Religion and Science Make SIMILAR Assumptions?? | Eve & Forrest Valkai
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Original Episode Here: ua-cam.com/users/liveA04bAsjMpVg
A Christian caller named Brian tries to explain his belief in God, comparing religious faith to scientific assumptions. The hosts challenge this comparison and Brian's claim that Christianity provides objective morality. They discuss problematic Biblical teachings, especially regarding slavery, which Brian struggles to justify. The conversation reveals Brian's selective interpretation of the Bible, leading the hosts to argue he's moral despite his religion, not because of it.
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I love hearing people think about something for the first time ever.
Hey you can do that your self how about the Kalam Cosmological Argument? Yes… oh.
Did you know we find billions of dead things… oh you can finish the saying.
Just making sure you have heard about Jesus Christ right? Yes? Oh… shucks golly gee.
@@n0etic_f0x Hi, would you mind translating this comment to English? I've reread it a couple times but it's unfortunately too incoherent in its current state. I'd love to reply, but I genuinely can't tell what message you're trying to get across.
@@n0etic_f0xThink about the Kalam Cosmological argument for the first time? lol, as if this very channel hasn’t addressed that argument thousands of times
@@confustled It’s a joke, does that help?
@@Corporate_Desecration seriously… the joke is easy to understand.
Eve and Forrest make a great team.
Yea, I agree they're great together!
@@Domzdream Eve can even ride Forrest if they're running late somewhere. Neiiiigh..... Wonder if he likes sugar cubes?
You beat me to it.
@@uncleanunicorn4571 Don't tell forest's wife that. :)
Totally. This is one of the best clips overall.
Eve's line of questioning was brilliant. Brian was actually thinking as she gently guided him through the massive holes and faults in his thinking. His dead air spots seemed to be him realizing the flaws in his positions, with no reasonable responses to counter her arguments. Great job Eve!
I would not like to face Eve in a debate. Phenomenal.
Do you know her surname, pls?
@@CharlieMcowan WasFramed, hope that helped. =P
@@CharlieMcowanweird..
As misguided and deluded Brian is I do have to hand it to him for actually considering the questions when pushed and answering honestly when pushed. It took a lot of pushing but many theists get angry and/or just don't answer at all.
@@CharlieMcowan So what ? That you would not like to face Eve in a debate ?
What value do you add to that which can hardly be described as anything but a debate ?
What a good thing to see an adult Christian think about something deeply for the first time ever.
I think is condescending to say for the first time ever. However I do agree he seems to notice the inconsistencies in some of his answers. I hope he calls again.
I don't think Brian was prepared for this
You have to give Brian some credit, instead of just getting mad he was thinking through the ideas.
Thinking is so rare, and so awesome. Folks, be a Brian.
I think he learned something. He did far better than someone else I am talking with in another comment section.
@@n0etic_f0xI hope he learns something and serves as a good example for others because Eve owned him so hard in minutes, after letting him ramble and try to make 6 points and hitting none.
of course he was not
Forrest secretly turns into a unicorn when he has to fight the Red Bull.
But at other times, a bicorn or a tricorn, as needed.
Last unicorn reference 🫡🫴💞 awesome movie
. . . Do you not?
I gotta find that audiobook
Only cuz Shmendrick finally got the spell right.
Hilarious …the mental gymnastics people will try to go through to validate their beliefs, rather than answer your questions, yes or no.
It sometimes takes a lot for a human mind to unwind itself from its knotty cognitive dissonance. Eve and Forrest did a great job of loosening those knots for Brian. Hopefully he'll work on them himself in the future.
If mental gymnastics was an Olympic event, this bloke would be a gold medal contender
Well, he just told us from the beginning that he does not understand the terminology he was using. Like "postulates" and the mathematical "axioms" used in Euclid's Elements. While I don't value that information too much(its mostly useless), we are factually smarter than before, because the level of information that we now have is bigger than before. Also, as a satire in the style of Euclid's countrymen in his time, this caller made feel bad for him, but also made me smile and laugh a little bit. That is a good thing!:) Hehehe
@@rikk319 Maybe, but two months after this call Brian called back to make exactly the same point, again, to Eve. But, maybe even further in the future..
