No, Today's Music Isn't Boring (A Response To Rick Beato)
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2021
- Look I don't want to start a fight but we need to talk about this.
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So... About a month ago, Rick Beato did a livestream called "Why Today's Music Is So BORING. The Regression of Musical Innovation." In it, he attempts to argue that modern music is no longer doing interesting things. He's wrong. Let's talk about it.
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Some additional thoughts/corrections:
1) I'm gonna say this one last time: This video is not a declaration of war. It's not a reckoning on Rick Beato as a creator, as a theorist, or as a person. If you're going to interact with Rick about it at all (And honestly, I'd really rather you didn't.) please engage with kindness and compassion. I don't want to see a bunch of y'all starting fights in his comment sections or anything. That would be the opposite of productive.
2) Also, while I'm at it, I'm not saying old music is bad, or that you _have_ to listen to and enjoy new music! It's ok to not seek out new music you like if you're happy with the stuff you already have. Most of the songs I make videos on are at least, like, 20 years old, so I get it. But trying to take away the stuff other people enjoy because it's not made for you is bad.
3) On the topic of 1991, I chose to focus specifically on rock music because that's the genre I'm most familiar with. There's plenty of important things that happened that year in hip-hop, soul, and other styles, I just don't trust myself to curate those lists as accurately as I could with rock. I don't mean to imply that _only_ rock stuff happened, but since Rick and I are both primarily rock enthusiasts, it seemed like the most natural area to focus on for the sake of the argument I was making.
4) Also on the topic of 1991, To The Extreme by Vanilla Ice spent 8 weeks as the number 1 album that year. I'd be willing to bet that you know, at most, one song off it, and you probably know that song as a joke.
5) I didn't select my list of modern example songs with this criterion in mind, but it's interesting to me that none of them have harmonies that behave the way Rick says all modern pop harmonies do. Montero is built on two major chords a half-step apart, Pay Your Way In Pain's harmony is mostly just a chromatic sliding bassline, and NDA has that diminished triad arpeggio thing.
6) The statement "the entire Romantic period was basically just one long, increasingly complicated chord progression" is an intentional oversimplification for emphasis and comedic effect. I don't need you to explain to me that they were doing, like, orchestration stuff too or whatever. I know.
7) For the sake of transparency, the two songs in Rick's iTunes video where I interpreted his reaction as not entirely positive were Leave Before You Love Me and Good 4 U. The other 8 he seemed pretty completely in favor of, at least as far as I could tell. Feel free to go watch the video and compare for yourself.
8) Technically, Lemonade was produced by Columbia in partnership with Beyonce's own company, Parkwood Entertainment. I have no idea how the financial risk was distributed between the two companies, but the point remains that Beyonce is in a position to take these sorts of risks because of her success as a major-label artist.
1991 was definitely a huge year for music in general - rock, hip hop and soul as you mentioned, but electronic music was in the middle of a *massive* explosion of genres and styles right around that time too.
@@VeraLycaon Probably not interesting for the majority, but it's arguably also one of the best years for death metal
We don't "collectively decide" what's forgotten, the music industry decides for us.
@@OjoRojo40 The music industry has an influence sure, through marketing primarily. However, they can only thisly influence new discovery of music, and then only to a lmited degree.
Society does decide what songs are "forgotten." More accurately, we decide which ones are remembered, long after the marketing cycle has passed. We continue to listen to our favorite songs. We play them around other people. We request them on the radio or stream them. We play them on jukeboxes in public places. The owners of such places play them for bgm. Local bands perform cover versions. There are so many ways in which we decide what we remember and what sticks -- "the industry"'s marketing behavior is alnost irrelevant, beyond initial discovery.
@@emolatursphone203
You can only continue to listen your favourite song if it was recorded or orally transmitted in the first place, alas the time of raconteurs/bards is long gone and if your song was not recorded at some point it will disappear. The medium and material conditions dictate what is conserved and what is forgotten. Who controls the medium, controls the message as they say (not McLuhan quote!). Music, as pretty much everything in our system, has become just another commodity.
"the industry"'s marketing behavior is almost irrelevant, beyond initial discovery”.
This doesn’t make much sense. If it wasn’t for the initial discovery you would have never heard of the song, ergo it could have never become popular or remembered.
Is there true independent music in the world? Sure and it can be great and innovative, will this music be remembered? Most probably not.
Try this exercise, think about great songs you and your friends remember and tell me how many of those were not pushed into your brain by the music industry, via marketing, concerts, radio, TV, all the corporative apparatus.
Pop music isn't "TODAY'S MUSIC"
It's today's "POP" music.
Which will never be remembered.
I used to work with someone who would frequently check the Top 10 songs in each country. I thought most of it was horrendous. I asked him what he thought was the best song of the year. The answer : Tonight I'm Fucking You by Enrique Iglesias.
@@juleswinnfield9931 Which is valid to say because quite a bit of whatever "Pop" music is out at the time is typically garbage made to cater to young audiences who like things that sound with the times to bounce to at parties. I mean, there was terrible music on the radio in the 50s and 60s too, most of which has now been forgotten, just like 2010s pop music will be irrelevant and forgotten in 2050.
@@SOHCGT96 pop music in the 60s and 70s still stands up as some of the best music around in those decades though. I guess there was less entertainment industry selevtion based on factors other than being good music?
@@barringtonwomble4713 haha! Holy shit, that's a real song! I had to look it up.
We gotta stop combining modern music and mainstream music into one category
True, but people used to be able to appreciate mainstream music that wasnt dumbed down.
When? What was it? How did you decide it wasn't dumbed down?
@@greenfloatingtoad it happened gradually throughout the decades
can you be more specific? What are you basing this claim on?
@@greenfloatingtoad I guess saying that modern mainstream music is just complete garbage is not gonna cut it? Thats (to some) subjective after all. But take look at any mainstream top list from the 70's, 80's and 90's and there was far more variety of genres. Mark the word "mainstream" ofc theres still good music being produced, but whats popular is more narrow and simple.
I get the feeling that music has always been like this. Only the great tracks survive the sands of time and everything else crumbles to dust.
Pretty much.
The human brain is ridiculously good at filtering out bad shit and hyper emphasizing good shit. It’s the whole reason why nostalgia exists and why 90% of people throughout time end up thinking “the shit that was around when i was a kid was great and new stuff is trash” regardless of time period.
Obviously tastes are subjective, but I don't need to complain about 2023 to see that pop music has been progressively getting simpler and less interesting (to me). I'd struggle to name as many good albums, that were commercially successful and released in the time span from 2010-2023, as he named for 1991 alone. That was not the case when I was remembering music from the same distance back then. The selective memory aspect may act as an amplification effect, on top of other effects like getting more discerning and sophisticated as you grow older, but none of that is sufficient to explain away the degradation of quality in pop music in my opinion. That's not to say that good music isn't being made anymore, but the industry has changed so much, that we don't even have the same mechanisms for things getting popular anymore.
Not really there has definitely been a decline the music sales tells the story, music just doesn't sell anymore.
Yes, but modern music sucks. The year 2000 was almost a quarter century ago. Where are the great tracks since then? Shouldn't something have been sieved by now?
@@jimmyjakes1823 i've heard plenty?
I'm 43 and I grew up in the 80's/90's, both great decades for music, but there definitely was 5hit stuff being released! As we get older we romanticize the stuff we liked and ignore the rest!.
For the first two decades of our lives (possibly a bit longer) music is aimed at us, it forms identity, represents many "firsts" in life and basically transports you back to a time and place, its nostalgia. Once we get beyond 30 we more than likely have other priorities; marriage/children/ mortgage/career and it's now for the generation coming up behind us to get what we got.
In recent years, I have bought best of albums from many 80's groups; "Depeche Mode", "Tears For Fears" etc etc, basically all the stuff I grew up with, and the music my mum use to play (she would be proud ! - RIP Mum).
There is still "good" music, it just depends what your looking for, and knowing where to find it.😊
True that there was alot of shit back then, but we were also very spoiled. Usually there was more good songs coming out each month back then than in years nowdays.
No we don't, maybe you do! I like music my GRANDPARENTS listened to! Big Bands, Elvis. Ed Sheeran, really? I am not trying to relive my youth, I lament what music has become! In the day, you did have to search for new groups and sounds due to relatively limited distribution and broadcasting. Today, anyone with limited talent can buy software that has the sounds you need to make "music". I read somewhere that today's popular music is not what the music is, it is who made it that sells.
@@winstonsmiths2449
>No we don't, maybe you do!
