@@LanceHedrick James is pushing below the notch #3 for 1 cup V60s? For light roasts 15g 1 cup V60s with his technique, my drawdowns are ending at 4+ mins, and im grinding ~4.2-5.1 on the dial. I'm curious how long his brews are taking. Anyone else experiencing the same?
@@uclaistheillest If you don't mind me asking, what kind of filters are you using? I'm not sure what James is using, but I'd try something like the Cafec medium roast filters if you need to speed up the draw down and/or if you're having issues with fines migration... James' brews take about 3 minutes (as per the video). Edit: clarification
@@nomikos_ thank you - The tabbed Hario ones. Just had the abaca filters arrive today. Any idea what sort of time difference to expect? I'm worried its due to a more-than-gentle swirl...
"Frankly, it wasn't a good beep" 6:20 - Petition to have James review the beeps of various domestic appliances. Not even just coffee ones, I simply want to see him walk around a Currys commenting on the beep of every machine they have.
I have one. It’s my first electric coffee grinder. After buying an Aeropress for a camping trip, and then going down the rabbit hole of how to use it and finding James’ videos…, yeah now I own a coffee scale, a gooseneck kettle, an Ode gen2, and a never ending search for the next bag of delicious, single origin light roast coffee.
I'm never buying a countertop coffee grinder, but I did just upgrade to a better hand grinder. I do think I will never settle down with a specific coffee beans though, buying and testing different origins, blends,and roast types are just too fun. Most of them are pretty affordable too.
James really is the Sir David Attenborough of the coffee world, I could listen to him for hours and hours, and I do. Never did I think I'd find the subject of coffee so overwhelmingly interesting or humerous or learn so much, James, you are unique. I"m surprised however that no one seems to have knitted you a jumper and sent it in, I would but I can't knit so it would be foolish to try. Love your podcasts...
The particle size analyzer results are fascinating to me. It’s one thing to taste, but to see some objective data correlated to experience is nice. Kudos to Nick and the team 👏 and great review!
I wonder though how they do it with coffee. With soils we use a series of many sieves, but soil particles are less angular and more dense and usually dont have issues with static electricity or oils. I suspect coffee does not interact as well with sieves. So i wonder how they actually do that analysis. Would be very interesting if he did a video on one of those labs to show us how they test such things.
They are not widely seen convention and they look a bit odd. It's not easy to draw any conclusions from this. What is "% volume weight" and why are they both set in the espresso range.
I can compare to my G-iota with Italmill burrs and still wonder how the V2 burrs seem to produce more fines. While they have almost the same chirp point, I have to grind a bit coarser than with the Italmills. The coffee also tends to be a little bitter at the same brewing temperature. Perhaps they need some kilos of coffee for seasoning and will end the fines after that? At the moment I prefer the Italmills with my favorite coffee beans...
Hey James, just want to say I your reviews put you a step ahead of other reviewers because of how much your focus on the users experience rather than just talking about the products functional upgrades or specifications. You do talk about the functional upgrades, but you also mention what does this mean for the user experience. Keep up the great work!
So now, I just need to see James review the Timemore 078 and 078s. I'm very excited to see what he'll think after Lance reviewed it with quite positive notes.
@@easline404 indeed. seems like the 64mm platform is where the real competition lies for fairly obvious reasons. im curious to see what others think of the choice of motor power that timemore has gone with for the 064 and 064s.
I purchased two of these, one for home and one for our small office team. No problems with stalling on the home one, but the one the office stalls regularly. The ionizer is very effective for about a month. After that, even after cleaning, it seems to not work as well. - Thank you for a great video, as always, James.
Hi AFS music quick question as I have read this comment before about this Grinder after about the first month or two the ionizer just doesn’t work as well. Have you contacted fellow? I am wondering if they have some kind of a test that you could do to make sure your ionizer is working up to speed, I’m seriously replacing my Baratza virtuoso + with this this Grinder
Neat to see results validated with the particle analyzer data! The Gen 2 burrs were a BIG step up, and along with the ionizer moved the ODE from a grinder I needed used to recommend, to now being my go-to filter recommendation
@@williamgoodman1657 Neither ODE is capable of grinding for espresso. This is a limitation of the grinder itself, not the burrset (in the case of the Gen 2 burrs). The motor is not designed for those stresses.
@@williamgoodman1657 been grinding espresso with my ode with ssp MP v2 burrs for a bit. as long as you align your burs and hot load beans 5 ish at a time and make sure to not let the grinder turn off with beans half ground, its a very capable espresso grinder. i did a stepless mod on mine and calibrated the burs to touch at 0 to actually get enough tightness and precision to dial in espresso. if you really think about it I don't know how you would "wear out" a motor as long as it's able to spin. the ode i think is a direct drive straight from the rotor which is essentially making no contact with the stator. its not like the motor can suddenly overcharge itself and pull more power to wear its wires out it will simply stall. i have not had this issue yet because I load the coffee in little by little. the only points that would wear would be the bearings but those aren't moving any differently if you grind espresso or filter its simply balls in a track rolling around. just common sense if you know how electric motors work. if i missed something and my ode does break il just get another ode for 150 dollars and throw my SSP burrs in 350 dollars for an espresso-capable grinder that does incredibly good filter coffee is a hard deal to beat even if it's a bit finicky to deal with.
I love his reaction after that sip. He's editing the video, so it was obviously his choice to include that, but such a genuine response says a lot about the quality coming out of the grinder. At least in his estimation.
I would like to see a review of the Opus as well. Maybe against the Ode 1 and 2 in terms of filter capability. But this, and it all started with the intro, was such a good video. I liked it a lot!
This is what I use. There are a couple notes: 1. After it's finished grinding, I push the button again for two reasons: To make sure it's actually finished all the beans (very rarely a few are left in the bin), and because that allows for it to dump a little more retention. Hitting the button a couple times plus using the knocker gets out a large amount of the retention. 2. I still need to clean it with the brush on the bottom outlet occasionally. 3. I also don't like the fins on the cup. I wish they had a finless version. I use the brush to clean the cup a lot. 4. Overall it's a very solid grinder and it works very well. 5. I use mine with Moccamaster and it's almost a perfect pairing. I have found the best grind setting to be "4" for medium roasts, which is a bit strange as it's far below the recommended.
It is just such a joy to watch a reviewer that has an attention to detail. You would think most reviewers would have attention to details, but it's sadly a very rare trait! Thank you James.
That’s an intriguing move. What was your thinking behind the swap and what are the differences that you are seeing/tasting? I am guessing you are not making espresso in your daily routine?
@@mortelski5814 I sold my Flair as well. Consolidating brewing devices and prioritizing pour overs over espresso for now. The clarity of the Ode vs the Niche for pour overs is night and day. Also, I suspect that the Niche’s golden days are behind it, so I wanted to sell it while it’s still popular. Lots of new competing products popping up right now.
Ahh, OK. I guess I am brewing espresso 90% of the time. A pour-over (just basic V60) is something I like to experiment with when my wife is away. I do enjoy the results, but they are not my main focus. I have the Niche (as you must have guessed), which probably paid for itself just through lockdown, and for me to grind fine and instantly switch between coffees, it still makes sense. I admit I have not been keeping track of new grinder developments, so you would have to give me some pointers as to what you have seen coming new to the market.
@@jsublett1 do you also use this for aeropress by any chance? I'm thinking to buy this over the niche or even lagom mini. Im using it only for aeropress.
As an home barista with the filter-specific, Forte BG (for about a decade), it is nice to see the grinder industry *finally* start to pay more attention to filter-specific applications. Looking forward to seeing more competition to come!
I own the Ode 2. I have been using it for 2 months. Went from Baratza Virtuoso to the Ode 2. Retention seems to be around 0.5g and I find static inside the dosing cup frustrating. Excellent design, quiet and easy to clean. Very happy.
Looking forward to the Opus review, been eyeballing the Ode for awhile but the Opus seems like a game changer as long as you can get over the plastic build
I have an Ode 1 that I upgraded with the Gen 2 burrs and they are, indeed, fantastic. But you're right about the user experience as the little annoyances have been adding up.
Wondering about doing the same. But almost more interested in finding out if the ionizer could be retrofitted. There's coffee all over my counter RDT or no.
@@weatheranddarkness I noticed a big difference between stirring with a spoon dipped in water and using the spray bottle method James does. If you haven't tried the spray bottle I really recommend it
I started watching this channel because I fell in love with the weirdness and snobbery but I keep watching because of the insane production quality and sort of "sane" and fair content. Tack!
Before anyone gets the wrong idea from the wording of this comment and starts a war: Yes, he is snobbish; it's just a good type of snobbish. If you're paying hundreds to thousands on a coffee-making setup, you have every right to complain about even the most minor of grievances, as long as you know your place and don't view yourself as the authority on the topic. (Plus, we all know it's a bit more fun to point out the flaws, and not just go "it works, so it's good".)
