Leslie Mahaffy was locked out of her house after missing curfew and was kidnapped and murdered. I'd rather have my child be rebellious and coming home at 2 in the morning than never being able to see them again.
@@Catglittercrafts my friends mom used to lock her out for days when she was like 15! She forgave her mom and they are close (she’s in her 30s now) I don’t get it
right? she think she's teaching him to come home early. instead she's teaching door's gonna be locked, might as well not even bother going home and spend the night at someone else's place
Right? Why do controlling parents think hurting their kids is gonna make the the kids respect them or love them more? If anything it’s gonna teach them that their parents are neglectful and they should anticipate the day they move out.
I hope Ben sees this... my cat Teddy is obsessed with your voice. Every time I turn on a podcast he sits on the cat tower and listens and sometimes gets close to the screen. His ears perk up every time Ben talks. It's so cute. ❤
For the story about the wife finding the list of presents: I think it does matter that the husband is spending hundreds/thousands on his friends/coworkers and only spending like $20 on his wife. Not because they didn't agree to a budget for themselves, but because of his justification for why he spent so much on them - because "they are important to him". Is your wife not as important to you as your coworkers? Also, it's just plain rude to buy lavish gifts for other people and give your wife a spoon set. I'm not saying he has to go all out for every gift, but why is he getting his SIL an expensive bracelet and not his wife? Idk maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be pissed too.
Let's stop letting men say "it's the thought that counts" when it comes to gifts for their SO, especially when there is a lot more thought given to people outside of the relationship. It's so disrespectful to spend 20x the amount on a gift for a coworker, than you did on your legal spouse. Also, KITCHEN/HOUSE SUPPLIES/APPLIANCES ARE NOT A GIFT FOR YOUR SPOUSE!! THESE ARE A JOINT PURCHASE.
The curfew story has me wondering if these teenagers don't have a key to their own home. This never would have worked on me, because I've carried a house key since I was 9 years old.
That husband calling his wife “an ungrateful spoiled brat” is the worst thing I’ve ever heard. Please leave him it will only get worse do not have children with him my dad used to say shit like that. Sounds like a narcissist trying to gaslight you that YOU’RE overreacting. If she spent that much on coworkers he’d be PISSED
I haven’t watched that part yet but I think you’re absolutely right. My dad is a big time narcissist (too)and most of his hatred towards me and my sister was us being “ungrateful brats”. He punished us by not buying any food for us when we were with him for the week (thank the lord my mom divorced him) and he made us eat whatever food he had left in te cupboard, claiming he had bought it ‘just for us’. It was usually past expiriation date and often had mold. And he still called us spoiled for not wanting to eat this. Well anyway, hearing “spoiled brat” is a trigger for me, it just makes it clear how he thinks of the wife and it is bad
Honestly to me it’s not even that it cost $20, but that it’s so impersonal. Like he got her fucking spoons for their shared kitchen. She expressed no interest in spoons, he didn’t take into account her hobbies or job or love of things. And to spend $250 on jewelry for your sister in law and get your wife impersonal spoons is super weird and makes me think he has a thing for her. Idk.
Like if it were a $20 photo album or a hand massage cause she always complains about cramps or smth that she clearly enjoyed and was personal to her or significant to their relationship, totally different story.
I think he is right, she maybe grew up getting whatever she wants because she doesn't apprechiate ,,cheap" gifts and also needs to point out that she makes expensive gifts. Its not a gift if you expect something in return. To me the problem is that he didnt spend thought rather than money on the gift like she doesnt seem happy about the spoons. But she is def. spoiled I would never say something like that to anyone who is caring to gift me something
@@majawwww I see shit like that mom leaving her kid to sleep in the treehouse and all I can imagine is: all it takes is a man like Paul Bernardo to see your kid locked out and vulnerable to take advantage of it.
Right? Isn’t the point of the curfew to have your children safe and in your care during the “dangerous hours” at night? Why would you make them stay outside after that??
About the partner gift-giving one: my boyfriend's family members have been getting me small gifts for Christmas since we started dating and he brought me home to introduce me, before we even hit the year mark on our relationship. His one grandmother has over 100 descendants but still includes me in her holiday sock giving tradition. It doesn't have to be something huge or expensive, it's just the sentiment really of feeling included. It's so odd to me that the mom wouldn't get something at least small and cheap for his wife, nonetheless anything for her grandchild? Honestly just sounds like a weird power/control thing on the mom's part.
@@eritakahashi1765 I honestly can’t remember but I think over 10… there are a LOT of large families- I think the current record is 17 kids between biological and adoption in one branch- and they just keep growing. We just got engaged and I honestly am going to need a spreadsheet or something to figure out who all we are inviting to the wedding. He himself has 3 brothers and 3 half brothers
But she didn't mention not giving something to the grandchild. Also, there was no mention of the economical status. Yes, she could have given something small but to me I hate buying gifts that can be trashed. It's a waste of money, time, and effort to give something someone is going to just chuck to the side. I wouldn't want to do that. Especially if the mother is already spending money on a Christmas party. Besides, the only gift that the mother does owe are the ones to the kids and no one else. Plus it did seem like an oversight from the explanation. While yes, she may have overreacted, I don't blame her for thinking the wife is a bit entitled and complaining about it. You shouldn't ask for gifts. It's rude. Especially since you don't know someone's budget. for example, I always feel pressured to by my Goddaughter's gift, her dad (who is my friend), and his wife a gift when going to Christmas. It becomes expensive. So instead of getting something bigger for my goddaughter, I have scaled it down (to be on budget) so I can buy 3 people a gift who collectively give me one small gift. And on top of that, there's no appreciation for the gifts I do give cause they weren't grand enough even though they were thoughtful. That's how complex it can get. It's why people shouldn't expect gifts. It becomes tricky if you do.
Agreed! We don't really do gifts in our family since there are not any kids or anything so we just do things for each other and such. But you are right about the powe control thing!
@@artsygal112 imo we need more contect. Does the wife consistently include the inlaws during xmas? It sounds like the grandkids aren't included either tho, it said wife and kids not included. Do they ALL do christmas at the inlaw's house? Cuz it's kinda weird if everyone gets at least something but not the spouses?
In reference to the nightmare mother-in-law house key story, why the hell would you not lie and play it off??? “Oh gosh, I must have given you the wrong key! I was making copies of my shed key too and I must have given you the wrong one, I’m SO sorry!!” And then of course proceed with the whole “but why were you using it during a non emergency?” public shaming bit 👌
imagine your new husband getting you $20 spoons for the house as a christmas gift when he dropped thousands on gifts for his co-workers. what a way to show where your priorities lie. if i were her, i'd return the expensive gifts i'd bought for him and get him something within their apparent budget. raid the dollar store or whatever. but then i am a petty b.
Big red flag honestly. He even said that he spends so much because they're important to them. So the wife apparently isn't. And a spoon set? How personal... Might have even bought it for himself.
With the partner giving the $20 spoons gift... Idk. If I was her I would seriously reconsider that relationship. It's not necessarily that his gift for her is an issue, it's that context is making it seem like he doesn't value her. 1. Cost of a gift isn't necessarily an expression of how much someone means to you. Some people cannot afford big gifts and some people just aren't big gift givers. However, if he's buying friends and coworkers gifts in the $1k range and his wife a gift in the $20 range, something seems off. 2. Some gifts aren't expensive but are valuable in a sentimental sense, but a $20 set of spoons for the kitchen doesn't sound valuable in this sense either. In fact, it seems less thoughtful than the gifts he got for others. It's not even a "fun" practical gift like an air fryer or instant pot or cake pan or something along those lines where it's unnecessary but fun. 3. This only matters in some circumstances, but if she's the one who does the majority of the cooking and it's not a hobby for her, it kinda seems like a "here's something to use when you cook me supper, woman" type of gift which is worse than just being thoughtless in a normal sense. I know that in the majority of relationships I've seen amongst my friends, the woman does end up doing most of the cooking. 4. When confronted over it, it doesn't sound like he was sympathetic at all. He didn't say the gift was smaller because it's what they exchanged in the past whereas work and friends tend to exchange large ticket items, he didn't apologize and express any sort of reason for his behavior or sympathy for her, he immediately went on with name calling and telling her how his coworkers and friends are important to him (which is fair, but he's also implying that she, as his WIFE, means less to him than his coworkers or friends since her gift was so much smaller) Like, if my partner didn't have much money and got me spoons, or if spoons were what I wanted, or if my partner wasn't big on gifts, I would be happy to get spoons and grateful that my partner thought of me. If my partner was shelling out the cash on expensive, thoughtful gifts for coworkers and friends and got me a cheap set of cooking utensils to cook him supper with and THEN didn't even take a moment to think through why it hurt my feelings and just called me spoiled or something along those lines? I would be asking myself some hard questions about the sustainability of the relationship.
And he bought a $300 bracelet for his sister in law? So, just to reiterate, he spent 20 buck on a thoughtless gift for his WIFE but 300 bucks on a nice gift for his BROTHER'S WIFE??! not only is that a kick in the gut for his wife, but that's just awkward as hell for both his brother and his sister in law as well. Unless the sister in law is the wife's sister, which would arguably be even worse. I can't imagine my fiance giving me some crappy spoons and my own sister an expensive bracelet. That would probably be the end of our relationship...
@@ivagrasmeijer5530 To be honest, if my partner gave my sister or his sibling's wife a 10x more expensive and meaningful gift than me, I'd probably be wondering if he's interested in her or even cheating with her. There's no logical reason why that should happen, even if he's trying to "impress" her. Especially if he proceeds to say, "She's important to me and I like her" (included in the statement that his coworkers and such are important to him) when it's made clear I'm not as important.
Espresso Machine Story: OP should tell GF what happened. GF should give the machine back to the friends and accept BF's gift. Let the friends worry about returning. That is a sh*t thing to do to someone.
Actually that's a perfect solution because not only can OP "regain the loss," but also the "friends" would bear a tangible consequence for their sh*tty actions. I cannot imagine being that comfortable to waste such a huge amount of money just to one-up someone.
If my kid missed the curfew by an hour one night, the worst punishment I would give him would be that his curfew for the next day would be an hour early. That's the only punishment I can think of that could be fair. It's not like he's missing for the whole night. The curfew, however, really depends on where you live. I live in NYC, the Bronx, which is not exactly the safest neighborhood, so I can understand the 10 pm curfew. It sucks, but it's out of safety concern. If my kid's at a safe place, like a friend's house past 10 pm, that's fine, but I would pick him/her up to come home, or make sure that they drive instead of walking.
Yeah, but if the early curfew was because of a dangerous neighborhood, then the last thing I would do would be make the kid sleep outside in winter in said dangerous neighborhood
@@Sauti_science I totally agree. Like there needs to be rationale for the curfew and punishment. If it's not safe out, then that makes sense for the curfew. But locking them outside is wild. If the kid was really breaking curfew to be unsafe, he could have literally just upped and left and went to sleep elsewhere. That punishment makes absolutely no sense. If anything a punishment could be like not being allowed out next Saturday or something.
Yeah I agree, I don't think 10pm is that unreasonable. They could always ask you first if they wanted to stay out later, and you could give them permission so long as you knew where they were going etc...
In the gift question, it's weird to exclude partners for sure but I think it's more weird for parents to purchase "lavish" gifts for adult children, and to also not purchase gifts for babies who are in fact biological Grandchildren? That is wild to me - it'd be more normal to just not give gifts at all, give gifts only to children, or give modest gifts to all adults who will be present. To give your biological child a "lavish" gift and ignore thier committed partner of 5 years and thier CHILD seems REALLY manipulative, which is then confirmed by her massive tantrum of "I just wont have Christmas at all then."
If she wants to buy lavish gifts she could get her kid and their partner something like a coupon for a weekend away in an hotel or something else they can enjoy together.
yeah. i mean my family never bought lavish gifts, because we couldn't afford that, and so my grandparents would buy gifts for me and my sister, and maybe if they had money to spare they'd buy a little something for my parents. whenever my grandparents came to visit, the gifts were all basically for me and my sister, with maybe a box of chocolates for my parents. because that's sorta what christmas has always been, giving gifts to the kids
Totally agree. What's going to happen once the kid gets older? The OP's going to go to Christmas dinner and his wife and child gets excluded from the gift giving? That'll go over like a lead balloon. My 3 YO nephew wants to open everyone's present - not just his own. That's something every kid goes through I think. It's best that they put the kibosh on this now before it does psychological damage to their child. Totally abnormal behavior for sure, and the OP should stay strong. His wife is not "entitled" or "childish" by expecting a gift for her and/or the baby. The OP has a very simple request that has an easy solution, but Mommy Dearest would rather create drama and hurt people then listen, empathize and bend to someone else's needs. The mother is manipulating everyone to get her way, and her son is in denial if he doesn't realize she knows exactly what she's doing. Typical narcissistic/BPD behavior to pick on the black sheep, and that's exactly what the mother is doing. Ugh.
I came to the comments to see if anybody else thought this too, she's not buying a gift for her grandchild?!? I find it strange that that was mentioned almost in passing at the start of the story and that wasn't the OP's main argument moving forward!
It kind of seems that she enjoys giving lavish gifts but cannot afford them for every family member, so instead of downsizing and giving everyone something less expensive, she limited the number of recipients. My family never gave lavish gifts, because we hate that pressure, but I know some people that feel like they have to spend a lot of money on gifts and they are stuck in that mindset.
The one about the divorce and the dad inviting the Son in law...that is such a red flag for the fact that the husband WAS controlling. He manipulated her parents to make them believe he's a saint and so lonely at Christmas to either see her or to isolate her away from her own family. Nothing about that story was good
Hi Mary, I have 3 adopted daughters who are not my biological children, but they are my children, I get very sensitive about the topic. I am sorry If I have offended you in anyway. Happy New Year to you and yours!
Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing! The husband sounded manipulative as fuck, and the daughter, while not really in the right because cheating is terrible, probably had some insight into the relationship the parents didn't.
I have a feeling there’s a reason he couldn’t visit his family for Christmas. Probably is a general asshole, especially for accepting an invitation to his ex wife’s Christmas dinner? So many red flags.
My mom gets upset if my family brings anyone as a guest to Christmas without telling her, especially children, because she doesn't want anyone to feel excluded. She actually started keeping sort of 'generic' gifts that most people would enjoy so if she needs a last minute gift for someone she didn't realize was there she can. Also I'm disturbed on how a mother-in-law doesnt consider her child's partner and her grandchild as family? Thats sort of the whole idea of marriage is it not?
My mom has always done that too, and I inherited the habit haha! It can come in handy when you have a sudden need for a little present, like a secret santa at work or at a xmas party, or someone’s housewarming party or when you have just forgotten a friends bday is coming up. The last time I needed my stash was when I had a friend who I see very rarely cos he lives so far away, was in town, and wanted to go for a lunch. It was december already, I had planned on sending him and his gf just a self made card and scratch tickets which I’m sure he would have appreciated (he hasn’t usually gotten me any physical present he’s just been thoughtful in other ways like offered to buy me coffee etc). I wanted to give a proper gift but paying for postage would have cost too much. But since he was in town it meant I didn’t have to pay postage so even though I hadn’t prepared anything specific for them I could gather a little physical gift from what I had and added the card and tickets to it :)
I've found a good generic gift to have in lieu or on short notice is chocolate/sweets of some kind (unless you know the person doesn't like or is allergic to them obviously). I've had a few last minute relatives invite themselves, and chocolates always go down well without leaving anyone feeling excluded!
I mean I get that, but I think in that particular story it turned out the wife had actually been quite awful to the mom which justifies her behaviour. Not considering your grandchild family however does seem unfair, regardless of the opinion of your daughter in law.
It's fascinating how many of these have to do with narcissistic partners and parents. It's insane how narcissists manipulate other people to shift the blame from them. For the record, my parents would never be upset if one of my siblings was proposed to at Christmas dinner. Likewise, they would never cancel Christmas over a dispute about gift giving. It's sad to see how children of narcissistic parents unfortunately fall into their trap (like thinking it's the son's fault that the mom cancelled Christmas rather than just agreeing to disagree and moving forward). I feel for anyone out there living with a narcissist!
I agree. If the time of year is special to someone, you're surrounded by the people you love, etc., I feel like that's a perfect place to propose. I feel like for the mom to say it was her special day and it got hijacked completely disregards the whole idea behind gathering for the holidays.
I was surprised to see the a-hole tag on the proposal story, meaning people mostly agreed it was bad. Like maybe weird but it's just another thing to celebrate as a family! It's great sign that she felt comfortable to do it in her bf's family imo
@@Myrilia His family was so weird though. Mom is like - you stole my Christmas! Dad - A WOMAN?! Proposing? How hold is he? I'd stay away from that family. What happens when she announces her pregnancy? "You've ruined Ground Hogs Day forever!".
@@recoil53 oh i agree with you, i'm sure the idea of tradition the parents have played a big part in their reactions to their DIL and i disagree with it. I would have a hard time with a family like that 😅
In regard to the coworker gifts one I side with the wife. If the husband is spending thousands of dollars on his friends while he wouldn’t even give an iota of thought or effort into his new wife’s gift I’d be pissed too. The fact that it was a cheap set of spoons as a present for their first Christmas as a married couple shows that he did not care to actually put thought into his wife’s gift as he did for people that weren’t his literal WIFE.
same! it’s not really about the cost of the present, but the fact that he’s not prioritising his own wife. you can get a really meaningful and thoughtful gift for 20 dollars too, but spoons sound like he was in a store and remembered his wife exists too and picked up the first thing he saw
Exactly! His response when she asked him why he was spending so much was “because these people mean something to me and I like them”….uhhh, do you not feel that way about your WIFE?!
