Agree, but I'm concerned about the effect of COVID for manufacturers to continue that level of commitment to cars like these, with sales numbers already pretty low for sports cars during a GREAT economy. I hope we haven't exited the "Golden age" of modern sports cars.
@@machtschnell7452 This has been the day job for the last three years. Paul went first, then later in the same year Todd followed and starting this year it is my main job as well.
I've always seen the modern 86 as a more literal successor to the Celica than the original Corolla-derived 86, and I had the same thought as you about the 4-cyl "Supra", since historically the Supra was the I-6 version of the 4-cyl. Celica. So, now Toyota sells a Subaru Celica and a BMW Celica and a BMW Supra. No matter what they're called, I'm glad Toyota has so many sports offerings in their lineup. (Just wishing for a "real" manual, but that's a different discussion.)
The overlap between "everyone" and "actual Supra buyers" is close to 0 :). Jaguar offered a manual on the 3.0 F-Type after enthusiasts begged for it, and the final take rate was 4%. Hardly a business case!
@@haaalex IDK about that. Toyota buyers are more likely to be enthusiasts. Go on the Supra forums, more people would say they would've bought the manual if it was available
I've had several mustangs and Camaros as well as a 2013 GS Vette and 2014 Z51. Test drove a Supra yesterday and really loved the car... waiting for delivery later next week. Something visceral about how it drove and I love it. Great review guys!
Just bought a '22 2.0 Supra. Everything you said about the car is true: It is a phenomenal handler and PLENTY quick on the street. The wind buffeting issue is solved with a $9 part you can get online. Actual people in real life love it and ask a ton of questions (mostly "what is that?")! It has an amazing ability to bring some joy back into a world full of soulless and boring vehicles. Drivers: buy one now before you are relegated to an electric transportation pod. Another awesome review Everyday Driver!!
I have 33k miles and ZERO problems. The car is rock solid. Having owned 2 previous BMWs I was well there could be issues but the B48 is a reliable engine and the ZF transmission is also solid. Even the Michelin PSS tires are original but need to be replaced very soon. We put a JB+ tune on it is well worrh the fairly inexpensive price. Definitely can feel a difference.
Great review again guys! I think what you’re feeling is a change in rotational inertia, which is different than weight balance. The 100+ lbs taken off the front came all off from in front of the axle. It’s reducing the weight far from the center of gravity which changes the resistance to rotation. Mid engine and front mid cars turn quickly because most of the weight is between the axles instead of hanging out past them like a pendulum.
First time on this channel and i must say I’m loving the review. I love how technical you guys get and the back and forth discussion makes it feel more honest than other reviews. This is the kind of content we need, and the standard all car reviews should strive for.
Glad you found us and our work and style resonated with you. We’ve been around a while but always thrilled to have new subscribers. Thank you for the big compliments and we appreciate you watching and commenting!
My 2.0 Supra doesn’t drive like a sad 2nd best version at all. It continues to surprise me all the time. It drives with a LOT of confidence and attitude. Like the little brother that’s always trying to prove himself.
Great video! The 2020 3.0 seems to have gotten the version of the B58 out of the base X5 40i and 540i. While during the second year they got the B58 variant out of the M240i, M340i, M440i, X3/4 M40i and Z4 M40i. The 382hp B58 dynoed at 400hp while the new Nissan Z with an advertised 400hp dynoed at around 375hp on the same exact dyno on the same day.
I don't think it is the same out of those cars... they added a lot to it if I am not mistaken. They added different manifolds / pistons/ compressions etc.
Fantastic review! I'd especially like to commend the part where you guys state that the 2.0 would bring just enough power & torque for most folks despite knowing that most of your audience are probably the "no replacement for displacement" kinda people. Kudos!!!
it would be enough if the car looked avg. but the fact that it is so sexy and sporty, it's better to have the 3.0. Trust me. I owned the 2.0 and 3.0. It's mainly the response you get from other drivers. It would be perfect if everyone assumed it was just a regular car. with low hp/torque. They are expecting otherwise and because of that they are crazy on the road when around you. People pull out in front of you. They try to race you. They display jealous road rage, etc. You need the 3.0. The extra breaking power and acceleration saves you from crazy psychotic people on the road. If you are in a rural area and only stay and travel to rural areas, a 2.0 can do.
I don’t think so, adaptive dampers aren’t an easy or inexpensive change and the 2.0 buyer is already paying near $45k so spending anymore money, is money that would be better spent on the much faster and better equipped 3.0.....or one of the extremely low mile 2020 used examples on the market that can be had from mid $40’s
Every time I see it it hits me again just how gorgeous the new Supra is. It evokes a lot of nostalgia for the Viper GTS which was the biggest poster car of my youth. Some people don't care for the proportions, but I love the Daytona Cobra Coupe, I love the Viper GTS, and I love the Supra. Now if you could just get that 2.0L with a 6 speed we'd be all set.
Why on Earth would they only offer it on the base model? So they can have an excuse to discontinue it? Real drivers who want a fun car won't want the base model. Poseurs who don't care about performance or driving fun won't want a manual in their base model sports car. It's the perfect plan for getting away with boning your fanbase.
I've driveen both and i have almost the same opinion, 2.0 is lighter it turns faster, its easy to drive but i rather have the 3.0, even if it doesnt turn as fast, because you feel the more weight on front, but the engine 3 .0 is in my opinion way better. And about wind buffering you're right, its even worst than my old Supra A80 with the targa off. Nice quality of your video and the place where was filmed is beautiful Greetings from Portugal
As an American muscle/sports car guy who currently drives a built C6 Z06, who many years ago was a big Toyota fan with 2 Celica GT's and an 88 Supra (loved them all, particularly the Supra), I have to say, I love these new Supra's, and really want to buy one. But here's the problem...I can get a low-mileage mint C7 Z06 for the same price. This never-ending dilemma is basically why I converted and why I haven't been able to get back to the imports that have a place in my heart. With all that said, you guys produce awesome video's. Keep up the good work!
