thanks for the video!! I really wanted to get an AMP but simply can't afford $1600 plus just to anneal my brass. I ended up getting the EP 2.0 annealer and couldn't be happier especially for the price. I love the fact it can adjust from cartridge to cartridge from 17hornet to 50bmg in less than 30 seconds without having to add or remove any parts. It's just stupid easy to use. Once again, thanks for everything you do! Awesome video!
I got the machine from AGS. Quick ship. Everything included except gas and machine is compact and intuitive. Bonus that it’s about 1/5 of the price of this one. This machine is great if you can afford it
Follow many of you’re videos I believe there is something the community may be missing here. I anneal after all sizing and trimming operations. After this anneal I lube the neck with a foam makeup applicator and one shot then neck mandrel one last time befor loading. It is super consistent and I believe leaves the brass as stress free and in the least work hardened state going into the chamber.
I use the Annealeez, it’s been great for what I do and is more budget friendly. I’m sure this is the crème de le crème but it’s not in the budget of your average reloader.
One important note: Annealing drastically changes the brass friction coefficient, which can lead to huge seating force differences. It is advisable to clean your brass after annealing. I typically anneal my brass as my very first step in my reloading. process
Do you advise cleaning the brass with the various available case cleaning methods of just a simple pass through with a neck cleaning brush? I too have concerns about this. I notice that you have a tendency to burn off the carbon from inside the neck of fired cases. Not sure that is a good thing.
@@MarkRichards-z4w I wet tumble and haven't seen a difference between annealing clean or dirty brass. Annealing first saves the time from another cleaning operation.
Question … Does it matter if you clean cases before annealing? I’ve been sizing my dirty .223 before cleaning so that the tumbling process also removes the case lube. Thanks for the great videos!
I wouldn’t consider it until the brass is fired 3 times. Even then… it depends on factors like how much you shoot, how much you reload and what your budget is. This machine is $1675.00. You can buy a boatload of new brass for that money.🤷♂️ I’ve annealed brass in the oven but not often. I’ll usually just reload brass until it dies. Most common calibers can be found for free littering the shooting range. Annealing is so far in the woods that it’s hard to justify the time and expense for the average shooter or hunter.👍🥃
"Anneal" every time, but understand by "anneal" you actually just need to soften the work hardened brass, which does NOT require the temps which a true anneal takes place at (~1070°). And DON'T do this in an oven, as you're softening THE WHOLE CASE doing it that way when you really only want to soften the neck and shoulder (a bit under the shoulder, like 2-3 mm, is about where you want to be). You can build an induction annealer for about $400 from a parts listed on accurateshooter forum. It's really not hard.
@AmericanNationalist852 I don't anneal 223 purely because I don't really care about it's accuracy enough to warrant doing it. My 223 brass usually ends up lost long before it fails anyway.
@@SigmaBallistics Yea been meaning to do that but came across Gavins vid so thought I would pose the question to him as he has direct contact with the AMP folks. I am only seeing this with some older 06 military brass.
Gavin, cost is a big inhibitive factor on this great machine. Really wish you would delve more into the science of annealing and the art of how to do it properly instead of just drop your case into an AMP annealer.
With the latest version of firmware (D.02o) go into AZTEC > RUN > Enter manually and enter setting 7039. This will enter the legacy standard mode. Please note that unless you have the specific brand and lot number of the case you want to anneal these settings may not be correct for your brass and you should always use AZTEC mode to ensure you have the correct setting.
@707Sportschuetze bare with me, I know im getting a bit autistic here: so the 'proper' way is to use tempilac, and adjust the power and time to where the case is getting 'annealed' for as little time as possible but still acheiving the desired temps in the case mouth and shoulder...but I just shut the lights off and find the time needed to get the brass just barely glowing (i have a 36v power supply but most people back it down to 24v or so), then subtract a tenth or two of a second from to the timer so it's NOT glowing anymore (yes, tenths of a second make a HUGE difference). The time I settle on will leave about a 2-4mm "anneal" mark on the batch of brass im "annealing", which is something you have to pay attention to because all brass is inconsistent in this area. You want the time to be AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE so you're not pushing heat too far into some cases that might be a bit thinner at the mouth or in the body. When brass starts to glow "annealing" occurs, but the reality is that you DON'T need to "anneal" the brass again, as its annealed from the factory, you just need to soften the work-hardness out of the brass from firing it, which happens UNDER the 'true anneal' temp of ~1070°. We do this so there's no spring-back of the shoulder after FL or neck sizing (literally the whole point of this process) But if you get 850 or 900° tempilac you'll be alright. In the end I know I'm not cooking my brass to death, and after i run my brass through Forrester dies, which I've found are very consistent, I then size/champher/deburr with a Giraud Tri-way cutter which indexs off of the shoulder, and I get perfect case lenths every time, so i know there's no springback occurring. Not the most scientific method and the accurateshooters article i got the plans from goes way more autistic than that, but i find my way works too without pulling my hair out like those guys on the forums who dont understand the difference between "annealing" and "softening out work hardness". My run-out, SDs and ES's have dropped dramatically since switching over to this from the inconsistent torch and socket method, plus there's the self satisfaction of having built it.
