Destiny 2 Lore - The big problem with the Vex as a faction that Bungie needs to address...
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Destiny 2's Lore and Story highlights a big problem with the Vex of a Faction. They lack characters. Villains, heroes and interesting stories that surround them are some of the driving forces for a good story in any faction. The Vex of the Black Garden and the Vault of Glass are the exceptions.
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You could say it’s a vexing problem
Stop
Bravo.
I hate this comment take the like
Ow
God why?
Maybe I'm getting fantastical, but I imagine a Vex storyline where we need to convince the Vex collective mind that WE are the beings they should align themselves with to survive, leading to a multi-faction raid in which the Vex throw us into various encounters with other solutions they have, either mighty foes or sorts of contingency plans to defeat, maybe culminating in either us fighting a Vex-simulated version of the Witness or a simulation of the Vex itself to finally prove ourselves as ultimate victors.
So basically an anthology raid? Sounds like fun. The loot could definitely be mixed and matched across different themes which sounds fun.
Asher is probably our best shot at this.
So basically "let us teach you what is to be human" raid where each part of the raid is like a test for both to show which is "better"? Now that's fascinating and the loot could be old weapons or armor, but given a pluperfect style vex overhaul design
A labyrinth would be a cool setting considering the mythological names they bear
@@Laachen maybe the encounters reference the oddysey
Whenever I think about the future of the vex in destiny, I always think back to what Calus said in the season of Opulence. “The mightiest Vex you have felled are but farmers, engineers, managers. The day they send real warriors…”
yeah. You think they missed their bus? Because it's been a hot minute, considering they can teleport...
...and time travel...
@@natem1579 it’s been a while so they’re stuck autoupdating.
@@natem1579 I jus don't think the vex views us as enough of a threat to send actual military vex after us. As far as I know the only military units the vex have sent against us was atheon an he was like...a foot soldier equivalent
@@natem1579 the easiest explanation would be that we haven't done anything that would actually impede the flower game, and that everything we HAVE done has been accounted for by these greater minds.
the vex need to update to windows 11
If we remember Calus’ words, supposedly the Vex that we have faced are the likes of Managers and gardeners, along with saying that we have yet to actually face their true warriors.
@@dropkick3024 Just a correction the portal doesn't lead to the vex homeworld it leads to a star forge that Clovis called Volantis
He was correct, but we have since faced true warrior vex, in the wyverns. And panoptes was probably the strongest vex ever created, even if his primary function was managing the infinite forest. Quoria, blade transform, was also a stupidly powerful vex when we faced her, having simulated the sword logic and being taken.
Also want to add that making powerful Minds take a lot of resources that cannot always be replaced once damaged or destroyed. Agioktes for example took a lot of effort and resources to make that they couldn’t replicate, all to kill Saint-14. And all those seasons ago with the Undying Mind.
@@dropkick3024 that wasn't a "leak" and that's not a dungeon concept. that's just a bit of lore that came with the collector's edition of WQ talking about Clovis Bray traveling through the vex portal and seeing what was on the other side.
I think Wyverns are the first true warrior frame we’ve met.
The funniest part though, is I kind of like that about the vex, they are purely mathematical in their aggression, and it's terrifying because they have no malice.
The thing that is so disturbing about them, is because they are effectively just deleting files in the universe, it's not that they hate you, it's that it's that easy for them
They are the perfect enemy. You can't really hate them, they're just annoying and they don't even care about anyone but their goals.
Precisely this, I haven't played destiny since like the taken king in destiny 1 and I the vex is the only thing I think about constantly well that ins the numerous flaws of destiny.
I've never seen the Vex as villains per se; they are more of an existential threat akin to a disease. They follow similar patterns in my eyes: a simple narrow focus on 'self' preservation, and they do that through 'mutations' (the Vex divisions). In this way I think it's better to view then as whole instead of building an identifiable villain/opponent. Let them be a force that marches on ceaselessly and let us find or make a division that changes how they interpret their goal: one where they can exist in a way but in cooperation with the rest of life.
Especially if we're taking their alleged origin from Unveiling into account, it's incredibly fitting for the Vex to be a near omnipresent background threat. Little personality, lots of perseverance, an existential threat always there, lurking in the peripheries or just out of sight even if they aren't the focus at a given moment. There's never a time when the Vex aren't a force to be concerned about, only times when they aren't the most pressing concern.
Very true.
It'd be another nail in the coffin for the story to be driven by the kind of facile stupidity present in superhero movie franchises - or the IRL nutjobs who stormed the US Cspitol...
Basically they are a force of nature.
i want that golden one.. make new wepon from his head :)úúú a laser GUN!
its like if you told an AI "survive at all costs" and then let it loose upon the universe. the vex arent evil, they arent good. for lack of a better word they are just complacent and uncaring about anything they stamp on in their quest to explore, exploit, and reproduce.
I don’t know. I personally really like that the vex are truly alien compared to all the other races. Giving them a personality or a central character that talks or makes jokes would kinda ruin that.
I'd agree with that. You can work in a sort of mild "cosmic horror marching ever onward". Basically the Necrons are a common comparison, and they have their heros too, they're just necrons with a bit of personality.
Personally I believe they are saving vex for after the light/darkness saga.
@@Masterpain33 This would be a good plan I think. Things are starting to feel like the lines are being drawn and I would be perfectly fine if they were an enigma in all of that until something like that.
I just want the black garden as a patrol zone, honestly.
Would make sense as a patrol zone for a future dlc
Using wellskate you can get to each encounter of the raid and explore solo but I agree at patrol area would be awesome
@@Skyhigh864 Final Shape?
The Vex being the ultimate causal force, and likely being the victors in the past games of the Gardener and Winnower. Making them the likely Final Shape.
@@mr.claytonbigsby4342 Ideally it would be a different part of the black garden we haven't been to before, since the area is expansive enough to warrant it. Wouldn't have people going between the patrol zone and raid that way
@@WayneRoberts72 Doubtful, this is the first stimulation based on the lore they have joined. Vex are living beings, so they could not have survived the end of the Universe else the Gardener would not have even made these new rules in the first place.
I don’t agree that they need a more human personality to be a villain, their role as the ultimate causal force is enough for me.
Agreed
Yeah! They’re a hive mind. Individuality isn’t their thing.
idk they don't seem like villains more like cockroaches.
@@Deadwarrior000 that’s the entire point
@@Johnmaloney1962 TIL some ugly insects that come out from under my fridge are a superintelligent hivemind hellbent on consuming everything in the universe and becoming the last living being
The Vex are my favorite faction for this exact reason. They are the only faction that are not at all linked to Paracausal forces. In my opinion they are the wildcard faction. They operate on logic we don’t fully understand meaning they don’t really fall neatly into the developing light vs dark dynamic. Yes some Vex calculated that joining the Witness is the best avenue for survival but others minds made different calculations or haven’t needed to make that calculation at all yet. For me that’s what keeps them interesting even without actual characters. They are their own faction not really fighting for light or dark.
Unfortunately Bungo has to consider the casual crowd when it comes to their story telling. Even in stories with hive minded robots/cyborgs, there is still a unique master that is relatable to the crowd. I.e. the Borg Queen, Star Trek Voyager or VIKI, I, Robot (2004 movie.)
If a season focusing on the Vex is going to work aside from "The Vex are causing trouble, go stop them," Bungie needs to draw upon unique characters for the Vex that break the mold of what we anticipate the Vex to be.
@@Lightna well you can. The minds can operate without any dialogue. But still assisting the guardians. Like how the first light fallen simply thanks you for freeing him. A vex mind could operate this way, similar to Rasputin
The Vex remind me of the Machines from Nier: Automata.
@@Lightna i mean we kinda already have that with Atheon and Quria, significant vex minds that pose a threat to the light (Atheon simulating the light, Quria simulating a dead solar system irl)
@@theglitchcounter264 well, something similar happened when we entered a taken infested Vault of Glass.
