Christian Caller Thinks Objective Morality PROVES His God | Eve & Forrest Valkai
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Original Episode Here: ua-cam.com/users/liveA04bAsjMpVg
Elijah argues that objective morality proves God's existence. Hosts Forrest and Eve challenge this claim, asking for evidence and proposing alternative sources of morality. The conversation becomes heated as Elijah frequently interrupts and fails to provide direct answers. Key debates include the source of morality, whether non-religious people can have moral standards, and how to prove objective morality exists. The call ends with the hosts expressing frustration at Elijah's debate tactics and unwillingness to engage in productive dialogue.
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When Forrest started doing these shows, he was very patient with the callers. Now I understand why Matt is always cussing people out.
As was Matt, if you look back at the first few years he was on. Nothing seemed to register on an emotional level with him.
Matt is allergic to BS and Forrest is being groomed to step into his shoes
@@nobs997 There's no role that needs filled. Forrest is fine being Forrest.
Fully understandable. Explaining for the 253 time what Atheism, Morality, Bible contradictions, Evolution, . . . . . is. It does get very frustrating over time.
Matt used to be chill. He does get a lot more hateful harassment from those loving theists on social media now though.
To this dude's fiance, "GET OUT IF AND WHILE YOU STILL CAN!".
Right? Dude is about to marry a Black woman, and he's struggling to say slavery is wrong. Yikes, man...
C’mon now. She could be just as obtuse. They could be a perfect couple!:)
and what makes you think his fiance doesn't think the same bullshit? huh? you don't even know her.
@@davidmarquart3912 exactly. Kevin wrote a dumb comment
@@Zeppyzavattieri Thank you for your kind words. I'm more inclined to think this fiance "goes to a different school", but, FYI, it's good advice, regardless.
"God has revealed himself..." Every single god in the history of mankind has revealed a grand total of absolutely nothing.
Hehehe so true.
Yep
Aren't there laws against indecent exposure?
They used to pop up all the time, funny that the time all these miracles stopped happening co-insided with the invention of cameras
God has revealed himself.... and is now on a registry... 😉
People who seriously asking "What's wrong with harming people" genuinely scare me
But atheists have that in them too. And they have nothing to appeal to to show them it’s wrong. Look at history. People are definitely ok with harming people if they say it’s for a good cause
@@brycemannn4847
And what do theists have to show them that it is wrong? Absolutely nothing.
@Diviance
They can't all be right.
But they can all be wrong.
So there is an absolute morality but we can't know what it is because they are different ones.
@@Diviancethe creator of the universe tells you it’s wrong. It’s his creation. He is not a subject among subjects. Imagine you created a video game and you wanted the characters to go through this door .. this is the right door . But some of the characters are talking to themselves and they think they can decide what’s right and wrong. Which door to go through. They will even conclude that any god imposing morality on me doesn’t deserve my respect. After all I’m me right… I think ultimately without god all morality will boil down to autonomy and consent. Cause we think we’re the gods. But meanwhile all the people who trusted the creator of the video game keep going through the right door. They don’t want to bend morality to their opinion. They feel a duty rather than
@@brycemannn4847
"the creator of the universe tells you it’s wrong. It’s his creation. He is not a subject among subjects."
*He is still a subject and why should I care what this "creator" says?*
"Imagine you created a video game and you wanted the characters to go through this door .. this is the right door . But some of the characters are talking to themselves and they think they can decide what’s right and wrong. Which door to go through. They will even conclude that any god imposing morality on me doesn’t deserve my respect."
*A complete nonsense analogy.*
"After all I’m me right… I think ultimately without god all morality will boil down to autonomy and consent. Cause we think we’re the gods. But meanwhile all the people who trusted the creator of the video game keep going through the right door. They don’t want to bend morality to their opinion. They feel a duty rather than"
*This is incoherent nonsense.*
*With "God", you are saying that all of morality is just whatever the God says. It is the opinion of the God... which makes it subjective.*
*So why should I care what the God says? Why should I act in accordance to what your God wants?*
My biggest frustration with this call is that Elija CLEARLY respects Forrest, waits until he is done talking with little interjection and few interruptions but he steamrolls over Eve like she isn't allowed to speak to him at all.
It's *so* friggin' painful.