Agreed! James will forever be The Pretentious Coffee Man in my brain, because that's how I described him to a friend at some point, but it's the kind of pretentious I (and most people) like. It's the kind of pretentious that is still up for anything. It's the kind of pretentious that appreciate the fine things in life without looking down at the less fine (except when the less fine are claiming to be The Finest™).
SAME. Our James is 1000x more persnickety about his coffee experience than I am, and I don't even /do/ pour-overs or espresso, but I am SO enamored with his delivery style and the breadth of elements/features/tiny fussy details that he discusses. Science AND art! With great photography!
Holy smokes. That intro. We made it halfway through the intro, started it over so the rest of the family could come in and watch. Then you received a standing ovation from the family. Thank you for that moment.
I have used the gen 1 for around 6 months now and i really like the fins in the dosing cup. it makes it easier to get the coffee into the brewer. i find it especially helpful when brewing an aeropress. i tried it a couple of times on the other side and on a few occasions i spilled a bit of the grounds because the cup is so wide. but yes, i have to do give it a little tap to get everything out but i do not mind that at all because it doesnt make a mess. but maybe i am just a bit clumsy
As a gen 1 user with an Aeropress, this was my experience as well. Yes, the Aeropress has a funnel, but I already have to clean the brewer itself. I don't want to have to fiddle with another bit of plastic. My usual routine is to tip out nearly all of the grounds from the finned side of the cup, and then turn the cup around and tap out the last few crumbs from the non-finned side. That generally works pretty well at getting all of the grounds. I weigh before and after, so I see that I'm usually losing no more than ~0.1 g of coffee overall (incl. the stuff that's still in the grinder).
@@NYKevin100 absolutely, I never use the funnel... I should probably use the funnel if I'm dealing with someone else's grinder, but I can use the glass that came with the OE Apex to get all of the grounds in every time that I'm not looking away. Distraction is a bit of a risk, sure, but even then it's generally pretty minimal mess.
On the loose cup lid. As an Ode 1 user, I do know that the tighter lid on the grounds cup is an equal annoyance there too. it often just doesn't want to go on right. So I think the low cost solution was to add some clearance. So there is no pleasing everyone.
I'm in the UK and have had my Gen 2 for a couple of weeks. I paid £314 via a pre-order deal. Loving it so far. Agree in general with James' review. It's a step up from my previous grinder and I'm still experimenting with recipe. Bearing in mind the cost of everything has gone up since the Gen 1, I'm happy with what I got for the money.
I see many people commenting on this that have far more experience with good electric grinders. So ill throw in my two cents from someone who has been using nice hand grinders for years. I am so happy with my purchase of the Ode 2. The small annoyances that you point out I only really notice now that you have highlighted them, however for someone used to hand grinders these small things are completely overshowed by my delight in how easy and intuitive this grinder is. It truly puts a smile on my face every time I use it. It makes a very pleasing sound when it grinds, the uniformity is unreal and my coffees taste profoundly better. I find myself trying new recipes daily and having fun experimenting now that I dont need to hand grind. I also love the aesthetic. It was slightly painful spending the money at first, but since the first day of using it I have completely forgot about the purchase price. Thanks for the review!
Bought an Ode 1 a couple months ago for full price, so that's cool. Anyway if your preference is for no fins in the cup, you can just tilt the cup the other way, where there are no fins.
I have the Ode 1 and use a Kalita Wave rather than the V60…so I have no issue with the offset burrs and no issue dialing in my coffee. It has been my favorite grinder and it is definitely an Upgrade from all of the Baratza grinders I have used for the past 15 years. The Ode 1 is quiet, fast, and delivers consistently good to great tasting coffee. It is “messy”. I don’t mind the “beep” and the knocker is useful (but defeats the purpose of the grinder being “quiet”. I use the other side of the cup as well. The fit on the lid of the cup is rather annoying. I really like the aesthetic and small footprint and build quality of the Ode. It is a joy to use every morning. Now if only my Bonavita electric gooseneck kettle would break…I will get the STAG kettle to match the ODE. That dang Bonavita is going on 10 years now and I can’t bring myself to throw it away. Its like a good old dog.
Been using my Ode 2 for about a month now. I've generally been very happy, but I 100% agree with your complaints about the dosing cup. I don't use the lid for it any more because it doesn't sit well, and ultimately the cup is large enough that it catches all the grinds without needing the lid to contain them. The fins are very finicky, and I normally have to either tap the cup or do a sort of twisting motion to get all the coffee out. I'd be very interested to see if a 3rd party could make a better design (as long as they keep the magnetic bottom!)
I've had my Ode 2 for nearly 2 weeks now, and I'm having a great time with it! I also ended up in the same area, grind setting wise. I haven't really had issue with the fins in the dosing cup. I just give it a little tap on the bottom, and it all comes out. All in all I'm getting much nicer cups with this against my old Encore with M2 burrs
Could you elaborate on your dialing in process and results? I feel like I've just been getting rather muddy dense astringent brews with very little clarity brewing v60 at anywhere between 50-60g / L (15/250, 15/300, 18/300, 26/400) at anywhere between 3 and 6 on the dial. The traditional process of hitting that astringent wall and then going a few clicks back hasn't really been doing much for me. Had it about a week. Love the UX though and want to love this grinder
@@Toronto_Luddite I'm usually ending up between 2 and 3 on the dial. I'm brewing light roasted coffees on a Kalita Wave 60g/L. I did find taking my water temp from 100 to about 97-98 has been beneficial. could be that your burrs just need a little seasoning yet. I really don't feel super qualified to give advice though... lol Getting used to a new grinder just takes some work, if it's not something you regularly do I think... I had my last grinder for at lest 10 years or so, so it was a big change for sure
@@dustinthiessen Thanks for the reply! I'm upgrading from the same grinder except without the M2 burrs. Are you finding that you had any moments with tons of fines building up or anything?
I had this grinder, and regardless of the ionizer, it still had a ton of static. I used the water spray method and that helped the static problems. Another issue is the hopper. It would never feed the beans completely, even at the new angles, and when spraying the beans, half the beans would be stuck in the hopper and not get to the burrs. I ended up returning it. I really wanted to love it. Hoping the V3 fixes the hopper angle or maybe they add a fine texture so the wet beans don't stick to the smooth plastic. (nothing you can do about the static)
I love James' attention to detail. Internally, it's very easy to glaze over little things like the beeping of the first Ode, because it's something you can live with, but, in truth, it is annoying; it's also an easy feature for the manufacturers to exclude, so, in just putting up with it, you're also taking away the company's ability to improve their product, bring it closer to perfection. And we should at least strive for perfection. On the surface, this nitpicking seems pointless, but, in the bigger picture, it's so important. Also, on a tangent, my oven has this dumb feature, the light only goes on along with the mechanism that spins the spit roaster, a thing that I have never used and, probably, never will use. It also makes a very annoying mechanical noise, when it spins, and there is no way to have the light on in the oven without it, because the same button activates both, at the same time. I want to formally extend an invitation to James, to come over to my place, in Bucharest, to be annoyed in person by my oven. That's all
Hats off to James for getting me to watch and enjoy a video about a grinder that can only be used for filter coffee when I hate filter coffee. Who doesn't like a grinder review that includes a particle size analysis?
To look back at the first video I've seen from you (How to French Press) and now this, I can't help but to feel the pride of a father, though I am quite a bit younger, albeit being way less sassy, to see where you are now and glad that I accompanied you along this way, I really love where this journey is going and you helped me a great deal! Thank you
Great video; your production and cinematography is always top tier. I’ve had my Ode Gen 2 for around 2 months, and I have no complaints so far. Coming from a Comandante MK3, it’s nice to have another option for grinding. I’ve gotta say thank you for all of your content in helping me discover and explore making coffee at home.
@@mullerbatista8507 I enjoy both and still use my Comandante. The Ode does have a good amount of clarity across the multiple grind settings I have used (between 4 & 6) and brew methods (V60, Hario Switch, and cupping).
when MKBHD got himself a robot arm, THIS was the kind of intro I was looking forward to when he made a big deal about what it could do. Very, very nice intro. Top notch.
Just got mine today. After doing some research I decided that this would be a good fit for me. Price dropped to $276 US so I pulled the trigger. Looking forward to doing a side by side with my $50 Amazon that I’ve been happy with so far.
I’ve had this since the end of December and it’s worked great. Just calibrated and it was simple. The fins are needed in some capacity because this is designed to work with the Stagg brewer which has a narrow opening. Using the little cleaning brush has kept the anti static gimmick doing its job well too! I’d love to see a follow up where you give recommended grind settings and compare to their suggestions.
@@amac8487 I'm at 5 currently for a medium roasted washed coffee. Been dialing up from 4 since the draw down time was a bit too long when it's lower than 5. But depends on the bean really. This is for V60, with batch brew I could go a little finer.