@@adamoconnor7954or a ninja lol
I remember when Eve started showing up on shows like this. She was quiet and reserved and in many cases rarely said anything. So it's really nice to see her come into her own.
More Eve!
She's a natural at this, she did an excellent job with Brian.
I actually got invested in eve’s content when I had TikTok before she got involved in UA-cam debates. She had always been very well-spoken and puts a lot of thought into her discussions, and is always having an open mind with the people she talks to. I got excited when I saw her on the Line for the first time and hope she continues!
@@ritchie6162 I agree!
Excellent Eve..for majority of the callers..Eve's line of questioning is excellent..short questions is more productive than long explanations..bcos most of these callers are bad listeners..
The moment someone invokes faith, I hear them saying “I’m extremely gullible but I’m also not prepared to question the things I was told to believe “
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
I don’t think they’re gullible, I think most times it’s just bashed in from birth, so it’s just like a second alphabet to them, it feels like objective fact, is what I’m trying to convey, it’s like someone saying “hey! Your parents, and most likely everyone around you is wrong!”
If you can be a theist after hearing bryan talk about _his_ religious beliefs.....
Please buy this bridge!
tbf Brain's belief doesn't have to do with any other argument for god. I think they're all bunk, but Brain having a bad belief system doesn't mean yours is bad (it is, but that doesn't have to be)
How much do you want for the bridge?
Gonna need more info about this bridge
Yes, and it is also a space ship which can fly you to the moon. Best bang for your buck.
I also have these unicorns.
When Brian stays quiet for a few seconds, you know he hasn't thought a lot about his own speech, and he had just repeated it over and over, like the preachers at the pulpits
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 It would be interesting to hear you in the show, and see if you can convince anybody just with your robotic preaching.
Brian’s constant pauses when asked basic questions tells me all I need to know.
It’s like theists know they’re making shit up as they go and they see “answering a question “ as an opportunity to fill the gap in the god lore to try make it make sense in a narrative,rather than actually seeking reasonable truth
How hard is this to understand? Jesus runs the operation, but god's in charge, and is also Jesus. There may or may not also be a third one.
@@seivaDsugnA...but they're still 1, somehow. 🤔
And definitely not 4, no way 4 and absolutely no way 9 or 12 like the Ennead and to some extent the Olympians.
@letsomethingshine Don't forget the Egyptian, Aron Ra is the Ra of Ras (joking, of course).
Whenever someone says something along the lines of "I choose to believe it because it's beneficial, therefore it's true", I always tell that person that they owe me a million dollars because I chose to believe that and it would be very beneficial. Ask them "Where's my money?" and they quickly change the topic every time.
But that person is never going to pay you the million dollars, so it's not going to be beneficial to you...
The Bible does NOT advocate for scepticism; Thomas was a character who embodied scepticism and was ultimately shamed for not believing on faith alone.
@@stefkukla8533 what about the story of Abraham being skeptical about God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and he bargains with God to come to a compromise?
@@BlakeBaggott Then, at best, the Bible is self-contradictory. All the more reason to not build your house on its quicksand.
@@stefkukla8533 the Bible is definitely self-contradictory! Sorry, I thought you were speaking negatively about skepticism and were using the Bible to justify your position.
That said though, I think reckoning with the Bible’s contradictory accounts of faith and doubt can actually be useful for those who attempt to claim that the Bible is univocal and consider it authoritative. There are plenty examples of doubt and skepticism being rewarded. Jesus’ entire ministry was based on skepticism that the religious elites of the day were legitimate.
The question they can never answer:
"Other than bringing out the absolute worst in people, name one thing religion can do that secularism can't"
I have yet to receive an answer
That's a nice Hitchslap! 😅
Please credit the originator of that question, Chris Hitchens
The only answer is eternal hell or bliss, neither of which is demonstrably true. I grew up asking myself the same question.
