Regarding the locktite method. I always pop the primer out. This allows air to escape out of the back of the case when the bullet is seated in the lands. Stops loctite from seeping out of the case neck into the chamber of the rifle.
My method is actually the last one that Travis showed. The one where you let the lands push bullet in. But it is neck tension dependent. I also put die wax in bullet ogive to prevent it from sticking in the lands. The method of seating bullet deeper and deeper until bolt closes is the Alex Wheeler method. As you said, there are a tons of ways to measure this. Multiple ways to remove outer layer from feline. 😁
Not a comment for Erik (he clearly knows what he is doing), but a comment on his process. I suspect the benefits of either the second (loctite) or third (Erik Cortina... or similar Alex Wheeler method) is consistency/repeatability in that in the second and third, it is a combination of the camming action of the bolt plus whatever you neck tension is. If you are good at consistent neck tension, then you should get repeatable results. For the first, when using the rod to push the bullet in, that level of force is variable from one person to another and maybe even from one test to another from the same person. I personally use the Alex Wheeler method and have found it to be very repeatable while the rod method is not. The downside of the Wheeler method is you have to do things like remove the extractor, etc. from the bolt because the ONLY force you want to feel is that of the bullet touching, barely touching or not touching the lands as you close the bolt (and not compressing an extractor spring for example). It also requires a bolt that closes easily/smoothly. Lastly, I can imagine using the bolt to seat the bullet vs. the Alex Wheeler method maybe creating different measurements because using the bolt to seat the bullet, is pushing you slightly into the lands, while the Wheeler method may allow you to measure where the lands are just touching. I should probably give Erik's method a try as it might be easier to do in the long run.
EXCELLENT video - that cutaway shows with complete clarity how a cartridge and bullet sit in the chamber with the tolerances that reloaders talk about. As a raw beginner, that first 4 minutes utterly crystallised so much that I've been trying to understand from books. Many Thanks from the UK.
I started reloading in the early 60’s before oal comparators, with all my knowledge coming from reloading books and magazines, totally absorbed into shooting and reloading. Early on, I started trying multiple methods, some discussed here, but I found that if you just took whatever bullet you were going to use, drop it down the bore and just tap it lightly to jam the lands, I took a wooden dowel, advanced down the muzzle till it touched the bullet, then make a mark on the dowel with a sharp pencil at muzzle, then push bullet out of the barrel with the dowel, remove bullet, close the bolt , push dowel till it is up against bolt face, then remove dowel. Measuring the distance with my trusty Craftsman dial caliper precisely gives me my max coal for that particular bullet. I would then and now, especially it seems with all Berger bullets, they do better with up to .080 of jump. This easy method has always worked for me. I would like to have one of those nice Delrin rods though. Would seem to be perfect to use for same method.
Great method. To me its finding the accurate seating depth, not the lands. I let the target tell me where to seat the bullet when working up a load. I think many of them have a good sized jump. Or not. lol
Loctite method seems fine. You can then use a sharpie to write the length right on the case, and keep the whole thing as a reference forever. Ideal. Thanks for bringing this to us.
@@John_Redcorn_ Ah! What a treasure trove I'd have if I could have every note and slip of paper I ever wrote something on (and remembered what the hell it meant). But I don't. "Writing things down" is a great idea -- that VERY often doesn't amount to much, lol.
@@John_Redcorn_ LOL. I'm left to wonder just WTF is wrong with you. I gave my idea of how I'd like to do something, and you feel a need to come along to say "No. You should do this instead." Not with the claim of an insight into a better way, and therefore that your way is better, but (seemingly) just to say "Do it my way instead of your way." Good luck with your fucking journal -- perhaps one day you'll have the urge to stick it up your ass! As for me, I prefer a direct object clearly on display (or put in a small drawer specifically for such types of objects) rather than a written DESCRIPTION of the same object, which, to be always available would have to be indexed and catalogued in such a way that the information can be retrieved.
ONE CRITICAL THING WITH THE LOCTITE. you need to de-prime the brass! If not, the air inside the case will push out the loctite into the chamber. dont ask me how i know this..
I haven' tried this method but was thinking the same. We use those anaerobic adhesives on a great many things in my trade and some of them are no joke. Since they put this to the masses they should have spent much more time on it and emphasized which ones to use and exactly how to do it with no fudge room.
I’ve used a brass rod and two locking collars. You close the bolt and insert the rod to the bolt face and set a collar at the barrel end. Then insert a bullet and use a pencil or rod to hold pressure on the bullet from the action end. Insert the rod to the bullet tip and set another collar. Measure between them and you have your jam. But Eric’s method is much simpler.
I like this way. I have tried the modified case but didn’t really like it so I just got this one do come up the the same theory as yours. “Frankford Arsenal Cartridge Overall Length Gage”. I like your idea with brass rod and lock rings. I’ll have to find your components and check it out.
Gavin, that's the first and best visual demonstration I've seen on this subject. I really liked it, you guys. Maybe another video on where factory ammo is set and the difference of the precise measurement and effects of the differences on performance and barrel ?
On my race pistol got a neat cutaway realy quick. Once.neet to see how chamber reamer worked well. Going deeper when groups got bad . Nothing loose now . go Deeper.got very good groups. Do em all long now. This sport got to be an " arms race"
Great information for reloaders, even if we are not building a rifle or taking our reloading to that degree. Understanding this and seeing it really helps to understand how everything really works together for accuracy!
When using the OAL gauge, try using this with the rifle in a vertical position. What this does by having the muzzle pointing upwards, you can lightly lift the bullet to the contact point and not jam the bullet into the lands. If your bullet is sticking into the lands, you really have no idea how deep that is going.
I agree with Eriks method and have used it for some 40+ years, I do however use a modified version of that for super super exact loadings, What I do for those is I use my normal push back method and add to it by blackening the bullet with a sharpie or carbon black. I insert the test cartridge, close the bolt and note the land marks on the bullet after it has been pushed back. I then repeat 3 x and note the lengths....depending on the marks of the lands on the bullet will let u judge on whether or not your 3 bullets are seating on the lands consistently and with the same force. Always always always measure your length consistencies exactly like you showed in the video, using the apex of the bullet ogive. Beginning shooters might want to measure from the bullet tip but NEVER NEVER do it as tip profiles in the same batch of bullets can vary significantly, the ogive or slope profiles never changes at least in the same lot of bullets......Use a diffrent lot......start all over..... Just saying !!!!!!!
I’ve used the sharpie method for several decades, but bought hornady’s oal gauge 3-4 years back. I made my own dummy cases (fired in my chambers) and bored and tapped on my lathe. I use a hardwood dowel in conjunction with the gauge to push the bullet back and forth to get a good feel for the contact of the bullet and the lands.
Thanks for the ongoing videos. Great stuff. I will say I have driven myself crazy trying to get consistent readings with the OAL gauge. (Especially true with VLD bullets.) TINY variances in pressure on the push rod change the distance to the lands a fair bit. It’s a hassle to remove the firing pin and ejector button (Wheeler method) or Barrel for the fingernail lift method (Mark Gordon method, explained in the Precision Rifle Blog), but I have found these methods very consistent.
I use a cleaning rod with a jag that's filed smooth at the end. On the rod, I placed two nylon bushings. With the bolt closed, I run the rod to the bolt face and the two bushings to the muzzle end. I then put a bullet in the chamber and push it forward until it touches the lands. Holding the bullet in place, I run the cleaning rod until it touches the tip of the bullet and position the second bushing closest to the muzzle against the muzzle end. Measure the length from the beginning of one bushing to end of second one. The OAL from the bolt face to the lands is the measured length minus the total length of the two bushings.
I originally used the last method but got tired of having bullets stuck in the barrel and starting over.. then i used the hornady gauge method.. from now on i will start using the loctite method. I like the idea of having a hard copy of each specific bullet/chamber combo i reload for. Going to loctite it in then laser engrave the bullet/rifle combo on the case! Thanks gavin
Gavin I do two things. I use a fire formed case. Next I take out the firing pin and the extractor out of the bolt. Then I put the case and bolt in the gun. If the bolt does not fall closed freely closed I will bump the shoulder of the case .0005 how ever many times it takes until the bolt falls closed. When that part is done the most free clearance you will have with the case is .00045. Then I start the same prosses over with the bullet. I will start with a measurement using the Hornaday gauge. Then I put the case and bullet in the gun. If the bolt does not fall closed then I will seat the bullet by .002 to .003 at a time. You will know when your about perfect. The bolt will start to fall half way then 2/3. At this point I go to .0005 seating change. When the bolt falls closed you will never be more than .00045 off the lands for that bullet batch #. The only reason for doing this is to know that exact length the bullet ogive touches the lands. I've been shooting bench from 1968 to know. The truth of the matter is the way you showed it the video works the same as I've done. Now matter how you find the lands we all start seating bullets + or - from the measurement we both got from our method we used to find the node the gun shoots at. I will say one thing. I made a tool using a seating die plunge and a dial indicator and comp to check ogive to tip of bullet where the plunger sits. I then write this down and check any other bullet I choose. Using math any other bullet I use I will know where to seat the bullet to start making up a new load just off the lands. I love your work keep it up. I built my first rifle in 1978 22PPC. One other thing, the tool I made and the seating die I use for any give caliber I had reamers made to redo there inside where the bullet hit so they are exactly the same. Good luck Rick D.
Dear Richard, I think you may have the decimal point in the wrong place. Also it is not poss to measure that accurately with a calliper , 0.0005 i.e. Half a thousandth at real best. Regards
@@redhunterknives6675 My dies are able to bump a half thousandth at a time or .0005 my first bump on a fire formed brass is .0015. The point was find just off the lands. If your bolt does not fall closed by it self (no firing pin or extractor) after you know the shoulder of case is not at fault, then your bullet is still touching the lands. PS .0005 is a half thousandth. All my chambers In my bench guns are custom. I use Dave Manson reamers that I have ground to my specs. .0005 +.0005= .001 Shoot tight groups.
