Let's Discuss Autistic Educators, Life Coaches and Counsellors
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2024
- If you haven't got the training you shouldn't do the job!
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Honestly the mere mention of 'buy my course' is such a huge red flag that I immediately disregard whatever else the person had to say
Yeah, one of my favorite UA-camrs used to make great content, and now it’s all buy-my-course oriented and I can’t watch any of it. Give me the ick.
Usually, I agree!
I think some people like 'mom on the spectrum' have good intentions though!
She offers a lot of free content but also sells some stuff.
So stuff like that Or Orion Kelly plugging his book I understand because it's hard for autistic people to find work and I feel they have good intentions!
I agree especially if they can’t work in a normal’ environment these two accounts specifically I really like there content and I think I’d pay for some things they do definitely
@@PossumMedic yeah, I think there is a right way to do it and a wrong way.
Some really important points here. I have become very wary of many people who describe themselves as autism/neurodiversity/disability experts based purely on their own experience. Having said that, I would like to see more opportunities/funding for Autistic people to access the necessary training.
Reminds me of that "if you've met an autistic person, then you've just met one autistic person."
As an autistic person, I only know what it is like to live a life a disability through my own point of view solely; unless I get training on the VERY MANY different ways that autism can present itself, I would never in a million years try to proclaim myself as a coach in this field.
I think most of these people's hearts are in the right place, but it feels like they also jump on the occasion once their ego has been boosted a few times by comments (it's not that surprising when we see that most autistic peeps aren't really well liked all throughout their lives, an encouraging comment can go a long way for some of us)
Totally agree with you on the funding also!!
(sorry if this comment was super long, I just got really passionate haha)
@@dalekblep8136yep, wholeheartedly agree with you
Yeah a little like how self diagnosis we say is valid because getting a diagnosis can be hard and inaccessible. Getting training getting a degree isn’t always assessable either nor does it always mean good training hence lots of certified therapists aren’t very good especially not good an autism
Tuskegee Study suggests even authorities and medical practitioners should be subject to careful scrutiny.
Ive seen some autistic content creators selling courses. I haven't actually purchased any of those courses. But ive questioned how legit those courses are.
I've pirated a few, and they're generally not legit or very helpful.
As a rule, I avoid anyone using the term "life coach" like the plague. With my Master of Science in Psychology, I am well prepared to detect harmful predatory pseudoscience BS, and it breaks my heart to see how many vulnerable people fall for this crap online. Videos like these who call this out are very important to spread awareness! Thanks for making them ✌🏻
Hi Dana. I'm AuDHD, a qualified teacher, trained Specialist Autism Mentor & constantly updating my CPD - & I definitely get the ick from some ppl on the internet, I get what you're saying 😊
I don't like people profiting of this either way. Some psychologists and professionals know just as little or have just as terrible, outdated information. The way autism etc. is described in the DSM is already problematic.
I recently saw this framed as, "do you want your advice from the department of eugenics, or the completely unqualified clowns?"
@@comicconcarne😂😅😂😅😂 that is hilarious (and very accurate unfortunately)
Be wary of those who think Autism and Neurodiversity are the same thing, they're not! Neurodiversity IS the spectrum and things such as Autism, ADD/ADHD, dyslexia, Down's syndrome, and Tourette's are on that spectrum. You can have Autism with ADHD, but I'm not ADHD at all, even after discussing it with my doctors beforehand because I do have a brother with classic ADHD. That been said, I was sent to this nurse by my doctor, who claims to have 40 years experience with those with Neurodiversity issues, but she doesn't even know the definition of what she's preaching. She's trying to convince me I have ADHD because my brother has it and everyone else just missed it including specialists. When I said no I definitely don't have it, she then said people with Autism have ADHD traits so I should try taking ADHD meds, you'll know in a week if those meds are not for you. Again, I said no. Then I find out on the 6th session that SHE'S the one with ADHD, so now i feel she's projecting her condition on to me this whole time and that whatever she has to offer is what works for HER, not ME! What she didn't know was that I was recording our sessions, took down notes, and presented them to the coordinator at my local mental health and explained why I can't see the nurse anymore. I had to tell the coordinator because if she's trying to convince me of something I know I don't have, then what about the average 'uneducated' person who comes away from her sessions thinking they may have ADHD when they don't. So do a back check of all her clients to see how many are suddenly assessed as ADHD, I say! She never helped me once and actually made me feel worse. However, I did learn a whole lot about myself (definitely Autistic) and what to watch out for in a doctor/nurse/therapist in the future! Sorry for my rant, just very frustrated at the lack of help where I live. cheers
That’s messed up. Absolutely, even formally trained people can have horrendously inappropriate emotional boundaries. Yikes yikes yikes. And people wonder why we don’t all think you need a formal diagnosis - uh, it’s because a lot of us have seen how horribly some diagnoses are handed out.
