Many in this comment section are upset by us bringing the Norwegian prison system into the discussion of CECOT. We cut that part from the video. We definitely did not manage to bring our point across here and failed to mention important context. We are not comparing the economic or social situations of Norway and El Salvador, trying to argue El Salvador should "just do it like this much richer country with way less crime on the other side of the world". We brought up Norway for its much celebrated approach to prioritise reintegration into society, which is proven to drastically lower recidivism rates, which in turn benefits society. Now especially CECOT currently has no reintegration plans whatsoever - the starkest contrast imaginable. And this total lack of reintegration plans is questionable, we stand by that point - especially keeping in mind mass trials of up to 900 people, likely a high percentage of prisoners being wrongfully convicted, the police having to meet arrest quotas, etc. Nonetheless, bringing up Norway as a "positive example" this way did not help make this case and we apologize. We hope this blunder won't overshadow the other important questions this topic raises. What is happening to El Salvador's democracy? Is that a potential price worth paying? We are curious to hear your opinions.
I think the issue wasn’t bringing up Norway as a positive example weren’t wrong. Its just that in Norway living an ordinary life is a lot better than going to their prisons, and that point was only brought up in El Salvador, since their ordinary lifes are hellholes. If every country’s government was like Norway, we would have these prisons everywhere. But due to the ignorance of the government and the corruption of politics, reaching that point is really hard.
Beyond just that as someone who doesn't know much about fern, this video came across as extremely biased and emotionally motivated to me. Especially the way that "Juan" was portrayed came off as emotional manipulation to make people agree with you. Appealing to emotions in this way feels dirty.
But you also didn’t comment on the brutality of MS-13 and the horrors they unleashed on the civilians and innocent citizens like mass rapes and beheadings. Video was very one-sided.
This does not address in any way the entire other side of the issue at hand. Being what is assume to be a journalistic piece, why was only the side you disagree with brought up? Do go and also tell us what the gangs did on a daily basis, how many people killed per day/month compared to the quotas set, to the conviction and incarceration rates? And please tell us in graphic detail exactly what these gangs did to innocent victims? The Norway comparison not withstanding, this was still an incredibly and seemingly deliberately one sided story designed to convince the audience that the issue is democracy vs no democracy. Biased storytelling is exactly what embodies everything wrong with journalism today, and it’s deeply disturbing to see it used on a subject like this, where a country’s democratically chosen leader, “by the people” is executing the will of the people “for the people” while some dude in a reclinable chair comes in and tries to nudge the audience on what is right and wrong, with the same kind of arrogance of thinking that “we know better than these barbarians” rooted behind colonialism and imperialism.
@@Semispace There is no politics without emotions. And contrary to what people may realize, the comments under the video don't seem to be based on "facts and logic" either. Quite a lot of emotional insults here. Everything has already been said above about the different situations of the countries. But if someone writes: "They're just another breed of criminals." Well, then I get emotional, because that disgusts me. The way people are talked about here is undignified. PS to the commentator above me: If you want pro-information, go to the government websites. Anyone who thinks journalism is just presenting both sides doesn't understand journalism. And throwing around imperialism and colonialism? Mein Gott, that's maybe a bit too much.
You are buying into gang mentality if you think that they are some kind of different humans. I'm sure most gang members just ended up in that situation based on their environment
Isn't it? Last I knew, Norway wasn't having a gang problem so large it required its own facility. I'm also certain, from their published statistics, that if a Norwegian robs you, they're FAR less likely to kill you.
To be honest this woman is giving too much credit to gang members. Some people will not change and do not want to change. I think having a specialist from the country would be better. The culture and opportunities in Norway and El Salvador are very different. You cannot just say "this worked in Norway therefore .....it should be applied in El Salvador" Bukele is a needed transition for that country
I work with an el Salvadoran who’s mother and father are still back home and their words are they’re very happy with the change. His father is a taxi driver and for the first time in 20 years has not had to pay extortion money to the local gangs, mother who runs a food stall the same, even better they’re both the busiest they’ve been in as long as they can remember. Tourist are back in El Salvador because it’s safer, law abiding citizens are happier as a result.
As a salvi American who has visited when it was peak gang violence, and after, I can tell you that it has changed soooo much, people can now wonder the streets without any worries in the world and also not have to worry about the gangs coming in into their neighborhood asking for ransom and death threats. Bukele has done an excellent job the People were tired of the violence
If every third person in that prison is innocent and 2% of the adult population is in there - let’s just say by far most are males. That leaves you a 1 in 150 chance you’ll be forever locked up with hordes of violent criminals, even if you’re completely innocent. That’s insane and your worries about street violence is now switched to anxiety of falsely ending up in prison.
@@ryanschubert368 everyone has an opinion.. except that 1 in 3 innocent guy sitting in Cecot. Im SUPER happy that it aint ME.. I hope you are never in that situation either.
@@WreckedRectummost people frankly see it as a sacrifice for the greater good in thay country due to how fucking rampant crime was there. Couldn't even walk outside.
1 thing to note 11:45. This is Norway we’re talking about. Its crime was low even before it started these policies. But El Salvador literally had enough gangsters to make armies. Norway is rich, and it only has to accommodate like a few thousand prisoners at most
This is kind of the point. Norway's society makes it really easy for people to stay on the right side of the law. That is partly because of wealth distribution, social norms, good opportunities, and effective law enforcement.
He also can’t compare the criminals from Norway to those in Latin America; I don’t recall armed commandos gunning down people in Norway or dismembering people to be put in bags by the dozens like in Mexico. His comparison is downright absurd.
@@Ludix147 you can’t compare Norway’s economic history and El Salvador’s; Norway has a longer history and it wasn’t beyond violent crime in the past; needs to be fixed before. You can’t reason with some people like in your dream world.
As a Latin American myself, El Salvador was known to be incredibly dangerous - it was well known that due to corruption, the gangs were running the country AND prisons. Corruption in Latin America is the biggest problem. This is a last resort - the amount of innocent people murdered in the country was shocking. As Bukele said, El Salvador had already taken the advice of the Americas but their ideas to reform the country have never worked. So he stopped listening to them. El Salvador does not tell the US what to do, so why the US feels the need to involve themselves is beyond me. They have their own things to worry about - like healthcare and homelessness. It also seems strange that westerners with zero experience with south american culture believe they have the answers... We only discuss the rights of the prisoners, but what about the victims and their families? This video doesn't seem to fairly discuss the true horrors experienced by El Salvadorians. But then again, this is only my opinion.
I think the message is less "el salvadors actions are wrong no matter how you look at it" and more of an indormational overview. How trying to extinguish that fire this way might light it up more then ever before in the future. How having blind trust in the president might backfire, and how el salvador has to build for the future now.
The video is about the prison situation, and he doesn't represent the US govt but rather sharing human right concern that interests him. Ending the gang violence is great but how to do is the question, by locking up anyone who looks like a gang? That is not the justice system and long term sustainable solution.
@@donvitopatata Maybe so, and I appreciate your perspective. Although, they have already tried to do it like America. The previous prisons that western countries would like did absolutely nothing so I don't blame Bukele for doing this. Although, I do agree that blindly following a president is silly, and by no means do i endorse that. But I have to say that El Salvador had already made multiple attempts before having to settle for this mega-prison. Also notably, this isn't a 1st world country with millions to throw away in rehab. This is a poor country with psychopathic criminals. They are not able to house AND rehabilitate like the country this video referenced (Norway I think?). One major issue is the 20 arrests a day - that is atrocious.
They should have talked to scholar from El Salvador or at least Latin America because no matter how many qualifications that Australian lady has, she speaks from a place of privilege and won't understand some nuances or lived experience
@@m77mohamed40 That's understandable and I somewhat agree with what you are saying. I mentioned in another reply that the way they are 'picking criminals' randomly is atrocious. But my point is that the mega-prison is needed, and I 100% believe that the method of arrests needs to change. I also believe that the (real) El Salvadorian serial killers aren't a priority in terms of human rights - they took the same rights away from the innocent people. However, the reason I bring up the US is because everything being recommended by those commenting has already been recommended by the US, then attempted in El Salvador, and it didn't work. I think a common misconception is that El Salvador didn't try everything they could until they had to settle for this, the country is poor, so I find it hard to criticise the lack of investment into 'rehab'.
Funny how Ashley Batastini discusses the horrors of CECOT and its treatment of the inmates inside the safety of her secure home and thousands of miles away from the violence.
@@danchisholm1 she's definitely allowed to, but that's gonna affect how others view her report because she is removed from the unsafe ones and reporting from an outside perspective, lacking the experience of being in an unsafe society
@danchisholm1 I agree, I'm sick of Americans and their advice. They gave so much human rights that homosexuals and pedophiles have more rights than normal people.
@@NyanyiCI lived in El Salvador for 10 years and it was hell. Literally constantly living in fear and losing loved people to the gangs. Bukele actually made the country great
@@NiloNova yeah, theres lots of people like you who are more concerned with retribution than rehabilitation, and who think that human rights can be stripped from anyone you disagree with.
oh yeah rehabilitating an entire chain of gangs that go up to 50k people as a third world country is definetely something comperable to one of the richest nations in the world rehabilitating a much smaller amount of criminals that dont come from organised gangs.Solid take mate.
@@a.wadderphiltyr1559 Look at it this way, if you’re guaranteed to live in hell no matter what crime you commit, why not commit every crime once you’ve committed one. In for a penny in for a mile.
@@aturchomicz821 Yes the innocent prisoners are a pity. But you have to be del*sional to think that a second world country has the resources to make an effective rehabilitation system for 2% of its population and that most of the gangsters are open to be rehabilitated. I guess this dumbness is expected from someone who says"Typical (Insert hated wing) Wing L"
As a Salvadoran American, they didn't accidentally give up democracy they willingly did so. Most people in El Salvador, are so tired they don't mind that these people lose human rights as long as people feel safe Many of these members would extort businesses and people, force marriages, rape, murder, and are responsible for many other crimes and disgusting and atrocious acts against innocents. People got tired of living in fear. Bukele, is an authoritarian, let's get that straight, but he's not looking to rule with an iron fist, he could've easily done so with constitutional changes since no one can stop him, but he choose not to, he's more interested in stabilizing the country.
Of course there are good dictators, authoritarian rule with the right person can be a great thing. The problem is that you can't trust them to always be like that 30 years from now.
El Salvador doesnt have the resources and also has too high of a crime rate to not handle this in a extreme manner. Without extreme actions their country wouldve only gone down worse.
@brigit.the.seagoat el Salvador had one of the highest murder + r*pe rates in the world and was bassicly ruled over by gangs. If you take a mild approach it'll just continue. Just look at the rest of south america. Gangs are terrorising these nations for decades.
@@brigit.the.seagoat Well as for the resources you can look at GDP and for crime rate, thats already in this video. As for what could happen without this look at Mexico, Haiti, or Columbia in the 80s. Hopefully this can be used as a launch pad to actually imorve the country for a place of peace but we will have to see.
