I've been using the AMP Mk2 for about six months. So easy to use, no guesswork and you can start and only do 20 cases, leave to deal with the kids/wife/life in general, come back and continue with the same exact end-result for each case. Always a perfect metallurgic result. Repeatability and consistency, the two most important parameters in precision shooting.
@@Ultimatereloader if I remember correctly, it's the Ken Knight BC 1000 Automatic Case Annealer; does about one thousand per hour. Paid a about $500+ because of the extra plates. I don't think it's being made anymore.
@@Ultimatereloader I've seen them as simple as a slide for your brass(think Gatling gun magazine) As the brass drops, it's heated and dropped into water or your container. The heat source is a small propane torch. Basically just drop brass through and you're on your way
Love my AMP. Have had it for 3 years. Recently purchased the Aztec upgrade. So fast. So easy. Wouldn't go to a torch or salt bath method for all the Lapua brass in the world. Use it on every reloading cycle. Bullet tension stays the same every shot for the life of the brass, which is extensive.
I cant afford this machine, but i could afford the salt bath. I like what you say about the life of the brass. Thats important to me. I really noticed a shrinking of my groups once i began annealing. But i have a little ngvway to go to get sub MOA....👍
I fully appreciate the premium price for the absolute state-of-the-art annealing equipment. This is not entry level equipment by any means...just the best.
Great product for the pro shooter who wants to squeeze out another .001 from their groups. I’ll be curious to see a test on groups from the amp vs propane annealers. Your vids are the best Gavin.
I got the first model of the AMP with 4 caliber adapters and two of the brass shell holder adapters on EBay for $700.00. Slightly used. Have done 2500 cases, works great
Jonathan thornton no, I have had mine about a year now. Keep eyes open, they are out there. I tried several other kinds with the flame method and didn’t like it, induction is the best IMO
Jonathan thornton good for you! I know building your own induction set up would be satisfying to do. I really didn’t have time or smarts to do it myself, lol. Good on ya
After reading the literature and watching all the videos I finally decided to pull the trigger on one of these. This stuff is fascinating and I’ll be happy to not have to deal with torches anymore. I’ll be very interested to analyze different brands of brass too.
Creedmoor Sports sells a nice Pilot Tray to store pilots, saving the reinstallation of the thread protector for pilots. Threads sit in a protective recess inbthe tray. Made from the same indestructible material their loading trays use.
That start button sure gets a workout. Can you imagine doing 200-300 brass? Standing or sitting feeding and pressing the start button for hours. I’ll stick with loading the hopper on my flame thrower and sit back watching videos while it does it’s thing.
Thanks Gavin, I've been staying away from the Aztec feature and just using the standard mode. You answered a question of mine when you walked us through start up. I'll have to try that next time around. Can't wait to see your testing and results.
Two tips: 1) Use a deeper pan for the annealed cases. I use a bread loaf pan and use the edge to scrape the brass out of the shell holder. No need to touch that hot brass with your fingers. I also use a hot pad under the pan to protect the bench. 2) You should only need to touch the start once when annealing.
With my reloading knowledge regarding tools. The high price tools are always worth it, especially for the speed, convenience, and repeatable results it offers. Another in my bag of wants right after the Labradar chronograph.
I didn’t know that there was more than one company making annealing machines that came out of the reloading brass. There are two now that does the job in New Zealand . The other one has a really nice attachment that allows to automatically load and load shells without touching the case. I like the alternative of the alternative machine plus the accessory that automates the whole routine.
I use a Giraud. Load it up with cases and let it go once you have it set. No hands after you set it up so you can do other stuff. Not nearly as expensive as this setup. This is a very nice setup though.
The AMP machine is certainly not for everyone - especially in light of the cost. However, after evaluating different methods which included not just the fabled internet search but actually speaking with accomplished shooters who do anneal, (not all top shooters anneal, David Tubb to name one) I chose to anneal, to use induction annealing, and specifically the AMP Mark II for the consistency it provides and the ease of use. Changing between cases is so simple - just change the pilot and enter the code and one is off and running. There is no flame to adjust in intensity or position or gas pressure to worry about, no tempilaq or guessing on proper temperature so only one burned case per lot, no worry about high temp liquid salt spilling or splashing, it takes only about a total of 6 seconds for each case (which includes transfer from loading block, to shellholder, to machine, to cooling pan). As I said, the AMP is not for everyone, but it was the right choice for me.
Very nice piece of equipment. I could build the main electrical parts myself. I would need someone to make the bushings for it tho. Electrical items and the case...maybe 300 bucks. I really may start on this project! Much neater than the flame.
To the people complaining about price - this isn't for you. You get what you pay for and if you're bitching about investing in precision tooling for a hobby, you should reconsider what you're investing your time in.
Did no one suggest the Giraud annealing set up with the Annie Induction kit? It is a near fully automatic system. Near the end you say “very fast process”, so much slower than my Giraud. Please have a look if you haven’t. His trimmer is also the best and fastest I’ve ever seen.