Wait! The mom who doesn’t give gifts to the wife also doesn’t give gifts to their child (her grandchild). It’s one thing that she doesn’t gift anything to the wife but to give “lavish” gifts to the son and ignore the grandchild too… something is not right there
Seems like the mom dislike the husband's wife, and doesn't want to associate with her at all. You don't jump from liking someone to seeing them as a "whiney child" (or similar). Yikes!
Haha, curfew story time. I was TWENTY years old, very responsible. I had an 11pm curfew. I was at my boyfriend's house (he lived with his parents, so we were not alone) and he had just been hired at a new job. He was a bit overwhelmed by the big load of work they gave him that first week, and I was helping him go through it (a lot of data sheets to pour through). I called my mom a handful of times to update her on how it was going since it was getting late. She told me to hurry, dad was getting antsy. I checked in again around 10:45pm to let her know we were almost done (but it was an hour drive) so we would be late, but I'd call again when we left. She told me to leave IMMEDIATELY because dad was furious. We finished quickly and left at 11pm. I called to say we were on our way. She said dad was livid. We got back, and my dad stormed out of the house and told my boyfriend to never, ever return, he was not allowed to see me anymore. Once again, I was TWENTY years old. He then took my phone from me. So I had no car, no phone. I moved out that night. It had been a long time coming. Fifteen years later, married to the guy for twelve years now, AND living in my childhood home (the same home he was told never to return to). My parents live next door. My dad still has a lot of anger issues but it took me moving out to start the process of him seeing me as an adult. Boundaries needed to be set. They respect my decisions, choices, and family dynamic.
When I lived with my parents I paid a majority of the rent, so I'd get out of work late about 11 or 12 some nights and while I did have a house key my parents would constantly lock the top lock that NONE of us had the key to open and they'd be asleep so I'd sleep in my car some nights.. it was irritating at the very least
@@steph_lopez its not okay for your mom to control you with her anxiety. This probably sounds harsh to you, but that is her problem and something she needs to work on. Do not let her prevent you from living the life you want, you only get one life! Just in case you need to hear that.
I think he told his gf's friends that he was getting the espresso machine early so no one else would get the same thing. I told my bf I was getting some 35mm film for his sister's camera. And my bf got her some nice camera straps to add to her setup. His mom told us that she's getting the other sister a barista, so I got that sister some turmeric elixir to make turmeric latte with (she likes turmeric). In general, or ideally, it should be nice to communicate within the family or friend group when it comes to gifts, unless your friends suck like those ones in the subreddit. That's very unfortunate for the bf, he probably didn't anticipate the friends to be so incredibly inconsiderate.
It definitely sounds like there must be more to the story. But either way asking for a refund is dumb in my opinion. Of course they arent going to pay you.
@@silverkyre True. He shoulda talked to his gf about it. If he got the gift first, the gf should take his espresso machine instead of her friend's. And the friend can try to return that espresso machine or deal with it however. I don't know why the gf took her friend's espresso machine and not his...
@@vaaance710 he never gave it to her it sounds like she didnt know. He was gonna give to her for Christmas and they gave it to her for her birthday in November Youre right that would be the only reasonable thing to do
If I found out that my partner’s spent $20 on a gift for me and $900 on a gift for their friend, I would be so weirded out. Am I the only one who would worry they were cheating on me? I’m pretty secure, but that’s like a “secret second family” level of price discrepancy to me 😳
If that's true, it's very strange. Wouldn't he spend big to keep up appearances and make her not suspect anything? Unless he did it on purpose in order for them to get divorced? Weird all round.
That’s a really shitty thing for her friends to do! If I were her I’d be pretty pissed at them, tell them to return it and keep the one from my boyfriend. Had he not told the friends he was getting that for her it’d be a different situation but it just seems petty and childish and honestly quite disrespectful to try to beat him to the punch. Especially considering it wasn’t an inexpensive item
And also, is this dinner specifically for the mom? If its a FAMILY dinner shouldn’t it be wonderful to see your son get engaged at such a familial event?
@@thebelles8060 Yes! I understand people who propose at big events: everyone is there! Everyone can celebrate a bit, everyone knows about it immediately, it's nice! I don't see how something that will last at most half an hour can "ruin" a multi hour (or even multi day!) event.
Yeah see, I kinda thought it would be fine since it’s a family dinner, the family is already there, it could be a cute memory for the whole family to remember.. Maybe I’m wrong or I’m too young to understand proper social rules?
I have a feeling the woman has a habit of being attention seeking by acting “woke” and by her proposing didn’t come off as a genuine special event to witness but just her trying to get attention at the fact that’s SHE’s proposing as a female, in the middle of dinner.
@@roygbiv9038 that's a lot of assuming Susan. She didn't even mention that dynamic until she mentioned that her father in law seemed to have an issue with it.
The mom in that one who wasn’t getting gifts for her son’s wife, he mentioned that she wasn’t getting gifts for his baby, either. That means she also was excluding her grandchild from gifts. Surely grandchildren should be included in the gift giving/getting, even if partners aren’t. (Though I think partners should be as well.)
Seems like she hated the wife and children by extension 😬. Or she grew up very poor with very strict parents. Either way the husband doesn't seem to see his mom honestly.
I don’t think partners should be entitled up gifts from their partners parents. I have never expected anything from my husband’s family. We didn’t even get Xmas presents for the kids from them. No biggie.
I mean she could atleast get a couple's gift. I think it runs deeper as the mum mentioned that she doesn't think it's her responsibility to Holst Xmas every year. Maybe she is old and it's too stressful so they should take it in turns to host Xmas. I think she used the gift thing as a reason to get away from it all. She is still an a hole regardless.
The proposal at Xmas dinner seems so overblown, like omg. It's just Christmas. It's a traditional time of year, but nowhere near the same level as a wedding, birthday, anniversary etc. If the boyfriend loves Christmas then it seems like the perfect time to propose! The mother needs to get over herself. Instead of accepting it as an enhancement to her day, she chose to view it as a threat. Ridiculous.
Yeah it’s absurd Christmas dinner is friends and family . If your going to propose in front of people a family dinner would be that time. The mother in law is clearly just pressed about her son marrying her. *not good enough for my baby boy syndrome *
My husband from the other room: "I think the mother in law walking in on her son and daughter in law in bed was a problem that should have immediately solved itself" 🤣
About the driving lesson story: I got my license when I had just turned 20. Learning to drive was absolutely nerve wracking thought for me. I'm glad that I had people around me that were willing to wait until I was ready to start the lessons and didn't pressure me. If I had gotten driving lessons as a gift I would have been so upset. In the story there was obviously a problem but they should have resolved by discussing it and not just give the lessons as a gift. So I kind of understand the writer here.
I agree. I got my license when I was 21 though I had started lessons at 17, but it took so long for me because I developed bad anxiety around 18 and had trouble trusting myself to drive. Getting a license “later” in life can be justified, but in the case of this story I can understand the writer.
got my license with 18 but almost failed, I have really bad driving anxiety and my driving teacher even accused me of talking pills/ being on drugs bc of how anxious I am!! Only made my anxiety worse and I refuse to buy a car now bc I just cant handle the stress. Totally understand when somebody does not feel okay enough to drive, it doesn’t mean they‘re selfish or not independent.
I would have understood if he had expressed a fear, but it kinda sounded like he made half baked excuses just because he doesn't want to... I'm not OP, but driving can be a really important skill in the case of even minor emergencies.
I got my license late so I understand that but what I don’t like is that the OP basically said why do I need a license when she can just drive me around. I hated having to rely of other people but the OP just sounds super entitled
@@MadHatta555 Right? Folks are giving dude too much credit with this "driving anxiety is legit" thing. Dude needs to get out of the crib and stop expecting his girlfriend to be his chauffeur. Signed - lady who got her license at THIRTY-TWO.
The mom who won't buy gifts for their kids' partners is absolutely the AH in this situation. My mom has been buying Christmas gifts for my husband since before we were even engaged, and my MIL has done the same for me. Your kid's partner (if they are married or in a long-term relationship) should be considered an extension of them. IMO it's really rude to exclude them, not to mention your own grandchild! It's not like you even have to spend a lot of money (which it seems like she could if she wanted to, considering she's buying her own kids "lavish" gifts). Just a little something to show you give a crap would be fine. And then to throw a tantrum and basically hold Christmas hostage? What a petty manipulative weirdo. And the fact that the sisters are on the mom's side just show she's a tyrant who's brainwashed the whole family.
Yes, excluding the partner AFTER MARRIAGE is an open statement that they are _not_ part of the family. She had time to get used to the idea. Mom has dealt with all kinds of change in the world in her life.
in the sweatpants thing, i think it's 50/50, because the mother in law definitely puts way too much emphasis on christmas and wants everyone to be dressed up like they're going to a gala just to show it off, probably even shares family pictures with her friends to show how great her christmas is. but the woman definitely needs to find a happy medium. showing up in sweats when everyone else is dressed up is kinda disrespectful, it shows you literally don't care about being there. so find a happy medium and dress like if you were going to a church service or an office job, so it's more casual-formal and not just straight up casual
I agree. Wearing appropriate clothes is a respect thing. Idk if it’s just the way that I was raised but I think dressing appropriately is still important.
I don't think mother-in-law is unreasonable. I would love to have a dress-up party for Christmas. Just to make it more special. It happens only once a year. I don't need to dress up anywhere else in my life. So, that would be exciting. Therefore, I definitely think that the OP was in the wrong trying to undermine MIL. If someone invites you to the party they dictate the rules and dress code is one of them.
@@100MilesEast MIL: Family Christmas! Please dress up for the festive occasion. DIL: You're not the boss of me. But I'll still take space in your house and eat your food.
What gets me about the first story is the kid was only an hour late so in that hour she ran around the house gathering bedding and setting up a new bed outside? It doesn't really make sense unless the parent was like waiting and plotting this out for anytime curfew was broken, which would make her petty and definitely an asshole. It's not some spur of the moment reaction, she planned this punishment clearly. V
yeah, i agree. when the kid came home the mom texted him, so she could've just gotten to the front door and opened it for him. i find that really weird
Yeahhh she was just pissed he missed all her calls. She wanted to be petty bc he was petty to her 🤣 I think grounding him for a few days would've been more a effective deterrent/a safer option. In hindsight maybe she sees that. Plus 10pm curfew on holidays/weekends for a 16yo is pretty strict 😬
She knew her teenage son was out shagging an unknown girl. Lol Especially with him not answering her 10 calls. Don’t agree with what she did. But him going out on a date till 11 on Christmas Eve over wanting to spend time with her and the family probably made her feel some type of way. Dad woulda cared if it was his daughter out late on a date with an unknown guy on Christmas Eve. But cuz it was his son he wasnt worried. She over reacted though
My dad locked the door on my younger sister once and pretended he didn't hear her knock on the window, he was still awake and downstairs. So she went back to my aunt and uncle's who live a few minutes walk away, and slept in my nieces room. Didn't give him the satisfaction hé wanted. I laughed so hard when she told me!
Cristine talking about how no one makes Christmas gift lists like that hahaha. I literally do that because I try to stick within a budget for people and I buy stuff kinda all year long so I’m not super stressed at Christmas time. So a list of what I bought and how much it was helps me remember what I may have bought in June, make sure I got my item in (I order from Etsy a lot) & makes sure I’m not going way over budget because I bought someone 3 $50 gifts different times in the year but I only budget for $100. It helps me especially with my best friend and boyfriend because I have a tendency to overspend on my boyfriend and I buy stuff every time I see something that makes me think of my best friend and I almost always forget at least one item when wrapping her gifts! I started this in 2020 and it’s helped me so so much!
I have made lists like that in the past because I noticed my uneven spending habits and wanted to get everybody about the same amount/size gift. So if it was a balancing/budgeting list...He failed. Lol
I also make detailed list as I shop for Christmas gifts all year. I started doing it when I realized I had difficulty paying January bills and learned it was because I was spending 3-500$ for all the kids in the family. To this day I make that list.
My mom does this and she has kept the lists in the same book for like 5 years now so she doesn’t buy the same things for people every year. She’s literally the cutest.
@@mary.w.same! I started mine because I was always having issues paying my cc off in Jan-Feb. so I also set aside a little from each paycheck in Jan-Nov to cover gifts as well lol
I think the wife whose husband is spending a huge amount of money on his coworkers and not his own partner is ridiculous. Regularly, you would want to get a nice gift for your partner and not treat them as an afterthought.
Also with the treehouse one the fact that the husband was pissed at his wife and said she was overreacting just shows they are not together on the parenting front and she makes rash, harsh decisions. I think the punishment should be at least discussed and if the dad was that upset he should have went outside to get the kid. Sounds like she is very controlling
I'm confused as to how the dad got all the way through the morning without realizing his son was outside. I mean, *maybe* dad goes to sleep so early that by the time son skipped curfew at ten he was out and mom didn't wake him up, but if dad tends to be more reasonable than mom, why wasn't son texting dad? You'd think as a parent you'd whitelist your kids' calls to get through to you even on DND, so this means that son never bothered to call his dad (which likely means dad backs up mom more often than not), dad ignored it so as not to set mom off, or mom stole dad's phone so he wouldn't get the notifications.
Curfew story: Yeah YTA... but more importantly, that was ILLEGAL in many states. You can't deny entry of a legal resident into a residence. The son could (and should) have called the non-emergency number to the police. They can send a unit and remind the parent they are required to let the child in.
Punsihment only works if it is used as a last resort, if you punish a kid for anything and everything it just stops having any impact, especially with teens. My mom was and still is great, I think, she only punished if we did something actually bad and dangerous. I actually was almost never punished in my life, because I never resented her and acted right. My brother was more complicated but my mom will just explain to him why she's concerned, and he doesn't want to upset her so he tries to do better.
Love these episodes! It would be fun on some of these if you also looked at the comment consensus. The replies can be interesting, and it's always nice to see if our own reaction matches the group or if we have a totally different perspective.
I have some friends who never went beyond the written driving lessons and limited practice because of the panic attacks it would cause. I 100% support this decision because if you don't feel comfortable driving a huge hunk of metal at high (or even low) speeds because you are worried you'll hurt yourself or others then THANK YOU for not driving. Edit: typo
A car is a death machine. Literally. If some one doesn’t feel safe handling a huge dangerous machine which is capable of such harm, than they shouldn’t be forced. Plain and simple!!
yea but this is a 26 yr old grown man. at that point it’s their responsibility to handle their own transportation and not seem dependent on others… anxiety or not
@@stephanieruiz9969 he has figured it out though. He takes a bus or an Uber. He’s not dependent on the girl, she infact could Uber with him if she didn’t want to drive. And he expressed entirely being able to afford it. I think she’s more embarrassed by him
@@siennalewis1088 idk just seems like he's stubborn. Unless I missed it, it doesn't seem like it comes from a place of anxiety. He seemed to say it's about money, but to uber would be expensive, especially everyday to go to work.
Any parent who locks their teenagers out of the house are just bad parents who will force their kids into bad and dangerous situations just so they don't have to sleep rough, freeze, or starve. If by any chance you are a child in this situation and have access to a phone, the best thing to do is call child services as if you are under age they will pick you up find you a safe place to stay
@@recoil53 Yes! That's an appropriate response to breaking the rule! "Son, you broke curfew by an hour so you're going to be doing the washing up for the Christmas meal. Don't do it again, I worry about you" not "I'm petty and controlling and the rule isn't actually because I want you to be safe but so I can control where you go and when. Sleep outside as punishment" !!!
The PS5 one is really sad. I know nothing about their relationship, financial situation, or the other persons perspective, but seriously? The poster obviously respects their partner enough to at least communicate they WANT a Christmas present, and were their wants were “considered” and in the end ignored. A PS5 may have been a little extravagant, but I don’t think it’s childish to get a gift for yourself if your partner fails to come though for you. Jeez.
Regarding the lady who gave her MIL a fake key: My boyfriend was living with his mom when we first started dating. It was more of a convenience for the both of them rather than a money thing. A few years later, mom decided to marry her long-time boyfriend and move to Florida, selling her house to my boyfriend for a fairly low price. Thing is his sister and aunts are just like the MIL, very nosey and pokey, but on top of that very greedy. Mom took a lot of her stuff, even putting some stuff in storage, my boyfriend spent two weeks going through the house and throwing away anything that was left that he didn't need (trash moldy welcome mats and old Christmas lights, etc.) Even so, he would occasionally get knocks on his door or they would call him up asking if he knew where random stuff is. I was actually house-sitting for him one weekend when he went to a convention (not my thing) when his sister and two aunts walked in. Like, you could tell she didn't expect to see me and tried to pass off the fact that she was breaking in as "looking for an old yearbook". He had guessed that they were using his spare key to break into his house because of the random messes he would find. He was pretty sure they were looking for anything they deemed "valuable" or "antique" or (according to them) "family treasures" to literally steal. I jumped up and said, "Yeah, let me text him to see if he's seen it anywhere." and proceeded to follow them around the house. They were like, "Oh, don't bother him." and I was like, "Well, this is his house, so he has a right to know if somebody comes in to look around." I think the thing that pissed me off the most was that he was a non-person to them. It wasn't "his house" he was just babysitting it for his mom, and he was too male to be the keeper of any "family treasures". Like, bitches, whatever his mom left in the house she intended to be for him. If she wanted you to have anything she would have given it to you. And they wonder why we go to *my* families' for holidays. Yes, he changed the location of the spare key after that.