I always used the modified case that Hornady sales and their OAL tool until I seen the video on how Eric Cortina's does it. He even says he lubes the bullet with sizing die wax to help keep the bullet from sticking and it works really good with bolt action rifles. I still use the Hornady modified case method when I'm working up a load on AR15s. Great video as always keepem coming guys!!!
Cheap trick: Glue the bullet in the casing, load it before the glue has dried, wait for it to dry, pull out. Put it in bullet seating dye, adjust the dye until you feel resistance.
When I was getting started I would lightly tap a fired case neck on the bench it would provide enough resistance to let the bullet slide into the lands but also allow it to come out. I would do it 3 times to ensure consistency.
Just starting to get into hand loading and it is easy to get lost in the weeds… This video is. very helpful. How do you approach initial cartridge length measurements for a new system? Imagine new rifle, brass, etc… for the initial firing of new brass, the recommended approach is to seat the bullets at the lands… I understand that it is critical to get a measurement from the bolt face to the lands which the gauge method cannot provide. The difference between the gauge measurement and the bolt methods implies extra headspace even on a fired case… it has been mentioned elsewhere that it can take more than a single firing for a case to fully expand to the chamber dimension and there should be some spring back expected as well. Keep up the great work!
Using the OAL gauge, you're pushing the bullet into the lands, whereas with the other methods, you're not. That is why you're seeing a difference. I've learned to use the gauge and NOT push so hard. Push until you meet resistance then release and then lock the push bar in place. I find that you will see the same kind of measurements as the locktite method.
That's why I want to find my O.A.L. with a fire formed case and resized with just enough neck tension to hold the projectile in place so I'm not jamming it into the lands, just touching. But at the same time I'm not putting to little neck tension so that when I hit it with calipers, it doesn't push the bullet inside the case. I do that 3 times and measure 3 times. If the measurements are the same or pretty close +/- .001 I know I'm good. If the measurements are off, then I know the neck tension is to tight because If the first measurement is 3.290" and the next is 3.330 that means the lands are grabbing the bullet....The bullet shape could be off that much BUT I doubt it.
You can also use some graphite dry lube on the part of the bullet that makes contact with the lands (Ogive) to help prevent the bullet from sticking in your bore.
I've used Travis' method for years. I recently picked up the Hornady tool and haven't quite tested it like you guys but it's interesting to see that the bullet can be pushed further in and logically that makes sense. Thanks for the videos guys!
For 40 years I have held an unloaded case above a candle to get a good sooty effect. Close the bolt gently, extract, and see if you are touching the lands, and by how much. Seat bullet slightly deeper and repeat the process. When the bolt closes easily and there is only the lightest mark of the lands, you know you are good to go to calculate further seating depth. This may be too inaccurate for the most exacting bench-rest shooters, but it gives me one-hole groups from my .222 Rem. I also prefer to headspace using the bolt rather than the shoulder of the cartridge.
I started this modest little reloading channel myself, for beginners to cover things I didn't understand and were difficult to find. I just started precision, magnum reloading for a 300 PRC and 6.5 PRC. I'm going to share this on my channel and I really appreciate you guys demonstrating the importance of OAL measuring and using such a visually descriptive method to show this. I'm learning more and more myself and I happen to be at this step, as the .300 PRC seems to be VERY finicky about Ammo. I'm realizing that using book load data was giving me 0.0945" of jump on the 212 grain ELD-X and 0.215" of jump on the 250 grain A-tips.
I learned to reload on the 6.5 prc and recently the 300 prc. the long jump is typical on magazine fed rounds. To get the bullets up to touchpoint, with the new longer bullets, they won't fit in the magazine. Fortunately there are some good nodes at long jumps. As the throat erodes you may have to adjust seating depth. The long bearing surfaces seem to keep these new long bullets lined up despite the long jump until engagement of the lands.
I used to sharpie mark the ogive and look for land marks on the bullet. I've since been using the Hornady OAL gauge and I find the OAL gauge much easier and more accurate on my .223 and .308.
Very enlightening. Well done. One comment: (at 2:58 timestamp) It was stated that the ogive is being compressed. It. Is VERY difficult (darn near impossible) to compress metal. Metal is actually being moved (i.e., making burrs in the bullet) by contact with the rifling. This point may seem trivial to some, and is often misunderstood by laymen.
Awesome video. I wanted to save some money for projectiles and powder so I took a case and instead of a full resize I just gave it enough to hold on to the projectile. Not too tight, but not enough to pull out. Paint with a sharpie and push it in and lock it down. I ran it multiple times to verify the bullet wasn’t pulling back out as I have had that happen in early stages. But just like you guys said pick a method and stick with it because you can get varying numbers different ways. Biggest thjng is making sure when you bring the dummy round back out, the rifling hasn’t pulled the bullet out. Sharpy helps you see that!
I use the OAL gage for all my reloading- it is what I learned so I bought my own gage and cases and use it to establish starting points for my various rifles.
I use a partially sized case, I only size about 1/16 - 1/8 inch of the case mouth. This way the bullet slides into case a bit easier so the bullet is less apt to stick into the rifling. My cast bullet loads take a bit more care on the neck tension. I'll repeat this check several times to average out the measurement, then set a bullet a bit long then using a sharpie on the bullet and progressively seat deeper till I find a length to just mark the place that the bullet fully seals to the throat.
Also...for those considering the Hornady gauge, if you send Hornady two fired unsized cases, they will modify your case and send it back to you for $15. I got mine back in about two weeks.
@@ivymike3459 The tap is 5/16-36tpi - You can get them from McMaster-Carr and probably other places that sell machinist tooling. You will likely not find it at the local hardware store.
I use the OAL method with their factory cases. My problem with that tool is you never get the same reading twice so I take 5 reading and take the average of the closes setting. I'm going to try the Locktite method as that seems like it would be very accurate. Would like to have seen you take multiple reading of each type to see if you get the same reading (or close) every time.
Same, I always take 5 readings with it as well, I find the first one or two are off and then the rest are pretty consistent, I usually blame myself tbh
I use the oal and get the same reading. My problem is when I seat my bullet with my die i keep getting different lengths I'm using match dies everything is tight and secure. Any thoughts?
@@jeremydunn5903 call the die manufacturer and ask how to properly use it. They should have a support line. Get it from them rather than.. " um, ah " suggestions. This shit ain't funny when things go wrong.
One issue with using the close the bolt method is that the seating depth might be increased by the pressure of the bolt. Furthermore, then when the bolt is retracted the bullet might ease out slightly from the case. It would seem the loktite method provides a good maintain of the bullet in the case. But I cringe at any red loktite in my chamber!
For cheap people like myself, you can buy steel wire the diameter of the primer hole and a lock collar the same diameter for a couple of bucks at a hardware store. No need to modify the case. I prefer the loctite version because it incorporates the bolt into the solution. Seems to be the most accurate method in my mind. Thanks for the video. Very good info
Very Good Information. I love the third method (that I have always used) since it requires no special devices or tools and it is easy IF you are shooting different weights, lengths and ogive geometry, Use a once-fired case, tension the neck ONLY and let the lands seat the bullet. Important that you are careful that the land tension does not pull the bullet out of seating during the extraction of the test cartridge. Perform this a few times and look for consistency. I love watching your knowledge evolve Gavin; its evident form early the early vids to the latest. Shoot on!
Method number 4: Seat to the max length of your clip... unless you want to single load every bullet... which I don't want to do. Zero the micrometer on your Forster seating die (if you have one)... Set the max length of your cartridge(to your clip), then lock the lock ring down on your die and call it good! You can make a longer drop in bullet using the adjustment on your micrometer if you want to get closer to the lands and or you can buy a second Lee seating die for seating the longer rounds.
I used to use the hornady tool with modified cases, but swapped over to the wheeler method a couple years ago. Just seemed the most consistent. Also amazing how many people I have seen with the hornday gauge backwards on the caliper. Not difficult to put the screw in the right side so the gauge is centered to the caliper blade.
I did the Hornady gauge and the black sharpie method and then split the difference for my 28 Nosler.I figured .006 off for the Berger VLDs I'm shooting and I have no problem shooting at any target.Once I got my Kilo 2400 set up I'm shooting out to 1500 no problem.Gone as far as 1870 and made hits.
Cracking video lads. The risk with using the bolt to 'press' the bullet into the lands is that when you lift/retract the bolt you may pull the bullet back out of the case a little (if it is snug in the lands) this would gove a false reading and you would never know it had happened. If you colour the 'whole' of the bullet with a sharpie pen, "then' carry out the bolt press method, not only will you get lands markings, but you will also see any bullet extraction that may occur as there would be a clean ring just above the neck where the bullet had been dragged back out of the case a little. Also, as somebody mentions below, a tiny smear of case lube on the ogive may be a good idea.
The third method seems the easiest and fastest to do. just load a case with a loose bullet in the chamber and close the bolt. The great thing I can see about this one is that I could quickly do it as I am setting up my press for a loading session for a whole batch of a particular bullet. Then when you change to a different bullet type, quickly do the same
I use a Hornady gauge and their case which works fine. I’ve shot as tight as a .422” 5 shot group @100 yards with my 300 PRC using a Berger 230gr match bullet -.025” off the lands all measured with the Hornady gauge.
I use the seating die and a resized empty unprimed case. In increments bullet seating further out until it does not chamber and I get rifling/lands marks on the bullet or the opposite and seating further down until it does chamber and no marks are visible but this takes a number of new unmarked bullets. Then I back it off to my desired COL. As stated, bullet type makes a big difference and results are based on each bullet type. I don't get stuck bullets in the lands this way since the bullet is seated. I only do it to know my chamber size. I do not chase the lands like I used to. Some rifles do not like it close to the lands while others do so I shoot different COL loads until I find the "sweet" chamber spot or accuracy node and that sweet spot will change between types of bullets and over time throat erosion. I have a .223 chamber that absolutely hates bullets close to the lands for that short jump. It likes a long jump to hit its best accuracy. Same for a .22-250 chamber.
