Maybe I Was Wrong About Perfection in Today’s Music?
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2022
- A subscriber points out why I was wrong about pitch and timing correction. My thoughts.
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I remember being in a studio and an important part of the lyric was the word “can’t”. When the singer sung, the word sounded like “can”, this totally changed the whole meaning of the song. The engineer ended up recording the singer making a T sound. Using protools he added the T every time the word was sung. I hope this gives you a wee chuckle to yourself.
I know all about this working on a record you also produce songs on.
Although, no auto tune or beat detected used on "45"
The timing's off, but his tuning sucks
For the longest time I thought the chorus of “Sober” was “why can we not be sober”
I enjoy listening to my old albums hearing all the flaws and mistakes. It puts me right in the room with the artist and I love it. So much better.
Sooo true!
On the one song I've recorded so far for my solo album (not officially released yet) I made a mistake on the key solo in the middle. I left it in the mistake in cause I always remember the little oops in the key solo of Zep's All Of My Love. When I first heard that all those years ago, I used to cringe. Then I realized they left it in for a reason. It grew on me.
Agree,music is too perfrct these days,because the musicians are machines.I still prefer great musicians recording than machines on a grid line.
Thats one of my favorite things about livephish albums.
@@neiltjones9717 Totally!
I love what Pat Metheny said. As you move towards perfection, it moves further away. What is perfection? What is quality? Technique and structure/ feel and phrasing. Finding the balance.
"What is quality?" is the subject of Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Interesting read.
As one of my professors used to say "The closer you get to perfection, the more your imperfections show."
I think Prince moved too close later in his career. This is where D'Angelo Voodoo saved us all.
Perfect pitch doesn't mean you can hit the notes when you sing - it just means that you're painfully aware when you miss them 😀
I wondered if he actually meant true perfect pitch, or just that he can maintain whatever 'key' he starts in.
Yep. Hitting the correct note is just muscle memory.
Haha! Or when ur girlfriend with not one musical bone in her body sings lol
it ain't over yet. the art of real recording and producing is still happening in my studio. some of us are still in the trenches rocking it daily. Cheers from minneapolis
It's not over here in LA yet either John Fields. Happy New Year.
Brilliant stuff
It's not over in Jerusalem! Cheers from Israel :-)
Rick, i really L O V E your channel! Thank you!!
It's not over in Jerusalem! Cheers from Israel :-)
Rick, i really L O V E your channel! Thank you!!
Same here in lakeland fl!
As a basement-dwelling musician recording his own work, and now and then the work of others, I understand the "ease factor" of correcting what you yourself can't do, or can't afford to have others do. However, I always come back to one story.
One of my favourite Monkees songs is "Shades of Grey". On the original recording, Peter Tork, who was easily the weakest of the group's vocalists, reaches for the stars in rendering a sincere reading of the lyrics for his verses. He almost hits the notes, and almost gets the phrasing correct (against the duet with Davy Jones), and his take on the song soars because of the commitment. When Rhino Records released the first of boxed-sets of The Monkees' catalogue, I looked forward to listening to that song because my vinyl copy of "Headquarters" was on its last sonic legs.
My heart was broken when I put on the CD containing "Shades of Grey". Peter Tork's vocals had been pitch-corrected in the digital remix. The emotional sincerity of his verses - and the song - had been horrendously compromised. (I could tell a similar story surrounding the digital remix of King Crimson's "Lizard" album, and what it did to Jon Anderson's guest-vocal on 'Prince Rupert Awakes".)
Auto-tune, quantising, and the lot have their place, and some of us might need them now and again, but the cost in the humanity, the soul, of the music is often far too high.
I just checked every version I have of that song, going all the way back to the 1989 remix of "Headquarters," and none of them have digital pitch-correction on Peter's voice. His voice is just as quavering (and charming) as always on every version. In fact I've never read or heard that allegation until now. Is it possible that the CD version simply didn't match your memory of the song? I agree with the general idea behind your post, though.
I am glad that I grew up in the 60s and 70s, played and recorded live back then, and found beauty in my mistakes and the mistakes of others. We fixed parts by recording more takes, not by manipulating sounds technologically. It was live, natural, analogue, and human.
Same with me. I remember trying to do a punch in over a flub but it never sounded right. The only real solution was to play better. The idea of conforming to absolute pitches and timing is the complete opposite of what we were trying to do. We were trying to put more life into a song not less.
I think one of the main issues is with the modern recording process. The EARS have been replaced by the eyes. You have the recording on a screen. You can see where the drums don't line up and that then tells your ears. The great producers and bands will be known for NOT following trends and trusting the ol' lug 'oles 😁
agree...I don t want to look at music, I want to listen to it.......
@@thehilligan Not what the old white man likes directs new music. What parents spent in humanistic education makes music great. If no one spends any effort for musical education, we get the sh!t we got. The main thought about rising children is: It's much better in income being a lawyer, controller, than to have a feeling for arts.
As a young artist, this is very important to hear! Musicians need to rely more on their intuition rather than letting plugins/software do the work for them
@@AJWRAJWR it's a common saying for blocking progress. In this case of course satirical, because i am an old white man and strictly against those low expectations young people have for their artists.