I think it's fair to say priorities change. Sometimes tastes change. Sometimes we're lucky and we enjoy artists now that we also enjoyed back then and it's validated by the talent and quality of the music.
>it's now for the generation coming up behind us to get what we got
Yes and no. My interests in music didn't cement at age 30. I still listen to new things all the time.
Before high school I listened to pop and adult contemporary ballads. Then I started listening to the modern rock format (KITS, Live 105).
When I entered high school, my interests and music diverged in a bipolar sort of way: I continued to discover new artists going forward, and I put the needle down and went back through any vinyl I could. I listened to classical, funk, jazz, progressive rock, 40s and 50s singers.
So like winstonsmiths2449, part of my tastes are more like what my grandparents or their contemporaries would have liked as opposed to my parents. And I have less negative biases against 70s and disco than my parents who would be more nostalgic for 50s an 60s music.
Conversely, I also listen to far more current artists and unknowns than my peers. Far more electronic, demoscene/chiptune, as well as staying current with my favorite classical recordings.
>today's popular music is not what the music is, it is who made it that sells
Labels won't invest massive budgets into artists like Beyonce if they don't have a proven track record of commercial success. It's a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. And at a certain point some labels will underhandedly fake the perception of popularity and success given the tools that exist on the internet today to manipulate truth. I think Lemonade is a poor album that appears to have a quality inversely proportional to the amount of money spent on it. I like one song on it, and the other song I would have liked was hurt by poor lyrics/messaging revealing a soft bigotry of lower expectations. I heard at least two hit/song farm tracks that felt extremely derivative and the first five tracks are just lame. People call it "exploring her artistic side". Some albums are more artistically cohesive than others. Not saying an album has to be, but it does sound like they tried and failed to push in that direction.
Sometimes the groups get in the door because of the 'total package' rather than artistic merit, but that really has diminishing returns.
When people complain about "today's music" they mean the chart toppers, no one ever literally means every single song that is released.
@@peppermintpig974 Love your reply!
"Let's go back 30 years to 1991"
....you didn't have to do that to us. But great video regardless.
Agreed 😝
Ouch
Do you mean he inflicted the pain of being reminded that 1991 was 30 years ago, or the pain of reliving 1991?
@@Sotelurian The first one I guess... I mean, I was born in 91 and the less I think about being already 30, the better.
@@Sotelurian Yes. How dare they blend an epic year of music (not just rock and pop but industrywide) just as I was hitting my teen years. Awk. Ward. Hey at least I had a great soundtrack for it.
The "let's go back 30 years to 1991" line made me say, "shit... I'm getting old." Haha.
Yeah, I feel positively ancient now. wow.
I felt the same. The literal thought that went through my head was: "why is he only going back 10 years when he talks about 30 years ago". Weirdest thing is.... 1991 is my birth year. It's literally my entire lifetime ago and as a grown man with a house, a wife, a job, a dog and a car, my head made it 10 years ago.
Actually remembering that Brian Adams song, made me feel old.
Me too!!
@@stoferb876 Same here! In the UK people were praying for it to no longer be number 1 'cos they were so sick of it!
I'm the same age as Rick and am sympathetic. I grew up on listening to whole records, arguing over deep cuts, etc. As a classical musician, I listen for individual musicianship; plus melodic, harmonic, lyrical, and rhythmic complexity. I like minor keys and introspective/weird lyrics. And, crucially, I don't enjoy dancing.
Net result, I like solos, funky bass lines, intricate drum parts, crunchy harmonies, etc. I usually prefer music that was played on instruments and can be performed live, as opposed to lots of production. Some favorite music includes Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, the Doors, CSN, and grunge. My car radio could get by on one preset, the "classic rock" station.
I don't like excessive repetition - a song should build and change over the length of it, rather than just repeat verses and choruses verbatim. Rap and dance music bore me, Auto-Tune sets my teeth on edge, synthesizers and drum machines sound sterile (part of the reason I found the 80s rather dry and relatively uninteresting).
In all honesty, I've played in orchestras but don't go to many classical concerts anymore because I got tired of the self-indulgence. Ditto for jazz. As a classical conductor, my programs have a rock 'n' roll vibe.
And none of that really matters.
Who gives a **** what I like? Listen to whatever the **** you like. I don't enjoy today's music because, well, it doesn't resonate. And of course it doesn't. Kids will like the music they grow up on for the same reasons I like what I grew up on, but theirs doesn't do the things I want music to do.
For that matter, I didn't like most of the pop music from my era, either. I've been despairing over kids' choice of music for 40 years...
There is great classic rock style music. You just need to dig a little more
@johnwerth8167 although I lean in a slightly different direction, musical taste-wise, you have summed it up almost perfectly.
I am a year or two younger than you & Rick, cut my teeth on the music of the 60s, 70s, rock, blues, a bit of jazz, acapella vocals, and played heavy baroque and classical as a string player and harmony singer.
Listening to modern pop is mostly a very painful experience that I try to avoid as much as possible. (I also agree on much the music of the 80s, too.)
In 1991 I was 11 years old and preferred to listen to 'In The court of the Crimson King' (full album) to most of the albums out at the time. And I had only one friend who understood it.
but isn't interest in music all about challenging your familiarity? I grew up hating pop music and only caring about rock and blues music. But I've since understood my error. there is so much interesting and radical music today. I would have never expected to hear something so strange as and also so definitely pop as Vroom Vroom by Charli XCX for example. My point is: you're missing out.
I don't believe synths or edm have to be dry and I think deadmau5s methodology is proof of that with tracks like whelk then and no problem
If you want interesting music made today, ya gotta get out of the mainstream, and ya gotta expand beyond whatever type of music you liked when you were 15. There's always something good to find in any era, and the biggest problem with finding it today is that there's so much being made each and every week. Something only a few people have heard today will be essential listening for the masses in a few decades.
l've actually have been "looking out there" for a solid three years with the intention of ending the "getting outta the mainstream" argument, to the point l had to put together a spreadsheet so l don't end up checking out what l've already listened to. My man l gotta tell you l must've found roughly FIVE bands l really liked, and l enjoy everything from the 60s and up; from death metal to pop, through rave and techno
@@fernandoramoa7079lol, that's wild man.
I did, and most of it is boring. Indie music has experienced the same phenomenon of everything blending together in an effort to sound popular enough.
@@bunsenn5064 I mean you have a point if you're talking about the genre "indie," but taking the original meaning of the word as independent you can find all kinds of extremely diverse and interesting music.
“Everything I do, I do it for you” was on the radio 10 times a day. I heard it alright.
i literally had never heard that song until they did a parody (sort of?) of it on family guy like ten years ago. And i actually haven’t heard it since.
"We'll be in Nottingham by nightfall"
Robin hood, on the south coast, before the construction of the M1.
We couldn't get away from it. It was the lead single for the soundtrack of that Robin Hood movie, the one with Kevin Costner playing English Nobility sans accent 😂. So, yeah I remember it getting pushed pretty heavily.
And it basically became a meme before we declared things that.
@@deralfenderson ohhhh that video 😣 🤣
In pretty sure music itself isn't getting worse, the *music industry* is.
are you sure about that? the music album has been horrible for decades my friend
@@user-vk2cd9qw7i wow, I used to think like you....
I don't disagree with you. But I don't think it is a (him or her) situation. It is BOTH of em'.
The music industry has always been bad. We just have more ways to see it
@@billysnooze6608 We also have nowadays access to stuff outside the industry. If I want to listen to classical baroque music I can find it. If I want to listen to Mongolian folk music I can find it. If I want to watch a guy playing a song he made in his bedroom I can find it. If I want to listen to a technopop remix made by an unknown DJ I can find it. The music industry is not all music.
“Everything I Do (I Do It For You)” is the only English song from 1991 that’s still played and adored all over China to this day. It actually has a ton of staying power in the majority of the world. More so than the other songs mentioned actually. Your view is a valid one of course, but a very American one.
I mean it was also covered in South Park so its got a good amount of staying power in the West too I think. Its a simple tune I was pleasantly surprised to be instantly humming the melody after he said it.
I know the song and like it, but then I’m old enough to have kissed some girls to it while it was topping the charts. It is surely dated, however. But so are the jeans and hairstyles everyone is wearing again. So who knows.
It is still a classic...