@@50Quid-d3x I have a Remington 700 BDL .222 or Triple 2 that likes it close to the lands with 55gr. Nosler ballistic tips. That load will shoot a five shot group through the same hole (without making the hole bigger) at 100 yards.
I take a fired case and neck size only. I then use a dremel with a cut off wheel and cut two slots from the case mouth to the shoulder in a straight line with the cartridge and 180 degees from each other. Then deburr the slots. This allows the bullet to be pushed in when chambering. The bullet touches the lands and the tension holds the bullet enough to remove cartridge and check seating depth. Works well and can be used with any bullet over and over again
Without a wordy description, I use the method described in the Speer manual I got back in 1989 when my reloading journey began. I have only modified It slightly over the years but didn’t change the overall method it works for me.
Love using the last method that Travis showed. Very simple and works great. Regardless of what method is used - CONSISTANCY is the most important factor - choose a method and stick with it.
I was shown to use the OAL gauge and the rod down the barrel together, so you push the case into the chamber, then using both rods "feel" for the lands with as little force as possible. When you have it lock the OAL and remove. Do this 3 times and compare results. Seems to work fine.
Minimizing jump/finding the lands is one of the more persistent myths (IMO). I was a full on adherent until reading an article back in 2016 that indicated that not all bullets, particularly the newer VLD/ELD designs, responded well to that approach and actually gave better results with more jump. Having acquired a megnetospeed to fine tune my 6.5/RPR loads (never really trusted my Chrony), I set up a test with my, to that point, most accurate load. The change I made was to set the COAL at the 'book' value in the loading manual using Hornady's ELD-M bullet. I then setup of 5 shot loads of incremental COAL increase/Decrease from that point of .001 changes until the COAL maxed out "at the Lands" limit I had previously established with a dummy round. What I found was that the RPR/ELD-M had a very specific 'range' that gave best SD/ES and accuracy and it was NOT anywhere close to the lands. It was a range of approx .003" around the book COAL which was astonishing to me have 'grown' up reloading for over 35 years at that point, believing that best accuracy was ALWAYS found seating the bullet out close to the lands. This did not change when my barrel went past its 'speed bump' that most go through around 300 rounds or so. Like any load customization, what your particular rifle likes is going to be very individual, so really anyone's 'best load' is pretty much an ancedotal one off for that rifle/component combination. But before anyone goes all in on the "get as close to the lands as you can" paradigm, test your rifle with a good chronogrpah like the Magnetospeed or Labradar and spend some time testing various COAL setups. You might be surprised by what you find. IMO - YMMV
A couple of decades ago when I was REALLY into making the best ammo I could, I used Sinclair’s comparator. It’s similar in that it uses the bullet in the chamber, take a measurement. Runs fired case in and take a measurement then subtract the part of the bullet that will be in the neck and measure the over all length. I would prefer to measure off of the olive but their option was full length, bullet seated. I really like that Loctite method for the shooting I do now. Thanks, Jeff
Gavin, I use the Hornady gauge, but I do a simple correction using the Hornady case headspace gauges), I measure the headspace dimension of the Hornady drilled & tapped gauge case vs. one of my fire-formed case from my rifle. I apply that headspace correction to the base-to-ogive dimension I measure with the Hornady COAL gauge, which gives me the base-to-ogive length for MY brass. Sure, I could drill & tap my good brass, but simply applying the delta of the headspace length between Hornady's inexpensive gauge case and my fired/resized cases lets me keep my brass for shooting. The Hornady gauge cases cost about the same as a cup of coffee, so not having to set up my lathe for drilling and tapping (using a Wilson case length gauge as a chuck) is worth it!
TIP: for the Hornady bullet comparator; I just measured 3 different 223 bullets of different weights and manufacturers and found a total of CBTO variance of some .030. All bullets must have identical O'Gives. Then I removed the plastic plunger and filed down the rounded end into a more pointed end and remeasured a 3 bullets again @ 8 each and found the new total variance of the same bullets to be .010. In two of the bullets the CBTO variance was less than 5%. Very accurate now. My conclusion is the bullet bases are not 100% perpendicular to the concentricity of the bullet and the plastic plunger end is too large to get an accurate reading on a small point from the base of the bullets. This was all done in a brand-new JC Custom barrel just purchased and not installed. I wish Hornady would install a smaller metal pointed end on their plunger for a little extra money.
Sinclair OAL gauge does not get enough love. Takes a bit of math to calc the base to ogive, but results are consistent and no need for a modified case. Great video though!
I think on the last method where you have a seated bullet long and then close the bolt on it you need to make sure that you don't have a lot of neck tension.
I have been using the Sinclair COL guage now for 7 years and it gives an exact measurement every time and does not require modified cases or anything like that. I have found it to be the way to go. I am a 1000yd benchrest competition shooter and its my way for both my 6bra light gun and 7saum unlimited gun
On my Tika T3 223 stainless... I seat to the max length of the clip and sometimes maybe a little more on the first drop in round. I can cut a Grove in the front of the clip... to get closer to the jam point, if I want. The jam point makes the finished rounds to long... regardless of accuracy. My rifle is extreemly accurate even with box ammo so no need to jam into the lands.
For those using the Hornady/Stoney Point gauge method it's great if you can drill and tap a spent case from your own gun as the gauge. If all you have is the one supplied by Hornady then just measure the difference in headspace between a spent case from your own gun (primer removed), and their gauge. Account for the difference with the Hornady case measurement.
I've used the first two, but until now hadn't thought about the third method! And I like that 3rd idea and will test it in my rifle. By the way, I am not a competition shooter, I just like to be as good as I can while hunting. Thank you so much for sharing 🙂
Before I knew about the Hornady oal guage I made a tool using a fired case. I drilled thru the primer pocket and silver soldered a small diameter brass tube about 10in long I found at (I think) hobby lobby. Towards the end of the tube away from the brass shell I drilled a hole and silver soldered a small nut. I used a welding rod with a glued on plastic tip as the plunger. For the lock at the rear I used a small screw that I soldered a T handle. With the bolt removed I drop a bullet in the chamber. I insert my tool and push the plunger on the bullet. Then, I lock the rod with the screw. I use a cleaning rod to disengage the bullet from the rifling. I insert the bullet in to my oal guage then measure with a dial caliper. I cut the neck a tad into the shoulder. This way I use 1 set up for 308, 708, and 243. I have another set up for my '06. It's interesting how there is so much variance in manufacturing bullets so I measure at least 10 then average the 0 lash oal measurement. If I was to compete I would measure every bullet and batch them. I just hunt with my loads but love to have the most accurate set up I can get without doing the whole case weighing, neck turning, etc thing. I keep playing with the OAL and powders til I get a clover leaf at 100yds. Great video. The reason I made my tool was that in the 'sharpie the bullet, insert bullet and brass into chamber and lock the bolt' technique, the bullet always got stuck. I figured if it even got stuck a little I would get an erroneous oal measurement.
I have used the method of using a shot cartridge and sliding bullet in chamber. Then use bolt to push cartridge to seat bullet. Remove bolt and measure. On remington riffles, I have found a lot of free bore. Not able to seat bullet out to lands and still fit in magazine. But with that said, my 300 rem mag set to factory length is a true tack driver. At 100 yds, I can literally hit the head of a tack. I have taken several deer at 800+ yd. I've actually watched deer fall in scope when pulled trigger at those distance. I've tried on few savage and it seems their free bore is less. But as far as accuracy, each manufacturer seems to do well.
I also use the 3ed method, but I very lightly tighten up the very end of the neck with my die set so the bullet won't stick in the barrel, I also use a black marker to see the rifling. 👍
I use a sharpie and colour the bullet ogive on a dummy fired round in that chamber seated long in a case with very slight neck tension.The sharpie will show the engraving of the rifling.Very carefully remove the dummy round then measure.I usually do this three times to check for varibles.This has worked for the last 40 years for me.Then I seat the bullets .010 deeper to start my load ladder.When I have determined my best load I will then seat in incriments of .005 deeper for another load ladder until I have found my best accuracy....Good video
The loctite method works like a damn charm. Feel like I owe you money for that tip. I bought an old hall action benchrest rifle chambered in 6ppc .262 neck. However there was zero info on the chamber, gunsmith, and so on and zero items included with the rifle at auction. Barrel was new never fired action/ bolt also never fired so a deal I couldn’t turn down but trying to load for something like that with no info on chamber/seating specs kinda intimidating. That barrel my have been put on the action 30 plus years ago for all I know But having the exact depth for touching the lands helps a lot. Thanks!!
Thanks for the video! Getting the same results w/ loctite & jamming the bullet into the case does not make sense to me. Personally I will continue to use the OAL gauge and experiment with a force gauge to push on the rod.
I use the Hornady AOL gauge and light fingertip pressure. I'm not shooting benchers, but I do like to work on improving precision in my hunting rifles. Did I miss where you told us what drill and tap to use to make our own modified cases?
My method is the last one shown right down to the sharpie or black soot to mark the projectile. Bullet brand and model gets written down in my note book along with OAL for ease of setting up seating die the next time I use that particular projectile. I use this for all of my rifles and all of my single shot handguns chambered in rifle calibers....very repeatable and easy to do without the need for additional tooling. Will be teaching this to a new shooter next week when he brings his .308 win and loading gear to me for his first time experiencing the joys of handloading good ammunition.
Fired case. Tap neck to slightly flatten mouth of case. Cover bullet with Sharpie ink. Seat bullet in case by hand (long) so neck holds bullet. Slowly chamber round until bolt closes. Open bolt and remove round. If bullet stuck in bore, tap it out carefully. Flat edge of case neck will have removed Sharpie ink on bullet. Reseat bullet in case up to end of Sharpie scratch. Measure. Repeat a couple of times to ensure consistency. Been doing this for 25 years, until I was given an OAL gauge. Results are the same.
That's not the way I understood his video, I think he sizes his brass the same way he always does, with. 002 bump but sans powder and primer, that way its consistent.