@@RFDlic Why even mention race then? Don't kowtow to the white-guilt agenda. Have pride.
When you listen carefully, there's a noise in Since I've Been Loving You by Zeppelin when the drums start. It's a squeak from the pedal for the bass drum, that probably wasn't oiled. I love the fact it was kept that way and I also love listening to it. Check it out. Those types of imperfections also make the songs.
Exactly, it's what makes it human, gives it character etc. etc...
That's not a musical imperfection. It doesn't effect the groove or feel. It's an engineering mistake.
@@frankmarsh1159 Yet, a human mistake. For me, at least, it adds to the music. They could've listen and then oil it. Yes, it's not strictly musical from a performing perspective, but it's a mistake, it's on the record and adds to the music. Cheers.
Music is perfect, when it's not perfect.
I never heared it before
I pray David Gilmour will say yes to an interview. But someone you mentioned in this video, Tony Levin, would make for an AMAZING interview. He played with EVERYBODY I love!
And Levin played with Gilmour!
Agreed upon. Jon Herrington would be a great interview ee too...
I’m a 25 year old from Oklahoma City, still in the trenches rocking it daily like John Fields said! What’s incredible nowadays is that we don’t all have to beg and scrape for a studio apprenticeship, we can all just watch Beato!! What a time to be alive!
Metal drumming is so quantized and sampled that it feels more like EDM than a human
Disagree, EDM at least you have 2 or 3 differents snare sounds per song, metal you have every band with the exactly same snare sound in every recording. XD
@@PandazzzValmont haha fair point! 🥁
Mentioning Monk made me smile. He is the perfect example for the perfection of imperfection.
Erroneous Monk ;-)
Melodious Thunk
@@GizzyDillespee Punk is actually pretty good, in a way he was kinda punk...
The idea of autotuning Albert King made me literally laugh out loud
Same here! I chuckled out loud I was so stoked lol 🤦🏻♂️😂
I bet Quincy Jones would do an interview with you! Can you imagine anybody else still alive today that's pretty much been through it all from the early Be Bop through high tech etc? I bet he has some stories to tell. Many people don't know that in the early 50s he went on the road with Lionel Hampton as a trumpeter/arranger after studying at The Schillinger House in Boston. Ever heard of that place? It's now called ...... (wait for it) ..... (the one and only) ..... Berklee College of Music ;-)
UPVOTE! :)
That would certainly be one off the wall to behold.
Good call!
I knew it because my Dad studied arranging at Berklee in the early 60's and he was an avid Quincy fan. Great suggestion! What a great way to document the man's work. Make it a 5 part series!
Quincy Jones is far too successful to be seen anywhere near Rick Beato's youtube channel, I think that deep down you know that to be true
honestly quincy jones is pretty much in a different universe than rick beato and I'd be surprised if he even got a phone call let alone an interview... jacob collier is in touch with quincy jones because of his immense musical knowledge which rick doesn't hold a candle to
Leland Sklar has such a charming yt-channel. He discusses playing with jackson Brown, CSN etc and how he thoroughly enjoyed playing with all those fabulous session players on those compositions by those fabulous artists.
Yes, I love his channel as well and his stories are fun and mind blowing.
Love his channel. He played bass for the Spanish records from 95-98 for Enrique Iglesias.
I love when I hear something that sounds off. It gives realness to it. It usually becomes the anticipated point of the song for me.
I recently listened to DeepPurple "Smoke on the water", and mentioned that tempo varies through all the song. And many pitch and time inaccuracies of other instruments, especially bass. So I realized how far auto-tune and quantize of modern music has changed my attention to this. As well, how "human played imperfect" the Deep Purple sounds.
Silk Sonic’s (Bruno Mars’) new album has strings on almost every track. They list 5 violinists, 3 violists, and 1 cellist on tracks 2, 4-6, 8, and 9.
Put some respect on Anderson .Paak
@@jactrich The focus of the comment was the use of strings on the album. Bruno Mars and D'Mile produced the album and it would have been their decision, and their decision alone, about what instrumentation to use. But all you care about is whether Andy's name was included, along with Bruno's, on a post regarding something that was outside his purview.
@@jo_ni_kay sorry didn’t see your name on the production credits. Next time I’ll make sure to double check
@@jo_ni_kay it was a joke. Artists use to be able to joke around, im sorry I didnt realise it was menstruating season for you, I apologise and wish you all the best with your recovery .
It dawned on me:..your whole presentation is why I think i enjoy live music so much. Even older blues albums-I always loved the live recordings better. There was that intangible feel that is so fun to listen to.
Hi Rick. It all depends on how you define "perfection". In terms of rhythm and tempo, a "perfect" situation for me is where I can lock in with a real drummer in a live situation and we can interact through simple eye-contact. There's nothing to beat it, and rigid quantised stuff is only ever a second best - all the musical tension and give and take is removed.
Pitch correction is slightly different. I've worked with singers who desperately needed it - but it always came at the expense of robbing their vocals of much of the quality that made them interesting in the first place. I'll always remember the manager of one band I was in cutting through the cr*p and putting it bluntly about the vocalist: "Gag him or sack him!". None of the rest of us dared say it - but it needed to be said!