@@jasonp9508 I'm 17 and listen to this song on the regular. It may not be as popular as smells like teen spirit but it's not like it was totally forgotten
Yeah I agree that's a bad example of a song that won't endure the song still being played
I'm quite surprised that you presented "Everything I Do (I Do It For You)" as an unknown forgotten song. Perhaps that's the case in America? Here in central Europe, it's one of the most notorious "romantic" radio songs I know. It's played on radios that play softer music very frequently and every time there is something like "an hour of romantic songs", you can be almost certain that it will be there. It's similar to notoriety to "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing" by Aerosmith.
No, it's huge here in America too. This guy is a clown.
Absolutely even in India, he is know for this romantic song even today . Not sure why he picked ..
@@JohnPrepucehuge is a bit of an exaggeration. Maybe if it was popular when you were young, I guess.
@@RingsOfSolace - What is your definition of huge? Sales? Current radio play versus lifetime radio play of the piece? Online streams? I honestly would like to know what you mean by huge? "Everything I do" is definitely in the top 200 pop songs of the era from 1950 to current day, easily, in almost every metric. Are current 15 year olds singing it? probably not, but, thankfully, that demographic is not the ultimate decider of "quality" or "taste" in this world.
@johnprepuce4682 it being actually relevant in the current age and not one that's long past
There’s only two kinds of music in the world… The kind you like, and the kind that sucks.
Wrong. The two kinds of music are the kind that is written and performed by musicians that wanted to express their ideas and leave a legacy that lasts decades, and the kind that is written by committee and programmed and manipulated by computers for morons to jump around to and then forget by the next year.
@@eltorpedo67 ikr
There’s a third type for me: metal
@@eltorpedo67 what makes you think youre so much smarter and better than people who just want to enjoy simple music
@@dame-e-in1258 maybe coz it gives him a sense of superiority
"I don't wanna notate this"
And nobody could possibly blame you for that.
Your point about "(Everything I Do) I Do It For You" caught me by surprise. I don't know if you haven't heard it on the radio or something, but as a guy in his early 20s, I've heard that song a bunch of times. More than I've heard any of the other songs you listed in that example, actually
The issues is that guys like Rick don't frame their arguments the same way as dudes like Zappa did. The issue with the worsening of music isn't confined to music, it applies to all art, and only really the mainstream. There will always be good underground art, if we're lucky good independent art will keep leaking through to the mainstream too. However from the beginning to the end of the 20th century a big shift happened in the priorities of the business. We went from a time of film and record companies competing with other for the attention of the public by placing a premium on uniqueness and originality, to an oligopoly of really risk averse profiteers. It happened in a more slow, complex and socio-political way than Rick knows how to explain, it didn't suddenly happen in the late 90s (Zappa was basically saying the same shit in the 80s before he died) so he comes across as an old man yelling at clouds. He's not entirely wrong, but I don't think he supports his argument convincingly either.
I'm old enough to confirm that "(Everything I Do) I Do It For You" by Bryan Adams was everywhere in 1991.
I’m not too old, just turned 30 but yeah I know “Everything I Do”, it was played everywhere when I was a kid and actually it’s still played here in my country quite often in malls and cafes etc. Most of people my generation (90s kids) know it too, but maybe it’s unfamiliar with Gen Z.
@@sandro_the_guy Zoomer here to anecdotally report that I'm intimately familiar with "(Everything I Do) I Do It For You" as well
Kind of weird for him to act like the song didn't have any longevity to be honest. While Bryan Adams might be something of a whipping boy of music much like Nickelback, it's not like people don't know his music (or at least his big singles).
@@jakenbakin9086 Might just be a situation where he himself had never heard the song before and projected that unto people who watches his videos
I'm only 18 but I'm literally named after Bryan Adams so I'm quite familiar lol
Thanks for the shoutout :)
Fantastic video
Also though I love Bryan Adams lol
keep a check on your oxygen levels bruh, love from earth
I'm not Bryan Adams, and I've heard that song so many times that I know all the lyrics while hating it. 😭
I was introduced to Bryan Adams in Spirit: stallion of the cimarron, and it did fir the movie quite well.
Sure, I wouldn't exactly listen to him on a daily basis... but that's hardly the point. Sometimes, some things are good in some places,
and just because they're not good in other places does not mean they're bad.
You won't use a blacksmith's power hammer making a dress, and it's hard fishing with an oboe, but those two things are really good in their right place, so...
Is this You Andrew talking in the video ?( which is great BTW) I think he has the same way as talking as you and the same voice too .
That's because you are Canadian
As an old guy, I just want to say I DEFINITELY remember “Everything I Do”. Hearing just that snippet of it made me think of my elementary school crush. You young people don’t know that song?
Nope
As an even older guy - I do remember that song. Not for me, thank you, but 'taste' is subjective. Music is/can be very emotionally charged. It depends on the listener at that particular point in time/life, so 'Everything I Do' will have a different meaning to each individual. I grew up in 'The Beatles era' with my main musical tastes developing in the '70's- the Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin years.
Ofc I have heard everything I do. It’s a classic. Btw I’m 17.
"Everything I Do" was a totally legit song musically, interesting and enjoyable to hear, with an innovative "dialogue" between the singer and the music (it was a line - music answer - line - musical answer), nice variations and bridges, and strong production that songs like "My Heart Will Go On" learned from.
ofc I know it. I am 36 tho
I grew up totally fetishising 90s alternative music. I still love a lot of it and certain albums will always hold a special place in my heart, but I'm 32 now and genuinely believe that we live in one of the most exciting eras for music.
I discover fantastic new albums across multiple genres on a weekly basis and completely disagree with the idea that music is getting worse. It's not - it's expanding and diversifying in a totally unprecedented fashion. The mainstream will always be the mainstream and, apart from occasional glimmers of subversion, can often feel uninspired. But if you just scratch the surface even a little bit, you'll never run out of new music to fall in love with.
I actually respect Rick Beato quite a bit, but I also pity his reluctance to expand his musical horizons. Music is not getting worse, we just become complacent consumers as we age and are constantly chasing the highs of our teenage years/early 20s. Those highs are still out there, you just need to start looking in some different places.
Rick Beato gives modern pop music a fair shake, and has a surprisingly open mind. Popular music is unquestionably getting worse from corporate rot, which plagues most late-stage industries. Art by consensus is simply not better than when it comes from a singular voice or vision. Most of the pop hits today have 10-20 songwriters on them versus one to two to four songwriters from fifty years ago. It's not even debatable.
I think it is an unspoken assumption we are talking about mainstream music.
The top 40 - or whatever it's called these days - does not, nor ever did, represent the enormous diversity in music.
It was more representative in the past when there was a huge barrier to producing and releasing a high quality album. Today, someone like Bill Withers would just be doing his own thing releasing songs on youtube, back then he had to satisfy major labels to get his music made, get screwed over, and quit forever.
@@AfferbeckBeats Even in the past, the Top 40 charts were inundated with plenty of formulaic, contrived "bubblegum music" - short-term minor hits which have, with a handful of notable exceptions, mostly vanished from collective memory.
My friend Arne: diversity is not synonymous with quality of music, it never was. In the same way that hits in the top 20 are not in any way synoymous with quality. When it happens , it is a rare astronomical event.
@@gs032009 thats not his point. his point is you cant judge modern music based on the top 40 songs.
I've always had the perspective that just because I don't like something, doesn't mean it isn't good. it just means I don't like it.
Same here!🤔
As you should. Try taking that perspective to Rick Beato's audience. It's an echo chamber there.
Theres stuff i like that i know isnt great (poorly written, basic, cliche, pick your poison) and stuff i hate that i know is good. And stuff i love thats good, stuff i hate thats bad. Im keeping it simple. Its ok to like what we like. Nothing wrong with being objective too. You can have both!
I’m always fascinated when I find a song I really don’t like, trying to figure out what about it makes me react so negatively. Sometimes this leads to new insight into my own tastes or biases, sometimes it helps me better understand a song on its own terms.
@@furmanarrangements i completely agree. Its even rewarding. Like, we expanded some level thinking just by giving something a chance and putting some effort into it. I just wish people put more effort into listening in general. Cause i usually just sound like a broken record that doesnt like anything. But i like a ton, its just generally not on the radio lol
i liked both your arguments and the way you presented them. You were on point, never strayed off too far from the topic and tackled the subject with a lot more precision than Rick (or anyone else - not that i read/watch many musical experts) ever did.
Actually it's more about style than when a piece of music was released. Also it's about the individuals taste. Most mainstream airplay music IS boring and lyrics are simple and sometimes downright idiotic. But there are lots of young bands playing great rock music in the underground today.
This is a better take than the one in the video.