I got a Ruger Hawkeye LRTin 6.5 PRC because I didn't want to spend TONS of $$ just getting started in long range target work and it was familiar to me as I had used a Ruger 77 Varmint in .308 and 77 in 30.06 when I got started in reloading in the early 1980s. I use the Hornady OAL gage for 6.5 PRC. I have fire-formed Hornady and Gunwerks brass with the drilled/tapped primer pocket. I think I'll try a half dozen measurements to check for consistency in my "feel" for the lands. After watching the video, I may just try the Loctite method and compare. I THINK I may get more consistent results with the Loctite. I'll probably burn out the barrel by the time I've answered all my questions on powders, bullet selection, seating depth. FYI - favorite load using Gunwerks brass SEEMS to be: SMK 142gr bullet set-back 0.012, H1000 powder (50.1gr), Federal LR match primers. I am starting to use Hornady brass because Gunwerks or ADG brass is unobtainium in 6.5 PRC.
I use the Johnny's Reloading method, resize your brass then with a drimal cut the neck. There's enough neck tension for the bullet to slide and repeat the process as many times as possible to get your average
I use a variant of #2 and 3. I take a neck sized cartridge, cut one or two slits down the neck with a Dremel and then chamber it. It has a little more give with the cut(s) and works well for me.
It's also my experience that the Hornady tool gives you a longer length. I got longer length with the modified cartridge they sell, so I made my own, same results up to .020 off. It was dependent on how much pressure I applied to the rod. Which is next to impossible to duplicate. Gave the whole setup away. I went back to using a resized case with whiteout on the bullet for witness marks. I then seat a bullet -.005 from that measurement repeat the process with dry erase on the ogive to verify no lands marks.
I always use cerrosafe and make a casting of the chamber. That will tell you exactly where the lands are. The methods shown here will tell you the c.o.a.l. with a particular bullet. Change the weight or brand of bullet and the c.o.a.l. changes and you have to do this all over again if you change bullet weights or manufacturers. Not every 150 grain bullet has the same dimensions one manufacturer to the next! Casting the chamber is a one time thing! Then you know with ANY bullet weight or brand where the lands are and you can measure freebore by casting too! As well as the dimensions of your chamber so you can check for other things like throat erosion as well!
Been using the OAL gauges and have always done it the exact same way every time so I'm hopefully consistent there. However a bullet specific dummy set up to the lands would be a time saver and is clearly accurate as shown. Might have to dig out the red loktite
I’ll be using the Loctite retaining compound or the 290 adhesive. If you use the 290, BEWARE! It’s a wicking adhesive, use a very small amount smeared IN the case. If it leaks out it’ll glue the case and bullet in place. Once you get them out, there will be a hardened film adhered in your chamber.
Excellent video Gavin and Travis. I use the Alex Wheeler method for bullet seating and the Erik Cortina method for finding head space and setting up my FL sizing dies.
This is such a great video So well done. The cut away of the chamber is priceless. This is the only channel you can see this very special content. This video is a game changer
I have the Hornady OAL gauge, but have stoppe using it in favor af a fired case with a small slit Dremeled into one side of the neck. I thin pinch that just a tough to provide from friction to the bullet, put the bullet just barely into the neck and then chamber the case/bullet. When I extract the case, the bullet comes with and I just have to be careful to not let the case fly out. I then take my measurements (being careful not to put excessive pressure on the bullet) and I'm done.
I use the Hornady gage but I don’t push it in. Buy hand I gently turn the barrel down so it’s straight down then let the rod down easy that way gravity is the only push
I use a very similar process as the 3rd one he showed. The only difference is I take a very thin Emery cutting wheel and cut the neck to relieve some of the tension from the size case.
I use the same as you... It's very simple and easy to do. But I usually paint the bullet with a white board pen, just to see if the bullet was pushed out when you extract the case!
Have also used stick down the barrel and one behind the bullet, feel when bullet touches and mark at muzzle. Then close bolt on empty chamber and mark at muzzle again. Measure distance and get oal. Time consuming but works.
I use the hornady OAL gauge but when or if I’m trying to get a accurate load on a new cartridge and I don’t have time to wait to order a modified case I use the third method except when the bolt is stiff I will pull out the loaded cartridge and seat the bullet deeper on my press a little at a time till the bolt closes freely. It’s a little time consuming but had great success with it and you don’t get a bullet stuck in the lands.
Hi guys liked your Video! I use gel superglue in a fired case with no primer then I push the bolt down quick easy and very effective that then goes into my caliber specific box for that type of bullet if I choose to use same gun different bullet I repeat the step. Easy painless and super effective put gel inside of neck in case then your bullet load the round in push the bolt down wait 5-7 min boom 🤯 done 👍🏻
I’m Trying to put a load together for my 300 Win Mag. 190 grain accubond long range with RL 17 I tried 67,68,69 grains can’t get them to group up at 100 yards.I’m at 3.442 on the lands went to 3.412 and started there. Just curious any ideas?
last method is fastest to a result in the .001range of other methods, easy choice due to johny's reloading bench who is slightly different though conceptually close. One of the earliest things I learned was seating depth is a variation with manipulatable & testable features so start somewhere with a goal in mind and test away.
It's no wonder you were reading longer with the Hornady gauge! If you read the instructions: ------------------------------ “We recommend using no more than 3 or 4 lbs. pressure on the bullet adjustment rod (about that of a light trigger pull). Then, gently tap the bullet adjustment rod with your index finger to ensure the bullet is in light contact with the lands. The most preferred method is to use the bullet adjustment rod in one hand and a wooden dowel inserted through the muzzle in the other hand, “sandwiching” the bullet. This allows a positive feel as the bullet contacts and releases from the rifling. Remember to use the same pressure or “tapping technique” on the bullet adjustment rod each time you use the tool. Keep in mind that you can “drive” the bullet into the lands as much as .025" by using excessive pressure or a “heavy-handed” approach. The key is to find a relatively light, yet positive “touch point” of the bullet’s ogive with the origin of the rifling. It is from this “touch point” that adjustments can be made in bullet seating depth.” ------------------------------ In the video, you could see you pushing so hard you were flexing the rod! Probably using 10lb or more! For the modified case, although I have made my own, you can use the Hornady ones with just as much accuracy - simply measure the difference with a headspace comparator.
Good info. I've had differences of far more than the .025" mentioned...It likely could depend on caliber & the lengths involved. I've had .338 Lapua 300 grain Scenar give a difference of over .200" between the point it can be first felt, vs pushing until it stops (not pounding in with sledge-hammer). I jam a couple in and take measurements just to give a sense to ensure that what I feel is the actual lands, and not resistance in the tool. I've had some bullets that slide more easily than others. Berger really seem to have a hard time moving in the modified case, which makes getting a "touch point" almost impossible. The rod can also give some resistance and I've seen some suggest to sand it down a bit.
The method I use is, I will take a fire formed case, clean it with Brasso, clean my chamber and bore wipe it all down real good. I then take my fire formed brass run it up into my resizing die, (Yes....full length resizing...lol) just enough to give some neck tension because it resizes the neck first, just enough to keep the bullet from sticking in the bore, but not to much that I'm jamming the projectile into it. Seat the projectile long in my seating die (does not matter if your lock ring is tight). You're not looking for concentricity you're just looking to seat your bullet long, the bore will take care of that. I do that (measure) 2 or 3 times to make shure that when the bullet is making contact with the lands and I am unchambering my dummy round that the bullet is not being pulled out of the case. Take the OAL measurment, and experiment with jump. Different chambers and platforms like different things. There is no one jump that fits all. It's what your rifle likes to eat. Happy reloading.😁 I least like the method of fully sizing the neck and smashing the bullet into the lands. Eric Cortinas method is probably the most accurate, I could be wrong, but I think my method is a bridge between what is shown here and Eric's.
![[Don't Try This] Pushing the 308 Win to 300 Win Mag (Bat Machine, Alpha Munitions)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uXkmcpk7Brc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Don't Try This] Pushing the 308 Win to 300 Win Mag (Bat Machine, Alpha Munitions)](/img/tr.png)
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Regarding the locktite method. I always pop the primer out. This allows air to escape out of the back of the case when the bullet is seated in the lands. Stops loctite from seeping out of the case neck into the chamber of the rifle.
My method is actually the last one that Travis showed. The one where you let the lands push bullet in. But it is neck tension dependent. I also put die wax in bullet ogive to prevent it from sticking in the lands. The method of seating bullet deeper and deeper until bolt closes is the Alex Wheeler method. As you said, there are a tons of ways to measure this.
Multiple ways to remove outer layer from feline. 😁
Nice! I was surprised at how consistent this method was.
Not a comment for Erik (he clearly knows what he is doing), but a comment on his process. I suspect the benefits of either the second (loctite) or third (Erik Cortina... or similar Alex Wheeler method) is consistency/repeatability in that in the second and third, it is a combination of the camming action of the bolt plus whatever you neck tension is. If you are good at consistent neck tension, then you should get repeatable results. For the first, when using the rod to push the bullet in, that level of force is variable from one person to another and maybe even from one test to another from the same person. I personally use the Alex Wheeler method and have found it to be very repeatable while the rod method is not. The downside of the Wheeler method is you have to do things like remove the extractor, etc. from the bolt because the ONLY force you want to feel is that of the bullet touching, barely touching or not touching the lands as you close the bolt (and not compressing an extractor spring for example). It also requires a bolt that closes easily/smoothly. Lastly, I can imagine using the bolt to seat the bullet vs. the Alex Wheeler method maybe creating different measurements because using the bolt to seat the bullet, is pushing you slightly into the lands, while the Wheeler method may allow you to measure where the lands are just touching. I should probably give Erik's method a try as it might be easier to do in the long run.
Erik's method is what I've been using for the past 10yrs.
For this method, do you use form sized brass or re-sized brass ?
And the feline is much maligned. Thank YOU for sharing! I used my lighter to smoke the bullet!
EXCELLENT video - that cutaway shows with complete clarity how a cartridge and bullet sit in the chamber with the tolerances that reloaders talk about. As a raw beginner, that first 4 minutes utterly crystallised so much that I've been trying to understand from books. Many Thanks from the UK.