@@gothicusmaximus5697 Let's hope Bukele actually changes the country. He can imprison as many people as he wants, but the root problems of why those people joined gangs in the first place will still exist. That's what needs fixing.
yeah very out of touch, they are different in every way imaginable. Attempting Norways model in El Salvador would turn into a huge pile of steaming shit
I was really impressed with your channel and even shared it with my wife tonight. However, after hearing your perspective on Bukele, my opinion has shifted. My family is from Mexico, and while I’ve grown up with the benefits of first-world amenities, I can’t help but admire what Bukele has done with MS-13. I wish the Mexican government would take a similar approach with the cartels. It’s easy to criticize another country's methods from the comfort of a first-world democracy. But how can a country address the root problems when its population is terrorized by criminals? Bukele has done something remarkable for El Salvador, and I wish Mexico would follow suit so it can truly begin to flourish.
Mexico already tried what Bukele did in 2008 and it failed spectacularly, murders rose in an unprecedented way and at the end the cartels were still there, turns out you couldnt compare gangs with machetes to professionally trained cartels. Also Fern didnt say that El salvador shouldnt imprison the gang members, they criticized the lack of press freedoms, the horrible conditions at the prison, the ammount of possible innocents, the indiscriminate arrests, quotas, etc. What happens when they all get released in 15 years? What happens when Bukele exits the presidency? Or what if he doesnt? Being desperate for a solution shouldnt make you adverse to its criticisms.
This is not a solution that is replicable to cartels. Maras are gangs, cartels are businesses, organized crime, terrorist organizations, drug smugglers, kidnappers, paramilitary organizations, and politicians, all at once. Maras are child’s play compared to cartels. This is why this solution will never work in Mexico.
Im American and so far I love this Bukele dude. Channel owner seems to have an agenda of virtue signaling about freedom of press. Typical american mentality to grandstand from safety in the usa.
Defending a quota of arrests by police and mass trials is actual insanity dont matter how you put it, thousands of innocent people are forced to live in inhumans conditions, the video explains it very well you're just blinded by rage and lack any nuance on the topic.
@@diogostw7286 They never specifically addressed those. The original commenter could be talking about the shade thrown on him like overthrowing the constitution, becoming a dictator, storming the vote, whatever.
They're still all humans that just want to prosper. Having good opportunities is how you achieve that, as can be seen in a place like Norway where it's really hard to not have those opportunities in life. That approach will always be better than changing your country into an autocratic and fascist police state that doesn't grant anyone basic human rights when they're suspected of something whilst not even found guilty yet. The cops don't even have to pretend to have a reason for throwing random people in jail, not to mention the people killed by guards and police being thrown into mass graves without anyone knowing they died. That's some scary shit to live under.
Is it tho? “Crime” is kinda of a made up thing, just like laws or money. They all serve the capital owner’s intrests under capitalism. People in need are never the issue, but the system that forces such conditions upon them.
@@azpont7275 you know even if you make the conditions they live in better, the ones who are already part of the gangs wont budge, its like Ive already killed someone, society wont accept me anyway, so why dont I just try my best to become a respectable gang member earning as much money as possible and earning myself a "veteran" status after my mid 50s. Thats their mentality. The conditions they were in were and pretty much still are so bad, it is insanely difficult to rehabilate, you could maybe change the way the 15-20 Year olds think. And another thing pretty much everyone who has a tattoo in that prison already killed, or atleast helped killing someone or even multiple people
i love your videos but as a Salvadorian myself i feel like you really needed to experience all the gang violence and the fear of hearing shots ring all night to properly make this assumption about Bukele some may say he's corrupt but so was our last president but all he did was stuff his pants full of money at least Bukele is trying to make change for the citizens even if he has to bends so rule to stay in power .
Bending the rules is always how it starts. But hey, if you want a leader who doesn't care about the rules, just remember this 5 years from now. Remember that you asked for this. You wanted this. This was your choice, and you chose this.
@@kezia8027 oh shut it already kezia, calling a democratically elected leader a dictator is absurd. Have you once in your lifetime visited el salvador? have you ever had to deal with gangs who hold government workers hostage? have you ever had to lick some gangstas feet to survive your miserable life? the very liberalism you try to force upon people was the reason why governments of south america didnt stopped gangs before the were the threat they once inposed. Youre just an imperialist who tries to shit someone who makes his country a good place. just like how many call tito or ataturk a dictator which is true they were dictators but their dictatorship wasnt harmful to their people on the contrary they are loved by the people they rule upon.
@@Sunflower-ug3eh youre forgetting this is a country where your options are corruption and risk of being murdered daily or corruption and safety. you say wait 5 years... till what? That type of warning is what you say to a western country because it might end up like el salvador... you gotta triage your priorities in society and staying alive to see the next day is the most important, what the hell is the point of a government thats not corrupt if they cant even protect citizens, these arent problems we have faced in recent history in the west so youre only seeing it through your perspective, this is litearlly the nuclear option because no other long term progress could be made until this problem was dealt with,. It shows you how desperate people are when corruption sounds like a picnic in the park, such arrogance to think you know what its like to be put in that situation. its literal life and death.
As a westerner this is what I was assuming so thanks for clarification. Fern made it seem like the changes bukele made were stripping the country of its democracy and going to be a dictatorship. I fully understand that there was a strong chance if he wasn’t reelected during all of this and someone corrupt was elected instead it would all be for nothing. Extreme situations need extreme action.
@@Sunflower-ug3eh Ah yes, let’s get rid of bukele and let the gangs run free again, is that what you suggest? If you think corruption isnt a problem in EVERY country then idk what to tell you.
Yeah it's easy to judge El Salvador from a relatively wealthy and safe country. It's clearly a complicated situation anyone outside of El Salvador can't fully grasp.
Yes that is the idea of rehabilitation. The current kind of draconian system just ensures that criminals will stay criminal even when released which will eventually lead to them returning to prison.
Another story for you, Juan parents got killed in front of his eyes when 9, and got caught in a Crossfire during a gangs vendetta in the middle of a street. That was Salvador before.
@@shakiMiki Does it really seem that way to you? 10s of thousands of gang members and affiliates are imprisoned indefinitely right now with no trial. They must be the world's dumbest gang leaders to negotiate a deal like that.
Yeah. I don't want to visit a dictatorship. I have tattoos, so I would get arrest. (Anyone with tattoos get incarcerated without due process. They automatically think you are in a gang if you have any kind of tattoo.)
I've watched all of your videos and enjoyed them all. I think this video is an exception. Would've been informative to hear what academics in El Savador think instead of people from Norway or Australia
if you think you're going to get a fair and balanced opinion from someone WITHIN an el salvadoran prison then your ignorance is so great that even THIS video probably went over your head.
Whatever academics were in charge before Bukele did a pretty good job based on the statistics. Before Bukele was elected the murder rate was dropped from 107 to 38 per 100k... Bukele only lowered it by 20...
I´m Mexican, and we suffer from a similar situation than the one in El Salvador (if not worse). It is extremely triggering when apparently it causes more indignation the way prisoners (most of them kill in the most sadistic way) are treated than the assasinations of innocent civilians. Of course Norway has a different method, because Norway does NOT have the same problems. I would have loved if you talked more about the sadistic "logisctics" of the narcos, rather than taking a soft approach on the criminals so people can undestand why that method of encarceration is very popular.
I was thinking the same thing. What El Salvadore is doing is wrong, but so is letting it continue to happen to innocents in Mexico. Both solutions are immoral. I am just glad I do not have to be the one to choose.
Being Brazilian, it is completely relatable the problems and possible solutions that are brought up and mentioned in this video. Gang violence is something that pretty much anyone from Latin America can relate to and not being able to have full peace because of the insane crime rates that exist. As much as I agree that a lot of times people that seem to overlook or not consider those realities as much (usually from safer countries), the main root is still one: how did things get the way they were? Mass incarceration is probably the only short-term solution that El Salvador had, but just watch the patterns Bukele is showing to historical dictatorships should be of major concern to El Salvadorians. Reminding the main point (especially those who easily miss, or can relate): being able to walk around with little to no anxieties in your historically neighborhood is a feeling that is hard to describe. And honestly, a huge act of patriotism to any government that can achieve that. But the point that was loosely brought up in the video but not drilled as much and as I mentioned before: what is the root cause? If any country that gets out of a situation like El Salvador is not able to maintain its Democracy, economy improving (horizontally and vertically) is probably naive to think your country will thrive. I hope all of us from Latin America are able to see our countries get out of its situations right now, and I hate when Europeans and Americans think they have a simple or accurate view on the topic, but if there's one thing that cannot fall is our Democracy. Without that, what exactly are we fighting for really?
Wasn't the "1/3 people arrested were innocent" a number that was unconfirmed and came out of nowhere? I swear i remember them basing this out of nothing
@@willgoogletakethisname3963 right? How brainwashed do you have to be to post something like this? Just so you know, it's actually 3/3 of those arrested were innocent, I remember that the 1/3 was unconfirmed. I swear I remember that @PerfectZeroMusic_ has literally no idea what he's talking about. You can trust me! I swear I remember this!
unfrotunately all the data sounds wishy washy, so perhaps unless youre actually living in el salvador, you have no clear picture of what's been going on, how progress has been
at minute 1:36 you say he joined a gang and you skipped to him being taken to prison, what happens in between those two events is quite important, you cannot just skip it!
That doesn’t mean that the downside of measures like these shouldn’t be discussed. Because even though everyone may immediately see a reduction in crime and think all is well, there is a hidden long-term cost to ‘temporarily’ or partially abandoning human rights. That is of course not to say nothing should be done.
Short term band aids will hide a long term catastrophe. Either way, they are screwed. They’re just delaying the inevitable. In 15 years they will be released and more unscrewed than ever.
I just weird because, yes the system is failing and innocent people are jailed, but whats the alternative? Before this 3 times the amount of innocent people died, being collateral in the blood path of the gangs. These innocent people are at least alive, yes imprisoned but alive.
I think the message of the video is more of a "it works, but for what cost.... and how long". Innocent collaterals, bigger breeding grounds for future crime, a leadershp that grows more and more authoritan. On the surface, yes less people die, and dangerous ones are locked away, but that is just the present and only a part of the whole picture. Also, as an innocent guy in that situation it just takes some time till you would wish to be dead. Maybe you are a lucky one, when the guard snaps and proceeds to beat you way harder than usual. Way too hard to survive
I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life innocently imprisoned in a place filled with violence tbh… Yes, preventing the death of 3x as many peope is a very very valid point, but still, life is over for the ones innocent inside this ishthole, they go through living hell day by day by day…
The alternative is build up the country. Gangs mainly form because people with no perspective band together to somehow make a living. So, by the high poverty, help people find work and send kids to school, you prevent them from ever falling to the gangs. Punishing people for being part of a gang can only work if there is another path they can take after all. And this is not just theory. Many countries have used this approach to decrease crime rates and substance abuse among which are Island, Portugal and Italy. Though granted, they didn't have it as bad as here. Still, fighting crimes with guns, prisons and violence has historically almost never worked to lead a country to peace and wealth. The USA has fought tooth and nails against drugs and the smuggling cartels for decades and they are no closer to winning than when they started. Same for most other South American countries and none of them seem to be winning so far.