@@erwins5012 okay, that’s good to hear as I have been doing about the same, anywhere from 4.5-5.5 through my mocca master. I honestly have had no comparisons to go by, as this whole science is new to me. After all these years, I’m wondering why why you buy pre ground coffee it’s always so much finer? The recommended grind settings under the lid seem to be quite off, as I can’t imagine brewing at a 7…
I have been waiting for your review of this grinder! I bought the Ode 2 when it was released. I had seen a number of reviews, yours included, of the Gen 1 Ode, and that dissuaded me from buying one. The static problem might have been annoying but not a dealbreaker. But not being able to grind fine enough for a pourover? I wasn’t about to spend $300 for a grinder, only to have to swap out the burrs. So when the Ode 2 was released, I jumped on it. The first one that I received early last November did not work; turns out the motor was installed backwards. So I returned it and Fellow sent me a replacement, which worked fine. I’ve been using it daily since then (well, now and then I use my hand grinder), and I love it. There is no discernible retention- like a nerd, I’ve weighed the ground coffee that comes out every time and it always equals the weight of the beans going in. There is no issue with static at all. RDT was a necessity with my old grinder, but I stopped doing it with the Ode. But most importantly, I’m able to get a perfect grind for pourovers. For grinding 15-20 g light/medium roast coffee for a V60, I’ve found that right on 4 or one click beyond is the sweet spot. I notice that James was grinding finer. I’m doing pourovers that taste wonderful with clarity, complexity, and sweetness. I think I may have been disappointed with the original Ode, but the Ode 2 was money well spent.
I bought this. I’ve had it for several months now, and I agree completely with every single thing said in this review. Same experience with the dosing cup, same slight cringe about the price, same tasty coffee and even independently arrived at the same grind size for light roasted specialty coffee. I’m very glad I bought it. This is my first electric grinder and I’m comparing it with the Timemore T2 hand grinder (IRRC the model name).
Been enjoying this grinder for about 3 months now with 1-2 cups a day. Coffees from roasters like The Barn, Standout and even more developed ones like the one I work with all have great clarity. Price wise I agree to a certain extent, however I will only really go as far as one filter grinder and one electric kettle. We decided to spend this much because I didn’t want an espresso machine. Most of my money goes towards roasted coffee and brewers. I will say, after watching this review and looking at the price, SSP Burrs might not be necessary. (Pro Tip: ask your shop owner to break even on a wholesale priced Ode 2. You might actually get one 😉)
The thing about the 2 being at the ~$350 range is that puts it squarely in the "it might be reasonable to spend more to get a higher quality grinder that can also do espresso" range. I suppose the latter point really doesn't matter if you don't do home espresso, but I think the former stands.
It also puts the Ode 2 in a weird place in the lineup. Here we have a grinder that's going to be almost $400 after tax/shipping that can only do filter. But then we also have the opus which can do filter and espresso for just over $200 I think it would have made more sense to make the opus with premium materials and charge $399, have this be $299, and the Ode Gen 1 for $199. That would be a clear progression.
@@Kiaulen Probably market segmentation. The people who'd pay nearly 300$ for a filter-only grinder are quite distinct from those who are looking for a 200$ all-purpose grinder. If you're willing to spend that kind of money on your grinder, your espresso setup is most likely pushing 4 digits and you have a separate grinder for that. That's also a completely different market segment to compete in; for a Lelit Mara X setups or even more expensive, they'd compete with Eureka Mignons and the likes, where 100$ extra are not that much of an issue. 200$ grinders are instead paired with the cheaper end of thermoblocks, where the complete coffee setup is probably less expensive than the espresso grinder of the former.
I got this grinder with the updated burrs last December. Within a week it started jamming. Cleaning and re-calibrating didn't do anything. It was like the outfeed is too small for the quantity going through and the trip on the motor was too sensitive. They ultimately replaced it and I got my replacement in mid-January as they were backordered. I haven't had the stalling issue, but one thing it can do is get beans stuck in the infeed into the burrs. The hole is small enough that if beans fall in right from multiple sides at the same time, they'll jam in there. You have to either shake it of shove more beans in there with your finger to pop them loose. Now, I am very happy with the finished product and it fit the area I wanted it to perfectly which was one of the reasons I got it. I am a little less thrilled by it overall because of these issues considering the cost, which especially with the upgraded burrs, isn't particularly cheap for a non-espresso grinder. Their customer support is very responsive and willing to work with you, which is a big plus and I appreciate with any company. Quick note on the ring that was mentioned, it's a small annoyance but I feel the real issue isn't that it's loose, but rather that it's soft rubber and will often seat crooked and require you to pop it out and set it down again. Functionally it's irrelevant, but if you're anal about things being straight it's annoying. Another very good video with some impressive cinematography.
I bought the Gen 2, in part based on your prior review of Fellow and doing some research into other grinders. I prefer drip so espresso grinds were not an issue. While looking at the prices for quality grinders I didn't think the price was outrageous or necessarily bad, plus I wanted something that will do a great job and *last*. As a techie, the ionizer did pique my interest and, basically, sealed the deal when splitting hairs of what to get. Having used it daily, two or three times a day for a month, I have no big complaints. I do grind into the cup without the lid because...well...why even have it? I agree, it's the cup that is the one thing that could be tweaked a little better: make the cup taller, the lid snugger & the opening bigger (for those that need a tidy-looking lid), and remove the internal fins. I don't use those fins at all. Maybe put a corner in the cup body, so if you were to look down on the cup it would look like a raindrop. I don't have refined taste buds; they are rather blunt so I'm at the left end of the bell curve for tasting minutia (it sucks). So reviews of how well a grinder works, how consistent the grinds are, how simple/easy it is to use, and how it ultimately provides a flavorful cup o' joe are helpful for me when deciding what I should look for. But what this grinder does do for me is 1) provide a known very good grind for drip coffee and, most importantly, 2) allows me to finally grind my own beans! While I don't think the price is too high, I can rationalize the cost of the grinder by the markedly improved freshness and flavor I get for my coffee, knowing that the grinder will last and that I'll be able to get new burrs if necessary.
you are my doppelgänger. V60 / Clever Pot / Chemex / AeroPress. Buy quality that lasts. Geeking out on the playing with RDT, because....science. I can identify with James' niggles about AUX but also find them hilarious and no where in the realm of deal breakers.
Got mine here in the UK from “Coffee Hit” for £375 as an upgrade on my ceramic hand grinder last week and as you can imagine it’s been a massive upgrade. Been having a lot of fun playing around with grind size and getting to know the flavours of coffee that much better. No issues with static (not doing water trick) or retention that is noticeable. Would agree on the pouring “fins” not being great, typically do a twist a few times to get everything out but that would be my only complaint. Obviously not cheap but feels like a premium experience to use and love the look of it on my table top, so £375 feels like getting value out of it, especially as I have no plans for espresso any time soon. Would be interested in what other options at this price are being hinted to at the end of the video here? Was turned off by the wilfa uniform due to the really long grind times
We got very lucky in that we had one of the Ode 1s, and it broke while just barely still under warranty, and when we put in a support ticket they just sent us an Ode 2 to replace it. How cool is that? They earned some loyalty there, for sure. We love it, we've had no issues with our preferred light to medium roasts. We immediately noticed the static issue being more or less resolved and we no longer mist our beans when we put them through. Part of me has always had a (probably unfounded) concern that even a little moisture might gum up the works in there over time in a way that dry beans wouldn't. The static issue was just so bad that it was causing worse issues, so we had to. The increased hopper size is great. I know you don't like cold brew but it's a staple for us. We also do v60 whenever we have time, but being able to grab a delicious cup from the fridge with just a kettle of water is great, and the hopper size (and grind cup size) makes it a lot less obnoxious to do large batches of beans. Speaking of the cup size, combined with the static issue being resolved, we don't really use the plastic lid anymore. With the Ode 1, if you didn't have the lid on, grinds would go *everywhere* because of the smaller cup size and the static. With the Ode 2 that's just not a concern. You get a little bit coming out here and there but not so much that you feel like you have to clean up every single time you use it. The improved burrs go without saying. Great improvement. Overall very impressed.
We got ours during Christmas sales with a 2 as the first number. :) It's our very first big kid grinder but I like that it doesn't make a mess, two months later and there is still no grind dust on the counter. We grind around a 4/5 for the v60 because light roasts are hard to come by here. Worth the money for us!
Really looking forward to your review of the opus in the future! I am very wary of buying a grjnder from fellow after they released a grinder that couldn’t grind fine enough for the way in which 99% of their users were going to brew coffee, then sold them expensive burrs to fix the problem they released their grinder with!
99%? That's a hefty conjecture. According to the NCA, espresso made up only 11% of home coffee methods in 2022. Anecdotally, I know three people and two coffee shops who use Odes exclusively for pour overs. (edit - I should note that I'm also quite curious to see what he thinks about the Opus! And I'm not here to defend Fellow - I just thought the 99% was a bit strong)
I've used both a gen 1 and a gen 2 now, and I definitely agree that it was a huge improvement. I used to have massive static issues which seem almost completely resolved by the ionizer. Also, I had a hard time grinding darker roasts with the gen 1 which doesn't seem like as much of a problem with the gen 2? I'm not sure if the feeding chute was changed other than the angle of the hopper ramp, but it no longer seems to jam at finer grinds. Could have been a static/retention issue too, but who knows, it's fixed!