Yes, it was awesome
I started reloading in the early 60’s before oal comparators, with all my knowledge coming from reloading books and magazines, totally absorbed into shooting and reloading. Early on, I started trying multiple methods, some discussed here, but I found that if you just took whatever bullet you were going to use, drop it down the bore and just tap it lightly to jam the lands, I took a wooden dowel, advanced down the muzzle till it touched the bullet, then make a mark on the dowel with a sharp pencil at muzzle, then push bullet out of the barrel with the dowel, remove bullet, close the bolt , push dowel till it is up against bolt face, then remove dowel. Measuring the distance with my trusty Craftsman dial caliper precisely gives me my max coal for that particular bullet. I would then and now, especially it seems with all Berger bullets, they do better with up to .080 of jump. This easy method has always worked for me. I would like to have one of those nice Delrin rods though. Would seem to be perfect to use for same method.
I like your method!
Great method. To me its finding the accurate seating depth, not the lands. I let the target tell me where to seat the bullet when working up a load. I think many of them have a good sized jump. Or not. lol
Took a picture of your method. I would think it’s the most accurate method without special tools. Delton rods are easy to order.
This method is the only method I use.
Loctite method seems fine. You can then use a sharpie to write the length right on the case, and keep the whole thing as a reference forever. Ideal. Thanks for bringing this to us.
Exactly what I done, except I just used some regular glue instead of loctite, but then all the info is on the case
Why not just right it down in your reload book?
@@John_Redcorn_ Ah! What a treasure trove I'd have if I could have every note and slip of paper I ever wrote something on (and remembered what the hell it meant). But I don't. "Writing things down" is a great idea -- that VERY often doesn't amount to much, lol.
@@GetMeThere1 well thats why they make reload journals with places to write these things down. Lol 😂
@@John_Redcorn_ LOL. I'm left to wonder just WTF is wrong with you. I gave my idea of how I'd like to do something, and you feel a need to come along to say "No. You should do this instead." Not with the claim of an insight into a better way, and therefore that your way is better, but (seemingly) just to say "Do it my way instead of your way." Good luck with your fucking journal -- perhaps one day you'll have the urge to stick it up your ass! As for me, I prefer a direct object clearly on display (or put in a small drawer specifically for such types of objects) rather than a written DESCRIPTION of the same object, which, to be always available would have to be indexed and catalogued in such a way that the information can be retrieved.
ONE CRITICAL THING WITH THE LOCTITE.
you need to de-prime the brass! If not, the air inside the case will push out the loctite into the chamber.
dont ask me how i know this..
I haven' tried this method but was thinking the same. We use those anaerobic adhesives on a great many things in my trade and some of them are no joke. Since they put this to the masses they should have spent much more time on it and emphasized which ones to use and exactly how to do it with no fudge room.
@@indydurtdigger2867 yeah it's a mess to remove, as its like lacquer when dried. Can't be easily solved by chems either.
Thex
@@jmkhenka nail varnish remover eats loctite threadlocker
@@pj4433 Some of them yes. Others are chem resistant if not outright insoluble.
I’ve used a brass rod and two locking collars. You close the bolt and insert the rod to the bolt face and set a collar at the barrel end. Then insert a bullet and use a pencil or rod to hold pressure on the bullet from the action end. Insert the rod to the bullet tip and set another collar. Measure between them and you have your jam. But Eric’s method is much simpler.
....and remember that we just do this once to get the measurements to use to adjust seating depth.🤙
I like this way. I have tried the modified case but didn’t really like it so I just got this one do come up the the same theory as yours. “Frankford Arsenal Cartridge Overall Length Gage”. I like your idea with brass rod and lock rings. I’ll have to find your components and check it out.
Gavin, that's the first and best visual demonstration I've seen on this subject. I really liked it, you guys. Maybe another video on where factory ammo is set and the difference of the precise measurement and effects of the differences on performance and barrel ?
So cool to see a actual cutaway while you guys explain what’s going on. That definitely makes it clear what every little step on the print is for!
On my race pistol got a neat cutaway realy quick. Once.neet to see how chamber reamer worked well.
Going deeper when groups got bad . Nothing loose now . go
Deeper.got very good groups. Do em all long now. This sport got to be an " arms race"
Great information for reloaders, even if we are not building a rifle or taking our reloading to that degree. Understanding this and seeing it really helps to understand how everything really works together for accuracy!
When using the OAL gauge, try using this with the rifle in a vertical position. What this does by having the muzzle pointing upwards, you can lightly lift the bullet to the contact point and not jam the bullet into the lands. If your bullet is sticking into the lands, you really have no idea how deep that is going.
I agree with Eriks method and have used it for some 40+ years, I do however use a modified version of that for super super exact loadings, What I do for those is I use my normal push back method and add to it by blackening the bullet with a sharpie or carbon black. I insert the test cartridge, close the bolt and note the land marks on the bullet after it has been pushed back. I then repeat 3 x and note the lengths....depending on the marks of the lands on the bullet will let u judge on whether or not your 3 bullets are seating on the lands consistently and with the same force. Always always always measure your length consistencies exactly like you showed in the video, using the apex of the bullet ogive. Beginning shooters might want to measure from the bullet tip but NEVER NEVER do it as tip profiles in the same batch of bullets can vary significantly, the ogive or slope profiles never changes at least in the same lot of bullets......Use a diffrent lot......start all over..... Just saying !!!!!!!
I’ve used the sharpie method for several decades, but bought hornady’s oal gauge 3-4 years back. I made my own dummy cases (fired in my chambers) and bored and tapped on my lathe. I use a hardwood dowel in conjunction with the gauge to push the bullet back and forth to get a good feel for the contact of the bullet and the lands.
Thanks for the ongoing videos. Great stuff. I will say I have driven myself crazy trying to get consistent readings with the OAL gauge. (Especially true with VLD bullets.) TINY variances in pressure on the push rod change the distance to the lands a fair bit. It’s a hassle to remove the firing pin and ejector button (Wheeler method) or Barrel for the fingernail lift method (Mark Gordon method, explained in the Precision Rifle Blog), but I have found these methods very consistent.
I use a cleaning rod with a jag that's filed smooth at the end. On the rod, I placed two nylon bushings. With the bolt closed, I run the rod to the bolt face and the two bushings to the muzzle end. I then put a bullet in the chamber and push it forward until it touches the lands. Holding the bullet in place, I run the cleaning rod until it touches the tip of the bullet and position the second bushing closest to the muzzle against the muzzle end. Measure the length from the beginning of one bushing to end of second one. The OAL from the bolt face to the lands is the measured length minus the total length of the two bushings.
I originally used the last method but got tired of having bullets stuck in the barrel and starting over.. then i used the hornady gauge method.. from now on i will start using the loctite method. I like the idea of having a hard copy of each specific bullet/chamber combo i reload for. Going to loctite it in then laser engrave the bullet/rifle combo on the case! Thanks gavin
Gavin I do two things. I use a fire formed case. Next I take out the firing pin and the extractor out of the bolt. Then I put the case and bolt in the gun. If the bolt does not fall closed freely closed I will bump the shoulder of the case .0005 how ever many times it takes until the bolt falls closed. When that part is done the most free clearance you will have with the case is .00045. Then I start the same prosses over with the bullet. I will start with a measurement using the Hornaday gauge. Then I put the case and bullet in the gun. If the bolt does not fall closed then I will seat the bullet by .002 to .003 at a time. You will know when your about perfect. The bolt will start to fall half way then 2/3. At this point I go to .0005 seating change. When the bolt falls closed you will never be more than .00045 off the lands for that bullet batch #. The only reason for doing this is to know that exact length the bullet ogive touches the lands. I've been shooting bench from 1968 to know. The truth of the matter is the way you showed it the video works the same as I've done. Now matter how you find the lands we all start seating bullets + or - from the measurement we both got from our method we used to find the node the gun shoots at. I will say one thing. I made a tool using a seating die plunge and a dial indicator and comp to check ogive to tip of bullet where the plunger sits. I then write this down and check any other bullet I choose. Using math any other bullet I use I will know where to seat the bullet to start making up a new load just off the lands. I love your work keep it up. I built my first rifle in 1978 22PPC. One other thing, the tool I made and the seating die I use for any give caliber I had reamers made to redo there inside where the bullet hit so they are exactly the same. Good luck Rick D.
Dear Richard, I think you may have the decimal point in the wrong place. Also it is not poss to measure that accurately with a calliper , 0.0005 i.e. Half a thousandth at real best. Regards
@@redhunterknives6675 My dies are able to bump a half thousandth at a time or .0005 my first bump on a fire formed brass is .0015. The point was find just off the lands. If your bolt does not fall closed by it self (no firing pin or extractor) after you know the shoulder of case is not at fault, then your bullet is still touching the lands. PS .0005 is a half thousandth. All my chambers In my bench guns are custom. I use Dave Manson reamers that I have ground to my specs. .0005 +.0005= .001 Shoot tight groups.
I always used the modified case that Hornady sales and their OAL tool until I seen the video on how Eric Cortina's does it. He even says he lubes the bullet with sizing die wax to help keep the bullet from sticking and it works really good with bolt action rifles. I still use the Hornady modified case method when I'm working up a load on AR15s. Great video as always keepem coming guys!!!
Cheap trick: Glue the bullet in the casing, load it before the glue has dried, wait for it to dry, pull out. Put it in bullet seating dye, adjust the dye until you feel resistance.
I imagine one could do the same with loctite, could they not? I mean, it’s basically good in and it’s not like you’ll be cranking on the seating die.
@@ronsorrentino6207 shure, you can try it!
When I was getting started I would lightly tap a fired case neck on the bench it would provide enough resistance to let the bullet slide into the lands but also allow it to come out. I would do it 3 times to ensure consistency.
