I'm trying to determine if the komandante c40 actually delivers taste (via its uniformity of grind) that is superior to my virtuoso. And are there any upgrades or replacement burrs for the virtuoso that will deliver equal uniformity to the komandante.
I've had one since they first shipped (it was one of those crowd sourcing products) and previously used a Baratza. I can say without a doubt, that Mocamaster coffee is far more flavorful and better balanced with this grinder than the Baratza. It excels for brewing methods using medium to course grinds. I don't live in a very dry climate, and it is less messy than the plastic hopper of the Baratza, which is more prone to static electricity. I believe Fellow is working on an alternate set of burrs with a wider grinder size range, as well as improvements for the messiness complaints, so I would say it is a good investment. If you brew espresso, you're going to be looking at an $1,800 to $3,000 grinder, so I would say just go to your favorite coffee shop for that.
you dont need a thousand dollar grinder for espresso lmao. you can get away with a 400 dollar lagom mini and make espresso that some say is better than the niche zero.
thank you - I'm moving temporarily and will have 3 roommates at my "new" place, and the noise of the Baraza is not something I want to subject my roommates to. This is the only review I've come across where they actually SHOW you how it sounds, and even better - directly compares it to the Baraza.
It should be noted that Fellow says they are working on an updated version of the Ode that addresses some of its flaws. We don't know exactly when that will be released, but we look forward to testing when it is.
Not a huge coffee aficionado, just want to give a shout out to the Oxo grinder. Have had it for two years, using it with a french press. That combo has been making tasty coffee for us for two years, pretty hard to fault it!
Thanks so much for this video! Moka Pot coffee is working fine?! That's what I need to hear! It's annoying to change my espresso grinder to courser settings and loose the dialled in espresso setting. So... Do you think this is a good addition to an espresso grinder if I go for French Press / Moka pot?
I have the Baratza Mastero, wondering if jumping to the virtuoso plus is going to give me any more consistency in my grind size or is it more of build quality and technology?
I just got one and I have two problems that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere else. 1 : my French roast beans won’t go down into the grinder without using a chopstick to push them down past the guard. 2 : the motor shuts off before the beans are done grinding. Could be related to problem 1.
They sent out a kick starter update last week I believe. They mentioned a end of summer time frame for the new burr. Everyone who got their ode from Kickstarter will be getting the burr for free which is awesome.
I wonder how bad the static problem is with this grinder if you apply the "Ross Droplet Technique" (a few drops/small spritz of water on the beans before grinding). Either way, no espresso setting is unfortunately a dealbreaker for me. Maybe I'll save up for the Niche Zero
Hi! This is Michael, the host of this video. I have tried this technique. It mitigates the issue, but not by a whole lot in my experience. There are still fines sticking to the bin, but they fall out with some moderate knocking.
It's also a factor of roast ... the darker the beans, the more static. For some reason, one of the bags of my "daily basic" coffee was roasted darker than usual. [Medium-dark instead of medium-light.] Until I realized it was roasted more, I was wondering why my almost static-free Encore was spraying grounds everywhere - even with the RDT. I only do pour over at home, but I like it finely ground, so no Ode for me. I'm happy with my humble reconditioned Encore.
I have had the Encore for years and my biggest complaint about it is static. Coffee sticks to the sides of the plastic bin regardless of the grind or roast. I have always thought it's because they cheaped out and don't include a plug with a ground. I'm going to have to try this method and see if it helps. In any case, I'm not spending $300 on a grinder that has this issue and apparently can't even grind enough coffee for a pot. Specs say it can grind 80 grams. If you go with a 6-ounce cup a 10 cup pot would need at least 100 grams of beans.
Who are all these people making coffee at 6AM in a post-virus world? And if I could buy a Niche for under $1000 (ebay scalper prices) I'd be right on it. Til then, this thing is looking to be at least okay, without have to mount a high-end hand grinder in the drill press.
C'mon, wirecutter! America's Test Kitchen performed blind taste test, after blind taste test, after blind taste test with coffee drinkers, including coffee "experts", and NONE of them could tell blade-ground versus burr-ground for "drip coffee'. The video is right here on youtube.
Hi, thanks for watching! ATK’s tests are interesting, but we have done many similar tests over the years and have found that people across the spectrum of coffee experience can tell the difference between blade grinder coffee and burr grinder coffee. ATK’s own conclusions are that that they still prefer burr grinders. That said, if you are happy with a blade grinder, no need to switch.