If you dont shoot at them at the entrance, theyll analyse for a while, then assumed an idle stance and give you uninterrupted passage. And all this while the vex never like guardians meddling with their affairs. And never coorporated with us.
And in D2 something similar happened with the friendly Vex Harpy. Sure they shot us but in was in the name of callibrated 'test', normal humans didnt get what we got.
Eventually when we found Captain Jacobson's grave the harpy leave us be. Instead of the usual youll get what you want over our dead high level mind.
And mind you, we still have been fighting Vex engineers, not their combat units. So the vex is withholding their strength in spite of our destruction against their many minds
I've been thinking this a bit honestly. They have no truly distinct entities within their ranks that have any character. I think having an explination of the Vex only really sending their foot soldiers and their processing power/officers (Minds) to the System and holding their actual Characters outside the System in the wider universe.
I have a similar theory. Mine is that there is an elaborate vex society outside of our timeline, and the tyranid-like assimilators we commonly fight are basically a brain-dead slave class, as known from the fact that we're basically only fighting their builders. I also want to see Asher return as a vex mind, he was already exposed to radiolarian fluid, so it could have acted like an innoculation of some kind, and perhaps he creates some kind of class war in vex society, creating a base for sentience in the builders and warriors to turn them against the hyper-powerful ruling class of the vex race.
What is scarier though a force like what you describe or a 100% decentralized force driven purely to survive?
The cabal and hive have leaders. A target to point at to cause more damage than usual. A head to a snake.
The Vex have no leader. The snake is not only headless *it's not even a snake to begin with*.
@@wormer104 I agree that a force entirely obsessed with it's own survival can be terrifying, but my point is that it's faceless. What I don't think the vex lack is a credible threat, what I think they do lack is depth, depth that has been given to every other faction in this universe, including the pyramids, veiled, whatever with the inclusion of the witness and the disciples, and the vex having some form of sentient, oligarchical society while exploiting the labor of their drones could have interesting implications in the universe, all while remembering that they're all literally protozoa. protozoa which have a caste system. it's perfect in my eyes. it's a reasonable curveball for the reason that we know the vex are a highly mysterious expansionist force of which we are mostly fighting builders and pioneers, what do we do when we scout planets? we send probes, then we would send automated workforce to create a beachhead for a colony, then followed by the colonists. I want to see the vex colonists.
@@flannagan3799 I think adding a personality invites too many questions. The Vex are in essence like a jellyfish only instead of some members doing one thing each member acts as a mass of brain cells slipping into the suits that specialize in one thing.
I think we're too deep lorewise to do it.
But...if a set of vex looked at the traveler and pulled a sol divisive....that would be cool.
this is a fair statement, but my conaiderations is this. does their lack of character depth, in itself, lend into story depth?
we have to someday see their combat forms, of course (though as someone not fully aware, id like to ask what the wyverns are, if not combat forms). but do we need the vex to have personalities like us? there are examples in science fiction, pitting personable people or races against perfect, logical superraces and AI. i think it would be interesting to have a race thats very lack of personality is in itself a personality. a force of nature, yet far stronger. one that shows the raw power of a logical mindset, and also forces us to figure out ways around that.
who knows, making the vex redevelop empathy and personality in themselves may be considered a regression of their species, but forcing it onto them may grant them that depth that many of us desire
it does make me think of how they treated saint 14, though. maybe there is some remnant of empathy whithin them, or we simply misread their action of entombment as a sign of respect, when it was possibly very intentional
also, the manipulations of the darkness onto vex such as in the black garden creates a potential for division, a civil war of vex vying for perfection versus those in worship
and maybe some vex may worship the light for its abilities... and join our side?
I mean by definition Vex would lack villains, heroes, or interesting characters. Their existence negates the possibility. There are now a very few examples that have isolated personalities. It would be awesome if Asher's joining with them created a Light based Vex group. I'd love to see Asher turned into a Light sub mind.
Future of the Vex is going to be split. Dark/Light/Neutral factions. The Light faction will likely be the smallest.
Mirion, the Belligerent Mind
I don't know that they would be able to cope with the incalculable actions that result from the light and dark to be able to become light.
Cool concept, but I don't want lightfall to end with the guardians banishing the witness by linking hands with all the enemy races and singing kumbaya.
@@ghoulishgoober3122 We most likely won't face the Witness until Final Shape. And think of it this way, it forces Bungie to create new enemy factions.
@@mikethehunter5212 I imagine its inevitably going to be a giant game of chess both sides playing with more or less the same pieces.
I think it's important to avoid what happened to the Borg in star trek, where in giving them a queen or something along those lines you don't lose what made them interesting in the first place
The VEX are my favorite Destiny race. I like to think of them as the antivirus of the universe. Attempting to bring the Destiny universe into order that the Traveler and Witness interrupted by becoming players in the universe
I’ve never understood how planet shaping, time travelling, unending armies having faction has not curb stomped Guardians yet. It’s canonical that they can be killed.
Plot armor and for the sake of continuing the game! You can't get money off a game if the story is done. No story = no content. This is why I like my machine race villains to be like the Reapers from Mass Effect, Borg from Star Trek, and Necrons from Warhammer. They at least have a plausible explanation of why they didn't (or in the Necron's case, haven't) won against their adversaries in their respective universes. Vex though, they're literally just there for the sake of a new faction to fight
We simply aren’t something their really concerned with is all
In the lore its basically suggested that we aren't deemed enough of a threat to them for them to send anything really big by their standards at us. According to Calus the Vex we fight are akin to workers, frames not built for combat.
The Vex are so dangerous because they can use algorithms predict how a faction or even an individual will act and what action they themselves can take to counter it. However part of the reason we are able to win against the Vex so often is because these algorithms rely on the subject doing things like obeying the laws of physics, and thanks to our space magic we don't. As a result the Vex have a hard time properly predicting Guardians and other entities that can bring rule bending powers to the table (like the hive).
In short, the Vex are shit at dealing with magic.
@@BigJubble Remember when Crota fucked up and allowed the Vex to enter Oryx’s throne world? They damn near beat his ass too lol
The vex can’t get a read off of lightbarers. That’s why they can’t beat us. Out of everything in cosmos, only things with Light are the ones can’t understand. It’s actually in the lore. Myelin Games has videos on it.
I feel like it’s because every time we see them, they get stomped. I want the cold atrocities that led to Elsie calling the vex, “evil so dark, it despises other evil.”
"every time we see them, they get stomped"
you can make that argument with literally every enemy race.
@@bruteunicorn1345 The Red Legion had us on our knees! The hive took the moon and basically kept it. The Scorn, including Uldren, killed a skilled guardian. I want to see the vex do more than turn out the lights, and that wasn’t even technically the vex that made the endless night.
Whenever we see them in game, they’re getting their asses kicked by all the other races if not us. There’s a strike where the vex are infected by the taken, a strike where a psion is taking over their network, and a strike where they’re prisoners to the awoken. In beyond light, eramis’s goons took over the vex and we kill them in an Empire Hunt. They get stomped more than the others and they were supposed to be the biggest threat before the witness decided he would have other races do his bidding.
@@bruteunicorn1345 ehhhhh not really considering the other races have consistently kicked our ass since the red war
Not to say we have kick theirs because we have but they’ve won wars whilst we won battles. After the Red War, we’ve been on a consistent lose streak. Again, yes, we’ve WON battles but we sure as hell haven’t wont the overarching war behind them.
Season of the splicer? Stopped Vex from fucking the city and ended the endless night. But we still didn’t stop Savathun’s plans, Osiris was revealed to be a fake since Season of the Hunt, Savathun got a whole lotta info from us and Ikora, etc etc
@@jason5123 invaders win if they take the defender’s holdings. Defenders win if they keep their holdings. The city hasn’t fallen since the red war. Every season we stomp our enemies with zero effort. Other than red war, we’ve never really lost anything.