He is a presuppositionalist, fundamentalist Christian.
He almost certainly thinks she shouldn't be speaking to him with any authority.
It’s because she challenged his god claim
Its also because Forrest doesnt allow him to continue as much as Eve does.
@brandonevans2588 I think it's more like he's just rude and selfish. I had trouble getting through this video because they didn't lose it over him talking as soon as they started talking. I would have dropped him less than half way through the call
This guy has spousal abuse written all over him.
he hates women. you can argue he hates everyone and himself most of them all
And both hosts of the show have "i have a false rape story allegation" written all over them, AND they them pronouns or what ever else psychos call themselves now.......
Stupid does not equal abuser
@@Theproclaimed No, but constantly talking over a woman raises that flag somewhat.
He definitely acts more harshly, and more disrespectfully toward Eve. He interrupts Forrest too.
He makes a great case for why Christianity is inhumane.
Wow. He needs a book to restrain himself from hurting people? Wow.
At least he doesn't read his book or else he would find out that he is sanctioned to hurt certain people.
@@jamesparsonSo ironic 😂
I personally have debated with people online who claim to be good Christians, yet hold that: that if it weren't for the Bible that _they_ would be homicidal lunatics. And then they try to say that *I* have no moral compass.
Wow shocker someone who makes playlists of anti trump news also watches atheist channels. Wow.
@@cryptochris9001 Next up. An Evangelical is going to have a list of pro Trump videos.
“My morality is: Don’t be a dick” - Forrest.
Amen.
Argumentative, arrogant, no regard for people who don't share his views.
Typical Bible believer
@@Wilhelm-100TheTechnoAdmiral No, typical human being. Everyone has core beliefs they think are irrefutable and no amount of persuading will change their minds. So it can be argued that everyone is argumentative, arrogant, and has no regard for people who don't share their views depending on the topic.
@@Temulon That's amazing. Every single word you just said is wrong. Just because a bunch of people are irrational doesn't mean all humans are.
@@Temulon Is this a belief that you can never be persuaded from?
@@Krikenemp18 Yes. For example, I believe that chattel slavery, owning another person as property, is wrong and always will be wrong. I'll never change my mind about that. The person above, Wilhelm-100TheTechnoAdmiral, apparently believes that no one has core beliefs except those who are irrational. Go figure
Christian morality is 100% subjective to the mind of their god
Aka, the morality of the primitive men when they wrote the book
couldn't agree more. 1 Samuel 15: 1-3 demonstrates your point very well.
And they freely admit it 😢
Theist following the evil Christian God's immoral orders is no different than all the Christian Nazi's following Hitlers evil orders.
@@sarahchristine2345actually, no, it’s just their own stance or that of an authority figure they follow.
If there's one thing the caller hates it's people who talk whilst he interrupts them.
Yeah, he's the best example of why they should always mute all callers while they're talking XD
Elija can't stand it when the middle of the hosts' sentence interrupts the beginning of his.
“I know what will convince these atheists: constant disrespect!”
Elija is a dangerous human being.
I certainly don't want him as a neighbor.
Actually I thought he was kind of an ahole who just happens to be a theist.
Mostly just dangerously stupid and arrogant.
he's def the type to do harm to others cause gawd dun told him to
Secular Communism killed more than religion.
I have yet to hear a christian caller on The Line or The Atheist Experience who isn't totally clueless.
There are occasional learned ones who have at least READ the book they purport to be true, and can wait until the other person has finished speaking, lol
Because the only way to be religious is to be ignorant.
Christians that aren't totally clueless either know they cannot back their belief whatsoever and they'll get destroyed if they ever debate it, or they aren't christians anymore.
Or they become preachers to the clueless people and make bank
Then why are you still here? Go somewhere else and listen to more educated and professional theologians. They can tackle these topics in more academic ways.
@@Conan_the_rastafarian No they cannot. Not a single religious person can answer any of these questions with honesty because faith is inheretly dishonest.
I hate when the callers are just disrespectful and combative. This guy was terrible. Very bad witness for his god and his religion.
I'd say he's average
If we’re basing our morality on the god of the Old Testament, we are doomed
We would no longer exist.