Sorry to nitpick a bit but describing neurodiversity as the spectrum is not really correct I think. Autism itself is a spectrum condition meaning it varies in its presentation between people, but you still either have it or you don't. But like ADHD and Down's syndrome are not on a spectrum together, they are separate conditions. Neurodiversity just refers to anyone that is neurodiverse, anyone who is not neurotypical falls into the category of neurodiverse so all those conditions are forms of neurodiversity but they are not necessarily connected to each other or related to each other beyond that.
Sorry, I do realize that Autism itself has its own spectrum, but Neurodiversity Is the Spectrum that Autism and other conditions fall under. And I know you can have a mix of these conditions or not. I do research before I post things.@@snuffybox
Spot on.
My campus's disability office was extremely demeaning to me and instead of taking my points seriously they dismissed me by offering me CBT for 'confidence'
I'm sorry that happened to you. I hate it when people insinuate that all my challenges would magically vanish if I "just think positively." CBT doesn't help with trauma, and a lot of autistic people have been using it unconsciously as a survival strategy since early childhood. Therefore to suggest that's all we need is insulting and cruel.
I don't like CBT. DBT is based on it but is somewhat better.
Honestly, never mind would-be coaches, I'm just amazed that autistic people would publicize themselves on UA-cam the first place. I couldn't do it. The history of my neurodivergence is a history of people not getting what I want to say, me having to repeat my opinion reworded, them being offended for my insistence on trying to push the topic further. No I'm not, I want you to see my original point instead of being offended for something you made up, and once you've shown me proof you understood my actual meaning, the discussion is over.
Every time I'd make a video I'd have the same thing going through my head and I just couldn't bring myself to publish it. (Then youtube gets mad at me for using expletives in a comment and even auto-deletes that... sick of this, seriously.)
I'm autistic myself. I always say that I'm an expert in my own experience. But I'm not an expert in other people's autism. I find that some people in the autism community tend to think that they are experts in autism/adhd because they think they got a diagnosis or a family member with the condition. I find it to be slightly narcissistic if I am being honest. Does that make sense? 🤔 I think it's OK to share personal experiences but I think it is wrong ppl assume they are experts in other people's life. Good video by the way. Xx ❤️
I think we need to learn to speak in a unified voice, if we want to advance autistic voices.
You don’t have to be an expert in all of my autism, but we all do have enough overlap that I hope we start speaking up for each other.
Thank you! Totally agree and also pretty brave of you for posting about this topic, well done❤ Love your other vids as well, I’m a fan 🪭
I think it’s horrible. It happens in the mommy vlog space, too. Everyone is a baby led weaning consultant, a sleep training expert, a Montessori practitioner, and they can help you raise the perfect child if you buy their course… $4500 value for the reduced price of $297!! Having just had my first kid I’m embarrassed to say I fell for all that trash, and really missed out on enjoying much of the first year of his life because of all these unqualified “influencers” trying to shill their garbage. It seems to be a trend for everything these days. Homemakers, entrepreneurs, autistics, mothers, you name it. “I will teach you how to make money writing a book by writing a book about how to write a book.” Like wtf. Everyone needs to sit down and shut up lol
Having studied psychology and interacted with and listened to a lot of psychiatrist, I have much more respect for people with lived experience than professionals without it. It's more dangerous to speak with authority about things you don't really understand than it is to speak with humility and disclaimers from lived experience.