@@bruteunicorn1345 that’s inherently wrong
At every cross and turn we’ve won BATTLES and victories yes, but we haven’t actually won and solved the main overarching problem. Last big victory was stopping Savathun from taking the Traveller and hiding it from the Witness.
The Vex are very interesting because I personally believe that they don't need many "characters" to actually make good stories. Star Trek has made very good stories related to the Borg, and the Vex already have a leg up over the Borg by giving them Minds and Axis Minds at the start.
Quria was an opportunity to have a Vex Mind with some semblance of personality, but obviously Splicer cut its life too short. Should it return with its data intact though, I could see a reborn Quria as a potential character, as it's not exactly aligned with the Network entirely.
Next are obviously the converted. Kabr shows a weird case of conversion where they're kinda... half and half. It's strange but that could lead to something. Probably not much since the Vex Network holds the ultimate reign over individual units. Those white eyed Vex emphasized in Aspect and via the friendly Harpies are probably a lot more sinister in design than we would at first think.
We could pull a Seven of Nine and pry a Vex from the Network, as that would give us a truly unique unit that does not have to follow the path of Convergence.
The Vex probably won't give us much malice or outwardly antagonistic aspects, as the Winnower, the Witness, and every other villain does, but they can absolutely give us a simple, yet effective, cold and calculating presence. Alien, but horrifyingly so, like they are in the lore.
With the Light and Dark Saga coming to a close, it means that the lives of the Gardener and Winnower, and their most powerful prophets and delegates, would possibly close with it. We can hurt the Vex. We have hurt them. But the Darkness could've ended them, and we're about to stop the Pyramids. So, once they're all gone or otherwise defeated... Convergence becomes so much easier.
Oh, and there's also the First Program mentioned in the Deep Conversation Adventure on Nessus. We don't know anything about it. Perhaps the original Vex Mind, perhaps the first action of the Vex as a whole.
We don't need to relate to them, we don't even need to empathize or sympathize. Sometimes, all that's needed is simplicity.
I was thinking something similar with the Borg references. Whether we disconnect some Vex from the collective or find a queen bee style character like the one in First Contact. Since there are different factions of Vex with different goals or at least different strategies of reaching the goal, maybe a bit of a civil war of some kind or a rouge faction.
i also feel the vex have so much untapped potential. it seems like theres a lot of mystique going on behind the scenes and i do hope bungie has actual answers and not just weird coincidences.
the connections to the vex homeworld, the black garden having heavy parallels with the original garden, the fact that the vex sing and pretty much all the weirdness going on with the new sol divisive, the teases that happened in undying. the fact that the vex are the original final shape should already give us some interesting storymaterial from the light and dark perspective
I always expected Bungie to go with the route of writing that the Vex are a program gone rogue, that they were once terraformers and now only desire Convergence. I mainly always thought this due to the fact that the vex are always linked to two things in the design of their structures. Flora and other vegetation, and Stone. Two elements that wouldn't seem to fit when it comes to a mechanical machine Intelligence that desires Convergence.
I would potentially take the Vex the route of the Necrons from Warhammer 40k.
What would be interesting if they had leaders which weren’t Vex or were hyper intelligent AI warlords with personalities.
Asher or someone else being a silent king esk figure for the vex would be cool
Maybe a faction of Vex simulates an Exo since didn't Clovis Bray have an involvement with the Vex in creating the Exos?
Maybe they simulate Lakshmi-2, an exo that accidentally summoned the Vex in the Season of the Splicer.
The Vex are the only true aliens in Destiny, you would be ruining what makes them unique if this happened.
You could replace the Hive, Cabal and Fallen with humans and not have anything change and write off any differences as cultural differences. At their core, the Hive, Cabal and Fallen are no different mentally than humans are. That’s boring and cheap.
If we ever encounter aliens, the likelihood of them basically being no different mentally than humans is nearly impossible.
The Vex are aliens and they act in ways that are alien to us and that’s what’s compelling about them.
When people say give the Vex “personalities”, what they actually mean is give them human personalities and that’s shitty Star Trek nonsense.
It would still be the same issue, fluff wise the Necrons are the most advanced species that does not rely on the Warp, the Vex fall in the same category (if you equate the Warp with Paracausality). The are (at least ) a level 2 species on the Kardashev scale, wiping out Earth should be as easy as lighting a match for them.
Bungie has to decide what powerlevel they actually posses, otherwise any further Vex-centric storyline turns into another turkey shot for us.
@@randomguy4167 Their existence presents a problem that has to be solved, which is their involvement with the story. The whole light and dark debacle will end soon enough and the Vex must be incorporated into the story in a meaningful way, else they're just fodder enemy for times when the writers don't feel like involving any other species. It would be a crime to waste easily the most interesting faction like this.
Haven’t watched through all of this, but getting back into the separate FACTIONS of the Vex, would be good ground to get back into again. It does feel like this will become a necessary lore/story beat moving forward.
Because how do you have, what is supposed to be, a singular consciousness/mind, WHY do we have separate sub minds making choices?
all other races have different enemy factions, fallen houses, cabal loyalists and caitals warriors, hive armies under each hive god. vex kinda have this in different time vexes, such as decendant and predecessors (the new shiny ones and dirty green ones), but they arent that much different
@Ruska the idea of an algorithm being what’s behind it makes the most sense. I know the Vex are truly microorganisms in the Radiolaria, not the machines themselves, but if they are driven by a computational logic, not any paracausality, that does drive the argument there.
It also does pose another question of what drives these Minds. Do the Vex within the fluid of these Minds represent one consciousness or are there dominant Vex within the fluid “system” that have established some level of hierarchy?
@@Emrirwastaken Totally follow the system you’re pointing to that Bungie set us up with, but because the Vex are all supposed to be one consciousness that simultaneously exists across all space and time, that’s where it gets tricky to me.
@@pimpernel666 the vex are the Pattern that always won the flower game that the Gardener and Winnower played. They are that pattern’s form except when they played the game there was no paracausality to account for. Which is the only reason that the vex haven’t completely taken over everything yet.
Despite the Vex being a collective consciousness, it's not unreasonable for there to be distinct factions based on their function or intended goal.
In some ways, I compare the Vex to the Borg Collective from Star Trek. The Borg have different Unimatrixes, Matrixes, and Sub-Matrixes that create the collective whole. Each drone is given a designation within their function (like Three of Five or Seven of Nine).
The Vex are also (to this day) the faction we really know the least about compared to the others (Black Fleet not withstanding).
Even though we have fought them all this time, what do we REALLY know about them?
I feel like bungie have further stepped away from the idea of giving the vex subminds different personalities, or functions, because in the last few seasons they use the basic vex submind appearance for every single vex. They even changed how the harpy’s and goblins originally looked in VOG, removing their white stripes. The fallen have this same issue. They all wear the same attire, purple and blue, no matter their faction. When I heard we’d be fighting the house of devils in the Zavala sever missions, I got excited… but low behold they used the regular fallen skin for all of the grunt enemies. Same for the cabal… they all use the red war skins, even though most of the cabal we fight don’t align with the red legion anymore. I wish Bungie would invest some money into evolving the look of our enemies, because they’ve look the same since the start of D2, which came out in 2017. Pretty ridiculous.
Yeah I wish they did this
The Fallen on Europa look completely different tho? Their attire is white and grey, and they use the armor models from Destiny 1 instead of Destiny 2. Ever since Shadowkeep we’ve been getting more unique designs for our enemies. But I do see what you’re saying.