These posts really make me appreciate my step mom. My husband and I (no kids) don't always spend Christmas together because if his family and my family plan them on the same day we don't stress ourselves by driving to both. I just go to mine and he goes to his. I have a best friend who doesn't have any family to spend holidays with (her dad passed when she was a child and she cut her mom out of her life due to her mother's toxic behavior) so for the last few years she's come to my Christmas. Sometimes it's with my husband too and sometimes just the two of us go. My step mom has never put up a fuss about me bringing my bestie and she always makes sure to get her something small because she would feel bad about her coming and having nothing to open. My friend doesn't expect to get anything she is always very appreciative. I understand that most people wouldn't feel the need to get their adult step daughter's adult friend a gift and of course we wouldn't expect it. But it just shows what a nice person she is to not only encourage her to come every year (one year my friend didn't come because she had started to feel bad about "mooching" off my family and my step mom actually called her and told her she really wanted her to spend holidays with us and not alone) but that she also goes out of her way to find her small gifts she might like. Really great woman.
Nice, 😁 My husband and I have also gone to each respective famiies dinner separately some years as well. Also we have asked that one side of the family have a dinner Christmas Eve and one on Christmas day which has also been great for everyone.
The MIL with the emergency key, I unfortunately can relate! My boyfriend and I gave keys to his parents and my parents to our house, just for emergencies. Well my boyfriends mom has come in unannounced twice during our work days to “put food she made us in our fridge” One of these times was during the beginning of the pandemic, and I was temporarily laid off from work. So I heard someone walking around the house and I was terrified someone broke in. When I saw it was her I was pissed. My bf & I were also being very careful during the pandemic, and his mom just lived her life like it was 2019, so I had to deep clean the house after! (Mind you this was April 2020 when we were supposed to be social distanced from other households) We have ring cameras in and out of the house So when I reviewed the footage she was touching and looking at a bunch of our stuff and kept petting our 2 dogs! (We didn’t know if we would get Covid from our dogs fur or not at the time…) The 2nd time it happened we took her key from her lol We live in a state with cold winters & have an enclosed porch. The food would be fine outside for a few hours until we got home.
I've been with my partner for 7 years. We had been together for 2 months when we spent our first Christmas together. I wasn't expecting anything from his parents, but they included me in the gift giving process. I didn't expect nor receive anything lavish from them, but being included felt nice. Now, 7 years later, my in-laws treat me and my partners BIL as if we were their own kids. We get our own gifts plus gifts we share with our partners. I think it really depends on the family, but if your kids have partners then you should be willing to treat them as family. The type of gift given should depend on the individuals and what they can afford, but no one should be left out if they are all celebrating together.
Yep. My brother has been with his girlfriend for 2 months and my dad got her a stocking, mom got her a few wrapped gifts & my grandma got her a blanket and a candle. Doesn’t have to be anything crazy, just include them!
Partner gift giving: moms nuts, but the son should have said, hey, please don’t get me a gift if you’re not getting one for my wife. OR suggest gifts for couples.
The locked out of the house story is a cross over from another podcast- My Favorite Murder. One of Paul Bernardo's victims was locked out of her house because she came home after curfew... Pretty sure Leslie Mahaffy's mom will eternally regret locking her daughter out for missing curfew...
This makes me feel so blessed that I have loving and generous mother and father-in-laws. My husband also really likes my parents. I am so grateful for that. We live far away from all of our families so we rarely have any family drama lol
Same! Every time they do AITA and there's horror in-laws I'm like, "can't relate, and so glad I can't" 😂 We live far from his parents, but have visited a few times and we're only 15mins from my mum, but there's no problems or hostility with either. So thankful
To be fair to the girl who found the present list, I keep a spreadsheet with what I spent on people for Christmas, because I like to spend roughly the same amount per person to make it fair, that's just how I do it. And my husband is also on that list. But also we do agree roughly how much we will spend on each other, and also discuss bigger gifts with each other first before spending the money, so we make financial decisions we are both comfortable with. My husband could easily access that list if he wanted to, he has access to my accounts. I don't think its that weird to keep a budget for Christmas so you don't spend too much. Especially if you have a large family.
Hee hee... I also keep an excel spreadsheet for Christmas gifts with budget, items, ideas, etc... because I like lists. I keep my husband's and my sister's list on a separate tab, because it's usually multi line items. But the total amount of the gift shows on the main tab to calculate totals, but only shows as a single line item. So until I've actually purchased all the gifts, the front page may one have the cost of the stocking stuffer, or funny gift. :D
On the topic of driving, I hate driving, I am autistic and driving is a very overwhelming and stressful experience a lot of the time for me. But I got my license at 23 because I wanted to be able to get around if I have to. My spouse or girlfriend will usually drive, but if for some reason they cannot, I can do it too because I'm not an asshole.
I read the "spoiled brat post" before Ben and Simply got to it. Both my wife and I thought the husband was insane. We were wondering what the hell he was thinking putting his wife last
I keep a spreadsheet of gifts I'm getting for people for Christmas! It's a great way for me to keep track of who I've gotten gifts for, whether they've already shipped or arrived (I do most of my shopping online), and around how much I've spent on each person (so that I'm not spending way more on one sibling than another)
Same! And I keep these lists digitally for the most part, but if I made a physical list that could feasibly be found by my partner, I probably wouldn't write it down either. I can't help but feel like that's what the husband was doing, or maybe he hadn't come up with the right gift yet (gift-giving is *clearly* one of his love languages, lol). I think the wife may have jumped the gun on that one and gotten her own feelings hurt.
@@taylorwalker7417 That's kind of what I was thinking, too! Like maybe he just hadn't gotten anything else for her yet, but that didn't mean he wasn't planning to!
The proposal in front of family: I think that depends on the family. Some people (like the family in the post) would not like it. My family would have been over the moon if my now fiance had proposed in front of any of them. They would have loved to share in that moment with us. I specifically asked him to do it somewhere somewhat private because I wanted it to be just for us. I personally don't feel like a family holiday dinner is at the same level of "someone else's wedding" If it was an organized dinner for some other reason - a celebration for something - that's inappropriate without first talking to the hosts. But a holiday dinner that happens every year doesn't strike me as inappropriate at all. But maybe I'm in the minority there?
@@thenopedetective definitely weird for that exact scenario. The poster probably should have done that differently. Knowing the dad is old school, knowing the mom is kind of uptight, etc, there was really no reason to propose there. I was responding more to Ben and Cristine's discussion about it though.
I agree. Imo proposing in front of people in general is something one should be careful about, as it can put the partner under pressure to say yes, unless they've already talked about it beforehand of course. That said, it seems strange that the mother was making the family dinner all about herself, saying it's her event etc. when it's an event for the whole family and the goal should be to make everyone feel included, not make one person the center of attention.
I totally agree with you, it’s not like someone’s birthday or anniversary or wedding, it’s Christmas. However, given the context of the family dynamics, this possibly wasn’t a great idea considering they got mad about it the next day. But generally, when families are amicable and even… loving (!!!), I know my family would have loved if something like this had happened. When the authentic feelings are that you are genuinely happy for your family members, it’s not weird or rude.
Yeah it’s not on the same level, but I would take into account that it’s someone else’s event into consideration and talked/ asked them about it prior to proposing as a courtesy.
They’re so skeptical about the gift planning list, but it’s definitely useful if you need to budget for each person and make sure you keep your presents organized lol
@@cyankalis Oh of course, that’s what I do now. I just mean they seemed weirded out that anyone would write out what they plan on giving people and the costs of those items.
@@lineyloveslacquer personally I don't think it's weird, it's plain budgeting, maybe he tends to forget some things because there are quite a few people that he wanted to give gifts to, that makes sense to me. It just doesn't seem too clever of him to write it down so the wife could find it
@@cyankalis yeah I definitely used to hide the paper one I did back in the day before smartphones, so idk where this guy left his so she could easily find it🤔
Omg wow! The husband who gave the wife a spoon is cheating on her. I was hoping he would say oh there’s a surprise but no she should be grateful for a spoon?! Yea divorce him. Especially to say that she should get rid of this behavior. NAH RUN GIRL
“get rid of this behaviour” literally alarm bells going off lmao. talking to me like a controlling parent would to a disobedient child or pet when i’m your actual fucking partner? nah.
The newlywed post about buying the friends something of a higher value than the wife is hard to understand. Yes, it is the thought that counts, but I would generally be horrified if my husband bought me some utensils as a present (unless that is something I specifically asked for). It's the same with other gifts that should be normal 'communal usage', such as hoovers, etc. It's almost like the husband is classing it like, its not an essential, so therefore it is a gift, when clearly this is something they will both use. They should sit down and have a budget placed on what they are getting their significant other.
And silverware seems like such a bad gift. They're married, I assume they're eating with something. Unless it was something she explicitly asked for it seems really low effort.
I’m sure she tried to convince herself it’s the thought that counts but there’s no thought into the gift he got her (probably other gifts as well) she says she gets him gifts he may like like his favorite shoes and games but he can’t care enough to get her something she might actually like? It doesn’t mean he has to spend a lot but at least put thought into it. Seeing the list of his gift priorities and how he purposely gets her the cheapest, random crap pretty much solidified her suspicion that he genuinely doesn’t care enough to get her something with her in mind.
For the gift giving one, if my partner was inviteted to christmas at my moms place, then I would expect my mom to give a gift, atleast a small one so that my partner doesn't feel left out.
In response to what they said in the first story, I think you can still say some parenting practices are pretty crappy without having children of their own. We were the children at some point too and we know how some punishments effected us.
Also even if you aren't a parent, you know there is a big dangerous world out there. The teen is still the mother's responsibility. And now he is out there unsupervised all night, which seems to miss the point.
Honestly, I feel that for the dress code one, there is something between fancy dressing up and sweat pants. Wear some Jeans, a cardigan, maybe earrings or a necklace, no make-up and you look "presentable" without going overboard.
yeah i think the whole thing about the dad being more old school traditional, and the mom having had issues with the gf in the past tells me if it had been the son proposing during christmas dinner, the parents, especially the mom, wouldn't have been as upset
the ps5 one - he specified that he did get her gifts every yr! ben said it was needed context but it was given at the beginning of the post :) funny that both ben and christine didnt realize he read it out loud
When I was 19 my bf prepaid for my driver licence test for my birthday... I wasn't interested in driving due to seeing my teenage friend decapitated in a car accident. Anyway I failed and freaked out so ended up paying again and again.... got it on my 3rd attempt. In regards to the fake key situation. The MIL brought up the issue at Christmas dinner trying to expose her so she got what she deserved. Also the DIL owns the house too so she has the right to say no to has a key.
I’ve recently watched a true crime case where a parent made their kid sleep outside for coming come late, and they were abducted and killed. The first person is definitely an asshole
I would never do that (lock my child out for missing curfew) because of Paul and Karla Bernardo... that happened to one of their victims and that's how Paul was able to get her.
and its ironic because the reason for having a curfew and calling is presumably so they stay safe....so youre gonna lock them out without supervision where they could wander or get hurt anyway? counterproductive just to make a "point" the teen prob will resent anyway
Yeah, my parents gave me a curfew that was dependent upon the event and even then, the door was always open. I never even snuck out or did bad things cause I knew they would be accepting and I'd always find a way to call them if I was late or something happened.
I was conflicted on the driving one story, I didn't learn how to drive until I was 21 because I was from NYC with access to mass transit and never had the need. However since I was finishing college I thought I may need driving for my work, but while taking driving classes I found out I have massive driving anxiety, even making simple turns make me shaky. I was able to pass the test and get my license on the first try, soon after I got a car but would get anxious driving it so I sold it. At this point when I am asked to drive at work I just say I don't feel safe doing so, and I have friends that are willing to drive me (I pay for gas). The only person unhappy is my mother because she wants at least one of her kids to drive. I guess in NYC choosing not to drive is more common.
Those friends might not be so willing in the long term. I’ve been on the other side of this. A couple bucks for gas means nothing when you’re the one paying tolls, car maintenance, taxes, payments, etc ON TOP of the labor of driving every time and picking people up. It gets old fast. I’m from Philadelphia, so have a ton of friends who refused to get licenses for years. Let’s just say I had to set boundaries quick.
Yes, I live in NYC and I don’t drive. I took lessons in high school, got my permit, but never actually took the driving test because of anxiety and not really needing to drive since buses and trains will get me where I need.
I am 28 and live in a big-ish city in Germany. I do have a driver's license but I have never owned a car and drive really infrequently (only occasionally when I visit my parents who live in a small village). Many of my friends still don't own cars or don't even have the license, so for me, the girlfried seemed to be unreasonable. However, I am used to living with good public transportation so I guess that might be different in the States. So I personally don't rely on anyone to drive me.
My boyfriend and I also don’t drive and we currently live in Houston, a city known for being very car-centric. I have a permit, but haven’t taken the test bc I get anxious and haven’t practiced in a while (and also covid). My boyfriend refuses to ever learn because of environmental reasons. We get by easy with public transportation and cycling. I think as a society we need to move away from a car-centric view to a pedestrian view for the sake of the environment. Anyone who tries to force someone to learn to drive are assholes imo.
As someone with chronic anxiety and paranoia I want to thank Simply from the bottom of my heart for the "if there's a reason you can't drive" response, because yes I got my license, however driving scares me to such an extent that I get full blown panic attacks. I know I'm a good driver, however I'm afraid of everyone else. I'm just lucky to have such a caring and understanding fiancé
"Am I the a*hole for proposing at Christmas dinner" I would love seeing the reactions if that was a man who did that. Something just tells me the parents and a few people would react differently idk
In the christmas gift story, it was mentioned that the couple had kids together, and that the mother-in-law wasn’t even getting gifts from them. I feel like the focus should’ve been on the fact that the mother was not acknowledging her grandchildren or including them, essentially alienating them from her family. If I were the wife, I would feel discredited if my mother-in-law didn’t acknowledge my children enough to include them in gift giving, even if it were a small gift. The mother-in-law didn’t cite financial reasons either, so it’s safe to assume she could afford to give the kids at least something. In my opinion, the husband and mother are biased and misconstrued that the wife was upset about not receiving a gift rather than on behalf of her children. It sounds like the mother in-law is intentionally excluding the wife and not acknowledging her grandchildren. Perhaps the husband is not retelling this story accurately in order to paint his mother in better lighting. With the list of excuses at the beginning of the post, it sounds like he’s already on her side, especially when considering he barely mentioned the fact his kids didn’t receive anything from their grandmother. The whole post just seems off.
The husband is listing the excuses for his mother's behavior because he's still in denial/or doesn't realize who his mom is, i.e. narcissistic/BPD, etc. He seems to know something is off about his mother in comparison to others, but he's been trained by his family dynamic to accept ridiculous behavior as normal. It's certainly possible that his wife is mostly concerned about her not getting gifts, and he is reflecting that concern when he's talking to his mother. Most normal people would be more concerned about their kids not getting gifts, but if you grow up in a narcissistic/BPD household and you've never gotten therapy, then you have a strong tendency to marry the types of people who have been modeled to you, i.e. you'll marry a narcissist if one of your parents was a narcissist. I don't know that this is the case here, of course, I'm just trying to posit a reason for his behavior.
@@greenfuzzymonster6447 Yeah. Kids are always given the short straw in these family dynamics. You bring them out to love and fawn over if they are the kids of the "golden child," but they're usually ignored and neglected whenever it's convenient. If they're thought of at all, they're thought of rarely. It's all about the adults seeking attention for themselves. Kids come in when the adults want attention, i.e. the kid who is amazing at sports, or the kid who wins the spelling bee. The kids aren't valued for themselves; it's what their accomplishments or looks, etc. give the narcissistic parent. The whole children should be seen and not heard scenario. Good times. s/
My friend and her husband have been on the rocks. Her love language is gift giving. He got her cologne for Christmas - his logic is that if she can smell the cologne on him, it’s like a gift for her 😂 so the driving lessons AITA wasn’t far off.
This podcast brings me the same effect as the J&J podcast did 💜 It's like returning home and hanging out with nice people. Merci beaucoup à vous deux! Bonne année 💜!
I found the driving one really interesting as I am almost 23 and can’t drive. I began learning at 17 (UK driving age), spent thousands of pounds trying to learn, failed 4 tests and I finally gave up when I was 20 years old. My partner can drive and sometimes becomes irritated when he is the only one able to drive to see my family, for example, but for the most part I use public transport exclusively. I would be upset if someone bought me driving lessons as it would be a waste of their money and insulted that they’ve assumed that me not being able to drive means there is something wrong with me.
Yeah I feel about the same. I am almost 28 and can’t drive. I do not want to drive. Between now expensive it is to learn to drive, take the test get a car, insurance, car maintenance that alone is a big nope for me.. but I also have bad anxiety and wouldn’t be able to handle it. I’d be pretty upset if someone wasted a bunch of money getting me something they knew i didn’t want because they were bitter about it. I think they also missed the part where he said he takes Uber most of the time for when he needs to go anywhere and only “relies” on her if they are both going to the same place.
@@probably_notbob5794 Yeah, definitely. Completely agree. His girlfriend’a problem seemed to be about wanting to be a passenger rather than being relied on also. Although getting Ubers everywhere sounds so expensive!!
yeah i also hate how everyone tries to put a US context on this situation. like i live in a country where public transport is sufficient enough for me to never have to drive anywhere. my dad has done it. if you really don’t want to and don’t need it, then don’t do it! i do think that driving is an important life skill though. i’m on OP’s side here but i feel like maybe OP and partner maybe aren’t suited for each other if they truly can’t see eye to eye on it.