@@lubue5795 you're absolutely right, a solid economy, perspective and education is the only long term solution for this. So how would a nation, ruled and strangled by gangs and organized criminals, gain wealth, security and education, if the gangs see this as an active threat to their existence and will literally not stop at anything to keep their stranglehold
I feel like this video is mostly targeted at painting the president of El Salvador as a monster that has taken away democracy. While in reality, people have probably never been happier, the 92% vote for him is the argument for that. I fully support Bukele
I like you Fern, I really like you. This video has been a complete miss. These prisoners made the country utter chaos. It's like if someone with a good, yet strong will took over Haiti today (a country you literally cannot visit), arrested all the gang members and made the country somewhat livable again, then you attack that leader for dealing with the problem the only way it could be dealt with. Think about the families these guys ruined too. Bruh
Arresting the gang members without a form of long-term justice would be an insult to the families of the ones unlucky enough to be part of the gangs in the first place. Justice doesn't have to purely be punitive.
As stated in the video, the murder rate was going down anyway, there is NO EVIDENCE that his policy worked. Putting people in concentration camps and torturing them is not a solution...
@@trancerobot I agree innocents/every prisoner should be given a fair trial one more time. But I don't think el Salvador model is wrong. They tried to follow what west said for YEARS, what happened? Nothing. Now after bukele el Salvador has become safe. Atleast for the next decade. Western values western rules can't be imposed everywhere. You can't enforce values and rules you have in country say switzerland in a country like Afghanistan! Some people never change.
@@rohithkumarbandari ah yes give 5 star rooms and shit like Norway? Prisons are for people to suffer for their crimes and relaise their crimes. Amnesty and others can fü€k themselves. They only care about dragging developing countries back down. They don't care about Hamas killing the Jews, IDF killing Palestinians, never did they care when US invaded Vietnam or Iraq. Wake tf up
Human rights are never easy. Discussion about them may be uncomfortable in difficult times, but that is when such discussions are most necessary. It should be clear that these safety measures always come at a (non-pecuniary) cost and videos like this one point out those costs.
Being Salvadoreño it’s really hard to sympathize with Maras bro. I get it sucks that innocents and youngsters pushed in that life are casualty but the amount of terrorism they do makes me lose all care for them. That burning bus shit is so common it’s really fucked.
Decades ago, my aunt's family had to flee the purges in El Salvador. If you were educated, too influential, or in any way perceived as a possible alternative to the regime; they wanted you dead. Her dad was just a college professor, but they put him on a hit list. So, I'm not surprised that this is where the country is at, from a social or demographic standpoint. Previous administrations made all the high-earning middle-class, academics, and pro-democracy citizens fear for their lives, and most of them left. The country is now mostly full of the grandchildren of people who either didn't want to leave, or couldn't, and mass-scale incarceration and death already have a precedent there.
In Romania, we had this guy called Vlad Țepeș, also known as the famous "Dracula". He acted with an iron fist. Crime dropped massively during his reign. There is a saying that we have here: "You could leave a bag with gold on the ground and nobody would steal it". Vlad Țepeș used public impalement as an execution method.
I think it’s fitting that El Salvador treats them like animals after they stole the lives of countless people and treated others as nothing but dogs. It sends a powerful message to criminals that they’re not gonna be happy in prison. You PAY for your crimes
@@EpicuriousGeorgedid you miss out the part where he said el salvador's gang violence and homicide rates was highest in the world? He had no other choice. You can't implement a EU or western style rules in a shitty country. That man is trying to improve his country.
I want to tell a bit of cruel imprisonment, in Thailand, so many people are jailed for defamation of the royals, some sentenced up to 40 years for it, even a mother with 2 years old toddler was jailed, having to give up her child to someone else on the child's birtday just for sharing a social media post. It's beyond cruel I can't get it off my head. I can't imagine, being 2 years old, life is going as normal, when suddenly your mother is gone for reason you don't understand, and even with regular visits, it would even be more cruel, you just don't understand why mom is not coming with you, and why you can't get in there. Thai law on the royal is just insane. There was high profile serial murder case where the perpetrator is a mother as well, she got suspense sentence until the child is 3 years old, but somehow, when it's about the royal, the court doesn't care.
Well she knew the sentences on that act in Thailand, so you think she doesnt had a role in her own faith? Its the prime example of fuck around and find out
@@MJ-lh7tlyeah I'd sure love to live in fear of any social media post landing me in prison and idiots like you saying it's just your own responsibility to comply with government censors. I don't know about you but I'm glad to live in a country where free expression is valued as a right.
The comparison doesn’t work here where gangs are so malicious they can request any wannabe to murder someone just to prove a point. Now imagine a 2 year old child not having his parents because their parents angered a cartel. I understand the loss of democracy here but you cannot realistically think you are going to make a big impact by making these scary crime organizations that murder and rape go to therapy or by taking ages to trial someone and end up like Mexico where corrupt judges let murders run free.
Omg she is so insufferable. She provided zero solutions. None. The solution is lock em up and let them think about their life choices for the next 50 years, if they're...lucky? Btw, the guards don't fill that grave. The prisoners do. You sound like the type of person to give someone who chopped someone's head off a sentence of 5 years and rehab. They don't deserve such nice conditions.
Many of them are quite literally random people picked up off the streets. This country will get 10 times worse over the next couple of decades, just letting you know, this is Soviet tactics.
That won't actually fix them, though, if the plan is to release them after said 50 years. Rehabilitation isn't necessarily because the prisoners deserve to be treated like so.
I love how your character Juan is said to be on a transport with "suspected" gang members the sentence after you admit he's not merely a "suspect" but an actual member of an extremely violent gang. If even your concocted fictional example character legitimately deserves to be in jail then maybe you should rethink your position.
He also alluded to that once Juan gets out, he's going to have no job, no training, and no skills so he would have no choice but rejoin the gang and perpetuate the cycle
You cannot tell me that the best time to mention your sponsor was directly after saying these people (including innocents) are put in brutal conditions and when killed in said conditions are buried in mass graves...
As someone from the West, it's completely unthinkable that you could just elect someone and that they would actually solve problems and make everything better, not worse. I guarantee that if such a thing happened here, no one could care less about some sheltered journalist calling those measures "undemocratic".
10:11 does she really not think that they have had a trash behavior BEFORE being in prison? Does burning a bus with innocent people seem like trash behavior already? I feel like if you behave like trash you get treated like trash and that exactly whats happening there
7:45 - I love the effort that you put into the "Zoom" UI. There are a few mistakes here and there but it does look pretty good. Proves how much you pay attention to the details.
Sorry, but calling the most evil prison and trying to gain sympathy for those monsters is the problem. You have never seen a child of only 6 years old with a burned scar in the face. Done by the gangs. As a Latin American I have seen it. Until you see in person the horrors, you will understand that there was no other option.
@@Theinatoriinatornah the people of that country simply see the arrests of innocents as a sacrifice for the greater good. That's how fucked the criminal situation is there. It goes to show that the rest of the world has no fucking idea how bad it is to the point that the public sees this extreme action as a good thing. The politician didn't even manipulate anybody because the public already hates the criminals
So, you’re telling me while I’m watching this from the peace of home, they’re people currently living in these conditions? It’s the little things we should be grateful for..
If you're on fire the long term is not a priority, these gangs have set the country on fire, once the bulk of the valance is quelled then long-term solutions should be implemented, even if the US hasn't concord the prevention and rehabilitation. False arrests are a failure of any criminal justice system, but I do believe that in this case it can somewhat be warranted. Changing the construction to keep yourself in power is not a good idea under almost any circumstances and is a huge red flag
you people disgust me. You want to pretend you care about law or rights, that somehow changing the constitution worries you, but the stripping of OTHER people's rights is fine because you view them as evil. You disgust me. How people like you can justify locking up 15 year olds in these literally inhumane conditions is depraved and immoral and only serves to perpetuate the violence. Congratulations, you're just as evil as those you condemn.
People who share the opinion of the creators of this video have a strong Western bias, where they assume that there's some sort of justice system to fix everything. There isn't. There aren't the resources, and they're dealing with terrorists that have cash, guns, and buy off politicians and cops on the daily. During the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus, which meant that anyone could be detained without trial if they disrupted peace. Without it, can you imagine how the legal system would have possibly operated to prosecute the Confederate soldiers and protestors who were in favor of slavery? Unfortunately, in times of crisis, the rights of the innocent will be trampled, but what is the alternative? To allow slavery and terrorism to thrive to keep a moral high ground? There is no morally correct choice, as either way innocents will suffer, but there is a practical choice which reduces the amount of suffering of innocent people as possible. If there was no crisis, this would be an entirely different issue.
I'm reminded of the short story *The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas.* Its about a Utopian city whose grandeur is upheld by the suffering of a young child who's perpetually tormented beneath the city. Everyone is made aware of the child once they come of age, and the vast majority of people are content to let the child suffer to maintain the peace and prosperity of their city.
Why are people trying to rehabilitate individuals who have spent the vast majority of their life being gang members? Their instincts and habits have been formed and hardened into their brain wiring. There’s no changing these rats. Also, there doesn’t need to be a gameplan for reintegration. Didn’t you say that most of these prisoners will never leave the prison for the rest of their lives?
For an extreme situation like El Salvador was on, you need extreme mesures, even if cruel and unfair, otherwise nothing would change. It's sad but it is what it is.
All governments are gangs, insofar as they’re an organisation that uses violence. This isn’t a new revelation. Most people actually want their government to be a ruthless gang that protects them, acts in their interests, keeps order and lays the groundwork for prosperity.
I can relate this to my country Nigeria... at the moment we face so much corruption but we have never taking the extreme road to fix it and the country is still in massive decline I'm not supporting el Salvador but i understand their struggle very much this can also be seen as a trolley problem "for every one innocent person detained five other innocent people are saved " Most of the times countries can't afford the best options nd that's what western media doesn't understand
Hello from a Serb my African brother. Be wary of these biased videos as my country has suffered greatly from the youth taking such information as gospel. All the best
murder rate dropped 95 percent in a few years. that alone will get you reelected. people FEEL safer now and they love that. it's a base desire ib Maslow's hierarchy of needs
The adjectives "weak people" and "cowards" are intended to stir up an emotional response. What some may call the logical fallacy of "Appeal to emotion."
My Salvadorian brothers have suffered enough. They have spoken and this is what the majority of them want. These criminals have terrorized the Salvadorian public for decades. Sometimes, extreme measures are needed to solve extreme problems…
Thank you for making this video. You are guaranteed to face stiff opposition on this, even if you handle every subject matter with perfect grace. It takes real heart to make a dissenting video on something so popular. Another great video on Bukele is the one from Wendover Productions.
Why are first world country people complaining about shit they no nothing of. Dictator or not, the country is much safer. Stop crying for people who have no heart or sympathy for the community.
i think hes done a great job. especially given the country, circumstances and situation he inherited. perfect? no, but way better than most people would have done. in this age of rulers handing out false promises to get into office and never delivering, it is so satisfying to see violent crime drop from rank 1 in the world to one of the lowest LOL. its important to discuss tyranny and false imprisonment yeah, but fern give the guy some fucking credit where credit is due man, this man overdelivered.
My family is from El Salvador I just visited there for the first time, my dad was telling me that when he used to live here there was a civil war and so many gangs that he had a curfew at 6:00 and if he didn’t make it to his house by them he had to wave a white flag to show he wasn’t in the war and almost got shot multiple times.