Corvettes have always provided great bang for the buck, but unfortunately, they have historically been below average in reliability. I've had a C3 and C5 for a total of 34 years. Thus far (6/2023) the 2020+ Supras have had almost no issues, while the C8 Corvettes have had dozens of problems. So you may not be saving money by buying a Corvette. And by the way, the Supra 3.0 is just as fast as a regular C7.
True but the B58 (3.0 supra) has CRAZY aftermarket potential. A simple downpipe and tune literally adds like 150 horsepower. I hope it’s the same case for the B48 (2.0)
Great side by side comparison, guys! I love how you calmly and rationally discuss some of the finer points which matter to real world buyers and drivers. Thanks for the great work as usual!
I don't think it would be much of a competition. The Supra will be better in all categories, but a 2.0 Camaro can had for mid to upper 20k. The 2.0 Supra will probably be $10-15k more. That's massive difference. That's Camaro SS money.
I feel like because of the $10,000 difference between the 2.0 and 3.0 combined with the fact that you guys said that unless you drive them back-to-back you won't notice the subtle differences really, the 2.0 really does make the most sense for most people. Interesting that Toyota said that the 2.0 is supposed to be the Grand Tourer lol
Maybe, but you don't buy an expensive new sportscar because it makes sense; you buy it for fun. Personally, I can't imagine spending $42K on the "cheap" one with the little four-cylinder. I'd have to spring for the six. - BTW, when they mention the slight, incidental advantages of the smaller engine, it just sounds like the stuff someone would say if they could only afford the base model and they're trying to convince themselves it's better.
@@TonyCrispruby You would probably always wonder what if I had the six. For $8000 ish more to get the brilliant inline six to me is a no brainer. I made the "mistakes" by going with 4 cylinder BMWs in a few years back and constantly tell myself to not "save" when I'm already spending that much money. To jump from a turbo charged 4 cylinders to a NA 6 cylinder in my Cayman GTS 4.0, I paid quite a bit of premium, and for its better resale and more dramatic driving experience, I have not regret spending the extra for the bigger NA engine.
@@TonyCrispruby No idea where you heard it. I was not remotely close. the 4 cylinder was also BMW sources. Toyota basically shelled out the money and BMW developed the Z4/Supra with Toyota engineers watching over the shoulders of BMW engineers. Pretty sure Toyota loses money for every Supra sold in today's market, like every other sports-ish car.
This is one of your better reviews. I've been subbed since your first review of your 300ZX more than a decade ago. This one is up there with your Gran Turismo styled review of the GT-R
"This four cylinder takes just a second to gather itself." in two years time this will change to, "This four cylinder takes just a few years to destroy its plastic timing chain guides." Toyota needs to use their influence in this relationship to improve BMWs parts quality. THAT would be the big win for us all.
I wonder if the rumors I heard about Toyota pushing reliability improvements for this car are the reason why the 2.0 came late. Did Toyota attack the frequent maintenance list for this second engine? I am too busy working and being a pleb to look into this myself.
@@doriangray2347 The current BMW 4 cylinder turbo engines are know to wear out their plastic timing chain guides in mileages less than 100k. That is not acceptable with today's understanding of material science.
I reviewed the 2 litre, 4 cylinder on my channel and was left wanting to experience the 6 cylinder with more power. This was a great video. Very insightful guys 👊
Supra must have inline 6. I had a Supra for 23 years 300k miles and it still had its original engine, transmission, shocks and suspension when I sold it. It’s absolutely the best GT Car regardless of price.
GR Supra is not owned by it’s past. Today, it’s a great car that has two very capable engine choices. Even if they put a Porsche 4-cyl turbo in the Supra someone would still complain.
Awesome informative vid. I'm a prospect supra owner (will buy it in about 3 yrs) and this type of vids are a drug for me. I watch every minute, and a lot of times I rewind 10 secs to make sure that I didn't miss a thing. I devour these type of vids. And the two guys are great and they seem to know a lot of the things i wanna hear, but pls don't talk both at the same time
As an Ecoboost Mustang owner, I can tell you that the superior model is definitely not the turbo 4. If you have a smaller budget or something like me, then sure, get a turbo 4 Supra, but one of the main reasons you buy a two seat car is because of the sound it makes.
the supra is a lot lighter than a mustang. in a mustang you need the big engine, because if you remove the cheap power it doesn't have much else to offer. the the supra blends power with handling, so taking away 50 lb-ft torque for 10k doesn't detract too much from the car
Listening to you guys describe the four-cylinder: - But it's lighter! - It has a normal diff that I can anticipate! - It has lighter, less-complicated suspension! - I just wish it came with a manual! You're literally describing an 86. If you don't need a six-cylinder / tons of power, and want a simple sportscar, just buy an 86. It has all these things, it's lighter, it has a stick.
Why would you buy an 86? Still in the 100 hp range like it’s predecessor the AE86. The Supra is way above that despite having the same amount of cylinders. An automatic is faster. The Supra is just faster as well.
@@JimmyDean59 86 still in the hundred hp range? Not correct: the 86 is a 200hp, ~2750lb car. That's 13lbs/hp. The 4cyl Supra is like 12.2lbs/hp. Neither of those is a fast car (IMO cars start to feel quick at about 10lbs/hp-- right where the 6cyl Supra is sitting). Automatic transmissions are faster, but they're less engaging to drive (hence the reviewers' constant crowing about wanting a manual option). The 86 is simpler, the 86 is lighter, the 86 burns less fuel and its smaller, cheaper brakes and tyres will last longer. I'm just saying: the 4cyl Supra offers basically nothing over the 86 (unless you just want the styling of a Supra) and costs more. I personally wouldn't buy the 4- or 6-cyl Supra because I'm not that interested in modern cars and I won't buy something without a manual transmission, but if I were considering a Supra there's no way in hell it would be the 4cyl. The six would be worth it just for the engine sound. If you want a simple, nice-handling, not-that-fast classical sportscar (which is what the reviewers keep saying made them prefer the 4cyl version) then the 86 is the better buy.
