I wasnt sure how this one was goin to turn out. I believe the worst thing he had going for him were the internet searches. His interrogation didn't help him much either. So many killers mess up by not asking how their victims died when the police inform them of the deaths. Not quite as smart as they think they are.
@@SidewaysInTraffic You do know both things can be true, right? He can be a narcissist and she cheated. Cheating happens for many reasons. Many times it’s because a spouse refuses to acknowledge and address a problem in the relationship. Humans always want to make this a black and white, one-sided problem. Marriage is way too complicated for that. You never know who people are behind closed doors.
@geeneebear By far, the stupidest comment I've read in a long time. Either you cheat or you don't, that's black and white. She told her parents, "Have you ever looked at someone in their eyes and felt like they're the one?" . What excuse for cheating is that lmao.
The fact that he wanted nothing to do with the child until she was leaving makes me so mad. So many parents like that, making it so much harder on the other parent and the child!
@@Mazebarber5353 Agreed, she's still the victim and of course didn't deserve to be murdered, but she was a pretty terrible person. She had a baby her husband didn't really want and then immediately started cheating on him and decided she wanted a divorce so she could be with her New Age boyfriend from her pseudoscience cult...not really a good look.
@hollyhope7227 Tell me you dunno what hurt and humiliation a spouse who was cheated on feels without telling me so. Carmen was passionately in love with Larry while still married to Tom.
I will NEVER understand people who talk to the police without an attorney. If you're innocent you need a lawyer and if you're guilty you definitely need a lawyer.
It is typically arrogant narcissists like this killer Tom Murray who will talk to police without a lawyer, believing themselves smarter than everyone else - including seasoned detectives! Thankfully it usually gets them caught faster.
If someone informed me that my Ex partner was dead, the first thing out of my mouth would be 'how, what happened?', during his 10 hour interview with the police, not once did he ask how she died. No wonder he was the number one suspect right from the start!...
I mean as messed up as it is, he wasn’t going to pretend to care. In all honesty if my ex was being “inappropriate” while we were married than asked for a divorce so they can be with the person they were inappropriate with and then wanted to take our child out of the state I wouldn’t have warm and fuzzy feelings for that person either. She was either naive or stupid to think they would eventually be friends.
This is not about how you would feel if your ex died given the experience you'll once had together but it's pretty common sense to at least inquire as to how she died. It's not normal not to bring up that question up at least once
@@o̸ණ it’s actually not normal especially if they were not on good terms with each other. There are some people who just don’t care about people anymore once the relationship is over. Not asking about an ex doesn’t make you guilty, it just means you don’t care. That’s what common sense tells you.
Me too, he is/was honoring her memory by doing that, very touching & shows that he is/was a very GOOD MAN!!!!! May they BOTH be Resting In Heaven surrounded by the Angels 😇 ✨️ 🙏 ❤️....
I thought that line was an admission of guilt. The police overlooked that statement. In his mind, Carmin was not reasonable so the logical conclusion is death
“I will never let you go, do you hear me? No matter how long it takes, I will keep you safe. And I will find a way for us to be together.” ― Wendy Ownes
He actually said He was “ Tickled to death” to help the police a few hours after he learns his ex has been BRUTALLY murdered. That’s not too much of a red flag.
Recipe for disaster from the start. He married his student. Power tripper. He broke 'rules' from the start. Who wouldn't get tired of being controlled? Look at her pics with her professor husband verses her new fiance. She looked like 2 different people. She looked stifled with the husband, and looked loved and free with the fiance. The smallest detail of his pink sweatshirt and purple sweats was so odd..
If my spouse cheated on me and then tried to take my child... I wouldn't care if or how he died. I wouldn't ask. I would not want to be bothered to go to the police station. I would probably say, "He isn't my problem any longer. Go ask his lover..."
I've been watching Unsolved Cases, Cold Cases and 48 hours for YEARS. I have also cried many many tears. In this life we as humans have choices and decisions we ourselves alone get to make, and brutally killing a loved one should NEVER EVER be good choice . My heart goes out to the family, to Kiara, and also to Larry.
The fact that Tom didn’t ask “how did she die?” pretty much proves he did it, for me. If Tom was innocent, he might have thought she died from natural causes, like a heart attack.
Maybe he discovered *she was cheating on him since forever before ending things* and he just didn't care anymore. tHe fAcT tHaT she cheated on him is disgusting, no failed marriage give you the right to do that.