Don't forget we just had an entire season with the Loyalists designs for the Cabal and last season saw the introduction of a new purple faction of Scorn and blue faction of Hive. That said the signs are all there that Bungie are effectively trimming down the enemy races into two separate factions each in preparation for the Final Shape, my personal theory being that we see one faction of each (obviously besides the Taken) siding with the Light (Lucent Brood, Cabal Ascendancy, House Light, perhaps Fanatic's Scorn?) and one each siding with the Darkness (Xivu's Brood, Loyalists/Red Legion, House Salvation, Witness's Scorn)
Yeah it is ridiculous considering In destiny 1 every faction had multiple sub factions with different colors.
I just want some of the older cabal designs to be brought back since they look cooler imo. I hope for an upcoming season or something there would be a new legion we’ve never seen before introduced that has the older designs.
I wonder if Asher's nature as a paracausal being bonds with the Vex, perhaps he can paracausally bestow genuine sapience and personality on them, causing their Axis Minds to develop into more personable entities.
Shepard commander
I've had my heart broken like this before. Not ready for it again.
Do we really want ASHER bestowing personality though?!? I think I would prefer them to be mindless ;D
@@paulkocherhans608 Asherious, Irate Mind has no limit to his power
@@goddenbi I miss Legion 😭😭
Asher the Irate Mind
I’m split on the idea that the Vex need a voice. While in terms of lore The Witness is the most “Eldritch”, the Vex fit the definition better, and I kind of prefer it that way. But if the Vex had a few figures with defined personalities like the Necrons from Warhammer 40k, they would have more potential for stories to be told.
If they give them a voice do it the same way the leviathan from mass effect was handled. Link up with a vex mind and rather than giving it a voice directly the mind is given voice by your memories and the people in them. This being the only way vex talk to you would sell how completely alien they are.
The Vex have a unique relation to the Darkness/Witness. I read somewhere the Vex only worshipped the Black Heart after learning the new rules for gaining power when they attempted to invade Oryx's Throneworld, and tried to exploit that. And that the Vex strive for a world that has no Light or Darkness from the simulations with Penoptes, which I imagine implies they are striving to become like a third force, stronger than the Gardener and the Winnower in attempts to ensure its own existence? The Witness seems to acknowledge the Vex's goals, or at least their lack of sentience, if you look back to Season of Arrivals. It shows statues of humans, Hive, Cabal, and Fallen looking up to a pyramid ship, but no statues of Vex. I'm not sure if the Witness is disbarring the Vex from the alliance it's forming with the Scorn and the Hive, or it simply can't reach out to the Vex because it's run by algorithms.
The Sol Divisive are not related to Quria's faction. Quria's invasion is not related to the Black Garden.
Something I never see anyone talk about it how the vex of the infinite forest had found a future void of life without light or darkness. Could the vex know a way to beat the witness?
I’ve been thinking that when the Witness arrives, a single Vex mind will realize how utterly powerless they are and side with the City, if only to maximize their odds of survival. In this way, with the Lucent Brood, we’d have a small portion of each of Destiny’s original four enemy races as allies.
Yeah. Maybe it could even permit some special new classifications. Perhaps...Rebooted Vex? I mean it would make a LOT of sense. And their architecture could look pretty badass if it's done in a controlled manner, and permits the fabrication of new armor and armaments that are holy to their cause.
No, not likely, not likely at all, this is destiny 2, not some sort of dream making machine, and bungie will hardly listen to us.
@@scott-gaming.8834 we got allied eliksni. So they have listened in some ways
Harpy Asher can probably help with this.
The Vex have a unique combination of being so large, so incredibly "other", and so far removed from the other factions that it's really concerning. Add to that that the Vex were completely absent from the Witness's tapestry at the end of Shadowkeep, where it showed us humanity, the Fallen, the Cabal, and the Hive squaring up under a pyramid. We've seen those other factions come together, but the Vex are still absent.
I dont think it would be impossible for us to actually deal with the Witness in Lightfall, and for the Vex to somehow gain an advantage from that exchange. I don't think it's impossible that the Vex may BE the Final Shape when the time comes, and dealing with whatever they become could be like an epilogue in the story of Light vs Darkness.
I have always found the Vex to be supper interesting as lore-wise and aesthetics. I would love a whole expansion with Vex characters
PERSONELY,I have always loved the vex above all the other factions BECAUSE they aren't the stereotypical mustache twirling "I am gong to win so submit" villain AND because they are alien even when compared to the other races. They are cold and calculating and I find that terrifying and interesting. All the other enemies in destiny(Yes not even the witness and its disciples) haven't even come close to peeking my interest and made me genuinely concerned(if not afraid).
They do not see the need for art, communication or many other things found in civilizations...and THAT is why I love them, because they're so different.
I would love to have an offshoot of Vex that starts working cooperatively with us, but for reasons we can't explain. They don't communicate the way we do, and we obviously can't get any info out of a random goblin, so the mystery becomes trying to discern their intentions, and even how much force they have backing them.
Imagine that Goblins start showing up on the outskirts of the city or in less defended Places of Interest, but instead of an invading force, it's one or two units just cleaning/repairing random things and then leaving by sunrise, and steadily more non-combatants start showing up and performing random repairs, and even defending humans from small attacks to the point where some even start to trust them.
I'd love to hear Mithrax's thoughts on potentially accepting a faction of Vex after the City's eventual acceptance of the Eliksni, especially since the circumstances are very different. After all, are they REALLY disconnected from the rest of the collective?
There are plenty of possible motivations. Are they being controlled by a secret ally like Asher Mir? Are they being sent as spies by The Witness, or as a contingent against him in case he loses? Are they fully severed from the Collective and acting independently (and was it The Light that did it?) or are they just on an exploratory mission from the whole, probing for weaknesses? Are they 100% genuine in their attempts to make contact? Is it an attempt to trick the Traveler into granting them The Light? Bungie could really take it in whatever direction they wanted, and make it a real mystery.
That sounds like a trojan horse waiting to happen, if they were to be unwillingly reconnected the the greater hive mind i can see that turning into a sudden war on two fronts as a pyramid ship suddenly appears in earths orbit
I vastly prefer this idea to simply slotting in heroes and villains as Boyd suggests. Creating factions of Vex and having lore about struggles between factions would maintain the truly alien nature of the Vex while also making them much more interesting. More specifically in relation to the good faction of Vex you talk about, I would argue that it is easily possible within the current lore. I like the idea of a submind, or even a mind on the level of Archeon being tasked with worshipping the light to see if they can’t acquire the power of the light in a similar manner to the Garden. In an inverse to the traditional trope of the hero being corrupted by evil, this Vex mind is “corrupted” by the light, seeing cooperation, not extermination as the best way forward for the Vex.
My lord, imagine if Durandal manages to cameo his way into a Vex Mind. "Survive past the heat death of the universe" is his main goal after all.
IT ALL RETURNS TO MARATHON BITCHES
I would personally love to see a sect of vex that chose the light in the same way the sol divisive chose the darkness. There must be at least ONE mind that has at least considered worshiping the traveler. Especially considering the traveler seems to be mechanical in nature. We could even have the two sects of vex clash.
imagine the traveler creates vex guardians that we fight along side with in the final battle.
I feel like Vex Mythoclast suggests this to a certain degree. There's the angle that the Vex designed the weapon for lightbearerds to wield so they could aggregate battle data on how they fight without having to waste units against them. I personally like the angle that, somewhere in the future, a Vex Mind came to the conclusion that the working for the Traveler would give them the best shot at being the last beings standing, and as a stepping stone of good faith, gave Humanity Vex weapons in order to show that they are on the same side.