@@lucass4758 Giraud has a video on his web site as well as here on youtube for the annie. Don't know about the service after the purchase of the annie or if you would even need it but was told that sometimes it is hard to get in touch with the maker of the annie. I use both of Girauds tools, the annealer and the trimmer and they are both top notch. The trimmer is unreal and the annealer is hands free after set up. You load the container up with 100-200 or so 223 and let it go.
Lucas S his website is the link above your comment. Everything “rundmm” said is seconded by me. Annealing wise it easily handles 50 BMG too. Pro tip Get metal catchment bins.
@@Adcomb yeah absolutely mate your correct, that's why I still do it. Although alot of people don't realise that it has already been annealed at the factory, Iv spoken to alot of people over the years who thought brass had never been annealed
@Gavintoobe - what happened to all the follow-up on the annealer you mentioned at the end of the video? Did it not live up to expectations or is the content still on the backlog?
I looked at their website and read the limited warranty section. I am wondering what problems will occur with replacement elements etc coming from New Zealand Since this machine is some serious bucks, warranty for the heating part of the system should be longer.
I anneal by the salt bath process at 1/10 the cost ($140 vs $1400) and although it isn’t as perfect as the AMP I doubt if anybody could tell the difference in either longevity or accuracy.
Yeah but this has a case feeder it's the Cadillac of annealing. www.creedmoorsports.com/product/AMPMAF/see-all-departments?pk_cid=10&pk_keyword=AMPMAF&pk_medium=multifeeds&pk_campaign=GoogleUS&pk_source=GoogleUS&pk_content=SportingGoodsOutdoorRecreation&GoogleUS&gclid=CjwKCAjwm4rqBRBUEiwAwaWjjFmnSLpg2jqmQmvbiuv2LFSnpPBOnLjbKxd5Nrx_QXdotwJJgK0ALhoCrcYQAvD_BwE
I don't think reloaders need to anneal their brass. From my metallurgy engineering class I learned when the new brass is formed by series of dies from a flat disc, it goes through deformation and causes stress to the metal ( becomes brittle ) therefore it needs to be heat treated to relieve the stress and bring the metal back to it's original malleable property. There is negligible deformation caused nor does it get hot enough to change the metallic properties of the brass.
@@nofeesh My friend Eric has had a lot of issues with 6.5 Creedmoor case longevity (splits, separations, etc). Will annealing help? We're going to find out!
@@Ultimatereloader I’m very interested in your result as well! I didn’t mean to be adamant about the subject, my opinion is mostly based on theory which may have faults. I have reloaded 12,000+ rounds of 5.56 for about three years and I have learned few things that I can share if it benefits anyone. Some of the brass I have been using were reloaded well into 20+ times. I am now noticing handful of brass with splitting at the neck. What I have read on the internet is when a brass is full length sized multiple times, the base of it's cartridge will weaken and fail. Contrary to that, I am finding the neck is splitting vertically. I know, I shouldn’t be reloading it that many times but I wanted to know how many times I can reload a brass before it fails. Also, I’ve learned 5.56 brass does not need to be trimmed, at least I have not done so and I have tested brass well over it’s recommended trimmed length and I had no issues. I have 6.5 Creedmoor but don't have any experience with it so I'm very interested in your result. Thanks for the videos, when I got started reloading, your videos were instrumental to me.
One question. If I purchase a bag of 500 308 once fired brass, since they are all 308 but there are many headstamps and many lot numbers, do you need to destroy all of them calibrating or is simply calibrating one of the 308 cases good enough for annealing the rest of the bag?
Daren James actually- it’s not the same- this machine analyzes cases and then uses a different method for heating/annealing. Not saying yours is bad or inadequate- just not the same :)
@Darren James - Sorry to tell you buddy, your butane torch is not remotely even in the same league. I used the butane torch method for years and it was always hit or miss and a P.I.T.A.
Potato tomato. Works for me and was recommended by the guy that taught me. We used to shoot all the time in Mo. He’d typically shoot clean at 600y with 75% X’s. I just think there’s top notch equipment and then there’s just throwing money out the window because it’s cool. Seems to me world class shooters have been butane for over 50y. Still love the show.
Another great product Gavin and setup demo. I received mine in April and love it. I ordered the auto feeder a week later and it makes the process even easier!! The AMP guys did an interesting study on the Salt Bath annealing. A must watch, surprising results. I wont give a spoiler🤫
So I still in the research part of reloading. I’m thinking of using the spare bedroom as my loading room. My concern is that it’s carpeted. Do I need to worry about static with either carpet or a plastic table used as a reloading bench? I know it’s not ideal but I’m just getting into it and don’t plan to do mass production stuff, just what I shoot and will probley form some 300 blk brass
I'm quite sure that this gives you the most precision possible for annealing, but it doesn't auto-feed, and the thing costs a bloody fortune. Maybe there's a benchrester out there who can justify this to milk the last 0.001" out of his groups, but I just don't see how nearly any regular shooter would get this when there are considerably more affordable annealers that even auto-feed all of the brass.
Yes! Annealing with the Annealeez is the only way to go for us regular folks. The price is right and it can anneal a lot of brass over a short amount of time.
