I'm sure the railroads determined years ago that this was overall the most efficient way to get passengers from Western Europe into Russia, but I find myself asking if it wouldn't be faster just to do a cross-platform transfer of passengers between different gauge trains with nearly identical consists? I know it wouldn't be good if it was in the middle of the night, but for a daytime train it would work.
The Russian couplers are called SA3 or Willison (after their British inventor) and are also used on standard gauge in parts of Turkey, Iran, most of Iraq, and a few in France, as well as on narrow gauge railways in Africa and in mines worldwide.
Great video, I passed through here in 2016 on 2 occasions, and will do so again this year, 2018. Its a railway experience that you never forget. As it happens I passed through the shed a week before you did.
En España esto se realizaba con el MadridParis Expreso "Puerta del Sol", hasta mediados de 1980 y con el SudExpress-SudExpreso-Sudex heredado de la CIWL ParisMadridLisboa hasta la decada de 1990, aunque ya era desviado desde los 70 por Salamanca y no llegaba a la capital de España. In Spain this was done with the MadridParis Express "Puerta del Sol", until mid 1980 and the SudExpress-Sudexpreso-Sudex inherited from the CIWL ParisMadridLisbon, until the decade of 1990, although it was diverted from approximately the decade of 1970 by Salamanca and did not reach the capital of Spain.
The TALGO Train has a variable gauge system, in this case for 1520 mm and for the UIC standard gauge of 1435 mm The Talgo can change the gauge in few minutes That system calls Rodadura Desplazable
joliettraveler This is not the reason why Russia adopted the use of 1520mm gauge railways. It was purely down to cost, early railway construction in Russia saw 6' gauge, then it was decided to standardise the system in Russia, and the former soviet union as a whole to what we now know as 1520mm Russian gauge. This gauge overs the same advantages over European 1435mm standard gauge, without the additional cost of a wider gauge. Even though there is a break of gauge between 1435mm and 1520mm, there is technology in use to connect the 2 gauges seamlessly, the Talgo Gauge changer at Brest, Belarus is now in service, and saving time.
When the Russian rail network was built, the Tsar of that time asked how could an enemy attack on the railroad have been made impossible. The answer was to make the gauge wider, from 1453mm to 1524mm(which also did help the train to carry more weight per car, but hampered the ability to climb hills - not a problem on the Russian plains). Also, Stalin reinforced this idea to prevent the Nazis from using Russian rails in there attack on the Soviet Union. Russian is not the only European country with non-standard gauge. Spain and Portugal have narrower gauges
joliettraveler Look online regarding Russian track gauge, all will be revealed. As for carrying more weight than standard gauge. This is true to a point, but 90% of the freight that passes through Belarus from Russia or countries further afield gets trans shipped onto standard gauge, so weight wise, 1435 and 1520mm carries the same loads. Spain and Portugal use 1668mm Iberian gauge, the same rules apply there, freight gets trans shipped either way across the gauges and Talgo has gauge changers located all across Spain to allow seamless transition of high speed passenger trains from Spain's high speed standard gauge network onto the 1668mm Iberian gauge classic lines.
I have looked online, and nothing disputes my claim. You need to remember the Czar was an autocrat, and his word was law. I am well aware of the Talgo gauge changers, but that is not relevant to this discussion. There was talk of changing the Russian gauge to the standard European, but this was vigorously opposed by the Red Army and the Cheka on security grounds during the Russian revolution. The 6 foot gauge was short lived and only went approximately 18 km, or approx. 12 miles.
Your correct, the gauge in the shed is 1500mm, a compromise to allow the use of both gauges wheel sets, (bogies) whilst hoisting and changing takes place.
why they are not doing a play of 1435mm inside rail/1520mm between grooves play with grooved rails with thick outside linings? the gauge change would have been faster with bogie moving locomotives then.
Erkin Alp Güney The system in place at Brest and other gauge change interfaces is the most simple way of converting one to the other. This way retains loading gauge without lateral shift. To run interlaced gauntlet track into a gauge change area would make the task more complex and time consuming. Locomotives have a fixed gauge, their wheel sets are non interchangeable due to them being traction wheels providing power and connected to drive shafts and motors.
I did not propose gauntlet tracks, but a special grooved rail with inside clearance with narrower gauge and inter-grooves clearance with broader gauge.
This seams to be a common issue of compatibility with different European railway systems. How many non compatible railway standards are operating in Europe all together? It must cost them trillions of dollars every year in lost revenue and unrealized cost efficiencys.
There are altogether 10 countries that don’t use the standard gauge. Portugal, Spain, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova and Russia. In Spain there are also standard gauge hst lines so its easy and stop free to go from France to Spain. Also there are Talgo train sets that actually change their gauge while moving and boogie replacements being not needed. Talgo sets just glide through a facility and carry on its journey without a stop. Spain and Russia both has such kind of carriages. Also just for interest such a boogie change (and passport control) can take over 7 hours.
What's the reason? Just because that you think it's "weird" to do this with passengers inside? I don't think it's weird. For me it is much more weird to get up at 3 am, pack your shit and go outside to change trains. These operations don't stop at night fyi.
I'm sure the railroads determined years ago that this was overall the most efficient way to get passengers from Western Europe into Russia, but I find myself asking if it wouldn't be faster just to do a cross-platform transfer of passengers between different gauge trains with nearly identical consists? I know it wouldn't be good if it was in the middle of the night, but for a daytime train it would work.
The Russian couplers are called SA3 or Willison (after their British inventor) and are also used on standard gauge in parts of Turkey, Iran, most of Iraq, and a few in France, as well as on narrow gauge railways in Africa and in mines worldwide.
Great video, I passed through here in 2016 on 2 occasions, and will do so again this year, 2018. Its a railway experience that you never forget. As it happens I passed through the shed a week before you did.