Idk OP says the GF drives to work/grocer/etc. so I think it’s safe to assume the area isn’t super walkable or doesn’t have good public transport. If a person is unable to drive when it is necessary for someone to do so, than they’re being a burden. That said, it’s not always a bad thing. Some ppl love driving or their partners take care of other chores to make the load feel more balanced. Personally I tend to enjoy driving, but just the fact that my partner can when I’m too tired or feeling sick is a comfort. If every time I decided we needed milk and hopped in the car my partner decided to “tag along” I would start to feel used after a while. I think the biggest issue with OP isn’t his lack of a license but the seeming lack of appreciation for his GF shepherding him around. He honestly comes across very ungrateful to me. As a bonus, my BF is a twin. His twin doesn’t have a license but my BF does. So he was the chauffeur any time they went to a friends house, to school, to an event, etc. As a result, my BF kinda hates driving and I get it so I’m willing to drive most of the time. But he also knows how exhausting it is to always be the chauffeur, so when I ask him to drive he does. We’re both aware of the burden of driving (it’s tiring and it actually physically pains me after about an hour), so we’re able to compromise effectively.
I don’t think the dress code for Christmas is strange - in my family we always put on something a bit nicer for pictures and just in general it’s nice to have 1 event in the year where you get the chance to wear something nicer! It may be that this is more of a Hungarian tradition but I apprieciate it. I can see how the insistence on sticking to a particular dress code may be annoying (for us it’s just “wear something nice” whatever that means to you) and especially if it becomes a competition like the post implies, but it’s not necessarily something to look down on. Also as someone who does like to dress up I feel like there aren’t many events where you get to do this so for me it’s a bonus! :)
In my state we get learner's permits at 15, and my dad insisted I get it on my birthday even though I wasn't chomping at the bit yet. His reasoning was that yeah, he and my mom could totally keep driving me places and I was a little reluctant, he wanted to know that by the time I was 20 and maybe moving out that I had five years of experience driving rather than two or three.
Well that's kinda crappy to do it the day of your birthday but maybe like the week after it's good to have driving experience before you actually need to drive but still not on your actual birthday
@@katc2040 I can see feeling that way, but I've never thought anything of it. It's really the norm where I'm from and it didn't take up enough of my day to be a problem.
I live in a midwestern state with a lot of farming towns, so getting your learner's permit at 15 is very common where I live. I was really excited to get my learner's permit. It never occurred to me that the "extra" years of driving just meant more practice and experience behind the wheel. When I started driving, I was terrified of the interstate/freeway. But the more I drove, the more I got used to it.
I’m 42 and I’m absolutely PETRIFIED to drive. The fear of driving for me is very real and horrible. I was in two really bad car accidents in my teens and then early 20’s. My phobia is so bad that I won’t drive a lawn mower, I won’t go on go-karts…nothing. My anxiety soars out of control. Friends have tried to talk to me about it and try to convince me to learn and I literally have burst into tears and gone into panic attacks about it. Even just the thought of me driving ANYTHING will cause me such great anxiety. I have put myself through driving school to face and conquer my fears but the driving instructor told me I shouldn’t even step foot in the road. Between my anxiety and adhd it’s impossible. For a long time I even had a hard time just riding in a car without the fear of crashing into someone. I have gotten better but sometimes when traffic is bad I cannot look out of the window so bury my nose in my phone. It also takes me a long time to trust someon to even ride with them. Yeah it’s pretty bad, so even taking an Uber causes me great stress. Not just the driving part, but my social awkwardness sucks. My partner of 13 years doesn’t mind I don’t drive even though he doesn’t understand. It can be crippling especially when I need to take son my somewhere like the doctors. Just figured I would share my story. 😊
Thank you for sharing ! I’m only 18 but I fear this might be me when I’m older. I absolutely can’t muster up the courage to take lessons and do the test and I feel like an outcast because I can’t drive :/ I feel like everyone silently judges me hahah
I say this all the time about my narcissistic mother who had literally manipulated me, been jealous of me, didn't even raise me aside from 3 years of my life, that simply because you didn't abort me, I don't owe you respect. That's something you earn. I initially had respect for her, if course, over the course of my 41 years of life she lost my respect... That's all there is to it, well not really, but you get what I mean. I appreciated when Cristine stated this same sentiment, more or less.
re: the dress code totally agree, wearing sweats on an already fixed formal event is so unnecessary. it's ok to not like wearing these fancy dresses (just wear something semi-formal), but purposefully under-dressing to "make a point" is a huge asshole move. re: buying myself a present if you wanted a gift for yourself on any occasion, fucking go for it. i can't understand the wife being salty about it (only acceptable if they're having financial issues). like girl, it's his money and he wanted a gift for himself, i totally see nothing wrong with that.
I bought most of my gifts this year because my husband waits until last minute and doesn't usually have anything for me come Christmas morning. I'm a bit petty for sure, but whatever 🤷🏽♀️😂
@@kkiimm12 Exactly. And there are plenty of clothing options that aren't sweat pants that are more dressy. Black slacks/jeans and nice blouse/dressy shirt for example. The purpose of a dress code is not only to respect the host who's made an effort and wants to have a certain "level" of attire from their guests but also for the guests benefit so that they know what level to dress up to (imagine if you come to a wedding in a gown and everyone else is wearing casual, you'd feel awkward) and thirdly as a sign of respect to the other guests who took time and effort to dress up as well.
@@ellabellaswe and also they could just buy one outfit and wear it every year. not the most impressive, but from what OP sounds they probably don’t care about that anyway, and they’ll still be abiding to the dress code.
I agree it's very frustrating as a person with severe driving anxiety. I am very curious to know where you live and the different types of more popular means of transportation they have there, if you wouldn't mind sharing.
Me too! I've been living in Korea for a couple years and it's been so great being able to go almost anywhere, thanks to excellent public transportation. I'm kind of dreading going back to America and needing a car to go anywhere 🙄
(edit: "held everyone up from opening presents" "went back to sleep after lunch" theres ZERO concern for why he's literally sleeping all day, and the presents thing is more about him inconveniencing the rest of the family rather than "he would miss this thing" (which he might not even want anyway). REALLY sounds like they care more about him following rules than what might be going on emotionally with their son. yikes) 1st story: its the "missing 10 calls" for me. The parent MAY be overexaggerating how easy going they are, and are actually overbearing but tbh, I had a 10 pm curfew as a teen but was never punished for being late *as long as I called*. My parents made sure to tell me the calling was just so they knew I was ok, not to monitor me, and I called. Making the kid sleep outside instead of talking to him about the date and why he's hiding all that? yeah sounds like an overbearing parent tbqh 2nd story: ok both of them seem really immature on this. AGAIN an honest discussion where both listen would fix this! the bf needs to accept that he's putting some burden on gf and learn to drive. maybe he can drive her car or drive her places in tradeoff. the gf shouldnt have spent hundreds of dollars on a "gift" that was more about pushing bf into doing something he didnt want for HER sake. A present isnt supposed to be something that solely benefits you. the whole thing is a mess.
Still not warranted for punishment. A mistake. Knowing how overprotective parents are that was probably all at once. And 11 pm isn't even that late, AND he was only an hour late. Not like 3 hours and its past midnight. Ridiculous. He's 16 not 13
As someone who was scared to drive I was so thankful when my boyfriend gifted me driving lessons at 27. I wanted to learn but was too afraid to learn from friends or family and needed professional help. I’ve been driving for 2 years now and I’m so happy he did that for me
37:45 I remember the first time I heard Cristine give this lecture, I was furious and kind of had difficulty understanding why. I was shaking, terrified, angry, with so many thoughts racing through my head like, "It's not that easy, how dare you talk about my parents like that, how is any of this not my responsibility, I can't just be a selfish brat and not care." After a year in therapy, hearing this again is a completely different experience. I'm like, "Oh fuck. So this is what reasonable expectations, boundaries, and logic sounds like when you're free."
I hope it's not weird to say I'm proud of you! I've been doing therapy for 10+ years now and I remember from the early days that accepting painful truths is by far the most difficult part about it. But there comes a point where you just let go of rigid thinking and your ego will be fine with changing-/evolving views on yourself and other people.
@@Shirumoon That is so sweet of you, I don't think it's weird at all and I really appreciate it! And I completely agree, it really is difficult because all of those cognitive distortions were survival mechanisms - and if I don't have that, what do I have to protect myself? If it wasn't my fault, how can I "control" it to make it better? Therapy (and even just free online DBT resources) have completely turned my life and my brain around, and despite everything I'm still going through, I don't think I've ever been more stable and more at peace. Thank you again for sharing your experience with me and for your very gracious comment!!!!!
The guy not driving baffles me a little bit because he explicitly stated he Ubers to and from work and yet doesn’t want a car because of the cost. I feel like the cost of Ubering for work regularly would cost more than the car in the long run. I would understand if he said that he took the bus to and from work, I live in a city with a really good bus system and many people can and do bus to and from work. I just don’t understand the logic of not wanting the cost of a car but being okay spending money to Uber to and from work all the time. Doesn’t compute to me.
As a parent of a teenager, I understand a curfew. Some places in the US, like the town I live in have a mandatory curfew for underage individuals. It's quiet late though. I generally let him do as he wishes so long as he helps contributes around the house (Im talking chores like washing his clothes etc.) Consiquences need to match the actions, but they should never result in the neglect of your minor child and refusing to let them in the house is neglect. My son doe occasionally choose to put up his tent and sleep in the backyard (he likes to camp) and I let him, but he always has access to the house/bathroom etc. Also someone else said this...why doesn't your 16 year old have a key???
I believe as long as the child is still living at home they ought to follow their parents rules for the most part unless they are totally unreasonable.
THANK YOU for saying you don’t owe your parents everything because they birthed you. As someone raised by narcissists, toxic parents who inflicted so much trauma on us and don’t respect boundaries I’ve cut them out of my life.
Narcissistic parents brainwashing their kids needs to be talked about a lot more often. It's such a huge problem for so many people, and happens more often than people realize.
Loved this episode! MIL's scare me lol Also, I wanted to say that I admire Cristine's ability to set clear boundaries with family. BUT I do also want to offer the perspective that in some cultures--and I'm only going to speak about mine (Filipino) at least--collectivism is so rooted in what we're taught and sometimes it's life-altering to just "ignore family" when they're being toxic. Somtimes it would even cause more grief to distance yourself from family than it would be to just bite the bullet and do what they ask. Especially when it's something as trivial as a dress code for family Christmas. Not saying this is healthy! In fact, I'm an immigrant who moved to the states at 4 years old and was pretty much raised to be Americanized/individualistic. My dad didn't talk to me for a year because I decided to move out for college. Years later and it's still hard for me to set boundaries with them. Anyway, I always look forward to these podcasts. They really make my Tuesdays (:
Even something as simple as changing the restaurant that family gets together at when nobody likes the restaurant is hard. Happens a lot with Asian families in America. Get togethers are at a restaurant that might not be truly hated, but nobody loves. Why not change it to something _somebody_ likes? But no, people have met up in that restaurant for years.
I'm Australian, but in my opinion, cutting off family has to be a very desperate last resort. People seem happy to cut off their families for the smallest of things these days. But we can't choose our family, and if we don't have them, who have we got? And they don't have us, who have they got? To me, it's always worth pursuing, even when it's very difficult, and not perfect, unless your life is in danger, or they're abusive (like actually abusive. Not did something that ticked you off lol) Which does happen, and then that's a different story. It's really sad to see so many broken families these days. Praying things improve with your Dad 🙂
@@katyb2793 I somewhat agree but disagree as well. Mental abuse and trauma should be treated with same kind of seriousness as physical abuse. If someone is purposefully being manipulative and toxic person to get everyone do what they want to feed their need to control the situation then it's better to distance yourself from those kinds of people. Coming from a very toxic family myself, I go to family celebrations and events but every year think how much drama and emotional and mental stress I can handle anymore.. It's just very difficult when you're in the receiving end. Also, if someone is being a bitch and treating you badly then maybe they don't deserve to be in your life anymore. Simple as that. Otherwise people will never learn and continue on this toxic, narcissistic and abusive pattern and those same patterns fuck up even more generations. When does it end then? If you are a bad person who no one wants to be with then maybe you should be alone and contemplate on why people are pushing you out of your life.. Anyway, just my opinion on this matter, everyone has their own experiences. And I get it that family relationships are difficult. One of the most difficult things in this life in my opinion. Sadly we can not choose which family we are born in to, we just have to deal with the consequences..
Giving his sister in law $250 and not giving his siblings anything. Only giving her $20 spoons that both can use, and not as personalized gift for her. I won't be more passed with this fact😤!!!
When the punishment for breaking curfew is to lock the kid out, it just screams "I'm controlling and it was never about the safety of my child"
YEP. That kid is way more in danger sleeping outside than coming home from somewhere safe one hour late
This is what chores at home are for.
Not "next time you're at the homeless shelter for a week".
That kid is never going to forgive his mom And will remember that for the rest of his life
Leslie Mahaffy was locked out of her house after missing curfew and was kidnapped and murdered.
I'd rather have my child be rebellious and coming home at 2 in the morning than never being able to see them again.
@@Catglittercrafts my friends mom used to lock her out for days when she was like 15! She forgave her mom and they are close (she’s in her 30s now) I don’t get it
All the kid learned in the first one was to just not come home if he's gonna be late
right? she think she's teaching him to come home early. instead she's teaching door's gonna be locked, might as well not even bother going home and spend the night at someone else's place
Right? Why do controlling parents think hurting their kids is gonna make the the kids respect them or love them more? If anything it’s gonna teach them that their parents are neglectful and they should anticipate the day they move out.
I hope Ben sees this... my cat Teddy is obsessed with your voice. Every time I turn on a podcast he sits on the cat tower and listens and sometimes gets close to the screen. His ears perk up every time Ben talks. It's so cute. ❤
Thats so adorable
SimplyBenlogical the Cat Whisperer™
@@aditiraman3412 he is definitely the cat whisperer ❤
Hopefully he gets to see this!! That's so cute!
@@onelovegirly I hope so too! 😊
For the story about the wife finding the list of presents: I think it does matter that the husband is spending hundreds/thousands on his friends/coworkers and only spending like $20 on his wife. Not because they didn't agree to a budget for themselves, but because of his justification for why he spent so much on them - because "they are important to him". Is your wife not as important to you as your coworkers? Also, it's just plain rude to buy lavish gifts for other people and give your wife a spoon set. I'm not saying he has to go all out for every gift, but why is he getting his SIL an expensive bracelet and not his wife? Idk maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be pissed too.
Let's stop letting men say "it's the thought that counts" when it comes to gifts for their SO, especially when there is a lot more thought given to people outside of the relationship. It's so disrespectful to spend 20x the amount on a gift for a coworker, than you did on your legal spouse.
Also, KITCHEN/HOUSE SUPPLIES/APPLIANCES ARE NOT A GIFT FOR YOUR SPOUSE!! THESE ARE A JOINT PURCHASE.
@@scuzifly 100% agree. your spouse comes first, before kids, then the kids come first.
Since he was buying spoons and they share a household he didn’t even buy her a gift.
You are 100% right
@@katybee3891 That’s such a good point! The spoons weren’t even just for her to enjoy.
The curfew story has me wondering if these teenagers don't have a key to their own home. This never would have worked on me, because I've carried a house key since I was 9 years old.
I'm assuming since they have to get home at 10 pm the mom expects to be up to let them in bc that's how overprotective parents are
Yeah it's wild. I had my key at 10, which is when I was allowed to walk to school with a friend.
Right? As a latchkey kid that story had me so confused
This comment was copied and pasted by another user with a checkmark. I'm gonna like this original one to boost it since I'm petty af
i grew up in the suburbs and didn't have a house key with me often until 18
That husband calling his wife “an ungrateful spoiled brat” is the worst thing I’ve ever heard. Please leave him it will only get worse do not have children with him my dad used to say shit like that. Sounds like a narcissist trying to gaslight you that YOU’RE overreacting. If she spent that much on coworkers he’d be PISSED
I haven’t watched that part yet but I think you’re absolutely right. My dad is a big time narcissist (too)and most of his hatred towards me and my sister was us being “ungrateful brats”. He punished us by not buying any food for us when we were with him for the week (thank the lord my mom divorced him) and he made us eat whatever food he had left in te cupboard, claiming he had bought it ‘just for us’. It was usually past expiriation date and often had mold. And he still called us spoiled for not wanting to eat this. Well anyway, hearing “spoiled brat” is a trigger for me, it just makes it clear how he thinks of the wife and it is bad
Honestly to me it’s not even that it cost $20, but that it’s so impersonal. Like he got her fucking spoons for their shared kitchen. She expressed no interest in spoons, he didn’t take into account her hobbies or job or love of things. And to spend $250 on jewelry for your sister in law and get your wife impersonal spoons is super weird and makes me think he has a thing for her. Idk.
Like if it were a $20 photo album or a hand massage cause she always complains about cramps or smth that she clearly enjoyed and was personal to her or significant to their relationship, totally different story.
I think he is right, she maybe grew up getting whatever she wants because she doesn't apprechiate ,,cheap" gifts and also needs to point out that she makes expensive gifts. Its not a gift if you expect something in return. To me the problem is that he didnt spend thought rather than money on the gift like she doesnt seem happy about the spoons. But she is def. spoiled I would never say something like that to anyone who is caring to gift me something
Yea youre right! Maybe she even told him ,, I dont want any gifts" and then still gets mad
Leaving your kid outside because they're late for curfew is exactly how Leslie Mahaffy was kidnapped and murdered.