Just starting to get into hand loading and it is easy to get lost in the weeds… This video is. very helpful. How do you approach initial cartridge length measurements for a new system? Imagine new rifle, brass, etc… for the initial firing of new brass, the recommended approach is to seat the bullets at the lands… I understand that it is critical to get a measurement from the bolt face to the lands which the gauge method cannot provide. The difference between the gauge measurement and the bolt methods implies extra headspace even on a fired case… it has been mentioned elsewhere that it can take more than a single firing for a case to fully expand to the chamber dimension and there should be some spring back expected as well. Keep up the great work!
Using the OAL gauge, you're pushing the bullet into the lands, whereas with the other methods, you're not. That is why you're seeing a difference. I've learned to use the gauge and NOT push so hard. Push until you meet resistance then release and then lock the push bar in place. I find that you will see the same kind of measurements as the locktite method.
Yes. Erik Cortina talks about the difference between finding the lands and what he calls the “jam method”.
That's why I want to find my O.A.L. with a fire formed case and resized with just enough neck tension to hold the projectile in place so I'm not jamming it into the lands, just touching. But at the same time I'm not putting to little neck tension so that when I hit it with calipers, it doesn't push the bullet inside the case. I do that 3 times and measure 3 times. If the measurements are the same or pretty close +/- .001 I know I'm good. If the measurements are off, then I know the neck tension is to tight because If the first measurement is 3.290" and the next is 3.330 that means the lands are grabbing the bullet....The bullet shape could be off that much BUT I doubt it.
You can also use some graphite dry lube on the part of the bullet that makes contact with the lands (Ogive) to help prevent the bullet from sticking in your bore.
@@semperfi6288 don’t know why but I like that idea better than case lube
You guys make a good team, very enjoyable and educational. Thank you for sharing the video and please keep up the good work !
I've used Travis' method for years. I recently picked up the Hornady tool and haven't quite tested it like you guys but it's interesting to see that the bullet can be pushed further in and logically that makes sense. Thanks for the videos guys!
For 40 years I have held an unloaded case above a candle to get a good sooty effect. Close the bolt gently, extract, and see if you are touching the lands, and by how much. Seat bullet slightly deeper and repeat the process. When the bolt closes easily and there is only the lightest mark of the lands, you know you are good to go to calculate further seating depth. This may be too inaccurate for the most exacting bench-rest shooters, but it gives me one-hole groups from my .222 Rem. I also prefer to headspace using the bolt rather than the shoulder of the cartridge.
This was how I was originally taught as well - but now I just use a sharpie
I started this modest little reloading channel myself, for beginners to cover things I didn't understand and were difficult to find. I just started precision, magnum reloading for a 300 PRC and 6.5 PRC. I'm going to share this on my channel and I really appreciate you guys demonstrating the importance of OAL measuring and using such a visually descriptive method to show this. I'm learning more and more myself and I happen to be at this step, as the .300 PRC seems to be VERY finicky about Ammo. I'm realizing that using book load data was giving me 0.0945" of jump on the 212 grain ELD-X and 0.215" of jump on the 250 grain A-tips.
Wow! That’s a big difference in jump. Gets even bigger with erosion from shooting.
I learned to reload on the 6.5 prc and recently the 300 prc. the long jump is typical on magazine fed rounds. To get the bullets up to touchpoint, with the new longer bullets, they won't fit in the magazine. Fortunately there are some good nodes at long jumps. As the throat erodes you may have to adjust seating depth. The long bearing surfaces seem to keep these new long bullets lined up despite the long jump until engagement of the lands.
I used to sharpie mark the ogive and look for land marks on the bullet. I've since been using the Hornady OAL gauge and I find the OAL gauge much easier and more accurate on my .223 and .308.
Very enlightening. Well done. One comment: (at 2:58 timestamp) It was stated that the ogive is being compressed. It. Is VERY difficult (darn near impossible) to compress metal. Metal is actually being moved (i.e., making burrs in the bullet) by contact with the rifling. This point may seem trivial to some, and is often misunderstood by laymen.
Awesome video. I wanted to save some money for projectiles and powder so I took a case and instead of a full resize I just gave it enough to hold on to the projectile. Not too tight, but not enough to pull out. Paint with a sharpie and push it in and lock it down. I ran it multiple times to verify the bullet wasn’t pulling back out as I have had that happen in early stages. But just like you guys said pick a method and stick with it because you can get varying numbers different ways.
Biggest thjng is making sure when you bring the dummy round back out, the rifling hasn’t pulled the bullet out. Sharpy helps you see that!
I use the OAL gage for all my reloading- it is what I learned so I bought my own gage and cases and use it to establish starting points for my various rifles.
I use a partially sized case, I only size about 1/16 - 1/8 inch of the case mouth. This way the bullet slides into case a bit easier so the bullet is less apt to stick into the rifling.
My cast bullet loads take a bit more care on the neck tension. I'll repeat this check several times to average out the measurement, then set a bullet a bit long then using a sharpie on the bullet and progressively seat deeper till I find a length to just mark the place that the bullet fully seals to the throat.
Also...for those considering the Hornady gauge, if you send Hornady two fired unsized cases, they will modify your case and send it back to you for $15. I got mine back in about two weeks.
It's so easy to make your own.
Screw Hornady!
Where is the link for the ‘special’ case head tap he mentioned ?
@@ivymike3459 The tap is 5/16-36tpi - You can get them from McMaster-Carr and probably other places that sell machinist tooling. You will likely not find it at the local hardware store.
Not if you live outside of the USA. Service is only available to USA residents. If you live elsewhere you have to make your own.
I use the OAL method with their factory cases. My problem with that tool is you never get the same reading twice so I take 5 reading and take the average of the closes setting.
I'm going to try the Locktite method as that seems like it would be very accurate.
Would like to have seen you take multiple reading of each type to see if you get the same reading (or close) every time.
Same, I always take 5 readings with it as well, I find the first one or two are off and then the rest are pretty consistent, I usually blame myself tbh
same. No confidence in the OAL. Hopefully, this demo will make me more comfortable with the OAL.
I use the oal and get the same reading. My problem is when I seat my bullet with my die i keep getting different lengths I'm using match dies everything is tight and secure. Any thoughts?
@@jeremydunn5903 call the die manufacturer and ask how to properly use it. They should have a support line.
Get it from them rather than.. " um, ah " suggestions. This shit ain't funny when things go wrong.
@@jeremydunn5903 Also, if you have a seating die insert, make sure it's the correct one.
I use the locktite method, however instead of using locktite I use a paper patch around base of bullet to keep it snug in the neck.
One issue with using the close the bolt method is that the seating depth might be increased by the pressure of the bolt. Furthermore, then when the bolt is retracted the bullet might ease out slightly from the case. It would seem the loktite method provides a good maintain of the bullet in the case. But I cringe at any red loktite in my chamber!
Loctite on a hard smooth surface in a non anaerobic isn’t going to adhere amazingly well. No issues getting it out with normal cleaning.
For cheap people like myself, you can buy steel wire the diameter of the primer hole and a lock collar the same diameter for a couple of bucks at a hardware store. No need to modify the case.
I prefer the loctite version because it incorporates the bolt into the solution. Seems to be the most accurate method in my mind. Thanks for the video. Very good info
Very Good Information. I love the third method (that I have always used) since it requires no special devices or tools and it is easy IF you are shooting different weights, lengths and ogive geometry, Use a once-fired case, tension the neck ONLY and let the lands seat the bullet. Important that you are careful that the land tension does not pull the bullet out of seating during the extraction of the test cartridge. Perform this a few times and look for consistency. I love watching your knowledge evolve Gavin; its evident form early the early vids to the latest. Shoot on!
Method number 4: Seat to the max length of your clip... unless you want to single load every bullet... which I don't want to do.
Zero the micrometer on your Forster seating die (if you have one)... Set the max length of your cartridge(to your clip), then lock the lock ring down on your die and call it good!
You can make a longer drop in bullet using the adjustment on your micrometer if you want to get closer to the lands and or you can buy a second Lee seating die for seating the longer rounds.
EXCELLENT VIDEO GUYS!!!
I used to use the hornady tool with modified cases, but swapped over to the wheeler method a couple years ago. Just seemed the most consistent.
Also amazing how many people I have seen with the hornday gauge backwards on the caliper. Not difficult to put the screw in the right side so the gauge is centered to the caliper blade.
This is what I do and I shoot short range benchrest and moving a bullet .003 into or out of the lands is critical!
I did the Hornady gauge and the black sharpie method and then split the difference for my 28 Nosler.I figured .006 off for the Berger VLDs I'm shooting and I have no problem shooting at any target.Once I got my Kilo 2400 set up I'm shooting out to 1500 no problem.Gone as far as 1870 and made hits.
Cracking video lads.
The risk with using the bolt to 'press' the bullet into the lands is that when you lift/retract the bolt you may pull the bullet back out of the case a little (if it is snug in the lands) this would gove a false reading and you would never know it had happened.
If you colour the 'whole' of the bullet with a sharpie pen, "then' carry out the bolt press method, not only will you get lands markings, but you will also see any bullet extraction that may occur as there would be a clean ring just above the neck where the bullet had been dragged back out of the case a little.
Also, as somebody mentions below, a tiny smear of case lube on the ogive may be a good idea.
The third method seems the easiest and fastest to do. just load a case with a loose bullet in the chamber and close the bolt. The great thing I can see about this one is that I could quickly do it as I am setting up my press for a loading session for a whole batch of a particular bullet. Then when you change to a different bullet type, quickly do the same
I use a Hornady gauge and their case which works fine. I’ve shot as tight as a .422” 5 shot group @100 yards with my 300 PRC using a Berger 230gr match bullet -.025” off the lands all measured with the Hornady gauge.
Very impressed, my friend. An inspiration to me to strive to excel and to encourage others to do the same. May you have great success!