@@wirecutter ATK preferred the burr grinder for convenience. Not taste. I think they did like five blind taste tests with different people each time. They were surprised by the results. People could taste favor differences, but their "guess" as to whether they were drinking burr-ground vs blade-ground were no better than chance. I taste no difference between using my $10 electric blade grinder and my hand operated hario burr grinder...for drip coffee.
@@jimbanville hario hand grinder isn't honestly a ton better than what you can get out of a blade grinder. more expensive burr grinders give you a way better result than cheap burr grinders. obviously not everyone cares deeply about that, but to say that there's "no difference" is inaccurate
@@ryanknippel828 In the numerous blind taste tests ATK did with the best burr grinder versus the best blade grinder, no one could reliably pick which was which. The test subjects were coffee drinkers and coffee "experts". This was for drip coffee...as I stated in my original comment, not other brew types that require a certain size grind. I love scientific blind testing. It removes bias.
@@jimbanville but it wasn't scientific. they didn't release their methods or data. who are the "experts" they selected? i work in coffee and i have coworkers who are ostensible "experts" that don't have much of a coffee palate. what coffee were they using? if they're brewing with a darker roast or lower quality coffee, it's entirely possible that the uneven grind of the blade grinder produces better flavors by decreasing the total extraction. how did they dial in the grind for the burr grinder? if they're grinding too fine, it'll be bitter. too course, it'll be watery. they didn't measure the tds of their brews, or provide any evidence that they were even using the correct grind size. an incorrect burr grind can be worse than a blade grind, but experienced users know how to get the most out of a burr grinder. if you're happy with a blade grinder, then you're happy and that's that. there is, however, no "science" that proves they are as good as burr grinders for most people and most applications.
What I really really hate about Ode grinder is.. if you try to minimize mess and use a third party dosing cup, it will create even more mess and coffee particles will start flying everywhere. Why couldn't they just make a reverse funnel that fits the hole and clicks to the dosing cup so it falls directly into the cup? I made my own after got sick of cleaning each grind, and now I create literally zero mess. It should have came out that way and and how it should be!
This grinder is attractive to me because of the noise and size. I also will consider the Wilfa Uniform. I do not however need expresso and will be using it for filter, moka and chemex. Any views with this question will help. Tim
The Stanley Kubrick design and brutalist architecture jokes were spot on 😂 But seriously, I certainly think it’s one of the most aesthetically beautiful grinders out there. Even Baratza grinders which I think are some of the best on the high-end are pretty ugly IMO. Modern and minimalistic kitchens can proudly display the ODE at the very least and not worry about hiding it back in the cupboard after.
If you use James Hoffman's method of adding a little bit of water to your grounds before grinding it helps DRAMATICALLY with static. It sounds so trivial, but it makes a world of a difference.
I haven't had any issues with the Ode as far as general messiness (I slap the knocker with my palm rather than tickling it with my fingers as shown here), but the Hoffman droplet method essentially resolved all the static problems I had. And even then, the static issues weren't any worse with the Ode than the Bodum Bistro unit that preceded it.
To bo hones the ode finest setting here looks horrible. I grind finer for v60 I would say. And the uniformity seems over the place. Compared do Wilfa Uniform (which costs the same) this seems quite bad
Let us know if you have any questions about the Ode or any other coffee grinder that Wirecutter recommends!
I'm trying to determine if the komandante c40 actually delivers taste (via its uniformity of grind) that is superior to my virtuoso. And are there any upgrades or replacement burrs for the virtuoso that will deliver equal uniformity to the komandante.
From a design perspective, the Ode is sexier. I like my aesthetics.
After listening to everything you had to say, a quiet grinder wins hands down. I'll be purchasing the Ode. Thanks.
I've had one since they first shipped (it was one of those crowd sourcing products) and previously used a Baratza. I can say without a doubt, that Mocamaster coffee is far more flavorful and better balanced with this grinder than the Baratza. It excels for brewing methods using medium to course grinds. I don't live in a very dry climate, and it is less messy than the plastic hopper of the Baratza, which is more prone to static electricity. I believe Fellow is working on an alternate set of burrs with a wider grinder size range, as well as improvements for the messiness complaints, so I would say it is a good investment. If you brew espresso, you're going to be looking at an $1,800 to $3,000 grinder, so I would say just go to your favorite coffee shop for that.