Im not gonna give you a like because it seems weird but thats a good comment
@@majawwww I see shit like that mom leaving her kid to sleep in the treehouse and all I can imagine is: all it takes is a man like Paul Bernardo to see your kid locked out and vulnerable to take advantage of it.
@@Amsayy right though?! that's the first thing I thought when I heard that, seems like completely deliberate child endangerment.
It proves how the mom was never worried about her child's safety, she just wanted to be right and be petty about it.
Right? Isn’t the point of the curfew to have your children safe and in your care during the “dangerous hours” at night? Why would you make them stay outside after that??
About the partner gift-giving one: my boyfriend's family members have been getting me small gifts for Christmas since we started dating and he brought me home to introduce me, before we even hit the year mark on our relationship. His one grandmother has over 100 descendants but still includes me in her holiday sock giving tradition. It doesn't have to be something huge or expensive, it's just the sentiment really of feeling included. It's so odd to me that the mom wouldn't get something at least small and cheap for his wife, nonetheless anything for her grandchild? Honestly just sounds like a weird power/control thing on the mom's part.
Damn how many kids did the grandmother have
@@eritakahashi1765 I honestly can’t remember but I think over 10… there are a LOT of large families- I think the current record is 17 kids between biological and adoption in one branch- and they just keep growing. We just got engaged and I honestly am going to need a spreadsheet or something to figure out who all we are inviting to the wedding. He himself has 3 brothers and 3 half brothers
But she didn't mention not giving something to the grandchild. Also, there was no mention of the economical status. Yes, she could have given something small but to me I hate buying gifts that can be trashed. It's a waste of money, time, and effort to give something someone is going to just chuck to the side. I wouldn't want to do that. Especially if the mother is already spending money on a Christmas party. Besides, the only gift that the mother does owe are the ones to the kids and no one else. Plus it did seem like an oversight from the explanation. While yes, she may have overreacted, I don't blame her for thinking the wife is a bit entitled and complaining about it. You shouldn't ask for gifts. It's rude. Especially since you don't know someone's budget. for example, I always feel pressured to by my Goddaughter's gift, her dad (who is my friend), and his wife a gift when going to Christmas. It becomes expensive. So instead of getting something bigger for my goddaughter, I have scaled it down (to be on budget) so I can buy 3 people a gift who collectively give me one small gift. And on top of that, there's no appreciation for the gifts I do give cause they weren't grand enough even though they were thoughtful.
That's how complex it can get. It's why people shouldn't expect gifts. It becomes tricky if you do.
Agreed! We don't really do gifts in our family since there are not any kids or anything so we just do things for each other and such. But you are right about the powe control thing!
@@artsygal112 imo we need more contect. Does the wife consistently include the inlaws during xmas? It sounds like the grandkids aren't included either tho, it said wife and kids not included. Do they ALL do christmas at the inlaw's house? Cuz it's kinda weird if everyone gets at least something but not the spouses?
In reference to the nightmare mother-in-law house key story, why the hell would you not lie and play it off??? “Oh gosh, I must have given you the wrong key! I was making copies of my shed key too and I must have given you the wrong one, I’m SO sorry!!” And then of course proceed with the whole “but why were you using it during a non emergency?” public shaming bit 👌
Omg yes!!! Then it would really make her look like the asshole 😂😂
She still would’ve thrown the tantrum and the husband would still scold OP. Husband needs therapy.
@@katrinascarlet5637 op needs to divorce him
@@katrinascarlet5637 That's true, with the context given I think even then they'd find reason to be unreasonable
imagine your new husband getting you $20 spoons for the house as a christmas gift when he dropped thousands on gifts for his co-workers. what a way to show where your priorities lie. if i were her, i'd return the expensive gifts i'd bought for him and get him something within their apparent budget. raid the dollar store or whatever. but then i am a petty b.
I definitely would have been at the court house on the 3rd..
I don't thinks it's extremely petty.
He's known his friends for years, he married her.
Big red flag honestly. He even said that he spends so much because they're important to them. So the wife apparently isn't. And a spoon set? How personal... Might have even bought it for himself.
I would be like hiring a private investigator to see if I need to get my marriage annulled… it’s so sketchyyyyyy it doesn’t make any sense!
I feel like it’s less about the ammount of money and more about the lack of thought in the gift
With the partner giving the $20 spoons gift... Idk. If I was her I would seriously reconsider that relationship.
It's not necessarily that his gift for her is an issue, it's that context is making it seem like he doesn't value her.
1. Cost of a gift isn't necessarily an expression of how much someone means to you. Some people cannot afford big gifts and some people just aren't big gift givers. However, if he's buying friends and coworkers gifts in the $1k range and his wife a gift in the $20 range, something seems off.
2. Some gifts aren't expensive but are valuable in a sentimental sense, but a $20 set of spoons for the kitchen doesn't sound valuable in this sense either. In fact, it seems less thoughtful than the gifts he got for others. It's not even a "fun" practical gift like an air fryer or instant pot or cake pan or something along those lines where it's unnecessary but fun.
3. This only matters in some circumstances, but if she's the one who does the majority of the cooking and it's not a hobby for her, it kinda seems like a "here's something to use when you cook me supper, woman" type of gift which is worse than just being thoughtless in a normal sense. I know that in the majority of relationships I've seen amongst my friends, the woman does end up doing most of the cooking.
4. When confronted over it, it doesn't sound like he was sympathetic at all. He didn't say the gift was smaller because it's what they exchanged in the past whereas work and friends tend to exchange large ticket items, he didn't apologize and express any sort of reason for his behavior or sympathy for her, he immediately went on with name calling and telling her how his coworkers and friends are important to him (which is fair, but he's also implying that she, as his WIFE, means less to him than his coworkers or friends since her gift was so much smaller)
Like, if my partner didn't have much money and got me spoons, or if spoons were what I wanted, or if my partner wasn't big on gifts, I would be happy to get spoons and grateful that my partner thought of me.
If my partner was shelling out the cash on expensive, thoughtful gifts for coworkers and friends and got me a cheap set of cooking utensils to cook him supper with and THEN didn't even take a moment to think through why it hurt my feelings and just called me spoiled or something along those lines? I would be asking myself some hard questions about the sustainability of the relationship.
And he bought a $300 bracelet for his sister in law? So, just to reiterate, he spent 20 buck on a thoughtless gift for his WIFE but 300 bucks on a nice gift for his BROTHER'S WIFE??! not only is that a kick in the gut for his wife, but that's just awkward as hell for both his brother and his sister in law as well.
Unless the sister in law is the wife's sister, which would arguably be even worse. I can't imagine my fiance giving me some crappy spoons and my own sister an expensive bracelet. That would probably be the end of our relationship...
@@ivagrasmeijer5530 To be honest, if my partner gave my sister or his sibling's wife a 10x more expensive and meaningful gift than me, I'd probably be wondering if he's interested in her or even cheating with her. There's no logical reason why that should happen, even if he's trying to "impress" her. Especially if he proceeds to say, "She's important to me and I like her" (included in the statement that his coworkers and such are important to him) when it's made clear I'm not as important.
Espresso Machine Story: OP should tell GF what happened. GF should give the machine back to the friends and accept BF's gift. Let the friends worry about returning. That is a sh*t thing to do to someone.
Actually that's a perfect solution because not only can OP "regain the loss," but also the "friends" would bear a tangible consequence for their sh*tty actions. I cannot imagine being that comfortable to waste such a huge amount of money just to one-up someone.
If my kid missed the curfew by an hour one night, the worst punishment I would give him would be that his curfew for the next day would be an hour early. That's the only punishment I can think of that could be fair. It's not like he's missing for the whole night.
The curfew, however, really depends on where you live. I live in NYC, the Bronx, which is not exactly the safest neighborhood, so I can understand the 10 pm curfew. It sucks, but it's out of safety concern. If my kid's at a safe place, like a friend's house past 10 pm, that's fine, but I would pick him/her up to come home, or make sure that they drive instead of walking.
Yeah, but if the early curfew was because of a dangerous neighborhood, then the last thing I would do would be make the kid sleep outside in winter in said dangerous neighborhood
@@Sauti_science I totally agree. Like there needs to be rationale for the curfew and punishment. If it's not safe out, then that makes sense for the curfew. But locking them outside is wild. If the kid was really breaking curfew to be unsafe, he could have literally just upped and left and went to sleep elsewhere. That punishment makes absolutely no sense. If anything a punishment could be like not being allowed out next Saturday or something.
Yeah I agree, I don't think 10pm is that unreasonable. They could always ask you first if they wanted to stay out later, and you could give them permission so long as you knew where they were going etc...
If that person has a treehouse they don’t live in NYC I think she’s just a controlling person all the way around.
@@Sauti_science yeah I think the tree house is unacceptable no matter where they are.
In the gift question, it's weird to exclude partners for sure but I think it's more weird for parents to purchase "lavish" gifts for adult children, and to also not purchase gifts for babies who are in fact biological Grandchildren? That is wild to me - it'd be more normal to just not give gifts at all, give gifts only to children, or give modest gifts to all adults who will be present. To give your biological child a "lavish" gift and ignore thier committed partner of 5 years and thier CHILD seems REALLY manipulative, which is then confirmed by her massive tantrum of "I just wont have Christmas at all then."
If she wants to buy lavish gifts she could get her kid and their partner something like a coupon for a weekend away in an hotel or something else they can enjoy together.
yeah. i mean my family never bought lavish gifts, because we couldn't afford that, and so my grandparents would buy gifts for me and my sister, and maybe if they had money to spare they'd buy a little something for my parents. whenever my grandparents came to visit, the gifts were all basically for me and my sister, with maybe a box of chocolates for my parents. because that's sorta what christmas has always been, giving gifts to the kids
Totally agree. What's going to happen once the kid gets older? The OP's going to go to Christmas dinner and his wife and child gets excluded from the gift giving? That'll go over like a lead balloon. My 3 YO nephew wants to open everyone's present - not just his own. That's something every kid goes through I think. It's best that they put the kibosh on this now before it does psychological damage to their child. Totally abnormal behavior for sure, and the OP should stay strong. His wife is not "entitled" or "childish" by expecting a gift for her and/or the baby. The OP has a very simple request that has an easy solution, but Mommy Dearest would rather create drama and hurt people then listen, empathize and bend to someone else's needs. The mother is manipulating everyone to get her way, and her son is in denial if he doesn't realize she knows exactly what she's doing. Typical narcissistic/BPD behavior to pick on the black sheep, and that's exactly what the mother is doing. Ugh.
I came to the comments to see if anybody else thought this too, she's not buying a gift for her grandchild?!? I find it strange that that was mentioned almost in passing at the start of the story and that wasn't the OP's main argument moving forward!
It kind of seems that she enjoys giving lavish gifts but cannot afford them for every family member, so instead of downsizing and giving everyone something less expensive, she limited the number of recipients. My family never gave lavish gifts, because we hate that pressure, but I know some people that feel like they have to spend a lot of money on gifts and they are stuck in that mindset.
The one about the divorce and the dad inviting the Son in law...that is such a red flag for the fact that the husband WAS controlling. He manipulated her parents to make them believe he's a saint and so lonely at Christmas to either see her or to isolate her away from her own family. Nothing about that story was good
Hi Mary, I have 3 adopted daughters who are not my biological children, but they are my children, I get very sensitive about the topic. I am sorry If I have offended you in anyway. Happy New Year to you and yours!
Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing! The husband sounded manipulative as fuck, and the daughter, while not really in the right because cheating is terrible, probably had some insight into the relationship the parents didn't.
I have a feeling there’s a reason he couldn’t visit his family for Christmas. Probably is a general asshole, especially for accepting an invitation to his ex wife’s Christmas dinner? So many red flags.
YEEEES!!! The ex is SOOO MANIPULATING THE DAD!!! So sad. Run dad run.
My mom gets upset if my family brings anyone as a guest to Christmas without telling her, especially children, because she doesn't want anyone to feel excluded. She actually started keeping sort of 'generic' gifts that most people would enjoy so if she needs a last minute gift for someone she didn't realize was there she can. Also I'm disturbed on how a mother-in-law doesnt consider her child's partner and her grandchild as family? Thats sort of the whole idea of marriage is it not?
Yeah like forget aunts and uncles… she doesn’t buy a gift for her GRANDCHILD?!
your mother is an absolute gem
My mom has always done that too, and I inherited the habit haha! It can come in handy when you have a sudden need for a little present, like a secret santa at work or at a xmas party, or someone’s housewarming party or when you have just forgotten a friends bday is coming up. The last time I needed my stash was when I had a friend who I see very rarely cos he lives so far away, was in town, and wanted to go for a lunch. It was december already, I had planned on sending him and his gf just a self made card and scratch tickets which I’m sure he would have appreciated (he hasn’t usually gotten me any physical present he’s just been thoughtful in other ways like offered to buy me coffee etc). I wanted to give a proper gift but paying for postage would have cost too much. But since he was in town it meant I didn’t have to pay postage so even though I hadn’t prepared anything specific for them I could gather a little physical gift from what I had and added the card and tickets to it :)
I've found a good generic gift to have in lieu or on short notice is chocolate/sweets of some kind (unless you know the person doesn't like or is allergic to them obviously). I've had a few last minute relatives invite themselves, and chocolates always go down well without leaving anyone feeling excluded!
I mean I get that, but I think in that particular story it turned out the wife had actually been quite awful to the mom which justifies her behaviour. Not considering your grandchild family however does seem unfair, regardless of the opinion of your daughter in law.
It's fascinating how many of these have to do with narcissistic partners and parents. It's insane how narcissists manipulate other people to shift the blame from them. For the record, my parents would never be upset if one of my siblings was proposed to at Christmas dinner. Likewise, they would never cancel Christmas over a dispute about gift giving. It's sad to see how children of narcissistic parents unfortunately fall into their trap (like thinking it's the son's fault that the mom cancelled Christmas rather than just agreeing to disagree and moving forward). I feel for anyone out there living with a narcissist!
That has to be so stressful for their SO's so see it and can't get through the brainwashing.
HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THIS!
I agree. If the time of year is special to someone, you're surrounded by the people you love, etc., I feel like that's a perfect place to propose. I feel like for the mom to say it was her special day and it got hijacked completely disregards the whole idea behind gathering for the holidays.
I was surprised to see the a-hole tag on the proposal story, meaning people mostly agreed it was bad. Like maybe weird but it's just another thing to celebrate as a family! It's great sign that she felt comfortable to do it in her bf's family imo
@@Myrilia His family was so weird though.
Mom is like - you stole my Christmas!
Dad - A WOMAN?! Proposing? How hold is he?
I'd stay away from that family.
What happens when she announces her pregnancy? "You've ruined Ground Hogs Day forever!".
@@recoil53 oh i agree with you, i'm sure the idea of tradition the parents have played a big part in their reactions to their DIL and i disagree with it. I would have a hard time with a family like that 😅
In regard to the coworker gifts one I side with the wife. If the husband is spending thousands of dollars on his friends while he wouldn’t even give an iota of thought or effort into his new wife’s gift I’d be pissed too. The fact that it was a cheap set of spoons as a present for their first Christmas as a married couple shows that he did not care to actually put thought into his wife’s gift as he did for people that weren’t his literal WIFE.
Literally this. It's not even just about the drastic difference in cost, it's that they were spoons for THEIR house. It wasn't even something for her
same! it’s not really about the cost of the present, but the fact that he’s not prioritising his own wife. you can get a really meaningful and thoughtful gift for 20 dollars too, but spoons sound like he was in a store and remembered his wife exists too and picked up the first thing he saw
Exactly! His response when she asked him why he was spending so much was “because these people mean something to me and I like them”….uhhh, do you not feel that way about your WIFE?!
@@neonorange44 You'd think that as he said the words he'd figure it out.
Wait! The mom who doesn’t give gifts to the wife also doesn’t give gifts to their child (her grandchild). It’s one thing that she doesn’t gift anything to the wife but to give “lavish” gifts to the son and ignore the grandchild too… something is not right there
YES! Thank you. What grandmother doesn't want to spoil her grandbaby??
It seems like she just doesn’t like the sons family since she was so quick to cancel Christmas
Seems like the mom dislike the husband's wife, and doesn't want to associate with her at all. You don't jump from liking someone to seeing them as a "whiney child" (or similar). Yikes!
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who immediately thought this! Odd to not get gifts for your own grandchild
Some weird ass jealousy there
Haha, curfew story time. I was TWENTY years old, very responsible. I had an 11pm curfew. I was at my boyfriend's house (he lived with his parents, so we were not alone) and he had just been hired at a new job. He was a bit overwhelmed by the big load of work they gave him that first week, and I was helping him go through it (a lot of data sheets to pour through). I called my mom a handful of times to update her on how it was going since it was getting late. She told me to hurry, dad was getting antsy. I checked in again around 10:45pm to let her know we were almost done (but it was an hour drive) so we would be late, but I'd call again when we left. She told me to leave IMMEDIATELY because dad was furious. We finished quickly and left at 11pm. I called to say we were on our way. She said dad was livid. We got back, and my dad stormed out of the house and told my boyfriend to never, ever return, he was not allowed to see me anymore. Once again, I was TWENTY years old. He then took my phone from me. So I had no car, no phone. I moved out that night. It had been a long time coming. Fifteen years later, married to the guy for twelve years now, AND living in my childhood home (the same home he was told never to return to). My parents live next door. My dad still has a lot of anger issues but it took me moving out to start the process of him seeing me as an adult. Boundaries needed to be set. They respect my decisions, choices, and family dynamic.
curfew at 20yrs old? 🤣 oh dear
When I lived with my parents I paid a majority of the rent, so I'd get out of work late about 11 or 12 some nights and while I did have a house key my parents would constantly lock the top lock that NONE of us had the key to open and they'd be asleep so I'd sleep in my car some nights.. it was irritating at the very least
@@steph_lopez its not okay for your mom to control you with her anxiety. This probably sounds harsh to you, but that is her problem and something she needs to work on. Do not let her prevent you from living the life you want, you only get one life! Just in case you need to hear that.