In the end, I can't help but relate back to the classic recordings from the era when neither timing nor pitch correction were options; simple and brutal, either you could cut it or you couldn't - and the resulting recordings still have a vibrance and vitality which we've lost in the quest for a notional different idea of "perfection".
Or, as Ringo once said - "I AM the f*cking click track!" - which is all a long-winded way of saying that , for me at least, you had it right the first time. ;)
Maybe folk should stop to ask what the goal is. EDM and industrial are purposefully robotic, and even metal bands like Fear Factory try to make their sound as mechanical, as possible. There's no one right answer in music.
Keeping in mind a quote from Paul McCartney. "What people are ultimately listening to is our nerve endings" . People are connecting with that FIRST. Im talking about the people who don't really care about perfection per se or how a piece of music was produced. I think analog recording does this best but thats another subject. Great players, to me, have one thing in common regardless of vocabulary or style. They either innately or intellectually understand the music as a series of "happy accidents". They get to that in as many ways as there are individuals. But I would tend to side with "what you were born with". as the priority. People don't know about the hours Gadd practiced in a bank vault so he could feel safe (for example.) IT takes what it takes. Or as Ringo put it, "It dont come easy".. And then there was Porcaro' who was plagued by "why me? " Thats, I believe, why Miles said "if you wish you could, become a critic.
That is what communicates to the "born with " of the listener. The rest is just correcting for the inability to, as Gadd would say, "get beyond the wall that you put in front of yourself. It's difficult for ordinary people. Some love (or are driven to seek the love) the task enough to become "extraordinary. at creating the aforementioned accidents.. And thats just the way it is. I might add that I could be wrong but for me this seems to be true.
All these modern tools try to simulate that but never will. But enough to make a buck or two.
Imagine if producers “fixed” Jimi Hendrix saying “excuse me, I know I missed a verse” on his version of Like A Rolling Stone 50 years ago? That line STILL cracks me up 50 years later. I would have missed 5 decades of enjoying that mistake.
Thank you, Rick. Perfection is never a goal. It’s really a symptom. And the symptoms have changed as the tools in the industry change. Your sincerity and honesty is so valuable to musicians and listeners.
Sessions players were commonplace when singers who played no instruments were popular (i.e, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, et al). It wasn't until rock 'n' roll became popular, then dominant, that musicians who played instruments AND sang became the new standard.
As an independent musician/producer and composer, a lot of the time I’m doing everything myself. From writing the song all the way to mastering it. So, it takes a lot of time for me to put out an album or EP of my own work. I play all the instruments, but keyboards and drums are my fortes and bass is usually ‘Practice practice, record about 30 takes, pick out the good ones, and use copy paste when possible’. I can play simple guitar parts… so… convenience means a lot. I can’t always afford to pay for players, and I can’t bring myself to ask them to play for free. I work in Logic, and it has a tuning feature that I use to spot correct a good capture of a vocal, but I don’t like tuning the whole track for the same reasons you spoke of. Organic nuances. And for me, I guess it might always be this way because maybe my music sucks, as I can’t seem to gather much of an audience. Having real players on my music is the most desirable way to produce, but, usually I can only afford to have a guitarist on 2 or 3 songs. I’m ok with working this way on my own projects, but man it’s slow. Thank goodness for the modern (tech) tools we have today, or I might not ever be able to get my music out there for nobody to hear. 😬
I hear ya man. I'm in the same boat. I do it all myself.
THIS
You on spotify?
@@nathanaels4195 Yes sir. Well, I think so
I totally get you! I do everything myself too. I've tried having friends play on my recordings but each and every time they just don't give me what I want and I can get there quicker and better myself. Even though they are far better on their respective instruments than I am. I'm mainly a keyboard player but I can somewhat play guitar and bass. I finger play drums on a Korg Nanopad 2 and then fix them in Cubase. I sing all the parts and absolutely refuse to use autotune. If it's not right, I re-record it. Just the way I do with every other track.
Such a great post Rick, as always, spot on.
As a drummer it's killing me that musicians don't understand who has to keep time in the band. The answer being THE BAND.
Pointless trying to work time or a studio if they don't get that. They can't keep time, so they go into the studio and can't use click (and aren't good enough to play time because they thought that was someone else's job) so the whole thing goes Straight Down The Tube. Such a waste of time and money for all, and defs a way to break up a band.
Also, the same, if not more, don't understand time. A tight band ebbs and flows together as many songs require, or plays straight down the line. TOGETHER.
Too many lazy, uneducated "musicians" getting around and about
Perfect example is Rush playing Spirit of the Radio, they morph between tempos and do it together. That was cut to tape, no Pro Tools.
Well said Mr. Blanch! 😝
@@grievuspwn4g3 Billie Eilish is a good recent example.
Thank you for the King's X shout out. Still my favorite band....well since the late 80s
We use these same tools in the studio I work at. However, the goal is to use as little of these as possible. "Autotune" is used to fix a note here and there of an otherwise great take - particularly harmony parts. Never is it used across the board and never do we shoot for artificial artefacts. Occasionally you have to fix a drum part - or slide a bass guitar note to follow the kick drum. No one has ever accused us of producing perfect - in more ways than one....