I appreciate your point about wanting to be responsible. But, honestly, the health care professionals in this field are often highly harmful, and people with lived experience have a lot more insight than they do.
I agree with you that the best is to have both: lived experience and education. But I wouldn't disqualify you as a coach for lack of education, provided you disclose your qualifications and don't make promises you can't keep.
So there needs to be more regulation not less. Lived experience is almost never useful without proper education and training.
@@murderyourlawn I have gotten a lot from videos like Dana's. I am skeptical about people with lived experience setting themselves up as experts and selling stuff. A book is one thing. Life coaching and courses are something else.
There is absolutly proffessionals that don’t do good jobs in their field, but generally they are still the ones who has studied and eductated themselves for years, i also think there is an important aspcet of reserch to have professionals who is neurotypical, who can distance themselves more from lived experience.
Lived experience is important, and it should be included in stuff like reserch, but i think we discredit a lot of people who are experts and work with neurodiversity. I think a lot of neurodivergent people with lived experience is needed in activism, and voice their experinces, so ofcourse both lived and professional experiences is important!
I’ve been binge watching your videos lately and your channel has been very comforting for me. Almost like a safe space, it feels like we’re just hanging out and chatting. Thank you for all that you do and I hope you continue making content ❤
Hi i totally agree! I'm a GP doctor and even I would be extremeley uncomfortable if i were to provide a course for autistic people.
1) I haven't worked much with autistic people and have no specific training on autism in all my years at medical school.
2) I'm just some person on the internet, which would be a pretty weird parasocial relationship. Where is patient secrecy?
3) Why would I want to scam autistic people with generally low income to pay me astronomical sums?
4) a paywall limits the community i want to foster and i earn enough through my job!
So yeah i am very suspicious of creators making courses, resources and paid groups. And it saddens me because I love their youtube content, but it makes me angry to find out they have like paid communities that are like $100 per session. Wtf.
I've been thinking all of this. Glad you went ahead and said it all
I don't really like the idea of life coaches, autistic or otherwise. I'd rather go to an actual therapist because they've had training and have a license that says they're legit. Of course there are bad therapists, but as far as I know, literally anyone can become a life coach. I don't have a problem with content creators having Patreons or channel memberships or whatever because that's like tipping them because you like what they do as content creators, but when they're selling courses and offering counseling, there's no way to vet that. They could be providing good information, but they just as well could be pulling it out of their butt.
there's one autistic youtuber in particular that i watch sometimes and they have genuinely helped me understand myself better thru their videos, but i can't help but be put off whenever they bring up their life coach program.. and as much as i appreciate the insight they bring into their experiences, it seems to be stated a lot of the time as absolute truth and using big proper words and its just.. idk.
like you said i don't think everyone does this with bad intentions but it's very questionable. it sucks cuz even ppl who ARE qualified don't always know what they're talking about and it's just really difficult to find people who are both qualified AND understand you.
Same with ADHD. It’s like capitalizing on people’s desperation and parasocial relationships.
I really can’t help thinking you‘re talking about a very specific YT channel on here even though you might not 🙈 been thinking about this for a couple of days now 🙈
Another great video Dana!
Thank you
Great video! yea there's a lot of that going around online😁
Autistic humans are all expert autistics ❤ and are, at minimum, better at generally understanding the "experience" than any NT ever could be. Sadly, there will be some small number of people who take advantage of others 😢 Be you as hard as you can because you are good at it ❤
Im autistic (diagnosed) but also have d.i.d (diagnosed a decade ago, but nearly diagnosed 20 years ago) this, what your talking about was a huge issue in the d.i.d community 3 or 4 years ago and has got much worse. I could see this happening the last couple of years in the autism community. In general i just dont trust anyone.
This rubs me the wrong way as well. Also, the creators who tell us that since so many of us are unsuited to regular jobs we should just become entrepreneurs like them! I mean, come on.
It is so hard not to crush on Dana.
“Life coach” does NOT mean they’re trained. Sometimes they have training, but it’s often just a person who wants to help. Sometimes they’re phenomenal, sometimes they’re a load of useless.
Unfortunately, (in the usa) therapists all have training and credentials, but they can be equally amazing or useless. Even for specific techniques with extra training, some EMDR therapists are incredible and others will leave you in a heap of triggers and think they helped.