I also liked the Law they have in Kansas ,where the family can privately hire a special helper prosecutor . I would have done the same as her parents did. I think this couple were married way too long before adding a child to their lives. Larry was at retirement age & she quit her income so he was looking on not being able to retire until the child is grown. Had they thought things through they should have broke up when she decided she wanted to be a mom. She could have found a man who was young enough to commit to supporting her & child while she quit her job. It also easy to wait for the divorce is over with before you find a new person to allow around the child and family. This was a older man enraged he was loosing his wife & child. Not because he wanted to love them ,but he is enraged because they are HIS in his mind. This dear child has lost both her parents , this is a terrible crime.
@@redacted2275 they were referring to the child! Great for you to be so nasty! I hope someday you get into a relationship that becomes abusive with a narcissist, and face violence...then maybe you won't be so judgemental.
I always look at the eyes. Some people just have that unhinged look. I remember I said that about a guy with dark eyes and got attacked in the comments that I said his eyes look crazy and dark, that it was some kind of prejudiced comment because he was middle eastern. I say that about light colored eyes too. Crazy eyes are crazy eyes. Alex Murdaugh the guy that just killed his son and wife, had dark looking eyes like a shark I didn’t even realize they were blue until they showed a close up of him when he was more calm. It was amazing how a red headed light eyed person eyes go dark like that when he was angry. When he would get angry in court his eyes looked dark. I have seen nice looking people but when they get close enough I then see their eyes and say uh oh, crazy psycho eyes! I saw a good looking guy one night at this Restaurant bar place and when he got close to me and a friend, I said psycho eyes, and some girl sitting next to me said oh my God how did you know that, he is crazy. She has gone out with him and found out he was nuts. I said I just looked at his crazy eyes. He looks unhinged.
@Elvia L. Hernandez maybe he was really a nice guy that was broken by his cheating wife who wanted to take his child away. She broke his heart so he stopped hers. All is fair in love and war
The moment he talked to police for hours and "wanted her to be reasonable" were two huge red flags. And his first reaction of being inconvenienced. Even if you hate your ex you would at least ask about your child and their safety. And about what happened.
I worked with family courts and custody disputes for YEARS.. People change at this point. They're not the same spouse you married. Things get dirty and rough it's very sad.
Well, for one, custody disputes reach down to the pride of each individuals. Aside from having custody of the child, it makes the losing parent suffer by being away from their child. Nothing hurts a parent than their own offspring hating them.
@@davidwoermansr Well... There are people who are like that but we have to consider 3 things here... One, how old are the children. 2, how old you are and three... How much they hate your wife, their step mom...
@@junehalog024 1 the kids are now all adults the youngest 2 just turned 18 not long ago 2 my age has nothing to do with it and 3 it's their egg donar not their step mother and the oldest 2 were 10 the youngest 2 not yet 6 months when she dumped them at my parents while I was in a coma not expected to live after a horrible accident and said I can't do this and walked away for the last time they'd ever see her or hear from her by her choice her and her new hubby live less than 5 miles from me in a camper on 5 acres I had no use for so I gave her so she could be close to the kids and be in their lives she made the choice
@@davidwoermansr Well, I'm just looking out for any possible problems that may arise for you and your family. But looks like things are still in better shape than most who maybe in a situation where the kids don't like their step mother. Your situation is different since the woman is the egg donor so she is, in all shape or form, their biological mother. As a footnote, I'm glad for you that you got better after that incident. I may not know what you went thru to get into a coma but alas, here you are and so, I, for one, am glad for you, sir. ,👍
I’m not a person who likes drama but give me anything with science and I’m all about it. 48 Hours has been one of my favorite crime shows. This guy is a nutter. RIP Carmen 🙏🏼🕊️🙏🏼
It was great to see a rookie prosecutor, Angela Wilson, cut her teeth on a case she cared so deeply about and WIN against seasoned defense attorneys. Good for her! This case was surely fantastic for her career. Tom was the perfect image of a narcissist; gloating from the very start during his interrogation and thinking he was so much smarter than everyone else. It was honestly so gross. I’m glad Carmin’s family got justice for her and can find some closure knowing that their granddaughter and niece won’t be raised by the man who took her away from them prematurely in a most grisly and cruel manner. That search history from his computer sure did prove that he’s a literature professor and not a computer scientist! HA!
You're happy a man was convicted and not a single peice of evidence placed him there!? Lord what a scary world we live in if we're celebrating convictions without a single peice of evidence!!
Yea correct that whole situation seems like something left out. Any teacher married to student weird. Hate to think or reply about deceased she was not all in reality what were those jobs after lawyer. Now Tom was a murderer no doubt. It was strange seems like everyone trying to cover up unknown.