En España esto se realizaba con el MadridParis Expreso "Puerta del Sol", hasta mediados de 1980 y con el SudExpress-SudExpreso-Sudex heredado de la CIWL ParisMadridLisboa hasta la decada de 1990, aunque ya era desviado desde los 70 por Salamanca y no llegaba a la capital de España.
In Spain this was done with the MadridParis Express "Puerta del Sol", until mid 1980 and the SudExpress-Sudexpreso-Sudex inherited from the CIWL ParisMadridLisbon, until the decade of 1990, although it was diverted from approximately the decade of 1970 by Salamanca and did not reach the capital of Spain.
The TALGO is faster than this system, it doesn't need to change the bogies
The TALGO Train has a variable gauge system, in this case for 1520 mm
and for the UIC standard gauge of 1435 mm
The Talgo can change the gauge in few minutes
That system calls Rodadura Desplazable
How much time does this process fully takes? Isnt this time consuming making the entire journey longer?
1 hour by train in Brest.
what could be more confusing buffers and SA3 knuckle cuplers and changing wheel sets fascinating
Dealing with one of the most ridiculous problems ever created by mankind...
There were military reasons why the Russians did this. It is also on the border with Mongolia.
joliettraveler This is not the reason why Russia adopted the use of 1520mm gauge railways. It was purely down to cost, early railway construction in Russia saw 6' gauge, then it was decided to standardise the system in Russia, and the former soviet union as a whole to what we now know as 1520mm Russian gauge. This gauge overs the same advantages over European 1435mm standard gauge, without the additional cost of a wider gauge. Even though there is a break of gauge between 1435mm and 1520mm, there is technology in use to connect the 2 gauges seamlessly, the Talgo Gauge changer at Brest, Belarus is now in service, and saving time.
When the Russian rail network was built, the Tsar of that time asked how could an enemy attack on the railroad have been made impossible. The answer was to make the gauge wider, from 1453mm to 1524mm(which also did help the train to carry more weight per car, but hampered the ability to climb hills - not a problem on the Russian plains). Also, Stalin reinforced this idea to prevent the Nazis from using Russian rails in there attack on the Soviet Union.
Russian is not the only European country with non-standard gauge. Spain and Portugal have narrower gauges
joliettraveler Look online regarding Russian track gauge, all will be revealed. As for carrying more weight than standard gauge. This is true to a point, but 90% of the freight that passes through Belarus from Russia or countries further afield gets trans shipped onto standard gauge, so weight wise, 1435 and 1520mm carries the same loads. Spain and Portugal use 1668mm Iberian gauge, the same rules apply there, freight gets trans shipped either way across the gauges and Talgo has gauge changers located all across Spain to allow seamless transition of high speed passenger trains from Spain's high speed standard gauge network onto the 1668mm Iberian gauge classic lines.
I have looked online, and nothing disputes my claim. You need to remember the Czar was an autocrat, and his word was law. I am well aware of the Talgo gauge changers, but that is not relevant to this discussion. There was talk of changing the Russian gauge to the standard European, but this was vigorously opposed by the Red Army and the Cheka on security grounds during the Russian revolution. The 6 foot gauge was short lived and only went approximately 18 km, or approx. 12 miles.
The rails in this shed are non-standard and maximum speed allowed is 20km/h.
Your correct, the gauge in the shed is 1500mm, a compromise to allow the use of both gauges wheel sets, (bogies) whilst hoisting and changing takes place.
why they are not doing a play of 1435mm inside rail/1520mm between grooves play with grooved rails with thick outside linings? the gauge change would have been faster with bogie moving locomotives then.
Erkin Alp Güney The system in place at Brest and other gauge change interfaces is the most simple way of converting one to the other. This way retains loading gauge without lateral shift. To run interlaced gauntlet track into a gauge change area would make the task more complex and time consuming. Locomotives have a fixed gauge, their wheel sets are non interchangeable due to them being traction wheels providing power and connected to drive shafts and motors.
I did not propose gauntlet tracks, but a special grooved rail with inside clearance with narrower gauge and inter-grooves clearance with broader gauge.
This is Railway!!!
Brest, Biélorussie.
Great video! How was your trip?
*TALGO - thank you so much - revolutionary technic, spanish engineering, Congrelation Your*s
an ourselves - safe time..,
Finland has the same wide gauge - Finland was a grand duchy until the revolution when the Finns declared independence.
This seams to be a common issue of compatibility with different European railway systems. How many non compatible railway standards are operating in Europe all together? It must cost them trillions of dollars every year in lost revenue and unrealized cost efficiencys.
Phillip Mulligan I think only two for intercity/international trains. In eastern Europe they have wider tracks then in western and southern Europe.
There are altogether 10 countries that don’t use the standard gauge. Portugal, Spain, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova and Russia. In Spain there are also standard gauge hst lines so its easy and stop free to go from France to Spain. Also there are Talgo train sets that actually change their gauge while moving and boogie replacements being not needed. Talgo sets just glide through a facility and carry on its journey without a stop. Spain and Russia both has such kind of carriages. Also just for interest such a boogie change (and passport control) can take over 7 hours.
great experience but I definitely grow a lot of anxiety about the video made by non-professionals
I'll take the plane - though the runway asphalt probably is different.
Ts stacja do wymiany kół w Wrześciu k./Rzeszowa
Is this reality :)
they do this with passengers inside? that's weird
You want to wait outside for 4 hours?
why not just change trains?
What's the reason? Just because that you think it's "weird" to do this with passengers inside? I don't think it's weird. For me it is much more weird to get up at 3 am, pack your shit and go outside to change trains. These operations don't stop at night fyi.
Hello!