@@MrCanis4 maybe that's the basis for their version of the flood story, not that the people was evil but that they didn't want to follow the morals of their god so wipe them out even the innocent babies and animals, well not all the animals they need some for food and the others to sacrifice in praise to the adjudicator of their moral compass without whom they are completely lost
And by this caller's logic Christians ARE basing their morality on Judaism/much of the Old Testament. He did say that if you borrow from another previously established religion - like Islam did with Christianity - you are effectively following the laws of the religion you borrow from. Ergo Christianity is really just following Judaism's laws/morality. Am I wrong? This also brings up another point - if some Christians & Jews tout "Judeo/Christian values" (like Dennis Prager for example) are there are Muslims who tout "Christian/Muslim" values? Or even dare I ask it "Judeo/Christian/Muslim" values? I would posit that any American who yearns for a Christian theocracy is really doing just that when you really think about it. Just my 2 cents.
Elija must have a mind like a serene pond on a windless morning. Undisturbed by thought or input. Must be nice
"Ignorance is bliss"
I love how poetic and mesmerizing you make it
@@Hi-bp2mv *meditation tape voice* imagine a still winter pond, still as the mind of a presuppositionalist. Placid as the thoughts of someone fully convinced without worry of evidence..."
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@TheNihonjin Stop cooking 😂 he's roasted already
I"d have asked this caller ...
"How can there be an objective morality from the Christian God, when there are so many variations of Christianity that all have their own interpretation of God's morality?"
Exactly. And ALL have the claim THEY do it right and the others do it wrong.
And no christian of any denomination cares what the others think, all that counts is that YOU are right, that you OWN The Truth.
(when you OWN The Truth, you do not need to KNOW the truth)
@@feedingravens Yeah, and also many Christians discard God's "morality" anyway, especially when it's no longer socially acceptable. The 7th Commandment for example (adultery). When was the last time you heard a Christian public figure speak about that? I can't remember the last time.
And for good reason. Some churches would lose half their parishioners if they still enforced it.
They might say that man’s inability to know morality doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I don’t think objective morality exists, but even if it did, god would have nothing to do with it. God couldn’t make setting babies on fire moral. God’s morals might coincide with objective morality, but god doesn’t get to pick what is and isn’t moral.
@@drzaius844 But isn't the hypothetical inability to know morality a defeater to the argument that they have objective morality? Wouldn't objective morality have to be demonstrated before being asserted, and since there is an inability to know, doesn't that necessarily mean it can't be demonstrated?
I struggle to find how this argument doesn't just boil down to "I'm right because I said I'm right and you're wrong because I said you're wrong". (But just because I struggle with that doesn't mean I'm right)
Edit: Changed "that" to "objective morality" so the subject is unambiguous.
I would have asked about his example, the one where he claims the Japanese saw the emperor as divine. If religion or god is the source of morality, then its not a good one since they, according to him, followed their religion to rape and murder.
Islamic terrorists follow a morality that flows from their religion.
There are people who domestically abuse their wife because they believe they have the authority to physically discipline their partner based on religion.
Same for any religion including human sacrifice.
Matt dilahunty was right. Just tell them to shut up and mute them.
You can also let them rambling along so that the world can see what religion can do to you.
@@MrCanis4 this whole program has been running for more than 20 years, not only The Line, but the Atheist Experience and Talk Heathen, have all revealed how stupid these people are. The whole purpose is to invite a single person with concrete evidence of their claim of an existence of a god and not one has done it. Actually the more I hear these christian, the more I hate despise them.
Exactly! These theists are insufferable.
Yep, people can cry about how Matt handles people like this all they want, his approach improves the calls and cuts the bs hatefull people off like they should have been years earlier in their life.
@@Magnusfication Exactly. People being polite to the BS, is validation to theist spouting it. "They want to listen to me, so I must be right!". Yes, that is their logic.
I'm always reminded of Matt Dilahunty's position on these things. The rules of chess are entirely made up, however, within those made up rules you can make objectively better or worse moves. If the person you're playing chess with doesn't care about those rules, then there is no point in playing.
If the caller doesn't care about using the subjective starting point of reducing harm to other thinking beings, then a discussion of morality is effectively pointless.
