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Loved the video. I drink 800ml of coffee a day and I'm in the market for a new grinder. A couple questions: What ratio do you typically go for with 800ml? What setting do you have your Ode set at?
I agree, the Ode works perfect with my Ratio 6, easy to use and very, very consistent. My Ode will grind pretty fine, I actually use about 7.2 grind setting, so at least with a batch brew, even pour-over, it has enough headroom in grind fineness.
When I saw that scott rao started talking about his automated v60s I got equally excited and disappointed. I loved the idea of not pour over (and over) on a daily basis, but was very discouraged by the fact that it seemed like I needed to buy an espresso machine to get it done properly. This video made me feel that excitement again! Very well articulated thoughts on value in the filter category, something that is often overlooked I feel. The phrase “good enough for filter” has been driving me crazy for ever. Thank you for this lovely video. Now if you excuse me I have to go and pester James Hoffman to make a video about the ratio six!
Great video! Just purchased my Ratio 6 and thinking getting the Ode grinder to go with it. Would you upgrade to the SSP burrs or just stick with stock ones if in brewing in the ratio 6 95% of the time?
Michael, great video. So I have the Ratio 6 and the Forte BG. In your video it was set to 7A, is that where you found the sweet spot? I have been using 4M and just feel it's not perfect. Our goal is to get it close to what is produced from the Aeropress.
I buy the value proposition of the grinder (I have a Rocky and a Virtuoso, myself), but not the brewer. If I want to batch brew, I put a V60 or Melitta on top of an insulted carafe and go to town. It's not *that* much more trouble than filling a machine with fresh ground coffee and water and it saves me counter space. I also get a flat bed every time. I do use the hot water spout on my water tower to save time heating up the kettle, though.
Great video! Could you please tell me how does Niche Zero compare to Fellow Ode when talking about pour over performance? I already have a Niche and now start thinking is it worth it geting an Ode too or not...
I’m thinking about switching to the ode to as espresso is so much effort and I think I prefer pour over anyway. I find that the Niche with some beans produces too many fines regardless of the grind setting (30, 40, 50, 60)
Just bought a used Ditting 804 with Lab Sweet Burrs, also but not only because of your Review. I want to have less stuff… 1 Espressomachine 1 Grinder to rule them all 1 Automatik Brewer And because of your Video, I will buy a Ratio 6 :)
Hi Michael. Thanks for sharing your experience. You said in another video you own Comandante. How would you compare the flavour profile of Comandante vs Fellow Ode for filter coffee?
Great video. I typically brew small batches. Do you know how this would handle 2-4 cups brewed at a time? Unlike the Ratio Eight, the Six does not have an auto sensor to adjust the water flow based on the volume. Thank you!
Latest version of ratio 8 don't have pressure sensor to determine how much water is in the tank, so it is similar to Ratio 6 in this area according to ratiocoffee.com/blogs/journal/a-more-robust-eight
I avoid batches under 800mls as the bloom amount is nearly 3.8x my dry coffee (~50g avg) at that size- dropping brew volumes doesn’t meaningfully reduce the bloom volume, so I stayaway from then
@@michael_j_fabian got it! I don’t need that much coffee when I brew for one, and so 650 is my max quantity brew, with 500 being the least wasteful of beans. Too bad the Ratio 6 is not so great under 800. Aeropress still seems the best method for single cup brewing....but I was hoping the Ratio 6 would be superior for 2 cup brews. :-(
If I can get Ratio 8 slighty cheeper than 6, is Ratio 6 still better deal concidering different build materials (steel vs aluminium, glass vs polymer water tank etc)? In terms of smaller batches is Ratio 8 more capable due to kone filter?
Excellent presentation! Scary the extent to which my path to great bew coffee has folled a very similar path. I now have a Ratio 8, and a 6. I also have a Forte BG and the Ode. I am not sure that the 6 beats the flavor of the 8, but they are both quite good. I do medium to dark-ish roasts and prefer earthy, rich low acid flavors to the really fruit-forward or floral flavors, in general - we may differ here.... Anyway, I initially loved the Ode, as it was waay faster than the Forte BG, and really easy and intervention-less to use. dose beans, hit button. voila! grinds. Do not mit the beans, so both grinders give some static. after a few weeks, even with cleaning, the Ode requires i srand there with it's lid open, and help the beans feed through smoothly.... This led me to seek another grinder- any thooughts on this? Also curious, on the 6, how long after the 'finished' light goes on does the water complete it's journey into the carafe for you? Mine takes a minute or two, while on the 8, done is done!