Great video! Glad you had the opportunity to make it and share it with us. I drive a C7 Grand Sport and have zero buffeting issues. 👍🏼 I’d like to get behind the wheel of these babies to see if they’re better than my Vette I’ve featured on my channel from a driving perspective (and mine is a manual).
99.9% of people are not going to track their cars much like 99.9% of people are going to take their Ford Raptor, etc off road. The four with a proper six speed is the way to go here. And a better sounding exhaust system. Keep the six with the ZF gearbox if you want but made the four available with a manual gearbox. PLEASE! I would argue that if you put the four on a TIGHT two lane road it would be more fun then the six, then again the six is more fun on roads with long sweepers.
What an amazing presentation. Well edited. I enjoyed the format of this being a conversation rather than a bullet point comparison. First time I really felt like I got an insight into how the experiences of two versions of a given car really differed. Nicely done.
This car is simply wonderful I just received mine from Austria it took me 3 months to get this car to Seattle Washington but it was worth every minute of waiting it's incredible the way you accelerate and brake and you don't even feel it it's very delicate when it comes to accelerate and brake. I have the 2021 Supra GR and they did a wonderful job with the exterior design
i remember as a kid when my family had a 2002 ford mustang and they tried rolling down the windows and the buffeting in that was so extreme that the only time they rolled the windows down was when they were cruising real slow through town in the evenings
This so needs a manual gearbox!!! I have to admit I think they have done a great job even with the BMW engine which was a no no but overall it is a stunning car.
For the performance you get I would take the 2L (cause I can't afford the 3L). You still get the great supra looks and Form the outside you can't tell.
"Nitro Yellow"...is a safety feature...I tell my significant other who despises paying anything extra for paint colors... Your comparison between the 3.0.L and the smaller 4 cylinder....is exactly the same conclusion I came to in choosing the 230i BMW over the M240i BMW....the former felt me nimble to me, had plenty of power for my needs and saved both purchase and insurance dollars.
I just had a look at the BMW Z4 - it's possible to spec the 2.0L with adaptive suspension and a manual gearbox. No roof though! It would be good to go test one of those...
True crank horsepower on the 2021 3.0 is 420-430. The 2.0 makes 290-300. The low factory ratings are typical BMW sandbagging. The engines offered in these are the same as those in the m240i and 230i. Those are both available with a manual transmission, so why not the Supra?
Just test drove a 3.0 GR Supra yesterday here in Utah (like the channel), and I must say the B58 engine is mind-blowingly quick and simply intoxicating. It just pulls and pulls and pulls so effortlessly and so dramatically that you won't care about anything else. I'm sure the 2.0 version is lighter and a bit more nimble in the tight corners, but if you have wide open roads like most Western states, do yourself a favor and by the turbo 3-liter inline six. I'm sure the 4-cylinder would be great if you couldn't exploit the top end power of the 3.0.
I’m also very curious! If the 2.0 Supra is 255 horsepower and the 86 is 205, I’m assuming they would keep it around that number and that the rumored turbocharged model that is “coming” is actually false. It wouldn’t make sense for them to do that if the Supra is 255hp
Given how old my 370 is getting (yes, I heard that mention) and as Nissan doesn't want to play in the space - the 3.0 Supra is looking like a good replacement. My 370z also has buffeting
Looking like a new Z is incoming. Hold out and see how it looks next to the Supra. My money is on the Supra being the better car, but with Ghosn gone maybe Nissan can get a car with character on the road.
That car looks so much better in white than any other color I’ve seen it in. The red, blue, and yellow colors just don’t do it for me. I haven’t seen a silver one yet but I doubt it’s as cool looking as the white. Gorgeous car.
That’s why I love the TI Sport. You can have and also get plenty of power from a 2.0. My favorite numbers for a 2 liter are 350 hp with 350 torque. Which can be done. Thank You 🙏 for all your great input on all your shows. You are my favorite car show period!!!!
If they put a manual in it I would buy it in a heartbeat. After test driving I couldn’t give up my 370z for the Supra, the automatic kills it for me on the street. Extremely capable but not very engaging, on track I’m sure it’s fantastic, but it needs a manual for the street imo.
I’m kinds of in the same boat man. I got a modded sti, 34k miles, test driving this was fun but I missed the engagement. I just felt like I was driving a normal car. Not a SPORT car.
I don't know how Toyota did all these changes but didn't fix the wind buffering issue with a window down. Sports cars need a manual option. Shame Toyota won't do it here. Also C&D released there dyno result showing that it makes that up at the wheels. Wish this came with a Powertrain Warranty for longer than 60k miles given the source of the car.
I work at a Toyota and my manager recently went to Vegas with Toyota for the unveil of the Tundra etc. And they did confirm a manual supra. What engine choice? what power etc no clue. But they did confirm it.
I remember at Goodwood when they unveiled this car. The chief designer of this car said to buy the 4cyl if you wanted to 2JZ swap it. It’s would be a lot simpler to do.
The discussion and banter during these videos is the secret sauce of Everyday Driver. And, in these challenging times, reminds me how much I miss hanging out and talking cars with friends. /sigh Keep it up, gents. Doing awesome.
I hate wind buffeting because i like driving my cars with windows down. Of course all cars have it, some less some more. But if it really is a strong issue on the car, this alone would hold me back from buying this car.
All the things (or almost all the things) you complained about in the 2L is fixed, you can now get it with adaptive suspension, the sports differential and the yellow color is now the base color. Atleast in Norway it is... Its trim level is called "GR Supra Sport".
Just needs the manual and if I could afford it in a few years I’d pick one up for sure. Even if auto is faster it’s more a car for fun and driver skills.
Too bad the market doesn’t dictate it. I am a manual lover too, but it’s seems like there’s a lot of fake manual lovers out there, because when manufacturers offer a manual nobody buys it !!!
Beautiful video as always! I can't stop but to think that the 86 twins were never "allowed" to be faster than the base Supra.. going to be interesting what they do with the new 86 platform.
Regardless of how this is, I honestly believe that a 2020 Supra with a Toyota engine in it with a manual, would be a much more commercial success than any other combo. BMW is sweet and all, but it's not a Toyota at heart, and that to me matters.
