When Bucks Disappear-GPS now reveals where they go!
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Some deer we hunt just vanish off our property and trail cameras.. but why and where do they go? In this Deer IQ clip we discuss a particular buck personality and what was found from collared buck studies at the MSU Deer Lab. Join host Adam Lewis and guest Dr. Bronson Strickland and see the full podcast on collared buck studies HERE: • The Science of Buck Pe...
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Old thread but something everyone misses. The relationship between bucks is constantly changing. You can know everything else about bucks, but this is the true wild card you cannot model. The age and growth of one buck affects all the bucks nearby. Same goes for the death, injury, travel or relocation of a single buck. They constantly relate to each other as they do the land, to does, heat, food, weather and pressure. You can model and track all of this other stuff to some degree but you can't ask a buck how he feels about his brother, father, cousin, uncles, or strangers. These constantly changing relationships will definetly affect movements, patterns and changes in locations. Even where you might have a relatively stationary dominant buck for a few years there is a constant reshuffling of all the bucks below.
You can't ask "Ralph" how he feels about "Zed" this week. If you could he might say, "we used to be friends, but now I hate him," or, "he kicked my ass last week," or, "Zed is dead, baby". This affects both bucks and all nearby bucks.
Here's my opinion on this:
1. Bucks switch their core areas as they start to shed their velvet from high canopy forest and open agricultural land to thick areas with dense cover. This is because they need open areas with airflow and shade to cool them and keep bugs away during the summer. The tall canopy helps keep the temperature cooler by providing more shade and the airflow helps with the bugs. They also avoid the thickest areas because their velvet is sensitive to damage when crashing through the dense cover. Once they are hard horned, this is no longer painful to them.
2. As they switch out of their summer patterns they move into thicker areas with dense cover. These areas provide the best protection against predators and hunters. These areas also hold the most doe’s during the rut.
3. Summer food sources start to diminish and agricultural areas dry up as the farmers harvest their crops. Deer will relocate to areas with more attractive food sources.
Great assessment. I think there is definitely some value in what you're saying.
This is more true then the guy on the right talking about bouncing and gps.
then where do they go in the mountains where there is no open fields?
I learned this over 20 years ago and I always called them homers and roamers
The homer buck lived in a couple thickets of about 4 acres apiece. I learned more from that one buck than any other deer I ever hunted . I have never seen another buck do anything like that deer. Never saw another buck in his area and he would bring the ladies back to his bedding area. Thanks for the insight.
I live like this. There's two areas that I frequent regularly with a known/familiar corridor between those areas. The reason is simple. He's got a wife in one area and a girlfriend in the other.
Great video! Up here in N. Idaho we hunt big timber remote mountainous areas. We think deer migrate in mid-November depending on snow conditions. They have winter and summer home range areas. Not sure if they bounce or shift here or not. They definite drop elevation quickly and back up again if there is snow and melting conditions. The big bucks seem to take walk about in late September and October 5-10 mile loops.
Interesting, maybe a bit different than Mississippi where this study was done
same way they act in B.C. the high elevations force them down in the winter. and it makes shed hunting different too. where they are when they are dropping their antlers is not where they'll necessarily be during hunting season. the majority of my areas, those lower areas where they spend their winters and are dropping their antlers, is private lands. so shed hunting isn't even possible.
@@zzz7zzz9 We rarely find sheds where the deer are in November as they work their way down. Makes the rut a migratory thing, breeding as they drop. Deer are moving 5-15 miles down ridge lines to the valley floor. If it warms back up, we have had big bucks go back up again from 3000 to 5000ft. in a day. At first we thought we had to get in front of them but if it warmed up we found they stopped and moved back up, until the weather forced them down again.
This caught my attention immediately. I missed a big mature buck last year that I was hunting . He is very dark, large with unique caricaturistics . I could see his tracks during the first and second rut, but his tracks were gone suddenly after the second rut. Months later Iwas surprised to see him him over a mile away feeding by himself. My property has a decent doe heard all year that has very thick cover. I thought he just moved there for the rut. I saw the same thing on a private commercial property. A large dominant buck moved from an area of high hunting pressure to the area were the doe were with low hunting pressure. Just and observation.
Good observation!
Characteristics. Herd.
My cattle do the same type of movement . It would take to long to explain but the same things that effect on effect the other wind water food breeding an pressure cover. all these change during the different times of the year
Yes I believe deer do explore new areas too feed safe place too have their fawns it’s crazy here in New York in the city Queens New York one male deer was found in the park
Deer go on instincts, different types of food sources, clean water, cover for protection and privacy, easy access escape routes
topography, lay of the land , a deer senses, eyes, nose, ears are there defense against predators, finding areas that best support this gives them the greatest chance of survival.
Contour to popular belief, deer are really not that predictable
as soon as you think you have them in a pattern, they change their mind 😊.