@@Ultimatereloader I guess I don't really have a problem with the price as much as I do for the speed of the machine. I was really thinking it would have some sort of feed tray rather than loading one at a time. How many times can you shoot a case without annealing before running into problems?
I'm with you. It seems he is reviewing nothing but the gucci equipment almost no handloader except the most serious (BPCR guys, F-class, service rifle etc...) shooters would have.
Salt bath annealing works just as well and as quickly. It's just not as convenient and messier. Of course, AMP will tell you it sucks LOL. The results at the range along with brass consistency and longevity speak for themselves.
Great overview of the machine. No doubt at all that it's a brilliant annealer, but more importantly, I cannot wait to see if that annealing has any accuracy effect on new or aged brass. Hope you will split the brass into 2 batches of annealed and non-annealed each for brass age / batch for a fair test. These machines are a significant investment and it would be great to see what if any difference it makes in the real world, and at what distance any effects are noticeable, before committing.
@Kevin Adam - I anneal with the AMP MkII after every firing and have noticed lower SD's and about 1/4 - 1/3 better accuracy with my 6.5 CM and .308. The neck tension is consistent and that's what matters to me more than longer case life. Every time you anneal a case even if it's been fired many times, it returns to it's virgin state. The only thing that limits the life of a properly sized case is that the primer pocket will eventually give out.
Dear Gavin,happy festive days and a prosperous Newyear.I would like to know if these case pilots (where the cases get inserted to) are case specific or "mother"case specific.Or are they shoulder,neck,case length or base specific?!I got a couple wildcats of my own?(This is the reason)I got a wildcat based on the 6,5×55SM but blown out and necked down to .243 with a 35°shoulder.I also do have a 6-06AI as well as a 404 Jeffreys AI.Do I in all these cases take the normal 6,5-55SM insert or the 30-06 in case of the 6-06AI or the 404Jeffreys? For all cases based on .308 size base like(22-250,243Win,308,30-06,7×57,6×57,6Rem.,6,5×57,7×64,8×57,9,3×62)do I use the same insert?!With all cartridges based on the old 300H&H or 375H&H (257Wby.,300H&H,300Win.,300Wby.,340Wby,375H&H,7mmSTW,458Win.,416Rem,458Lott,etc.) Or are they case length based etc.? I would apreciate a more clear clarification in connection with this.I am interested to purchase a machine but would like to know more detail first.
Great review! I usually do not clean brass after firing, only using brush thru neck. Do you think it is better to clean the brass for example with ultrasonic cleaner?
Ummmm, yeah. Clean the brass man. Ultrasonic is easy. Slap the brass in and put the detergent in and then just rinse after 30 minutes in the bath. If you want it to dry fast, put it in the oven or let it dry overnight and then de prime the brass, trim it, seat a primer, load the powder and seat a bullet. If you want you can crimp the neck too.
Just get a vibratory tumbler and use treated ground walnut hulls as the media. Tumble for 2-4 hours, sift out the media (there are lots of different media separators for this that can be gotten at reasonable prices), then load. You can run a brush through the necks if you want, but you probably won't need to do it, as long as you change out your tumbling media every 1000 or so cases tumbled in it.
Why do you anneal your brass? what measurable [statistical] evidence have you determined from your rifle builds using annealed vs. not annealed brass? ps, love your work!
It's for consistency if you don't shoot long range it's not as important other than brass life it softens the neck back up and allows you to get the same neck tension better sd's and es's it will play a big roll once you start going for 1000+ yards
Great tool but to much expensive for some shooters ;) I use the salt bath annealing process. Redo the kit cause can get it from Canada and it works great too but need to check be between 510° and 550° C to have a good annealing, only the bad side on this system, temperature check, need 30 min to have the good temperature too. Oki, an other, be really carefull to avoid water with salt :)
I’m sorry yo have the machine that I though was another machine. It didn’t take me long after I went through the maze that it was the same machine and I have good news as it comes with other machine that work with it. I could see that you may use it as another section and talk about it later. Neat machine non the less.
I’ll pass I prefer the Annealeez Gen 2 machine for $275.00 Much more economical and you can place a 200 cases, the difference is uses a small camping propane canister tank but You have deep pockets them buy AMP Mark ll $1,500
The subject that seems to get overlooked is the group size. .........Everything else is equal and after 5 (or some other number) firings the brass shoots “X” with annealing and “X” without annealing.
Who can really afford these tools you’ve been reviewing? I sure can’t. It’s good to see how far reloading equipment has develop but the point of reloading, for most, is to save money.
I produce content for people in all budget categories- and I'm showing a lot of the tools that I'm using or will be using to do serious research and provide meaningful insights about reloading to this audience. I'd invite you to view some of my content featuring the TC Compass, Kel-Tec PF-9, Budget Precision 223 Series, LEE reloading gear, etc. Lots of variety in price ranges.
gavintoobe hey Gavin. I am glad you do. I’ve been watching your vids for a long time and basically learn a lot from you. I’m also glad the industry has leapt forward but I think products like these are over kill when there are less expensive alternatives. If people can afford them by all means, they should go ahead and purchase them. Again, I think the pricing for some of these things are a bit too much and overkill.