Compel people to be decent (or at least do stuff) thru fear of Infinite Torture.
@@jurassicsmackdown6359 I would like to believe that I will see my grandparents again. I don't, but it would be comforting.
Loool, the way Eve and Forrest made this man sweat with every question is just golden 😂😂😂
Yeah much better than Dilahunty shouting and screaming at people
@ganndeber1621 Look, I get it. But everyone has their different style. If you can take Matt giving you the business, that's fine. But, if not your cup of tea, there's Forrest, there's Eve, there's Dave, etc etc :)
@@Callimo Thank you, I'm glad I got your permission not to like Dilahunty, I feel so relieved
@@Callimo Yeah, when I was deconverting I watched Dillahunty but he was a bit too abrasive for me and then I came across Seth Andrews who was more of my style.
Drew from Genetically modified skeptic is the best.
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but getting good people to do evil - that takes religion."
Another Hitchens pupil!
I love it 🤩
@@ianp3112 Maybe, but that quote was Stephen Weinberg🙂
It was Christopher quoting Stephen, he quoted him by name a bunch of times. @@roqsteady5290
If you think it requires religion to get good people to do evil, you are not seeing the bigger picture.
All it takes for good people to do evil is for them to have blind faith in anything and for that blind faith to be utilized for nefarious means by those that are greedy for wealth and power.
The blind faith can be in anything, belief in a supreme being, belief that a corrupt government has the best interests of the masses at heart, belief that purely profit-driven big pharma actually cares at all whether they harm people with their products as long as they rake in the cash, etc., etc.
In the end, it is the blind faith itself that is required, not religion specifically.
@@roqsteady5290I think Hitchens said it was his quote.
I wish this exchange could be shown in every church, synagogue, temple, mosque, etc across the USA.
I love the "you are a better person than your faith" argument. So powerful.
"Without a god, there is no objective morality."
"If you believe something with all your heart, that makes it true and real."
This call was an excellent summary of:
“How to say you haven’t got a good reason for your beliefs without saying you haven’t got a good reason for your beliefs”
Eve is a ⭐️
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
Kudos to both of you for handling this call with such composure, patience, and wisdom. If you ever feel like you’re not getting through to people like Brian, you are absolutely right - BUT, there are plenty of others like me who have benefited greatly from listening to these conversations and as a result can fianlly come to terms with letting go of the religious beliefs that we were indoctrinated with as children even though they never sat well within our own moral compass.
You two are a dynamic duo on this platform. More please!
Me to when young and in jail nice xtian people but the Bible when you start going through it and not believe crap well if you read it you soon realise morals in weird slavery killing of babies and just warped way of thinking just crap man made beneficial for who not non believers
No during crusades they believed or died that's not a good god that is murder that's it
I'd just like to say thanks for posting your wonderful comment. I hope the hosts see it and appreciate it. Keep up the great work!
Well said.
This is why what they do is important.
I'm also going to say kudos to Brian. I think he worked real hard here, and I know he has a LOT of work to do before he has his breakthrough, but I sense it'll come ... one day.
I love this tandem! They shattered this man into pieces.
@@just42day and they did it mostly very politely. What a great duo.
I think we can all agree that Forrest is a unicorn!
Metaphorically, absolutely. ":^)
I have roleplayed as my fursona for hours, hell many of my friends call me n0etic. Guess I am the fox demon my fursona is... and that means I have a bar in Hell. It is very nice, we have free food.
I can’t prove that he isn’t!
I don't take things on faith, I'd have to see what colors his poop is before I believe it.
he not a unicorn, he is THE UNICORN!
This is hands down one of my favorite calls I’ve heard on any of these programs!
Yep. How many times did you think you were about to hear a live deconversion? Still, I feel fairly certain it'll come.