Reducing harm to others and even to oneself has proven to be a beneficial trait in our species because it enhances our collective reproductive fitness (still within the context of biological evolution being a blind driving force). With the advent of technology to tame nature and the human animal dwelling in all sorts of creature comforts because of it there is no more need to view other groups of humans as competition and as "enemies" thus more morality of the positive kind can be derived.
My greatest frustrations in life are manifest in trying to reason with people who:
1. incessantly interrupt, talk over me, lie, and make excuses for refusing to entertain facts, realities, and ethical ideals they don’t like.
2. blame their victims for the pain, suffering, and hardships they inflict on them.
3. cannot distinguish between reality and imagination, confidently pretending to know a reality they cannot possibly know.
4. vilify, hate, ostracize, harm, and shun others who are different only because they are different.
5. insist they are divinely entitled to forcibly micromanage the lives of others.
The amount this guy interrupts is just ridiculous. Especially interrupting Eve. Any time the hosts got to a point of showing him where his position made no sense he interrupted and waffled off into the weeds about WW2 or some other genocide. I guess that's just his way of deflecting an argument he doesn't want to hear.
The christian patriarchy has no reason or desire to respect women, unfortunately. People like this make it very hard to watch these videos (maybe because I live in the most conservative parish in Louisiana, where I'm a woman surrounded by people like this.)
His constant noise when others were talking was very annoying.
And more especially annoying because of his sexist bias.
I wish he'd just have been more honest and started yelling "Lalalalalala I'm not listening" at least the pantomime could have been cut short sooner.
97% of germans in 1933 were christians when Hitler was elected. Just a few tenths of a percent were atheists back then.
So being a christian Nazion that just 15 years before had had a Kaiser that was chosen be God through the church (as all kings are, up to King Charles. The churches ALWAYS collaborate with those in power, as now the russian orthodox church with Putin)
So the church had zero influence in the Third Reich to lessen the atrocities.
Theists are their own worst enemies when it comes to trying to convince anyone of anything.
Most of their arguments only work on believers.
Your username made me lol 😂
Callers don't seem to understand that the hosts can interrupt whenever they want.
Especially when the caller is gish galloping.
And the hosts can mute the caller whenever they want.
Mutual respect
Yeah that is like if I went into someone's house then complained I had to follow their rules.
why cant the caller stop talking, so frustrating, they shouldnt have kept letting him say "right" every other word that they said.
Lack of intelligence
Elija does this thing that a lot of Southern people do which drives me crazy, where he thinks just because he's not swearing that means he's being polite. Meanwhile he talks over Eve every chance he gets and interrupts every sentence just to repeat the same wrong assertion
Someone once said to me "If it wasn't for my fear of god I could happily, kill someone." I replied "I have no believe or fear of god, and I could not kill anyone." People like that scare the sh*t out of me.
isnt it amazing how these people can believe in a fairy-tail with all its made up stories like its objectively true, and yet the second you ask them to imagine a hypothetical they short out and cant comprehend how to use their imagination
Fairytale.
My basis for morality is simple; don't be a dick.
Why?
Isn't cruelty natural?
@@thevulture5750 in your man-made book it is i.e. drowning the whole planet and smashing infants off rocks
@@thevulture5750so is mutual cooperation; it’s natural for humans to
@@vaughnhelthira1704 is racism also?
Is trying to force others to live by your notion of democracy natural?
@@thevulture5750 Who told you cruelty is natural?
Also racism isn't natural whatsoever, it's taught. Distrust of foreign people you've never seen isn't racism, which is what children go through when meeting them, as it's unknown people to them, that's a natural, this can happen with people in your own country.
Let me pull up the short definition for you: "The belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another". The best point you can make is tribes dehumanizing other tribes as a way to justify killing each other, that's "natural", but not racism.
You do realize race is a social construct and not a real thing right? Don't take it from me, take it from biologists themselves. Forrest himself has a video on this.
Democracy isn't natural. Where tf are you trying to get at?
Your entire point falls apart the moment you realize that cruelty isn't natural, because it's not a thing. We decide that X kind of behavior is cruel. You're free to tell me when did the universe tell you that cruelty exists, morality for that matter.
Annoying caller.
I would have dropped him so quick after the constant interruptions.
Luckily, the hosts are now patient than me.