I tend to agree that the 2.0 is more than enough for most people (3.0 sounds amazing though) 0-60 in 4.8s range, is very good acceleration. Just sucks to know the BMW 330i uses the same B48 engine and 8hp51 transmission, as the Supra 2.0, but accelerates to 60 , .6 seconds slower (5.4 seconds). That's a huge difference but it is accounted for by the 2.0s 3100lb curb weight, vs the 330is 3500lb curb weight. With the 330i B48 vs the 340i B58, the latter is the better option, because the extra power does help to get the car into 'quick' territory (sub 5 second range). However, with bolt ons, and a more aggressive tune, it is possible to get the 330i B48 , 0-60 time under 5 seconds (~4.6s).
The fact that Toyota updates this car just one year after its release is a really good sign of future development with this chassis from Toyota.
Agree, but I'm concerned about the effect of COVID for manufacturers to continue that level of commitment to cars like these, with sales numbers already pretty low for sports cars during a GREAT economy. I hope we haven't exited the "Golden age" of modern sports cars.
First its BMW whos doing the work, second, no, it means the previous ones were not good enough
leoaleromm bmw is doing what work ?
Toyota4Life lol didn’t you know that like 90% of the car including the powertrain is all BMW?
It's bmw not Toyota, BMW updated the B58 engine M340i there are so many clueless people in here
Why do you guys not high five when you walk by each other on the driver swap, since you have the best job of all time?
I keep hoping for a Will Smith-DJ Jazzy Jeff dap every time they swap seats 🤞🏼
I've been thinking that lately too! Just a nice casual walking high-five.
Unless things have changed in the last few years, this is not their day job.
Thank for making this comment, now I dont have to 😂
@@machtschnell7452 This has been the day job for the last three years. Paul went first, then later in the same year Todd followed and starting this year it is my main job as well.
should this new 4-cylinder have been called the "Celica" Supra? hmmmm...
No. The 2.0 is essentially the sz and the 3.0 is the rz
Celica GTS
I've always seen the modern 86 as a more literal successor to the Celica than the original Corolla-derived 86, and I had the same thought as you about the 4-cyl "Supra", since historically the Supra was the I-6 version of the 4-cyl. Celica.
So, now Toyota sells a Subaru Celica and a BMW Celica and a BMW Supra.
No matter what they're called, I'm glad Toyota has so many sports offerings in their lineup. (Just wishing for a "real" manual, but that's a different discussion.)
Joel Ness how?
no because its not fwd
aka Supra 335i vs Supra 328i
Beempra
40i vs 30i
Wow you made a joke about it being a collaboration with BMW. How original.
Lmfao
@@sigmaoctantis_nz I think you mean entirely built by BMW. That's why it's trash
Toyota didn't cheap out and put a mechanical LSD on the 2 liter. I'm sold.
Everyone: Put a manual in the Supra
Toyota: How about an engine with less cylinders?
Everyone: .....
The overlap between "everyone" and "actual Supra buyers" is close to 0 :).
Jaguar offered a manual on the 3.0 F-Type after enthusiasts begged for it, and the final take rate was 4%. Hardly a business case!
@@haaalex so true lol.
The auto is simply superior
@@haaalex IDK about that. Toyota buyers are more likely to be enthusiasts. Go on the Supra forums, more people would say they would've bought the manual if it was available
@@philspaghet Well people who buy the 86 mostly buy it auto compared to people who bought the BRZ who bought it in manual so i see why they wouldnt
Very interesting review! Especially the true side-by-side comparison and discussion gave me a very good picture of the two cars. Loved this!
Hmmmm.
Wasn’t expecting to see you here.
Planning on getting a Supra?
You should quit milsim and start become a car youtuber
this dude gonna buy a supra
Hmm very unexpected Drewski!
drewski??
I've had several mustangs and Camaros as well as a 2013 GS Vette and 2014 Z51. Test drove a Supra yesterday and really loved the car... waiting for delivery later next week. Something visceral about how it drove and I love it.
Great review guys!
Just bought a '22 2.0 Supra. Everything you said about the car is true: It is a phenomenal handler and PLENTY quick on the street. The wind buffeting issue is solved with a $9 part you can get online. Actual people in real life love it and ask a ton of questions (mostly "what is that?")! It has an amazing ability to bring some joy back into a world full of soulless and boring vehicles. Drivers: buy one now before you are relegated to an electric transportation pod.
Another awesome review Everyday Driver!!
Why dont you mention the 9$ part and a pink
Link
Lots of install videos too. Easy!
It's been 2 years since your comment how's the car holding up?
I have 33k miles and ZERO problems. The car is rock solid. Having owned 2 previous BMWs I was well there could be issues but the B48 is a reliable engine and the ZF transmission is also solid. Even the Michelin PSS tires are original but need to be replaced very soon. We put a JB+ tune on it is well worrh the fairly inexpensive price. Definitely can feel a difference.
Great review again guys! I think what you’re feeling is a change in rotational inertia, which is different than weight balance. The 100+ lbs taken off the front came all off from in front of the axle. It’s reducing the weight far from the center of gravity which changes the resistance to rotation. Mid engine and front mid cars turn quickly because most of the weight is between the axles instead of hanging out past them like a pendulum.
You are exactly right, and that's why we spent so much time on the front-mid-engine discussion. Thanks for watching and hope to see you soon!
I would take the 4 cylinder for the track. Those were the Ones that won Races!
when there's a straight, it will be pretty easy for the 3.0 to apply social distancing...
Lol
....haha......
2.0 Supra VS. 2.3Ecoboost Mustang would love to see that.
When I heard about the 2.0, I immediately thought that it was the one to get. Thank you guys for the excellent content.
First time on this channel and i must say I’m loving the review. I love how technical you guys get and the back and forth discussion makes it feel more honest than other reviews. This is the kind of content we need, and the standard all car reviews should strive for.
Glad you found us and our work and style resonated with you. We’ve been around a while but always thrilled to have new subscribers. Thank you for the big compliments and we appreciate you watching and commenting!