@@beato1733 wow that is so shitty! God why do ppl treat their kids like prisoners or slaves, or like fucking punching bags.
@@KD-ou2np I wish I knew, but it's weird cause they do all that and then wonder why I dont talk to them any more it's like hello lol
Are we not suspicious of the husband buying his sister in law a fancy $250 bracelet but his wife spoons?
He also bought his buddy a $650 watch.
Otherwise I'd say yes.
Just think of what he got his mistresses
@vala p underappreciated comment 👌👌👌
Yes I am bloody am !! Sorry if my fella got me SPOONS and another woman a bracelet ??!
I mean you could rationalize it that he wants to impress the sister in law, because who wants to be hated by their in laws? No one.
I think he told his gf's friends that he was getting the espresso machine early so no one else would get the same thing. I told my bf I was getting some 35mm film for his sister's camera. And my bf got her some nice camera straps to add to her setup. His mom told us that she's getting the other sister a barista, so I got that sister some turmeric elixir to make turmeric latte with (she likes turmeric).
In general, or ideally, it should be nice to communicate within the family or friend group when it comes to gifts, unless your friends suck like those ones in the subreddit. That's very unfortunate for the bf, he probably didn't anticipate the friends to be so incredibly inconsiderate.
It definitely sounds like there must be more to the story. But either way asking for a refund is dumb in my opinion. Of course they arent going to pay you.
Yes, it's an expensive thing that nobody can use two of.
@@silverkyre True. He shoulda talked to his gf about it. If he got the gift first, the gf should take his espresso machine instead of her friend's. And the friend can try to return that espresso machine or deal with it however. I don't know why the gf took her friend's espresso machine and not his...
@@vaaance710 he never gave it to her it sounds like she didnt know. He was gonna give to her for Christmas and they gave it to her for her birthday in November Youre right that would be the only reasonable thing to do
@@silverkyre Oh okay, I thought it was both for Christmas, I missed that part. That makes a little more sense now. Wow. That really sucks for him.
If I found out that my partner’s spent $20 on a gift for me and $900 on a gift for their friend, I would be so weirded out. Am I the only one who would worry they were cheating on me? I’m pretty secure, but that’s like a “secret second family” level of price discrepancy to me 😳
At that point I'd be worried that I was the secret second family from this guys real family
I totally agree. That would be a huge red flag to me as well.
If that's true, it's very strange. Wouldn't he spend big to keep up appearances and make her not suspect anything? Unless he did it on purpose in order for them to get divorced? Weird all round.
@@wolfferoni he wouldn’t be spending big time keep up appearances with his partner, obviously he’s a big spender with the “friend”
i think the espresso guy decided to not keep it a secret to his gf's friends to kinda tell them not to gift it to her.
That’s a really shitty thing for her friends to do! If I were her I’d be pretty pissed at them, tell them to return it and keep the one from my boyfriend. Had he not told the friends he was getting that for her it’d be a different situation but it just seems petty and childish and honestly quite disrespectful to try to beat him to the punch. Especially considering it wasn’t an inexpensive item
This!
IKR? This is so common for me that I was honestly confused how they didnt get it ^^;
Or maybe he was just excited about it
The real question regarding the proposal story is, would they be just as angry if the son was the one who proposed?
And also, is this dinner specifically for the mom? If its a FAMILY dinner shouldn’t it be wonderful to see your son get engaged at such a familial event?
@@thebelles8060 Yes! I understand people who propose at big events: everyone is there! Everyone can celebrate a bit, everyone knows about it immediately, it's nice! I don't see how something that will last at most half an hour can "ruin" a multi hour (or even multi day!) event.
Yeah see, I kinda thought it would be fine since it’s a family dinner, the family is already there, it could be a cute memory for the whole family to remember.. Maybe I’m wrong or I’m too young to understand proper social rules?
I have a feeling the woman has a habit of being attention seeking by acting “woke” and by her proposing didn’t come off as a genuine special event to witness but just her trying to get attention at the fact that’s SHE’s proposing as a female, in the middle of dinner.
@@roygbiv9038 that's a lot of assuming Susan. She didn't even mention that dynamic until she mentioned that her father in law seemed to have an issue with it.
The mom in that one who wasn’t getting gifts for her son’s wife, he mentioned that she wasn’t getting gifts for his baby, either. That means she also was excluding her grandchild from gifts. Surely grandchildren should be included in the gift giving/getting, even if partners aren’t. (Though I think partners should be as well.)
Or simply adress the gift to the whole family
Seems like she hated the wife and children by extension 😬. Or she grew up very poor with very strict parents. Either way the husband doesn't seem to see his mom honestly.
I don’t think partners should be entitled up gifts from their partners parents. I have never expected anything from my husband’s family. We didn’t even get Xmas presents for the kids from them. No biggie.
I mean she could atleast get a couple's gift. I think it runs deeper as the mum mentioned that she doesn't think it's her responsibility to Holst Xmas every year. Maybe she is old and it's too stressful so they should take it in turns to host Xmas. I think she used the gift thing as a reason to get away from it all. She is still an a hole regardless.
The proposal at Xmas dinner seems so overblown, like omg. It's just Christmas. It's a traditional time of year, but nowhere near the same level as a wedding, birthday, anniversary etc. If the boyfriend loves Christmas then it seems like the perfect time to propose! The mother needs to get over herself. Instead of accepting it as an enhancement to her day, she chose to view it as a threat. Ridiculous.
💯
Yeah it’s absurd Christmas dinner is friends and family . If your going to propose in front of people a family dinner would be that time. The mother in law is clearly just pressed about her son marrying her. *not good enough for my baby boy syndrome *
I laughed so hard at their "eyyy" and fistbump, that's a healthy relationship right there
AITA eps are my fave from the pod! I love hearing them discuss and digest these types of situationssss ❤️
Yes I love these
You should check out the podcast 2 hot takes! These are my 2 favorite channels ❤️
@@Mushroomsoup1674 omg thank u so much!!!! Time to binge watch their vids 🥰
Same
My husband from the other room:
"I think the mother in law walking in on her son and daughter in law in bed was a problem that should have immediately solved itself" 🤣
About the driving lesson story: I got my license when I had just turned 20. Learning to drive was absolutely nerve wracking thought for me. I'm glad that I had people around me that were willing to wait until I was ready to start the lessons and didn't pressure me. If I had gotten driving lessons as a gift I would have been so upset.
In the story there was obviously a problem but they should have resolved by discussing it and not just give the lessons as a gift. So I kind of understand the writer here.
I agree. I got my license when I was 21 though I had started lessons at 17, but it took so long for me because I developed bad anxiety around 18 and had trouble trusting myself to drive. Getting a license “later” in life can be justified, but in the case of this story I can understand the writer.
got my license with 18 but almost failed, I have really bad driving anxiety and my driving teacher even accused me of talking pills/ being on drugs bc of how anxious I am!! Only made my anxiety worse and I refuse to buy a car now bc I just cant handle the stress. Totally understand when somebody does not feel okay enough to drive, it doesn’t mean they‘re selfish or not independent.
I would have understood if he had expressed a fear, but it kinda sounded like he made half baked excuses just because he doesn't want to... I'm not OP, but driving can be a really important skill in the case of even minor emergencies.
I got my license late so I understand that but what I don’t like is that the OP basically said why do I need a license when she can just drive me around. I hated having to rely of other people but the OP just sounds super entitled
@@MadHatta555 Right? Folks are giving dude too much credit with this "driving anxiety is legit" thing. Dude needs to get out of the crib and stop expecting his girlfriend to be his chauffeur.
Signed - lady who got her license at THIRTY-TWO.
The mom who won't buy gifts for their kids' partners is absolutely the AH in this situation. My mom has been buying Christmas gifts for my husband since before we were even engaged, and my MIL has done the same for me. Your kid's partner (if they are married or in a long-term relationship) should be considered an extension of them. IMO it's really rude to exclude them, not to mention your own grandchild! It's not like you even have to spend a lot of money (which it seems like she could if she wanted to, considering she's buying her own kids "lavish" gifts). Just a little something to show you give a crap would be fine. And then to throw a tantrum and basically hold Christmas hostage? What a petty manipulative weirdo. And the fact that the sisters are on the mom's side just show she's a tyrant who's brainwashed the whole family.
Yes, excluding the partner AFTER MARRIAGE is an open statement that they are _not_ part of the family.
She had time to get used to the idea. Mom has dealt with all kinds of change in the world in her life.
I think its a culture thing. The issue was buying such lavish stuff and overrrrrrreacting
in the sweatpants thing, i think it's 50/50, because the mother in law definitely puts way too much emphasis on christmas and wants everyone to be dressed up like they're going to a gala just to show it off, probably even shares family pictures with her friends to show how great her christmas is. but the woman definitely needs to find a happy medium. showing up in sweats when everyone else is dressed up is kinda disrespectful, it shows you literally don't care about being there. so find a happy medium and dress like if you were going to a church service or an office job, so it's more casual-formal and not just straight up casual
I agree. Wearing appropriate clothes is a respect thing. Idk if it’s just the way that I was raised but I think dressing appropriately is still important.
I don't think mother-in-law is unreasonable. I would love to have a dress-up party for Christmas. Just to make it more special. It happens only once a year. I don't need to dress up anywhere else in my life. So, that would be exciting. Therefore, I definitely think that the OP was in the wrong trying to undermine MIL. If someone invites you to the party they dictate the rules and dress code is one of them.
@@100MilesEast MIL: Family Christmas! Please dress up for the festive occasion.
DIL: You're not the boss of me. But I'll still take space in your house and eat your food.
The key situation: sounds like she married the wrong dude, mama’s boy.
freud would love that drama
Lol which story
@@Ju-gw6uq I was thinking of this
@at me 24:24
Yessss !!! Came looking for this 😂😂
What gets me about the first story is the kid was only an hour late so in that hour she ran around the house gathering bedding and setting up a new bed outside? It doesn't really make sense unless the parent was like waiting and plotting this out for anytime curfew was broken, which would make her petty and definitely an asshole. It's not some spur of the moment reaction, she planned this punishment clearly. V
yeah, i agree. when the kid came home the mom texted him, so she could've just gotten to the front door and opened it for him. i find that really weird
Yeahhh she was just pissed he missed all her calls. She wanted to be petty bc he was petty to her 🤣 I think grounding him for a few days would've been more a effective deterrent/a safer option. In hindsight maybe she sees that. Plus 10pm curfew on holidays/weekends for a 16yo is pretty strict 😬
She knew her teenage son was out shagging an unknown girl. Lol Especially with him not answering her 10 calls. Don’t agree with what she did. But him going out on a date till 11 on Christmas Eve over wanting to spend time with her and the family probably made her feel some type of way. Dad woulda cared if it was his daughter out late on a date with an unknown guy on Christmas Eve. But cuz it was his son he wasnt worried. She over reacted though
My dad locked the door on my younger sister once and pretended he didn't hear her knock on the window, he was still awake and downstairs. So she went back to my aunt and uncle's who live a few minutes walk away, and slept in my nieces room. Didn't give him the satisfaction hé wanted. I laughed so hard when she told me!
I would never lock my kid out of the house, wtf!
Do you mean in your cousin's room? Otherwise why does your siblings' child live in your aunts house.
@@sierrachantellI wouldn't either! My dad was a difficult man.
@@kycrush8657 my cousins room! In Dutch language we use the same words for nieces/nephews/cousins. I'll keep it in mind, thnx!
@@bartina2719 sounds like it 😭
Cristine talking about how no one makes Christmas gift lists like that hahaha. I literally do that because I try to stick within a budget for people and I buy stuff kinda all year long so I’m not super stressed at Christmas time. So a list of what I bought and how much it was helps me remember what I may have bought in June, make sure I got my item in (I order from Etsy a lot) & makes sure I’m not going way over budget because I bought someone 3 $50 gifts different times in the year but I only budget for $100. It helps me especially with my best friend and boyfriend because I have a tendency to overspend on my boyfriend and I buy stuff every time I see something that makes me think of my best friend and I almost always forget at least one item when wrapping her gifts!
I started this in 2020 and it’s helped me so so much!
I make a list because I’m worried about forgetting someone important
I have made lists like that in the past because I noticed my uneven spending habits and wanted to get everybody about the same amount/size gift. So if it was a balancing/budgeting list...He failed. Lol
I also make detailed list as I shop for Christmas gifts all year. I started doing it when I realized I had difficulty paying January bills and learned it was because I was spending 3-500$ for all the kids in the family. To this day I make that list.
My mom does this and she has kept the lists in the same book for like 5 years now so she doesn’t buy the same things for people every year. She’s literally the cutest.
@@mary.w.same! I started mine because I was always having issues paying my cc off in Jan-Feb. so I also set aside a little from each paycheck in Jan-Nov to cover gifts as well lol
I think the wife whose husband is spending a huge amount of money on his coworkers and not his own partner is ridiculous. Regularly, you would want to get a nice gift for your partner and not treat them as an afterthought.
It’s weird his response was “I get them nice gifts because I care about them” but does he not care about his wife lol?
I had to go back and make sure I heard the "decent jobs" part correctly. I have great coworkers and we usually only give each other snacks.
Also with the treehouse one the fact that the husband was pissed at his wife and said she was overreacting just shows they are not together on the parenting front and she makes rash, harsh decisions. I think the punishment should be at least discussed and if the dad was that upset he should have went outside to get the kid. Sounds like she is very controlling
I'm confused as to how the dad got all the way through the morning without realizing his son was outside. I mean, *maybe* dad goes to sleep so early that by the time son skipped curfew at ten he was out and mom didn't wake him up, but if dad tends to be more reasonable than mom, why wasn't son texting dad? You'd think as a parent you'd whitelist your kids' calls to get through to you even on DND, so this means that son never bothered to call his dad (which likely means dad backs up mom more often than not), dad ignored it so as not to set mom off, or mom stole dad's phone so he wouldn't get the notifications.
Curfew story: Yeah YTA... but more importantly, that was ILLEGAL in many states.
You can't deny entry of a legal resident into a residence. The son could (and should) have called the non-emergency number to the police. They can send a unit and remind the parent they are required to let the child in.
Punsihment only works if it is used as a last resort, if you punish a kid for anything and everything it just stops having any impact, especially with teens. My mom was and still is great, I think, she only punished if we did something actually bad and dangerous. I actually was almost never punished in my life, because I never resented her and acted right. My brother was more complicated but my mom will just explain to him why she's concerned, and he doesn't want to upset her so he tries to do better.
I bet they never came home late again
Love these episodes! It would be fun on some of these if you also looked at the comment consensus. The replies can be interesting, and it's always nice to see if our own reaction matches the group or if we have a totally different perspective.
I have some friends who never went beyond the written driving lessons and limited practice because of the panic attacks it would cause. I 100% support this decision because if you don't feel comfortable driving a huge hunk of metal at high (or even low) speeds because you are worried you'll hurt yourself or others then THANK YOU for not driving.
Edit: typo
A car is a death machine. Literally. If some one doesn’t feel safe handling a huge dangerous machine which is capable of such harm, than they shouldn’t be forced. Plain and simple!!
yea but this is a 26 yr old grown man. at that point it’s their responsibility to handle their own transportation and not seem dependent on others… anxiety or not
@@stephanieruiz9969 he has figured it out though. He takes a bus or an Uber. He’s not dependent on the girl, she infact could Uber with him if she didn’t want to drive. And he expressed entirely being able to afford it. I think she’s more embarrassed by him
@@siennalewis1088 idk just seems like he's stubborn. Unless I missed it, it doesn't seem like it comes from a place of anxiety. He seemed to say it's about money, but to uber would be expensive, especially everyday to go to work.
I agree with you, but he never mentioned any problem of that sort
Any parent who locks their teenagers out of the house are just bad parents who will force their kids into bad and dangerous situations just so they don't have to sleep rough, freeze, or starve.
If by any chance you are a child in this situation and have access to a phone, the best thing to do is call child services as if you are under age they will pick you up find you a safe place to stay
It's legitimate abuse
Someone brought up Leslie Mahaffy in another comment, and they’re right to do so. Her mom locked her out, and she was murdered. The risk is so real.
And then blaming the teen for holding up the opening of presents because he was tired.
Have him wash more dishes or something.
@@recoil53 Yes! That's an appropriate response to breaking the rule! "Son, you broke curfew by an hour so you're going to be doing the washing up for the Christmas meal. Don't do it again, I worry about you" not "I'm petty and controlling and the rule isn't actually because I want you to be safe but so I can control where you go and when. Sleep outside as punishment" !!!
The PS5 one is really sad. I know nothing about their relationship, financial situation, or the other persons perspective, but seriously? The poster obviously respects their partner enough to at least communicate they WANT a Christmas present, and were their wants were “considered” and in the end ignored. A PS5 may have been a little extravagant, but I don’t think it’s childish to get a gift for yourself if your partner fails to come though for you. Jeez.