Kito66j1 it’s like a pro camera lens or a Cummins engine in a truck- not everyone needs them or can afford them but they definitely have their place! This particular a new machine does stuff that others don’t.
@@Ultimatereloader True, but to have any kind of through-put, you need their feeding gizmo and a third party case feeder. For the price, I would expect them to provide something that's a little less tedious.
Its a great product which we all would like to have. That being said 90 percent of the viewers could never afford this. 1,500 to anneal brass ??? Do some videos on what an every day 9-5 working man would have. Not life styles of the rich n famous.. You are out of touch with your viewers.
Please take a look at my video library- TC Compass Review, LEE Reloading Equipment, Budget Precision 223, ..., ..., ..., ... My goal is to show as much variety of tools as possible- cheap, mid-grade, and expensive. Do you not watch Top Gear because they show Ferarris? :)
Also- I'm doing research and sharing my data with my viewers. Real research demands real tools. I realize not everyone is doing that, but competitive shooters and researchers need top-quality tools.
I like your channel and topics. But they seem more like Sunday morning TV infomercials than reviews. Not mentioning the numerous times you promised a topic that never come out. Infomercials and clickbait should not be part of serious channel content. No disrespect intended, just constructive comment …
I've been using the AMP Mk2 for about six months. So easy to use, no guesswork and you can start and only do 20 cases, leave to deal with the kids/wife/life in general, come back and continue with the same exact end-result for each case. Always a perfect metallurgic result. Repeatability and consistency, the two most important parameters in precision shooting.
Do you have to sacrifice cases each time you relaod or when you do a batch of brass to be annealed.
@@yojimbo05 you only have to sacrifice One piece of brass Once per batch.
@@adriandeklerk887 gotcha thank you for the information
I didn’t know a sticker and hat are included! Now the price seems worth it. Thanks man!
Right though
I bought an annealing machine two decades ago and still using it!
It's a must when you
you're doing brass forming for wildcats.
Awesome- what kind of annealer?
@@Ultimatereloader if I remember correctly, it's the Ken Knight BC 1000 Automatic Case Annealer; does about one thousand per hour. Paid a about $500+ because of the extra plates.
I don't think it's being made anymore.
@@Ultimatereloader I've seen them as simple as a slide for your brass(think Gatling gun magazine)
As the brass drops, it's heated and dropped into water or your container. The heat source is a small propane torch. Basically just drop brass through and you're on your way
Love my AMP. Have had it for 3 years. Recently purchased the Aztec upgrade. So fast. So easy. Wouldn't go to a torch or salt bath method for all the Lapua brass in the world. Use it on every reloading cycle. Bullet tension stays the same every shot for the life of the brass, which is extensive.
I cant afford this machine, but i could afford the salt bath. I like what you say about the life of the brass. Thats important to me. I really noticed a shrinking of my groups once i began annealing. But i have a little ngvway to go to get sub MOA....👍
I have owned an AMP annealer for about a year. It works great and the customer service can't be beat.
I would hope so for $1500
2:02 Helpful hint: Desiccant rather than "dissectant" (which is not a word).
Awesome product and review!
I fully appreciate the premium price for the absolute state-of-the-art annealing equipment. This is not entry level equipment by any means...just the best.
Well said- agree with you there.
Great product for the pro shooter who wants to squeeze out another .001 from their groups. I’ll be curious to see a test on groups from the amp vs propane annealers. Your vids are the best Gavin.
300 yards not the big difference
I got the first model of the AMP with 4 caliber adapters and two of the brass shell holder adapters on EBay for $700.00. Slightly used. Have done 2500 cases, works great
Mick Hayes the one that was on eBay a few days ago? Haha
Jonathan thornton no, I have had mine about a year now. Keep eyes open, they are out there. I tried several other kinds with the flame method and didn’t like it, induction is the best IMO
Mick Hayes gotcha! I built my own induction annealer.
Mick Hayes I’ve been tempted to buy an AMP, but I have enjoyed developing my home built induction annealer andddd making improvements over time.
Jonathan thornton good for you! I know building your own induction set up would be satisfying to do. I really didn’t have time or smarts to do it myself, lol. Good on ya
That's almost the height of reloading decadence! It reminds me of the heady days of the Lyman Case Prep Xpress
It's pretty amazing!
After reading the literature and watching all the videos I finally decided to pull the trigger on one of these. This stuff is fascinating and I’ll be happy to not have to deal with torches anymore. I’ll be very interested to analyze different brands of brass too.
Creedmoor Sports sells a nice Pilot Tray to store pilots, saving the reinstallation of the thread protector for pilots. Threads sit in a protective recess inbthe tray. Made from the same indestructible material their loading trays use.
Wow you lucky man...if I didn’t have so many hobbies and things to buy this would be high on my reloading list...for now I’m using the lowly annealeez
If not now, perhaps later? :)
That start button sure gets a workout. Can you imagine doing 200-300 brass? Standing or sitting feeding and pressing the start button for hours. I’ll stick with loading the hopper on my flame thrower and sit back watching videos while it does it’s thing.