Be a conscious consumer. Do not buy into something just because it seems like magic. Magic is not real. If something isn’t working, try something else.
Nope. Most areas do not have legal requirements for life coaches, which means anyone can wake up one day and call themselves a life coach without any certified training or education. It doesn't matter whether they want to help because general life experience is not a qualification, and acting as if it is can be damaging. There's a reason why therapists have to go through education and certification requirements.
@@murderyourlawn I’m so glad you commented, I meant to say “does NOT” - I’ve edited now. Yeesh 🤦♀️
I have been going to counseling pretty much my whole life since I was like 8 and I groups and peer support for several years. I don't know if it helped it is a less pressured way to be around people.
Good, we're talking about it. I have something to say.
I follow two specific autistic women who are starting to really annoy me.
Both offer groups which you have to pay for to get into. I understand monetizing extra content and things like patreon, but community groups? Really? That's not cool. The majority of autistic people are unemployed or work part time. A lot of us are lonely and struggle with relationships. To monetize community is a little disgusting in my opinion.
Also, I have seen one of them actively spread misinformation. Seeing this from a content creator and basically self taught autism coach who pushes self diagnosis, this is dangerous. There were so many people relating to this misinformation and felt validated because of it. This is not ok! She was also criticized but ignored it and left the post up. More and more of her content comes with a pay wall.
As far as I'm aware, neither of them have education.
I do think some of their content is good, some of it is just immoral.
Yes. The old “do you want to be my friend? Then pay to join my group” con. It’s a really shi**y thing to do to autistic people. I’ve been fuming about it for ages - so incredibly glad that I’m not the only one who sees the grift in this! And I’m quite sure I know which channels you’re thinking of. They are relentless in their marketing and actually come off quite disingenuous in the way that they seem to be masking very heavily on camera, yet asking other people to pay to learn how to unmask and so on. Most non-autistic professionals don’t have a clue about autism though, so don’t assume they’re any better. There is a plethora of free quality resources available. I suggest looking at the work of autistic researchers and academics. There are many autistic people which are also academics and researchers and they are who I would recommend . People like Wenn Lawson, Dr Hannah Belcher, the Neurodivergent Doctor channel and others all provide a lot of excellent free content. It’s easy to be conned by promises of belonging for autistic people. Other people exploiting that fact for their own financial gain ✌️💕🌻
There's one lady I love to watch, but I think she charges for her Discord, which is a bummer.
Brb testing my pee for DMT 🤣
10:09 There's definitely a difference between being paid to do a celebrity appearance vs. being paid to "educate" people. I think that the former is pretty standard for public-facing people.
The "professionals" aren't always as helpful as others who have personal life experience working through the same kinds of issues.
There's another channel with professionals who point out biases in the research of the other professionals.
So really think its important to inform yourself as much as possible, try things out that sound reasonable, keep what works for you and discard whatever doesn't work for you.
Yeah, there are a lot of formally trained people that praise ABA and all sorts of harmful misconceptions, too, unfortunately.
Agreed
BS. Personal life experience means nothing. Randoms with no training are more likely to be damaging than qualified professionals. If anything, there needs to be more regulation for therapists and mental health professionals, not less.
@@murderyourlawn I agree there should be more regulations, but just because you’ve been trained doesn’t f mean you learned any useful insight into how to avoid traumatizing or retraumatizing your clients. There are untrained people with good intuition, and there are many many trained people with AWFUL intuition. And training can be formal (school) or informal (on your own time, by your own means), and one isn’t necessarily better than the other. The system that trains professionals gets it wrong all the time, and it messes 10s of 1000s of patients up. Studies show that the success of your patient’s outcomes have NO correlation to which university you are trained through. From the cheapest and most half assed programs, to the prestigious programs. It comes down to the individual therapist, and whether or not they know how to connect with patients and have done their own work. I’d rather work with an untrained therapist with good emotional boundaries that is actively keeping up to date with the therapeutic community at large than a licensed professional with 30 years of experience who spends the first 10 minutes of every one of my therapy sessions telling me about her travel adventures and talks about my antidepressants like they’re a faulty cheat code, or a newly licensed professional who is so thrilled to help - aka finds all of their self worth in your success - that you feel you’re disappointing them everytime you show up with a bad mood (Speaking from personal experience). Training doesn’t mean they’ve done their own emotional work. Actually being able to relate to your clients is crucial, as long as you don’t generalize their problems and think you understand their whole problem before they tell it to you.