I use the seating die and a resized empty unprimed case. In increments bullet seating further out until it does not chamber and I get rifling/lands marks on the bullet or the opposite and seating further down until it does chamber and no marks are visible but this takes a number of new unmarked bullets. Then I back it off to my desired COL. As stated, bullet type makes a big difference and results are based on each bullet type. I don't get stuck bullets in the lands this way since the bullet is seated. I only do it to know my chamber size. I do not chase the lands like I used to. Some rifles do not like it close to the lands while others do so I shoot different COL loads until I find the "sweet" chamber spot or accuracy node and that sweet spot will change between types of bullets and over time throat erosion. I have a .223 chamber that absolutely hates bullets close to the lands for that short jump. It likes a long jump to hit its best accuracy. Same for a .22-250 chamber.
My Tika T3X Rem 223 shoots well enough seated at the end of the clip... that I just call it good. I'm just shooting paper for the fun of it anyways.
@@50Quid-d3x I have a Remington 700 BDL .222 or Triple 2 that likes it close to the lands with 55gr. Nosler ballistic tips. That load will shoot a five shot group through the same hole (without making the hole bigger) at 100 yards.
I take a fired case and neck size only. I then use a dremel with a cut off wheel and cut two slots from the case mouth to the shoulder in a straight line with the cartridge and 180 degees from each other. Then deburr the slots. This allows the bullet to be pushed in when chambering. The bullet touches the lands and the tension holds the bullet enough to remove cartridge and check seating depth. Works well and can be used with any bullet over and over again
Without a wordy description, I use the method described in the Speer manual I got back in 1989 when my reloading journey began. I have only modified It slightly over the years but didn’t change the overall method it works for me.
Love using the last method that Travis showed. Very simple and works great. Regardless of what method is used - CONSISTANCY is the most important factor - choose a method and stick with it.
I was shown to use the OAL gauge and the rod down the barrel together, so you push the case into the chamber, then using both rods "feel" for the lands with as little force as possible. When you have it lock the OAL and remove. Do this 3 times and compare results.
Seems to work fine.
Minimizing jump/finding the lands is one of the more persistent myths (IMO). I was a full on adherent until reading an article back in 2016 that indicated that not all bullets, particularly the newer VLD/ELD designs, responded well to that approach and actually gave better results with more jump. Having acquired a megnetospeed to fine tune my 6.5/RPR loads (never really trusted my Chrony), I set up a test with my, to that point, most accurate load.
The change I made was to set the COAL at the 'book' value in the loading manual using Hornady's ELD-M bullet. I then setup of 5 shot loads of incremental COAL increase/Decrease from that point of .001 changes until the COAL maxed out "at the Lands" limit I had previously established with a dummy round.
What I found was that the RPR/ELD-M had a very specific 'range' that gave best SD/ES and accuracy and it was NOT anywhere close to the lands. It was a range of approx .003" around the book COAL which was astonishing to me have 'grown' up reloading for over 35 years at that point, believing that best accuracy was ALWAYS found seating the bullet out close to the lands.
This did not change when my barrel went past its 'speed bump' that most go through around 300 rounds or so. Like any load customization, what your particular rifle likes is going to be very individual, so really anyone's 'best load' is pretty much an ancedotal one off for that rifle/component combination. But before anyone goes all in on the "get as close to the lands as you can" paradigm, test your rifle with a good chronogrpah like the Magnetospeed or Labradar and spend some time testing various COAL setups. You might be surprised by what you find.
IMO - YMMV
A couple of decades ago when I was REALLY into making the best ammo I could, I used Sinclair’s comparator. It’s similar in that it uses the bullet in the chamber, take a measurement. Runs fired case in and take a measurement then subtract the part of the bullet that will be in the neck and measure the over all length. I would prefer to measure off of the olive but their option was full length, bullet seated. I really like that Loctite method for the shooting I do now. Thanks, Jeff
Sinclair’s does sell a comparator that measures off the ogive. Sorry. The auto correct got me on the ogive in the first message. Olive? Really?
When you’re using the bolt to “jam” it into the lands, coat the bullet with case lube or wax, and the bullet shouldn’t get stuck.
Same method I have used for many decades!! Works flawlessly!! Good comment. 👍👍
I’ve always used the 3rd method. I just lightly size the neck and use sharpie marker on the bullet to show lands imprint. Works great and real simple.
Gavin, I use the Hornady gauge, but I do a simple correction using the Hornady case headspace gauges), I measure the headspace dimension of the Hornady drilled & tapped gauge case vs. one of my fire-formed case from my rifle.
I apply that headspace correction to the base-to-ogive dimension I measure with the Hornady COAL gauge, which gives me the base-to-ogive length for MY brass. Sure, I could drill & tap my good brass, but simply applying the delta of the headspace length between Hornady's inexpensive gauge case and my fired/resized cases lets me keep my brass for shooting. The Hornady gauge cases cost about the same as a cup of coffee, so not having to set up my lathe for drilling and tapping (using a Wilson case length gauge as a chuck) is worth it!
TIP: for the Hornady bullet comparator; I just measured 3 different 223 bullets of different weights and manufacturers and found a total of CBTO variance of some .030. All bullets must have identical O'Gives.
Then I removed the plastic plunger and filed down the rounded end into a more pointed end and remeasured a 3 bullets again @ 8 each and found the new total variance of the same bullets to be .010. In two of the bullets the CBTO variance was less than 5%. Very accurate now.
My conclusion is the bullet bases are not 100% perpendicular to the concentricity of the bullet and the plastic plunger end is too large to get an accurate reading on a small point from the base of the bullets.
This was all done in a brand-new JC Custom barrel just purchased and not installed.
I wish Hornady would install a smaller metal pointed end on their plunger for a little extra money.
Sinclair OAL gauge does not get enough love. Takes a bit of math to calc the base to ogive, but results are consistent and no need for a modified case. Great video though!
I think on the last method where you have a seated bullet long and then close the bolt on it you need to make sure that you don't have a lot of neck tension.
I have been using the Sinclair COL guage now for 7 years and it gives an exact measurement every time and does not require modified cases or anything like that. I have found it to be the way to go. I am a 1000yd benchrest competition shooter and its my way for both my 6bra light gun and 7saum unlimited gun
For the last 30 years I’ve used an empty case and superglue instead of Loctite
On my Tika T3 223 stainless... I seat to the max length of the clip and sometimes maybe a little more on the first drop in round.
I can cut a Grove in the front of the clip... to get closer to the jam point, if I want.
The jam point makes the finished rounds to long... regardless of accuracy.
My rifle is extreemly accurate even with box ammo so no need to jam into the lands.
For those using the Hornady/Stoney Point gauge method it's great if you can drill and tap a spent case from your own gun as the gauge. If all you have is the one supplied by Hornady then just measure the difference in headspace between a spent case from your own gun (primer removed), and their gauge. Account for the difference with the Hornady case measurement.
I've used the first two, but until now hadn't thought about the third method!
And I like that 3rd idea and will test it in my rifle.
By the way, I am not a competition shooter, I just like to be as good as I can while hunting.
Thank you so much for sharing 🙂
Before I knew about the Hornady oal guage I made a tool using a fired case. I drilled thru the primer pocket and silver soldered a small diameter brass tube about 10in long I found at (I think) hobby lobby. Towards the end of the tube away from the brass shell I drilled a hole and silver soldered a small nut. I used a welding rod with a glued on plastic tip as the plunger. For the lock at the rear I used a small screw that I soldered a T handle.
With the bolt removed I drop a bullet in the chamber. I insert my tool and push the plunger on the bullet. Then, I lock the rod with the screw. I use a cleaning rod to disengage the bullet from the rifling. I insert the bullet in to my oal guage then measure with a dial caliper.
I cut the neck a tad into the shoulder. This way I use 1 set up for 308, 708, and 243. I have another set up for my '06.
It's interesting how there is so much variance in manufacturing bullets so I measure at least 10 then average the 0 lash oal measurement. If I was to compete I would measure every bullet and batch them. I just hunt with my loads but love to have the most accurate set up I can get without doing the whole case weighing, neck turning, etc thing. I keep playing with the OAL and powders til I get a clover leaf at 100yds. Great video.
The reason I made my tool was that in the 'sharpie the bullet, insert bullet and brass into chamber and lock the bolt' technique, the bullet always got stuck. I figured if it even got stuck a little I would get an erroneous oal measurement.
I have used the method of using a shot cartridge and sliding bullet in chamber. Then use bolt to push cartridge to seat bullet. Remove bolt and measure. On remington riffles, I have found a lot of free bore. Not able to seat bullet out to lands and still fit in magazine. But with that said, my 300 rem mag set to factory length is a true tack driver. At 100 yds, I can literally hit the head of a tack. I have taken several deer at 800+ yd. I've actually watched deer fall in scope when pulled trigger at those distance. I've tried on few savage and it seems their free bore is less. But as far as accuracy, each manufacturer seems to do well.
I like Eric cortinas method because it gives you a go no go feel for every other method it seemed to much of a difference in measurements
Erics method with bolt drop is to the touch. You are teaching people about the JAM. There is a difference.
I also use the 3ed method, but I very lightly tighten up the very end of the neck with my die set so the bullet won't stick in the barrel, I also use a black marker to see the rifling. 👍
Super interesting video. Thanks sincerely!
Great video! Awesome visual!
I use a sharpie and colour the bullet ogive on a dummy fired round in that chamber seated long in a case with very slight neck tension.The sharpie will show the engraving of the rifling.Very carefully remove the dummy round then measure.I usually do this three times to check for varibles.This has worked for the last 40 years for me.Then I seat the bullets .010 deeper to start my load ladder.When I have determined my best load I will then seat in incriments of .005 deeper for another load ladder until I have found my best accuracy....Good video
The loctite method works like a damn charm. Feel like I owe you money for that tip. I bought an old hall action benchrest rifle chambered in 6ppc .262 neck. However there was zero info on the chamber, gunsmith, and so on and zero items included with the rifle at auction. Barrel was new never fired action/ bolt also never fired so a deal I couldn’t turn down but trying to load for something like that with no info on chamber/seating specs kinda intimidating. That barrel my have been put on the action 30 plus years ago for all I know But having the exact depth for touching the lands helps a lot. Thanks!!