What grind setting are you using for your Moccamaster?
you dont need a thousand dollar grinder for espresso lmao. you can get away with a 400 dollar lagom mini and make espresso that some say is better than the niche zero.
thank you - I'm moving temporarily and will have 3 roommates at my "new" place, and the noise of the Baraza is not something I want to subject my roommates to. This is the only review I've come across where they actually SHOW you how it sounds, and even better - directly compares it to the Baraza.
I'm a drummer. I finally found the perfect grinder. Thanks, futuristic internet man!
Do you have any plans to review Niche Zero? James Hoffmann seems to love it and I would love to hear your take on it.
It should be noted that Fellow says they are working on an updated version of the Ode that addresses some of its flaws. We don't know exactly when that will be released, but we look forward to testing when it is.
Not a huge coffee aficionado, just want to give a shout out to the Oxo grinder. Have had it for two years, using it with a french press. That combo has been making tasty coffee for us for two years, pretty hard to fault it!
Steve Jobs doing coffee grinder reviews.
HahahHa that’s what I thought
I am looking to buy a coffee grinder that can get down to espresso, not too noisy and not too big and looks sharp?? thanks Timothy
Thanks so much for this video!
Moka Pot coffee is working fine?! That's what I need to hear! It's annoying to change my espresso grinder to courser settings and loose the dialled in espresso setting.
So... Do you think this is a good addition to an espresso grinder if I go for French Press / Moka pot?
0:24 be honest, that "Morph Cut" crashed your system 3 times before it rendered properly
I have the Baratza Mastero, wondering if jumping to the virtuoso plus is going to give me any more consistency in my grind size or is it more of build quality and technology?
have been loving my ode until it stood working today! How can I make it work again?
I just got one and I have two problems that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere else.
1 : my French roast beans won’t go down into the grinder without using a chopstick to push them down past the guard.
2 : the motor shuts off before the beans are done grinding. Could be related to problem 1.
Any chance Fellow mentioned a date for the updated burr set?
I emailed them a few weeks ago and they said probably some time in 2021. No real eta though.
@@silverjackaI Thanks I also emailed them and got a "no set date" response :( Might just have to upgrade them myself with the SSP burrs.
They sent out a kick starter update last week I believe. They mentioned a end of summer time frame for the new burr. Everyone who got their ode from Kickstarter will be getting the burr for free which is awesome.
@@JT-zy2ft Thanks JT! I ended up ordering an SSP Multipurpose Red Burr Set and installed it myself. The results are... amazing.
I wonder how bad the static problem is with this grinder if you apply the "Ross Droplet Technique" (a few drops/small spritz of water on the beans before grinding). Either way, no espresso setting is unfortunately a dealbreaker for me. Maybe I'll save up for the Niche Zero
Hi! This is Michael, the host of this video. I have tried this technique. It mitigates the issue, but not by a whole lot in my experience. There are still fines sticking to the bin, but they fall out with some moderate knocking.
It's also a factor of roast ... the darker the beans, the more static.
For some reason, one of the bags of my "daily basic" coffee was roasted darker than usual. [Medium-dark instead of medium-light.] Until I realized it was roasted more, I was wondering why my almost static-free Encore was spraying grounds everywhere - even with the RDT.
I only do pour over at home, but I like it finely ground, so no Ode for me. I'm happy with my humble reconditioned Encore.
I have had the Encore for years and my biggest complaint about it is static. Coffee sticks to the sides of the plastic bin regardless of the grind or roast. I have always thought it's because they cheaped out and don't include a plug with a ground. I'm going to have to try this method and see if it helps. In any case, I'm not spending $300 on a grinder that has this issue and apparently can't even grind enough coffee for a pot. Specs say it can grind 80 grams. If you go with a 6-ounce cup a 10 cup pot would need at least 100 grams of beans.
I own this grinder. My previous grinder was the Encore. Using a spritz of water all but eliminated static on both machines for me.
If you upgrade to SSP Burrs you can grind for espresso:
prima-coffee.com/parts/ssp/643-ssp-sp
Thank you for a great review. It was very detailed, short and sweet.
Eric, Black Swan Odysessys
Who are all these people making coffee at 6AM in a post-virus world? And if I could buy a Niche for under $1000 (ebay scalper prices) I'd be right on it. Til then, this thing is looking to be at least okay, without have to mount a high-end hand grinder in the drill press.
Please lower your music by at least 6db
Can you speak up? I can’t hear you over the song
First
C'mon, wirecutter! America's Test Kitchen performed blind taste test, after blind taste test, after blind taste test with coffee drinkers, including coffee "experts", and NONE of them could tell blade-ground versus burr-ground for "drip coffee'. The video is right here on youtube.