My 2.0 Supra doesn’t drive like a sad 2nd best version at all. It continues to surprise me all the time. It drives with a LOT of confidence and attitude. Like the little brother that’s always trying to prove himself.
Great video! The 2020 3.0 seems to have gotten the version of the B58 out of the base X5 40i and 540i. While during the second year they got the B58 variant out of the M240i, M340i, M440i, X3/4 M40i and Z4 M40i. The 382hp B58 dynoed at 400hp while the new Nissan Z with an advertised 400hp dynoed at around 375hp on the same exact dyno on the same day.
I don't think it is the same out of those cars... they added a lot to it if I am not mistaken. They added different manifolds / pistons/ compressions etc.
Fantastic review! I'd especially like to commend the part where you guys state that the 2.0 would bring just enough power & torque for most folks despite knowing that most of your audience are probably the "no replacement for displacement" kinda people.
Kudos!!!
it would be enough if the car looked avg. but the fact that it is so sexy and sporty, it's better to have the 3.0. Trust me. I owned the 2.0 and 3.0. It's mainly the response you get from other drivers. It would be perfect if everyone assumed it was just a regular car. with low hp/torque. They are expecting otherwise and because of that they are crazy on the road when around you. People pull out in front of you. They try to race you. They display jealous road rage, etc. You need the 3.0. The extra breaking power and acceleration saves you from crazy psychotic people on the road. If you are in a rural area and only stay and travel to rural areas, a 2.0 can do.
@@supertenor561so u are buying a car to suit others on the road and not u? 🤔
Buy the better car because the 4cyl is boring.
I suspect it won’t take the aftermarket very long to come up with a great adaptive damper setup for the 4 cylinder car.
I don’t think so, adaptive dampers aren’t an easy or inexpensive change and the 2.0 buyer is already paying near $45k so spending anymore money, is money that would be better spent on the much faster and better equipped 3.0.....or one of the extremely low mile 2020 used examples on the market that can be had from mid $40’s
Every time I see it it hits me again just how gorgeous the new Supra is. It evokes a lot of nostalgia for the Viper GTS which was the biggest poster car of my youth. Some people don't care for the proportions, but I love the Daytona Cobra Coupe, I love the Viper GTS, and I love the Supra. Now if you could just get that 2.0L with a 6 speed we'd be all set.
5:55 SHIFT, MAN! SHIFT! .....
6:17 Ugh, finally!! Lol
It should be the sport mode or something is wrong with the trans
They prob kept it in manual shift mode and held the gear
same thing at 9:00 ugh. so irritating
Horrible! Was driving me crazy.
Had to stop watching, the droning was intolerable
The 4 cylinder needs a manual transmission!
Why on Earth would they only offer it on the base model? So they can have an excuse to discontinue it?
Real drivers who want a fun car won't want the base model. Poseurs who don't care about performance or driving fun won't want a manual in their base model sports car. It's the perfect plan for getting away with boning your fanbase.
Junior e39 ///M5 trueee (mk4 have manual)
I've driveen both and i have almost the same opinion, 2.0 is lighter it turns faster, its easy to drive but i rather have the 3.0, even if it doesnt turn as fast, because you feel the more weight on front, but the engine 3 .0 is in my opinion way better.
And about wind buffering you're right, its even worst than my old Supra A80 with the targa off.
Nice quality of your video and the place where was filmed is beautiful
Greetings from Portugal
As an American muscle/sports car guy who currently drives a built C6 Z06, who many years ago was a big Toyota fan with 2 Celica GT's and an 88 Supra (loved them all, particularly the Supra), I have to say, I love these new Supra's, and really want to buy one. But here's the problem...I can get a low-mileage mint C7 Z06 for the same price. This never-ending dilemma is basically why I converted and why I haven't been able to get back to the imports that have a place in my heart. With all that said, you guys produce awesome video's. Keep up the good work!
I call this the Corvette conundrum. Almost whatever you're shopping for there's a Corvette that's faster and cheaper.
Corvettes have always provided great bang for the buck, but unfortunately, they have historically been below average in reliability. I've had a C3 and C5 for a total of 34 years. Thus far (6/2023) the 2020+ Supras have had almost no issues, while the C8 Corvettes have had dozens of problems. So you may not be saving money by buying a Corvette. And by the way, the Supra 3.0 is just as fast as a regular C7.
i have a feeling once the after market catches up to the 2.0 liter version its gonna be really fast
True but the B58 (3.0 supra) has CRAZY aftermarket potential. A simple downpipe and tune literally adds like 150 horsepower. I hope it’s the same case for the B48 (2.0)
Great side by side comparison, guys! I love how you calmly and rationally discuss some of the finer points which matter to real world buyers and drivers. Thanks for the great work as usual!
Glad you enjoyed and pleased to hear it was helpful to you. Thanks for watching!
Also, I would like to see a match up between the 2.0 Supra vs. the 2.0 Camaro.
I don't think it would be much of a competition. The Supra will be better in all categories, but a 2.0 Camaro can had for mid to upper 20k. The 2.0 Supra will probably be $10-15k more. That's massive difference. That's Camaro SS money.
Think thats a good idea and throw in the 4cyl mustang also
I would like to see a match up between the 2.0 Supra and 2020 Corolla LE sedan. I bet the Corolla handles better and is more fun to drive.
We don’t talk about the 2.0 Camaro quiet now
I don't get the point of having a Camaro with half an engine but at least it can be had with a manual
Sounds like a mother that loves both of her kids equally, even though one of them is not quiet up to par with the other.
I feel like because of the $10,000 difference between the 2.0 and 3.0 combined with the fact that you guys said that unless you drive them back-to-back you won't notice the subtle differences really, the 2.0 really does make the most sense for most people. Interesting that Toyota said that the 2.0 is supposed to be the Grand Tourer lol
Maybe, but you don't buy an expensive new sportscar because it makes sense; you buy it for fun. Personally, I can't imagine spending $42K on the "cheap" one with the little four-cylinder. I'd have to spring for the six.