Is the larger question whether a band can match (or nearly match) what consumers heard that brought them to a show?
The drums should never need fixing IMHO, as Rick said can you imagine trying to quantise Monk, or Purdie or Bonham. There's a reason that the records those artists have recorded sound waaay better than the tech driven offerings we have today. We're in danger of losing our souls in art, literature and life in general.
@@63Baggies this is true, even electronic tracks place drums off the grid intentionally
To fix individual notes why use autotune at all? Just bump the note (or even segments of a note) up or down the needed cents til it sounds nice and maintain the natural pitch variation within a note. Even a second of autotune turns vocals in synthesizers to my ear. But good on you for not going for "perfect."
man! i'm so young! I was born in 2003, but I totally relate to you and your outlook of music, I love Billy Joel and singer song writer types like Jim Croce, Don Mclean, Gordon Lightfoot, and James Taylor. and Bands like Toto, Boston, Kansas, and many many others! Your analysis of these musicians are very interesting!
Smart young man.
My dad is in his mid 50s. He recently got an electric kit, and we have been recording some songs together. Last night i spent most of the time nudging and cutting alot of his takes. In this case; its a beautiful thing since i cant really just bring in a better drummer without being disowned haha
That's the best reason for using it that I've heard!
Really! Just quantize and tell him he's great! No matter how old he is. Sure you can do that? 😊🎶
😆💗
Where you capturing the midi or recording the audio out? If you capture the midi performance you can have more precision with your edit
Love your comment "a record is a record of where you are at!" So true. I am one of those guys that always tries to move things to grid and make them perfect but you have opened up my mind. Make music with the heart. Work to get it good but don't overdo the perfection bit (In my humble opinion).
It’s amazing how far we’ve come, it’s like moving forward and backwards at the same time
Another way in which autotune is imperfect is that it's (at least typically) automatically tuning everything to the 12 equal grid. Well, the 12 equal grid is great, but it's a huge *compromise* that was made to make it more economical to build instruments and have them all work together no matter which key they're in. When you take a part that was sung by a really great singer with a good ear, and auto tune it, you're usually going to be turning what is basically just intonation -- stuff that's really in tune with the harmonic series -- and turning it into something much farther from perfectly tuned. 12 equal's major thirds are super sharp, its minor thirds are super flat, its minor seconds and ninths are incredibly flat and out of tune compared to what they can be. The harmonic seventh isn't even on the piano keyboard. Try auto tuning a barbershop quartet and you'll destroy the entire effect, because they use a ton of harmonic sevenths, which are 31 cents flatter than 12 equal's minor seventh. If you're using your ears to really lock into the chord that's being sung and relieve the tension that's normally created by the minor seventh, that's what'll happen, you don't even have to understand it to do it.
In Adele's "Easy On Me", there's a part where she sings a whole bunch of notes from the harmonic series over the tonic, and there are some notes in there which are a quarter tone off the 12 equal grid, but everything is perfectly in line with the harmonic series over the bass note, and it sounds fucking great. I don't know if it was intentional, or just the consequence of physics and an incredible singer using her ear, but either way, it's worth paying attention to where the compromises we've made to be able to add fixed metal frets to guitars, and build pianos with not too many keys per octave are just the wrong compromises to be making. We have computers now that could free us of all these constraints, if we just don't cripple the software from the outset.
This happens automatically to singers and players of non fretted string instruments. As much as we are accustomed to equal temperament, it seems we still have a natural preference for just intonation.
@@troldhaugen It makes a huge audible difference. The harmonics of the notes beat against each other when they're not quite lined up, and once you know what you're listening for, 12 equal's thirds will seem buzzy and awkward because the 5th harmonic of the lower note is beating against the 4th harmonic of the higher one. How fast that beating is depends on the actual pitch but for example with A 440 Hz as the lower note against a C# in 12 equal above it which is 554.3 Hz, it'd be 4*554.3 - 5*440 = 17 beats per second. That buzz can usually be tolerated, and it can even be useful if you're trying to create tension, but e.g. maj7 chords can be so much cleaner and prettier when you have 5/4 major thirds and 16/15 semitones.
There is still a human using software making decisions on inputs and outputs.
That's a great aspect you mention. Would love to hear Rick's thought about singers going for just intonation in certain moments. I don't think my ears are good enough to detect those moments but I know that there's in general a world of pitch information, of tonal color beyond the equal 12 tone grid a great singer can tap into when phrasing and all those nuances just get brushed away with the use of autotune. Imagine autotuning Aretha for example, you would lose so much of what makes her Aretha.
@@d.rowley5023 True, though often it's harder to do things beyond 12 equal than one might like. Certainly piano rolls become quite awkward a lot of the time if you want more pitches per octave, and a lot of stuff doesn't yet work with custom tunings. But it's getting easier all the time at least. :)
Thank you for fielding the comment, agree that autotune in particular is a style, mostly overdone but cool in the right context.