If he got matt he would've been dropped in the first 10 mins
He is very hard to listen to and just doesn't listen to anyone else.
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite his accent doesnt help either
@@Magnusfication no, it doesn't
Morals prove god
So his basic argument is basically "I know you are but what am i"
LOLLL Pretty much! According to them, as long as Eve and Forrest had written a book, carved its words in stone, or something similar, only then would their morals be "valid". For some reason T by Holly Bibble is perfectly fine despite being written solely or "through" humans, so logically anything anyone else writes is good too. Mostly concerning you need a book to tell you how to be moral instead of simply wanting to be a good person, but whatever
So sad that any human needs to look to a book to make them a good person. 😢
Books have lots of interesting things on morality and ethics. You are almost arguing for objective morality from some kind of internal device.
So sad that people bend morality to conform to themselves. They make themselves gods. How many times will we learn this lesson. God help us
@@whyarealltaken - I was referring to the bible. It doesn't have anything of value in it regarding morals.
I forgot, only Jesus is allowed to make himself god. /s
@@brycemannn4847which god are you talking about? Humans created thousands of them.
A disingenuous liar from Texas, hmm so odd 😂😂😂😂
Hey. Some of us Texans are fully ingenuous liars.
don't forget sexist.
“His you will pay in the end” belief is a key component of Christian “love.”
Called justice
@@brycemannn4847
Injustice.
You spelled it wrong.
God judging every soul after they die is the right thing to do. People are forgiven but judgement still must happen
@@cryptochris9001
What makes it right? Why must judgement still happen?
Are you saying that God must obey laws?
@@brycemannn4847 odd way to spell delusion.
Elijah is so annoying. Freaking close your mouth and make yourself quiet until The host has finished speaking! It's really very simple. It's called common courtesy. Elijah!
And he has the nerve to get mad at them for talking over *him.*
Majorly lacking in self awareness.
@@ragg232 Double standards, because they wouldn't have any standards without them.
Yeah, there's one thing with delay, but after the second time, it's obviously intentionally talking over.
Theyre always so fast to play the victim card. Christianity in particular but religion in general is arrogance masquerading as humility. Its revolting.
But if he stopped talking, he'd have to listen.
“What do you base your morality on?”
Common fucking sense. Hurting people is bad because I know what it feels like to be hurt, it’s not that complex
And helping people is good because when people help me I feel good.
Morality is based on the golden rule. Treat others the way you want to be treated. You wouldn't like it if you got stabbed so you know stabbing someone is wrong.
@@MagiRemmie I prefer the inverse of it. Do not treat others how you do not want to be treated.
Keeping "do" in both cases can lead to... uh... funny situations when you have people with... uh... odd behaviors ("I like seeing naked people, let's indecently expose myself to others!").
You'd be surprised to realize that a lot of the moral intuitions and views you hold are far from being "common sense"
@@pythondrink I'm curious, like what?
No one has ever demonstrated that objective moral values even exist let alone that a god is needed for them.
No, but the very few people that believe objective moral values DON'T exist are terrified to admit it, because it means they have to say some truly abominable actions are really inherently no different than actions that are worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize. How many people are really up for admitting stuff like that? It would instantly kill a political career in ANY society. Deservedly so in my opinion.
@@theboombody
I'd argue that most people accept that empathy is subjective and that it doesn't matter that it is.
People who pretend objective morals use that to excuse all manner of immoral behaviour. Look at Westboro Church for example. And people attacking abortion clinics.
@@nealjroberts4050 One-sided argument. Both you and I know people can use objective morality, relative morality, and nihilistic morality to justify some pretty awful stuff. You really think moral nihilists never make it a practice to excuse all manner of immoral behavior?
@@theboombodythe relative and nihilists don't pretend they have the creator of the universe backing them
@@echiko4932 A lot of times people conform (or at least try to conform) their feelings to what they are told are the already established principles of the creator of the universe. They don't try to come up with their own feelings of morality on a whim and THEN pretend the creator of the universe is backing those. Some people try that garbage and deserve the ridicule they get for doing so.
Fed up with Apologist who keep claiming that morality only counts if it is branded by their God. Like people who will buy crappy overpriced sneakers just because they have a Nike logo. When I would research all available alternatives available.