-
BTW, when they mention the slight, incidental advantages of the smaller engine, it just sounds like the stuff someone would say if they could only afford the base model and they're trying to convince themselves it's better.
I hear what you're saying, but sign me up for the six.
@@TonyCrispruby You would probably always wonder what if I had the six. For $8000 ish more to get the brilliant inline six to me is a no brainer. I made the "mistakes" by going with 4 cylinder BMWs in a few years back and constantly tell myself to not "save" when I'm already spending that much money. To jump from a turbo charged 4 cylinders to a NA 6 cylinder in my Cayman GTS 4.0, I paid quite a bit of premium, and for its better resale and more dramatic driving experience, I have not regret spending the extra for the bigger NA engine.
with a 10k differences, might as well just get the 3.0
@@TonyCrispruby No idea where you heard it. I was not remotely close. the 4 cylinder was also BMW sources. Toyota basically shelled out the money and BMW developed the Z4/Supra with Toyota engineers watching over the shoulders of BMW engineers. Pretty sure Toyota loses money for every Supra sold in today's market, like every other sports-ish car.
This is one of your better reviews. I've been subbed since your first review of your 300ZX more than a decade ago. This one is up there with your Gran Turismo styled review of the GT-R
Pleased to hear you enjoyed it that much. Thanks for watching and being with us for so long!
Great review and I really like having you both in the same car and having a natural conversation. I hate the driver swap edits.
I'd go with the 2.0 just based on less part complexity.
Excellent review guys. It's great that you guys are able to balance TV and youtube so well. Many other channels aren't able to.
"This four cylinder takes just a second to gather itself." in two years time this will change to, "This four cylinder takes just a few years to destroy its plastic timing chain guides." Toyota needs to use their influence in this relationship to improve BMWs parts quality. THAT would be the big win for us all.
I wonder if the rumors I heard about Toyota pushing reliability improvements for this car are the reason why the 2.0 came late. Did Toyota attack the frequent maintenance list for this second engine? I am too busy working and being a pleb to look into this myself.
Any word on this?
What are you referring to exactly? Need to know!
@@doriangray2347 The current BMW 4 cylinder turbo engines are know to wear out their plastic timing chain guides in mileages less than 100k. That is not acceptable with today's understanding of material science.
if they make a manual i WILL FIND A WAY to get one!!
I reviewed the 2 litre, 4 cylinder on my channel and was left wanting to experience the 6 cylinder with more power. This was a great video. Very insightful guys 👊
Glad you enjoyed. Thanks for watching!
I need that 4 cylinder in a manual. As fearful as i am of bmw reliability.... you’ll at least get me into the showroom if you offer me a manual.
Recent BMW 4 cylinders have been very reliable
Though as bad as the reputation is, these B series engine are said to built quite strong and I would expect them to be quite reliable
I too enjoy outdated technology
Worldwide Darts some people make their vehicle decisions based on the experience and not the tech. Just comes down to personal preference.
Well, then search for 428i manual.
This duo has been making the rounds with western US based car reviewers. This is by far the best and most insightful review! Thanks guys
I have always loved the chemistry between you guys. Glad to see this review!
Supra must have inline 6.
I had a Supra for 23 years 300k miles and it still had its original engine, transmission, shocks and suspension when I sold it. It’s absolutely the best GT Car regardless of price.
Driving on 300k mike suspension isn’t cool at all
300k miles on original suspension?
GR Supra is not owned by it’s past. Today, it’s a great car that has two very capable engine choices. Even if they put a Porsche 4-cyl turbo in the Supra someone would still complain.
hearing Paul explain at 14:27 the suspension differences, I'm hearing "Max, you'd prefer the 2 liter".
Awesome informative vid. I'm a prospect supra owner (will buy it in about 3 yrs) and this type of vids are a drug for me. I watch every minute, and a lot of times I rewind 10 secs to make sure that I didn't miss a thing. I devour these type of vids. And the two guys are great and they seem to know a lot of the things i wanna hear, but pls don't talk both at the same time
Did you buy it 👀
As an Ecoboost Mustang owner, I can tell you that the superior model is definitely not the turbo 4. If you have a smaller budget or something like me, then sure, get a turbo 4 Supra, but one of the main reasons you buy a two seat car is because of the sound it makes.
the supra is a lot lighter than a mustang. in a mustang you need the big engine, because if you remove the cheap power it doesn't have much else to offer. the the supra blends power with handling, so taking away 50 lb-ft torque for 10k doesn't detract too much from the car
@@traviswebster8302 That’s definitely the opinion of someone who has never driven an Ecoboost Mustang
Listening to you guys describe the four-cylinder:
- But it's lighter!
- It has a normal diff that I can anticipate!
- It has lighter, less-complicated suspension!
- I just wish it came with a manual!
You're literally describing an 86. If you don't need a six-cylinder / tons of power, and want a simple sportscar, just buy an 86. It has all these things, it's lighter, it has a stick.
Why would you buy an 86? Still in the 100 hp range like it’s predecessor the AE86. The Supra is way above that despite having the same amount of cylinders. An automatic is faster. The Supra is just faster as well.
@@JimmyDean59 86 still in the hundred hp range? Not correct: the 86 is a 200hp, ~2750lb car. That's 13lbs/hp. The 4cyl Supra is like 12.2lbs/hp. Neither of those is a fast car (IMO cars start to feel quick at about 10lbs/hp-- right where the 6cyl Supra is sitting). Automatic transmissions are faster, but they're less engaging to drive (hence the reviewers' constant crowing about wanting a manual option). The 86 is simpler, the 86 is lighter, the 86 burns less fuel and its smaller, cheaper brakes and tyres will last longer.
I'm just saying: the 4cyl Supra offers basically nothing over the 86 (unless you just want the styling of a Supra) and costs more.
I personally wouldn't buy the 4- or 6-cyl Supra because I'm not that interested in modern cars and I won't buy something without a manual transmission, but if I were considering a Supra there's no way in hell it would be the 4cyl. The six would be worth it just for the engine sound. If you want a simple, nice-handling, not-that-fast classical sportscar (which is what the reviewers keep saying made them prefer the 4cyl version) then the 86 is the better buy.