Most mainstream music is pretty dogshit in every year, the sieve of time as explained in the video is the reason you think everything was gold back then and everything is trash now. In 30 years someone’s going to be holding up post malone and the weeknd as the pinnacles of creativity and calling whatever is playing in that time period garbage.
Go look up ALL of the music that was released in your favorite time period instead of just the greats.
Also, a lot of these "modern music is bad" arguments center around just pop music like we don't have hundreds of other genres flying around, all using their own systems of understanding music, all pushing their own frontiers.
And only mainstream pop. There’s plenty of really good experimental pop groups that get left out of the discussion
Like listen to any kero kero bonito song that came out after generation
@@downhill2k013 100 gecs, SOPHIE(rip), Dorian Electra, Daniel Harle (pc music in general), and the afforementioned Kero Kero Bonito are all taking the conventions of pop and producing experimental and evocative music with those tools. But a big part of what makes pop pop is its broad appeal, and keeping some aspects simple is a big part of that.
The actual argument being made 8 times out of 10, is that hiphop is nowadays more popular than rock
(Video game soundtracks have entered the chat)
@@AuroraNCSinger Yes! My grasp of how many styles and genres there are would be halved if it wasn't for video game soundtracks and the remixes of them people make.
"Parents are right about the music their children listen to: most of it sucks. And children are right about the music their parents listen to: most of that sucks too."
sturgeon's law
THANK you!
I think less of the parent's music sucks. I have attachments to bad music I liked when I was young, but I tend to know music is always great and which music is mostly nostalgia for me and may or may not be good at any given time in the future.
You can acclimate yourself to the bad stuff I liked as a kid, too, but it takes very little effort to acclimate yourself to The Beatles' "Hey Jude" or Boyz II Men's "End of the Road". They're just good.
So all music sucks?
@@oranpf Hey Jude sucks, easily the worst Beatles song.
It’s not that all music today sucks, it is that the stuff that get pushed is largely redundant garbage. You have to search and discover the good stuff because it surely isn’t going to be delivered to you conveniently.
Yeah, go to any small club, be it jazz , blues, rock whatever, you'll see lots of amazing young bands play great music. It's out there for anyone to discover. It just tends to be less in the charts. Then again when one of the old guys makes a new album, lets say Ozzy, it still places highly in the charts. So the appetite is out there, the commercial music industry just isn't presenting it unless it's someone super famous and they have no choice.
What is the concept of "the sieve of time" that he refers to? I was trying to google the phrase, but I didn't get any useful results.
Adam Neely's predicted that emphasis on timbre will be the next big thing. As a former DJ who would dig through hours of pretty repetitive music looking for electronic music with "the coolest sounds", I think he could be right.
It’s been like that since electronic music was invented though I think
I really hope it is. I need a reason to justify having all my gear.
The eclecticism of timbre has been a fundamental feature of pop music for a long time.
I'm not all too much into music but a good soundfont can make a fantastic sound.
When you listen to some retro inspired music there's just a ton of cool fonts people can possibly use.
There's also ZUNs music (Touhou games) which to this day uses a neat trumpet sound that has been dubbed Zunpet due to how often and memorable it is used.
What video was that?
Oh, to have lived in a country where "(Everything I Do) I Do It for You" was only number one for seven weeks. It had a 16-week run at the top here in the UK.
I was born in 2002 and
Yet I have heard of and know that song,
I think my parents were the cause?
It's a soft rock radio staple in Canada. I've heard it so many times
🤣😂🤣
It's still all over those "Non-stop" radio stations with a mix that is designed to appeal to as many people as possible. Heard it on Skyradio (our Dutch equivalent of one of those stations) just a week ago, and would probably have heard it even shorter ago if I listened to that channel on my own...
And is the all-time (consecutive) weeks at #1 record holder to this day. Although a couple have come close to equalling it with 15 weeks runs, and Frankie Laine with I Believe still holds the total weeks at #1 record (18)
Enjoyed the video, but what about including instrumentation and tempo into your analysis? It in today's top 40 I rarely hear any tempo or key changes and instrumentation is very samey. Shouldn't that count too? And comparing what kind of genres you find on the charts back in the 90s back to today?
Exactly. Furthermore, there are almost no dynamic changes, at all.
I saw this video pop up a while ago and didn’t watch it because I assumed I wouldn’t like it but I actually really do. I like rick’s videos and I’m glad you talked about just looking at the top ten songs on the charts right now. He does it with all genres like metal and rock as well and it doesn’t give the best picture of what is really out there. And actually watching rick’s videos on some of those songs ironically made me break out of my rock and more specifically grunge sphere and grow to become a fan of a lot more music that I just took one look at before and skipped because I assumed I wouldn’t like it.
I think this video was extremely constructive and I was pleasantly surprised! People love music and even if it isn’t “my” music I can respect that people like it. And it is always exciting when someone gets interested and passionate about music. Even if it is a style or genre that I’m not a particular fan of.
Great video👍🤘
Thanks for being a good, honest person. Most Rick Beato subscribers who saw this video disliked it just cause it went against him.
A good visual example of the "sieve of time' is to watch any movie made in the 60s, verses a movie set in the 60s, but made today. The modern movie will show all the cool cars from the 60s. Mustangs, italian exotics, etc. The actual 60s movie will show all the crap cars that people bought back then, but were crap cars, that faded away, scrapped in junkyards.
Didn’t Tarantino did a good job with his prop cars? All very appropriate
Yeah, he did.
That's a great analogy I think, like cars poor quality music will break down and fade away
@@AllonKirtchik not really. He did the exact same thing and he's reused that karmann ghia in 3 damn movies already
super great point, never even considered that
I like it when Rick talks about things he loves. I dislike when Rick talks about things he dislikes. He's great at analyzing things he appreciates, and he's bad at putting aside personal distaste when he's criticizing. And he usually doesn't frame it as personal distaste. He makes it sound like an objective measure of quality.
His conservative boomer tendencies/biases can get the better of him and his audience sometimes
You're either on to something or you're.....yeah, you're on to something
This is 100% accurate. I think his purely educational/celebratory videos are excellent, and his "Why X sucks" videos are entirely worthless as far as better understanding music goes.
Yeah I enjoy his analysis videos, but I'm sick of his rants. It's just the same complaints about modern pop music (which he obviously won't like b/c he's a boomer music producer), getting angry at copyright policy, and trying to explain all of music theory in 30 minute livestreams. Also, his paid courses/books are worthless, don't bother buying anything from his shop
Thats music youtube in a nutshell. Attack artists bc they dont align with their subjective tastes
I get a laugh every time you smoothly transition into the Skill Share add. I never see it coming and don't realize it until like 20 seconds in cause it flows so well with the rest of the video.
This was honestly so helpful for me in terms of songwriting. I always wanted to do it but thought that I need to know more music theory and be able to play my instruments better. Now that I do it has almost become a hinderance because I keep thinking that my ideas while sounding good are not complex or innovative enough. This has really helped me challenge that mindset.
Pfffttttt.... Just go back the 1920s and tin pan alley to look at how songwriting was complex but not complex or even the blues from the 20s. All the music folks that hate modern music LOVE all that old stuff. So they know simple isn't bad. It's just when it feels like a product 1st and music 2nd or 3rd that people hate.
Seriously check out Cole Porter, or Bessie Smith, or Dorothy Fields, Irving Berlin for "simple" lyrics. Cole Porter especially was adept at fun word play while keeping the lyrics simple. Or hell even look at the sonmgwriting for Motown in the 60s or the Brill Building in the same era. Brilliant songs with often simple lyrics but songs largely hailed as classic songs.
I use the same arguments when I need to defend modern music, but there's one thing I noticed as an independent musician myself: yes I can produce good quality records in my bedroom, release it to all the streaming platforms, and have no pressure from labels, but there is still a big pressure source - the top of the charts. At least in my country this top often consists of, well, questionable music, sometimes not even made by musicians, but bloggers, comedians, and other already famous people. And the problem is not that those songs are simple in harmony, they're just very cliched, similar, and consciously made to gain some big short-term success and then to be forgotten a few months later. And the issue is that most people I know (if they're not musicians or music lovers) - listen just to these chart-toppers. And when they hear my music or music I love, for example, Dodie you mentioned, or even Billie Eilish - they say that it's nice and pleasant and well-made, but too complicated, sad and underground) And those cliched tracks are just the tip of the iceberg, yes, and just a bit deeper there are lots of very good modern music, but this tip has a very big influence on the whole music landscape, and 80-90 percents of listeners are aware only about those short-term chart-toppers. And young musicians who make a bit more original music often having huge difficulties with gaining audience and acceptance, and I'm asked all the time why I don't make tracks like in those charts) Perhaps it has always been like this, but that's the thing that bothers me in the modern music industry.