I maintain that I'm not wearing obvious labels unless they pay me to. I'm not paying for the privilege of advertising for them.
Bro's like "When that Chinese Emperor said his way was moral that's wrong. Now when my god says it... it's right... because he said so."
Elijah is nuts
Way too kind.
He is religious….
This nasty man Elijah seems to be a complete bully . Feel very sorry for his future wife although she may be a good fit , I suppose.
Crazy
I can't impose my moral standard on you and hold you accountable? Hell yes I can. We do it all the time in court. For example, we lock up Christian parents who use prayer as a doctor replacement. Now the caller could change that imposition to justification, but justifications are subjective, so the caller is wrong either way.
"in my worldview, truth is defined as coming from God, therefore when you make a truth claim you're just appealing to God."
How do people think this is remotely convincing?
It would be convincing if you could prove the existence of a god - AND prove that there are no other gods. Even the Ten Commandments
says "thou shall not worship any other gods" (possibly paraphrasing here). Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but the commandment does not say "those other gods are false gods" or "I am the ONLY god that exists". IMHO it acknowledges that there are indeed other gods that exist, but that you shouldn't worship them.
Did anyone else laugh out loud towards the end when Eve said, "I broke all of the ten commandments," and this knucklehead was like "just now?"
As another commenter said, it's amazing how much effort they put into defending a fairytale yet they can't wrap their brains about the simplest metaphor or thought experiment.
Why can’t people listen to the end of a sentence or a question? The audacity is mind blowing!
This caller and millions of others like him will be surely voting for Trump on election day, and other Republicans in lower offices, this is why it is so imperative to vote. People not voting allowed Republicans to en masse enough power to make theocrat Mike Johnson the Speaker of the House. You got to vote
Darth Dawkins follower 100%.
They all really think his presup “because I say so” argument is actually coherent.
Darth owns you
@@c0ax lemme guess…because he says so? 😂🤣😂
Escape the cult buddy 😘
cOax is lost in the sauce
moral arguement -
The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100-2050 BCE. Wikipedia
The Code of Hammurabi is a Babylonian legal text composed during 1755-1750 BCE. It is the longest, best-organized, and best-preserved legal text from the ancient Near East. It is written in the Old Babylonian dialect of Akkadian, purportedly by Hammurabi, sixth king of the First Dynasty of Babylon. Wikipedia
So, where are the ten commandments and the arc of the covenant?
There comes a point where it's pointless, and you just have to say, "Bye Elija!"
On one point yes, but first let them show what religion does to people.
When you think you understand philosophy because you listened to a William Lane Craig youtube video . . .
And only got through half of it at that.
Two great hosts ♥️♥️♥️💪💪💪
I love these arrogant and patronizing callers who know the hosts's minds and beliefs better than they do
Objective morality does not exist. Until someone actually admits that, this conversation is pointless.
Nor does it exist in the bible. I wish theists could realize this. At best, they have divine command theory.
sorry, but if someone admits there's no objective morality, how would gthat make a conversation about objective morality stop being pointless?
@@nagranoth_ Because the conversation then becomes about the truth. The destination between morality based on group consensus and a so-called objective morality is important - especially when the caller claims objective morality proves God.
There's no demonstration objective morality exists any more than there's a demonstration that God/s exist.
Accepting that there is no objective morality gets us onto what morality really is and why it's important.
Subjective morality does not exist. Boom
@@c0axyou're in a cult. Boom
It's amazing how much he refuses to let Eve talk. Whata goofball
A woman talking over me. I can't allow that.
@@MrCanis4 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet".
"The bible says this, people back in the day practice it, people nowadays find it disgusting, we reinterpret the very literal and clear message trying to be transmitted so it fits with modern views and finally, we wash our hands saying the millions who lived by those words were not... true believers" - Some apologists, probably.
He is a misogynistic ahole.
I dont want to talk about morality with the people who literally consider themselves to be wretched and always on the edge of committing atrocities.
This guy better not interrupt his partner this much
His wife,
Ellija shut up, I'm talking.
My reason I don't harm people is because I don't want to be harmed.
And I help people because people help me.
Weird, it's almost like the 10 commandments are written on our heart just like Bible says
@@cryptochris9001 None of the 10 commandments say that.
