7, meaning he hits a lot of the other Primarchs on 5's. I think he is way too pricey for what he brings to the table.
Agreed challenge wise but a sneaky trick is either to accept with a mook OR not go for a challenge to happen atall
You position far back within your unit out of engagement range (so can’t be allocated to)
You get to your turn at I1 and pile in: hit on the base WS so on 3+ and allocate to the enemy primach and boom a bunch of wounds having no reply coming your way till next turn
But ye: really I agree, he’s been battered with the nerf stick a bit too hard IMO, especially for a bloke who banged about deamon angron
I'm new to HH in this edition, and chose IW. I chose them mainly because of Perturarbo after reading (listening to) some of the Black Library books. Perturabo is a whiny twat with daddy issues, but I liked his pragmatism and reasons for rebelling. None of the weird chaos stuff for him. I've built and painted something north of 5k points, and have a similar amount that I'm now building and plan to at least base coat over the Christmas break. I've been able to play a decent number of games against a range of armies. I've loved all of it. I think their army trait is amazing, and was surprised that you guys didn't. I see a heap of dreadnoughts and am seeing more and more tanks. I've leaned heavily into artillery, and can often decimate the opposing army with the help of that special rule. If they're not running my by way of armour or dreadnoughts, the artillery is often strong enough to work effectively against infantry. Either way, I'm a huge fan. :)
Can’t disagree with your pick mate!
I don’t dislike their trait in a vacuum, it’s amazing if your opponent is tank heavy, it’s when on comparison to a bunch of other legions which don’t rely on their opponents army to gain their benefit I think it starts to unravel (so if your opponent is tank heavy the power level skyrockets)
Doesn’t put me off playing them, don’t seem to be able to ever do another legion! IRON WITHIN!
@@BearfootMiniatures granted, there seems to have been a bit of a "vehicles are shit" meta, meaning we've not seen a heap of tanks. That's changing now, but even before that I saw a heap of transports and an absolute shit-tonne dreadnoughts. That rule is SO helpful against dreadnoughts. That may also be a nuance of my playgroup too. We're not huge - about 6 or 7 regulars. Our own little ecosystem is likely completely different from other places. Mileage may vary... :)
funny enough rack and ruin kinda messes with plasma. in my other armies I use plasma to deal with contemptors reason being it's breaching 4+ and s7 so if you wound a contemptor it's at ap 2. rack and ruin makes it s8 so 3's wound, sure you'll wound more often but i guess its just a feels bad when they bounce the wound on their 2+ save vs being forced to use their 5++.
Couldn’t agree more! I was actually just talking about this with plasma today with Pete and jason from heresy hammer cast! 100% agree, forcing saves doesn’t kill dreads fast enough (or any 2+, as my solar will attest in maaaany games)
That doesn't make any sense. They are still breaching 4+.
@padanfain7466 i guess i was trying to say at s8 you would get more wounds but it feels bad when they get to take it vs their 2+ armor, its just a feels bad for me.
@@ooberallen I guess that's fair, although it does still make Plasma better against light vehicles and T8 stuff (Leviathon dread anyone?), as breaching isn't as good as rending in that you still gave to achieve the strength v toughness roll. Hope that makes sense and I got the rule right.
With the NERF bat being thrown at artillery this edition, we've also lost out both thematically and competitively, especially with the rewrite of Hammer of Olympia. Obvious bias from the rules writer who's an Imp Fist player...
I mean heresy has never been about competitive play, more rule of cool, but I can see why people would be pissed.
@@matthewlloyd9718 Some of it has clearly been done to sell more models...
Ye definitely on the the artillery one got the double nerf and only needed to be single (points upped and made worse)
I actually prefer hammer like it is actually, I know 4 Heavy is good but I’d actually like things to encourage more aggressive play which I think fury of Olympia does a little
Pertys profile is not correct for a start. He's one of the strongest primarchs up their with Vulcan an co. I mean sure with the hammer he's worse
Next edition… next edition… I’m just reminding myself he was so good last Ed: not much love from the team on the rules side IMO (though maybe they didn’t predict less vehicles to the degree it’s happened)
Maybe tyrants will be better than fulementarus then and havoks better than sun killers… Saltiness increases!
Woah no Narik, Golg, Vhalen, or Dominators? Sad face.
Shall get them amended in! May do something running through the legacy units etc (though I should’ve put dominators in definitely if I missed them I use them all the time)
U mist domanators
Rules for HH are the most confusing rules ever written for any tabletop game. They are needlessly over complicated, over explained, to many choices (most u won’t even consider). The layout of all 3 books is a mess, getting into this system is an absolute pain.
Ye mate: without being really committed to learning the game it would be offputting, definitely an obscuring factor