This is what bothers me about that argument too.
12Tone talks about the Sieve of Time, all well and good, but how does that work with a musical landscape as segmented as the one we see today?
If anything I'd argue that this will lend even more weight to massive labels over the arc of history.
How do you come to some sort of consensus about what's meaningful when there are thousands of tiny pockets, many of them only accessible to the chronically online, defining their own version of meaningful?
@@rainbowkrampus Maybe we stop havign consensus and have to learn to entertain multiple perhaps mutually incompatible senses of what is valuable when listening to someone.
This could be good for at least a couple reasons. One is that what becomes classic is actually very cultural, which is to say not-objective, and if people had a greater variation on what they considered "classic" then that could be social force which makes it harder to have rigid views on what is classic. Another is it could allow more diverse artists and genres to stick around in people's minds for longer and find the audience they most resonate with, which could lead to longer lasting traditions and microtradtions in music for people study, riff on, and break into new genres.
Personally, I know I would like people to lose a sense of some clear idea of "classics" and large consensus ideas about what is good in other artistic areas I am interested. In Star Wars fandom, in my experience fans of different trilogies or eras especially, often resorting to trying to prove what is "objectively right" and making people with more fringe opinions feel crappy. The more content, particularly film and TV content, that gets released over time, the more that it seems that people can have different constellations of opinions and I like to think that is leading to a healthier and broader perspective among many fans.
I think RB still has a point in that in a segmented landscape there is only a handful of places where there is mass awareness of top charts of Spotify, top 100, and top itunes.
So when most audiences are scattered in disparate niches, the only place you know you can find a common-ground audience is in those top charts. That creates a natural bias in who becomes big enough to talk about. People in a niche genre will definitely have their niche celebs, but crossover success still involved appealing to that common ground sound in those top charts.
I think the most compelling counterpoint here is in the other aspects of the songs besides the complexity of the chord progressions. Sometimes they're doing very entertaining and interesting things rhythmically, lyrically, or doing fun things in production. Sometimes it's just plain catchy.
You put that so well. Mind if I quote you when people ask me about this?
@@stephenweigel thank you) sure, I don't mind at all)
2:56 "If you're not personally Bryan Adams, there's a good chance this is the first time you've ever heard it." Sheesh, how young is your audience?!
I had to check my pulse.
Turns out I’m dead. 👻
1991 was 9 years before my time, I'm also 21 years old
Song also came out before I was born, but I guess I was lucky to have known it since I was 4 or so...
That's my mom's caller tune and I've heard it a million times. I'm 23 lol
I was 11 when that came out. Can't believe there's people who've never heard it.
Devin Townsend's Kingdom is the perfect example as to why just looking at the chords being used isn't a good metric to judge a song, but rather how they're being used. That first major change he makes at about 2 minutes hits really hard after the consistent wall of sound that comes before it.
4:35 I think it is obvious Rick was talking about 4 singular chords from a singular key occurring in many songs, not that songs were using four chords from one key.
BANDCAMP exists, there's an entire underground scene exploding with insane Musical virtuosity. Spotify isn't the end all be all of today.
I second this, I find gems on SoundCloud nearly every week. Best paid subscription I have.
Thank god, I dont know how many times Ive read the question "why isnt this on spotify"
LOL people who search music on bandcamp or souncloud are tiniest minority of all music listeners, most people just listen what's on radio or those top 10 spotify lists, and most of those listenesr think: "if its on the top 10 is because it must be good", when it's just marketing.
You don't even need to go to bandcamp, tbh. Most midstream artists, the ones releasing most records in the aoty discussion every year, are on spotify. People are just lazy and don't want to search
"The Vaults"
Steve Reich would like a word on simplicity.
👏👏👏 👏👏 👏 👏👏
Definitely. If he demonstrated anything is that the most complex ideas can be expressed in the simplest and purest ways.
So would Sonja Lang.
❤️
@@yetanothertubeuser 👏👏👏 👏👏 👏 👏👏 👏
Many times I've looked at charts from decades past and been shocked at how many songs I had never heard of were at the top.
my guy you have almost nailed the art of storytelling and selling your point, from vocal pitch to framing sentences and the visual portion of the video too makes you look professional.
This is exactly the kind of "respectful disagreement" that the world is lacking
Would love to see Adam Neely weigh in! 2021 summit on modern music!
@@cvdrumsandshtuff THIS!!!^^^^^
@@cvdrumsandshtuff +Tantacrul and David Bennett who have both alread expressed their opinions on the matter.
We’re collectively losing the capacity to disagree. Respectfully.
Almost.
“Production is… hard”
Oh no is this a skillshare ad
“Fortunately that’s the thing skillshare is great at”
Godamnit
Ya I know...pretty much ruined his credibility there!
Lmao that transition was funny af
and that is one smoooooth ad transition.... smooth AF, IMHO
Gotta love how easy it's become to realize exactly where and when content creators sell their dignity :)
@@GMAtheory oh no someone needs money, what a sell out
Dude, you're making so nice and interesting Videos! I really like them!
I have a personal question: In another video you were drawing a little Feynman Graph, in this one you were writing down the relativistic energy - momentum relation. Do you have any physics background? I didn't expect those little cartoons from someone who obviously studied music.
Regards
Stephan
Rick knows exactly how a song is constructed so when he says new music is boring, he's saying that 90% is made to a formula of 4 to 5 cords which have been used to the same effect for 40 years with little originality. It's true that we all romanticise songs from our past but song writers now appear to have a huge issue with releasing anything truly interesting and/or unique. In the last 20 years, the record companies are mostly to blame for dumbing down mainstream music (mainly to reduce production costs) hence the need to look to indie artists for the kind of stuff that was everywhere between the 70's and 2000's. Plus listening to an 80's radio station today, I got the overwhelming impression that music back then was also fun. Music now is all too moody and serious.
"Let's go back 30 years to 1991" look I'm sure you're a nice person, but for that, now it's on sight.
what
edit: oh ok
Trust me 30 years ago in 1991 that Bryan Adams song *was* everywhere. You couldn't get away from it and everyone was sick of it long before it stopped being played on Top of the Pops every bloody week. I have no idea who was buying it to keep it at number 1 but it just would. not. leave.
That song was in fact everywhere, it also, if memory is right, came out and had its impact much easier than the albums he mentioned that year. I recall Robin Hood and Brian Adams being big before grunge took off. I could be wrong but that is how I remember it
Remember that 1991 was the dawn of SoundScan. Before that the charts were a lot more subjective than they should have been. I think you can’t separate the introduction of SoundScan and the sea change of popular music in 1991.
i think in part it was held up by the crossover marketing from the kevin costner robin hood movie that was huge at the same time. i feel like it also came at the tail end of a few very successful richard marx ballad singles. in a way, i can look back on it as the last words of 1985-1991 pop ballad (with huge gated reverb drums) while dying hard. it had been fully indulged to its logical end.
Yep, that song was the equivalent of someone putting a dead fish in your cars heating system.
@@sweeterthananything It is also worth pointing out that smells like teen spirit made it to number 6 on the billboard 100 (and it did get to number one on the alternative billboard chart). It was a pretty inescapable song from 91 to 92 (and I am not a fan of Nirvana at all: I can't stand their music)
Thanks for the video!
It would be interesting a video about the role of contemporary classical (or academic) music in the future of music, if there is any.
You hit the needle on the head here man. So many people don't understand that most of music is about balancing the creativity or yourself with the expectation of what you're already known for. I love to make super complex and super basic songs all the time, but when I decide to release them, I usually end up changing them to a form that appeals more to the average consumer, while still sounding like what I envisioned
It's "hit the nail on the head"
@@philspear73 I think they were making a music pun. Like needle of a record player
Sturgeon’s Law: 90 percent of everything is crap.
Too true! As they say, "there's plenty of room at the top" too - same principle 😉
And boring, of course. It bores me the Fudge out
VOLA's A Stare Without Eyes is the last musical masterpiece that will never be topped until we go extinct
is this law in the good 10% of laws or the crap 90%?
Music theory is a tool for describing sounds not assigning them value.
Excellent observation.
Describing sounds is a necessary part of evaluating sounds.
Do you have any opinion about any music?
I find it weird to go around acting like it's best to not have any opinion or something (what you're trying to say is very unclear).