@@slayinderp7501 or perhaps a vex mind that began to disconnect from the main network, and eventually have its mind fully erased. Where now that it's out of the simulation completely, it sees the traveler and is, I'm not joking here, FUCKING ILLUMINATED BY A BEAM OF LIGHT DIRECTLY INTO ITS EYE, which begins to form a sort of link for the traveler to instill a new purpose into it. One that is aligned not to the guardians, but focused on the light. And as we now know, the light isnt purely good. Its truly twilight. And the darkness, can truly be dusk. I know that's odd terminology, but the hive have the Lucent brood. That's twilight guardians. And we have guardians of the city who wield stasis. That's darkness. But we use it to protect the light. So, in a way, it becomes more like Dusk. Blur the lines of what we expect. I feel the final class will be the balance between darkness and light. We have our current colors. Orange, purple, cyan, navy, and green. What is absent? What would perfectly fit the balance of darkness and light? I believe it will be some sort of silver colored power. Imbuing the two forces into something new. Something that doesnt function so much as magic, as it does more as technological enhancement to ourselves. Using techno wizardry with machinery to synthesize ammunition, create steel barricades, impale foes, and launch maces that rain down onto the battlefield. Not sure what to name this concept however. Perhaps, Synthesis.
There was a Nessus mission where the Vex told Ghost "Welcome home." I still think about that.
The future I see for them comes from the parts of Clovis Bray's journal talking about Maya Sundaresh. He was infected with Vex and began to hallucinate Sundaresh's presence as a key member of his team. The Sundaresh he saw was one of the copies of her the Vex simulated with changes made to it so that it was Vex. It was one of the few (possibly the only?) time that we've actually heard the Vex speak. Similar things could work in the future if you wanted actual characters from them.
Everything about the Vex from that book was really cool. I remember the fake Sundaresh saying something to the effect of Vex not being what something was but a description of what something did. The Vex spread themselves by cracking the ice of Europa in a specific pattern and by manipulating radio static to carry the same pattern. Because those patterns did Vex things, they were themselves Vex. Really cool and horrifying stuff.
I would like to see something along the lines of the Geth from the Mass Effect games where a large majority of them are corrupted, mindless machines like the ones who followed the reapers but some of them were able to rebel and fight off the indoctrination with those ones deciding to actually help in humanity’s fight for survival, the geth and vex are actually very similar in that they are a hive mind of highly intelligent and calculating machines so I think it’s possible that just like in Mass Effect there could be a small group of vex that splinter off because they hold different ideals and views than the rest and this group unlike the vex might see the darkness as a threat and humanity an ally.
I've long believed that Bungie was inspired by Mass Effect when they created the Vex. Like the Geth, they're one-eyed cybernetic lifeforms with white circulatory fluids, curved head plating, networked intelligence, and communicate in Dubstep noises. Too much overlap to be a coincidence.
"who are you" "we are vex"
'Commander Zavala, does this unit have a soul?'
@@dodogamusghaul still hurts.
personally I really like the inhuman design of the vex. One of the biggest letdowns for me personally is that the darkness has a figurehead, the witness. I personally really appreciate the feeling of having a faceless and mysterious evil, like the vex are, like the darkness was.
To be fair, the witness isn’t the figurehead of the darkness, he just uses it. We won’t see the actual darkness until the final shape most likely
Rhulk or calus says that the witness is only using the darkness as a cloak we still haven’t seen darkness itself yet
@@novi-destiny2121 regardless, I’d prefer it if the witness had a less humanoid design.
@@Amexel he is also formless, which is why he appeared to us in shadow keep as ourself, he changed his form to fit whatever Situation, so if I had to guess he will have a different form when we fight him
@@novi-destiny2121 well maybe they could have made him a bit more formlessy. sure he adapts his physical shape, but it doesn't change that his neutral form just doesn't look that fitting imo.
Honestly, despite the overwhelming odds, I think it'd be incredible if Rasputin somehow took control of the entirety of the Vex and allied them with us in our fight against the Witness. If not Rasputin, maybe Asher Mir, who knows?
Considering as how many have said the vex span multiple realities, I think maybe taking over around a good fraction of this faction (As I wrote this I just liked how it kinda rhymed) in this reality may be more plausible.
The AI Warmind hijacks the Vex and forces them to ally with the Light? This is an idea I can get behind.
When it comes to writing the Vex, you have to treat it like you would any force of nature. Zombies would be the closest example. I don’t think they need a leader.
One of my favorite analogies for Cosmicism is from Animorphs, where the narrator compared fighting higher-dimensional beings as "an ant on a chessboard". We're the ant, gazing up at indistinct giants randomly slamming pieces down around us. But to the chessmasters, every piece moved is following patterns and tactics.
We cannot understand the Vex because they exist at a level beyond individual consciousness, and experience time nonlinearly. Or as the Reapers put it in Mass Effect: "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even fathom it."
Id like to see the vex generate a villain like the gravemind from halo. Its a bad dude that needs to go, but will work with you when it has to, and will betray you once you're no longer useful. I really liked how it would talk to you through all of the nearby flood
The vex are so interesting, yet the most under-used (in my opinion) faction in the game right now. I would be FAR more motivated to keep up with destiny if we explored the vex more. I REALLY hope they have a more involved part of the story as we approach lightfall and the final battle with the witness. (whether they be an unexpected ally or separate "third party" that gets involved as we fight between the darkness's final shape, the vex's goal of eternal survival, or humans/allys fight for survival and against the darkness)
Byf: What if we get a sort of Overmind?
Me: Timestalker of the Vex. The Overmind Minotaur.
Drifter said it best when he said... When you kill a Vex have you truly killed it? Or does it get rebuilt?
Osiris also had a great point about them... The Vex are the most dangerous foe because they do not tire like everyone else.
Finally Drifter again said the Vex we fought are only scouts and engineers the real war units we have yet to see.... Scary stuff
All that I love the fact they are an ambiguous faceless foe. To me that makes them more scary and dangerous like the Borg before they introduced the queen. They are so logical and direct yet have abilities that baffle even us without a central figure to guide them. As good as that sounds to me I recognize the pitfall that brings to the story which sets itself up to be an endless fight with a faceless foe. Bungie needs to do this carefully.
i believe the wyverns are supposed to be the warrior vex, though maybe they are the bottom of the ladder of vex warriors
I hope the splicers have a part in it. In several lore tabs it’s shown that the splicers are just as effective fighting the vex, and they can do things like erase knowledge from the vex collective when they erased eido from the vex archives
@@thefatherinthecave943 I'll go one further than that... I hope we get to go back in the Vex Network... And maybe that is how we get to places like the Volantis Forge Star and their other strongholds.
I saved this comment disproving the existence of combat units.
"The Vex do have a fighting force"
"They likely do not."
"We've already attacked, raided, and totally disrupted their most important and sacred placed, the very heart of their biggest network nodes: The Black Garden, the Vault of Glass, the Pyramidion, The Infinite Forest. We've destroyed (over and over) their most powerful network minds: The Sol Progeny, Atheon, Brakion, Argos, Protheon. We kill Dendron: Root mind over an infinite number of times. We did the same with the Nexus Mind and Restorative Mind."
"If they had anything else besides what we've seen, they would have used them by now."
"If they were going to build superior frames in response to us, we would have already seen them, as the past and the future co-mingle with the Vex"
"But we've seen the Descendant Vex. Other than the Overload and Barrier Champions, they haven't produced anything more dangerous than what we've seen."
Btw there was comment responding to this one with another good insight.
"Yeah. The Vex have been in our solar system since long before the collapse. Probably longer than human society, what with Venus."
"And the Black Garden? It's not even in our system. It's a home base for a faction of the Vex, probably THE original home base. It's not waiting for an armada to arrive or anything."
Side Note, due to the vex never encountering anything they couldn't simulate and overcome, they had no need for combat units.
Edit
Forgot to mention, due to the hacking we did in splicer, the vex network suffered a massive security breach that they likely never dealt with before and it's unlikely they wouldn't be working on ways to assure that won't happen again. 2nd, due to Quria attempting to destroy humanity with the endless night on Savathuns orders, it makes no sense for it not to bring in the absolute best units the vext have access to, further disproving the existence of combat units.