An awesome machine, to be sure, but difficult to justify the expense for someone who isn’t a dedicated competitor shooting thousands of rounds per year. A hard core varmint hunter, maybe. Beyond that, a flame annealer will do the job at far lower cost.
@ flame annealing has worked just fine for a very long time. It will continue to work for a very long time. Not saying induction isn’t superior just difficult to justify the expense for the typical reloader.
Thnx for your awsome channel, the video and sharing your primary three reasons for annealing. One issue that perhaps should be mentioned in conjunction with the AMP MK II DB - and is breifly mentioned in the manual - is that the annealing analysis shoud be conducted with a FIRE FORMED BRASS. and NOT a new piece of brass. This in order to obtain the best analysing data/result for the brass.
thanks for the video!! I really wanted to get an AMP but simply can't afford $1600 plus just to anneal my brass. I ended up getting the EP 2.0 annealer and couldn't be happier especially for the price. I love the fact it can adjust from cartridge to cartridge from 17hornet to 50bmg in less than 30 seconds without having to add or remove any parts. It's just stupid easy to use. Once again, thanks for everything you do! Awesome video!
I love it; it's really fluffy to me. Funny my first thought was arguably: How to make annealing more expensive 😊
didn't understand anything, right?
I got the machine from AGS. Quick ship. Everything included except gas and machine is compact and intuitive. Bonus that it’s about 1/5 of the price of this one. This machine is great if you can afford it
Just got the MKII DB, AWESOME machine
How much?
@@bocefusmurica4340 i bought about 12-13 pilots with it also, but with a small military discount, directly thru AMP, it was all right at 1900
@bocefusmurica4340 i bought directly from AMP and also included 14 or 15 pilots. With a small military discount, it was around $1900 shipped.
I'd love to see a comparison of the same load in the same brass, but half annealed and half not annealed.
I got mine when when the Mark II DX came out. I got mine because it gives you more constant loads. I have the computer shell loader. Savers you time.
These are awesome units! I love mine!
Follow many of you’re videos I believe there is something the community may be missing here. I anneal after all sizing and trimming operations. After this anneal I lube the neck with a foam makeup applicator and one shot then neck mandrel one last time befor loading. It is super consistent and I believe leaves the brass as stress free and in the least work hardened state going into the chamber.
What do you think about annealing with a plumber’s torch and a drill with a socket that fits your case?
I use the Annealeez, it’s been great for what I do and is more budget friendly. I’m sure this is the crème de le crème but it’s not in the budget of your average reloader.
Would like to se a shoot off comparison ! Longevity, time to reload and cost breakdown……
Thank you for the technical information !
Would love to have one. Just out of my price range
Can, and should you annel nickel plated brass?
Does anybody ever sell these things? I have never seen a used one for sale.
The people who have one probably won't give it away. Why should they?!?
@ that says a lot for the product. I plan on getting one.
they do occasionally but they go quickly
Retired can't afford and have never had an issue in 10 reloads on .223 and .308 brass.
Brass needs to be elastic (spring back) for easy ejection. Over annealing makes brass plastic(expands and stays) CLICKERS, CLICKERS, CLICKERS
One important note: Annealing drastically changes the brass friction coefficient, which can lead to huge seating force differences. It is advisable to clean your brass after annealing.
I typically anneal my brass as my very first step in my reloading. process
I first remove the primer, then I wash the cases & then I anneal them
Do you advise cleaning the brass with the various available case cleaning methods of just a simple pass through with a neck cleaning brush? I too have concerns about this. I notice that you have a tendency to burn off the carbon from inside the neck of fired cases. Not sure that is a good thing.
@@MarkRichards-z4w I wet tumble and haven't seen a difference between annealing clean or dirty brass. Annealing first saves the time from another cleaning operation.
Question … Does it matter if you clean cases before annealing? I’ve been sizing my dirty .223 before cleaning so that the tumbling process also removes the case lube. Thanks for the great videos!
Is it possible to "over anneal" brass, before melting, and if it is possible, how does it affect the brass, will you still be able to use it?
Love mine MKII!
Do you anneal the brass every time you shoot , or just sometimes???
I wouldn’t consider it until the brass is fired 3 times.
Even then… it depends on factors like how much you shoot, how much you reload and what your budget is.
This machine is $1675.00.
You can buy a boatload of new brass for that money.🤷♂️
I’ve annealed brass in the oven but not often.
I’ll usually just reload brass until it dies.
Most common calibers can be found for free littering the shooting range.
Annealing is so far in the woods that it’s hard to justify the time and expense for the average shooter or hunter.👍🥃
If you want consistent neck tension, you really should be annealing every time. I don't bother with 223, though.
"Anneal" every time, but understand by "anneal" you actually just need to soften the work hardened brass, which does NOT require the temps which a true anneal takes place at (~1070°).
And DON'T do this in an oven, as you're softening THE WHOLE CASE doing it that way when you really only want to soften the neck and shoulder (a bit under the shoulder, like 2-3 mm, is about where you want to be).