Fern apparently doesn't want to lose El Salvador as a systemic friend of the west=democracies even if the country would otherwise sink into chaos. Great independent/in-depth/objective/fact-oriented/scientific contribution, high praise and my respect to the bros from simpli!
I think before all these gangsters were put in prison, the general public felt like they were in a prison ruled by gangs. The sympathy for these guys comes from people who have never had to feel that way about their society, in a way its a privileged perspective.
El Salvador is a perfect example to of the phrase “sacrifice one to save the Many” or how ever it goes. The good outweighs the bad, especially since El Salvador is ran by Gangs. Destabilize the Gangs first giving control back to the people then Figure out the rest later once there’s order. Comparing Norway is a huge leap in logic, that’s like Apples to oranges.
Comparing El Salvadorian prisoners to Norwegian prisoners is ridiculous. God bless you President Bukele for cleaning up your nation and making it a safer place for all.
I'm not against prisons... but this is beyond cruel. Yes, remove criminals from certain freedom and from society, but this is just inhumane. I'd rather die than be in a prison like that... And the thing that worries me even more is all those who innocent and in there. This whole thing sounds like a great idea from the outside, the results are visible... But no democracy on the planet can support this. It's a quick solution, with no guaranteed results at a very very high cost. This will come back to haunt El Salvador one day.
I mean I dont believe its cruel, the gang members had too much power. The crime rate was SUPER high, and People were dying left and right by the hands of criminals for absolute petty reasons. Getting people to not want to participate in crime because the punishment is now WAY harsher is the way to go. Yes, it's understandable the "1/3" people who may be deemed innocent but there's always going to be a collateral for cleaning up, crime has also dropped by 70% iirc. The citizens are absolutely okay with it too, his ratings are sky high so far, we'll just have to see what he has planned out in the future.
As a child of Salvadoran parents, this is a GREAT change , trust me , I have lost family myself to these maras (gangs). Bukele has done beautiful change to El Salvador, which has allowed my father to go back to visit my grandfather and our family.
If the punishment matches the crime, it's neither cruel nor ...evil. I guess everyone is a bleeding heart - until they see their loved ones knifed to death in front of them, only to steal a few dollars and a smartphone.
Or a slight disagreement everyone gets deleted. But let's talk about soft Norway and judge people living hell like conditions for hating their evil criminals.
Yes. This is correct. And people criticizing Bukele or the way this is being handle are clearly from a different continent or a different planet altogether. Gangs are nothing but cancer, you can't negotiate with cancer.
The Geneva Conventions only concern humanitarian treatment in times of war, it does not govern what a country does inside of it's own borders when not at war.
Not one Salvadorian is advocating for the prisoners human rights, but ofc foreigners from much richer countries come and complain and try to give a solution when they’ve never lived under a gang dominated society
L take fern. As a latin american, this video angered me, but also was funny, first because it felt like first world people dictating wtf we should do to reduce crime, then it almost felt like y’all were sorry for them, and that only come when you never had a robbery/theft a day nearby your house or when neither you nor your friends were mugged by these oh so sorry criminals and if you think these criminals are anything like the norwegian ones, try searching for the crimes of Champinha, or any organized crime for that matter, here in Brazil. You are better than this, Fern.
Of course lowering the recidivism rate is also a point of discussion to further improve society in El Salvador. However, with its economical and cultural contexts within the country, I think that clearing the streets of gangs and criminals is the first step in the right direction. Setting up arrest quotas could pose an issue with wrongful convictions of innocent citizens and proper background checks and other measures could be implemented to mitigate that, but considering the extent of the situation in the country where gang-related activities and crimes run rampant in the streets and local communities, I can see why heavy arrests need to be made to expedite the clearing process. Hopefully they can do proper vetting of the arrested inmates, especially ones that have no criminal record, to re-trial them and exonerate them accordingly. A budget would have to be set aside to fund prison systems to ensure they run appropriately.
Ive seen that Bukele is popular with El Salvadoreans, but he offers no durable strategy for the country's development. And as you point out, he actually cuts deals with the gangs regularly -- law and order much? The country needs a leader that will erode El Salvador's poverty, gender-based violence, and subordination to international capital -- not lock up young men en masse
His second term is focused on the economy he said in his speech. Investors will not touch el salvador with murders happening everyday. He had to clean it up.
What a privileged high horse take, extremely biased. To make a hit piece on a situation as nuanced as El Salvador's crime problem without addressing said nuances is crazy. Bukele single-handedly made El-Salvador go from GTA to actually being able to walk outside on the street at night. Rehabilitation for these criminals? MS-13? Yea right..some of these kids are recruited and indoctrinated young because there's no other other route but to join the gangs, there's no other options, so what are you gonna do? Rehabilitate them so they can just go back onto the street, and just re-join their gangs again, so they can kill again? A second chance for murderers and rapist when their victims, families and children murdered in cold blood didn't even have one? Don't make me laugh. 4:49 Maybe they should've thought about before they beheaded and flayed innocent children in the streets. Bukele said it himself: "If you don't like how im dealing with these prisoners how about I send them to you" easy to critique as an outsider. And judging by all these other comments you deserve the heat you got and will continue to get.
Many in this comment section are upset by us bringing the Norwegian prison system into the discussion of CECOT. We cut that part from the video. We definitely did not manage to bring our point across here and failed to mention important context. We are not comparing the economic or social situations of Norway and El Salvador, trying to argue El Salvador should "just do it like this much richer country with way less crime on the other side of the world". We brought up Norway for its much celebrated approach to prioritise reintegration into society, which is proven to drastically lower recidivism rates, which in turn benefits society. Now especially CECOT currently has no reintegration plans whatsoever - the starkest contrast imaginable. And this total lack of reintegration plans is questionable, we stand by that point - especially keeping in mind mass trials of up to 900 people, likely a high percentage of prisoners being wrongfully convicted, the police having to meet arrest quotas, etc.
Nonetheless, bringing up Norway as a "positive example" this way did not help make this case and we apologize. We hope this blunder won't overshadow the other important questions this topic raises. What is happening to El Salvador's democracy? Is that a potential price worth paying? We are curious to hear your opinions.
I think the issue wasn’t bringing up Norway as a positive example weren’t wrong. Its just that in Norway living an ordinary life is a lot better than going to their prisons, and that point was only brought up in El Salvador, since their ordinary lifes are hellholes. If every country’s government was like Norway, we would have these prisons everywhere. But due to the ignorance of the government and the corruption of politics, reaching that point is really hard.
Beyond just that as someone who doesn't know much about fern, this video came across as extremely biased and emotionally motivated to me.
Especially the way that "Juan" was portrayed came off as emotional manipulation to make people agree with you. Appealing to emotions in this way feels dirty.
But you also didn’t comment on the brutality of MS-13 and the horrors they unleashed on the civilians and innocent citizens like mass rapes and beheadings. Video was very one-sided.
This does not address in any way the entire other side of the issue at hand. Being what is assume to be a journalistic piece, why was only the side you disagree with brought up?
Do go and also tell us what the gangs did on a daily basis, how many people killed per day/month compared to the quotas set, to the conviction and incarceration rates? And please tell us in graphic detail exactly what these gangs did to innocent victims?
The Norway comparison not withstanding, this was still an incredibly and seemingly deliberately one sided story designed to convince the audience that the issue is democracy vs no democracy.
Biased storytelling is exactly what embodies everything wrong with journalism today, and it’s deeply disturbing to see it used on a subject like this, where a country’s democratically chosen leader, “by the people” is executing the will of the people “for the people” while some dude in a reclinable chair comes in and tries to nudge the audience on what is right and wrong, with the same kind of arrogance of thinking that “we know better than these barbarians” rooted behind colonialism and imperialism.
@@Semispace There is no politics without emotions. And contrary to what people may realize, the comments under the video don't seem to be based on "facts and logic" either. Quite a lot of emotional insults here.
Everything has already been said above about the different situations of the countries. But if someone writes: "They're just another breed of criminals." Well, then I get emotional, because that disgusts me.
The way people are talked about here is undignified.
PS to the commentator above me: If you want pro-information, go to the government websites. Anyone who thinks journalism is just presenting both sides doesn't understand journalism.
And throwing around imperialism and colonialism? Mein Gott, that's maybe a bit too much.
Comparing El-Savador criminals with Norwegian criminals is downright absurd
Right? If Norway had those murder rates and gang problems they wouldn't have their easy-life cells either.
You are buying into gang mentality if you think that they are some kind of different humans. I'm sure most gang members just ended up in that situation based on their environment
El-Salvador is like Salusa Secundus where the deadliest monsters are imprisoned. Norway is probably a kindergarten compared to what El Salvador was.
Isn't it?
Last I knew, Norway wasn't having a gang problem so large it required its own facility. I'm also certain, from their published statistics, that if a Norwegian robs you, they're FAR less likely to kill you.
To be honest this woman is giving too much credit to gang members. Some people will not change and do not want to change. I think having a specialist from the country would be better. The culture and opportunities in Norway and El Salvador are very different. You cannot just say "this worked in Norway therefore .....it should be applied in El Salvador" Bukele is a needed transition for that country
I work with an el Salvadoran who’s mother and father are still back home and their words are they’re very happy with the change. His father is a taxi driver and for the first time in 20 years has not had to pay extortion money to the local gangs, mother who runs a food stall the same, even better they’re both the busiest they’ve been in as long as they can remember. Tourist are back in El Salvador because it’s safer, law abiding citizens are happier as a result.
Hope they get falsely arrested.
@ what do you mean ?
@@randomone4832 outta poc😮
As a salvi American who has visited when it was peak gang violence, and after, I can tell you that it has changed soooo much, people can now wonder the streets without any worries in the world and also not have to worry about the gangs coming in into their neighborhood asking for ransom and death threats. Bukele has done an excellent job the People were tired of the violence
If every third person in that prison is innocent and 2% of the adult population is in there - let’s just say by far most are males. That leaves you a 1 in 150 chance you’ll be forever locked up with hordes of violent criminals, even if you’re completely innocent.
That’s insane and your worries about street violence is now switched to anxiety of falsely ending up in prison.
@@WreckedRectum 1 in 150 falsely imprisoned or 1 in 80 murdered in there lifetime
@@ryanschubert368 everyone has an opinion.. except that 1 in 3 innocent guy sitting in Cecot. Im SUPER happy that it aint ME.. I hope you are never in that situation either.
Thank you for your comment. Since you have experience there and 99% of the posters do not, I appreciate your take.
@@WreckedRectummost people frankly see it as a sacrifice for the greater good in thay country due to how fucking rampant crime was there. Couldn't even walk outside.
1 thing to note 11:45. This is Norway we’re talking about. Its crime was low even before it started these policies. But El Salvador literally had enough gangsters to make armies.
Norway is rich, and it only has to accommodate like a few thousand prisoners at most
This is kind of the point. Norway's society makes it really easy for people to stay on the right side of the law.
That is partly because of wealth distribution, social norms, good opportunities, and effective law enforcement.
He also can’t compare the criminals from Norway to those in Latin America; I don’t recall armed commandos gunning down people in Norway or dismembering people to be put in bags by the dozens like in Mexico.