Am I the a hole are my favorite segments!!!! Makes my workday way betterrrrr! Thank youuuu!
Regarding the lady who gave her MIL a fake key:
My boyfriend was living with his mom when we first started dating. It was more of a convenience for the both of them rather than a money thing. A few years later, mom decided to marry her long-time boyfriend and move to Florida, selling her house to my boyfriend for a fairly low price.
Thing is his sister and aunts are just like the MIL, very nosey and pokey, but on top of that very greedy. Mom took a lot of her stuff, even putting some stuff in storage, my boyfriend spent two weeks going through the house and throwing away anything that was left that he didn't need (trash moldy welcome mats and old Christmas lights, etc.) Even so, he would occasionally get knocks on his door or they would call him up asking if he knew where random stuff is.
I was actually house-sitting for him one weekend when he went to a convention (not my thing) when his sister and two aunts walked in. Like, you could tell she didn't expect to see me and tried to pass off the fact that she was breaking in as "looking for an old yearbook". He had guessed that they were using his spare key to break into his house because of the random messes he would find. He was pretty sure they were looking for anything they deemed "valuable" or "antique" or (according to them) "family treasures" to literally steal.
I jumped up and said, "Yeah, let me text him to see if he's seen it anywhere." and proceeded to follow them around the house. They were like, "Oh, don't bother him." and I was like, "Well, this is his house, so he has a right to know if somebody comes in to look around."
I think the thing that pissed me off the most was that he was a non-person to them. It wasn't "his house" he was just babysitting it for his mom, and he was too male to be the keeper of any "family treasures". Like, bitches, whatever his mom left in the house she intended to be for him. If she wanted you to have anything she would have given it to you.
And they wonder why we go to *my* families' for holidays.
Yes, he changed the location of the spare key after that.
These posts really make me appreciate my step mom. My husband and I (no kids) don't always spend Christmas together because if his family and my family plan them on the same day we don't stress ourselves by driving to both. I just go to mine and he goes to his. I have a best friend who doesn't have any family to spend holidays with (her dad passed when she was a child and she cut her mom out of her life due to her mother's toxic behavior) so for the last few years she's come to my Christmas. Sometimes it's with my husband too and sometimes just the two of us go. My step mom has never put up a fuss about me bringing my bestie and she always makes sure to get her something small because she would feel bad about her coming and having nothing to open. My friend doesn't expect to get anything she is always very appreciative. I understand that most people wouldn't feel the need to get their adult step daughter's adult friend a gift and of course we wouldn't expect it. But it just shows what a nice person she is to not only encourage her to come every year (one year my friend didn't come because she had started to feel bad about "mooching" off my family and my step mom actually called her and told her she really wanted her to spend holidays with us and not alone) but that she also goes out of her way to find her small gifts she might like. Really great woman.
That’s so sweet! I have women like this in my family too and it really does make you feel loved and included.
Nice, 😁
My husband and I have also gone to each respective famiies dinner separately some years as well.
Also we have asked that one side of the family have a dinner Christmas Eve and one on Christmas day which has also been great for everyone.
The MIL with the emergency key, I unfortunately can relate! My boyfriend and I gave keys to his parents and my parents to our house, just for emergencies. Well my boyfriends mom has come in unannounced twice during our work days to “put food she made us in our fridge”
One of these times was during the beginning of the pandemic, and I was temporarily laid off from work. So I heard someone walking around the house and I was terrified someone broke in. When I saw it was her I was pissed. My bf & I were also being very careful during the pandemic, and his mom just lived her life like it was 2019, so I had to deep clean the house after! (Mind you this was April 2020 when we were supposed to be social distanced from other households)
We have ring cameras in and out of the house
So when I reviewed the footage she was touching and looking at a bunch of our stuff and kept petting our 2 dogs! (We didn’t know if we would get Covid from our dogs fur or not at the time…)
The 2nd time it happened we took her key from her lol
We live in a state with cold winters & have an enclosed porch. The food would be fine outside for a few hours until we got home.
I've been with my partner for 7 years. We had been together for 2 months when we spent our first Christmas together. I wasn't expecting anything from his parents, but they included me in the gift giving process. I didn't expect nor receive anything lavish from them, but being included felt nice. Now, 7 years later, my in-laws treat me and my partners BIL as if we were their own kids. We get our own gifts plus gifts we share with our partners. I think it really depends on the family, but if your kids have partners then you should be willing to treat them as family. The type of gift given should depend on the individuals and what they can afford, but no one should be left out if they are all celebrating together.
Yep. My brother has been with his girlfriend for 2 months and my dad got her a stocking, mom got her a few wrapped gifts & my grandma got her a blanket and a candle. Doesn’t have to be anything crazy, just include them!
Partner gift giving: moms nuts, but the son should have said, hey, please don’t get me a gift if you’re not getting one for my wife. OR suggest gifts for couples.
The locked out of the house story is a cross over from another podcast- My Favorite Murder. One of Paul Bernardo's victims was locked out of her house because she came home after curfew... Pretty sure Leslie Mahaffy's mom will eternally regret locking her daughter out for missing curfew...
Yess i love this podcast✨
This makes me feel so blessed that I have loving and generous mother and father-in-laws. My husband also really likes my parents. I am so grateful for that. We live far away from all of our families so we rarely have any family drama lol
The key to family harmony...distance! 😅
Same! Every time they do AITA and there's horror in-laws I'm like, "can't relate, and so glad I can't" 😂 We live far from his parents, but have visited a few times and we're only 15mins from my mum, but there's no problems or hostility with either. So thankful
“are we life partners?”
“sure”
HAHAAAAA omg love you two you’re brilliant 😂 x
To be fair to the girl who found the present list, I keep a spreadsheet with what I spent on people for Christmas, because I like to spend roughly the same amount per person to make it fair, that's just how I do it. And my husband is also on that list. But also we do agree roughly how much we will spend on each other, and also discuss bigger gifts with each other first before spending the money, so we make financial decisions we are both comfortable with. My husband could easily access that list if he wanted to, he has access to my accounts. I don't think its that weird to keep a budget for Christmas so you don't spend too much. Especially if you have a large family.
I do this, too!
totally
Hee hee... I also keep an excel spreadsheet for Christmas gifts with budget, items, ideas, etc... because I like lists. I keep my husband's and my sister's list on a separate tab, because it's usually multi line items. But the total amount of the gift shows on the main tab to calculate totals, but only shows as a single line item. So until I've actually purchased all the gifts, the front page may one have the cost of the stocking stuffer, or funny gift. :D
Also with large families, it adds up fast. You start spending extra here and there and suddenly it's $$$.
I know! I was, like, "Cristine, let me show you my bujo... I've got it all written down right here..."
On the topic of driving, I hate driving, I am autistic and driving is a very overwhelming and stressful experience a lot of the time for me. But I got my license at 23 because I wanted to be able to get around if I have to. My spouse or girlfriend will usually drive, but if for some reason they cannot, I can do it too because I'm not an asshole.
That's really responsible of you !
I read the "spoiled brat post" before Ben and Simply got to it. Both my wife and I thought the husband was insane. We were wondering what the hell he was thinking putting his wife last
I keep a spreadsheet of gifts I'm getting for people for Christmas! It's a great way for me to keep track of who I've gotten gifts for, whether they've already shipped or arrived (I do most of my shopping online), and around how much I've spent on each person (so that I'm not spending way more on one sibling than another)
I do the same thing 😅
If I don't keep track, I'll spend $100 on someone, and $0 on someone else. There's usually no in between lol
Same! And I keep these lists digitally for the most part, but if I made a physical list that could feasibly be found by my partner, I probably wouldn't write it down either. I can't help but feel like that's what the husband was doing, or maybe he hadn't come up with the right gift yet (gift-giving is *clearly* one of his love languages, lol). I think the wife may have jumped the gun on that one and gotten her own feelings hurt.
@@taylorwalker7417 That's kind of what I was thinking, too! Like maybe he just hadn't gotten anything else for her yet, but that didn't mean he wasn't planning to!
The proposal in front of family:
I think that depends on the family. Some people (like the family in the post) would not like it.
My family would have been over the moon if my now fiance had proposed in front of any of them. They would have loved to share in that moment with us. I specifically asked him to do it somewhere somewhat private because I wanted it to be just for us.
I personally don't feel like a family holiday dinner is at the same level of "someone else's wedding"
If it was an organized dinner for some other reason - a celebration for something - that's inappropriate without first talking to the hosts. But a holiday dinner that happens every year doesn't strike me as inappropriate at all. But maybe I'm in the minority there?
It seems like she knew it wouldn't be super well recieved with the Dad being more traditional. Just seems like an odd way to do it.
@@thenopedetective definitely weird for that exact scenario. The poster probably should have done that differently. Knowing the dad is old school, knowing the mom is kind of uptight, etc, there was really no reason to propose there.
I was responding more to Ben and Cristine's discussion about it though.
I agree. Imo proposing in front of people in general is something one should be careful about, as it can put the partner under pressure to say yes, unless they've already talked about it beforehand of course.
That said, it seems strange that the mother was making the family dinner all about herself, saying it's her event etc. when it's an event for the whole family and the goal should be to make everyone feel included, not make one person the center of attention.
I totally agree with you, it’s not like someone’s birthday or anniversary or wedding, it’s Christmas. However, given the context of the family dynamics, this possibly wasn’t a great idea considering they got mad about it the next day. But generally, when families are amicable and even… loving (!!!), I know my family would have loved if something like this had happened. When the authentic feelings are that you are genuinely happy for your family members, it’s not weird or rude.
Yeah it’s not on the same level, but I would take into account that it’s someone else’s event into consideration and talked/ asked them about it prior to proposing as a courtesy.
They’re so skeptical about the gift planning list, but it’s definitely useful if you need to budget for each person and make sure you keep your presents organized lol
Yeah but you could do that on your notes app on your phone and not write it down on a random sheet lying around right?
@@cyankalis Oh of course, that’s what I do now. I just mean they seemed weirded out that anyone would write out what they plan on giving people and the costs of those items.
@@lineyloveslacquer personally I don't think it's weird, it's plain budgeting, maybe he tends to forget some things because there are quite a few people that he wanted to give gifts to, that makes sense to me. It just doesn't seem too clever of him to write it down so the wife could find it
@@cyankalis yeah I definitely used to hide the paper one I did back in the day before smartphones, so idk where this guy left his so she could easily find it🤔
Omg wow! The husband who gave the wife a spoon is cheating on her. I was hoping he would say oh there’s a surprise but no she should be grateful for a spoon?! Yea divorce him. Especially to say that she should get rid of this behavior. NAH RUN GIRL
“get rid of this behaviour” literally alarm bells going off lmao. talking to me like a controlling parent would to a disobedient child or pet when i’m your actual fucking partner? nah.
@@jbtfp allll the alarm bells!!
Lol right?! So disrespectful and clearly he isn’t into her anymore
The newlywed post about buying the friends something of a higher value than the wife is hard to understand. Yes, it is the thought that counts, but I would generally be horrified if my husband bought me some utensils as a present (unless that is something I specifically asked for). It's the same with other gifts that should be normal 'communal usage', such as hoovers, etc. It's almost like the husband is classing it like, its not an essential, so therefore it is a gift, when clearly this is something they will both use. They should sit down and have a budget placed on what they are getting their significant other.
And silverware seems like such a bad gift. They're married, I assume they're eating with something. Unless it was something she explicitly asked for it seems really low effort.
I’m sure she tried to convince herself it’s the thought that counts but there’s no thought into the gift he got her (probably other gifts as well) she says she gets him gifts he may like like his favorite shoes and games but he can’t care enough to get her something she might actually like? It doesn’t mean he has to spend a lot but at least put thought into it. Seeing the list of his gift priorities and how he purposely gets her the cheapest, random crap pretty much solidified her suspicion that he genuinely doesn’t care enough to get her something with her in mind.
For the gift giving one, if my partner was inviteted to christmas at my moms place, then I would expect my mom to give a gift, atleast a small one so that my partner doesn't feel left out.
Yeah absolutely! It’s the thought that counts, even just a card would be better than nothing
It has to be a given that your partner would also at least bring a gift to your mom though
@@EmmanuelleBeaudoinRoy Yeah, I would expect my partner to join in on the gifting back too ^^
In response to what they said in the first story, I think you can still say some parenting practices are pretty crappy without having children of their own. We were the children at some point too and we know how some punishments effected us.
Also even if you aren't a parent, you know there is a big dangerous world out there.
The teen is still the mother's responsibility.
And now he is out there unsupervised all night, which seems to miss the point.
I was just binging your AITA podcasts the entire day 😂 perfect timing 😅
Honestly, I feel that for the dress code one, there is something between fancy dressing up and sweat pants. Wear some Jeans, a cardigan, maybe earrings or a necklace, no make-up and you look "presentable" without going overboard.
How did I even make it this early? And it's my favourite podcast of them all, am I the a hole.😂👌
@@jeryhamna2687????
yeah i think the whole thing about the dad being more old school traditional, and the mom having had issues with the gf in the past tells me if it had been the son proposing during christmas dinner, the parents, especially the mom, wouldn't have been as upset
the ps5 one - he specified that he did get her gifts every yr! ben said it was needed context but it was given at the beginning of the post :) funny that both ben and christine didnt realize he read it out loud
And he said he had around 700$ left, it sounded like it was from a dedicated budget for christmas gifts
Yeah it sounded like each spent there own money for kids so PS5 came from his bank not a joint one or hers. That lady sounds like a holiday buzz kill.
When I was 19 my bf prepaid for my driver licence test for my birthday... I wasn't interested in driving due to seeing my teenage friend decapitated in a car accident. Anyway I failed and freaked out so ended up paying again and again.... got it on my 3rd attempt.
In regards to the fake key situation. The MIL brought up the issue at Christmas dinner trying to expose her so she got what she deserved. Also the DIL owns the house too so she has the right to say no to has a key.
I’ve recently watched a true crime case where a parent made their kid sleep outside for coming come late, and they were abducted and killed. The first person is definitely an asshole
I would never do that (lock my child out for missing curfew) because of Paul and Karla Bernardo... that happened to one of their victims and that's how Paul was able to get her.
and its ironic because the reason for having a curfew and calling is presumably so they stay safe....so youre gonna lock them out without supervision where they could wander or get hurt anyway? counterproductive just to make a "point" the teen prob will resent anyway
Yeah, my parents gave me a curfew that was dependent upon the event and even then, the door was always open. I never even snuck out or did bad things cause I knew they would be accepting and I'd always find a way to call them if I was late or something happened.
I was conflicted on the driving one story, I didn't learn how to drive until I was 21 because I was from NYC with access to mass transit and never had the need. However since I was finishing college I thought I may need driving for my work, but while taking driving classes I found out I have massive driving anxiety, even making simple turns make me shaky. I was able to pass the test and get my license on the first try, soon after I got a car but would get anxious driving it so I sold it. At this point when I am asked to drive at work I just say I don't feel safe doing so, and I have friends that are willing to drive me (I pay for gas). The only person unhappy is my mother because she wants at least one of her kids to drive. I guess in NYC choosing not to drive is more common.
Those friends might not be so willing in the long term. I’ve been on the other side of this. A couple bucks for gas means nothing when you’re the one paying tolls, car maintenance, taxes, payments, etc ON TOP of the labor of driving every time and picking people up. It gets old fast. I’m from Philadelphia, so have a ton of friends who refused to get licenses for years. Let’s just say I had to set boundaries quick.
I had severe driving anxiety didn't start driving till 28 use to have nightmares about driving . I had to push through it and now I love driving.
Yes, I live in NYC and I don’t drive. I took lessons in high school, got my permit, but never actually took the driving test because of anxiety and not really needing to drive since buses and trains will get me where I need.
I am 28 and live in a big-ish city in Germany. I do have a driver's license but I have never owned a car and drive really infrequently (only occasionally when I visit my parents who live in a small village). Many of my friends still don't own cars or don't even have the license, so for me, the girlfried seemed to be unreasonable. However, I am used to living with good public transportation so I guess that might be different in the States. So I personally don't rely on anyone to drive me.
My boyfriend and I also don’t drive and we currently live in Houston, a city known for being very car-centric. I have a permit, but haven’t taken the test bc I get anxious and haven’t practiced in a while (and also covid). My boyfriend refuses to ever learn because of environmental reasons. We get by easy with public transportation and cycling. I think as a society we need to move away from a car-centric view to a pedestrian view for the sake of the environment. Anyone who tries to force someone to learn to drive are assholes imo.
As someone with chronic anxiety and paranoia I want to thank Simply from the bottom of my heart for the "if there's a reason you can't drive" response, because yes I got my license, however driving scares me to such an extent that I get full blown panic attacks.
I know I'm a good driver, however I'm afraid of everyone else. I'm just lucky to have such a caring and understanding fiancé
"Am I the a*hole for proposing at Christmas dinner"
I would love seeing the reactions if that was a man who did that. Something just tells me the parents and a few people would react differently idk
In the christmas gift story, it was mentioned that the couple had kids together, and that the mother-in-law wasn’t even getting gifts from them. I feel like the focus should’ve been on the fact that the mother was not acknowledging her grandchildren or including them, essentially alienating them from her family. If I were the wife, I would feel discredited if my mother-in-law didn’t acknowledge my children enough to include them in gift giving, even if it were a small gift. The mother-in-law didn’t cite financial reasons either, so it’s safe to assume she could afford to give the kids at least something. In my opinion, the husband and mother are biased and misconstrued that the wife was upset about not receiving a gift rather than on behalf of her children. It sounds like the mother in-law is intentionally excluding the wife and not acknowledging her grandchildren. Perhaps the husband is not retelling this story accurately in order to paint his mother in better lighting. With the list of excuses at the beginning of the post, it sounds like he’s already on her side, especially when considering he barely mentioned the fact his kids didn’t receive anything from their grandmother. The whole post just seems off.