The Bible says whatever you WANT it to say
No, people choose to only read and believe what benefit them. The bible is fairly clear and in some cases directly law text from 'god'. There's really little interpretation needed.
Nobody who really read the bible for what it says could with a clear conscience be a Christian. It is for the most part totally amoral at best.
It is the wrue tord of god.
The bible DOES indeed tell me that my rod is so long that it can wind around my waist and meet back where it started...
I shall NOT tell you the chapter and verse, you merely need to have faith that it is so.
Exactly
@@seivaDsugnA NO its the word of MEN wanting to control people. End. Of. Story.
If something is demonstrably true, it's true for everyone.
When you add a drop of water to another drop of water, you get 1 drop of water 1+1 =/= 2
I love that Forest makes a unicorn sound. I choose to believe that's how one sounds! LOL
How is a belief in a god essential for an objective reality, when evidence shows belief in a god results in a variety of subjective moralities. Islamic morality is different than Hindu or Judaism or Sikh moralities. If it where objective wouldn't all beliefs in a god result in the same objective morality?
Interestingly there's a different set of morals for every christian as well.
@@visforvegan8Not just for christians themselves, but the bible in and of itself disagreed and contradicts itself on whether something is moral or not.
@@mina6mina Except slavery, and controlling women. The Bible is always good with those.
Love how he squirms and deflects when forced to answer. Can't his deity help?
It's good he was feeling uncomfortable--that means he still has logic circuits working in his brain. I'd be more worried if he didn't squirm and showed no remorse or empathy when Eve and Forrest pointed out his hypocrisies. I've seen those kinds of callers, and they're almost hopeless to confront.
Well seeing that we as non-believers would even be here, forever will wondering be the only possibility I suppose.
It's funny. despite the fact that most of these callers would claim to have a very real relationship with the king of all things - my, aren't they just so bloody special? - I don't think even a single one has had a god back them up at any point. Their lord, master and owner seems content to leave them out to dry, to squirm and to be jesters for the unbelievers.
Call me demanding, but I would think that an all-wise god that answers prayers would furnish these wretched examples of his flock with something better than urging us all to stare at trees.
@@kentonbaird1723 But didn't God make the point that it's all about faith. And faith, by definition, cannot be proved. And so, they shouldn't be phoning in and trying to prove it to atheists anyway. And --- I think it says in the small print --- God will now probably condemn them to eternal fire for doing so.
This guy was bitting the weirdest bullets. “Am I a unicorn? Yes you are” I didn’t expect that answer
😂. You know what? I would’ve applauded him at least for that. But utter failure
He is trying to be consistent which leads to absurdities when you have a false belief.
This guy: 19:00 "you can only get objectivity based on a god"
Also this guy : "Whichever god you choose to believe in, that god becomes _true for you_ "
Oh sure, just pick the objective morality you want 😂😂😂
Doesn't know what "objective" means, it seems.
It is amazing how religion turns otherwise sensible into brain mush.
Science under it's "assumptions" can still do things. The day someone shows me how to build a computer via God I will convert.
Yeah like the whole point of science is to build models that we can use to make predictions. You can’t do that with religion, so I don’t know why religious folk try to conflate the two together. They are not synonymous with each other.
hence the words applied science.....yes you can do tests over and over and still come up with the same results, as opposed to religion going off of faith.
@@ritchie6162they can’t follow the conversation apparently.
You can say that science is discovering and understanding the laws God set up for our reality and so building a computer has already been done via God.
I mean if you assume God is the source of everything, he must be the source of science too.
@@RTGallows You could say that, but would have no good reason to. Or were you being sarcastic?
16:06
Eve is so good for asking that question, the silence was marvelous.
That silence is Brian's brain struggling with its cognitive dissonance. Makes me think of the Simon & Garkunkel song.
Bro, when she interrupted Brian saying “Why should we care?” I spit out my delicious pimiento cheese & wheat thins lololol
*Join the Enlightenment, support Secular Humanism.*
I knew no one would join the Pessimists' Organization of Outcast People... Might as well.