I used to live in a world where I thought trained professionals were an obvious cut above the rest. I have found it to be completely inaccurate. It comes down to each and every individual.
Also I know a very high up psychologist who is obviously trained for years and years and really well known in his field but he will still say things like we are all a bit autistic 😩🤯 sometimes no training and life experiences can be better more informed more real life knowledge but I don’t no where you’re coming from I think it’s possibly a person by person case maybe I don’t no
It should be noted that most educated professionals in medicine and psychology, are not experts in autism. You don’t become an expert in something as complex as autism, in a one or two hour lecture. Unless they have specialized in autism for at least 5 years in practice, and have done so under the supervision and training from an established expert, they are not experts (this was advice given to me by 2 different psychologists). Many people in these fields are prime examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect. They likely mean well, but generally they do more harm than good in these cases. I’m not saying that life coaches and UA-camrs are experts. There are several who do have advanced degrees in the field and that is their specialty, but in general, most are not formally educated in it. However, professor Tony Atwood (arguably one of the world’s leading experts in autism) has stated several times, “If you want to know about autism, ask an autistic adult.” I think that sharing your own life experiences, and things you have learned as well as things that you have found helped you, is ok, and I believe that was his point. I don’t think they should be passing themselves off as qualified experts though. I believe they should make statements similar to what you do in many of your videos to point out from the start that the information is based on their experiences and their understanding of what they have read, and the things they suggest are just what they have read about, or what has worked for them. I will soon be making videos around autism on my channel, and I will inform people of that fact during my videos. I enjoy your content, and I hope you continue making videos for years to come. Best wishes!!
Not being diagnosed I see myself as neurodiverse. I find the best videos are those where the presenter is reflecting on themselves and their journey as having autism/adhd/being on the spectrum. As we are all individual and have our own journeys to better understand ourselves. It’s great for relating and that we are not alone. I know neurotypical individuals that pay for therapists and it’s a personal choice.
Great video as always
There are coaches who aren't licenced therapists who have lived experience whom I really respect. For example Anna Runkle (Crappy Childhood Fairy) has paid courses and a community for CPTSD. I appreciate people like her sharing what they've learned and bringing people together in a moderated space (which takes resources to maintain), especially about things like CPTSD or autism for which there isn't enough help available.
There are scammers too. Not denying that. But I don't agree that all coaches qualified 'only' by their lived experience are scammers or otherwise harmful. Some can be very helpful. But it does require discernment and caution. That is true of 'professional' treatments too though. When it comes to mental health, many of the licensed professionals do harm as well (unknowingly usually).
I personally find the Crappy Childhood Fairy to be not useful. But if she helps you then 🤷🏻♀️
I feel very uncomfortable when I see autistic or mental health creators trying to make a bunch of money off their followers on UA-cam. I am not on other platforms. I guess if it is not much money then that is one thing. But life coaching and expensive one time sessions is really not right. I think that is taking advantage.
Having credentials or not seems irrelevant to whether they are providing value to their clients or not. And if someone hires a coach because they want a friend, a good coach might point that out and not take advantage of that person. It just doesn't seem fair to generalize all these people and being scammers.
The reason all these people pop up and are listen to is a result of the fact. That in general society as a whole and the medical experts have miserably failed the autistic community for the past 40 years and really haven't come up with a lot of good solutions.
If we expect to continue to change things, we need to learn to speak up for each other in a unified voice.
It’s also okay if we get our support from allistic people. For many of us, it was an allistic sibling or parent that helped us first navigate a confusing world.
The fact is, there is a long history of us autistics intermingling with the social structure of this world.
Ask the question, “Why do you feel you know so much about us? Is it because you are us?”
That said, scammers beware!
Life coaching is like a pyramid scheme
Why don’t they just ask people who are diagnosed autistic