The husband is listing the excuses for his mother's behavior because he's still in denial/or doesn't realize who his mom is, i.e. narcissistic/BPD, etc. He seems to know something is off about his mother in comparison to others, but he's been trained by his family dynamic to accept ridiculous behavior as normal. It's certainly possible that his wife is mostly concerned about her not getting gifts, and he is reflecting that concern when he's talking to his mother. Most normal people would be more concerned about their kids not getting gifts, but if you grow up in a narcissistic/BPD household and you've never gotten therapy, then you have a strong tendency to marry the types of people who have been modeled to you, i.e. you'll marry a narcissist if one of your parents was a narcissist. I don't know that this is the case here, of course, I'm just trying to posit a reason for his behavior.
@@Sika6061 That’s an interesting perspective and would potentially explain the minimal mention of the kid(s) by both parties.
@@greenfuzzymonster6447 Yeah. Kids are always given the short straw in these family dynamics. You bring them out to love and fawn over if they are the kids of the "golden child," but they're usually ignored and neglected whenever it's convenient. If they're thought of at all, they're thought of rarely. It's all about the adults seeking attention for themselves. Kids come in when the adults want attention, i.e. the kid who is amazing at sports, or the kid who wins the spelling bee. The kids aren't valued for themselves; it's what their accomplishments or looks, etc. give the narcissistic parent. The whole children should be seen and not heard scenario. Good times. s/
@@Sika6061 Oh man you've just described my childhood. Luckily I recognized it's wrong and got therapy.
@@TheEwqua I'm really glad you got help. Life for kids in that situation is rough. Stay strong and remember that you are important.
My friend and her husband have been on the rocks. Her love language is gift giving. He got her cologne for Christmas - his logic is that if she can smell the cologne on him, it’s like a gift for her 😂 so the driving lessons AITA wasn’t far off.
That kind of gift isn’t gonna do much to get them off the rocks 😩
That's weird.
The beginning of the pod was blessed by Zyler! Such lovely orange floof!
Cristine- I'm calling it '22 like we always used to say '97
Also Cristine- dress codes are so 1997 🤣
This podcast brings me the same effect as the J&J podcast did 💜 It's like returning home and hanging out with nice people.
Merci beaucoup à vous deux!
Bonne année 💜!
I found the driving one really interesting as I am almost 23 and can’t drive. I began learning at 17 (UK driving age), spent thousands of pounds trying to learn, failed 4 tests and I finally gave up when I was 20 years old. My partner can drive and sometimes becomes irritated when he is the only one able to drive to see my family, for example, but for the most part I use public transport exclusively. I would be upset if someone bought me driving lessons as it would be a waste of their money and insulted that they’ve assumed that me not being able to drive means there is something wrong with me.
Yeah I feel about the same. I am almost 28 and can’t drive. I do not want to drive. Between now expensive it is to learn to drive, take the test get a car, insurance, car maintenance that alone is a big nope for me.. but I also have bad anxiety and wouldn’t be able to handle it. I’d be pretty upset if someone wasted a bunch of money getting me something they knew i didn’t want because they were bitter about it.
I think they also missed the part where he said he takes Uber most of the time for when he needs to go anywhere and only “relies” on her if they are both going to the same place.
@@probably_notbob5794 Yeah, definitely. Completely agree. His girlfriend’a problem seemed to be about wanting to be a passenger rather than being relied on also. Although getting Ubers everywhere sounds so expensive!!
yeah i also hate how everyone tries to put a US context on this situation. like i live in a country where public transport is sufficient enough for me to never have to drive anywhere. my dad has done it. if you really don’t want to and don’t need it, then don’t do it! i do think that driving is an important life skill though. i’m on OP’s side here but i feel like maybe OP and partner maybe aren’t suited for each other if they truly can’t see eye to eye on it.
Idk OP says the GF drives to work/grocer/etc. so I think it’s safe to assume the area isn’t super walkable or doesn’t have good public transport.
If a person is unable to drive when it is necessary for someone to do so, than they’re being a burden. That said, it’s not always a bad thing. Some ppl love driving or their partners take care of other chores to make the load feel more balanced.
Personally I tend to enjoy driving, but just the fact that my partner can when I’m too tired or feeling sick is a comfort. If every time I decided we needed milk and hopped in the car my partner decided to “tag along” I would start to feel used after a while. I think the biggest issue with OP isn’t his lack of a license but the seeming lack of appreciation for his GF shepherding him around. He honestly comes across very ungrateful to me.
As a bonus, my BF is a twin. His twin doesn’t have a license but my BF does. So he was the chauffeur any time they went to a friends house, to school, to an event, etc. As a result, my BF kinda hates driving and I get it so I’m willing to drive most of the time. But he also knows how exhausting it is to always be the chauffeur, so when I ask him to drive he does. We’re both aware of the burden of driving (it’s tiring and it actually physically pains me after about an hour), so we’re able to compromise effectively.
I don’t think the dress code for Christmas is strange - in my family we always put on something a bit nicer for pictures and just in general it’s nice to have 1 event in the year where you get the chance to wear something nicer! It may be that this is more of a Hungarian tradition but I apprieciate it. I can see how the insistence on sticking to a particular dress code may be annoying (for us it’s just “wear something nice” whatever that means to you) and especially if it becomes a competition like the post implies, but it’s not necessarily something to look down on.
Also as someone who does like to dress up I feel like there aren’t many events where you get to do this so for me it’s a bonus! :)
I live in Canada and everyone I have ever known dresses up for Christmas.
I always loved it too, it made the day even more special for me. 😁
Exactly! It's the day of Christ, why wouldn't I wanna throw a party and dress up fancy?
In my state we get learner's permits at 15, and my dad insisted I get it on my birthday even though I wasn't chomping at the bit yet. His reasoning was that yeah, he and my mom could totally keep driving me places and I was a little reluctant, he wanted to know that by the time I was 20 and maybe moving out that I had five years of experience driving rather than two or three.
Well that's kinda crappy to do it the day of your birthday but maybe like the week after it's good to have driving experience before you actually need to drive but still not on your actual birthday
@@katc2040 I can see feeling that way, but I've never thought anything of it. It's really the norm where I'm from and it didn't take up enough of my day to be a problem.
I live in a midwestern state with a lot of farming towns, so getting your learner's permit at 15 is very common where I live. I was really excited to get my learner's permit. It never occurred to me that the "extra" years of driving just meant more practice and experience behind the wheel. When I started driving, I was terrified of the interstate/freeway. But the more I drove, the more I got used to it.
I’m 42 and I’m absolutely PETRIFIED to drive. The fear of driving for me is very real and horrible. I was in two really bad car accidents in my teens and then early 20’s. My phobia is so bad that I won’t drive a lawn mower, I won’t go on go-karts…nothing. My anxiety soars out of control. Friends have tried to talk to me about it and try to convince me to learn and I literally have burst into tears and gone into panic attacks about it. Even just the thought of me driving ANYTHING will cause me such great anxiety. I have put myself through driving school to face and conquer my fears but the driving instructor told me I shouldn’t even step foot in the road. Between my anxiety and adhd it’s impossible. For a long time I even had a hard time just riding in a car without the fear of crashing into someone. I have gotten better but sometimes when traffic is bad I cannot look out of the window so bury my nose in my phone. It also takes me a long time to trust someon to even ride with them. Yeah it’s pretty bad, so even taking an Uber causes me great stress. Not just the driving part, but my social awkwardness sucks. My partner of 13 years doesn’t mind I don’t drive even though he doesn’t understand. It can be crippling especially when I need to take son my somewhere like the doctors. Just figured I would share my story. 😊
Thank you for sharing ! I’m only 18 but I fear this might be me when I’m older. I absolutely can’t muster up the courage to take lessons and do the test and I feel like an outcast because I can’t drive :/ I feel like everyone silently judges me hahah
I say this all the time about my narcissistic mother who had literally manipulated me, been jealous of me, didn't even raise me aside from 3 years of my life, that simply because you didn't abort me, I don't owe you respect. That's something you earn. I initially had respect for her, if course, over the course of my 41 years of life she lost my respect... That's all there is to it, well not really, but you get what I mean. I appreciated when Cristine stated this same sentiment, more or less.
re: the dress code
totally agree, wearing sweats on an already fixed formal event is so unnecessary. it's ok to not like wearing these fancy dresses (just wear something semi-formal), but purposefully under-dressing to "make a point" is a huge asshole move.
re: buying myself a present
if you wanted a gift for yourself on any occasion, fucking go for it. i can't understand the wife being salty about it (only acceptable if they're having financial issues). like girl, it's his money and he wanted a gift for himself, i totally see nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, i agree on the dresscode one. Its one night a year, you have the entire rest of the year to wear sweats and its not even her event
I bought most of my gifts this year because my husband waits until last minute and doesn't usually have anything for me come Christmas morning. I'm a bit petty for sure, but whatever 🤷🏽♀️😂
@@kkiimm12 Exactly. And there are plenty of clothing options that aren't sweat pants that are more dressy. Black slacks/jeans and nice blouse/dressy shirt for example. The purpose of a dress code is not only to respect the host who's made an effort and wants to have a certain "level" of attire from their guests but also for the guests benefit so that they know what level to dress up to (imagine if you come to a wedding in a gown and everyone else is wearing casual, you'd feel awkward) and thirdly as a sign of respect to the other guests who took time and effort to dress up as well.
@@ellabellaswe and also they could just buy one outfit and wear it every year. not the most impressive, but from what OP sounds they probably don’t care about that anyway, and they’ll still be abiding to the dress code.
American's dependence on cars is so weird to me, I got my licence 10 years ago and haven't used it since lmao 😂
I agree it's very frustrating as a person with severe driving anxiety. I am very curious to know where you live and the different types of more popular means of transportation they have there, if you wouldn't mind sharing.
Me too! I've been living in Korea for a couple years and it's been so great being able to go almost anywhere, thanks to excellent public transportation. I'm kind of dreading going back to America and needing a car to go anywhere 🙄
(edit: "held everyone up from opening presents" "went back to sleep after lunch" theres ZERO concern for why he's literally sleeping all day, and the presents thing is more about him inconveniencing the rest of the family rather than "he would miss this thing" (which he might not even want anyway). REALLY sounds like they care more about him following rules than what might be going on emotionally with their son. yikes)
1st story: its the "missing 10 calls" for me. The parent MAY be overexaggerating how easy going they are, and are actually overbearing but tbh, I had a 10 pm curfew as a teen but was never punished for being late *as long as I called*. My parents made sure to tell me the calling was just so they knew I was ok, not to monitor me, and I called. Making the kid sleep outside instead of talking to him about the date and why he's hiding all that? yeah sounds like an overbearing parent tbqh
2nd story: ok both of them seem really immature on this. AGAIN an honest discussion where both listen would fix this! the bf needs to accept that he's putting some burden on gf and learn to drive. maybe he can drive her car or drive her places in tradeoff. the gf shouldnt have spent hundreds of dollars on a "gift" that was more about pushing bf into doing something he didnt want for HER sake. A present isnt supposed to be something that solely benefits you. the whole thing is a mess.
Still not warranted for punishment. A mistake. Knowing how overprotective parents are that was probably all at once. And 11 pm isn't even that late, AND he was only an hour late. Not like 3 hours and its past midnight. Ridiculous. He's 16 not 13
As someone who was scared to drive I was so thankful when my boyfriend gifted me driving lessons at 27. I wanted to learn but was too afraid to learn from friends or family and needed professional help. I’ve been driving for 2 years now and I’m so happy he did that for me
37:45 I remember the first time I heard Cristine give this lecture, I was furious and kind of had difficulty understanding why. I was shaking, terrified, angry, with so many thoughts racing through my head like, "It's not that easy, how dare you talk about my parents like that, how is any of this not my responsibility, I can't just be a selfish brat and not care."
After a year in therapy, hearing this again is a completely different experience. I'm like, "Oh fuck. So this is what reasonable expectations, boundaries, and logic sounds like when you're free."
I hope it's not weird to say I'm proud of you! I've been doing therapy for 10+ years now and I remember from the early days that accepting painful truths is by far the most difficult part about it. But there comes a point where you just let go of rigid thinking and your ego will be fine with changing-/evolving views on yourself and other people.
@@Shirumoon That is so sweet of you, I don't think it's weird at all and I really appreciate it!
And I completely agree, it really is difficult because all of those cognitive distortions were survival mechanisms - and if I don't have that, what do I have to protect myself? If it wasn't my fault, how can I "control" it to make it better? Therapy (and even just free online DBT resources) have completely turned my life and my brain around, and despite everything I'm still going through, I don't think I've ever been more stable and more at peace.
Thank you again for sharing your experience with me and for your very gracious comment!!!!!
Episode 100 needs to be Podcast Mountain-a race to see who can paint more layers of polish within the duration of the podcast. 💅🏻
The guy not driving baffles me a little bit because he explicitly stated he Ubers to and from work and yet doesn’t want a car because of the cost. I feel like the cost of Ubering for work regularly would cost more than the car in the long run. I would understand if he said that he took the bus to and from work, I live in a city with a really good bus system and many people can and do bus to and from work. I just don’t understand the logic of not wanting the cost of a car but being okay spending money to Uber to and from work all the time. Doesn’t compute to me.
As a parent of a teenager, I understand a curfew. Some places in the US, like the town I live in have a mandatory curfew for underage individuals. It's quiet late though. I generally let him do as he wishes so long as he helps contributes around the house (Im talking chores like washing his clothes etc.) Consiquences need to match the actions, but they should never result in the neglect of your minor child and refusing to let them in the house is neglect. My son doe occasionally choose to put up his tent and sleep in the backyard (he likes to camp) and I let him, but he always has access to the house/bathroom etc. Also someone else said this...why doesn't your 16 year old have a key???
I believe as long as the child is still living at home they ought to follow their parents rules for the most part unless they are totally unreasonable.
What i think we’re missing about the mother in law not exchanging presents is that OP said his wife AND child were not included
THANK YOU for saying you don’t owe your parents everything because they birthed you. As someone raised by narcissists, toxic parents who inflicted so much trauma on us and don’t respect boundaries I’ve cut them out of my life.
Amen sister 🙌
Narcissistic parents brainwashing their kids needs to be talked about a lot more often. It's such a huge problem for so many people, and happens more often than people realize.
Happy New Year Cristine and Ben! Hope you get to go on a holiday this year!
I absolutely ADORE their relationship, they're so secure in it and clearly agree on most important things
Loved this episode!
MIL's scare me lol Also, I wanted to say that I admire Cristine's ability to set clear boundaries with family. BUT I do also want to offer the perspective that in some cultures--and I'm only going to speak about mine (Filipino) at least--collectivism is so rooted in what we're taught and sometimes it's life-altering to just "ignore family" when they're being toxic. Somtimes it would even cause more grief to distance yourself from family than it would be to just bite the bullet and do what they ask. Especially when it's something as trivial as a dress code for family Christmas. Not saying this is healthy! In fact, I'm an immigrant who moved to the states at 4 years old and was pretty much raised to be Americanized/individualistic. My dad didn't talk to me for a year because I decided to move out for college. Years later and it's still hard for me to set boundaries with them.
Anyway, I always look forward to these podcasts. They really make my Tuesdays (:
Even something as simple as changing the restaurant that family gets together at when nobody likes the restaurant is hard.
Happens a lot with Asian families in America. Get togethers are at a restaurant that might not be truly hated, but nobody loves. Why not change it to something _somebody_ likes? But no, people have met up in that restaurant for years.
I'm Australian, but in my opinion, cutting off family has to be a very desperate last resort.
People seem happy to cut off their families for the smallest of things these days.
But we can't choose our family, and if we don't have them, who have we got?
And they don't have us, who have they got?
To me, it's always worth pursuing, even when it's very difficult, and not perfect, unless your life is in danger, or they're abusive (like actually abusive. Not did something that ticked you off lol)
Which does happen, and then that's a different story.
It's really sad to see so many broken families these days.
Praying things improve with your Dad 🙂
@@katyb2793 I somewhat agree but disagree as well. Mental abuse and trauma should be treated with same kind of seriousness as physical abuse. If someone is purposefully being manipulative and toxic person to get everyone do what they want to feed their need to control the situation then it's better to distance yourself from those kinds of people. Coming from a very toxic family myself, I go to family celebrations and events but every year think how much drama and emotional and mental stress I can handle anymore.. It's just very difficult when you're in the receiving end. Also, if someone is being a bitch and treating you badly then maybe they don't deserve to be in your life anymore. Simple as that. Otherwise people will never learn and continue on this toxic, narcissistic and abusive pattern and those same patterns fuck up even more generations. When does it end then? If you are a bad person who no one wants to be with then maybe you should be alone and contemplate on why people are pushing you out of your life.. Anyway, just my opinion on this matter, everyone has their own experiences. And I get it that family relationships are difficult. One of the most difficult things in this life in my opinion. Sadly we can not choose which family we are born in to, we just have to deal with the consequences..
Giving his sister in law $250 and not giving his siblings anything. Only giving her $20 spoons that both can use, and not as personalized gift for her. I won't be more passed with this fact😤!!!