Thanks for the video! Getting the same results w/ loctite & jamming the bullet into the case does not make sense to me. Personally I will continue to use the OAL gauge and experiment with a force gauge to push on the rod.
I use the Hornady AOL gauge and light fingertip pressure. I'm not shooting benchers, but I do like to work on improving precision in my hunting rifles. Did I miss where you told us what drill and tap to use to make our own modified cases?
My method is the last one shown right down to the sharpie or black soot to mark the projectile. Bullet brand and model gets written down in my note book along with OAL for ease of setting up seating die the next time I use that particular projectile. I use this for all of my rifles and all of my single shot handguns chambered in rifle calibers....very repeatable and easy to do without the need for additional tooling. Will be teaching this to a new shooter next week when he brings his .308 win and loading gear to me for his first time experiencing the joys of handloading good ammunition.
Fired case.
Tap neck to slightly flatten mouth of case.
Cover bullet with Sharpie ink.
Seat bullet in case by hand (long) so neck holds bullet.
Slowly chamber round until bolt closes.
Open bolt and remove round. If bullet stuck in bore, tap it out carefully.
Flat edge of case neck will have removed Sharpie ink on bullet.
Reseat bullet in case up to end of Sharpie scratch.
Measure.
Repeat a couple of times to ensure consistency.
Been doing this for 25 years, until I was given an OAL gauge.
Results are the same.
Hey guys, good video, however, Eric uses the bolt drop you mentioned to set 2 thou shoulder bump in a full length sizing die NOT to find jam
That's not the way I understood his video, I think he sizes his brass the same way he always does, with. 002 bump but sans powder and primer, that way its consistent.
How could the bolt bump the lands back at all?
And yes, sans is a word....lol.... look it up but you may already know, good luck in your shooting!
I got a Ruger Hawkeye LRTin 6.5 PRC because I didn't want to spend TONS of $$ just getting started in long range target work and it was familiar to me as I had used a Ruger 77 Varmint in .308 and 77 in 30.06 when I got started in reloading in the early 1980s.
I use the Hornady OAL gage for 6.5 PRC. I have fire-formed Hornady and Gunwerks brass with the drilled/tapped primer pocket. I think I'll try a half dozen measurements to check for consistency in my "feel" for the lands. After watching the video, I may just try the Loctite method and compare. I THINK I may get more consistent results with the Loctite. I'll probably burn out the barrel by the time I've answered all my questions on powders, bullet selection, seating depth.
FYI - favorite load using Gunwerks brass SEEMS to be: SMK 142gr bullet set-back 0.012, H1000 powder (50.1gr), Federal LR match primers. I am starting to use Hornady brass because Gunwerks or ADG brass is unobtainium in 6.5 PRC.
I use the Johnny's Reloading method, resize your brass then with a drimal cut the neck. There's enough neck tension for the bullet to slide and repeat the process as many times as possible to get your average
I use a variant of #2 and 3.
I take a neck sized cartridge, cut one or two slits down the neck with a Dremel and then chamber it.
It has a little more give with the cut(s) and works well for me.
It's also my experience that the Hornady tool gives you a longer length. I got longer length with the modified cartridge they sell, so I made my own, same results up to .020 off. It was dependent on how much pressure I applied to the rod. Which is next to impossible to duplicate. Gave the whole setup away.
I went back to using a resized case with whiteout on the bullet for witness marks. I then seat a bullet -.005 from that measurement repeat the process with dry erase on the ogive to verify no lands marks.
I always use cerrosafe and make a casting of the chamber. That will tell you exactly where the lands are. The methods shown here will tell you the c.o.a.l. with a particular bullet. Change the weight or brand of bullet and the c.o.a.l. changes and you have to do this all over again if you change bullet weights or manufacturers. Not every 150 grain bullet has the same dimensions one manufacturer to the next! Casting the chamber is a one time thing! Then you know with ANY bullet weight or brand where the lands are and you can measure freebore by casting too! As well as the dimensions of your chamber so you can check for other things like throat erosion as well!
Been using the OAL gauges and have always done it the exact same way every time so I'm hopefully consistent there. However a bullet specific dummy set up to the lands would be a time saver and is clearly accurate as shown. Might have to dig out the red loktite
I’ll be using the Loctite retaining compound or the 290 adhesive. If you use the 290, BEWARE! It’s a wicking adhesive, use a very small amount smeared IN the case. If it leaks out it’ll glue the case and bullet in place. Once you get them out, there will be a hardened film adhered in your chamber.
Excellent video Gavin and Travis. I use the Alex Wheeler method for bullet seating and the Erik Cortina method for finding head space and setting up my FL sizing dies.
This is such a great video
So well done. The cut away of the chamber is priceless. This is the only channel you can see this very special content. This video is a game changer
Great vid guys, you saved me $80.
Appreciated from Canada 🇨🇦.
I have the Hornady OAL gauge, but have stoppe using it in favor af a fired case with a small slit Dremeled into one side of the neck. I thin pinch that just a tough to provide from friction to the bullet, put the bullet just barely into the neck and then chamber the case/bullet. When I extract the case, the bullet comes with and I just have to be careful to not let the case fly out.
I then take my measurements (being careful not to put excessive pressure on the bullet) and I'm done.
Super clear video, thanks fellas. I've been using the hornady OAL gauge, because I have one. I'll definitly be trying the other methods for comparison
I use the Hornady gage but I don’t push it in. Buy hand I gently turn the barrel down so it’s straight down then let the rod down easy that way gravity is the only push
Excellent and as a new Loader I have watch several videos and never really obtained a total grasp till this one. Thanks Guys…
I use a very similar process as the 3rd one he showed. The only difference is I take a very thin Emery cutting wheel and cut the neck to relieve some of the tension from the size case.
I use the same as you... It's very simple and easy to do. But I usually paint the bullet with a white board pen, just to see if the bullet was pushed out when you extract the case!
The Sinclair tool is great also, I use that because you don’t need the custom cases like the Hornady.
Morning fellas. Have to say this video is a great explanation of the subject matter. Thanks for the hard work, really well done.
Have also used stick down the barrel and one behind the bullet, feel when bullet touches and mark at muzzle. Then close bolt on empty chamber and mark at muzzle again. Measure distance and get oal. Time consuming but works.
I use the hornady OAL gauge but when or if I’m trying to get a accurate load on a new cartridge and I don’t have time to wait to order a modified case I use the third method except when the bolt is stiff I will pull out the loaded cartridge and seat the bullet deeper on my press a little at a time till the bolt closes freely. It’s a little time consuming but had great success with it and you don’t get a bullet stuck in the lands.
Hi guys liked your Video! I use gel superglue in a fired case with no primer then I push the bolt down quick easy and very effective that then goes into my caliber specific box for that type of bullet if I choose to use same gun different bullet I repeat the step. Easy painless and super effective put gel inside of neck in case then your bullet load the round in push the bolt down wait 5-7 min boom 🤯 done 👍🏻
I’m Trying to put a load together for my 300 Win Mag. 190 grain accubond long range with RL 17 I tried 67,68,69 grains can’t get them to group up at 100 yards.I’m at 3.442 on the lands went to 3.412 and started there. Just curious any ideas?
last method is fastest to a result in the .001range of other methods, easy choice due to johny's reloading bench who is slightly different though conceptually close. One of the earliest things I learned was seating depth is a variation with manipulatable & testable features so start somewhere with a goal in mind and test away.
It's no wonder you were reading longer with the Hornady gauge! If you read the instructions:
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“We recommend using no more than 3 or 4 lbs. pressure on the bullet adjustment rod (about that of a light trigger pull). Then, gently tap the bullet adjustment rod with your index finger to ensure the bullet is in light contact with the lands. The most preferred method is to use the bullet adjustment rod in one hand and a wooden dowel inserted through the muzzle in the other hand, “sandwiching” the bullet. This allows a positive feel as the bullet contacts and releases from the rifling. Remember to use the same pressure or “tapping technique” on the bullet adjustment rod each time you use the tool. Keep in mind that you can “drive” the bullet into the lands as much as .025" by using excessive pressure or a “heavy-handed” approach. The key is to find a relatively light, yet positive “touch point” of the bullet’s ogive with the origin of the rifling. It is from this “touch point” that adjustments can be made in bullet seating depth.”
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In the video, you could see you pushing so hard you were flexing the rod! Probably using 10lb or more!
For the modified case, although I have made my own, you can use the Hornady ones with just as much accuracy - simply measure the difference with a headspace comparator.
Good info. I've had differences of far more than the .025" mentioned...It likely could depend on caliber & the lengths involved. I've had .338 Lapua 300 grain Scenar give a difference of over .200" between the point it can be first felt, vs pushing until it stops (not pounding in with sledge-hammer). I jam a couple in and take measurements just to give a sense to ensure that what I feel is the actual lands, and not resistance in the tool. I've had some bullets that slide more easily than others. Berger really seem to have a hard time moving in the modified case, which makes getting a "touch point" almost impossible. The rod can also give some resistance and I've seen some suggest to sand it down a bit.
The method I use is, I will take a fire formed case, clean it with Brasso, clean my chamber and bore wipe it all down real good. I then take my fire formed brass run it up into my resizing die, (Yes....full length resizing...lol) just enough to give some neck tension because it resizes the neck first, just enough to keep the bullet from sticking in the bore, but not to much that I'm jamming the projectile into it. Seat the projectile long in my seating die (does not matter if your lock ring is tight). You're not looking for concentricity you're just looking to seat your bullet long, the bore will take care of that. I do that (measure) 2 or 3 times to make shure that when the bullet is making contact with the lands and I am unchambering my dummy round that the bullet is not being pulled out of the case. Take the OAL measurment, and experiment with jump. Different chambers and platforms like different things. There is no one jump that fits all. It's what your rifle likes to eat. Happy reloading.😁 I least like the method of fully sizing the neck and smashing the bullet into the lands. Eric Cortinas method is probably the most accurate, I could be wrong, but I think my method is a bridge between what is shown here and Eric's.