And they explicitly call for you to obey parents that may be harmful to you so it doesn't follow the rule.
@@yggorF stealing harms people, so can the other commandments. Honoring your parents is generally the right thing to do a few examples of crappy parents doesn't negate the commandments
@@cryptochris9001 Yes, it does.
If your parents are abusive to you, you can throw the 10 commandments out the window.
There is no obligation for a child to obedient to their parents.
Also I can freely curse the Lord's name in vein, without feeling any level of guilt. I can worship other Gods without feeling guilt.
The 10 commandments are nonsense, sorry.
Forrest, when he started asking where your morality comes from and who made you arbiter and how you know you're right, you really should have just started answering all of his questions with "Because Roland the Closet Goblin has reveled himself to me!"
What? Who is that, you made that up!
No I didn't, he's real!
Why are you saying he is real?
"Because Roland the Closet Goblin has reveled himself to me!"
Ya that actually would be consistent. That argument would work. Except you don’t believe in the closet goblin.. dang
Elijah is not bright. He's fodder for the predators.
There's no such thing as objective morality, just morality that most of us agree on.
Finally one honest atheist
@@brycemannn4847
So, someone saying the general atheist position... means one honest atheist?
Sounds dishonest to me.
@brycemannn4847
Are you saying that you are a dishonest Athiest?
@@brycemannn4847 More than 80% of the current world population does not believe in YOUR god. All dishonest people?? or is it okay for you to believe in other gods
I'd like to hope most of us agree that hurting people unnecessarily shouldn't be considered a good thing. Things would get awkward if we didn’t.
"god has revealed himself!"
So has Zeus
A real believer, can’t listen, only want to preach. And so convinced from what he believes, he is putting himself above everyone.
He should have been muted every time he interrupted the hosts. Which was often.
Eve...you are way more patient and tactful that I could ever be.
How can you trust a god’s morality if you can’t even trust your own morality?
If morality comes from god it’s by definition subjective because it’s based on his mind.
This is actually the strongest argument on this show or in the comments section that I’ve seen
Ah, so walking up to someone and stealing their belongings being wrong and a rude thing is subjective. Good one.
@@cryptochris9001Nice strawman. Did you build it yourself, or did someone help you?
@@wyldink1 is stealing people's stuff good or not?
@@cryptochris9001 Depends on the context. What was stolen and why?
The nihilist position of not being important dovetails nicely with the virtue of humility and in a world ruled mostly by self important egotists actual humility is a breath of fresh air...
A sure sign of somebody lacking intelligence is someone that constantly interrupts, doesn't listen to the other people in the conversation, or let them have time to make their point.
Your magic book is wrong because my magic book says so.
By not murdering people you prove My magic book is truer than other magic books that say the same thing.
By not murdering people you prove My magic book is truer than other magic books Which say the same thing.
@@uncleanunicorn4571
Ah, and by saying that, you prove _my_ magic book is more true than yours!
@@DivianceActually both your magic books are wrong. I have the one true magic book!
@@Steven_DunbarSL
Hah! My magic book knew you would say that! Truly, it is prophetic!
"im right because i presuppose im right"
It never ceases to amaze me how many people are totally incaple of being honest with themselves and simply saying "I dont know", or "I can't".
1) There is no such thing like objective morality.
2) If there were, the last place you could find it would be in the bible, or any sacred book I've ever read.
3) If there were, any god you can imagine should be tied by this morality: he could not be all powerful.
Finally and honest athiest
@@brycemannn4847 Mmm? Looks like you've something funny to say, like "If there is no objective morality, there is no morality at all." Please elaborate. 😁 Or learn to read.
@@brycemannn4847
...you said "Finally one honest atheist" to another atheist after you made this comment.
So... how can we take you seriously when you lie so blatantly?
@@brycemannn4847Alas, another dishonest theist 🤡
@@brycemannn4847 You post that under any person you consider an atheist regardless of what they actually say. Don't you?
Love these two together
Dishonest , arrogant and disruptive caller . The whole time it was so defective and tu quoque he never managed to answer any of Eve’s questions
My Blood pressure⤴💯
Caller interrupts Eve far more than Forest. That’s misogynistic…
Secular morality is agreed upon as a group, for legal and governmental reasons. And it’s constantly up for debate… which is how governments change hands and vote to change the direction.
