They are uncertified?!?!
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Krabi bolting fund ( / krabiboltingfund ) is replacing bolts and installing new routes with titanium because the salty air + the limestone makes steel dangerous quickly, even stainless. But that is expensive! They use an uncertified titanium bolt from china and so we tested it, with them in Krabi, and again with our bolt buster equipment in Limestone in nevada. This was our first time installing and testing U bolts or staples as some call it, so it was fun to see HOW they broke.
This episodes data:
Uncertified Titanium U Bolts in limestone
Shear 55.90 and 32.93 - rock failed each time - liquid rock 500 glue
Tension 54.10 and 51.53 - bolt broke then rock failed - Ac100 Equivalent glue
Fixe Titanium U Bolt in limestone
Shear 41.59 - Bolt Broke - liquid rock 500 glue
Tension 34.25 - Bolt Broke - Ac100 Equivalent glue
See us test certified Titanium P shape glue ins by Titan Climbing • Bolt Buster - 6 TITANI...
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00:00 Krabi Bolting Fund
00:56 Krabi Testing
04:11 Nevada Test Setup
08:11 Shear Tests
10:33 Tension Tests
Bolting bible is updated with this information, updated PDF download is available www.hownot2.com/post/boltingbible
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So.....Chitanium bolts are pretty decent then? Just consistency is a question mark?
I'm wondering if you just keep testing them over a super large sample size and over a long duration if you can actually get down to a figure of relative certainty? 🤔
And I'm not even a climber, I just came here for the testing cause it seems interesting👍
Ryan is just a legend: Wearing a helmet outside the cave and telling us that it could collapse. Ten seconds later he is standing in it, without a helmet ;)
Rocks don’t fall from great heights inside a cave
And no safety glasses while drilling. Squinting I guess works just as good.
@@jbowman2602they’re called safety squints and they are osha certified
FYI, the first Ti bolt placed in Thailand was made by Ushba with Hilti HY200 in 1996 (we could not getRe 500 then). To lower the cost, we contacted United Titanium in Ohio and had them make us a batch of U-bolts. We called them staples. Those went into the wall in 1997. All the Ti bolts are still in use. None have failed (as far as I know).
At 2:13 "Our anchors bomber!" then proceeds to hold up a frayed ass core shot rope 🤣 Perfect!
Gotta love the flip-flop mic 🤣
Great video and great and nearly correct use of adit. An Adit is driven so their is a slight decline to the surface to allow free drainage to that level in the mine.
Another awesome video! Keep ‘em coming
:D Edit: The tiny fireball explosion at 9:16 !!
lots of sparks at 12:13 also
Would be cool to see various epoxies tested in hot/cold and after 6-12-18mo or something to that effect. Misapplication / improper mixing scenarios would also be interesting.
10:15 use to use these for a shore fast , for my fishing nets
Hi Ryan - love your stuff, it’s gold. We found similar ratings pulling them in really average sandstone ie super strong. Not sure what he meant by - “they are a lot of work, compared to ring bolts” - because by the time you drill a channel to countersink P bolts you could’ve drilled 2 x extra holes. And there is no need to wipe the glue all the way down the bolt, it does that in the hole anyway. The ones I’ve pulled out when the glue is wet for various reasons always have glue all the way down the shaft, even without twisting. ❤
Well, as you are doing it from free climb, is probably still easier to do one hole
Neat seeing the titanium throw sparks.
thank you Ryan!!!
The apparent increased strength of the uncertified bolts feels concerning, and makes me wonder if it is actually titanium/titanium alloy or if it is a different material altogether than the certified bolts. Which just raises concerns for the corrosion resistance of potentially unknown material.
The only other things I could think of for the difference is geometry (diameter) or heat treat/crystal structure differences to increase yield strength. It would be interesting to have the uncertified bilt analyzed for elastic modulus, hardness, maybe etched for structure analysis, or even a chemical analysis (like EDS or XRD) to see if it's made of the material it claims.
I know it's a bigger diameter and that is why i think it breaks higher. Not knowing if it's proper titanium or the best alloy to not corrode is why I think it's best to go with certified gear from legit companies.
The bigger risk/downside from using uncertified parts like this is quality. You have no way of knowing if each part is uniform to the rest, and if they're comporable in quality to ones already manufactured, those currently manufactured, or those that will be manufactured. For example, the present day batch might be super good enough, but if 5 years from now there's some sort of disruption in the supply trade, and the manufacturer switches to using dirty recycled metal instead of getting it straight from the source, that next batch might test much lower.
But then again it depends on if you need that level of quality or not. This is the reason why automotive bolts cost $1/bolt (%80 confidence in rated strength), aviation bolts cost $25/bolt (%95), and space flight rated bolts can cost $1XXs/bolt (99%+).
@@RawSauce338 absolutely, you have no way of knowing what you're getting today, tomorrow, a year from now. They could all be different things entirely and none of it could match the claims because it's not verified in any way. Even within one batch I'd say there's a risk because there's no reliable quality control process. In practice they may always show as strong enough, but you definitely can't be sure, and that's not worth risking safety for imo.
I was just mostly curious if what they sent is even what they advertised to be selling, and if it is, what might be causing the difference, seems answered in Ryan's reply, the diameter is different. There's not really anything stopping them from sending something highly alloyed or even just steel (though the weight difference there might give it away).
You might be able to take them to a scrap yard or coin dealer and get the alloy checked with XRF.