@@enggopah an opinion of the music one is listening to is different to assigning it a value you treat as the objective fact regarding its complexity as a musical piece. Opinion isn’t the same thing as fact, you shouldn’t disguise your opinion of musics worth as fact by falsely claiming that because something doesn’t line up with the codified system it is “objectively bad” that’s a bad argument, it doesn’t make sense, people around the world make music with very different rules, it’s a human experience, not just a bunch of noises in a row to be ranked and evaluated, even me as someone who did drum corps, aka competitive professional marching band, where we are judged and given a score by judges on the field, even I can recognize that in that moment, I’m still making music, a product that isn’t good or bad, my execution is what is being critiqued, my music is standalone, it’s there for the crowds enjoyment. So I guess what I’m trying to say is, you just aren’t in the right crowd I guess, but that doesn’t make everyone else wrong for standing there
@@captainkiwi77 No one on earth would say that opinion is the same thing as objective fact. But if you give reasons for why something may be objectively bad in particular ways, whether or not you are correct, why is that bad in itself? You are passing off that opinion of yours as objective fact, by the way. It's very closed minded.
Not that I ever have heard Rick do that. I don't think so at least. But no one has given any reason why it is wrong to do that. Evaluating the worth of something doesn't negate anyone's enjoyment of that thing. Enjoyment always has value in itself, especially if you aren't hurting anyone.
What is your favorite book? Now, would you say that Mein Kampf cannot be distinguished at all, it has to have exactly the same value as your favorite book? There is no way of assessing it objectively?
If you don't like the analogy I understand, but again, no one has given any reason why one should not assess objective value of music. Yes, obviously the subjective experience of that music is the direct effect of that music, but that is part of the objective effect of the music. Music, like anything, affects society and is affected by society. It affects minds and is affected by minds. This can all be evaluated.
If I go on the street and play some classical music on guitar for people, is no discussion allowed about any difference in objective value between that and going out there and screaming slightly pitched obscenities in a rhythmic pattern?
Please give me one reason to believe that music should not be evaluated objectively.
This comment section has worse reasoning skills than 2 year olds.
I truly appreciate this video. The most important takeaway for me is that even music that seems less complicated on the surface can have a more profound complexity than I might be giving it credit for. I used to be in the camp of all modern music sucks, and it's all part of an earworm algorithm. Then I realized that I still listen to many modern artists and contemporary music, mostly not the mainstream; just like you pointed out, music is more extensive than radio and top 10s. At this point, I started arguing that most modern pop music sucks, but music as a whole is thriving, but I think this video (along with others) will change how I approach contemporary pop music too. Thank you.
Which of the tracks on Lemonade do you think will best stand the test of time?
Radio hit lyrics from the early 80’s says it all
”All this machinery making modern music
Can still be open-hearted
Not so coldly charted, it's really just a question
Of your honesty, yeah, your honesty
One likes to believe in the freedom of music
But glittering prizes and endless compromises
Shatter the illusion of integrity, yeah”
Rush. One of the greatest bands of all time!!!
Well put Lyrics by The Professor!
RIP Neil Peart. Not only a great drummer, but a brilliant (and IMHO underrated) lyricist as well.
Always think of this lyric when looking at this subject.
Neil was right is just a question of honesty. The problem is in my opinion we have a lack of honesty specially on today's pop music.
I simply dont feel any emotion. I feel emotion listening to Mariah Carey or Boys 2 Men. People singing with there hearts.
A lot of people who "hate modern music" actually seem to hate the effects marketing music as a consumable product has had on it. You don't hate modern music, you hate the commodification of art via the music industry and the constant push for something that will sell.
This I think this hits the nail on the head. Is there desperation in the major labels? There seems to be, with all the copyright trolls they employ.
Pretty much. I prefer soulful music over some random teen moaning about drugs and sex
nah, modern music is completely forgettable. Its trash
@@Kiyoone Main stream definitely. Outside of that there is good music to be found, but you really need to look. Depends on your music tastes of course.
So many criticisms of modernity can be very neatly rebutted with: "You don't hate ____, you hate capitalism"
Yess! Thank you! @5:59 - I totally agree with you and it's super frustrating! I'm training as a music teacher and I have to pass all kinds of state exams set by the local conservatoires here in Luxembourg. I'm struggling with them all because I didn't have a traditional music education. I learned by ear - later studied music production at university - and then did my masters in film and game music. My strengths are in producing, composing, sound design and mixing - and have done this professionally for a number of years. I've got a strong and deep understanding of contemporary music 1900 onwards - but I'm being judged on my elementary skills in sight reading/sight singing solfege, whether I can realise a melody with figured bass and analyse a bach choral...
Today’s pop music is boring. No creativity, no individuality, and everyone essentially sounds the same.
Tbh, I considered that Bryan Adams song as being known by basically everyone, without being even a Bryan Adams fan.
same… if you’re someone who’s interested in exploring music of different genres and time periods (which I would say those watching music theory channels usually are), surely you’ll have come across Bryan Adams’ hit songs sooner or later
I don't even know who he is
Same. That song was huge and I’m pretty sure most people over 30 or so know the song.
@@jcmartin1978 I only know it because my parents listen to a polish radio station that plays nothing but music from that era.
It's a pleasent change to hearing nothing but chart-toppers all day long.
Yep, for a moment I felt like something was wrong with me =D the age not being the problem as I am 23.
While still keeping the integrity of your mission/channel and respecting RB's opinion this was a great presentation!
Hey geebs! You should check out Me First And The Gimmie Gimmies. Punk rock covers of show tunes and hit from the last 50 years. Reaction and breakdown
:Misguided, myopic and underinformed" does not equal "respecting", really. Rick Beato cogently demonstrated the lack of invention, innovation and variety in much of modern pop. 12 Tone can disagree, but his criticism seems ironic.
@@stephenmcnamara9928 I think you're confusing things here. While 12tone calls Beato "misguided" and "misinformed," that's not inherently disrespectful, but a concise way of pointing out Beato's flaws.
A lot of Beato's demonstrations of a lack of innovation is coming from a relatively narrow perspective that ignores a lot of the experimentation that goes beyond the melodies and chords themselves.
And I think you're also ignoring the larger breadth of 12tone's discussion, which analyzes Beato on a number of different points, instead of trying to make a strawman of his arguments (which would be disrespectful).
So you calling 12tone's criticisms ironic... Seems flawed.
And I say all this as a big fan of Beato, btw.
I love it when he listens to newer music and points out positives that I was often blind to. But his criticisms of modern music are not quite as nuanced, unfortunately
@@The_Horse-leafs_Cabbage I too consider myself a fan of RB as well as 12tone. And while I'm not much into modern pop music, I have to agree with 12tone on this one.
I do think it'd be incredibly interesting to hear the 2 of them actually have a discussion about it. Hell, get Geebz too and just start a podcast.
Does anyone know the 12tone video containing the phrase “definitive sandwichness?”
4:42 what is that song?
“Any Way You Want It” by Journey
Hard to believe that Filthy Frank made this argument back in his “I hate my Generation” video. That man was ahead of his time
Exactly what I was thinking lmao.
nietzsche made the same point like 150 years ago
Because people like that have existed forever
But Rick Beato is not from this generation. He's like half-foot in the grave.
He seems to be doing pretty well with his music career tho
I love Rick. He and I are the same age and share the same "favorite" band: (need I say it? ). We old guys get cranky sometimes. I think that's pretty much what was going on with that vid. Listen to almost any of his vids critiquing some top 10 list and in general he finds a way to talk about the stuff he likes. UA-cam suggested your video to me 2tone and I enjoyed it. I like what you did here. You took issue with a video and posted a rebuttal. It was well reasoned, creative, and interesting.
Swervedriver?
AxCx?
Is is Status Qou?
I am in total agreement Rich. What Rick's bold statement did ge me doing was going to listen to Amy Shark, DMA's and Gang of Youths to look at why I love these new artists. Rick gave me another lens through which to view music. I am glad UA-cam led me to the @12tone vid.
@@dan73jensen Swervedriver really does slap tho
The problem with making videos like this isn't that the individual is wrong about his/her argument but that people can't leave it at that. The popular belief in the United States is that if you disagree with someone you must hate them and that's absolutely ridiculous. Videos' that counter an argument should be made but people need to understand that just because someone disagrees doesn't make them an enemy. Both 12tone and Rick are outstand contributors to music and both have great opinions.
But the best of music is when you are together, singing, dancing, clapping hands, and rejoicing life.
At the end of the day, music isn't a competition.