It’s never SETTLED. But it’s the best way we have so far.
If objective morality existed no one would be able to be immoral.
That makes no sense. It makes as much sense as if gravity exists nothing could fly. I'm not arguing for any form of theistic morality. Anything based upon something made up has to fail. Its just your statement isn't an argument.
@@josephbelisle5792 Flying doesn't violate the law of gravity or any other law of physics.
??? Please explain
@@brycemannn4847 Because an objective rule can't see broken. It would be prescriptive.
@@michaelhawk6847uh... Interesting. That's the first time I see this point.
Elija is so confident in his ignorance.
These may be the smartest two humans on the planet.
So far, I'm yet to hear someone with the foghorn leghorn accent that sounds sincere.
I am never having a conversation about morality with anyone until they give me their complete definition of morality, and we agree on what we both mean by morality.
Makes sense to me
Won't happen. Morality isn't like science with standardized units. Never will be. Doesn't mean it's worthless and it certainly doesn't mean it isn't important or influential.
@@theboombody
What, exactly, are you claiming "won't happen"?
Is your claim that no two people on Earth agree on a definition of "morality"? If so, how is it that anyone is in general agreement on moral issues at all?
@@cmack17 Morality will never have standardized units.
@theboombody
1. No one, besides you, has mentioned units, neither implicitly or explicitly.
2. Most people who speak about morality most certainly have a definition of morality that they are using. Otherwise, what in hell are they referring to.
Setting that aside...
Notice how you ignored my actual questions and gave a response something that was never referred to.
Very weird.
This is great content, but its very stressful for each of the participants in the discussion.
Thanks for the videos
Drinking game: Take a shot every time the caller talks over the hosts😂
Doing whatever god says to be good is SUBJECTIVE morality. God is the SUBJECT dictating morality. It's subjective morality, and it changes. Even worse than that, it's not even a practice of morality at all, it's following divine command, as in, do what you're told.
It's like Sye Ten Bruggencate and Sye Ten Bruggencate had a baby.
That’s hot! Oh wait…
😜
Forrest and I are on the exact same wavelength.
He tries to justify his belief but just ends up preaching.
Elija is a troll. He has called several times and when ever the host challenges him on any of his assertions he has no intellectual comebacks so he resorts to being a troll.
He ain't a troll because trolls know they're just bullshitting just to have fun or whatever. This guy really thinks he's making sense.
Not a troll at all
I get that the average person isn't extremely intelligent, even more so when it comes to religious people, but these people really aren't sending their best when it comes to call-in shows. These people think their arguments are good but they're really not.
The problem with people who try to argue for their god from a moral standpoint because they can't wrap their heads around the idea that their god isn't real and isn't an objective moral lawgiver. They'll never admit they're wrong.
These interruptions were insane. I almost hung up on this video lol
It's impossible to have a conversation with someone like that. He's just literally incapable of listening and engaging with the topic at hand. So frustrating.
I have no idea how you kept allowing him to interrupt so much
Practice.
I would have ended the call 20 minutes earlier. "Byeeee Elijah!"..click!
Elija (TX), thanks for the Christian pornography. All Christians have authoritarian personalities. ```Hetherington and Weiler describe the authoritarian personality as one that has a greater need for order, and less willingness to tolerate ambiguity as well as a tendency to rely on established authorities to provide that order. They acknowledge that while everyone seeks to bring some semblance of order to their world, non-authoritarian personalities are more likely to use concepts like fairness and equality, instead of the time-honored texts, conventions or leaders that are more common among authoritarian personalities.``` The need for objective morality is the need for authority, even if that authority is a myth or Donald Trump.
“Objective morality proves there’s a God because it requires a source”
But also “we know there’s objective morality because God gives us morality”. It’s entirely circular
"You cannot hold me accountable to your standards"
Oh I absolutely can, that's how laws and society in general works.
Euthyphro dilemma..."Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" Neither answer requires a god(s), which you can't prove exists.
The constant talking over you is such a control technique because these ppl can’t exist if their view doesn’t control everything.
As Matt says, listen not to what they answer but to what they don"t answer.
No fairytale figures needed for morality.