You can build an induction annealer for about $400 from a parts listed on accurateshooter forum. It's really not hard.
@@DantheGunMan1026 why not? With my home made setup i can leisurely anneal 1000 pieces of 223 in about 2 to 2.5 hours 🤷🏻♂️
@AmericanNationalist852 I don't anneal 223 purely because I don't really care about it's accuracy enough to warrant doing it. My 223 brass usually ends up lost long before it fails anyway.
Gavin
Can you do a video on the 21st century power lathe neck turner ????
Does different brands of brass in the same caliber need to be recalibrated ? And will it store the info so you only have to destroy one case?
Yes. Different headstamps of brass have small differences in the quantity of material in the case.
Was considering reloading but with all the equipment needed, the cost is prohibited.....just buy your ammo new and forgetting about it reloading.
Why is it that my AMP will not analyze various 30-06 military head-stamps from the 40’s & 50’s?
interesting, email the guys over at amp, i'm sure they would love to know about this!
@@SigmaBallistics Yea been meaning to do that but came across Gavins vid so thought I would pose the question to him as he has direct contact with the AMP folks. I am only seeing this with some older 06 military brass.
@@sig7798 Gavin has no more of a direct line than you do. Email them, they are very responsive
Are you getting your hands on the Labrador LX?
I’m super keen to see a comparison against Garmin
*Labradar
If you shoot boutique calibers I can see using this but only if you shoot thousands of rounds ! The cost just doesn’t justify the advantage ……
Gavin, cost is a big inhibitive factor on this great machine. Really wish you would delve more into the science of annealing and the art of how to do it properly instead of just drop your case into an AMP annealer.
You should really read the "Annealing under the microscope" research series. I've talked about it on my channel!
The AMP DP is a step backwards compared to the "old" MK2. It only has the Atztec mode - no more standard mode!!!
*DB & yes thats right. Love my MKII
With the latest version of firmware (D.02o) go into AZTEC > RUN > Enter manually and enter setting 7039.
This will enter the legacy standard mode.
Please note that unless you have the specific brand and lot number of the case you want to anneal these settings may not be correct for your brass and you should always use AZTEC mode to ensure you have the correct setting.
I'll stick with my DIY induction annealer that only cost me $400 to build.
How do you determine the optimal glow duration and glow intensity
@707Sportschuetze bare with me, I know im getting a bit autistic here:
so the 'proper' way is to use tempilac, and adjust the power and time to where the case is getting 'annealed' for as little time as possible but still acheiving the desired temps in the case mouth and shoulder...but I just shut the lights off and find the time needed to get the brass just barely glowing (i have a 36v power supply but most people back it down to 24v or so), then subtract a tenth or two of a second from to the timer so it's NOT glowing anymore (yes, tenths of a second make a HUGE difference). The time I settle on will leave about a 2-4mm "anneal" mark on the batch of brass im "annealing", which is something you have to pay attention to because all brass is inconsistent in this area. You want the time to be AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE so you're not pushing heat too far into some cases that might be a bit thinner at the mouth or in the body.
When brass starts to glow "annealing" occurs, but the reality is that you DON'T need to "anneal" the brass again, as its annealed from the factory, you just need to soften the work-hardness out of the brass from firing it, which happens UNDER the 'true anneal' temp of ~1070°. We do this so there's no spring-back of the shoulder after FL or neck sizing (literally the whole point of this process)
But if you get 850 or 900° tempilac you'll be alright.
In the end I know I'm not cooking my brass to death, and after i run my brass through Forrester dies, which I've found are very consistent, I then size/champher/deburr with a Giraud Tri-way cutter which indexs off of the shoulder, and I get perfect case lenths every time, so i know there's no springback occurring.
Not the most scientific method and the accurateshooters article i got the plans from goes way more autistic than that, but i find my way works too without pulling my hair out like those guys on the forums who dont understand the difference between "annealing" and "softening out work hardness". My run-out, SDs and ES's have dropped dramatically since switching over to this from the inconsistent torch and socket method, plus there's the self satisfaction of having built it.
@ Thanks for the report. If it works then you did everything right. I have the MKII and am very happy with it. greetings from Germany
An awesome machine, to be sure, but difficult to justify the expense for someone who isn’t a dedicated competitor shooting thousands of rounds per year. A hard core varmint hunter, maybe. Beyond that, a flame annealer will do the job at far lower cost.
Flame is suboptimal! Why? You need a constant temperature, constant pressure in the bottles. How do you know how long the ideal time for the glow is?
@ flame annealing has worked just fine for a very long time. It will continue to work for a very long time. Not saying induction isn’t superior just difficult to justify the expense for the typical reloader.
Okay cool. Anyways. More ballistic gel testing. Thanks.
Thnx for your awsome channel, the video and sharing your primary three reasons for annealing. One issue that perhaps should be mentioned in conjunction with the AMP MK II DB - and is breifly mentioned in the manual - is that the annealing analysis shoud be conducted with a FIRE FORMED BRASS. and NOT a new piece of brass. This in order to obtain the best analysing data/result for the brass.
That would take a ridiculous amount of time. I usually loak 1k rounds at a time.