His comparison is downright absurd.
@@Ludix147 you can’t compare Norway’s economic history and El Salvador’s; Norway has a longer history and it wasn’t beyond violent crime in the past; needs to be fixed before. You can’t reason with some people like in your dream world.
@@Ludix147 you also can’t deny that El Salvador became the safest country in Latin America from literally being the most violent.
@@NiloNovaWhat you're saying isn't even true though. It isn't the safest country by a long shot.
As a Latin American myself, El Salvador was known to be incredibly dangerous - it was well known that due to corruption, the gangs were running the country AND prisons. Corruption in Latin America is the biggest problem.
This is a last resort - the amount of innocent people murdered in the country was shocking. As Bukele said, El Salvador had already taken the advice of the Americas but their ideas to reform the country have never worked. So he stopped listening to them. El Salvador does not tell the US what to do, so why the US feels the need to involve themselves is beyond me. They have their own things to worry about - like healthcare and homelessness.
It also seems strange that westerners with zero experience with south american culture believe they have the answers...
We only discuss the rights of the prisoners, but what about the victims and their families?
This video doesn't seem to fairly discuss the true horrors experienced by El Salvadorians. But then again, this is only my opinion.
I think the message is less "el salvadors actions are wrong no matter how you look at it" and more of an indormational overview. How trying to extinguish that fire this way might light it up more then ever before in the future. How having blind trust in the president might backfire, and how el salvador has to build for the future now.
The video is about the prison situation, and he doesn't represent the US govt but rather sharing human right concern that interests him. Ending the gang violence is great but how to do is the question, by locking up anyone who looks like a gang? That is not the justice system and long term sustainable solution.
@@donvitopatata Maybe so, and I appreciate your perspective. Although, they have already tried to do it like America. The previous prisons that western countries would like did absolutely nothing so I don't blame Bukele for doing this.
Although, I do agree that blindly following a president is silly, and by no means do i endorse that. But I have to say that El Salvador had already made multiple attempts before having to settle for this mega-prison.
Also notably, this isn't a 1st world country with millions to throw away in rehab. This is a poor country with psychopathic criminals. They are not able to house AND rehabilitate like the country this video referenced (Norway I think?).
One major issue is the 20 arrests a day - that is atrocious.
They should have talked to scholar from El Salvador or at least Latin America because no matter how many qualifications that Australian lady has, she speaks from a place of privilege and won't understand some nuances or lived experience
@@m77mohamed40 That's understandable and I somewhat agree with what you are saying.
I mentioned in another reply that the way they are 'picking criminals' randomly is atrocious. But my point is that the mega-prison is needed, and I 100% believe that the method of arrests needs to change. I also believe that the (real) El Salvadorian serial killers aren't a priority in terms of human rights - they took the same rights away from the innocent people.
However, the reason I bring up the US is because everything being recommended by those commenting has already been recommended by the US, then attempted in El Salvador, and it didn't work.
I think a common misconception is that El Salvador didn't try everything they could until they had to settle for this, the country is poor, so I find it hard to criticise the lack of investment into 'rehab'.
Funny how Ashley Batastini discusses the horrors of CECOT and its treatment of the inmates inside the safety of her secure home and thousands of miles away from the violence.
why is that funny? is she not allowed to live in a safe area and report on unsafe ones?
It shows what she is suggesting is absolute bullshit @@danchisholm1
@@danchisholm1 she's definitely allowed to, but that's gonna affect how others view her report because she is removed from the unsafe ones and reporting from an outside perspective, lacking the experience of being in an unsafe society
@danchisholm1 I agree, I'm sick of Americans and their advice.
They gave so much human rights that homosexuals and pedophiles have more rights than normal people.
The pink hair said more than enough.
It’s never people from El Salvador advocating for prisoners human rights.
I wouldn't blame them.. It seemed like utter chaos before some of these measures
@@NyanyiCI lived in El Salvador for 10 years and it was hell. Literally constantly living in fear and losing loved people to the gangs. Bukele actually made the country great
Maybe because the freedom of press, assembly and speech got restricted brainiac.
@@IDK-ze5cc or maybe because people don’t feel bad about serial killers.
@@NiloNova yeah, theres lots of people like you who are more concerned with retribution than rehabilitation, and who think that human rights can be stripped from anyone you disagree with.
oh yeah rehabilitating an entire chain of gangs that go up to 50k people as a third world country is definetely something comperable to one of the richest nations in the world rehabilitating a much smaller amount of criminals that dont come from organised gangs.Solid take mate.
Well Someone isnt creative, some of yall really cant imagine a better world eh😂
@@a.wadderphiltyr1559 You mean all the innocents as well? Typical Right Wing L🤣
The point is to create such initiatives
@@a.wadderphiltyr1559
Look at it this way, if you’re guaranteed to live in hell no matter what crime you commit, why not commit every crime once you’ve committed one.
In for a penny in for a mile.
@@aturchomicz821 Yes the innocent prisoners are a pity. But you have to be del*sional to think that a second world country has the resources to make an effective rehabilitation system for 2% of its population and that most of the gangsters are open to be rehabilitated.
I guess this dumbness is expected from someone who says"Typical (Insert hated wing) Wing L"
As a Salvadoran American, they didn't accidentally give up democracy they willingly did so.
Most people in El Salvador, are so tired they don't mind that these people lose human rights as long as people feel safe
Many of these members would extort businesses and people, force marriages, rape, murder, and are responsible for many other crimes and disgusting and atrocious acts against innocents. People got tired of living in fear.
Bukele, is an authoritarian, let's get that straight, but he's not looking to rule with an iron fist, he could've easily done so with constitutional changes since no one can stop him, but he choose not to, he's more interested in stabilizing the country.
Of course there are good dictators, authoritarian rule with the right person can be a great thing. The problem is that you can't trust them to always be like that 30 years from now.
to be fair, I wouldn't call it a democracy prior to this since every elected official was just in the gang's pockets
People who give up liberty for safety deserve neither
El Salvador doesnt have the resources and also has too high of a crime rate to not handle this in a extreme manner. Without extreme actions their country wouldve only gone down worse.
How do you know this? What is your evidence here? Please cite sources/references that support this statement. Thanks
@brigit.the.seagoat el Salvador had one of the highest murder + r*pe rates in the world and was bassicly ruled over by gangs. If you take a mild approach it'll just continue. Just look at the rest of south america. Gangs are terrorising these nations for decades.
@@brigit.the.seagoat Well as for the resources you can look at GDP and for crime rate, thats already in this video. As for what could happen without this look at Mexico, Haiti, or Columbia in the 80s. Hopefully this can be used as a launch pad to actually imorve the country for a place of peace but we will have to see.
@@gothicusmaximus5697 Let's hope Bukele actually changes the country. He can imprison as many people as he wants, but the root problems of why those people joined gangs in the first place will still exist. That's what needs fixing.
@@CityWhisperer I agree, i just hope that now there is some peace it can be built upon without him being a dictator
Comparing Norway to El Salvador is insane😂😂😂
yeah very out of touch, they are different in every way imaginable. Attempting Norways model in El Salvador would turn into a huge pile of steaming shit
you must be from the USA...
@@the-taste-of-fun me?
@@the-taste-of-funscammer
@@m.a.a.d9275I'm gay too buddy lol
I was really impressed with your channel and even shared it with my wife tonight. However, after hearing your perspective on Bukele, my opinion has shifted. My family is from Mexico, and while I’ve grown up with the benefits of first-world amenities, I can’t help but admire what Bukele has done with MS-13. I wish the Mexican government would take a similar approach with the cartels. It’s easy to criticize another country's methods from the comfort of a first-world democracy. But how can a country address the root problems when its population is terrorized by criminals? Bukele has done something remarkable for El Salvador, and I wish Mexico would follow suit so it can truly begin to flourish.
Mexico already tried what Bukele did in 2008 and it failed spectacularly, murders rose in an unprecedented way and at the end the cartels were still there, turns out you couldnt compare gangs with machetes to professionally trained cartels. Also Fern didnt say that El salvador shouldnt imprison the gang members, they criticized the lack of press freedoms, the horrible conditions at the prison, the ammount of possible innocents, the indiscriminate arrests, quotas, etc. What happens when they all get released in 15 years? What happens when Bukele exits the presidency? Or what if he doesnt? Being desperate for a solution shouldnt make you adverse to its criticisms.
This is not a solution that is replicable to cartels. Maras are gangs, cartels are businesses, organized crime, terrorist organizations, drug smugglers, kidnappers, paramilitary organizations, and politicians, all at once. Maras are child’s play compared to cartels. This is why this solution will never work in Mexico.
Im American and so far I love this Bukele dude. Channel owner seems to have an agenda of virtue signaling about freedom of press. Typical american mentality to grandstand from safety in the usa.
Defending a quota of arrests by police and mass trials is actual insanity dont matter how you put it, thousands of innocent people are forced to live in inhumans conditions, the video explains it very well you're just blinded by rage and lack any nuance on the topic.
@@diogostw7286 They never specifically addressed those. The original commenter could be talking about the shade thrown on him like overthrowing the constitution, becoming a dictator, storming the vote, whatever.
This video didn’t hit the mark. Comparing El Salvador to Norway is insane. Completely different breed of criminal
They're still all humans that just want to prosper. Having good opportunities is how you achieve that, as can be seen in a place like Norway where it's really hard to not have those opportunities in life. That approach will always be better than changing your country into an autocratic and fascist police state that doesn't grant anyone basic human rights when they're suspected of something whilst not even found guilty yet. The cops don't even have to pretend to have a reason for throwing random people in jail, not to mention the people killed by guards and police being thrown into mass graves without anyone knowing they died. That's some scary shit to live under.
Is it tho?
“Crime” is kinda of a made up thing, just like laws or money.
They all serve the capital owner’s intrests under capitalism.
People in need are never the issue, but the system that forces such conditions upon them.
@@Glitch_II the murder capital of the world does not have good people with face tattoos
@@azpont7275 you know even if you make the conditions they live in better, the ones who are already part of the gangs wont budge, its like Ive already killed someone, society wont accept me anyway, so why dont I just try my best to become a respectable gang member earning as much money as possible and earning myself a "veteran" status after my mid 50s. Thats their mentality. The conditions they were in were and pretty much still are so bad, it is insanely difficult to rehabilate, you could maybe change the way the 15-20 Year olds think. And another thing pretty much everyone who has a tattoo in that prison already killed, or atleast helped killing someone or even multiple people
@@azpont7275 I guess you haven't seen the videos?
i love your videos but as a Salvadorian myself i feel like you really needed to experience all the gang violence and the fear of hearing shots ring all night to properly make this assumption about Bukele some may say he's corrupt but so was our last president but all he did was stuff his pants full of money at least Bukele is trying to make change for the citizens even if he has to bends so rule to stay in power .
Bending the rules is always how it starts. But hey, if you want a leader who doesn't care about the rules, just remember this 5 years from now. Remember that you asked for this. You wanted this. This was your choice, and you chose this.