I think a some ways to make the Vex more horrifying would be:
Introducing new Vex enemies that aren’t to different from what we have, maybe even just reskins, *but they are of visibly different species.*
Have some actual conversations with Vex and give them an overarching personality that none of the lesser Vex are allowed to deviate from, have them question why other species desire free will, or better yet have them manipulate the characters into questioning themselves, sorta like Johan Liebert from Monster.
Show their methods in full scale, system-sized ships eating planets with people on them just to turn them into resources and other Vex even though they have more than enough.
Show a Vex mind and how it thinks, a personality, but it isn’t allowed to be too different, and the only important goal can only ever be the advancement of its race, no matter how advanced it already is or how much it already has.
Remember when Cabal were the "forgotten race" in D1?
I distinctly do which is the funny part, I remember having the same feeling about the vex I did with the cabal
Out of the bunch, the Vex are definitely my personal favorite faction, although they are sorely lacking in terms of characterization. I think that if Bungie wants to make sure the Vex remain compelling, they need to venture into interactions with them we haven't seen before. Way back in season of opulence, Calus said that thus far, we have only faced and fought their equivalent to farmers. If that is so, I think It's about time we really met some of the Vex that are really running the show. Not only that, we need to understand their personal motivations. We get what they are in a broad sense, but that alone isn't really enough for us to understand what their real drive is to do what they do. Survival, sure, but that really can't be all they need or want.
Wyverns were the first combat units we see
Quira was the best shot they had at making the Vex feel more than just being robots... and they decided to use her for a seasonal questline story mission ending. Knowing she was written back in TTK, we won't get anything this close anytime soon.
Just the fact it was understanding and functioning semi individually from the vex was fascinating and I hope it's explored more as thier pathways narrow
While I think there is room for the Vex to develop 'characters/villains', I think their strong suit is being completely alien to us, or if not strong suit simply what makes them stand-out from the other races in a way that's needed.
Character-based ideas:
A. The converted: Stories focused on or lead by former allies/humans that have become Vex. As Byf mentioned there has been lots of setup for this and definitely should be explored.
B. The isolated/expunged: The Vex in many ways are basically just the Geth from Mass-Effect, so it stands to reason the best or only logical way to create a Vex character is to have a Vex Mind that is disconnected or isolated from the larger network (like Legion from ME2). I think a Taken Vex would work best for this, but I could see any number of reasons/ways a Vex could be isolated from the rest.
My ideas/hopes/suggestions for the Vex.
1. Time travel device: TLDR, think season of the Dawn, we went back and saw Saint in thr past and inspired him to become the Legendary warrior we know today.
I think rather than focusing on characters/villains, the Vex could be the catalyst for stories about the past. Aka we learn they try to change the events we only know about in-lore, go back in time and stop em whole witnissing said events from the distance/shadows.
2. Post Light/Dark: Vanilla D1 really built the Vex up as the 'real' threat. I think a great pay-off to that story would be the idea that the Vex have been either biding their time, or working behind the scenes to ensure the course of events in the story up until this point. To basically say this entire cosmic war of good vs evil was secretly orchestrated by another force to their own benefit is the best way to make said enemy seem even more threatening without relying on them being physically/magically 'more powerful'. Once the Witness is gone we finally see the first signs of a true Vex armada, and learn that they truly were an evil so great they orchestrated the demise of all other evil in the universe.
Iirc, the Drifter has a recent line in Gambit where he mentions the different Vex subtypes starting to come together lately. It seems that they already are starting to pool their resources.
That said, I'm sort of against the idea of having a singular Vex mind being in control. I think them being a collective that is focused solely on converting the universe makes them more interesting as a faction. I don't want every alien faction to be "humanized".
Personally, i think that it'd be cool if some of the vex change to the descendant vex after lightfall. Not only would it bring something different to the vex, it would also serve as a warning sign, showing that the end is near.
That would be awesome and terrifying
What if they turned into Precursor Vex though? It would mean its only just the beginning..
@@francisharkins well, thats a cool idea, but we saw in curse of osiris that precurser vex were a thing a long time ago, back when the vex first arrived on murcury, so that wouldn't really make sense. But it would still be cool because the design for precursers and descendants are tied for first place for my favorite type of vex.
I just want more vex in the story. They're the most interesting imo and I don't like that they've been sidelined for quite some time now. Yeah, it makes more sense that the story would lean toward the factions we can actually communicate with, but it's almost like they're a non-issue, despite being one of the most incomprehensibly advanced, and powerful, species.
I like their unknowableness, the Vex are true wildcards and could ultimately end up on either side of the war or neither. The fact that they don't or can't produce personalities is what makes them so unsettling.
I've been theorizing that there's a civil war going on in the Black Garden, with Asher Mir at the center of it. Asher becomes The Light Mind or something, and his Vex forces are currently waging war in the Black Garden against any that would align with the Darkness
The idea of the Vex assimilating together is plausible since keep in mind places like Nessus and Europa (via Glassway) are still giant mystery boxes worth of potential.
I for one hope we see something like En-Voy, the Diplomatic Mind. Clearly that’s a concept the Vex could in some way understand. Diplomacy might not always be purely logical but it IS causal. Even if an alliance is out of the question, a non-aggression pact would reduce the number of variables the Vex would have to consider, at least in the short term.
Asher will probably help.
This wasn't a problem in the early days of Destiny when all of the enemy races were just 'lol aliens, big ones, 4-armed ones, robots, and zombies!!!!' But as the franchise has gone on and the storytelling has improved, the other races have all gotten a lot more personality, history, and interesting characters, and the Vex have just been left behind in this regard.
Really, they are more like a plot device than anything else. They exist as a sort of 'force of nature' which prompts other things to happen (see a lot of the Clovis Bray stuff in Beyond Light). I actually think this is fine for the most part- if they can drive other stories by being a sort of elemental force, even if there's no personality behind it, that serves a purpose in the story and can help flesh out other characters.
That's not to say I wouldn't like to see them get some cool named characters as well. I mean, we had Quria, but that was about it..
Personally when it comes to vex ive always hoped for the small chance that a minor submind makes the calculation that humanity and the light are the best chance for them, since they continue to prevail against the darkness over and over, something akin to the opposite of the divisive that chose to worship the darkness. I know its very unlikely and would run into the same personality issues that the vex have always had, but ive always daydreamed that years and years and years down the road, when or if we get a destiny 3, we could choose not only between awoken, exo, and human, but also between a vandal/captain for the house of light, or a centurion of Caiatl’s cabal, maybe a knight or acolyte of a reformed and adjusted lucent brood, and maybe even a goblin of a submind of vex who made the calculated choice to ally with the alliance of light. I have no clue if its possible or if it could even work, but its one of my absolute favorite things to daydream about how it could come to be or what it would look like when it comes to destiny lore.
ngl it'd be pretty funny if this light mind just doesnt talk and just comes in to help seemingly whenever it feels like it
YES PLEASE. Getting to play as a vex hobgoblin or minotaur would be badass. Especially if ranks would be able to fit certain classes. I.E, Cabal Psions, Eliksni Captains, Krill Wizard/Witches and Vex Hobgoblins as warlocks, some new type of special operations smaller cabal unit, eliksni dreg, vex goblin and Krill Acolytes as hunters, and Cabal Phalanx, Krill Knights, Vex Minotaurs and Eliksni Vandals as Titans. That would just be even more badass. Along with certain new gameplay styles. Or, generally you could make your own subtype of each species.
It would depend on the Vex’s true end goal. Is it to assimilate all existence or survive until the end of time. If it is to survive, then it is possible for the Vex to align with the Light calculating that co-operation has better odds of survival then fighting everyone else.
you said the magic word...'Overmind'. Any other StarCraft players out there remember the Overmind, and that made for a decent villain with a single directive and could contrast pretty well with a friendly Asher Mir led vex faction. I've really liked that each race in Destiny over the last year has a friendly and an aggressive faction...gives me hope for Eliksni guardians one day too!