I'm a guitarist and love all kinds of music but I grew up in the 80's loving funk, new wave, hip-hop, electro, dream pop among other things; lots of effects including vocoders, Roger Zapp with his voicebox >>>>>. Any production ethos ('real' instruments or not) can end up lazy stagnant and cookie cutter but don't blame the tools blame lazy producers and lack of taste all around.
I am a big fan of Roger & Larry Troutman (Zapp), Hip-Hop has made one of its main identities with auto-tune (not because the artists cannot sing) but as a vehicle for syncing with the beats. Producers only promote & sell the music. Engineers can only work with what they get, and most of them are very highly skilled. Taste is for individuals, but I love the smorgasbord on offer today & yesterday. Auto-tune sadly is overdone, but it must not be done away with, as it has it own frequencies that only lend itself to certain styles, modern pop being a part of this. Sound is a spectrum of delights, and you know not everyone can appreciate what you have listened to. 👍🎸😎
@@TheSoundofU "as a vehicle for syncing with the beats"???
I always thought that was a basic fundamental of being an actual musician, not a computer
@@markblanch2905 I agree, but there are a lot of singers that go into recording studios now that often need this assistance. This is what I thought Rick inferred. Musicians who know their instrument (whether that be voice or guitar etc) often don't need this helping hand. Having worked in recording studios & radio I have seen the need for this craftsmanship. I'm not taking anything away from artists, just saying that often these are the tools to lift their game.
It's rife, not just stylistically.
Voice box methinks 1970s double live Frampton album
RICK - Sending you a 2022 New Year's donation. Love what you do, and look forward to many more analyses. Props from Ottawa.
Love your insight and perspective, Rick. You're doing a wonderful job educating all of us on the music industry :)
I appreciate your honesty, behind the scenes and sharing your insights.
Hi Rick, just want you to know i Love your channel, vreat interviews, and i like learning new things. Re Auto Tuning, apparently they have auto tuned Pavarotti which to me is a disgrace, there is a great channel called Wings of Pegasus run by Fil, he is a muso and producer. Fil uses wave forms to analyse recordings and he did one analysis of Karen Carpenter zinging live and also the same song on record and her live performance was nearlly perfect pitch she was that damn good
Fil has really dived deep into exposing autotune…good stuff indeed
You gotta love Sun records that ran people through their studios with one takes. I love the roughness of those recordings and messy as they were.
Correctomundo, my friend. Who can beat the emotional rawness of Robert Johnson's recordings, made with one track with the singer facing the corner of the wall for that little echo? Nobody, that's who!
Manu Katche was on Simple Minds' album "Street Fighting Years". His drumming style was very different from Mel Gaynor, but matched well with the style they used on that album. It came out in 1989. Superb album by the way.
Yeah agreed, I have a longtime drummer friend that's always raved about that guy for years. I'm just a piano/ synth nerd but he's got his own good thing going on.
Thank you so much for talking about the "solo artists" that have a whole pack of session musicians behind them. People talk about it like it's some new shameful thing that was invented in the 2000's but it's really been a part of mainstream music for 50 years.
The new thing, of course, is just replacing session musicians with copy&pasted samples.
Ghost writers have also been very common for a long time.
@@phadrus true. Although in the 2000's a lot of performers didn’t even claim to write their own songs. The real writers would be listed in the liner notes.
Nowadays it seems they have a compromise: pop singers will write it with a few co writers and everyone is credited. It’s usually unclear who contributed what though.
Right, it’s a shameful thing that has been going on for over half a century, it’s just perhaps even more prevalent today. Mainstream music is garbage.
So surprised to see him mention Matt Chamberlain.
Hi Rick greetings from the Uk, I only discovered your channel a couple of months ago, and since been hooked and viewed just about everything you have posted , your musical taste is impeccable my friend, and feel honoured you like so much from my humble Land, just curious that you never mention ‘ Deep Purple’ and in particular the Genius that is ‘ Ritchie Blackmore’ I’d love to know your thoughts on the band and the man himself
Cheers
Rob
Ps I know you like ‘ The Cure’ they come from my home town ‘Crawley’ and used to watch them play at my local pub before they made it, keep up the great work fella
This was a real eye opener.Thank you Rick.
I've had this gripe for awhile. I'm excited to hear your take on this !!!
Today's composers: "yeah, lets cuantize everything to the ms."
Romantic composers: "ok, this section doesn't even have bars, but they'll get it"
I'm not a musician, but I love getting insight into how music is made by Rick. Fascinating stuff even though I only understand a little bit.
Rick - great comments bout the long list of session players - Fantastic documentary / musical film led by Joan Osborne called "Standing in the shadows of Motown" which highlighted the amazing talent behind the hits of that era - whose names we never saw on the album cover !!
Another great video. I love and respect your honesty.
The problem is not the use of auto-tune per se but its unjudicious and often indiscriminate use of it. Not every singer needs it or at least not every song or genre needs it. Discretion and proper judgement call is needed and that's where the problem lies.
If you use it as an effect: fine. But if the singer needs it, because he can't sing, well maybe he shouldn't be a singer then.