@@kezia8027 oh shut it already kezia, calling a democratically elected leader a dictator is absurd. Have you once in your lifetime visited el salvador? have you ever had to deal with gangs who hold government workers hostage? have you ever had to lick some gangstas feet to survive your miserable life? the very liberalism you try to force upon people was the reason why governments of south america didnt stopped gangs before the were the threat they once inposed. Youre just an imperialist who tries to shit someone who makes his country a good place. just like how many call tito or ataturk a dictator which is true they were dictators but their dictatorship wasnt harmful to their people on the contrary they are loved by the people they rule upon.
@@Sunflower-ug3eh youre forgetting this is a country where your options are corruption and risk of being murdered daily or corruption and safety. you say wait 5 years... till what? That type of warning is what you say to a western country because it might end up like el salvador... you gotta triage your priorities in society and staying alive to see the next day is the most important, what the hell is the point of a government thats not corrupt if they cant even protect citizens, these arent problems we have faced in recent history in the west so youre only seeing it through your perspective, this is litearlly the nuclear option because no other long term progress could be made until this problem was dealt with,.
It shows you how desperate people are when corruption sounds like a picnic in the park, such arrogance to think you know what its like to be put in that situation. its literal life and death.
As a westerner this is what I was assuming so thanks for clarification. Fern made it seem like the changes bukele made were stripping the country of its democracy and going to be a dictatorship.
I fully understand that there was a strong chance if he wasn’t reelected during all of this and someone corrupt was elected instead it would all be for nothing. Extreme situations need extreme action.
@@Sunflower-ug3eh Ah yes, let’s get rid of bukele and let the gangs run free again, is that what you suggest? If you think corruption isnt a problem in EVERY country then idk what to tell you.
It's easy to say if you haven't lived there for so many years of fear, you have no idea what it feels like.
Yeah it's easy to judge El Salvador from a relatively wealthy and safe country. It's clearly a complicated situation anyone outside of El Salvador can't fully grasp.
Professor from Melbourne commenting on El-Salvador and directly comparing it to Norway... yeah... you lost me there fern...
The dyed hair and LA girl accent killed me tbh 🤣
That woman has no idea what shes talking about. Like... AT ALL.
wow, fern is super sad... no one cares man you are NOBODY
what are you talking about
its actually an extremely fair point, norway is completely different from el salvador and compairing them is malicious@@world.today1004
"NO ESCAPE"
The thumbnail implies that inmates are supposed to escape prison.
Yes that is the idea of rehabilitation. The current kind of draconian system just ensures that criminals will stay criminal even when released which will eventually lead to them returning to prison.
@LuisTheG1 that would be "NO REHABILITATION". Different things imo
exactly what I was thinking.
It implies there is no way out of the prison. Literally and legally.
@@CityWhisperer In germany escaping prison is legal.
Another story for you, Juan parents got killed in front of his eyes when 9, and got caught in a Crossfire during a gangs vendetta in the middle of a street. That was Salvador before.
Funny how people who think El Salvador is making a mistake would never go there.
Agreed, people have no idea what was going on there and how bad it situation was.
@@stokbrood Nor you obviously. They have been making deals with gang leaders
@@shakiMiki Does it really seem that way to you? 10s of thousands of gang members and affiliates are imprisoned indefinitely right now with no trial. They must be the world's dumbest gang leaders to negotiate a deal like that.
No they haven't.
Yeah. I don't want to visit a dictatorship. I have tattoos, so I would get arrest. (Anyone with tattoos get incarcerated without due process. They automatically think you are in a gang if you have any kind of tattoo.)
I've watched all of your videos and enjoyed them all. I think this video is an exception. Would've been informative to hear what academics in El Savador think instead of people from Norway or Australia
if you think you're going to get a fair and balanced opinion from someone WITHIN an el salvadoran prison then your ignorance is so great that even THIS video probably went over your head.
@@kezia8027 wow are every El Savadorian academics in the prison? Crazy human rights violation indeed
@@kezia8027 snarky comment aside, you don't think gang members are the academics in the country right?
@@kezia8027 Oh, boy...
Whatever academics were in charge before Bukele did a pretty good job based on the statistics. Before Bukele was elected the murder rate was dropped from 107 to 38 per 100k... Bukele only lowered it by 20...
9:02 "some will never see their loved ones again"
yeah, some victims of those thugs will never see their loved ones again too
cause they're dead
I´m Mexican, and we suffer from a similar situation than the one in El Salvador (if not worse). It is extremely triggering when apparently it causes more indignation the way prisoners (most of them kill in the most sadistic way) are treated than the assasinations of innocent civilians. Of course Norway has a different method, because Norway does NOT have the same problems. I would have loved if you talked more about the sadistic "logisctics" of the narcos, rather than taking a soft approach on the criminals so people can undestand why that method of encarceration is very popular.
I was thinking the same thing. What El Salvadore is doing is wrong, but so is letting it continue to happen to innocents in Mexico. Both solutions are immoral. I am just glad I do not have to be the one to choose.
This model needs to be applied to Mexico.
Being Brazilian, it is completely relatable the problems and possible solutions that are brought up and mentioned in this video. Gang violence is something that pretty much anyone from Latin America can relate to and not being able to have full peace because of the insane crime rates that exist.
As much as I agree that a lot of times people that seem to overlook or not consider those realities as much (usually from safer countries), the main root is still one: how did things get the way they were?
Mass incarceration is probably the only short-term solution that El Salvador had, but just watch the patterns Bukele is showing to historical dictatorships should be of major concern to El Salvadorians.
Reminding the main point (especially those who easily miss, or can relate): being able to walk around with little to no anxieties in your historically neighborhood is a feeling that is hard to describe. And honestly, a huge act of patriotism to any government that can achieve that.
But the point that was loosely brought up in the video but not drilled as much and as I mentioned before: what is the root cause?
If any country that gets out of a situation like El Salvador is not able to maintain its Democracy, economy improving (horizontally and vertically) is probably naive to think your country will thrive.
I hope all of us from Latin America are able to see our countries get out of its situations right now, and I hate when Europeans and Americans think they have a simple or accurate view on the topic, but if there's one thing that cannot fall is our Democracy.
Without that, what exactly are we fighting for really?
They addressed their mistake in the pinned comment :)
And now you have a Jewish president. Welcome to the NWO, latinx
Wasn't the "1/3 people arrested were innocent" a number that was unconfirmed and came out of nowhere?
I swear i remember them basing this out of nothing
“Source: I made it the fuck up.” 💀
the media was run by gangs, so
@@willgoogletakethisname3963 right? How brainwashed do you have to be to post something like this?
Just so you know, it's actually 3/3 of those arrested were innocent, I remember that the 1/3 was unconfirmed. I swear I remember that @PerfectZeroMusic_ has literally no idea what he's talking about.
You can trust me! I swear I remember this!
unfrotunately all the data sounds wishy washy, so perhaps unless youre actually living in el salvador, you have no clear picture of what's been going on, how progress has been
@@kezia8027 My dude what are you trying to say?
“3/3 of those arrested were innocent”
so you’re telling us that everyone in the prison is innocent?
at minute 1:36 you say he joined a gang and you skipped to him being taken to prison, what happens in between those two events is quite important, you cannot just skip it!
@sebastianm8465 What Happened?
@@AGuyNamedAlwho tf knows
This is a fake profile, maybe done for personal reasons?
This is the exact definition of desperate times call for desperate measures.
That doesn’t mean that the downside of measures like these shouldn’t be discussed. Because even though everyone may immediately see a reduction in crime and think all is well, there is a hidden long-term cost to ‘temporarily’ or partially abandoning human rights.
That is of course not to say nothing should be done.
Short term band aids will hide a long term catastrophe. Either way, they are screwed. They’re just delaying the inevitable.
In 15 years they will be released and more unscrewed than ever.
@@JellisJansen That's true, but the video itself doesn't give due credit or attitude to the merits of the system. I think that's the main complaint.
I just weird because, yes the system is failing and innocent people are jailed, but whats the alternative? Before this 3 times the amount of innocent people died, being collateral in the blood path of the gangs. These innocent people are at least alive, yes imprisoned but alive.
I think the message of the video is more of a "it works, but for what cost.... and how long". Innocent collaterals, bigger breeding grounds for future crime, a leadershp that grows more and more authoritan. On the surface, yes less people die, and dangerous ones are locked away, but that is just the present and only a part of the whole picture.
Also, as an innocent guy in that situation it just takes some time till you would wish to be dead. Maybe you are a lucky one, when the guard snaps and proceeds to beat you way harder than usual. Way too hard to survive
I'd rather die than spend the rest of my life innocently imprisoned in a place filled with violence tbh…
Yes, preventing the death of 3x as many peope is a very very valid point, but still, life is over for the ones innocent inside this ishthole, they go through living hell day by day by day…
The alternative is build up the country.
Gangs mainly form because people with no perspective band together to somehow make a living. So, by the high poverty, help people find work and send kids to school, you prevent them from ever falling to the gangs. Punishing people for being part of a gang can only work if there is another path they can take after all.
And this is not just theory. Many countries have used this approach to decrease crime rates and substance abuse among which are Island, Portugal and Italy. Though granted, they didn't have it as bad as here. Still, fighting crimes with guns, prisons and violence has historically almost never worked to lead a country to peace and wealth. The USA has fought tooth and nails against drugs and the smuggling cartels for decades and they are no closer to winning than when they started. Same for most other South American countries and none of them seem to be winning so far.
Trolley problem, in this case save 3000 innocent at the cost of 1000 innocent (and 2000 guilty). There is no objective truth.
@@lubue5795 you're absolutely right, a solid economy, perspective and education is the only long term solution for this. So how would a nation, ruled and strangled by gangs and organized criminals, gain wealth, security and education, if the gangs see this as an active threat to their existence and will literally not stop at anything to keep their stranglehold
I feel like this video is mostly targeted at painting the president of El Salvador as a monster that has taken away democracy. While in reality, people have probably never been happier, the 92% vote for him is the argument for that. I fully support Bukele
Over twenty thousand innocent people arrested, hundreds of murders by police officers and the abolition of democracy... Sounds great.
@@Li-Nussgreat job on ignoring the net positive. Also, as the video states, 8000 have been released so far and are being continued to be released
the ad placement was insane
Yeah, was _not_ the right time or place for a sponsor shoutout lmao
@@Hanstra I don't think the creator chooses where the ads go?
I like you Fern, I really like you. This video has been a complete miss. These prisoners made the country utter chaos.
It's like if someone with a good, yet strong will took over Haiti today (a country you literally cannot visit), arrested all the gang members and made the country somewhat livable again, then you attack that leader for dealing with the problem the only way it could be dealt with.
Think about the families these guys ruined too. Bruh
What about the families ruined by having their innocent parents imprisoned without trial for looking vaguely like gang members?
Arresting the gang members without a form of long-term justice would be an insult to the families of the ones unlucky enough to be part of the gangs in the first place. Justice doesn't have to purely be punitive.
2 comments on this channel
@@anna-flora999What about the hundreds if not maybe thousands more that were slaughtered due to deciding to breathe air outside at night?
As stated in the video, the murder rate was going down anyway, there is NO EVIDENCE that his policy worked. Putting people in concentration camps and torturing them is not a solution...
it’s encouraging to see some parts of the world are still treating criminals like criminals
That's not how you treat criminals.