Would be nice if they included a storage place on the machine for your different pilots. Pretty dollar for this thing.
Thanks Gavin, I've been staying away from the Aztec feature and just using the standard mode. You answered a question of mine when you walked us through start up. I'll have to try that next time around. Can't wait to see your testing and results.
Two tips:
1) Use a deeper pan for the annealed cases. I use a bread loaf pan and use the edge to scrape the brass out of the shell holder. No need to touch that hot brass with your fingers. I also use a hot pad under the pan to protect the bench.
2) You should only need to touch the start once when annealing.
Thanks Steve- just found that out about the Start button :) I'll look at the bread trays, love the hot pad/insulator idea...
With my reloading knowledge regarding tools. The high price tools are always worth it, especially for the speed, convenience, and repeatable results it offers.
Another in my bag of wants right after the Labradar chronograph.
Get a LabRadar instead.
@@Edgy01 Lol, you won any big league long range competition with just the lab radar?
I didn’t know that there was more than one company making annealing machines that came out of the reloading brass. There are two now that does the job in New Zealand . The other one has a really nice attachment that allows to automatically load and load shells without touching the case. I like the alternative of the alternative machine plus the accessory that automates the whole routine.
I use a Giraud. Load it up with cases and let it go once you have it set. No hands after you set it up so you can do other stuff. Not nearly as expensive as this setup. This is a very nice setup though.
The AMP machine is certainly not for everyone - especially in light of the cost. However, after evaluating different methods which included not just the fabled internet search but actually speaking with accomplished shooters who do anneal, (not all top shooters anneal, David Tubb to name one) I chose to anneal, to use induction annealing, and specifically the AMP Mark II for the consistency it provides and the ease of use. Changing between cases is so simple - just change the pilot and enter the code and one is off and running. There is no flame to adjust in intensity or position or gas pressure to worry about, no tempilaq or guessing on proper temperature so only one burned case per lot, no worry about high temp liquid salt spilling or splashing, it takes only about a total of 6 seconds for each case (which includes transfer from loading block, to shellholder, to machine, to cooling pan). As I said, the AMP is not for everyone, but it was the right choice for me.
Well said Jim!
Very nice piece of equipment. I could build the main electrical parts myself. I would need someone to make the bushings for it tho. Electrical items and the case...maybe 300 bucks. I really may start on this project! Much neater than the flame.
To the people complaining about price - this isn't for you. You get what you pay for and if you're bitching about investing in precision tooling for a hobby, you should reconsider what you're investing your time in.
The best of the best kit, but sometimes you can get away with the old drill + butane torch method (and some Tempilaq for different brands of brass)
Just received mine a few weeks back. Thing is awesome and worth the price.
Use a metal bowl for the hot brass... It'll be a lot easier to slide the case out of the holder. You'll get a quick rhythm going.
Did no one suggest the Giraud annealing set up with the Annie Induction kit? It is a near fully automatic system. Near the end you say “very fast process”, so much slower than my Giraud. Please have a look if you haven’t. His trimmer is also the best and fastest I’ve ever seen.
www.giraudtool.com/index.html
Got a link or anything to this setup with Giraud and Annie?
@@lucass4758 Giraud has a video on his web site as well as here on youtube for the annie. Don't know about the service after the purchase of the annie or if you would even need it but was told that sometimes it is hard to get in touch with the maker of the annie. I use both of Girauds tools, the annealer and the trimmer and they are both top notch. The trimmer is unreal and the annealer is hands free after set up. You load the container up with 100-200 or so 223 and let it go.
Lucas S his website is the link above your comment. Everything “rundmm” said is seconded by me. Annealing wise it easily handles 50 BMG too. Pro tip Get metal catchment bins.
charles hetrick was hoping for something more in-depth on the setup of it
Fun fact, all brass is annealed at the factory. I still do it when I'm loading for serious matches but it's more of a superstition for me
@@Adcomb yeah absolutely mate your correct, that's why I still do it.
Although alot of people don't realise that it has already been annealed at the factory, Iv spoken to alot of people over the years who thought brass had never been annealed
@Gavintoobe - what happened to all the follow-up on the annealer you mentioned at the end of the video?
Did it not live up to expectations or is the content still on the backlog?
Great video and demo.
Love my Vertex Bench Source.
It comes with a cozy! Awesome.
Haha
I'll wait for the mk iii. Going to use my kids' college fund to buy it.
Just ordered a Mk II on sale.
I'd like to ask do you need to destroy case everytime if you annealing or can u use the same case everytime?
You only need to press start once. The light turns red when its annealing
Yes, I found that out today 😂 I was working WAY too hard :)
I hope these are as good as people say. I just ordered one!
I looked at their website and read the limited warranty section. I am wondering what problems will occur with replacement elements etc coming from New Zealand
Since this machine is some serious bucks, warranty for the heating part of the system should be longer.
I anneal by the salt bath process at 1/10 the cost ($140 vs $1400) and although it isn’t as perfect as the AMP I doubt if anybody could tell the difference in either longevity or accuracy.