Great video, now super interested in a review of their new grinder that-while having conical burrs-grinds for espresso and pour over. Might get it to have an all-in-one.
The close-up of the RDT really made it click for me and I could tell there was a huge difference on the Ode 1, however the Ode 2 was hardly noticeable (for me, a simpel consumer). It seems those ionising openings really does quite well.
I switched to another video at the last 30sec or so, but I simply couldn't finish the video without hearing you wish me a great day so I came back for that bit. Not disappointed.
The early comments seem like a lot people watched this video for the production quality over a new grinder review/comparison. That blows my mind because the actual information James puts out is way more interesting then how he films/edits.
Got a Ode 1 with the V2 burrs a few weeks before this was announced, and don't really regret my decision. Found a discount even steeper than what Fellow was offering it for, and adding on the V2 burrs have made it a very complete grinder to me.
Firstly I want say great video, and very helpful and deciding on a grinder. But I also wanted to say it would be great to see you revisit the Wilfa Uniform and see how it stacks up today against some of the newer filter focused grinders and any tips on potential upgrades one can make or the wilfa can make.
It would. I loved the idea and the look of the Ode (1) but was put off by the reviews - more the mess than the lack of fineness - and the feeling that Fellow were making their customers do their testing for them. Then the 2 was trailed but took for ever to appear (and still hasn't in the UK) and I got tired of waiting and bought a Uniform instead. That, in the unpainted metal finish, is giving pleasing results and no mess at all, so I won't be changing it. But it does seem like the closest rival to the 2, for European buyers anyway, so it would be interesting to see the two compared.
@@clivew772 absolutely, I tried the Ode on v60s on a couple occasions with different brewing techniques and it didn't seem to offer much in the way of clarity, bearing in I'm comparing it to my daily experience with the uniform. Obviously that's preference, some prefer clarity other favor sweetness. But I totally agree, unless I'm missing something, it's defo the closest rival.
I like that James highlighted the price difference. While the face US price might not be that big (299 vs 345 usd), in Europe the gen 2 is to be sold for around 450 eur, whereas the gen 1 can be easily found for less than 290 eur. Massive change in price - clearly, there is nothing in gen 2 to justify the 50% price increase.
I was considering a set of SSP burrs for my Ode 1, but I think I may now go with the gen 2 burrs instead. The static isn't too bad, in my opinion, and it is pretty easy to negate with a touch of water. Seeing as I got my Ode for $225, an $80 burr set seems like a wonderful upgrade. I was considering the Ode 2, but I didn't feel the price was justifiable. I would love to see your take on the Opus - is it a Jack-of-all-trades master-of-none, or does it really do a pretty good job? Maybe a comparison between the Ode and Opus at similar grind sizes...
What about a review of the new Fellow Opus conical burr grinder? Love your reviews. You always put a lot of thought into your approach to testing products and coffee. Keep up the good work.
Purchased the Ode2 a while back after watching other reviews. While I agree with everything you've said, I'm glad I made the purchase and I think I'm getting a good value for money; All that you need to do is the math. As with any $$$purchase, you need to ask yourself: How much do you spend at your local coffee shop? What kind of coffee do you like to drink? Etc. I did mine, and I found that the machine would pay for itself in way less than 100 cups, which is perfect because I plan on having it for at least a few years. Thank you, James for another great review.
I've been using an Ode 2 for about a month and I've been really enjoying it. I am very glad you commented on the weird fit between the dossing cup and its lid. It really bothered me when I first put it on. It just felt cheap considering the price of the grinder. For the fins I found doing a bit of a twist at the end gets all the coffee out, but I think if the angle was a bit steeper it might be less of an issue. Overall I've been loving the coffee I make using this grinder and the user experience has been great.
I agree with the comments you made about the dosing cup, lid and fins completely! Mine did jam once which was odd as I always start the grinder and then pour in beans. I got scared but I was able to free it up easily and move on. I have noticed that after a few weeks of daily use1-2x/day, the ionizer needs a thorough brushing off or it stops working well.
James, I'd love to see a video on Portuguese Espresso (BICA) and why it tastes so unique (and indeed why it transforms into a silky dark chocolate tasting syrup with 2-3 brown sugars stirred in where that really doesn't seem to work anywhere near as well with most espresso (this was consistent across every espresso I had in Lisbon)
I'm glad you mentioned the bit about the lid on the catch bin of the Ode. It just seems entirely unnecessary to me. I used it about 3 or 4 times before I ultimately threw it in an adjacent drawer to be forgotten.
I don't need this kind of grinder but I do like how it tackles two of the (related) issues I have with my Niche Zero. One is the deioniser - without a spritz, my white Niche is absolutely covered in ground coffee. The second is the angle of the hopper - given that I need to spritz, the incidence of a bean or two sticking is very high. Kudos to Fellow, this looks great.
2 things: 1) I have the original Ode (KS backer). I was disappointed with limitations of finer grinding. I waited, like everyone else, for them to fix the burrs and catch cup. I waited, and waited, and waited. I was very tired of waiting. I watched Lance Hedrick's video on the SSP and stepless MOD. I caved. Got the SSP burrs and did stepless MOD. Very happy with it now. Eventually got the V2 burrs. They are still in the box. Fellow NEVER did fix the catch cup. If I were to buy today, I'd just buy the Ode 2 with stock V2 burrs. 2) James - you gave SOOOO much quality material here for the next Hames Joffman video. Very much looking forward to that!
Robot shot intro 😍
I’m curious if MKBHD is a coffee nerd
A Collab I didn't know we needed??
Thanks! I now completely understand why you got one! The possibilities are endless but I also get how you’re careful not to overuse
I need this crossover!
game recognize game
Fantastic review! Thanks for the shoutout. I was quite excited to work on these burrs and am happy you enjoy them!
You and the team slayed on those burrs, great work.
@@error.418 thank you! Appreciate it! Glad you enjoy them
@@LanceHedrick James is pushing below the notch #3 for 1 cup V60s? For light roasts 15g 1 cup V60s with his technique, my drawdowns are ending at 4+ mins, and im grinding ~4.2-5.1 on the dial. I'm curious how long his brews are taking. Anyone else experiencing the same?
@@uclaistheillest If you don't mind me asking, what kind of filters are you using? I'm not sure what James is using, but I'd try something like the Cafec medium roast filters if you need to speed up the draw down and/or if you're having issues with fines migration...
James' brews take about 3 minutes (as per the video).
Edit: clarification
@@nomikos_ thank you - The tabbed Hario ones. Just had the abaca filters arrive today. Any idea what sort of time difference to expect? I'm worried its due to a more-than-gentle swirl...
"Frankly, it wasn't a good beep" 6:20 - Petition to have James review the beeps of various domestic appliances. Not even just coffee ones, I simply want to see him walk around a Currys commenting on the beep of every machine they have.
YES! 😁
That would make a perfect collab with Technology Connections :D
I would love to have a library of James Hoffman approved beep sounds
@@lonestarr1490 Or John Siracusa, who had a series of toaster oven reviews with many comments on 'knob feel'.
Oh yes! With categories on which appliances they can be used with!
I have one. It’s my first electric coffee grinder. After buying an Aeropress for a camping trip, and then going down the rabbit hole of how to use it and finding James’ videos…, yeah now I own a coffee scale, a gooseneck kettle, an Ode gen2, and a never ending search for the next bag of delicious, single origin light roast coffee.
I’m currently in that very hole. I’m already £500 down and this grinder is the next purchase 😢
I'm never buying a countertop coffee grinder, but I did just upgrade to a better hand grinder. I do think I will never settle down with a specific coffee beans though, buying and testing different origins, blends,and roast types are just too fun. Most of them are pretty affordable too.
The Cinematography of the intro is just pure art!
Looks like apple commercial lol. Its insane
Probably inspired by MKBHD intros
Definitely inspired by MKBHD. Had the chance to try a camera robot and couldn't pass up that opportunity
@@jameshoffmann waiting for a collab
@@jameshoffmann I knew it was that camera robot!
James really is the Sir David Attenborough of the coffee world, I could listen to him for hours and hours, and I do. Never did I think I'd find the subject of coffee so overwhelmingly interesting or humerous or learn so much, James, you are unique. I"m surprised however that no one seems to have knitted you a jumper and sent it in, I would but I can't knit so it would be foolish to try. Love your podcasts...
The particle size analyzer results are fascinating to me. It’s one thing to taste, but to see some objective data correlated to experience is nice. Kudos to Nick and the team 👏 and great review!
I wonder though how they do it with coffee. With soils we use a series of many sieves, but soil particles are less angular and more dense and usually dont have issues with static electricity or oils. I suspect coffee does not interact as well with sieves. So i wonder how they actually do that analysis. Would be very interesting if he did a video on one of those labs to show us how they test such things.
They are not widely seen convention and they look a bit odd. It's not easy to draw any conclusions from this. What is "% volume weight" and why are they both set in the espresso range.