Too late. I joined the Cthulhu Cult already.
And I just don't think I have it in me to be in TWO movements at once. I'm no superman, I just don't have that kind of energy, especially lately...
@@kentonbaird1723 also the cult membership came with a free mug and a cult robe
@@destinystrapper So true, so true. It's really hard to just take generous and thoughtfully given merch like that and just throw it back n someone's face, y'know? It's just uncouth.
I feel like this is the first time Brian's been confronted with critical thinking...
I really like Eves approach. She asks questions that expose the cracks in a persons claim. This poor called came off as rube based on his own words. Thank you for a good show.
OMG, Brian's brilliant. If only I figured this out sooner. I believe I'm the richest person in (I was going to say the world, but hell, this works so well, I might as well go for broke) the universe. Wow, I just erased all my debts, I'll let the bank know in the morning. Oh shoot it'll be Sunday, I can't tell them. Oh, wait, I'll believe it's Monday. Wow, this is great. This works in everything. I believe the fence in my backyard is impenetrable, and my dogs will never get out again, not that it matters cause if someone complained or got bit, if just refuse to believe in them.
I believe you! Hey! Can I borrow like $50 million?
By the way, that backyard fence is working great. Beautiful dogs…
@@robertacierno2803coming right up, I'll throw in a bonus 50 quadrillion just cause. Spend it wisely.
@@robertacierno2803thanks so much, der the bestest in the universe. And some you're so nice, I believe in you, too.
@@visforvegan8 so then, can you believe that $50 mill over my way?
Take a sip of water after every “it seems to me” statement. Stay hydrated!
Eve, you are a legend!🎉
11:09 c’mon Forrest, everyone knows that unicorns make an ‘aaah-roooooogah’ sound. Now you’re just trolling us.
With how much easily accesible content is available on UA-cam now, it's crazy to me how there's still a debate over things like the Bible supporting slavery.
They actively tell their followers the internet is run by Satan
And if you substitute "Satan" for "being held accountable to reality", then yeah, I get why they're so afraid of it
Brian - MN ...
You replied to other vids commenting on your calls, so if you see this one I sincerely wish you'd be honest with yourself. You make one "subjective" justification after another that makes it so obvious you believe in the Christian god ... just because you want to. That's it - that's all there is here.
I really wish you could honestly ask yourself, "why do I believe?" Because there's no way you'd apply the same types of reasons you gave for your God belief to anything else.
So what's the REAL reason, Brian? For most people, I'd say it's probably fear - of death, of lost identity, whatever.
What's yours?
Eve absolutely NAILED this call.
Good call, at least Brian actually thought about his questions.
Not really. Brian has mush brain.
Brian is grinding his brain gears.
what brain??
*Brian gears
It’s a potent smell lol
Morality is a social construction. Morality results from rational choices. Morality results from a complex interaction of genes, neural processes, and social interactions. Hence the origins of morality are both neural and social.
I have to say, Brian was a relatively good sport. It seemed like he paused and listened and tried to process what was being said to him. Considering how entrenched religious beliefs are, getting the needle to move at all is a good sign that he was actually thinking and not just falling back on his script.
He's called in a hundred times with different names. He's not listening to anything other than his beliefs.
@@ChainsawChristmas Ah, ok. I wonder why they continue to let him talk once they know it’s him again.
I didn't get that at all. It seemed like his pauses were to try to formulate a response that would avoid admitting to what was obvious or would avoid answering the question directly.
@@ChainsawChristmas Oh, didn't realise he had called under different names. Just commented to point out BRian calling two months after this to make exactly the same point.
@@leonardpaulson Maybe they haven't sussed it. Also Brian not getting aggressive or abusive would help; behaving badly is likely to get you looked at more quickly I would expect.
This guy has no idea what objective means.
His friend “cognitive dissonance “ was in the room with him causing all the delay in answering yes or no questions
Forrest and Eve are so awesome together. I could watch them for hours and hours
Theists: "I've heard other theists on this show get humiliated, but if *I* go on and make the exact same arguments, this time they'll be convinced!"