Interesting fzman! I have the Ratio 8 as well, but I mostly drink light to medium roasts. I have the Thermal carafe version. His comments on the Ratio 6 seem make me want to try it out. I am coming from a Bonavita Connoisseur. I am noticing that extractions are much better on the Ratio 8 with half pots (42g or so of coffee). When I do a full pot (70-80g coffee) much of the outer part of the coffee bed does not get wet. Are you having this issue?
Hi , I currently have the technivorm moccamaster and I’m not happy on the end temperature, I am thinking of returning, is the ratio 6 hot by the end ? Someone help.
Just watched most of your videos and really appreciate the info! I'm no barista, but I do like a good cup of coffee with an easy button. I've been using the Cuisinart CPO-850 for several years with an Infinity grinder at work and been overall very happy with brew quality. I have the same CPO-850 coffee maker at home but it's paired with a horrible Cuisinart burr grinder, so with the urge to upgrade my home grinder I found my way here looking at the Ode. Your recommendations for pairing the Ode to the Ratio 6 pushed me over the edge and I went ahead and bought both. I've heard wild variations for Ode grind settings -- what setting on the Ode would be a good place to start with for the Ratio six on light to medium roasts? Thanks!!
@@michael_j_fabian Thanks for the tip! That's what the folks over at Ratio said as well, as they have a Ratio Six and Fellow Ode in their breakroom and have the Ode set to #5.
@@michael_j_fabian At first the SSPs tasted better to me in the cup. I perceived a fuller extraction and more developed body and good flavors. Still dialing in daily a click up or down based on results from the day before ... not totaled settled. Your video has me second guessing the improvement. I may have to compare to the stock burrs again to confirm. And then there's the brewer....I am on a. Bonavita 1900, but have been eyeing the R6. cheers.
@@gregorio5543 I had heard this complaint and almost did not buy an Ode because of it, but in my initial testing with stock burrs I am grinding between 3-5 for 15-20g v60s based on taste. I am getting brew times between 3-4 mins, using 1-15 and 1-16 ratios. I tried both bloom and 2 pours, and bloom and 3 pours, with increasing amounts of water agitation. I guess it is possible this is a Fellow q/c issue that I won the lottery on. At this point, I am getting results so different from others that I am questioning my pour over technique and the genuineness of my Hario 02 filters. I would be interested to hear if anyone has any thoughts on what technique issue I might have, otherwise I will continue my Ode testing.
Excellent but only useful for large amounts of coffee and water, I don't know why these companies do not deal skillfully with one or two cups. I have this machine and often make me about two cups or less, and after throwing a small amount of water I turn it off and then turn it back on until the bloom are good
This guy is the Tim Mosso of WatchBox of the coffee world. Sounds like him too. If you read this Mike, look him up while with close friends who know you, you guys will get a kick out of it.
@@michael_j_fabian how how is the coffee when it’s done, I have the technivorm and the end results I’m not happy with after I add creamer do you find the coffee really hot after?
I've bought and tested almost every brewer on the SCAA list- this is the only one I ended up keeping, as it produces the best cup in my opinion. Next down was OXO's 12cup brewer, I loved that machine, but they don't last, I went through 3 of them in 2 years before I gave up on them. The only thing they really test is brew temp and extraction time- it doesn't factor in the actual taste of the coffee.
@@wyvern4588 that... Is absolutely shocking to hear the OXO was better than Technivorm and Bonavita. For BREW, I'm also a little surprised the Fellow Ode outshines the competition. I'm strongly considering a Eureka Mignon Brew Pro, but after this strong review, I may go Fellow Ode.