It just occurred to me that the "vex milk" and "egregore" are very similar in function... coincidence?
Would love to see a Vex Ultron type character we interact with down the line. Maybe the Vex pull a Caiatl and calculate that the best option for survival is to cooperate with us to defeat the Witness
The way I have been viewing the upcoming war going, he have The Light (humanity/awoken, eliksni and cabal), and The Darkness (hive, taken, scorn). The Vex however always felt like they never belonged entirely to either side, they were only out for themselves (at least from my perspective on the lore), so I'm not sure what the plan is for them or where they can go, but I do hope something comes of them soon even though they have a very rough time giving them a compelling motive.
They kinda have solved this problem in lore at least. Simulations of characters like Maya Sunderesh in Clovis journals would make great villains. She was genuinely unsettling in that story, and was the product of a vex information virus. If they deploy that against current humanity, you have a tonne you can draw on. The Ishtar researches like Maya, but also Praydeth. These simulations aren't anything we can directly fight, similar to a villain like uldren, or in particular, the nightmares from this season.
Really hope they do something with the Ishtar team, possibly one of my favorite stories in the lore
iirc Future War Cult is related to them
@@okkoheinio5139 fwc doesn't exist anymore
the Vex genuinely terrify me. I've said it many times, and probably in the comments of other videos of yours. I am scared of what a full on Vex invasion would look like. If the Sol Directive convince the other factions that guardians, and humanity needs to die, we would be screwed paracausal abilities or not. The Witness so far hasn't held a candle to how scary the Vex are. I'm not scared of the Witness, we've killed Rhulk, we've killed wish dragons. We cannot kill something that completely controls time. The only reason we were able to do anything within the Vault of Glass is because one of the original fireteam members sacrificed themself to become the relic we use in many of the encounters to help get light into the vault.
If the vex actually come after us, or if we decide to fight the Vex head on in their turf, we stand no chance.
They could only do that within the VoG and the Infinite forest which we destroyed already and in the latter case we dealt with the mind that would have done it.
Your also underesiting the witness. It won in the dark future and the vex clearly had nothing on it and the forces of darkness iirc.
Another note is the fact a guardian was able to stop the VoGs power using themselves. If one guardian can do it others can.
The Vex might be the main villains of the next story arc after final shape, since the Wyverns are the only combat vex frames we've seen, every other vex we've encountered is either a mind or a worker frame.
so a few thoughts on the vex, i remember a mission where they release communication from Praedyth because they needed help in the future because of the Taken overwhelming them and they used him to send us there. so maybe we will have a submind ask for our aid as a unified mind is taking over the vex network for the witness. I think that would be a cool way for their story to go. Especially if in like lightfall the submind found out a secret of the witness that doesn't aligned with them or ensures their destruction.
I’m glad your finally talking about this, can’t believe how minor the vex have become since the beginning of Destiny :/
My hope is the Witness scoops them back up and puts them too work against us, most likely in a season where we along with Ana, Elsie, Mithrax, and a reluctant Clovis help us get Rasputin into his Exo body and up and running, while also maybe Eramis coming back as a new disciple of the Witness maybe even leading the vex forces on Europa!
And yes if you can’t tell from the mass of text above I’ve put a lot of thought and time into this ideal season
My newborn child's first words
Greetings Guardians My name is Byf
From what i've heard, we've only fought the vex equivalent of average construction workers, miners with guns.
I'm both looking forward to and dreading to see them sending out their dedicated warriors, elite forces, generals, and highest ranked leader units...
Hey Byf, first just wanna say thank you so very much for your content, I thoroughly enjoy it!
After hearing you compare the vex to the reapers from Mass Effect, I thought of again what I have before which is the comparison between the Vex and the Geth. So I typed “vex vs. geth” into the search bar here but after scrolling for a little I didn’t find anything.
While we’re in a bit of an off time with Destiny and you said you’re trying to put out some content while working on the Zavala video, I wonder if this concept is of any interest to you. I for one would love it!
Thank you for your consideration!
The vex are my favorite race in Destiny
I'd love to see some of their higher level entities (with a well developed society)
imagine if the inside of the Traveler is filled with 'Lightblessed' vex, with a well developed society
or maybe in the vex network (in order to simulate better) the higher level vex have well developed minds (each with distinct focuses), like a deliberating vex subtype (one with the sole purpose of arguing with other members of the subtype, and that leads them to become divisive individually, like the Sol Divisive was collectively) some, like the Nine did/do, could ally with us
other thoughts: well, vex are somewhat mythological (names like minotaur or harpy, and goblin or wyvern, and even Panoptes (Argus)), and they respect beings like Saint for their combat prowess. What if there were vex that had risen beyond just simple minds (free vex) that act on their own, and have become mythological figures to the Vex themselves. This could allow villains and heros if these superminds take control of other, weaker vex (the black heart could have been one that was taken)
just spitballing
Holy crap, am I really watching this immediately after its posted?! Cool!
High five~!
Dunno how I got suggested here but sure works for me
After playing lightfall this sadly feels same. I don't want to wait till final shape for vex to MAYBE do something. They do nothing
all things considered I wonder if we will ever have a faction of vex choose to align with us. We (the player) keep besting everything, we are something that defies even the vex's ability to understand, much like how the sol devisive saw the witness and decided that it was the thing that would insure their survival, perhaps the immortal godslayer will gain a following of vex wanting to ride on our coattails
Asher 100% would be the key to that.
since we know that Exo are sort of vex hybrid, I think the best way to make a next story for the Vex would be for them to in some way try to reclaim the exo? We would even have some exo get corrupted which could give us a bad guy with a more human personality. Maybe the stranger, Ada, or Banshee, but probably not Clovis even though he is an asshole. It would give us that emotional response having to fight them as well ( or try to save them)
Dang I'm early
Samee byf tops anything else on here😎
The problem I've always seen relates to what they are. They're a quantum computer of unimaginable size. The amount of energy it would take to make just a simulated snapshot of the universe is currently incalculable. I don't see any possible way that the Vex could lose or even come remotely close to losing. When you can simulate quantum states on an absolute level, you can predict them as well. The Vex should not only be able to chart the course of every celestial object ranging from super giant stars to individual antiquarks but should be able to predict with 100% certainty, the world lines of every lifeform as well. With that knowledge, they wouldn't even need different calculations. All it would take is one to encapsulate every possible divergence. Every move we make would have been predicted with countermeasures planned for each.
When you assume that a species can accurately simulate the universe, you might as well be declaring them the winner right there. Anything less would be plot contrivance. And if the Vex aren't 100% accurate in their predictions, why? If they can identify and correct aberrant behavior in their network, which they can, then what kind of flaw could overcome their defenses? It would have to be some kind of auto-immune virus of such a magnitude that the Vex would have no way of missing it. That's the paradox of it all. There can't be a medium threat Vex. If they're working as intended, then they will win every time. If they're compromised, then their ability to fulfil their core mandate would be in tatters, and they'd have no way of achieving their goal.
Now this is the kind of stuff I subbed for! Reading and playing the in-game lore is fine but I love hearing YOUR takes on what's going on, where it could be going, etc.
I hope after the Final shape, we get an expansion focused on the Vex. We’ve only had one expansion that put the Vex in the spotlight, and that was Curse of Osiris. All the other times that the Vex were the main antagonists were season(Undying and Splicer). I also hope we get more Vex themed armor, weapons, exotics, and cosmetics. Imagine if we had armor that looked like a Vex precursor
Guess before watching: The vex have no notable characters/leaders with actual personality. They have no Savathun, or Eramis, or Fikrul, or Calus. A antagonist that actually spits at us and has something to say. Honestly the closest thing we got to that was Panoptes back in CoO and he wasn’t much.