This fits a buck I've found to a t , he disappeared 2 years Iba row around mid October, and he is back again in velvet , this is year 3 he is very mature at least 5/6
i hear what youre saying, but theres an assumption here based on pressure, especially in the south.
There could be a property that gets hunted with dogs 2 or 3 times a week which would drive that deer to relocate during hunting season, but it could be the best place to live in the off season and its relocating simply based off of pressure once the hunting season starts, seems more likely
Of course it's multifactoral. Pressure absolutely isn't tolerated. They find a way to find secluded areas and pattern you.
A lot of bucks pattern the hunters. Pull up to your hunting spot every day for a week slamming truck doors ,talking,checking cameras and checking feeders. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.
100% agreed. I've got a cousin that travels from North Texas to hunt at my place in South Texas, and the first thing he does when he gets there is drive all over the place on his 4-wheeler. He checks all the feeders and looks for tracks. Then he buys some corn and drives all around the place topping off the feeders, maybe shoot a few quail. A couple of years ago I had to show him on my game cameras how all the deer just disappeared when he showed up. I'm not sure if he believed me or not. This past season he had to swap vehicles with his wife before he came down and he arrived without a gate key so he had to park outside the gate and walk in. When I showed up with my key the next day, he told me, "I've never seen so many deer here before."
Very interesting. Thanks for the vid.
Food water insects are big
Factors in summer
As a white-tail hunter, w/ 157+( for 4 seasons of unlimited tags I went "hog wild", didn't keep accurate #'s) confirmed tagged, two "skunked" seasons, in over 50+ total seasons, I find your theories interesting, and explains a fair amount of what I have experienced. And, I agree that your theory has some merit( especially that you have GPS data, for postulation) I had only shoe leather, eyes,ears, an insatiable desire for hunting, and, The Rumor Mill Network!!!😅😅😅😅. N E way, TY!! for vid.
Tell me what kind of deer your showing 2 different kind
I would assume that if deer move to another location that other deer from another area would fill that vaccum. I cant imagine there are dead zones where there are no deer where deer are later. I also cant imagine that there are hoards of more deer in one deer populated area and none elsewhere as these shifts occur. I would guess this has to do with where deer were born and the need to go elsewhere to diversify the gene pool and then those deer go back and forth to birth places and there new established territory.
The young bucks that got ran off by their mom come back to visit their sister's to play again and the older buck go back to see their children, that at least part of the reason from spring to fall. That's been my observation over the last 10 years. Family. They are heard animals. I've also seen them come back to steal a lick on a salt block or a mouthful of corn in that time frame.
My 50 years of buck hunting shows dominant bucks push lesser dominant bucks maybe just as big around a lot
I think if you could plot every buck that displays this characteristic there would be some overlap and from a genetic diversity standpoint that's a very good thing. It may just be nature's way of maintaining that genetic diversity.
deer are always on the move you see it today and gone tomorrow that is hunting
Any suggestions as to having alot of does all year long but maybe one buck on my trail cameras.
Can’t without more info.. if does are being bred there’s more bucks you’re just not seeing them for some reason. What state and location?
Food and does.
Pretty simple. Being male, the same things drive me 😂
When bucks disappear, they usually are bedding down in my freezer!
Giving deer human traits just doesnt do it for me. They are their own animal with their own distinguishable set of natural reasons for what they do. The disappearing buck for instance is a very well placed part of natural selection. An adult buck is programed to breed as many does as health, strength and time will allow but also the number of available does in heat will play a large part in the equation as well. By having two or more home ranges a buck is going to have more doe units identified and will thus spread his genetics over a broader area. This gives those genetics a much better opportunity to develop stronger heards.
As detached with nature as most americans are these days we need to be very careful as to how animals are portrayed. Again its nature not human traits that drive bucks to have multiple home ranges and no one in science or conservation should ever fall into the Disney trap of attributing human personality or actions on wild free ranging animals. Also, as hunters and outdoorsmen we need to educate others about this very dangerous mindset that does so much harm to wildlife as well as to the common sense of science.
I’m not sure the data supports these bucks migrating for breeding, as that is primarily a 2 week window only. I think it’s much more than that if you look at when they do it and when they return
Let's NOT ascribe human patterns of behavior to a wild animal such as a whitetail deer, such as thinking that a deer really KNOWS....or much less CARES....about "exploring" and conquering new worlds as a human might do "simply because it is there." While I human might climb a tall mountain just to see what is at the top, it is highly doubtful that deer would do the same, or at least for the same reasons a human would climb a mountain.
I have long believed scientists and biologists try to see the animal world through human eyes and human thought patterns instead of trying to understand the world as seen through the eyes of the animal and as interpreted by the brain of the animal. And therein may lie many of the mistakes made in thinking we truly understand animal behavior. Just my opinion, of course.