As long as you're enjoying yourself and having fun - You're winning!
More people need to realize this!
It’s why a lot of musicians fail. They just can’t seem to relax.
Music itself is not but record companies rip each others eyes (as always) and that impacts on music, for better or worse.
Exactly, the best music is what you think is the best of all, it's all in the ears of the beholder as always, anyone can like anything if they think it's good.
Bravo! Nailed it. “One man’s garbage…” 😅👍
Hands up if you’d heard the Bryan Adam’s song before like thousands of times. That was a weird part of the video. That awful song is BURNED into my memory.
Exactly!!
@@marimcge Same! This and a lot of his songs, especially from "Reckless." I saw a meme of Canada apologizing for giving the world Bryan Adams. On the contrary, we owe Canada a great debt for giving the world Bryan Adams!! Promise I'm not Bryan Adams. ;)
Yup, huge single
I'm sure a subset of people find his music memorable, but the point is that new audiences are still being drawn into Metallica and Nirvana, whereas most young people probably will never hear of Bryan Adams. I think that's what the video was pointing to: you can't compare what a culture remembers to what it values in the present moment.
Yes, that part of video was just funny.
I agree with everything except the comment on lemonade.
I want to love it, but I just sounds an ok pop album. I don’t get whats so amazing about it?
Does it need multiple listens, what am I missing?
yea. me neither... but maybe that's because I'm not a fan of Beyonce
I love Rick's content. And I love 12 tones content. Rick's not wrong about his feelings . 12tone, you are definitely delving much deeper into the suggestion that newer music is weak.. To me you are both right. Based on everything you just said in this video. I think maybe Rick's background in production might have a lot to do with his words cuz maybe he views the production of newer music is so good that it can make the music sound good or even great with not as much where as before it was the better the musicians were the better the album turned out. My explanation of this is very vague. But that's what I think. You both are great to me.
This was a really thoughtful, well balanced video! Great job
David!!! I love how all the music theory UA-camrs are interconnected. Your two latest videos about diminished chords and George Harrison are awesome, btw. You seriously deserve more subscribers
Globalist shills
@@kckstnd8 Someone went through the trouble of designing an algorithm specifically to reinforce their own prejudices? Redefining music in such a way as to exclude music you don't like is nothing new, but this is some next-level gate-keeping.
It wasn’t balanced.
If you think this was balanced, then you’d think Rick was very balanced.
He leaves out the fact that Beato makes the point that it’s low information music, and he’s mostly taking about the Top Hits, usually using Spotify.
This guy takes one sentence to point out that Beato was talking top ten lists. Then the rest is about everything he could think of that Beato didn’t say.
The example of Beyoncé is redundant, because she can spend millions on an album and it doesn’t matter I’m of it sells.
Beato also makes the point that so many of the Top hits are really a baseline and a beat, then auto applied chords, AKA the artist doesn’t play an instrument, or couldn’t play one.
Beato wasn’t taking about all of modern music. He was taking about the majority of what stays at the top the charts nowadays.
This _is_ a younger guy being pissed, because he though the old man was saying all modern music is lazy, simple or all the rest he points out, yet ignores so much of what the Beato videos _actually_ were.
@@chiju wrong again kiddo. The algorithm wasn’t designed to be biased or disclude modern music. The algorithm was designed to identify changes in the ways music is written and produced. By doing that it points out how repetitive simple and basic modern music is. I’d be upset if I was you too because the music you’re coming up with is generic disposable and immemorial. You’ve never had the chance to grow up amongst a music and culture that’s original, creative, independent and intelligent. Instead you’re led to believe that what’s important is money, jewelry, designer clothes, drugs, guns and being tough. All of which is shallow and says a lot about what kinds of music sells. Now contrast those messages with the music/culture of those who came up in the 90’s who valued DIY, community, playing instruments and writing music, being vulnerable and fighting against the macho ideals for men. Could you imagine those who came of age in the 60’s or 70’s thinking money, designer clothes, guns and acting tough are cool? No. You’re music and culture isn’t original. You’re generation won’t have legendary musicians/artists like previous generations had. You’ve been ripped off and you’re ego is too scared to acknowledge it.
“Let’s look at today’s food.”
Looks at McDonalds and Dominos.
Seriously.
Today's food....kale
Well panera sucks...lol
But even with fast food AKA the popular food, you can still compare how they fare over time. Is McDonald's from ten years ago better than it is now? Worse? Why?
VonZuben Exactly, and there are interesting discussions to be had about how trends change in the pop music scene. But unfortunately that’s not what you get from watching Rick Beato’s videos.
Your mentioning the argument of "more complex means more better" reminded me of a Facebook post from a while back that made the same argument, very badly. It had two pictures, one a lead sheet of a Justin Bieber song and the other a full orchestral score of a Mozart symphony, as if it wasn't comparing two completely different ways of notating music. If you transcribed a full score of the Bieber song and compared it to just the melody of a symphony with a chord progression over top, the pop song would look like the more complex of the two.
I feel really fortunate to get to study specifically “popular music” anything in the last century
You also need to realize that what people "remember" is not just a function of what's still relevant and good (necessarily or exclusively) but what the critics and media focus on from years past. The people shaping our view of what was important back then aren't always representative of what was actually QUALITY back then. For example, if intellectual, creative types who are introverts liked the Smiths back in the day and go on to make movies about them, that may distort our view of what deserves to be canon and what doesn't. My point is, just because people stil talk about Nevermind, it doesn't make it inherently better than Everything I Do. (Not a big fan of either, btw.)
Blah blah blah
Case in point, the only Thin Lizzy we’re told is still relevant is “The Boys Are Back In Town.” Meanwhile they had a bunch of other stuff on the radio, credit and respect from other musicians and fans of various genres, even hordes of groupies. People nowadays might be fooled into believing Dexys Midnight Runners were a one-hit wonder, or that Leonard Cohen is just the guy who wrote “Hallelujah.” The only reason I know about this stuff is that I talk with people who were alive back then.
The issue with this argument is that now we have affordable access to vast catalogs, most of which can be accessed in an 'unbiased' way: no more hunting for hidden on side b of a live album sold only in japan. Point being: we have access to these catalogs if we want, if you let critics/reviews/mainstream media shape your opinions, that's on you really, there's homework to do
Nothing what you said made sense. Of course ‘nevermind’ was and is better then ‘everything I do’ and people knew it back then as well.
@@tuneboyz5634 Blah Blah Blah is a great Iggy Pop album, I agree.
lmao Bryan Adams really caught a stray there
I remember that song, iirc it broke records for longest time at no1 in lots of countries
Trying to figure out if he's serious...you might not know it if you're 20 I guess? I'm around mid 30's and it's known by more people than he seems to think...and I'm not even from a country that would be this song's target audience.
@@johndough247 absolutely. I couldn’t relate at all to not knowing it
@@johndough247 I'm 20 and know it really well, but it's because I used to listen to 80s radio a lot
@@johndough247 yep, I thought it was a really poor example. I've heard this song on the radio recently, and have you ever been to karaoke??
Hey ! I really like Rick Beato and I also liked what you had to say in this video ! People like you who are able to bring debate in respectfull ways are the best and we need more ! Thank you
I think the changing nature of media is also an issue. We now can archive and retrieve music far more easily enmasse than ever before. An old song can suddenly get new life and popularity through a meme decades later (or centuries even for some older pieces).
As 12tone himself says in this video, Rick often makes very positive comments about current pop music, it’s not like he’s saying it’s all crap, quite the contrary. He’s just disappointed with the lack of harmonic and melodic originality and complexity, but that doesn’t mean he thinks music these days is all bad and boring. I don’t think Rick considers himself as a music scholar anyway, he’s not aiming to be “scientific” nor objective, he just shares his personal opinions as someone who knows and loves music. Don’t get me wrong, I understand 12tone’s reasoning and I mostly agree with him. Anyway, I like both channels very much, and I would like to see the two make a video together on the topic.
I share the same opinion... many thanks and support to both of them, best of luck everybody, shine on!
You just have to know what to ignore. I'm subbed to him, but I never watched the video in question, because I already know that Rick has a bit of a Nostalgia issue & to just ignore his rants about anything "modern". Tbh, he really doesn't really know a lot about modern music unless it's on a Spotify list.
@@JeighNeither I don’t think that’s a perfectly fair appreciation of Rick’s work and attitude, but I see your point.