I agree. It's about balance
@@ursula3438 Skills that take years to fully develop should not be a barrier to entry for making music. I see nothing wrong with someone needing autotune to get their vocals to sound good, as long as they don't hide the fact they use it
@@ClikcerProductions To sing with a good sense of pitch doesn't take years though, if you have the talent.
@@ursula3438 The second you bring up "talent" I know there's no point talking to you about anything musical
Hey Rick, great lesson today. Sooo pleased you dropped in Jim Croce today, I would love to see a deeper dive into his music and possibly how he has influenced music that most of us a possibly not aware of.
You have got to be the most instantly familiar and welcomed personality on the tube. You seem so approachable too. The everyday person’s inspiration. Very much appreciate all that you do.
I get educated greatly by these deep discussions about production, I really enjoyed them!
Rick thank you for explaining why I stopped hearing good music from the ninety’s on
Nothing worse than a bad song over produced
I’ll take live music any day of the week over all the editing and remixing
And I agree with you when I question a song with 11 song writing credits
Of course I loved analog verses chopped up digital recordings
Rick on
From Las Vegas Craig
I would love to hear Rick talk about Mark Knopfler's guitar style. Songs like How Long and Skateaway being good examples.
How Long is one of my favorites ❤
I agree. Been listening to and playing great guitarists since the mid-60s. What is it that people don’t get about the wonder that is Mark Knopfler?
Enlightening, thank you. Great video.
I really like the colors and the relaxed atmosphere of your music studio.
we are all perfect in our imperfections.... that's what makes us who we are, it's also what gives us all our own flavour.... good stuff all Rick, all the best in the new year, and thank you for all the good content and the entertaining info... you must have been a really good teacher in uni... all the best!!! ;0) M
i started a playlist, using heavily “perfect” songs, next to some “non-perfect” songs. Listen to them ‘back to back”….it’s a no brainer. Two songs to try--Cher, ‘Believe”, and then follow it up by Fleetwood Mac - Silver Springs. They sound so different it is not even a comparison
Who would listen to Believe by Cher on purpose?
@@BrianTurnbo DO YOU BELIEVEEE IN LIFE AFTER LOVE?🎶🎶🎶
I CAN FEEL SOMETHINNN INSIDE MEE SAYYY
It's catchy though. The producing is terrible though I agree
@@Marplea I listened to it today and I kinda like the techno drums, nice hats and bassline. The autotune is a bit much lol.
@@t3hgir I think this is one of the only times Auto Tune is excusable. This track Made that sound. While Auto Tune existed before it. No pop song had it cranked to 11 the entire time. I wasn't until T-Pain that autotune truly became it's own thing. Before that it was the Cher thing as opposed to Autotune.
Fascinating insight. Thank you.
There are a few smaller boutique labels who put musicians in the studio, with great acoustics, no plug ins, and limit the number of tracks and mics. Their result are so good, they will make a music fan cry. Check out the artist recording with Cookie Marenco at Blue Coast Records and Paul McGowan and Gus Skinnas at Octive Records. This is a throwback to the Windham Hill Label in the 1980s. The sound is alive and the musicians are sharing your living room, much like The Beatles did in their early albums.
“Why does someone with perfect pitch use auto tune?” Granted it’s not applicable to the example you gave because you said he always sang in tune, in my music school a lot of students with perfect pitch would get all the notes but would struggle with tuning, especially if we tuned to a piano that was a tad off or not A440. Perfect pitch from what I saw was an impediment more than it helped people. Singing in tune has more to do with finding your place so your voice vibrates with the overtones. It’s important to remember that the chromatic scale doesn’t match up perfectly with the overtone series. That’s why there are several different ways keyboards have been tuned through the years.
I love your comment because you are aware that our chromatic scale doesn't match up with overtone series
If Rick were to start talking like most people sing we wouldn't be able to understand a single word he was saying!
Pythagoras couldn't have said it better!
Charlie Puth used it to teach himself how to sing and has perfect pitch
Eddie from Twoset Violin has perfect pitch and his singing is like somebody treading on a sea lion. Somebody once said perfect pitch is like being to name every single colour, but that doesn't mean you're a good artist.
I think most music sounds like a machine because of grid lines,I put on Extrapolation by John McLaughlin and you can hear the little time shifts ,absolutely wonderful.
I hate sloppy musos but today everything is too perfect.
Love your shorts and your channel!
Happy New Year, Rick!
I think auto tune sounds great on some songs when used lightly for the effect more so than pitch correction. Brad Arnold, 3 Doors Down vocalist, does a good job using it sparingly. I especially like his use of auto tune in "Away From the Sun". You have to listen for it to even realize he is using it.
Hi Rick, I love your channel but it has made me realise that I will never be a guitar or any other musical instrument player. I used to dabble with playing many years ago but I can see now that there is so much more to being a musician.
Looking forward to your interviews with prominent players - love your channel.
Please keep playing for you ..
Awesome video as always! 🤩
Some great points!
"Grace and Danger" by John Martyn, the original mix, had some of the best guitar/voice/bass music I've ever heard. Maybe you could do a 'what makes' episode on "Johnny Too Bad" or "What Kind of Love is This?", could interview that bass player, he's fantastic (I think). Also James Hetfield would probably like your vibe. Dolly Parton would be another good interview. That woman has lived. Chrissie Hynde would probably be another good female interview. Lots of organic nuance with both of them... and John Martyn.