Yeah but this has a case feeder it's the Cadillac of annealing.
www.creedmoorsports.com/product/AMPMAF/see-all-departments?pk_cid=10&pk_keyword=AMPMAF&pk_medium=multifeeds&pk_campaign=GoogleUS&pk_source=GoogleUS&pk_content=SportingGoodsOutdoorRecreation&GoogleUS&gclid=CjwKCAjwm4rqBRBUEiwAwaWjjFmnSLpg2jqmQmvbiuv2LFSnpPBOnLjbKxd5Nrx_QXdotwJJgK0ALhoCrcYQAvD_BwE
Was going to mention the same. AMP is nice for sure but for most people spending some time at the range plinking, it's probably overkill.
I don't think reloaders need to anneal their brass. From my metallurgy engineering class I learned when the new brass is formed by series of dies from a flat disc, it goes through deformation and causes stress to the metal ( becomes brittle ) therefore it needs to be heat treated to relieve the stress and bring the metal back to it's original malleable property. There is negligible deformation caused nor does it get hot enough to change the metallic properties of the brass.
Brass gets hardened from being fired and being worked by the sizing die (work hardening).
@@Ultimatereloader true to both but how many times would you have to bend a paper clip in order to break it if we're only bending it 1/100" at a time?
@@nofeesh My friend Eric has had a lot of issues with 6.5 Creedmoor case longevity (splits, separations, etc). Will annealing help? We're going to find out!
@@Ultimatereloader I’m very interested in your result as well! I didn’t mean to be adamant about the subject, my opinion is mostly based on theory which may have faults. I have reloaded 12,000+ rounds of 5.56 for about three years and I have learned few things that I can share if it benefits anyone. Some of the brass I have been using were reloaded well into 20+ times. I am now noticing handful of brass with splitting at the neck. What I have read on the internet is when a brass is full length sized multiple times, the base of it's cartridge will weaken and fail. Contrary to that, I am finding the neck is splitting vertically. I know, I shouldn’t be reloading it that many times but I wanted to know how many times I can reload a brass before it fails. Also, I’ve learned 5.56 brass does not need to be trimmed, at least I have not done so and I have tested brass well over it’s recommended trimmed length and I had no issues. I have 6.5 Creedmoor but don't have any experience with it so I'm very interested in your result. Thanks for the videos, when I got started reloading, your videos were instrumental to me.
Great video gavintoobe .
One question. If I purchase a bag of 500 308 once fired brass, since they are all 308 but there are many headstamps and many lot numbers, do you need to destroy all of them calibrating or is simply calibrating one of the 308 cases good enough for annealing the rest of the bag?
My butane torch for 5sec intervals does the same thing for 1/100th the $$$
Daren James actually- it’s not the same- this machine analyzes cases and then uses a different method for heating/annealing. Not saying yours is bad or inadequate- just not the same :)
@Darren James - Sorry to tell you buddy, your butane torch is not remotely even in the same league. I used the butane torch method for years and it was always hit or miss and a P.I.T.A.
Potato tomato. Works for me and was recommended by the guy that taught me. We used to shoot all the time in Mo. He’d typically shoot clean at 600y with 75% X’s. I just think there’s top notch equipment and then there’s just throwing money out the window because it’s cool. Seems to me world class shooters have been butane for over 50y. Still love the show.
$1,400.. now i know why you didn't tell the price.
Bought this unit last month.
How are you liking it Doug?
Good tools are indispensable. No fire means no added heat. Fast, quiet & simple to operate. Worth every penny.
Is this a necessary process for straight wall cartridges or pistol calibers like 9mm?
Does it come with a porsche??
Would really love to go that way but the price or the amount I shoot just doesn't work...Bummmer
When is annealing needed?
Excellent !
Now I am AMPed ! ! !
Another great product Gavin and setup demo. I received mine in April and love it. I ordered the auto feeder a week later and it makes the process even easier!! The AMP guys did an interesting study on the Salt Bath annealing. A must watch, surprising results. I wont give a spoiler🤫
Thanks Greg- I read their paper- very interesting. I'm hoping to get a hardness tester at some point... I'd love to take readings of my own!
So I still in the research part of reloading. I’m thinking of using the spare bedroom as my loading room. My concern is that it’s carpeted. Do I need to worry about static with either carpet or a plastic table used as a reloading bench? I know it’s not ideal but I’m just getting into it and don’t plan to do mass production stuff, just what I shoot and will probley form some 300 blk brass
I see you are air cooling. Is that that your process still? Which is best, air or water?
I'm quite sure that this gives you the most precision possible for annealing, but it doesn't auto-feed, and the thing costs a bloody fortune.
Maybe there's a benchrester out there who can justify this to milk the last 0.001" out of his groups, but I just don't see how nearly any regular shooter would get this when there are considerably more affordable annealers that even auto-feed all of the brass.
1500$ and take all day. I'll pass . I use Annealeez and you can load a ton and set back and watch it run . For around 225$
Yes! Annealing with the Annealeez is the only way to go for us regular folks. The price is right and it can anneal a lot of brass over a short amount of time.