@@ff8123 The Technivorm made good coffee, but it had a nasty habit of making certain coffees over extracted regardless of what grind/grind amount you use, it also needed the most assistance and the float malfunctioned within a week- it was the cheapest made coffee maker I ever bought as well. Bonitiva was able to make good coffee as well, however brew temp was inconstant and it failed in 3 months of use. I tried both Bermor units- they both under-extracted and in 2 months the connected unit died due to a failed water release valve. I will note however I am on my second Ratio 6, the first one failed to respond to button presses, and the lid stopper breaks over time causing a dribbling mess, but thankfully Ratio was very prompt to replace my defective unit and it has been going strong for about a year now. I tried Euraka's lowest end grinder the mignon filtero- super well made, quiet and fast, as well as making good coffee, but it was a pain to dial in due to the infinite adjustment knob and would clog instantly if using grinds coarse enough for electric drip or french press- the container and chute was also a hassle. Shopping for a drip grinder now as the Breville one I got to replace my tired (and crappy) Kitchenaid is a piece of crap- the grind has started getting too fine, the grind amount is inconsistent and it's horribly slow and weak. Unfortunately there are a lot of expensive products that either don't deliver or break down constantly. I'm half tempted to build a Bunnzilla to finally end my coffee making woes- but I really don't want to spend $1100 for a 50lbs machine. I will note that the Sette 270 has been absolutely perfect for espresso, it's loud, but it takes like 5 seconds for a double shot- 2 years in and no issues! I too am thinking about the Ode, but the inability to grind fine enough for pour over has me question if I should pull the trigger. They did say summer 2021 there will be revisions to the burrs and grounds holder, but I can't wait that long.
@@wyvern4588 I own a Breville Grinder! I have the original Smart grinder. I don't recommend it either. After 6 years, the coffee tastes awful. I think there are too many ultrafines? I don't know why exactly but my coffee used to taste good and now it's very bad. $299 for Fellow Ode is fine to me, but I'd really rather have a hopper and grind directly into my filter basket because I don't do pourovers. I'm a drip and French Press guy 🤷. But hearing the Eureka Filtro clogs... I don't think it's worth looking at anymore. Clogging causes ultrafines, right? I like the Eureka Brew Pro, but I'm not sold on it creating coffee that's good enough to be worth the price of $670... Any advice?
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@Michael Fabian what grind size should I use for this machine? Thanks for the help
You’re the real deal when reviewing coffee equipment, you have so much knowledge when doing your review videos.
You're saving us all tons of time and frustration. Ultimate video for busy people who want top coffee.
Appreciate the short and to the point comments on your experience with different brewers and grinders, really good stuff and nicely done, thank you
Killer video. Love your no-nonsense approach.
Great video! Very informational! I've actually been thinking about these two for a quite a while.
Loved the video. I drink 800ml of coffee a day and I'm in the market for a new grinder. A couple questions: What ratio do you typically go for with 800ml? What setting do you have your Ode set at?
I agree, the Ode works perfect with my Ratio 6, easy to use and very, very consistent.
My Ode will grind pretty fine, I actually use about 7.2 grind setting, so at least with a batch brew, even pour-over, it has enough headroom in grind fineness.
Just bought this combo, super excited. Great review!
When I saw that scott rao started talking about his automated v60s I got equally excited and disappointed. I loved the idea of not pour over (and over) on a daily basis, but was very discouraged by the fact that it seemed like I needed to buy an espresso machine to get it done properly. This video made me feel that excitement again! Very well articulated thoughts on value in the filter category, something that is often overlooked I feel. The phrase “good enough for filter” has been driving me crazy for ever. Thank you for this lovely video. Now if you excuse me I have to go and pester James Hoffman to make a video about the ratio six!
Great video! Just purchased my Ratio 6 and thinking getting the Ode grinder to go with it. Would you upgrade to the SSP burrs or just stick with stock ones if in brewing in the ratio 6 95% of the time?
Nice video. The breakdown for the brewers was really good. I have my issues with the ode but I think this is an excellent overview and analysis.
Michael, great video. So I have the Ratio 6 and the Forte BG. In your video it was set to 7A, is that where you found the sweet spot? I have been using 4M and just feel it's not perfect. Our goal is to get it close to what is produced from the Aeropress.