They use laser analysis
Would love to see more particle size analysis comparing different 64mm burr sets in the Ode gen 2!
I can compare to my G-iota with Italmill burrs and still wonder how the V2 burrs seem to produce more fines. While they have almost the same chirp point, I have to grind a bit coarser than with the Italmills. The coffee also tends to be a little bitter at the same brewing temperature. Perhaps they need some kilos of coffee for seasoning and will end the fines after that? At the moment I prefer the Italmills with my favorite coffee beans...
Hey James, just want to say I your reviews put you a step ahead of other reviewers because of how much your focus on the users experience rather than just talking about the products functional upgrades or specifications. You do talk about the functional upgrades, but you also mention what does this mean for the user experience.
Keep up the great work!
100% -- personally I would totally take a design-thinking course taught by Mr. Hoffman, as long as coffee was somehow involved, of course ;)
So now, I just need to see James review the Timemore 078 and 078s. I'm very excited to see what he'll think after Lance reviewed it with quite positive notes.
I would really like to know how the Sculptor 64 performs against the Ode v2, but I suppose that I have to wait for such a video quite some time :/
@@easline404 indeed. seems like the 64mm platform is where the real competition lies for fairly obvious reasons. im curious to see what others think of the choice of motor power that timemore has gone with for the 064 and 064s.
I purchased two of these, one for home and one for our small office team. No problems with stalling on the home one, but the one the office stalls regularly. The ionizer is very effective for about a month. After that, even after cleaning, it seems to not work as well. - Thank you for a great video, as always, James.
Hi AFS music quick question as I have read this comment before about this Grinder after about the first month or two the ionizer just doesn’t work as well. Have you contacted fellow? I am wondering if they have some kind of a test that you could do to make sure your ionizer is working up to speed, I’m seriously replacing my Baratza virtuoso + with this this Grinder
Neat to see results validated with the particle analyzer data!
The Gen 2 burrs were a BIG step up, and along with the ionizer moved the ODE from a grinder I needed used to recommend, to now being my go-to filter recommendation
Have you tried to espresso grinding with the Gen 2 Burrs on the og Ode? If so, what setting do you use?
@@williamgoodman1657 Neither ODE is capable of grinding for espresso. This is a limitation of the grinder itself, not the burrset (in the case of the Gen 2 burrs). The motor is not designed for those stresses.
@@williamgoodman1657 been grinding espresso with my ode with ssp MP v2 burrs for a bit. as long as you align your burs and hot load beans 5 ish at a time and make sure to not let the grinder turn off with beans half ground, its a very capable espresso grinder. i did a stepless mod on mine and calibrated the burs to touch at 0 to actually get enough tightness and precision to dial in espresso. if you really think about it I don't know how you would "wear out" a motor as long as it's able to spin. the ode i think is a direct drive straight from the rotor which is essentially making no contact with the stator. its not like the motor can suddenly overcharge itself and pull more power to wear its wires out it will simply stall. i have not had this issue yet because I load the coffee in little by little. the only points that would wear would be the bearings but those aren't moving any differently if you grind espresso or filter its simply balls in a track rolling around. just common sense if you know how electric motors work. if i missed something and my ode does break il just get another ode for 150 dollars and throw my SSP burrs in 350 dollars for an espresso-capable grinder that does incredibly good filter coffee is a hard deal to beat even if it's a bit finicky to deal with.
I love his reaction after that sip. He's editing the video, so it was obviously his choice to include that, but such a genuine response says a lot about the quality coming out of the grinder. At least in his estimation.
I would like to see a review of the Opus as well. Maybe against the Ode 1 and 2 in terms of filter capability. But this, and it all started with the intro, was such a good video. I liked it a lot!
he's probably waiting for the UK release to actually do that, aka about... mid this year
@@taistealai5523 thanks for that. Didn't know that :)
This is what I use. There are a couple notes:
1. After it's finished grinding, I push the button again for two reasons: To make sure it's actually finished all the beans (very rarely a few are left in the bin), and because that allows for it to dump a little more retention. Hitting the button a couple times plus using the knocker gets out a large amount of the retention.
2. I still need to clean it with the brush on the bottom outlet occasionally.
3. I also don't like the fins on the cup. I wish they had a finless version. I use the brush to clean the cup a lot.
4. Overall it's a very solid grinder and it works very well.
5. I use mine with Moccamaster and it's almost a perfect pairing. I have found the best grind setting to be "4" for medium roasts, which is a bit strange as it's far below the recommended.
It is just such a joy to watch a reviewer that has an attention to detail. You would think most reviewers would have attention to details, but it's sadly a very rare trait! Thank you James.
Recently sold my used Niche Zero, bought the Fellow Gen 2 with SSP burrs, kept the change, and I haven’t regretted it for a second.
That’s an intriguing move. What was your thinking behind the swap and what are the differences that you are seeing/tasting?
I am guessing you are not making espresso in your daily routine?
@@mortelski5814 I sold my Flair as well. Consolidating brewing devices and prioritizing pour overs over espresso for now. The clarity of the Ode vs the Niche for pour overs is night and day.
Also, I suspect that the Niche’s golden days are behind it, so I wanted to sell it while it’s still popular. Lots of new competing products popping up right now.
Ahh, OK. I guess I am brewing espresso 90% of the time. A pour-over (just basic V60) is something I like to experiment with when my wife is away. I do enjoy the results, but they are not my main focus. I have the Niche (as you must have guessed), which probably paid for itself just through lockdown, and for me to grind fine and instantly switch between coffees, it still makes sense. I admit I have not been keeping track of new grinder developments, so you would have to give me some pointers as to what you have seen coming new to the market.
@@jsublett1 do you also use this for aeropress by any chance? I'm thinking to buy this over the niche or even lagom mini. Im using it only for aeropress.
As an home barista with the filter-specific, Forte BG (for about a decade), it is nice to see the grinder industry *finally* start to pay more attention to filter-specific applications. Looking forward to seeing more competition to come!
I own the Ode 2. I have been using it for 2 months. Went from Baratza Virtuoso to the Ode 2. Retention seems to be around 0.5g and I find static inside the dosing cup frustrating.
Excellent design, quiet and easy to clean. Very happy.
Looking forward to the Opus review, been eyeballing the Ode for awhile but the Opus seems like a game changer as long as you can get over the plastic build
A coffee grinder review intro has no business being this cinematographically intense.
I have an Ode 1 that I upgraded with the Gen 2 burrs and they are, indeed, fantastic. But you're right about the user experience as the little annoyances have been adding up.
Wondering about doing the same. But almost more interested in finding out if the ionizer could be retrofitted. There's coffee all over my counter RDT or no.
@@weatheranddarkness I noticed a big difference between stirring with a spoon dipped in water and using the spray bottle method James does. If you haven't tried the spray bottle I really recommend it
I been trying to find a cheaper machine to throw the old set in... seem such a waste for an great set for cold brew to go to waste
James is back at the studio! Happy to see this old style reviews back again
I started watching this channel because I fell in love with the weirdness and snobbery but I keep watching because of the insane production quality and sort of "sane" and fair content.
Tack!
Before anyone gets the wrong idea from the wording of this comment and starts a war: Yes, he is snobbish; it's just a good type of snobbish. If you're paying hundreds to thousands on a coffee-making setup, you have every right to complain about even the most minor of grievances, as long as you know your place and don't view yourself as the authority on the topic.
(Plus, we all know it's a bit more fun to point out the flaws, and not just go "it works, so it's good".)
Agreed! James will forever be The Pretentious Coffee Man in my brain, because that's how I described him to a friend at some point, but it's the kind of pretentious I (and most people) like. It's the kind of pretentious that is still up for anything. It's the kind of pretentious that appreciate the fine things in life without looking down at the less fine (except when the less fine are claiming to be The Finest™).
SAME. Our James is 1000x more persnickety about his coffee experience than I am, and I don't even /do/ pour-overs or espresso, but I am SO enamored with his delivery style and the breadth of elements/features/tiny fussy details that he discusses. Science AND art! With great photography!
Holy smokes. That intro. We made it halfway through the intro, started it over so the rest of the family could come in and watch. Then you received a standing ovation from the family.
Thank you for that moment.
I have used the gen 1 for around 6 months now and i really like the fins in the dosing cup. it makes it easier to get the coffee into the brewer. i find it especially helpful when brewing an aeropress. i tried it a couple of times on the other side and on a few occasions i spilled a bit of the grounds because the cup is so wide. but yes, i have to do give it a little tap to get everything out but i do not mind that at all because it doesnt make a mess. but maybe i am just a bit clumsy
As a gen 1 user with an Aeropress, this was my experience as well.
Yes, the Aeropress has a funnel, but I already have to clean the brewer itself. I don't want to have to fiddle with another bit of plastic. My usual routine is to tip out nearly all of the grounds from the finned side of the cup, and then turn the cup around and tap out the last few crumbs from the non-finned side. That generally works pretty well at getting all of the grounds. I weigh before and after, so I see that I'm usually losing no more than ~0.1 g of coffee overall (incl. the stuff that's still in the grinder).