Being a bit crude here, but to make my point, I ask "Does a deer consciously known that the breeding choices they make enhance the survival of the fittest of the breed? Or does a deer even CARE about that even if it understands it has an obligation to pick the best doe to breed? Or doe the doe inherently understand she needs to only breed the best male specimen? I think not. Biologists say does often breed multiple bucks, some of which are NOT the premium specimens of the species. I believe the breeding is more about the physical act, such as having a sperm release that pleasures the male, rather than anything else that may be in the buck's mind. In essence, they do it because chemistry compels breeding and physical release of sperm not necessarily because they are trying to do their part to find the highest quality doe in the area and produce the best offspring possible. We need to stop thinking like HUMANS think and realize animals simply breed indiscriminately.
So with this approach to reasoning, let's consider ANIMAL behavior characteristics which might offer logical explanations for what may seem to humans as odd movement characteristics. If a buck leaves an area, it certainly could be for curiosity. Animals have individual personalities, and thus one buck may simple be bored with seeing the same territory and other animals day after day so they take a journey purely to see what else may be out there. My cat is very contented to stay in her home area most of the time. But now and then she simply likes to explore so she roams out a bit farther. At times, she even makes a beeline as if she is on a mission to some specific place that she hasn't even visited before. After seeing the new area, she returns back to her safe environment. Bucks may do that too.
Or, if a buck is not the dominant leader of the pack, a buck may choose to go stay in another area for a while simply to avoid being engaged by a bully buck that is annoying them in their old location. Just as people don't always like the other people around them and choose to find another place to stay, bucks may leave a bachelor group due to internal conflicts with other bucks in the group. After a while staying away, the buck may choose to return to see if things have changed back at the old location.
I submit even SMALL things may influence why a buck decides to stay temporarily for a few months at a second location. For instance, during the summer heat a second area may catch more breeze from some cooling source which makes the second location more pleasant for the summer months. Or in the winter, perhaps the situations would be reversed so that prevailing winds are from a warmer direction at one location over the other. The forest, the water, the space, the food sources could all be nearly equal at both locations but the WIND might just be enough different at certain times in the year to make life more comfortable for the deer.
How about insect infestations? Every consider that as a cause which might result in a deer leaving one insect infested area to go stay in a location having less biting bugs? Just how much of the environmental variables do biologists control anyway, or even consider in their analysis? I've seen deer with massive amounts of ticks on them yet I have also seen other deer with little or no visible ticks. So do the nearly tick free deer live in spots that just don't have a lot of ticks? Considering that possums eat a ton of ticks...as do other critters....a deer might just be smart enough to move to a location with a large population of tick eating animals that let's it avoid become a meal for a wad of ticks!
How does the water taste at one deer location as opposed to a second location the buck also uses part of the year. Does the water at the first location get polluted every spring or fall with chemicals running off of nearby ag lands? Does the second location where the buck might go have untainted, clear and good tasting water at that same time of the year.
My point here is that thinking like a deer living without any protection in the open woods is critical to understanding WHY a deer may choose to leave one location and stay at a different location. Until we can THINK like a deer does, we are not likely to properly explain why deer move around by relating it to HUMAN actions, such as believing the deer may be looking for better quality does or simply more does to breed. Or that the deer wants to sign up for exploring new worlds. I submit that if a deer was an explorer like a human and simply had an "inquiring mind wanting to know" that we would see deer jump into an ocean and swim for the other side to see, like Columbus, if there was a new world waiting to be found. Largely that just does not happen with deer. So very few deer are going to new locations just to see what may await in a new world.
Thanks for all your thoughts! To keep it concise, the analogy or comparison is not saying deer are like humans, but gives a reference point for our understanding. He does say it’s in the genome, or dna - hence similar to that they are compelled, not making conscious decisions to roam.
Deer like all other creatures do what they want.Ive got a massive buck on camera then never seen it again.
Yes but they are predictable and can be figured out. The next step is to try to determine where he actually lives, try to find patterns, see if he’s shootable where you hunt. Here’s an article to help deeriq.com/buck-profiles/
There's 24 hours in a day and we can only hunt in daylight...mystery solved.
Guys are guys. If there not gonna get any from the ladies, then guys will just hang-out with other guys.
when they disappear it means they are laying in the back of my pickup
Haha!
Some guys can punch tags on mature bucks season after season using nothing but woodsman and trial and error.
Some guy's rely on technology to be consistent...
Difference is , take away the technology and the woodsman will still be just as successful
A lot of good assumptions, however I think it’s more simple than that. Animals and humans don’t want to breed their own moms and sisters, and God gives humans and animals natural instincts to help keep the odds down of this happening. That’s all, plain and simple.
Really? Comparing deer to humans? They're fricking animals. They move where it's convenient. They move where there's less persure. They move because there might be another dominant buck running them off. They move because there might be more ladies elsewhere.
It’s not saying animals are equal to humans, but analogous in the fact that personalities are present that predispose them to certain behaviors. They found sedentary and mobile type bucks. See the full episode here for a better perspective ua-cam.com/video/APe9pJwrKMg/v-deo.htmlsi=mrujI6x3afMBXJ9w