I buy the value proposition of the grinder (I have a Rocky and a Virtuoso, myself), but not the brewer. If I want to batch brew, I put a V60 or Melitta on top of an insulted carafe and go to town. It's not *that* much more trouble than filling a machine with fresh ground coffee and water and it saves me counter space. I also get a flat bed every time. I do use the hot water spout on my water tower to save time heating up the kettle, though.
Great video! Could you please tell me how does Niche Zero compare to Fellow Ode when talking about pour over performance? I already have a Niche and now start thinking is it worth it geting an Ode too or not...
Watch this space, next upload answers that 😊
@@michael_j_fabian Awesome! Subscribed already :)
I’m thinking about switching to the ode to as espresso is so much effort and I think I prefer pour over anyway.
I find that the Niche with some beans produces too many fines regardless of the grind setting (30, 40, 50, 60)
Michael - Great video. Thank you! Which filter do you like with the Ratio Six?
How does the Ratio 6 compare to one of the Technivorm variants ?
I second this question.
Just bought a used Ditting 804 with Lab Sweet Burrs, also but not only because of your Review. I want to have less stuff…
1 Espressomachine
1 Grinder to rule them all
1 Automatik Brewer
And because of your Video, I will buy a Ratio 6 :)
Hi Michael. Thanks for sharing your experience. You said in another video you own Comandante. How would you compare the flavour profile of Comandante vs Fellow Ode for filter coffee?
What are your thoughts on the Bonavita compared to those?
Ordered. Thanks.
Great video! Just bought this combo myself - which grind setting would you recommend for the Ode?
I think ode being shown is referencing his preferred grind setting
Great video. I typically brew small batches. Do you know how this would handle 2-4 cups brewed at a time? Unlike the Ratio Eight, the Six does not have an auto sensor to adjust the water flow based on the volume. Thank you!
I cannot endorse anything below a 50g/800ml batch due to the blooming volume being roughly ~180-200g
Latest version of ratio 8 don't have pressure sensor to determine how much water is in the tank, so it is similar to Ratio 6 in this area according to ratiocoffee.com/blogs/journal/a-more-robust-eight
Great video. Do you ever pre-heat the carafe?
Nice! Thank you
Well, I’ve got the ODE and couldn’t be happier and am thinking of an addition and this just may be it✌️
I use V60 03 on my Ratio Eight with ceramic/thermal carafe combo. A flat bottom would be preferred!
I love your video so so much. This is fantastic!
Have you ever compared Comandante or other hand grinders vs Ode, or budget machine grinders?
What grind setting on the ode do you use for the ratio 6?
This is my exact combo-and I’m working on dialing in the Ode grind setting for a 500g of water? Any suggestion would be appreciated...!
I avoid batches under 800mls as the bloom amount is nearly 3.8x my dry coffee (~50g avg) at that size- dropping brew volumes doesn’t meaningfully reduce the bloom volume, so I stayaway from then
@@michael_j_fabian got it! I don’t need that much coffee when I brew for one, and so 650 is my max quantity brew, with 500 being the least wasteful of beans. Too bad the Ratio 6 is not so great under 800. Aeropress still seems the best method for single cup brewing....but I was hoping the Ratio 6 would be superior for 2 cup brews. :-(
Two thumbs up.✔🎶🎶🎶🎶
Would the niche be a good companion to the ratio?
He stresses that the niche does not perform well to his tastes as a brew grinder
How about the Hario Smart?
If I can get Ratio 8 slighty cheeper than 6, is Ratio 6 still better deal concidering different build materials (steel vs aluminium, glass vs polymer water tank etc)? In terms of smaller batches is Ratio 8 more capable due to kone filter?
Prefer the six due to the flat-bottom basket design
So, are you still happy with the Ratio Six?
Why haven't you tried a Technivorm? Best coffee maker I've ever used.
It's not an automatic brewer
Have you tried the Ode with smaller (15-22) g doses?