"don't they make these in this shape" is the funniest thing I have heard this week!
On the tension test, I noticed a lot of exposed quartz/chert veins. Curious if that affects bolt quality or create a shear line (aka a 'fault')
Petition to include more cameos from Zi! 🐶
Sweet mic handle in the intro Ryan.😆
11:25 thats some crazy glue
11:13 chitanium 😂
i also wonder if the two holes next to each other is weakening the rock
also you must have to be quite precise with your drilling to get two parallel holes the correct distance from each other.
i liked the flip flop mic
Coming from tree service this is fun to watch
At least with Ti bolts you get a way cool dramatic light show when they fail!
That's interesting
You just got love a sliding x on a sling rig.. Meat and potato's for me.
Legends!
Hi, can you please give the exact description of that yellow personal anchor strap you normally use ?
Cant find that ''adjustable flat webbing lanyard'' anywhere on the internet.
thanks.
This is the most wild contraption I have ever seen.
I first read this as "contraception" which made that really funny
So, the ones that "just" came out of the exploding rock....... can you still use them because some of them were even in the correct shape still???? Could you do a follow-up test on those ones, please? I'm kinda curious if they will servive a second test 🤔🤔😂😂
What do you do with the broken bolts that are still in the rock, flush cut them off?
Yup
Super free enough
Hi, do you have some test on old slings: dyneema, PA? Just to see how much they deteriorate over time (5yrs, 10yrs etc).
I swear I remember something but it may have just been this video on old quick draws:
ua-cam.com/video/yoHDQNw9OfA/v-deo.html
But look around. IIRC one of the guests brought some old stuff & thought there were some slings.
Don't think it was anything like "let's extensively test old slings" tho.
Could U shaped bolts maybe have some redundancy advantage in some niche cases?
No, since it will just bend out of the way if one side fails. It just adds two points of failure.
Nice work! I got given some homemade U's from a guy in the Blue Mountains where they're used by the thousand. Want me to send some up? My rig's probably not strong enough😅
That could be interesting. Send me an email. -Bobby. No guarentee on time.
At 50kN breaking strength those bolts have a ton of safety margin. What could they conceivably mess up in the production process to get to dangerous levels while keeping the outside appearance and hardness the same?
Do you have a video where you break the dynamometers hanging on your wall? :D
Coming out soon.
Puppy!!!
Someone stole Ryan's appendix!!!!!!!!
I'm curious about its mbs 😅
I very willingly gave it up. I donated it to the trash where it belonged :)
@@HowNOT2 hahaha! I love your content and your soul, Ryan! Keep it up.
Using the threaded bolts means you could proof test them before installing them if using cheap bolts.
I love the fact that you use zebra light. They're one of my favorite light companies and their headlamps are especially awesome. Do you happen to know which model you use? I have the H600Fc Mk IV with the XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI. I absolutely love it. Another good one is armytek
Whoa burning rock fireworks at 8:30 and 9:15! Is that common?
It's fragments of the Titanium metal igniting.
I know why they use titanium. But why do they use u bolts?
I think they are cheaper to make. Welding titanium is maybe hard so it only comes in more expensive ones? I don’t actually know.
It's weird... They don't seem any stronger that the P shape ones and you have to drill twice as many holes and use more epoxy too. Maybe they have issues with good bonding of the epoxy and one leg of the bolt holding is probably plenty strong (and much more preferable to the whole bolt pulling out if it just had the one hole)?
Welding titanium requires extreme cleanness-the base metal, filler metal, and welding environment must be immaculate. Contamination by natural body oils, oils from the forming and drawing process, shop dust, paint, dirt, cutting fluids, and lubricants all can lead to embrittlement and weld failure.
I've seen some pretty welds on a 5k dollar titanium mtn bike frame crack right above the front forks maybe 3 months after purchase
@@anondegen1970 why is welding the only other option from a U bolt? Why not a twisted P?
What I learned from this video is that chitanium is bomber. Am I missing something?
I will never be a climber or an arborist but I need to know all this rope stuff for doing tactical maneuvers around the Chinese when/if they invade. Thanks for all the info.
weird buzzing sound in audio
Just buy a capstan winch and some static rope, save yourself that insane amount of rigging, not to mention loading all your blocks and pulleys so bloody high.
You got a link to a capstan winch that will handle that kind of loads, is reasonable price, can be run on batteries or a small generator is reasonable to carrying by hand
Damn and there beeners that are rated 50kn
Thanks for the videos, always interesting stuff! Terms like “chitanium” and “chineema” bum me out a bit as they suggest it’s being made in China that makes some of this stuff questionable when in fact, a lot of great stuff it made in China. The issue is that these weren’t tested to meet UIAA/CE standards, right? The manufacturer builds to the specs and standards of the demanded. Using these for climbing is going off-label. I know people will prot troll on this but I don’t think it’s fair to imply Chinese = poor quality
Where is he from? Interesting accent. Sounds South African or something.
Edi: not Ryan, obviously
I hear new Zealander who has lived overseas for many years. A lot of people think nz and sa accents sound similar, but I don't get sa at all. Interested to know where David is from if anyone knows
I'm from South Africa and it doesn't quite sound right. Could be from Cape Town town if he is from Safrica?
I am from Germany and can tell that he is not German.
Hammer drills will fry your ears you will ring soooo bad when older promise please use ear protection!