Love that frame rate syncing with the wheels rotation at 7:50
Great video! Glad you had the opportunity to make it and share it with us. I drive a C7 Grand Sport and have zero buffeting issues. 👍🏼 I’d like to get behind the wheel of these babies to see if they’re better than my Vette I’ve featured on my channel from a driving perspective (and mine is a manual).
If only you could get the 6 cylinder, in a manual with all of the weight reductions and simplifications of the 4 cylinder's chassis.
99.9% of people are not going to track their cars much like 99.9% of people are going to take their Ford Raptor, etc off road. The four with a proper six speed is the way to go here. And a better sounding exhaust system. Keep the six with the ZF gearbox if you want but made the four available with a manual gearbox. PLEASE!
I would argue that if you put the four on a TIGHT two lane road it would be more fun then the six, then again the six is more fun on roads with long sweepers.
You can fix the buffeting with a really simple part that goes on the side view mirror mount. Bros FOURR Speed has a video on it.
Got a link to share?
Why do you have to pay more to fix basic issues on such an expensive car?
@@KaitouKaiju satan
What an amazing presentation. Well edited. I enjoyed the format of this being a conversation rather than a bullet point comparison. First time I really felt like I got an insight into how the experiences of two versions of a given car really differed. Nicely done.
Glad you enjoyed. Thank you for watching!
Best one is used 2019 for cheaper than 2.0
This car is simply wonderful I just received mine from Austria it took me 3 months to get this car to Seattle Washington but it was worth every minute of waiting it's incredible the way you accelerate and brake and you don't even feel it it's very delicate when it comes to accelerate and brake.
I have the 2021 Supra GR and they did a wonderful job with the exterior design
Wakanda Forever exactly !!!! I still do not quite understand what role Toyota plays here. It should have a BMW badge!? 😊
In my humble opinion, this partnership with BMW will result in a monster powered Supra, let's hope for the best
How about your non humble opinion?
They need to give it a manual gearbox before they start changing anything else. 3 pedals or go home.
@@Mrmudbone_gaming LMFAO!!! Hahahah
i remember as a kid when my family had a 2002 ford mustang and they tried rolling down the windows and the buffeting in that was so extreme that the only time they rolled the windows down was when they were cruising real slow through town in the evenings
This so needs a manual gearbox!!! I have to admit I think they have done a great job even with the BMW engine which was a no no but overall it is a stunning car.
You guys are always so wonderfully thoughtful and descriptive in your reviews.
Glad you enjoyed this. Thanks for watching!
Same same....but different....but STILL SAME!!!
We have.... different engines. We have different.... differentials! But inside, we are same-same!
I like that flighty Jonathan!
still can get 100% more car with a C8 for the same price
I subbed finally after watching for a while. You guys just give me the right vibe for a beer and hours of car talk.
7:41 you can see todd's minor steering corrections in the slight differences in rotational speeds of the wheels (emphasized by the shutter)
For the performance you get I would take the 2L (cause I can't afford the 3L). You still get the great supra looks and Form the outside you can't tell.
I've never understood why people slam doors on Japanese cars. They're not heavy like American car doors.
A very trivial thing to announce
This car is german lool
Right when I read this comment, I heard the thud.
"Nitro Yellow"...is a safety feature...I tell my significant other who despises paying anything extra for paint colors... Your comparison between the 3.0.L and the smaller 4 cylinder....is exactly the same conclusion I came to in choosing the 230i BMW over the M240i BMW....the former felt me nimble to me, had plenty of power for my needs and saved both purchase and insurance dollars.
Do a comparison - Supra 3.0 2021 vs Corvette C8 vs Caymen GTS
the 2.0 makes my head jump straight to mods.....lighter wheels, better suspension, better brakes, maybe a tune.....I want it
I just had a look at the BMW Z4 - it's possible to spec the 2.0L with adaptive suspension and a manual gearbox. No roof though!
It would be good to go test one of those...
Wait there’s a manual option on the Z4?
Why doesn’t Toyota offer them? This car will actually sell more with a manual
In germany you get the premium package with the bigger brakes, elektrical seats, adaptive suspension 😎. Perfekt car 👍
True crank horsepower on the 2021 3.0 is 420-430. The 2.0 makes 290-300. The low factory ratings are typical BMW sandbagging. The engines offered in these are the same as those in the m240i and 230i. Those are both available with a manual transmission, so why not the Supra?
M140i owners have known about the power of this 3.0 straight 6 for a long time. Especially after a remap :-p
Just test drove a 3.0 GR Supra yesterday here in Utah (like the channel), and I must say the B58 engine is mind-blowingly quick and simply intoxicating. It just pulls and pulls and pulls so effortlessly and so dramatically that you won't care about anything else. I'm sure the 2.0 version is lighter and a bit more nimble in the tight corners, but if you have wide open roads like most Western states, do yourself a favor and by the turbo 3-liter inline six. I'm sure the 4-cylinder would be great if you couldn't exploit the top end power of the 3.0.
the newer 3.0L has dyno'd much higher than advertised as well.
I am enjoying this show. Simplicity works.
Wondering how the 2.0 compares to the all new GR86 coming next year... hmm.
I’m also very curious! If the 2.0 Supra is 255 horsepower and the 86 is 205, I’m assuming they would keep it around that number and that the rumored turbocharged model that is “coming” is actually false. It wouldn’t make sense for them to do that if the Supra is 255hp
It’s makes about 440 hp at the crank. And the older one made 390. So still 50hp difference.
I just put a deposit down for the manual
Given how old my 370 is getting (yes, I heard that mention) and as Nissan doesn't want to play in the space - the 3.0 Supra is looking like a good replacement. My 370z also has buffeting
Looking like a new Z is incoming. Hold out and see how it looks next to the Supra. My money is on the Supra being the better car, but with Ghosn gone maybe Nissan can get a car with character on the road.