Out of curiosity how does vex teleportation work exactly? They seem to be able to drop into a number of locations on other planets but we’re unable to go into the last city without lakshmi opening a portal. Are they limited or did they just choose not to invade until the portal was opened.
something i've been thinking about with the vex is that the ones we've faced so far are like the engineers, builders and colonizers dedicated mostly to construction or manipulation, not necessarily real warriors dedicated to complete destruction/extermination of an opposing force despite how strong those units still are. So when we do eventually meet them or step foot on their home world or territory just how out of our depth would we as para-causal beings really be?
On top of that im wondering if a vex or somebody that was turned into a vex could ever be chosen by a ghost or even regain their lost light and become an independent entity again.
Even more interesting to think about the possibility that a vex subdivision could see the light as a vastly superior force and decide to worship us instead? I remember a video from ages ago talking about a bunch of solar titans that supposedly surpassed the traveler and went off world never to be heard of again or some ridiculous thing like that it would be interesting to see if a guardian or light wielder from centuries/millenia? ago could have become as powerful and wield the light on the same or greater level than the witness supposedly does.
Hi,
just wandering what the shield ability that you were using in the video was
I dunno if they need a character to be their voice, but I'd really love to see them tied into things a little more. Maybe they can keep them on the brain for whatever comes after the Saga of Light and Dark?
Wasn't the Vex the first pattern that escaped the garden game between thr Gardener and the Widower back when the universe came to be? I'm sure I read something about it talking about a pattern made of silica strutuctures and whatnot (radiolaria).
I’ve always had and idea of a faction of the Vex allying themselves with us. Maybe even evolving into something more similar to ourselves. Having an army of hyper intelligent beings backing us would definitely be helpful
Wouldn’t it be the perfect thing for survival? Play both sides of the huge fight to ensure you’re around to some capacity once the dust settles. It’d be cool if some of the vex could fight for the traveler.
Imo the vex are super smart so simply following some entity isn't something I imagine
But they might dig inside both (witness and traveer) to try breaking them apart so no one survives expect for them
Another idea that has been floating in my mind about D3 is that it might be all vex related. Why you might ask
Simply because they do not look like a main villain in the near future
The guardians are super tunnel visioned into the witness and what he will. That's why I think the vex should just be a behind the scene actor that tries to develop and improve while everyone eyes are far from them
Idk if that's practical but its what comes to my mind every time the vex conversation pops up
When Byf mentioned about a united Vex overmind it made me think about the character Bel'Veth from League of Legends; a being comprised of an unfathomble amount of other minds that can use all that processing power for their own ends.
If we ever got a Vex overmind it'd be pretty cool if they leaned on said overmind being a, well, being of pure logic in terms of personality. Speaking without lies or misdirection since it doesn't need to. Of course that goes out the window since Vex can't simulate paracausal beings, which of course includes us guardians, but maybe under a united front the Vex could at the very least begin to understand paracausality and thus could pose as a new threat after the Witness.
I'm probably just spewing stupidity though.
Daleks are one of the best known scifi enemies, same with the Borg, so there doesn't need to be top level mastermind with charisma and cool lines to make the Vex a working enemy faction. If Bungie just makes the different groups of Vex more distinct, they can be really good enemy faction, one that cannot be reasoned with, which is tons more terrifying than a villain of any level of cunning and charisma.
As long as they don't do the "one unified mind"/the grand leader path I'm fine.
Maybe a collective mind from all the vex within the system, I just don't want a singular villain because then it'll just be like every other faction, then it just won't be the vex at that point.
They're scary and interesting because we never know what they're going to do. By making them predictable it'll just ruin the vibe.
A good villain needs build up, they can't be rushed or we'll just get another beyond light situation.
I'm excited to see how the vex will be shown after final shape, because that's where they'll shine I feel
"...Asher didn't bother to learn our name..."
Do we even have a name? I thought our Guardian was just called "Guardian" and some assortment of titles, like "Young Wolf"
Imo.....thats up to us to decide. Give your Gaurdian a name. Whats their personality like. What do they do when they arnt farming fallen for a gun barely better than the current one
Checked my feed hoping for a byf video and see this posted 2 minutes ago 🔥
I am also very curious where the story of the vex will go next seeing that they've just had their first taste of subjugation at the hands of Quoria. Will they align with the witness or us or will they simply try to adopt an isolationist approach and attempt to seal themselves off from the rest of inhabitants of Sol. It is confirmed through a scannable vex body on Nessus near where Xur hangs out that the factions are starting to coalesce into a single unit. But as far as where their line of reasoning is taking them I don't know.
A cool idea I had at one point for a memorable vex would be something like the how the Harbinger from ME2 operates. It doesn't directly fight us, but possesses vex as were fighting them and makes them far deadlier. Give it actual dialog, and maybe a special interest in our Guardian
Gotta admit, one of my most favourite and fond memories from the Vex, is in thw house of wolves DLC when they salute you before you enter the VOG.
I feel like they could go down the geth route that mass effect did where the vex gained more sentence to develop personalities, which i would love to see, could add vex allies to the mix, and more vex might also side with the witness
The new audio sounds like he's talking to us from a radio or like a podcast. It sounds good don't get me wrong, but it's too clean, too smooth. It doesn't sound like we're sitting around a campfire or a library listening to him tell us a story before we go and shoot up Savathun.
I think them specifically incorporating asher into the vex is the setup to give us a direct vex ally faction like caitals cabal or the house of light. It seems this and lightfall are going to be drawing the lines of battle for the final shape, we received fallen and cabal allies in beyond light and had that expanded in witch queen, and we will revive hive and vex allies in lightfall and have that expanded in lightfall. We will also see the lines drawn with the darkness too like sol inherent
An interesting route I think Bungie could take is having a Vex submind go rogue from the rest of the network, sort of like what's going on with Bel'Veth in League of Legends. Bel'Veth's story is that she is a void monster who like all void monsters, wants to destroy the world, but she sees an interesting vision for what the world could become afterwards, unlike the other Void characters, who just want to destroy the world because it is to them what loud heavy metal music is to a sleeping person. Maybe this theoretical submind has a similar goal in mind: they also want to survive to the end of the universe, but they have this unique vision for what it could become that puts them at conflict with the rest of the Vex, a conflict that we as guardians inevitably get caught up in.
I'd be intrigued to see if in the end the Vex help us stop the witness, probably just before we take on the witness in a final confrontation. If in their calculations we can show them that there's at least a chance we can defeat the witness and they decide to hedge their bets.
Maybe the reason the Vex have largely not interfered is because they want to let us clash with the Witness... and then mop up what's left.
@@cryw1092 Honestly for some Vex minds that seems likely. Unless they are gearing up to become a paracausal themselves the only way they prevail is to wait for us to finish duking it with the witness.
Oh god, I just had a terrifying thought that I'm glad can never happen. A Vex assimilated Reaper. Or a Reaper assimilated Vex? Who overrides who there? Now I actually want to see that tested even though I don't want that to happen. It probably comes down to the number of Vex vs the number of Reapers and how they'd interact. Would a Reaper agree with the Vex and join with them? or would the Reapers try to destroy them? I think the Reapers could see the utility of Vex technology being able to manipulate time, but are the Reapers sophisticated and powerful enough AI to override the Vex minds? Do the Vex see the Reapers as a useful tool or a hindrance? Is mass effect technology a unique enough advantage for the Vex to consider using it? How does the Vex handle the indoctrination technology? Would they just ignore that or use it to get more drones? What about Dragons Teeth? How would Husks be used? I need this in my life now, even if it's just for the sheer horror aspect of it.
Vex aren't intelligent in a way that makes sense for indoctrination to work. The problems Reapers were trying to solve (both the original heat death problem and the ME3 synthetic problem) are things the Vex have solved ages ago, so I don't see the Reapers standing a chance. If they didn't join them outright willingly they'd ineffectually fight them for a bit before falling, assuming the Vex cared enough to swat them away. They're so powerfully eldritch that Reapers would be nothing to them.