The caller is using a coherence theory of truth instead of a correspondence theory.
When they say "true" they are not meaning the same thing as normal people.
Yep. He also is unaware of this or at least poor at explaining it. He probably has listened to many people talk in this way. Maybe JP likes of people. Which IMO, leads to mental brain rot.
Yep, similar to how Christians misunderstand how people use "faith" or "believe". The same word can be used differently.
I think this caller was another poe, like “mark from austin stone church” who used to call into ACA. All his talking points and arguments weren’t genuine, they’re all cliche and caller could easily have heard from listening to calls from previous shows. I think some skeptics are just really good at playing devil’s advocate, because they enjoy trolling, and sorry to admit but there are a lot of skeptics watching this show who are easily fooled.
I love that he believes the Bible tells him to constantly be learning……but he hasn’t learned enough to know whether or not Forest is a unicorn.
Eve and Forest. After watching this video I have bumped you two to the first and second positions of my all time heroes list. thanks for your dedication and time.
Man made it to control man
Men made it to control other men and to control woman in a much harsher way.
@@ganndeber1621 Bingo! I can't speak for all religions, but that's certainly the hallmark of the Abrahamic religions.
Man made religion because we are highly social/tribal. Controlling and sheep being controlled is human nature.
1970 I did an essay on how the romans used the new Christian cult to control the country’s they could no longer control by force and it was more cost effective to use priest’s to frighten village after village throughout the romans world and they money via churches rolled in to Rome. I was sent to the RI teacher. she didn’t even try to convince me otherwise. She was a typical English Sunday school teacher back then religious instruction was a full time teaching role. In the uk. For the next 4 years I was her favourite student. Because I listened in class and thought about it. But always came up with questions she couldn’t answer.
“I can’t determine whether or not Forrest is a unicorn, but I for sure know God exists.”
His argument wasnt that he knows god exists, it was that he _believed_ god exists, so to him subjectively, god _does_ exist, and he thought it was a beneficial belief. The unicorn bit was probably a language thing, like how some people think water is "agua", some people could put Forrest into an arbitrary category of "unicorn".
Ik it's frustrating when theists misinterpret us but we shouldn't misinterpret them.
Ok this was my first “eve” episode. Huge fan, big brain there. And nod to forest who kept his big brain/mouth (mostly) in check, allowing a much more powerful combo! Seriously, what a powerful duo!!!
You can tell immediately that some people have never questioned their beliefs and have never investigated what the scientific method actually is nor have they actually read the Bible while trying to understand it. The caller was nice and was willing to try to listen and answer questions as truthfully as possible, but you can tell that he realized that he had to tiptoe around certain uncomfortable subjects that he probably never considered.
Being from the Midwest, there are few times when our religious beliefs were ever even allowed to be questioned. Doing so often ended in ridicule. I was always concerned if I started openly expressing my discontent for the Bible that my community and family would ridicule me or outcast me. So a lot of people refuse to question simply because of the fear of consequences when they do and keep lying to themselves pretending it makes sense so they don’t lose their community. At least that’s how I felt.
"thats a really good question"
Ok, answer it.
"What was the question?"
Brian proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Forrest is a unicorn.
Now that we know this, we need to remember to keep up to date with his annual vaccinations. DAMN - he heard me! Now we'll never lure him into his crate.
He’s thoroughly confused lol… He’s literally questioning his faith and then running back to it a second later because he thought of some random excuse. The long silences were hilarious 😂😂
I love the way Eve and Forrest work together. So many kind points made clearly.
Caller: "one of the things Christianity advocates is learning as much as you can." Genesis 2:17: "But of the tree of knowledge...thou shalt not eat".
WHOA , he said ‘skeptical’ thought? Hooray! You’re making progress!❤
Step one: insult all of science
Step 2: funny hats
29:50 Exactly! Eve, you say aloud the things I have been silently shouting so many times listening these conversations.