Please oh please give it a manual. If so, expect me in the showroom
That car looks so much better in white than any other color I’ve seen it in. The red, blue, and yellow colors just don’t do it for me. I haven’t seen a silver one yet but I doubt it’s as cool looking as the white. Gorgeous car.
I can't wait for my A91 to arrive
Did you get it?
That’s why I love the TI Sport. You can have and also get plenty of power from a 2.0. My favorite numbers for a 2 liter are 350 hp with 350 torque. Which can be done. Thank You 🙏 for all your great input on all your shows. You are my favorite car show period!!!!
A big compliment. Thank you!
If they put a manual in it I would buy it in a heartbeat. After test driving I couldn’t give up my 370z for the Supra, the automatic kills it for me on the street. Extremely capable but not very engaging, on track I’m sure it’s fantastic, but it needs a manual for the street imo.
😂
I like the capability I can do without a manual
I’m kinds of in the same boat man. I got a modded sti, 34k miles, test driving this was fun but I missed the engagement. I just felt like I was driving a normal car. Not a SPORT car.
I don't know how Toyota did all these changes but didn't fix the wind buffering issue with a window down. Sports cars need a manual option. Shame Toyota won't do it here. Also C&D released there dyno result showing that it makes that up at the wheels. Wish this came with a Powertrain Warranty for longer than 60k miles given the source of the car.
Incredible backdrop, amazing scenery!
I work at a Toyota and my manager recently went to Vegas with Toyota for the unveil of the Tundra etc. And they did confirm a manual supra. What engine choice? what power etc no clue. But they did confirm it.
Nothing wrong with 2.0 4 cylinders, look at Subaru STI EJ20 4 cylinders.
I remember at Goodwood when they unveiled this car. The chief designer of this car said to buy the 4cyl if you wanted to 2JZ swap it. It’s would be a lot simpler to do.
For reasons other than cost?
Bryan Liguori less electrics to play with and cheaper.
3400 lbs is not bad in general, but for such a small car it does seem kind of high.
If it was 3,000 lbs I'd have to get one
smaller than the AE86, but weighs 600lbs more...two more cylinder and a turbo don't weigh 600lbs
The discussion and banter during these videos is the secret sauce of Everyday Driver. And, in these challenging times, reminds me how much I miss hanging out and talking cars with friends. /sigh Keep it up, gents. Doing awesome.
Glad you enjoyed. Thank you very much for watching!
What are you talking about? 200lbs are definitely considerable, that is serious weight savings, Im surprised you don't know that
I was looking for someone else to mention this lol. 200+ lbs is a huge weight difference
I hate wind buffeting because i like driving my cars with windows down. Of course all cars have it, some less some more. But if it really is a strong issue on the car, this alone would hold me back from buying this car.
They make the 4 banger with a man-Tran. I’m getting it. Full exhaust and a tune would make it a fun little car. 👍
Man-tran but kiddo engine lol!!😂😂 4 bangers are for beginners! A real man’s car has a V8 in it.
@@RBZ06LT6oh boy...-.-
@@RBZ06LT6 what a big American V8 that needs 6 litres to get 500HP out of it?
4 cylinder and a manual transmission would be loved by a lot of people, just having that option would increase sales
Paul has rubbed off on me with his Porsche love. Picked up a 996 C4S for my wife as her daily. I got to admit it is an awesome car.
aszrael1266 i just got a macan turbo with a lowering module and a Cobb tune because of him. Super happy.
All the things (or almost all the things) you complained about in the 2L is fixed, you can now get it with adaptive suspension, the sports differential and the yellow color is now the base color. Atleast in Norway it is... Its trim level is called "GR Supra Sport".
Never drive the faster car First !!!
Fun Fact, with the driver in the cabin; the weight distribution of the 3.0L goes ~50/50% and the 2.0L goes ~49/51%!
I really would like a Supra with a 5 cylinder. That would fit the car so well, it has so much character :)
then they should have partnered with audi... but then the car would just be understeary shit, with good noise.
Nothing fits a supra like an inline 6......
Just needs the manual and if I could afford it in a few years I’d pick one up for sure. Even if auto is faster it’s more a car for fun and driver skills.
This car definitely needs a Manual!! I'm sold on a Manual 🤗
mazda man 09 does toyota have a good manual currently?
@@tinhinnh in the new corolla😊
Too bad the market doesn’t dictate it. I am a manual lover too, but it’s seems like there’s a lot of fake manual lovers out there, because when manufacturers offer a manual nobody buys it !!!
mazda man 09 can it handle the power
V60 Polestar exactly
Really like the way the wheels look when spinning! Nice video guys!
Beautiful video as always! I can't stop but to think that the 86 twins were never "allowed" to be faster than the base Supra.. going to be interesting what they do with the new 86 platform.
Regardless of how this is, I honestly believe that a 2020 Supra with a Toyota engine in it with a manual, would be a much more commercial success than any other combo. BMW is sweet and all, but it's not a Toyota at heart, and that to me matters.
I like real life. Manual transmission. My weekend ride 87 Conquest.
You mean a Starquest lol
TSI? Loved those.
@@mannynazario2140 No I meant what I said. It's badged Conquest.
Adrian Hill He’s referencing the Mitsubishi twin, the Starion.
@@eriknephrongfr8847 Yes, I believe there was a regular Conquest and the Conquest TSI (American Starion).
I tend to agree that the 2.0 is more than enough for most people (3.0 sounds amazing though) 0-60 in 4.8s range, is very good acceleration. Just sucks to know the BMW 330i uses the same B48 engine and 8hp51 transmission, as the Supra 2.0, but accelerates to 60 , .6 seconds slower (5.4 seconds). That's a huge difference but it is accounted for by the 2.0s 3100lb curb weight, vs the 330is 3500lb curb weight. With the 330i B48 vs the 340i B58, the latter is the better option, because the extra power does help to get the car into 'quick' territory (sub 5 second range). However, with bolt ons, and a more aggressive tune, it is possible to get the 330i B48 , 0-60 time under 5 seconds (~4.6s).