Oh that’s interesting, thanks for sharing that.
I prefer square cups, like the wifa uniform, and you can use the corner.
@@NYKevin100 absolutely, I never use the funnel... I should probably use the funnel if I'm dealing with someone else's grinder, but I can use the glass that came with the OE Apex to get all of the grounds in every time that I'm not looking away. Distraction is a bit of a risk, sure, but even then it's generally pretty minimal mess.
“It just irks me and I don’t want to be irked” story of my life
That sweet motion control intro 👌🎥
Duuuuuuuuude whoooooaaaaaa
Mkbhd of coffee accessories 🙂🙂
Never have I wanted a thing more that I absolutely do not need (and will never be able to afford!)
@@jameshoffmann I can relate to that…. Ironically in reverse usually watching the lovely coffee equipment!
On the loose cup lid. As an Ode 1 user, I do know that the tighter lid on the grounds cup is an equal annoyance there too. it often just doesn't want to go on right. So I think the low cost solution was to add some clearance. So there is no pleasing everyone.
Except the accountants, of course
I'm in the UK and have had my Gen 2 for a couple of weeks. I paid £314 via a pre-order deal. Loving it so far. Agree in general with James' review. It's a step up from my previous grinder and I'm still experimenting with recipe. Bearing in mind the cost of everything has gone up since the Gen 1, I'm happy with what I got for the money.
Where did you order it from please? Does the US site offer 210v option??
I see many people commenting on this that have far more experience with good electric grinders. So ill throw in my two cents from someone who has been using nice hand grinders for years. I am so happy with my purchase of the Ode 2. The small annoyances that you point out I only really notice now that you have highlighted them, however for someone used to hand grinders these small things are completely overshowed by my delight in how easy and intuitive this grinder is. It truly puts a smile on my face every time I use it. It makes a very pleasing sound when it grinds, the uniformity is unreal and my coffees taste profoundly better. I find myself trying new recipes daily and having fun experimenting now that I dont need to hand grind. I also love the aesthetic. It was slightly painful spending the money at first, but since the first day of using it I have completely forgot about the purchase price. Thanks for the review!
I still prefer my hand grinder, tbh. The clarity from my 1ZPresso ZP6 is just perfect.
DUDE THAT OPENING IS SO GREAT! we honestly need a breakdown of it.
Camera robot :)
Bought an Ode 1 a couple months ago for full price, so that's cool.
Anyway if your preference is for no fins in the cup, you can just tilt the cup the other way, where there are no fins.
I have the Ode 1 and use a Kalita Wave rather than the V60…so I have no issue with the offset burrs and no issue dialing in my coffee. It has been my favorite grinder and it is definitely an Upgrade from all of the Baratza grinders I have used for the past 15 years. The Ode 1 is quiet, fast, and delivers consistently good to great tasting coffee. It is “messy”. I don’t mind the “beep” and the knocker is useful (but defeats the purpose of the grinder being “quiet”. I use the other side of the cup as well. The fit on the lid of the cup is rather annoying. I really like the aesthetic and small footprint and build quality of the Ode. It is a joy to use every morning. Now if only my Bonavita electric gooseneck kettle would break…I will get the STAG kettle to match the ODE. That dang Bonavita is going on 10 years now and I can’t bring myself to throw it away. Its like a good old dog.
Been using my Ode 2 for about a month now. I've generally been very happy, but I 100% agree with your complaints about the dosing cup.
I don't use the lid for it any more because it doesn't sit well, and ultimately the cup is large enough that it catches all the grinds without needing the lid to contain them. The fins are very finicky, and I normally have to either tap the cup or do a sort of twisting motion to get all the coffee out.
I'd be very interested to see if a 3rd party could make a better design (as long as they keep the magnetic bottom!)
I've had my Ode 2 for nearly 2 weeks now, and I'm having a great time with it! I also ended up in the same area, grind setting wise. I haven't really had issue with the fins in the dosing cup. I just give it a little tap on the bottom, and it all comes out. All in all I'm getting much nicer cups with this against my old Encore with M2 burrs
Could you elaborate on your dialing in process and results? I feel like I've just been getting rather muddy dense astringent brews with very little clarity brewing v60 at anywhere between 50-60g / L (15/250, 15/300, 18/300, 26/400) at anywhere between 3 and 6 on the dial. The traditional process of hitting that astringent wall and then going a few clicks back hasn't really been doing much for me. Had it about a week. Love the UX though and want to love this grinder
@@Toronto_Luddite I'm usually ending up between 2 and 3 on the dial. I'm brewing light roasted coffees on a Kalita Wave 60g/L. I did find taking my water temp from 100 to about 97-98 has been beneficial. could be that your burrs just need a little seasoning yet.
I really don't feel super qualified to give advice though... lol Getting used to a new grinder just takes some work, if it's not something you regularly do I think... I had my last grinder for at lest 10 years or so, so it was a big change for sure
@@dustinthiessen Thanks for the reply! I'm upgrading from the same grinder except without the M2 burrs. Are you finding that you had any moments with tons of fines building up or anything?
Re the fins: I just gently shake the cup side to side as I’m pouring. Works swell!
i could never imagine designing a coffee product and not sending a prototype to james
he prolly didn’t accept it so he can just buy it himself, to minimize bias
@@keithjohn1650 I think he meant in order to get feedback and make final changes to the device.
not if there’s a conflict of interest where he’s working on a competing project
@@DoozyyTV For feedback I’d even pay a fair fee for his time. Getting systematic and thoughtful UX info is hard.
From what I understand James' full time job is actually testing out coffee equipment
Currently on sale for $293 for labor day. Pulling the trigger on it now! Thanks James!
Jesus this intro... I love when James shows his video making skills! Nicely done
I had this grinder, and regardless of the ionizer, it still had a ton of static. I used the water spray method and that helped the static problems. Another issue is the hopper. It would never feed the beans completely, even at the new angles, and when spraying the beans, half the beans would be stuck in the hopper and not get to the burrs. I ended up returning it. I really wanted to love it. Hoping the V3 fixes the hopper angle or maybe they add a fine texture so the wet beans don't stick to the smooth plastic. (nothing you can do about the static)
I love James' attention to detail. Internally, it's very easy to glaze over little things like the beeping of the first Ode, because it's something you can live with, but, in truth, it is annoying; it's also an easy feature for the manufacturers to exclude, so, in just putting up with it, you're also taking away the company's ability to improve their product, bring it closer to perfection. And we should at least strive for perfection. On the surface, this nitpicking seems pointless, but, in the bigger picture, it's so important. Also, on a tangent, my oven has this dumb feature, the light only goes on along with the mechanism that spins the spit roaster, a thing that I have never used and, probably, never will use. It also makes a very annoying mechanical noise, when it spins, and there is no way to have the light on in the oven without it, because the same button activates both, at the same time. I want to formally extend an invitation to James, to come over to my place, in Bucharest, to be annoyed in person by my oven. That's all
Hats off to James for getting me to watch and enjoy a video about a grinder that can only be used for filter coffee when I hate filter coffee. Who doesn't like a grinder review that includes a particle size analysis?
That opening title shot. My goodness! Full marks for creativity and execution of it, because that can’t have been trivial to produce.
To look back at the first video I've seen from you (How to French Press) and now this, I can't help but to feel the pride of a father, though I am quite a bit younger, albeit being way less sassy, to see where you are now and glad that I accompanied you along this way, I really love where this journey is going and you helped me a great deal! Thank you
The Fellow Ode 2 looks brilliant in this. Somehow it has that cinematic vibe to it that draws you in instantly.
amogus
@@usedcolouringbook8798 Sus
wat
Tras
Great video; your production and cinematography is always top tier. I’ve had my Ode Gen 2 for around 2 months, and I have no complaints so far. Coming from a Comandante MK3, it’s nice to have another option for grinding. I’ve gotta say thank you for all of your content in helping me discover and explore making coffee at home.
How do your cups compare? I also have a Comandante and wanted to know if the Ode would be an upgrade.
@@mullerbatista8507 I enjoy both and still use my Comandante. The Ode does have a good amount of clarity across the multiple grind settings I have used (between 4 & 6) and brew methods (V60, Hario Switch, and cupping).
when MKBHD got himself a robot arm, THIS was the kind of intro I was looking forward to when he made a big deal about what it could do. Very, very nice intro. Top notch.
Just got mine today. After doing some research I decided that this would be a good fit for me. Price dropped to $276 US so I pulled the trigger. Looking forward to doing a side by side with my $50 Amazon that I’ve been happy with so far.
When you watch James Hoffmann religiously even though you don't drink coffee, you know he's just that good
lol. That’s funny as hell
Yes! The weird-fitting lid on the cup is my main (maybe only?) complaint about my Ode 2.
Same..: and it’s not really even a complaint , just an inference I guess lol
I’ve had this since the end of December and it’s worked great. Just calibrated and it was simple. The fins are needed in some capacity because this is designed to work with the Stagg brewer which has a narrow opening. Using the little cleaning brush has kept the anti static gimmick doing its job well too!