This is such an incredibly heartbreaking case! 3 things that I took away despite the horror: 1. Ciara will grow up in a family of love despite losing BOTH parents 2. Angela - you're a rock star! You fought as a NEW prosecutor and won 🙌 3. Larry - turned his tremendous loss into the gift of helping others and asking nothing in return by volunteering. NOTHING can bring a loved one back, but the cycle of moving forward in grace and stewardship will definitely make an impact on the world.
Certainly not victim blaming, but I also took away from it that she was going to counseling doing everything she could to keep her marriage together while having another man on the side. She obviously wasn't giving her marriage that honest last try. You can't be carrying on two relationships and be honest to none.When a chew relationship is honest, in just one.
@c m yeah I'm watching this and they make her sound like a Saint. She was all messed up. Couldn't settle on a career, changing her mind about kids so late in life and cheating on her husband. Everything was all about her according to this show. And they call the killer the narcissist.
@@Stephie84488 they were two narcissists in a narcissistic society. She may have been a saint, IDK, and she may have been a good mother and housewife and him too but they omit so much info that it's deceptive. I mean, all her family can say about her is a list of words and cliche's, like they didn't really know her. If I eulogize a family member, I would also have to say all the things that made them mad, that they didn't like, and tell some specific stories. Since she kept herself apart from her family, everything they are saying is cast into doubt, and this is their story. Although they do interview his students and they liked him. What excuse do the producers have for not interviewing his family, I wonder. They don't offer a disclaimer, like, ``we tried to interview his parents but couldn't.'' Very unjournalistic/deceptive.
@@quickchris10 this show is all about making men look guilty and hailing messed up, adulterer women. The people blindly believe the women. Like in this case, where was the DV? Proof? I replied to a comment on Barry Morphew which called him evil, lacking morality, that wasn't his wife the one who lacked character since she cheated? As Barry is yet to be found guilty, how can you be so sure? And I invited a ton of women giving me the same treatment they gave Barry. Calling me judgmental, psycho, murderer for pointing out that a man is not those evil traits at least until he's proven guilty without doubt.
This guy is innocent, I don’t think he did it. That’s the problem with shows like this- viewers THINK they are seeing the entire case unfold before them, lol when in fact, you are only seeing tiny scraps of the real case. In reality--You’re seeing what the producers of the show want you to see
@SidewaysInTraffic As soon as her father said "he was too good to be true", THAT WAS A RED FLAG RIGHT THERE!!!!!! That IS EXACTLY WHAT & WHEN everyone SHOULD be weary & watchful of & for!!!!!!
Anyone else find themselves struggling to hold back tears by the end of these ?😩 RIP Carmen & Larry Lima 🤍 & to the rookie prosecutor for absolutely CRUSHING that case 👏 Amazing
Lmao, calling that a "absolutely CRUSHING that case" is extremely embarrassing. She was choking, stuttering, and being over dramatic. The only reason that she won the case was not necessarily because of how "she presented herself", it was literally below par btw. But because of the computer forensics and the emotional/biased jury and people involved in it. Saying that she "absolutely CRUSHED that case" is worse than an over-exaggeration.
These videos have the perfect tile, because I put one on to watch, fall sleep and I swear another 48 hours worth play while I sleep! 😂 I got back to my history to find where I left off and loads have played without me knowing 😂
@@christo3635 very true, I was married to one, my life was a mess when I was with him. I didn't realize how bad of a mess until I was able to get away from him.
@@jodeeps2287 I completely understand! Most people don't realize they are tangled up with a predator like that until it's to late.. These psychopaths have a way of mimicking normalcy to get past your radar , and they tend to go after empaths ,who are beautiful inside and out.. 😊
This story is the second one I’ve seen where the wife had a baby with a narcissist who didn’t want the child in the first place, but when it came to custody all they cared about was winning. I cannot understand why anyone would want a child with someone who doesn’t want children. Do they think that once the child arrives their mind would change?
Well, I believe many ppl would become psychopaths if their partners acted the way Carmen did-- being passionately in love with a new man while still being married. Talk about disrespect!
As terrible as her death was, don't have an affair ever. Affairs are narcissistic and nothing good comes from them. Don't listen to your pals telling you how happy you look either. Get a divorce, take time to heal, and then proceed with your life.
I got 4 great kids from an affair they aren't biologically mine but they're mine I got sole custody of all my kids and raised them by myself in 6 years tha youngest will graduate
@@davidwoermansr haha that’s like saying you feel off a 3 story building and didn’t break any bones - just cuz something may have turned out better than expected doesn’t mean it’s a good idea
@@WideAwakeHuman it was a great idea in fact the only reason I married the second time was to adopt the kids divorce her and get the kids safe that was her parents idea and they paid for it all
Cheating is never acceptable. She should have left her husband, got divorced first, then started seeing this other guy. When u take a person's world away, you don't know what they are capable of!