@@johncashwell1024 how you both experienced the same results or is there any diffence in this annealing machine comapred to Annealeez
Excellent it takes all the mysticism out of annealing. 2 questions does it come with the threaded shell holder? what is the network cable for?
How much does that machine cost
Tom Reed $1400.00 USD
$1,400 on Brownells.
Ty
This tool is not for all budgets, and it's not for people that want to just shoot factory ammo :)
@@Ultimatereloader I guess I don't really have a problem with the price as much as I do for the speed of the machine. I was really thinking it would have some sort of feed tray rather than loading one at a time. How many times can you shoot a case without annealing before running into problems?
Any discount codes?
You need to get the automated feeder system.
Looking into it!
I would like to see a comparison between the machine and by hand, drill, torch and water, say 20 rounds each for accuracy and velocity deviation.
Great idea! Perhaps in the future I'll look at doing a story like that! Lots of work to do with this machine in the meantime :)
Will the machine give you a different code if you preheat the case?
$1500.... I have to pass
I'm with you. It seems he is reviewing nothing but the gucci equipment almost no handloader except the most serious (BPCR guys, F-class, service rifle etc...) shooters would have.
This is only for the rich !!!!!!
Way over the average reloader !!
Didn’t even watch the video, Gaven, how about us normal people.
Salt bath annealing is cheaper and arguably just as effective.
Salt bath annealing works just as well and as quickly. It's just not as convenient and messier. Of course, AMP will tell you it sucks LOL. The results at the range along with brass consistency and longevity speak for themselves.
Dean Hudson yes it is. It starts out as a solid then heats up to a liquid. After you’re done it returns to a white salt block.
Time to get the case feeder!
Great overview of the machine.
No doubt at all that it's a brilliant annealer, but more importantly, I cannot wait to see if that annealing has any accuracy effect on new or aged brass.
Hope you will split the brass into 2 batches of annealed and non-annealed each for brass age / batch for a fair test.
These machines are a significant investment and it would be great to see what if any difference it makes in the real world, and at what distance any effects are noticeable, before committing.
Kevin- good idea on the content! I'll also be doing longevity tests to see how annealing impacts brass life...
@Kevin Adam - I anneal with the AMP MkII after every firing and have noticed lower SD's and about 1/4 - 1/3 better accuracy with my 6.5 CM and .308. The neck tension is consistent and that's what matters to me more than longer case life. Every time you anneal a case even if it's been fired many times, it returns to it's virgin state. The only thing that limits the life of a properly sized case is that the primer pocket will eventually give out.
Dear Gavin,happy festive days and a prosperous Newyear.I would like to know if these case pilots (where the cases get inserted to) are case specific or "mother"case specific.Or are they shoulder,neck,case length or base specific?!I got a couple wildcats of my own?(This is the reason)I got a wildcat based on the 6,5×55SM but blown out and necked down to .243 with a 35°shoulder.I also do have a 6-06AI as well as a 404 Jeffreys AI.Do I in all these cases take the normal 6,5-55SM insert or the 30-06 in case of the 6-06AI or the 404Jeffreys?
For all cases based on .308 size base like(22-250,243Win,308,30-06,7×57,6×57,6Rem.,6,5×57,7×64,8×57,9,3×62)do I use the same insert?!With all cartridges based on the old 300H&H or 375H&H (257Wby.,300H&H,300Win.,300Wby.,340Wby,375H&H,7mmSTW,458Win.,416Rem,458Lott,etc.)
Or are they case length based etc.?
I would apreciate a more clear clarification in connection with this.I am interested to purchase a machine but would like to know more detail first.
Is that thing $1400?
That is awesome. May I have it? I can totally use it.
Great review! I usually do not clean brass after firing, only using brush thru neck. Do you think it is better to clean the brass for example with ultrasonic cleaner?
Ummmm, yeah. Clean the brass man. Ultrasonic is easy. Slap the brass in and put the detergent in and then just rinse after 30 minutes in the bath. If you want it to dry fast, put it in the oven or let it dry overnight and then de prime the brass, trim it, seat a primer, load the powder and seat a bullet. If you want you can crimp the neck too.
Just get a vibratory tumbler and use treated ground walnut hulls as the media.
Tumble for 2-4 hours, sift out the media (there are lots of different media separators for this that can be gotten at reasonable prices), then load.
You can run a brush through the necks if you want, but you probably won't need to do it, as long as you change out your tumbling media every 1000 or so cases tumbled in it.
More like annealing made slow and expensive for that price they should have a automated start
Will this machine do 338 lapua? 50bmg?
Yes it will, I do 338LM with it and have seen great results with my reloads.
When are we gonna get some 6mm creedmoor reloading??? Jonesing for it my friend.
I've run into some issues with the rifle's accuracy I'm working through. Was just testing this yesterday!
Why do you anneal your brass? what measurable [statistical] evidence have you determined from your rifle builds using annealed vs. not annealed brass? ps, love your work!