I’d love to see a follow up where you give recommended grind settings and compare to their suggestions.
Yes that would be great, although trial and error is much fun too 😉
Do you have a gen 2? What setting are you typically using for your pour overs and/or drip machine?
@@amac8487 I'm at 5 currently for a medium roasted washed coffee. Been dialing up from 4 since the draw down time was a bit too long when it's lower than 5. But depends on the bean really. This is for V60, with batch brew I could go a little finer.
@@erwins5012 okay, that’s good to hear as I have been doing about the same, anywhere from 4.5-5.5 through my mocca master. I honestly have had no comparisons to go by, as this whole science is new to me. After all these years, I’m wondering why why you buy pre ground coffee it’s always so much finer? The recommended grind settings under the lid seem to be quite off, as I can’t imagine brewing at a 7…
@@amac8487 yes, the Gen 2. I’ve gone from a notch over 3 to 5 depending on the roast, all pour overs. Have gone finer for Aeropress.
I have been waiting for your review of this grinder! I bought the Ode 2 when it was released. I had seen a number of reviews, yours included, of the Gen 1 Ode, and that dissuaded me from buying one. The static problem might have been annoying but not a dealbreaker. But not being able to grind fine enough for a pourover? I wasn’t about to spend $300 for a grinder, only to have to swap out the burrs. So when the Ode 2 was released, I jumped on it. The first one that I received early last November did not work; turns out the motor was installed backwards. So I returned it and Fellow sent me a replacement, which worked fine. I’ve been using it daily since then (well, now and then I use my hand grinder), and I love it. There is no discernible retention- like a nerd, I’ve weighed the ground coffee that comes out every time and it always equals the weight of the beans going in. There is no issue with static at all. RDT was a necessity with my old grinder, but I stopped doing it with the Ode. But most importantly, I’m able to get a perfect grind for pourovers. For grinding 15-20 g light/medium roast coffee for a V60, I’ve found that right on 4 or one click beyond is the sweet spot. I notice that James was grinding finer. I’m doing pourovers that taste wonderful with clarity, complexity, and sweetness. I think I may have been disappointed with the original Ode, but the Ode 2 was money well spent.
I'd be interested in hearing about the Fellow Opus which is a bit cheaper. Might try upgrading my Wilfra
I love your continuity in jumpers from your 2020 review to this 2023 review.
the production value is amazing as always!
I bought this. I’ve had it for several months now, and I agree completely with every single thing said in this review. Same experience with the dosing cup, same slight cringe about the price, same tasty coffee and even independently arrived at the same grind size for light roasted specialty coffee. I’m very glad I bought it. This is my first electric grinder and I’m comparing it with the Timemore T2 hand grinder (IRRC the model name).
Been enjoying this grinder for about 3 months now with 1-2 cups a day. Coffees from roasters like The Barn, Standout and even more developed ones like the one I work with all have great clarity. Price wise I agree to a certain extent, however I will only really go as far as one filter grinder and one electric kettle. We decided to spend this much because I didn’t want an espresso machine. Most of my money goes towards roasted coffee and brewers. I will say, after watching this review and looking at the price, SSP Burrs might not be necessary. (Pro Tip: ask your shop owner to break even on a wholesale priced Ode 2. You might actually get one 😉)
You can rotate the dosing cup 90-180 degrees in your hand and just bypass the fins lol
The thing about the 2 being at the ~$350 range is that puts it squarely in the "it might be reasonable to spend more to get a higher quality grinder that can also do espresso" range. I suppose the latter point really doesn't matter if you don't do home espresso, but I think the former stands.
i have found when i use one grinder for both the fines and mix of grind size if i dont completely clean out before switching makes both taste worse.
It also puts the Ode 2 in a weird place in the lineup.
Here we have a grinder that's going to be almost $400 after tax/shipping that can only do filter.
But then we also have the opus which can do filter and espresso for just over $200
I think it would have made more sense to make the opus with premium materials and charge $399, have this be $299, and the Ode Gen 1 for $199. That would be a clear progression.
@@Kiaulen I was also confused by this! Making the "all-purpose" cheaper is an interesting idea. We'll see how it goes as the reviews start rolling in.
@@Kiaulen Probably market segmentation. The people who'd pay nearly 300$ for a filter-only grinder are quite distinct from those who are looking for a 200$ all-purpose grinder. If you're willing to spend that kind of money on your grinder, your espresso setup is most likely pushing 4 digits and you have a separate grinder for that. That's also a completely different market segment to compete in; for a Lelit Mara X setups or even more expensive, they'd compete with Eureka Mignons and the likes, where 100$ extra are not that much of an issue.
200$ grinders are instead paired with the cheaper end of thermoblocks, where the complete coffee setup is probably less expensive than the espresso grinder of the former.
@@Bobbobson32 same experience and it gets even worse when you use light roasts for filter and medium/dark roast for espresso
I got this grinder with the updated burrs last December. Within a week it started jamming. Cleaning and re-calibrating didn't do anything. It was like the outfeed is too small for the quantity going through and the trip on the motor was too sensitive. They ultimately replaced it and I got my replacement in mid-January as they were backordered. I haven't had the stalling issue, but one thing it can do is get beans stuck in the infeed into the burrs. The hole is small enough that if beans fall in right from multiple sides at the same time, they'll jam in there. You have to either shake it of shove more beans in there with your finger to pop them loose.
Now, I am very happy with the finished product and it fit the area I wanted it to perfectly which was one of the reasons I got it. I am a little less thrilled by it overall because of these issues considering the cost, which especially with the upgraded burrs, isn't particularly cheap for a non-espresso grinder. Their customer support is very responsive and willing to work with you, which is a big plus and I appreciate with any company.
Quick note on the ring that was mentioned, it's a small annoyance but I feel the real issue isn't that it's loose, but rather that it's soft rubber and will often seat crooked and require you to pop it out and set it down again. Functionally it's irrelevant, but if you're anal about things being straight it's annoying. Another very good video with some impressive cinematography.
I bought the Gen 2, in part based on your prior review of Fellow and doing some research into other grinders. I prefer drip so espresso grinds were not an issue. While looking at the prices for quality grinders I didn't think the price was outrageous or necessarily bad, plus I wanted something that will do a great job and *last*. As a techie, the ionizer did pique my interest and, basically, sealed the deal when splitting hairs of what to get.
Having used it daily, two or three times a day for a month, I have no big complaints. I do grind into the cup without the lid because...well...why even have it? I agree, it's the cup that is the one thing that could be tweaked a little better: make the cup taller, the lid snugger & the opening bigger (for those that need a tidy-looking lid), and remove the internal fins. I don't use those fins at all. Maybe put a corner in the cup body, so if you were to look down on the cup it would look like a raindrop.
I don't have refined taste buds; they are rather blunt so I'm at the left end of the bell curve for tasting minutia (it sucks). So reviews of how well a grinder works, how consistent the grinds are, how simple/easy it is to use, and how it ultimately provides a flavorful cup o' joe are helpful for me when deciding what I should look for. But what this grinder does do for me is 1) provide a known very good grind for drip coffee and, most importantly, 2) allows me to finally grind my own beans! While I don't think the price is too high, I can rationalize the cost of the grinder by the markedly improved freshness and flavor I get for my coffee, knowing that the grinder will last and that I'll be able to get new burrs if necessary.
you are my doppelgänger. V60 / Clever Pot / Chemex / AeroPress. Buy quality that lasts. Geeking out on the playing with RDT, because....science. I can identify with James' niggles about AUX but also find them hilarious and no where in the realm of deal breakers.
A solution for the static/retention on the Ode 1 is to touch the dosing cup and the exit chute while grinding. Doing this and RDT works as well.
Got mine here in the UK from “Coffee Hit” for £375 as an upgrade on my ceramic hand grinder last week and as you can imagine it’s been a massive upgrade.
Been having a lot of fun playing around with grind size and getting to know the flavours of coffee that much better. No issues with static (not doing water trick) or retention that is noticeable.
Would agree on the pouring “fins” not being great, typically do a twist a few times to get everything out but that would be my only complaint.
Obviously not cheap but feels like a premium experience to use and love the look of it on my table top, so £375 feels like getting value out of it, especially as I have no plans for espresso any time soon.
Would be interested in what other options at this price are being hinted to at the end of the video here? Was turned off by the wilfa uniform due to the really long grind times
All the same reasons that i ordered one yesterday. Also from Coffee Hit. Good to read your comments 😃
We got very lucky in that we had one of the Ode 1s, and it broke while just barely still under warranty, and when we put in a support ticket they just sent us an Ode 2 to replace it. How cool is that? They earned some loyalty there, for sure.
We love it, we've had no issues with our preferred light to medium roasts.
We immediately noticed the static issue being more or less resolved and we no longer mist our beans when we put them through. Part of me has always had a (probably unfounded) concern that even a little moisture might gum up the works in there over time in a way that dry beans wouldn't. The static issue was just so bad that it was causing worse issues, so we had to.