Working on it
Excellent presentation! Scary the extent to which my path to great bew coffee has folled a very similar path. I now have a Ratio 8, and a 6. I also have a Forte BG and the Ode. I am not sure that the 6 beats the flavor of the 8, but they are both quite good. I do medium to dark-ish roasts and prefer earthy, rich low acid flavors to the really fruit-forward or floral flavors, in general - we may differ here....
Anyway, I initially loved the Ode, as it was waay faster than the Forte BG, and really easy and intervention-less to use. dose beans, hit button. voila! grinds. Do not mit the beans, so both grinders give some static. after a few weeks, even with cleaning, the Ode requires i srand there with it's lid open, and help the beans feed through smoothly.... This led me to seek another grinder- any thooughts on this?
Also curious, on the 6, how long after the 'finished' light goes on does the water complete it's journey into the carafe for you? Mine takes a minute or two, while on the 8, done is done!
Interesting fzman! I have the Ratio 8 as well, but I mostly drink light to medium roasts. I have the Thermal carafe version. His comments on the Ratio 6 seem make me want to try it out. I am coming from a Bonavita Connoisseur. I am noticing that extractions are much better on the Ratio 8 with half pots (42g or so of coffee). When I do a full pot (70-80g coffee) much of the outer part of the coffee bed does not get wet. Are you having this issue?
@@shawnsgear I get quite even wetting, and a really level grounds bed
Hi , I currently have the technivorm moccamaster and I’m not happy on the end temperature, I am thinking of returning, is the ratio 6 hot by the end ? Someone help.
@@malena7362 the Ratio 6 is very hot by the end!
Just watched most of your videos and really appreciate the info! I'm no barista, but I do like a good cup of coffee with an easy button. I've been using the Cuisinart CPO-850 for several years with an Infinity grinder at work and been overall very happy with brew quality. I have the same CPO-850 coffee maker at home but it's paired with a horrible Cuisinart burr grinder, so with the urge to upgrade my home grinder I found my way here looking at the Ode. Your recommendations for pairing the Ode to the Ratio 6 pushed me over the edge and I went ahead and bought both. I've heard wild variations for Ode grind settings -- what setting on the Ode would be a good place to start with for the Ratio six on light to medium roasts? Thanks!!
Thanks for joining! I'd start at #5 for a 50g batch and go finer if you aren't happy with the strength
@@michael_j_fabian Thanks for the tip! That's what the folks over at Ratio said as well, as they have a Ratio Six and Fellow Ode in their breakroom and have the Ode set to #5.
What burr set is in the Ode? V1 or v1.1?
have you tested the ode with the SSP brew burrs vs. stock burrs? I upgraded soon after purchase and noticed an improvement.
An improvement how?
@@michael_j_fabian At first the SSPs tasted better to me in the cup. I perceived a fuller extraction and more developed body and good flavors. Still dialing in daily a click up or down based on results from the day before ... not totaled settled. Your video has me second guessing the improvement. I may have to compare to the stock burrs again to confirm. And then there's the brewer....I am on a. Bonavita 1900, but have been eyeing the R6. cheers.
@@michael_j_fabian Ode doesnt get nearly fine enough for 1 cup brews so upgrading the burrs to SSP could help fix that
@@gregorio5543 I had heard this complaint and almost did not buy an Ode because of it, but in my initial testing with stock burrs I am grinding between 3-5 for 15-20g v60s based on taste. I am getting brew times between 3-4 mins, using 1-15 and 1-16 ratios. I tried both bloom and 2 pours, and bloom and 3 pours, with increasing amounts of water agitation. I guess it is possible this is a Fellow q/c issue that I won the lottery on. At this point, I am getting results so different from others that I am questioning my pour over technique and the genuineness of my Hario 02 filters. I would be interested to hear if anyone has any thoughts on what technique issue I might have, otherwise I will continue my Ode testing.
Have any experience with the OE Apex?
So, once again, what was exactly problem with Behmor? The flow was too fast? I thought you just grind finer in this cases, aren't you?
Excellent but only useful for large amounts of coffee and water, I don't know why these companies do not deal skillfully with one or two cups.
I have this machine and often make me about two cups or less, and after throwing a small amount of water I turn it off and then turn it back on until the bloom are good
This guy is the Tim Mosso of WatchBox of the coffee world. Sounds like him too. If you read this Mike, look him up while with close friends who know you, you guys will get a kick out of it.