John Martyn is dead, sadly.
@@garrystanton8583 Yah... think it was the booze but who knows. I was suggesting Rick interview the bass player that worked with Martyn for several years - who shows up on "Grace and Danger".
You would be the most stimulating interviewer for the people you listed, if your dreams come true, so will those of many others!
Hal Blaine and Jim Gordon. Great players. Jim Gordon on Lightfoots stuff is epic..
Great video as always Rick and a happy new year . 😎👍
"More Female Artists"
Rick I would love if you'd look into the artist I've spent ten years supporting. Haley Reinhart, yes, she's most known for being on American Idol, BUT she has chosen to be and stay independent, to put in the work, learn the industry and even put out her own albums. Her one thing she could improve is self promotion, but when she's ready, she can hire someone for that. She's an old school rock and roller, raised by a Beatles loving Chicago Blues Guitarist. She was one of few contestants on Idol to get permission to perform Led Zeppelin on the show from both Robert and Jimmy, "What is and What Should Never Be", she was also the first on the show to have a parent perform w/ her, her Dad, Harry, the Chicago Blues man.
I'm an amateur videographer but have spent ten years posting her live performances to spread the word about her. She can sing any genre, she's most successful w/ her Jazz performing with the UA-cam music collective, Postmodern Jukebox. She has their most viewed video, 110 million, on her cover of Radiohead's "Creep"
I could go on and on, but it you could look into some of the stuff she's done, I think you might like her old school approach to music and her career and I know she'd learn alot from talking to you as well. She's eager to learn and make her place in the music industry.
Hope you consider it, cheers, love your channel
@@gregrice1354 Yes, that's her, Haley Reinhart. "Creep' just passed 110 million views, it's also the song on the video I'll be be posting tomorrow from a Christmas show she did in LA.
Gotta pay the bills. Haley had said her reason for entering Idol wasn't necessarily to win, she used it to build a fan base, of which I was one. Music had lost most of it's thrill for me, nothing new on the radio did anything for me, I was listening to music I'd heard thousands of times since the '70's. Haley was a breath of fresh air. It motivated me to travel to see her, edit video, something I'd never really done before, then we grew a community...really wild stuff, I'm very grateful for the experiences.
Screw American Idol.
Haley would be an awesome guest for Rick.
She can sing but that's it. Nothing new or original. Just like hundreds of other female pop vocalists
Haley is awesome as is the whole family. Must have been allot of music and fun times growing up in that house.
Can you imagine Jimi Hendrix auto tuned? Bob Dylan? Great video Rick! Makes me understand what happened to music. I use to blame producers, but now I understand the business pressure they are under. Over all it's sad, computerized music. Imperfection is human.
Can you imagine Neil Young auto tuned ?
There are a few Queen Rereleases that have auto-tuned Freddy Mercury! So sadly I wouldn't put it past them these days.
appreciate the honesty.
TY Mr. Beato this was help full
Would Jimmy Page's weird guitar change/mistake in 'Black Dog' have ever been recorded if it had been quantized?
Would you have ever listened to Jeff Beck if he'd played to a click track?
Yes
Those who say "less is more" are perhaps right! If there was a sudden blackout today, would we still be able to create great music? Greetings from Genoa, Fabio
Yes! We would. So many technological perks are a crutch to creating real music. Very few talented musicians can actually do it anymore without programs like autotune.
I actually Discover blonde redhead..give a listen if you want 😁 from Pinerolo, Torino. (Sempre bello vedere qualche "compaesano" in questi commenti!)
Yes, if they're using tech for effect. If they're using it as a crutch to support poor skills, then no
@@jeffplamenig8478 we could do great music even without electricity i think !
People would adapt in 5 minutes lol
David Gilmour did use session players, David wrote the classical guitar part for "is there anybody out there," but it was played by a session player using a leather pick on the wall record, Snowy white and Tim Renwick also played some of the guitar parts on various Floyd records.
Elbow!!! Rick. Great string arrangements.
Nice show. Session players made the songs shine. Not taking away from the songwriter. I love the insights. Thank you.
There is a human quality to music that makes it human, not sterile.
Right which is why you complain about heavy compression and reverb right? Since those are clearly non-human.
Alexander Actually I do think compression often ruins the dynamics of music. It’s 100% unnecessary in most cases if the mics are placed correctly and the mix is right, and if the performer(s) have great dynamics. So is EQ. They exist for ease of use, the modern ill. The “Loudness Wars” were not good for human expression in recorded music. Reverb can be overdone, sure, but it’s not remotely like autotune. It doesn’t artificially dehumanize a human performance. It adds atmosphere to it. The fact is, I don’t mind effects that can be observed. It’s invisible effects that I find to subvert the humanity in music.
You can’t outlaw it, but it can be philosophically challenged when appropriate.
@@LexanderMiller using audio effects to shape the sound is not the same thing as gridlocked rhythm and autotuned pitch correction. Snark works better when you don't sound so ignorant.