My take on the problem: Popular Music was never the front of innovation, whether new or old. The freedom to experiment is largely unavailable to music artists that are meant to sell millions of records. On the other hand I could pick a number of artists of 21st century that had a brilliant sense of musicianship such as tool in 2000s. Even though tool was pretty well known they were just not the band to dominate charts like Maroon 5. As far as complexity is concerned, complexity is actually a myth for me. I rather think of ideas in music individually and how these individual ideas interact with one another and contribute to the artistic expression.I think some ideas are more common than the others and in my opinion musicians who heavily rely on generic ideas do end up with songs obviously sound generic. In this particular case, there's almost no innovation to appreciate and the music even if it may sound good fails to stand out. I do think music in mainstream like always isn't really innovative for the reason I mentioned earlier though there's always musicians out there to lead the progress in music e.g. I think the Australian band king gizzard and the lizard wizard has done some of the most innovative music in ages. It's also important to keep in mind that music is art and art is a creative and skillful way of using medium of communication. Not all music has to be good. That's why skills are called skills because they take up your effort and they take your intelligence. I also think that this question in particular that "is music boring" is not a music theory related question but rather a philosophical one.
Ever heard of the 70s?
Can’t say King Gizzard does anything I haven’t already heard other sludgy prog bands do over the last 50 years. They also aren’t a mainstream act, but they probably could’ve been at a time, and that’s what’s sad. We don’t celebrate creativity enough these days. We celebrate aesthetics, politics, features, memes, and apparently beats for some reason instead, which leaves so many skilled and talented songwriters to be brushed under the rug for the next run of the mill person to come be bland as all hell. I’m not even 30 and I feel like a boomer because I want talent to overshadow all the other bs that people actually get famous and paid for.
There was a time when literally all mainstream music was innovative and new. The Beatles didn't sound like Pink Floyd didn't sound like The Rolling Stones didn't sound like The Who didn't sound like Led Zeppelin didn't sound like David Bowie didn't sound like Elton John didn't sound like Queen. It was a blank canvas and everyone went in different directions. Then the 80's happened and synth pop and hair metal were innovative. When that got old, grunge came in and that was pretty much it. Innovation was mostly dead. Not to say there weren't innovators, but there were very few- Alanis Morisette, Smashing Pumpkins, and Radiohead (who weren't popular for very long), or they couldn't do it in a "mainstream" way (Tool). I kind of agree with Rick in that record companies didn't want to take chances, but at the same time, look at what they had to work with. It's all been done before. So they just reduced it to formulaic lowest common denominator. And that's where we are today.
@@Galactus314 And you're sure that these were the only bands around in the 60s and 70s, and that there aren't plenty that were on the charts but we've forgotten about because they were bland, uninnovative, and samey?
@@oops6876 I actually kinda agree with your point. I also think that musical expression in music is dying fast because of lyrical expression which is not bad but not good as well. Both can coexist in a meaningful way.
This was great. I'm glad I watched it. I have a pretty dim view of modern pop music but I'm fully aware that what I hear is about .01% of what's out there. And what you said about history being judged on the songs with staying power is true. I can think of a lot of songs from the 70's and 80's that were hugely popular for a couple weeks and were GOD awful. The only big difference I'd like to put forth is that those older songs were (mostly) played by actual musicians. If you listen to Leif Garrett's "I was made for dancing," each verse is played a little differently and there is some organic "slop" in the timing. Billie Eilish's album, which I have heard and really liked, was made in a bedroom on a laptop, from what I hear. It's great that can be done now, but I definitely prefer the idea of actual musicians performing something that exists in the real world and recording it.
I think it's worth asking: what is an "actual musician?"
People who say today’s music is boring have clearly never heard of video games
I do like RB, but man he can get “old man yells at clouds”-y sometimes.
I said that same thing about him yesterday, haha!
Give it a decade or two… it starts happening all in its own.
@@colinwallace5286 I'm almost as old as he is. And I used to think just like him. I was wrong. And so is he.
yes and his what makes this song great series is great
He would never yell at Clouds.It's a great Joni album !
"If you're not personally Bryan Adams, there is a good chance this is the first time you've heard it." I was already feeling old when you pointed out that 30 years ago was 1991 but this... Okay, I'll forgive you since I *am* old, but jeez...
im 35 and remember this hit song. Im not old. 35 is not old. 35 is the age you are before you are old and after you are young. you just exist.
I'm born in '93 and I've heard this song many, many times. I agree with his sentiment that time filters out the bad stuff but this was a particularly bad example, since I expect many people remember this song.
@@Halliday7895 also just existing and dreading the experience.
I'm 21 and really enjoy that song, it also really catches my ear more then newer but similar songs
@@helgijonsson3537 same age. I know the lyrics by heart even though I never tried to learn the song.
Good talk. I'm a big fan of Rick Beato's channel, but you exposed some weaknesses.
I'd love to see you guys talk about this. I don't think he's unreasonable, but for sure there could be some old-think going on that you could break down.
At the same time I think you'd be surprised to discover he'd break up a few of your misconceptions.
Please make it happen!
Thank you !!! Confirming what I was JUST thinking about another live stream by Rick...and now I realize that this video here was done 2 YEARS ago...about the same thing...Rick is really just repeating this negative message over and over again...
“Unless you’re Bryan Adams” my friend, Canadian content laws would dictate that this song is heard alllllll the time north of the border. Definitely would not have pegged it as the #1, though!
There have been a lot of #1 that were crap over the years listen to Casey Kasem…😅😂🤣
holy shit I was wondering why the joke fell flat for me.
Fuckin crtc ahahaha
The Canadian Government has repeatedly apologised for Bryan Adams.
Real talk for a minute, though. Bryan Adams originally wrote the song for Joe Cocker. How different things would have been...
It's still played on soft rock radio all the time though. I hear the song at least 2 times a day at my job and have been since I was a kid.
It was number one in the UK for longer than any other song in history. 3 months solid or something.
Drawing Calvin while talking about 'the rules we made up" was perfection. Calvinball FTW!
I loved that was well.
I am 63 and I learned over 55 years ago you can find originality in anything in any decade. As for present day music there is lots of underground stuff that is the techno, DnB, Rave, Metal and Experimental music. As for the mainstream stuff I like Babylon from Lady Gaga and Dua Lipa Hallucinate.
I often reference the "sieve of time" when talking about music. There's always been terrible music, you just only chose to remember your favourites. What has changed though is the mediums that music is distributed through, so although the modern listener has to put in more effort to find music they like, their choices are endless as the internet is infinite.
Can confirm, that Bryan Adams song was everywhere.
Yes and it was not pleasant for me.
I can assure you as someone around at that time....it was. And annoyingly so.
Even the title of the song makes me feel dumber.
thanks for letting us know that you are old
@@brankol.4563 You're welcome, thanks for letting us know you're young and immature. Good luck with your front line career at KFC.
I don't have any issue with this video but the fact you insinuated that people won't know Everything I Do is insane
Right? That song is still everywhere
Well, I'd never heard of that song before this video, so I think we're already just about there
@@leirbag75 that's just crazy to me, I wonder if its a regional thing because I'm from the UK and everyone I know would know that song I'm sure
I'm 21 (I know I'm well outside of that era when it was huge) but not once in my life have I ever heard of this song
@@gwkonyoutube I'm 22 bro and I've heard it a million times lol
6:13 , what song is that?
Coming here to keep from exploding after Rick Beato put out a video about Gen Z doesn’t care about music.
Of course. I can't believe he keeps making them, and they get him a ton of views too! I think he know's they get a lot of attention so he does them
"Wikipedia has Billboard Charts from 1946, go back and see how many you recognize"
All the Fallout players: Challenge accepted
Whenever I start to fall into the nostalgia trap of 'older music is more complex,' I remember that Wild Wild West by Will Smith hit the top of the top 100 and I humble myself.
In all fairness though, it was a stevie wonder sample lol
Yeah, but you can’t compare most modern music to The Greatest Song Of All Time
Older music - Wild Wild West
Newer music - Wow Wow
Checkmate boomers
@@Chris-mc2dt Wow Wow is unironically so much better tho
A lot of the top chart songs have always been shit
...are shit
...will always be shit
Over time they get forgotten, and the 'real' music remains. I admit that I struggle to see much 'real' music in what's out today - but that's cus I'm not paying the same attention I used to... I guess
I remember hearing that Bryan Adams song from back then, but crucially, I also remember not wanting to hear it and not wanting to remember it. Feel the same way today about a lot of heavy rotation modern music that I'm subjected to in public spaces. Doesn't mean good music isn't being made anymore, but man, the bad stuff gets lots of airplay still.