The increased hopper size is great. I know you don't like cold brew but it's a staple for us. We also do v60 whenever we have time, but being able to grab a delicious cup from the fridge with just a kettle of water is great, and the hopper size (and grind cup size) makes it a lot less obnoxious to do large batches of beans.
Speaking of the cup size, combined with the static issue being resolved, we don't really use the plastic lid anymore. With the Ode 1, if you didn't have the lid on, grinds would go *everywhere* because of the smaller cup size and the static. With the Ode 2 that's just not a concern. You get a little bit coming out here and there but not so much that you feel like you have to clean up every single time you use it.
The improved burrs go without saying. Great improvement.
Overall very impressed.
That ionizer looks amazing. I hate the mess I make when forgetting to RDT
We got ours during Christmas sales with a 2 as the first number. :) It's our very first big kid grinder but I like that it doesn't make a mess, two months later and there is still no grind dust on the counter. We grind around a 4/5 for the v60 because light roasts are hard to come by here. Worth the money for us!
Really looking forward to your review of the opus in the future! I am very wary of buying a grjnder from fellow after they released a grinder that couldn’t grind fine enough for the way in which 99% of their users were going to brew coffee, then sold them expensive burrs to fix the problem they released their grinder with!
99%? That's a hefty conjecture. According to the NCA, espresso made up only 11% of home coffee methods in 2022.
Anecdotally, I know three people and two coffee shops who use Odes exclusively for pour overs.
(edit - I should note that I'm also quite curious to see what he thinks about the Opus! And I'm not here to defend Fellow - I just thought the 99% was a bit strong)
I've used both a gen 1 and a gen 2 now, and I definitely agree that it was a huge improvement. I used to have massive static issues which seem almost completely resolved by the ionizer.
Also, I had a hard time grinding darker roasts with the gen 1 which doesn't seem like as much of a problem with the gen 2? I'm not sure if the feeding chute was changed other than the angle of the hopper ramp, but it no longer seems to jam at finer grinds. Could have been a static/retention issue too, but who knows, it's fixed!
Great video, now super interested in a review of their new grinder that-while having conical burrs-grinds for espresso and pour over. Might get it to have an all-in-one.
It's such a joy to watch and listen to you. Your reviews are guiding my purchase of a better grinder. Watching from San Antonio, Texas; USA.
The close-up of the RDT really made it click for me and I could tell there was a huge difference on the Ode 1, however the Ode 2 was hardly noticeable (for me, a simpel consumer). It seems those ionising openings really does quite well.
I switched to another video at the last 30sec or so, but I simply couldn't finish the video without hearing you wish me a great day so I came back for that bit.
Not disappointed.
The early comments seem like a lot people watched this video for the production quality over a new grinder review/comparison. That blows my mind because the actual information James puts out is way more interesting then how he films/edits.
It's just easier to react to sugar than to nuance, doesn't mean people aren't appreciating the data
That slow motion was GLORIOUS. WOW. loved that shot.
Got a Ode 1 with the V2 burrs a few weeks before this was announced, and don't really regret my decision. Found a discount even steeper than what Fellow was offering it for, and adding on the V2 burrs have made it a very complete grinder to me.
I appreciate people who are passionate on topics like this.
Firstly I want say great video, and very helpful and deciding on a grinder.
But I also wanted to say it would be great to see you revisit the Wilfa Uniform and see how it stacks up today against some of the newer filter focused grinders and any tips on potential upgrades one can make or the wilfa can make.
It would. I loved the idea and the look of the Ode (1) but was put off by the reviews - more the mess than the lack of fineness - and the feeling that Fellow were making their customers do their testing for them. Then the 2 was trailed but took for ever to appear (and still hasn't in the UK) and I got tired of waiting and bought a Uniform instead. That, in the unpainted metal finish, is giving pleasing results and no mess at all, so I won't be changing it. But it does seem like the closest rival to the 2, for European buyers anyway, so it would be interesting to see the two compared.
@@clivew772 absolutely, I tried the Ode on v60s on a couple occasions with different brewing techniques and it didn't seem to offer much in the way of clarity, bearing in I'm comparing it to my daily experience with the uniform. Obviously that's preference, some prefer clarity other favor sweetness.
But I totally agree, unless I'm missing something, it's defo the closest rival.
I like that James highlighted the price difference. While the face US price might not be that big (299 vs 345 usd), in Europe the gen 2 is to be sold for around 450 eur, whereas the gen 1 can be easily found for less than 290 eur. Massive change in price - clearly, there is nothing in gen 2 to justify the 50% price increase.
I was considering a set of SSP burrs for my Ode 1, but I think I may now go with the gen 2 burrs instead. The static isn't too bad, in my opinion, and it is pretty easy to negate with a touch of water. Seeing as I got my Ode for $225, an $80 burr set seems like a wonderful upgrade.
I was considering the Ode 2, but I didn't feel the price was justifiable. I would love to see your take on the Opus - is it a Jack-of-all-trades master-of-none, or does it really do a pretty good job? Maybe a comparison between the Ode and Opus at similar grind sizes...
What about a review of the new Fellow Opus conical burr grinder? Love your reviews. You always put a lot of thought into your approach to testing products and coffee. Keep up the good work.
omg the takes on the grinder and the v60, just insane!! were they made by a robot arm or an amazing camera person?? incredible!
"I don't want to be irked" - James Hoffmann. That should be on a t-shirt
Uuuuu, someone got the robot arm :D
yes, that's what it is, you got it right good sir
Purchased the Ode2 a while back after watching other reviews. While I agree with everything you've said, I'm glad I made the purchase and I think I'm getting a good value for money; All that you need to do is the math.
As with any $$$purchase, you need to ask yourself:
How much do you spend at your local coffee shop?
What kind of coffee do you like to drink?
Etc.
I did mine, and I found that the machine would pay for itself in way less than 100 cups, which is perfect because I plan on having it for at least a few years.
Thank you, James for another great review.
closed captions saying “coffee knocker a-knocking” gave an unexpected boost in happiness.
It was only a matter of time before “Mr. Production value” himself added a robot arm for the camera! As always, lovely video :)
I've been using an Ode 2 for about a month and I've been really enjoying it. I am very glad you commented on the weird fit between the dossing cup and its lid. It really bothered me when I first put it on. It just felt cheap considering the price of the grinder. For the fins I found doing a bit of a twist at the end gets all the coffee out, but I think if the angle was a bit steeper it might be less of an issue. Overall I've been loving the coffee I make using this grinder and the user experience has been great.
Thanks for the Video James and I hope you have a Great Day as well.
I agree with the comments you made about the dosing cup, lid and fins completely! Mine did jam once which was odd as I always start the grinder and then pour in beans. I got scared but I was able to free it up easily and move on. I have noticed that after a few weeks of daily use1-2x/day, the ionizer needs a thorough brushing off or it stops working well.
James, I'd love to see a video on Portuguese Espresso (BICA) and why it tastes so unique (and indeed why it transforms into a silky dark chocolate tasting syrup with 2-3 brown sugars stirred in where that really doesn't seem to work anywhere near as well with most espresso (this was consistent across every espresso I had in Lisbon)
I've been on this channel long enough to see the second version of a product. Awesome!
Love to see more reviews again! They are awesome !
I'm glad you mentioned the bit about the lid on the catch bin of the Ode. It just seems entirely unnecessary to me. I used it about 3 or 4 times before I ultimately threw it in an adjacent drawer to be forgotten.
I've watched the intro 10 times before even letting the rest of the video play out! Great stuff!
I don't need this kind of grinder but I do like how it tackles two of the (related) issues I have with my Niche Zero. One is the deioniser - without a spritz, my white Niche is absolutely covered in ground coffee. The second is the angle of the hopper - given that I need to spritz, the incidence of a bean or two sticking is very high. Kudos to Fellow, this looks great.
Inflation has been so huge since 2020 that I think the supply cost for the new parts (plus the R&D costs) justify the difference
And here we have the Marques Brownlee of Coffee Tech!!! Love your videos!
We are excited about the "less mess" aspect.
The beep was really unnecessary but a visual led would be nice, to be more inclusive.
No but you didn’t have to pop off THIS HARD with that cinematographic intro holy coffee beans! 🤤😍
AAAAAAnd now i'm stuck waiting for the Fellow Opus review!
2 things:
1) I have the original Ode (KS backer). I was disappointed with limitations of finer grinding. I waited, like everyone else, for them to fix the burrs and catch cup. I waited, and waited, and waited. I was very tired of waiting. I watched Lance Hedrick's video on the SSP and stepless MOD. I caved. Got the SSP burrs and did stepless MOD. Very happy with it now. Eventually got the V2 burrs. They are still in the box. Fellow NEVER did fix the catch cup. If I were to buy today, I'd just buy the Ode 2 with stock V2 burrs.
2) James - you gave SOOOO much quality material here for the next Hames Joffman video. Very much looking forward to that!
Thanks for the great review as always! Great to hear this gen2 is much better, makes it an easier option to consider.