Brah! Your audio is off
Where these sent to you?
No- paid with my own money
@@michael_j_fabian yeyyy!!!
@@michael_j_fabian how how is the coffee when it’s done, I have the technivorm and the end results I’m not happy with after I add creamer do you find the coffee really hot after?
The coffee is quite hot, but it isn’t a bother to me- do I correctly understand that you’d prefer a less-hot end cup?
@@michael_j_fabian no I actually want it really hot , because I don’t think the technivorm is hot enough
I'm shocked this brewer isn't SCAA certified.
Maybe Ratio reaaallly doesn't want to pay the $1800 fee to have it tested? Who knows
I've bought and tested almost every brewer on the SCAA list- this is the only one I ended up keeping, as it produces the best cup in my opinion.
Next down was OXO's 12cup brewer, I loved that machine, but they don't last, I went through 3 of them in 2 years before I gave up on them.
The only thing they really test is brew temp and extraction time- it doesn't factor in the actual taste of the coffee.
@@wyvern4588 that... Is absolutely shocking to hear the OXO was better than Technivorm and Bonavita.
For BREW, I'm also a little surprised the Fellow Ode outshines the competition. I'm strongly considering a Eureka Mignon Brew Pro, but after this strong review, I may go Fellow Ode.
@@ff8123 The Technivorm made good coffee, but it had a nasty habit of making certain coffees over extracted regardless of what grind/grind amount you use, it also needed the most assistance and the float malfunctioned within a week- it was the cheapest made coffee maker I ever bought as well.
Bonitiva was able to make good coffee as well, however brew temp was inconstant and it failed in 3 months of use.
I tried both Bermor units- they both under-extracted and in 2 months the connected unit died due to a failed water release valve.
I will note however I am on my second Ratio 6, the first one failed to respond to button presses, and the lid stopper breaks over time causing a dribbling mess, but thankfully Ratio was very prompt to replace my defective unit and it has been going strong for about a year now.
I tried Euraka's lowest end grinder the mignon filtero- super well made, quiet and fast, as well as making good coffee, but it was a pain to dial in due to the infinite adjustment knob and would clog instantly if using grinds coarse enough for electric drip or french press- the container and chute was also a hassle.
Shopping for a drip grinder now as the Breville one I got to replace my tired (and crappy) Kitchenaid is a piece of crap- the grind has started getting too fine, the grind amount is inconsistent and it's horribly slow and weak.
Unfortunately there are a lot of expensive products that either don't deliver or break down constantly.
I'm half tempted to build a Bunnzilla to finally end my coffee making woes- but I really don't want to spend $1100 for a 50lbs machine.
I will note that the Sette 270 has been absolutely perfect for espresso, it's loud, but it takes like 5 seconds for a double shot- 2 years in and no issues!
I too am thinking about the Ode, but the inability to grind fine enough for pour over has me question if I should pull the trigger.
They did say summer 2021 there will be revisions to the burrs and grounds holder, but I can't wait that long.
@@wyvern4588 I own a Breville Grinder! I have the original Smart grinder. I don't recommend it either. After 6 years, the coffee tastes awful. I think there are too many ultrafines? I don't know why exactly but my coffee used to taste good and now it's very bad. $299 for Fellow Ode is fine to me, but I'd really rather have a hopper and grind directly into my filter basket because I don't do pourovers. I'm a drip and French Press guy 🤷.
But hearing the Eureka Filtro clogs... I don't think it's worth looking at anymore. Clogging causes ultrafines, right? I like the Eureka Brew Pro, but I'm not sold on it creating coffee that's good enough to be worth the price of $670...
Any advice?
Slightly off sync when I watch it
It’s amazing how much this ISNT about those two products. Bad video. You just like to hear yourself talk I assume? Haha
Do you have to do anything special to get such a flat & even coffee bed? Any spinning? Full 1L batch? Does the coffee bed suffer with half batches?
Nope- automated goodness! That’s a 50g, ~800ml batch- my standard. I haven’t tested between 25&50g, but don’t prefer the single cup dosing