@@rohithkumarbandari A third were just nabbed to reach a quota. The parent commenter is totally cool with that.
@@trancerobot I agree innocents/every prisoner should be given a fair trial one more time.
But I don't think el Salvador model is wrong. They tried to follow what west said for YEARS, what happened? Nothing.
Now after bukele el Salvador has become safe. Atleast for the next decade.
Western values western rules can't be imposed everywhere. You can't enforce values and rules you have in country say switzerland in a country like Afghanistan!
Some people never change.
@@rohithkumarbandari ah yes give 5 star rooms and shit like Norway? Prisons are for people to suffer for their crimes and relaise their crimes.
Amnesty and others can fü€k themselves. They only care about dragging developing countries back down. They don't care about Hamas killing the Jews, IDF killing Palestinians, never did they care when US invaded Vietnam or Iraq.
Wake tf up
A criminal is someone who breaks the law. I guess every underage drinker just lost their right to be deemed human.
Yeah easy to judge if you didn't have to suffer under the gangs.
Easily to say, if you are not innocent and arrested in El Salvador.
Every rich liberal American ever. And I said this as a liberal leaning person myself.
Human rights are never easy. Discussion about them may be uncomfortable in difficult times, but that is when such discussions are most necessary. It should be clear that these safety measures always come at a (non-pecuniary) cost and videos like this one point out those costs.
Government doesn’t let a good crisis go to waste
I have. I agree with him. +You don't know his life.
Being Salvadoreño it’s really hard to sympathize with Maras bro. I get it sucks that innocents and youngsters pushed in that life are casualty but the amount of terrorism they do makes me lose all care for them. That burning bus shit is so common it’s really fucked.
Yeah, tons of privileged people are advocating for gang members to be released because their feelings might be hurt is so funny to me
@@CrimsonRequiem1 What part of 1/3 are innocents dont you guys get
@@Redplane70 take a look at the footage and point out which third are the angels...
Two things can be true at the same time and critizing current conditions doesn't mean advocating that nothing should have been done
The lack of sighting your sources is amazing.... What I am just supposed to take your word from it
Have you checked the description?
@@Jfile904the sources are garbage, and the takes in the video are garbage as well
Decades ago, my aunt's family had to flee the purges in El Salvador.
If you were educated, too influential, or in any way perceived as a possible alternative to the regime; they wanted you dead. Her dad was just a college professor, but they put him on a hit list.
So, I'm not surprised that this is where the country is at, from a social or demographic standpoint. Previous administrations made all the high-earning middle-class, academics, and pro-democracy citizens fear for their lives, and most of them left. The country is now mostly full of the grandchildren of people who either didn't want to leave, or couldn't, and mass-scale incarceration and death already have a precedent there.
In Romania, we had this guy called Vlad Țepeș, also known as the famous "Dracula". He acted with an iron fist. Crime dropped massively during his reign. There is a saying that we have here: "You could leave a bag with gold on the ground and nobody would steal it". Vlad Țepeș used public impalement as an execution method.
Hello from a Serb, brother. I need to go see his Castle.
That was centuries ago. You cannot compare then to now. How dumb…
@@sforza209 The direct impalings don't apply, the general sentiments do. Think of literally every proverb ever
I think it’s fitting that El Salvador treats them like animals after they stole the lives of countless people and treated others as nothing but dogs. It sends a powerful message to criminals that they’re not gonna be happy in prison. You PAY for your crimes
Did you miss the part about 1 in 3 being innocent or did you just wanna sharpen your pitchfork and yell at a cloud
@@EpicuriousGeorgedid you miss out the part where he said el salvador's gang violence and homicide rates was highest in the world?
He had no other choice.
You can't implement a EU or western style rules in a shitty country.
That man is trying to improve his country.
Gang members don't all kill though. Mass trials are not built to personalize verdicts.
@@EngineeredFemalewould you still feel that way if it was you or family members that g9t wrongly convicted?
I want to tell a bit of cruel imprisonment, in Thailand, so many people are jailed for defamation of the royals, some sentenced up to 40 years for it, even a mother with 2 years old toddler was jailed, having to give up her child to someone else on the child's birtday just for sharing a social media post. It's beyond cruel I can't get it off my head.
I can't imagine, being 2 years old, life is going as normal, when suddenly your mother is gone for reason you don't understand, and even with regular visits, it would even be more cruel, you just don't understand why mom is not coming with you, and why you can't get in there. Thai law on the royal is just insane.
There was high profile serial murder case where the perpetrator is a mother as well, she got suspense sentence until the child is 3 years old, but somehow, when it's about the royal, the court doesn't care.
Well she knew the sentences on that act in Thailand, so you think she doesnt had a role in her own faith?
Its the prime example of fuck around and find out
@@MJ-lh7tlyeah I'd sure love to live in fear of any social media post landing me in prison and idiots like you saying it's just your own responsibility to comply with government censors. I don't know about you but I'm glad to live in a country where free expression is valued as a right.
@@MJ-lh7tl When did you lose your moral compass? Must have been very long ago
@@MJ-lh7tl Yes, she doesn't. She didn't make those unfair rules, so her being hurt by them is an injustice.
The comparison doesn’t work here where gangs are so malicious they can request any wannabe to murder someone just to prove a point.
Now imagine a 2 year old child not having his parents because their parents angered a cartel.
I understand the loss of democracy here but you cannot realistically think you are going to make a big impact by making these scary crime organizations that murder and rape go to therapy or by taking ages to trial someone and end up like Mexico where corrupt judges let murders run free.
I seriously can't comprehend how people complain about making the most dangerous country the one of the safest in the world
Haven’t you watched the video??
I'm sure the innocent incarcerated would be upset
@@AnneH-s4b only people with gang affiliations get put in prison. Literally all of them have gang tattoos
@@m.r4841"He maybe" "It is said" and "Some sources indicate"
Omg she is so insufferable. She provided zero solutions. None.
The solution is lock em up and let them think about their life choices for the next 50 years, if they're...lucky?
Btw, the guards don't fill that grave. The prisoners do. You sound like the type of person to give someone who chopped someone's head off a sentence of 5 years and rehab.
They don't deserve such nice conditions.
Many of them are quite literally random people picked up off the streets. This country will get 10 times worse over the next couple of decades, just letting you know, this is Soviet tactics.
@@filipferencak2717how will it get worse if the people making it worse aren’t free?
@@elliottdennis2014 You'll find out, dw
That won't actually fix them, though, if the plan is to release them after said 50 years. Rehabilitation isn't necessarily because the prisoners deserve to be treated like so.
I love how your character Juan is said to be on a transport with "suspected" gang members the sentence after you admit he's not merely a "suspect" but an actual member of an extremely violent gang. If even your concocted fictional example character legitimately deserves to be in jail then maybe you should rethink your position.
😂😂
He loves ms13 though so he can't
He also alluded to that once Juan gets out, he's going to have no job, no training, and no skills so he would have no choice but rejoin the gang and perpetuate the cycle
You cannot tell me that the best time to mention your sponsor was directly after saying these people (including innocents) are put in brutal conditions and when killed in said conditions are buried in mass graves...
Crazy
As someone from the West, it's completely unthinkable that you could just elect someone and that they would actually solve problems and make everything better, not worse. I guarantee that if such a thing happened here, no one could care less about some sheltered journalist calling those measures "undemocratic".
10:11 does she really not think that they have had a trash behavior BEFORE being in prison? Does burning a bus with innocent people seem like trash behavior already? I feel like if you behave like trash you get treated like trash and that exactly whats happening there
Childhood trauma exists for quite a few mass murderers. In which case it's if you get treated like trash you behave like trash
7:45 - I love the effort that you put into the "Zoom" UI. There are a few mistakes here and there but it does look pretty good. Proves how much you pay attention to the details.
Sorry, but calling the most evil prison and trying to gain sympathy for those monsters is the problem.
You have never seen a child of only 6 years old with a burned scar in the face. Done by the gangs.
As a Latin American I have seen it.
Until you see in person the horrors, you will understand that there was no other option.
how is arresting innocent people and torturing them going to help stop crime?
@@joedatius No se puede hacer una tortilla sin romper algunos huevos.
@@ObedSamudio Fallacy of relative privation
@@Theinatoriinatornah the people of that country simply see the arrests of innocents as a sacrifice for the greater good. That's how fucked the criminal situation is there. It goes to show that the rest of the world has no fucking idea how bad it is to the point that the public sees this extreme action as a good thing. The politician didn't even manipulate anybody because the public already hates the criminals
@@zaingamingtv2242 perfectly worded
Congratulations to Bukele, and in extension to the people of El Salvador for making the enormous progress in fighting violent gangs.
So, you’re telling me while I’m watching this from the peace of home, they’re people currently living in these conditions? It’s the little things we should be grateful for..
11:13 this is extremely misleading. Norway's quality of life is much higher, which means fewer mental health issues and fewer crimes to begin with.
i just want to say your videos are incredibly high quality, i love it!
Comparing El Salvador to Norwegian prisons is like comparing a great white shark to a goldfish by saying " fish are fish"
0:10 anyone notice the guard tower is on the road
YES!!!!
😭🙏
it happens
After you pointed it out...
i’d say it’s protecting that lane of traffic superbly well…
If you're on fire the long term is not a priority, these gangs have set the country on fire, once the bulk of the valance is quelled then long-term solutions should be implemented, even if the US hasn't concord the prevention and rehabilitation.
False arrests are a failure of any criminal justice system, but I do believe that in this case it can somewhat be warranted.
Changing the construction to keep yourself in power is not a good idea under almost any circumstances and is a huge red flag
you people disgust me. You want to pretend you care about law or rights, that somehow changing the constitution worries you, but the stripping of OTHER people's rights is fine because you view them as evil.
You disgust me. How people like you can justify locking up 15 year olds in these literally inhumane conditions is depraved and immoral and only serves to perpetuate the violence. Congratulations, you're just as evil as those you condemn.
People who share the opinion of the creators of this video have a strong Western bias, where they assume that there's some sort of justice system to fix everything. There isn't. There aren't the resources, and they're dealing with terrorists that have cash, guns, and buy off politicians and cops on the daily.
During the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus, which meant that anyone could be detained without trial if they disrupted peace. Without it, can you imagine how the legal system would have possibly operated to prosecute the Confederate soldiers and protestors who were in favor of slavery? Unfortunately, in times of crisis, the rights of the innocent will be trampled, but what is the alternative? To allow slavery and terrorism to thrive to keep a moral high ground? There is no morally correct choice, as either way innocents will suffer, but there is a practical choice which reduces the amount of suffering of innocent people as possible. If there was no crisis, this would be an entirely different issue.
Well spoken.
A fairly balanced and nuanced take 👌 well done sir
how the hell are false arrests warranted? that only creates more criminals
If only America had the balls to clean up like this.
Balls are useless. They need a spine.
Depending on who you vote for in a month many of these violent people will be gone.
America is already like this but the criminals with white skin remain free
Trump Won
Salvador is entirely in America, specifically in Central America.
I love the amount of latin American prison experts in this comment section
More like suffering experts. But his Take was an L.