Hi, thanks for watching! ATK’s tests are interesting, but we have done many similar tests over the years and have found that people across the spectrum of coffee experience can tell the difference between blade grinder coffee and burr grinder coffee. ATK’s own conclusions are that that they still prefer burr grinders. That said, if you are happy with a blade grinder, no need to switch.
@@wirecutter
ATK preferred the burr grinder for convenience. Not taste.
I think they did like five blind taste tests with different people each time. They were surprised by the results. People could taste favor differences, but their "guess" as to whether they were drinking burr-ground vs blade-ground were no better than chance. I taste no difference between using my $10 electric blade grinder and my hand operated hario burr grinder...for drip coffee.
@@jimbanville hario hand grinder isn't honestly a ton better than what you can get out of a blade grinder. more expensive burr grinders give you a way better result than cheap burr grinders. obviously not everyone cares deeply about that, but to say that there's "no difference" is inaccurate
@@ryanknippel828
In the numerous blind taste tests ATK did with the best burr grinder versus the best blade grinder, no one could reliably pick which was which. The test subjects were coffee drinkers and coffee "experts". This was for drip coffee...as I stated in my original comment, not other brew types that require a certain size grind. I love scientific blind testing. It removes bias.
@@jimbanville but it wasn't scientific. they didn't release their methods or data. who are the "experts" they selected? i work in coffee and i have coworkers who are ostensible "experts" that don't have much of a coffee palate. what coffee were they using? if they're brewing with a darker roast or lower quality coffee, it's entirely possible that the uneven grind of the blade grinder produces better flavors by decreasing the total extraction. how did they dial in the grind for the burr grinder? if they're grinding too fine, it'll be bitter. too course, it'll be watery. they didn't measure the tds of their brews, or provide any evidence that they were even using the correct grind size. an incorrect burr grind can be worse than a blade grind, but experienced users know how to get the most out of a burr grinder. if you're happy with a blade grinder, then you're happy and that's that. there is, however, no "science" that proves they are as good as burr grinders for most people and most applications.
What I really really hate about Ode grinder is.. if you try to minimize mess and use a third party dosing cup, it will create even more mess and coffee particles will start flying everywhere. Why couldn't they just make a reverse funnel that fits the hole and clicks to the dosing cup so it falls directly into the cup? I made my own after got sick of cleaning each grind, and now I create literally zero mess. It should have came out that way and and how it should be!
This grinder is attractive to me because of the noise and size. I also will consider the Wilfa Uniform. I do not however need expresso and will be using it for filter, moka and chemex. Any views with this question will help. Tim
espresso. not expresso.
The Stanley Kubrick design and brutalist architecture jokes were spot on 😂
But seriously, I certainly think it’s one of the most aesthetically beautiful grinders out there. Even Baratza grinders which I think are some of the best on the high-end are pretty ugly IMO. Modern and minimalistic kitchens can proudly display the ODE at the very least and not worry about hiding it back in the cupboard after.
😂 “if you like drumming on your appliances, maybe this is perfect for you”
Hilarious narrative - "if you like drumming on your appliances, this is good for you". Spot-on review!
Thank you so much
If you use James Hoffman's method of adding a little bit of water to your grounds before grinding it helps DRAMATICALLY with static. It sounds so trivial, but it makes a world of a difference.
I haven't had any issues with the Ode as far as general messiness (I slap the knocker with my palm rather than tickling it with my fingers as shown here), but the Hoffman droplet method essentially resolved all the static problems I had. And even then, the static issues weren't any worse with the Ode than the Bodum Bistro unit that preceded it.
When adding water over time, the Burrs will rust, as it is not an anti-oxidant
@@abmr999 A single droplet of water has a equivalent effect to a moderate amount of room humidity. It's not going to make a difference.
To bo hones the ode finest setting here looks horrible. I grind finer for v60 I would say. And the uniformity seems over the place. Compared do Wilfa Uniform (which costs the same) this seems quite bad
After listening to everything you had to say, a quiet grinder wins hands down. I'll be purchasing the Ode. Thanks.
What cup is that? Where can I purchase it?
thank you so much I'm looking for a grinder for expresso and was thinking of this as an option but now I know it won't grind fine enough
Best bang for buck for espresso is a really good but pretty cheap manual hand grinder.
Great review.
Great review, but the background music volume was distracting in this one