@@Astrochronic lol explain why they’re different.
The irony here is palpable hahahaha
@@TheMasonator777 excuse me? We’ve been compressing voices for decades. In fact, some could argue that different microphones organically compress in different manners.
The entire point is that “autotune is bad” is just a whipping horse for people who just want to complain about modern music. It’s no different than being able to do multiple takes, or have different tracks to record to.
“If the musician can sing good, why do they need autotune” and “if the band can play well why do the need anything more than one microphone and one take” are the same complaint, just at different times in history. And both are absurd.
Hey Rick, how are you brother, hope all is good...
I saw you along time ago and I felt you were just another utube guy....
Not true, you are a very real and honest person. You do not have a big head or feel your better then everyone. That's real.....your a honest guy. Thank you!
Very insightful!
Ask Luke, he probably has the connections to all the guys you want to interview. Everybody knows you or of you, I'm pretty sure all the greats would love to chat with you. Love your channel, thank you for all the rich content.
Regarding strings in recent songs, Brandi Carlile’s Grammy winning The Joke has beautiful string arrangements and performances
Brandi has string players in her band! One of the many reasons I am a fan ❤️
Hey Rick, great compliment on your channel!
Hey Rick! I really wanna know your take on what makes the Pixies great, cause i can't put my finger on it tbh. Really enjoying your book. Keep it up!
This is awesome. A great testament to the virtues of 'feel' and precision, over technically rigid production and playing. (I'm a guitar hobbyist. I stopped playing last summer.. intermittently noodling here and there.. no real practice to speak of... burned out on everything.) That said, I finally found a bit of energy and inspiration. I had gradually stopped browsing my fave online vids as the year progressed. Anyway, auto-tune is killing my love of vocal music. People use it as a special audio effect these days, and it is so annoying. I don't dislike it, I've just gotten tired of all the pop misuse.
Roger Taylor once said that the highest praise that they would give themselves after a live performance was that it was almost perfect. I believe that there is a saying something like "perfection is the
enemy of the good"
Aiming for perfection in performance is good, that's having high standards. Erasing any character in performance by making things sterile and uniform is another thing. Human performance should aspire to the highest level but not be superceded by computer correction. The irony is that often times now the computer is being used so much that it actually makes the human reach for perfection redundant, lowering standards and making performers lazy.
That statement doesn't apply to the performing arts. It is the formula for squeaking by in a mediocre manner in an uneducated and uncultured world. Would you pay $250 for up front seats to a show or concert that's going to be "good?" I wouldn't! It's gotta be perfect. It's gotta knock me out. At least something about it has to be perfect or look like they've done the absolute best that is achievable...!
Paul McCartney said the Beatles didn’t need a click track because Ringo was such a great drummer and was very good at keeping the tempo - and on the rare occasion that he didn’t, the band could compensate by speeding up.
Even when flawed, they would lean in and go with it.
Happy New Year.
We're essentially getting all the tools in place for the full automation of pop music
Yes. An algorithm that pretty much makes a hit track given the parameters.
Great discussion. I'd like you to interview Mike Portnoy. I'm sure you two would have a blast and talk for hours about everything music.
Love your videos Rick.
Made me want to buy all of your books. I love your stuff man I grew up basically on 80’s rock and Grunge, however no one has ever broke it down this way. I’m An artist that is also against “cheating” just to get a good sound. The last album I did was in Long Beach CA, and I loved that the engineer told us “the best way to get a solid sound with you guys is to record it live.” I just love the honest sound of recording in a room, I’m 24 and I don’t want it any other way. Producers are so important. Rock on Rick we love ya 🤘
Here in Germany, autotune is of course also an issue, but we have many artists who turn away from it and look for their way outside the mainstream ... with great results, balbina just mentioned as an example. Perfection on the computer is still something other than perfection of the voice (as I hear it), the human and what one simply hears without the language ...
besonders Möchtegern Rapper nutzen den Mist
@@Orbitalbomb aber da ist AutoTune dann auch kein Problem mehr.
I think of autotuning and quantizing as being part of the uncanny valley. To me, it's kind of the same vein as watching a heavily CGI movie fight sequence and being taken out of the drama because you don't feel the stakes. There are still modern movies using CGI more judiciously, if we're talking action, the John Wick movies are a good example. Nothing replaces the visceral feel of hand to hand combat, real stunts with real people, and real set pieces.
It's kind of the same thing with heavily computerized music. We are very good as humans in detecting things that aren't quite right, but I think for music it takes some education to get this uncanny feeling when hearing over produced music.
Lack of variability is a very inhuman trait, so in that way, the reference for music should be (in my opinion) normal human variability and imperfection.
Once I picked up on your comparing fixing things to the old days of having great studio musicians, it felt like I had already known that. That's what it feels like to listen to a great teacher.
Hey, Maestro Beato! We all need a break now again from the routine of practice. It's amazing, but usually I find that after a couple of weeks away, now and then, I come back better than ever! I find the most beautiful realizations and imaginings after such a "break". Break? Wait a minute... the subconscious is working it all out during that "break". Keep bringing your efforts to us, please!!!!!