Privileged westerners trying to educate us on what's right and wrong. Hilarious
It's....one perspective, yeah. No one claimed to be omniscient, you can always go somewhere else
I'm reminded of the short story *The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas.* Its about a Utopian city whose grandeur is upheld by the suffering of a young child who's perpetually tormented beneath the city. Everyone is made aware of the child once they come of age, and the vast majority of people are content to let the child suffer to maintain the peace and prosperity of their city.
Bless Bukele, may the good people of El Salvador be at peace.
Why are people trying to rehabilitate individuals who have spent the vast majority of their life being gang members? Their instincts and habits have been formed and hardened into their brain wiring. There’s no changing these rats.
Also, there doesn’t need to be a gameplan for reintegration. Didn’t you say that most of these prisoners will never leave the prison for the rest of their lives?
You seem like a rat to me, no go into these cages and never come out. Who cares if you are innocent, not worth the time investigating.
For an extreme situation like El Salvador was on, you need extreme mesures, even if cruel and unfair, otherwise nothing would change. It's sad but it is what it is.
Ironically, you have to be careful of overreach because a government may become a ruthless gang of itself.
Yet, when you say that you get called ignorant or misguided...
All governments are gangs, insofar as they’re an organisation that uses violence. This isn’t a new revelation.
Most people actually want their government to be a ruthless gang that protects them, acts in their interests, keeps order and lays the groundwork for prosperity.
Long term stuff has to come after short term stuff has been fixed.
thank you Bukele!!
isn't it only me, who the thumbnail tricked into thinking this is another one of those minecraft UNBREAKABLE prisons?
I can relate this to my country Nigeria... at the moment we face so much corruption but we have never taking the extreme road to fix it and the country is still in massive decline
I'm not supporting el Salvador but i understand their struggle very much this can also be seen as a trolley problem "for every one innocent person detained five other innocent people are saved "
Most of the times countries can't afford the best options nd that's what western media doesn't understand
Hello from a Serb my African brother. Be wary of these biased videos as my country has suffered greatly from the youth taking such information as gospel. All the best
11:30 Ah yes the guy with a big ms13 tattoo on his forehead is innocent 😂😂😂 this guy
murder rate dropped 95 percent in a few years. that alone will get you reelected. people FEEL safer now and they love that. it's a base desire ib Maslow's hierarchy of needs
andrew tate as president 0:44
Looks nothing like Tate lol
lol Emory’s long lost child
Lmaoo 🤣😂
Idk man... As a salvadorian I was always told to be weary of gangs. Having one less stress in my life is amazing.
The tone of this video is why weak people have power, cowards behind keyboards
We welcome you in our midst, brother.
ironic ur using a keyboard to comment this
@@themountainwolf2096 when you are not smart enough to get a comment
The adjectives "weak people" and "cowards" are intended to stir up an emotional response. What some may call the logical fallacy of "Appeal to emotion."
"The tone of this video is why weak people have power, cowards behind keyboards" - A guy behind a keyboard
My Salvadorian brothers have suffered enough. They have spoken and this is what the majority of them want. These criminals have terrorized the Salvadorian public for decades. Sometimes, extreme measures are needed to solve extreme problems…
As much as I love Fern’s content, I think he fumbled on this one
Major fumble tbh
It’s SOOOOO easy for people on the outside to throw around words like “prevention and rehabilitation”
Thank you for making this video. You are guaranteed to face stiff opposition on this, even if you handle every subject matter with perfect grace. It takes real heart to make a dissenting video on something so popular. Another great video on Bukele is the one from Wendover Productions.
Why are first world country people complaining about shit they no nothing of. Dictator or not, the country is much safer. Stop crying for people who have no heart or sympathy for the community.
i think hes done a great job. especially given the country, circumstances and situation he inherited. perfect? no, but way better than most people would have done. in this age of rulers handing out false promises to get into office and never delivering, it is so satisfying to see violent crime drop from rank 1 in the world to one of the lowest LOL. its important to discuss tyranny and false imprisonment yeah, but fern give the guy some fucking credit where credit is due man, this man overdelivered.
My family is from El Salvador I just visited there for the first time, my dad was telling me that when he used to live here there was a civil war and so many gangs that he had a curfew at 6:00 and if he didn’t make it to his house by them he had to wave a white flag to show he wasn’t in the war and almost got shot multiple times.
Fern apparently doesn't want to lose El Salvador as a systemic friend of the west=democracies even if the country would otherwise sink into chaos. Great independent/in-depth/objective/fact-oriented/scientific contribution, high praise and my respect to the bros from simpli!
Amen
@@squid11160 It's my mantra to deal with this stuff without vomiting
¡Qué asco! Los dueños de este canal deberían llevarse a los pobres miembros de las pandillas para su casa en Países Bajos.
I think before all these gangsters were put in prison, the general public felt like they were in a prison ruled by gangs. The sympathy for these guys comes from people who have never had to feel that way about their society, in a way its a privileged perspective.
Imagine being judged with 899 other people and getting the same insane sentence just because they picked the guy who committed a quadruple homicide
Imagine having gang tattoos
El Salvador is a perfect example to of the phrase “sacrifice one to save the Many” or how ever it goes. The good outweighs the bad, especially since El Salvador is ran by Gangs. Destabilize the Gangs first giving control back to the people then Figure out the rest later once there’s order. Comparing Norway is a huge leap in logic, that’s like Apples to oranges.
That's literally the trolley problem, yeah
Comparing El Salvadorian prisoners to Norwegian prisoners is ridiculous.
God bless you President Bukele for cleaning up your nation and making it a safer place for all.
This feels like people from western countries moralizing for other people's countries, without truely knowing how bad the situation was.
13:50 Didn't bro was Chill like that
SO GLAD that I just discovered you, FERN! Subscribed with the BELL! ❤
Sounds like El Salvador is doing a lot better
I'm not against prisons... but this is beyond cruel. Yes, remove criminals from certain freedom and from society, but this is just inhumane. I'd rather die than be in a prison like that... And the thing that worries me even more is all those who innocent and in there.
This whole thing sounds like a great idea from the outside, the results are visible... But no democracy on the planet can support this. It's a quick solution, with no guaranteed results at a very very high cost. This will come back to haunt El Salvador one day.
I mean I dont believe its cruel, the gang members had too much power. The crime rate was SUPER high, and People were dying left and right by the hands of criminals for absolute petty reasons. Getting people to not want to participate in crime because the punishment is now WAY harsher is the way to go. Yes, it's understandable the "1/3" people who may be deemed innocent but there's always going to be a collateral for cleaning up, crime has also dropped by 70% iirc. The citizens are absolutely okay with it too, his ratings are sky high so far, we'll just have to see what he has planned out in the future.
The haunt hasn't arrived yet, but the criminals are always there. One at a time as they come
As a child of Salvadoran parents, this is a GREAT change , trust me , I have lost family myself to these maras (gangs). Bukele has done beautiful change to El Salvador, which has allowed my father to go back to visit my grandfather and our family.
Here's an idea if you don't want to end up in prison: do not associate with terrorist organizations.
I know, crazy stuff
"But but but they already made killing other people illegal, it should be more than enough, right?"
Yeah next time that 15 year old guy taken to fill the police quota should know better. Good for you for solving all crimes
If the punishment matches the crime, it's neither cruel nor ...evil.
I guess everyone is a bleeding heart - until they see their loved ones knifed to death in front of them, only to steal a few dollars and a smartphone.
Nope, im fully pro rehab because humans are irrational creatures and all evidence suggests Rehab works
You missed the main point of the video, it is meant to criticize Bukele as he is destroying the democracy of his country.
Or a slight disagreement everyone gets deleted. But let's talk about soft Norway and judge people living hell like conditions for hating their evil criminals.
@@texanplayer7651what democracy is there when there is mass death and govt inaction is allowing it.
Yes. This is correct. And people criticizing Bukele or the way this is being handle are clearly from a different continent or a different planet altogether.
Gangs are nothing but cancer, you can't negotiate with cancer.
*This Series Never gets old.. the effort they put into these is amazing* *Thanks* 😍
No way this doesn't break multiple Geneva conventions
The Geneva Conventions only concern humanitarian treatment in times of war, it does not govern what a country does inside of it's own borders when not at war.
Not one Salvadorian is advocating for the prisoners human rights, but ofc foreigners from much richer countries come and complain and try to give a solution when they’ve never lived under a gang dominated society
L take fern.
As a latin american, this video angered me, but also was funny, first because it felt like first world people dictating wtf we should do to reduce crime, then it almost felt like y’all were sorry for them, and that only come when you never had a robbery/theft a day nearby your house or when neither you nor your friends were mugged by these oh so sorry criminals and if you think these criminals are anything like the norwegian ones, try searching for the crimes of Champinha, or any organized crime for that matter, here in Brazil.
You are better than this, Fern.
This mfs think they have criminals. They do not, they only have naughty kids. I understand you bro.
Good on him. The innocent civilians of El Salvador now have a chance to work and contribute to their economy and community without fear.
“Drug dealing”
Proceeds to show two dudes meeting up and committing handshake
THE TITLE SHOULD BE "The Worst Prison in EL SALVADOR".
That's right, America is not a continent made up of dozens of countries, but consists exclusively of the USA...
Of course lowering the recidivism rate is also a point of discussion to further improve society in El Salvador. However, with its economical and cultural contexts within the country, I think that clearing the streets of gangs and criminals is the first step in the right direction. Setting up arrest quotas could pose an issue with wrongful convictions of innocent citizens and proper background checks and other measures could be implemented to mitigate that, but considering the extent of the situation in the country where gang-related activities and crimes run rampant in the streets and local communities, I can see why heavy arrests need to be made to expedite the clearing process. Hopefully they can do proper vetting of the arrested inmates, especially ones that have no criminal record, to re-trial them and exonerate them accordingly. A budget would have to be set aside to fund prison systems to ensure they run appropriately.
Ive seen that Bukele is popular with El Salvadoreans, but he offers no durable strategy for the country's development. And as you point out, he actually cuts deals with the gangs regularly -- law and order much? The country needs a leader that will erode El Salvador's poverty, gender-based violence, and subordination to international capital -- not lock up young men en masse
Bukele is a corrupt dictator who uses mass amounts of bots and propaganda to make his regime look good.
His second term is focused on the economy he said in his speech. Investors will not touch el salvador with murders happening everyday. He had to clean it up.
@@Overallhealthwellness this dude believes politicians at their word lmaaooo
What a privileged high horse take, extremely biased. To make a hit piece on a situation as nuanced as El Salvador's crime problem without addressing said nuances is crazy.
Bukele single-handedly made El-Salvador go from GTA to actually being able to walk outside on the street at night.
Rehabilitation for these criminals? MS-13? Yea right..some of these kids are recruited and indoctrinated young because there's no other other route but to join the gangs, there's no other options, so what are you gonna do? Rehabilitate them so they can just go back onto the street, and just re-join their gangs again, so they can kill again?
A second chance for murderers and rapist when their victims, families and children murdered in cold blood didn't even have one? Don't make me laugh.
4:49 Maybe they should've thought about before they beheaded and flayed innocent children in the streets.
Bukele said it himself: "If you don't like how im dealing with these prisoners how about I send them to you" easy to critique as an outsider.
And judging by all these other comments you deserve the heat you got and will continue to get.