People say they get "absolute moral" from the Bible but they choose which parts of the Bible are moral and which parts are not. It is so obvious and crazy that I just can't stand it. Thank you for saying it aloud here.
The Life of Brian in real life. "Always look on the bright side of life" whistle ,whistle,whistle etc.
People call this show to get beat up, I’m convinced
Brian needs a hug... and adult supervision...
I never cease to be amazed by people who unironically believe that believing in something manifests it in the real world. Like that claim is so obviously not true, even toddlers understand that it isn't true
But people really really WANT it to be true. Right? So all it takes, in many instances, is for someone to come along and say, "Why son, you're in luck today. Because it really is true, believe me."
"...if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.'"
- Jesus (Matthew 17:20)
@@rclrd1 Y'know, I don't think I've ever seen a mountain just . . . move.
Maybe all christians just suck.
The Hebrews quote about faith, while pretty language, always sounded little better than gibberish to me
@@kentonbaird1723 To be fair, it generally takes millions of years for mountains to relocate, so let's not pull the plug on the faith demonstration just yet.
"I think you have to take the Bible with a bit of common sense."
So, you need to apply a subjective filter to the "objective truth / moral"?
I have issues understanding how they never see the glaring flaws in their arguments...
it is impossible to reason somebody out of a belief they did not get into by reason.
Religion causes brain-rot.
I'm not a Biblical scholar but "I think you have to take the Bible with a bit of common sense" is not at all applicable. The Bible says "lean not on your own understanding" if memory serves. And I can almost guarantee that no holy scripture from ANY religion begins with "take this with a grain of salt". 🤔 Also when Eve asked Brian where he got that "common sense" with which he should read the Bible I was waiting for him to take the bait and say "from God" and he did not disappoint! 🙂Because the books about God - the very "Words of God" & inspired by God - would totally want you to second-guess and cherry-pick between what the Bible says and what it really means. But at least Brian was somewhat honest in his floundering. Most Christians would say that "The Holy Spirit/The Spirit of Discernment" is how they figure out what is literal and what is metaphor/prophetic language (thanks Frank Turek!)/allegory/hyperbole/etcetera.
Oh boy, this was painful to listen to.
The caller obviously started to realize how ridiculous his arguement was, and instead of conceding that his arguement was silly, he decided hunker down because that would mean that his god is made up (and not objective) based on the premise of his own argument 😅
The claim that the Bible advocates for skeptical thought is one of the most bald faced lies I've ever heard about the Bible. If you can claim that with a straight face you shouldn't be calling into an atheist talk show, you should be receiving your Academy Award
Pastors and ministers love these believers. So can live a life of luxury . By the way you two together are fantastic.
Love it as the pauses get longer and longer between his answers. Great technique by Eve and Forrest.
both these hosts very very very good
The potential beneficial impact of youtube is beautifully reflected right here. Sensitive topics can be explored more openly and honestly between those on one side or another in a proper manner.
My assumptions make the world exist, and when I die, the world will cease to exist unless there is a blood sacrifice!
I just prepared a fresh steak. It was a little bloody.
And, as I am a self-proclaimed prophet, I hereby decree that the sacrifice is made! It's not bad, either.
This sacrifice for eternal life idea comes from the fact that something must die for us to live as everything we eat was alive which gives us life. Life from life is an ancient concept.
Wow I may be recall listening to Eve once or twice before but she really outdid herself here. She came from a sympathetic and understanding point of view that not just tries to merely embarrass the caller but really make them think beyond what their religion feeds them.
I literally felt the moments the guy's gears were turning in his head when you told him hes more moral than the bible and hes a good person in spite of it 🎉🎉
Like realized, "You mean I don't have to make my sky daddy proud?"
The dude wasn't prepared. Great team!
An embarrassment to Brians everywhere. Just like Bryan from last night. We're not all irrational immoral theists, some of us are left-handed.