It's for consistency if you don't shoot long range it's not as important other than brass life it softens the neck back up and allows you to get the same neck tension better sd's and es's it will play a big roll once you start going for 1000+ yards
Great video.
Great tool but to much expensive for some shooters ;) I use the salt bath annealing process. Redo the kit cause can get it from Canada and it works great too but need to check be between 510° and 550° C to have a good annealing, only the bad side on this system, temperature check, need 30 min to have the good temperature too. Oki, an other, be really carefull to avoid water with salt :)
I’m sorry yo have the machine that I though was another machine. It didn’t take me long after I went through the maze that it was the same machine and I have good news as it comes with other machine that work with it. I could see that you may use it as another section and talk about it later. Neat machine non the less.
Do a giveaway for this machine.
I’m planning one for this coming year! Stay tuned...
@@Ultimatereloader you da man Gavin,! Great content you present. 🇺🇸👍😎Thanks
I think I'll have to save up some more coins for this. Great video and info for me to chew on.
Thanks Anthony- worth the investment!
Hey hey hey 👍the best in the business should I say in the world
Early again, just before 9pm uk time.
Welcome, from what city/town are you viewing?
Hi Gavin, 28 miles south if Birmingham. Just finished work at my reloading bench and opened up you tube at my favourite presenter.
Thank you David- you are too kind! :) My family is from the Cornwall / Tiverton area, at least on the "Gear" side of the family :)
How long will it take to do a 5 gallon bucket of 223? lol
Ask my kids!!!!! haha.
I’ll pass I prefer the Annealeez Gen 2 machine for $275.00 Much more economical and you can place a 200 cases, the difference is uses a small camping propane canister tank but You have deep pockets them buy AMP Mark ll $1,500
you only need to press the start once you sossage 😄
Gavin = Billy Mays
The subject that seems to get overlooked is the group size.
.........Everything else is equal and after 5 (or some other number) firings the brass shoots “X” with annealing and “X” without annealing.
Someday...
ok I can use it cool
I see no reason this should fetch such a hefty price.
Watch their how it's made video. :)
Yea checked the price out of my budget
$1,395.00 at Brownells... if you have money to burn, I'm sure this is the cat's meow.
Pressing the start button 2xs after every piece of brass looks annoying.
I can NOT afford that nor do I think it is much better than some of the others such as Bench Source, etc.
Who can really afford these tools you’ve been reviewing? I sure can’t. It’s good to see how far reloading equipment has develop but the point of reloading, for most, is to save money.
I produce content for people in all budget categories- and I'm showing a lot of the tools that I'm using or will be using to do serious research and provide meaningful insights about reloading to this audience. I'd invite you to view some of my content featuring the TC Compass, Kel-Tec PF-9, Budget Precision 223 Series, LEE reloading gear, etc. Lots of variety in price ranges.
gavintoobe hey Gavin. I am glad you do. I’ve been watching your vids for a long time and basically learn a lot from you. I’m also glad the industry has leapt forward but I think products like these are over kill when there are less expensive alternatives. If people can afford them by all means, they should go ahead and purchase them. Again, I think the pricing for some of these things are a bit too much and overkill.
Kito66j1 it’s like a pro camera lens or a Cummins engine in a truck- not everyone needs them or can afford them but they definitely have their place! This particular a new machine does stuff that others don’t.
@@Ultimatereloader True, but to have any kind of through-put, you need their feeding gizmo and a third party case feeder. For the price, I would expect them to provide something that's a little less tedious.
This machine is perfect, but for me, I would rather take 6000 Lapua Scenar bullets for the same price. Certainly not for everyone.
dude you look just like stephen wonderboy thompson lol
Brace yourself for the “SaLt BaTH AnEaLLinG dOEs tHe sAMe ThINg”
Haha.
I stay with a candle My bare fingers and a can with water
Way, way too expensive just to anneal brass. The Annealeze is $250.00
If you think this is a great annealing machine - look at this : ua-cam.com/video/xMPI-bmsDw8/v-deo.html
No effing way! I will stick to my Annelezz machine. I can think of a better way to piss $1500.00 down the drain.
Its a great product which we all would like to have. That being said 90 percent of the viewers could never afford this. 1,500 to anneal brass ??? Do some videos on what an every day 9-5 working man would have. Not life styles of the rich n famous.. You are out of touch with your viewers.
Please take a look at my video library- TC Compass Review, LEE Reloading Equipment, Budget Precision 223, ..., ..., ..., ... My goal is to show as much variety of tools as possible- cheap, mid-grade, and expensive. Do you not watch Top Gear because they show Ferarris? :)
Also- I'm doing research and sharing my data with my viewers. Real research demands real tools. I realize not everyone is doing that, but competitive shooters and researchers need top-quality tools.
Would you do avideo on when to trek over to the dark side of reloading ; )
I like your channel and topics. But they seem more like Sunday morning TV infomercials than reviews. Not mentioning the numerous times you promised a topic that never come out. Infomercials and clickbait should not be part of serious channel content.
No disrespect intended, just constructive comment …
1400 bucks! I will stick to the drill gun and torch. I would rather buy a gun fir that price.