Eve makes a great point about the alternate God hypothesis, if you never evaluate religion under any scrutiny you're just putting yourself that much more at risk of accepting false teachings
Objective morality. Nope. Slavery. Mic drop
Eve is so kind and caring! She is now one of my favorite hosts! 😍
You both cooked SO HARD on this one, it was hilarious. Thankyou.
"It seems to me..."
That Brian hasn't actually questioned his indoctrination before.
What a dum dum.....
he truly thinks that by wanting to believe in something....that that makes it real. I dont think even HE thinks this. I just think he's digging in his little tippy toes because he knows he's been cornered and like a 10 year old child ,he refuses to admit when he is OBVIOUSLY wrong.
As a PhD mathematician, I thought the caller, Brian, started out initially being correct about assumptions regarding science and mathematics. However, he then quickly failed spectacularly, specifically by attempting to paint religion and science with the same brush. What is the difference, then? ... The difference is that certain assumptions are necessary for survival - such as assuming logic and assuming reality, as Matt Dillahunty famously and smartly defended. However, this does not mean that all assumptions are necessary, such as that a god must exist.
The big question I had was why Brian did not understand the difference. Motivated reasoning, anyone?
You don't need a PhD in mtah to know Brian failed spectacularly...
I can't even spell it😜
I'm just someone who digs holes for a living and figured that out 😂
That said I dig my holes because I'm a historian and archaeologist 😁
Side note...
PhD holding historian and archaeologist 😁
If you listen really closely, you can actually hear Brian's subconscious begging, "Pwease don't make me think about that. 🥺👉👈"
This guy has presented the most well spoken weak-ass argument for a god that I have ever heard.
And another thing: Brian is the epitome of “the deer in the headlights.” 🦌
Brian is the deer in the headlights that panics and jumps into the roadside canal full of hungry alligators! 😱🦌🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊
This is the best and most entertaining argument against, christianity, the bible and god I've ever listened to, even surpassing Traci Harris.
You guys did a great job with this conversation.
Great rational push back on this caller, who struggled with back philosophically sound concepts and knowledge of the bible.
You 2 are fantastic at what you do thank you. ❤
Eve's line, "If you objectively followed the Bible you would be 'wanted' in most countries" - an all-time classic.
He is such a nice guy. I hope he continues to think about things without it jeopardizing his health.
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods and they are unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius
Except you can't really know what virtues are virtues. The world are full of dilemmas with no clear virtue. How do you choose between two drowning people if you only can save one?
It a brilliant defense for stoicism but ultimately flawed as it doesn't solve the dilemmas of this world any better than other philosophies.
@@KurtFrederiksenDude, yes you can, just not always. There will probably always be moral dilemmas, but the more clear cut cases surely far out number them
@@dwightfitch3120 "but the more clear cut cases surely far out number them" No, there are not. That's information bias as you already have applied your own set of morality to make that determination. Every 'clear cut' case end up in a multitude of dilemmas the moment you take a look at them. You are constantly dealing with dilemmas by giving them new categories to make exceptions. 'Thou shall not kill' - Oh, but that only apply to humans not the animals you eat. So you solved the dilemma by putting animals in another category. You are constantly navigating dilemmas this way, splitting virtues into what you consider actual virtues and the exceptions of an other category.
To live a truly noble virtues life, you must live without dilemmas or you can't truly say you were virtues in every aspect of your life. Are you your brothers keeper? Do you protect him at all cost or is there a point where the cost becomes to great?
In the end you tried to bypass the original moral issue by making the distinction between 'the clear cut cases' and 'the dilemmas'. Either your virtues holds true for all cases or they aren't virtues at all. You either have virtues you follow or a case by case decision process. If patience is a virtue, then how long do you wait? I will claim that whatever length of time you set you should have waited +1 second longer to claim it as a virtue. The same goes for your 'clear cut case', you should have asked one more question.
again, getting to objective morality by subjectively choosing a subjective god. Brian is exhausting to listen to