Rest in peace, Larry, you are now with the woman you loved. ❤️ My sincere condolences to the families involved and especially her beautiful little girl. 🙏🙌
@@auntyshakira747 His obituary (2011) says he is survived by his 2 daughters amd describes him as a loving family man, so he must have married, though it doesn't mention a wife. The obit was clearly written by those who loved him.
@@Tero92 truth. I neglected to mention.. leaving a relationship is the scary point. Personally i have never left my husband nor even had a point i even thought to, but in a bad relationship the leaving point is the bad part.
Yes, yes, yes! I just don't understand how otherwise smart women do something so dumb. When you cheat and then rub salt into the wound by moving the child away--and then you move the boyfriend you cheated with and dumped the husband for into the home with the child... It is like swimming in the shark tank with a bloody finger.
As I continue watching these true crime documentaries, I realize 2 things: 1) horrible/ tragic murders happen to the most nicest, wonderful people 2) it’s always the people closest to you that commit the horrible act. It’s scary…..
It’s not always people closest to you. I would say half and half. Also, a lot of those people are innocent… every single one of us should be scared to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, or just happen to be mad at someone and they god forbid get killed.
I knew he was guilty when he broke his mask and smirked when the fiancé said he was about to move to town to be with her. It was like he was saying “haha and now you can’t”. The fiancé was ready to drop everything for her like she truly deserved and honestly that’s what got to that loser. He was losing her, possibly his daughter and control he wishes he still had. She was so brave to move on and find happiness away from a man like that because he probably tried to break her down for years and you can just tell from his interrogation he gets off on feeling like he is intellectually superior. He loves to gaslight and run circles for hours feeling like he’s a cat with a mouse on the run. No matter what he thinks he did to her she is and always will be free from him while he rots in prison because guess what. Now that basket case can’t do to his daughter what he tried to do to his wife. She will always be her butterfly and flying angel 💜
That's just editing film to fit the narrative. I'm not convinced with zero physical evidence. I think they had tunnel vision and locked him up so they wouldn't have to bother looking for whose blood and shoe print at the crime scene that was.
Seemed to me that he wanted his daughter just to thumb his nose at the family. I've known people like that, more interested in spite than what's right.
My goodness what an absolutely heartbreaking story!! But I'm so glad justice was served in the end!! I must say that Tom's face gave me goosebumps from the very beginning!! He just had one of those ice cold emotionless empty looks!!
I have an abusive ex husband too..and one thing I learned is to put hidden cameras inside and outside my home..and got my gun license..learned how to shoot at a shooting range and purchased my first gun for safety...Never let your guard down from anyone.. especially an abusive ex
@@Nick2bad4ualthough that's morally wrong it doesn't matter, the ex was a controlling narcissist and I'm not surprised she cheated. She should have left before started a new relationship but often when with an abusive partner a new one is an escape. I'm not condoning cheating but I understand it.
Well if you don’t cheat, you’ll have nothing much to worry about.. Tom isn’t abusive. Carmen cheated right under his nose. Tom wanting to get back at her is par for the course. Her family painted her as an angel. She’s not. She’s also not a looker. Would you feel insulted and upset if your husband is happily dating someone else while still married to you?!!
@emmalouise7884 That’s cos you will happily divorce your hubby. Tom wanna salvage the marriage. He’s not the kind to philander. Carmen was the outgoing & extroverted kind who couldn’t settle on a job and r/s. Assuming you love someone very much and he cheats on you and wanna take everything away from you, you’ll feel cornered too..
If one person wants kids and the other doesn’t, the relationship is over. Period. There is no compromise in that situation. It’s too bad she didn’t walk away and find happiness the minute she decided she wanted to be a mother instead of staying with the scumbag she chose for fatherhood. 💔
@@uhsaywhatnow Had a kid, then cheated on him at some fantasy healing convention. Then tried to take his daughter away to live with the man she destroyed their family with. What a woman.
@@drewasciutto8547 the daughter who he clearly did not want otherwise *parents* would have never had custody!! Nor would he had been at the police station voluntarily for 10 hours!! Don't you think any halfway decent father would want to be consoling his daughter after her mother was brutally murdered?!!
I've watched a metric ton of true crime documentaries. Some have taken place in places I lived or very close to where I live currently. This is the first to actually occur where I was, when I was there. Strange feeling, knowing you may have sat in a booth across from them at the local diner or given them a polite smile in the grocery store. I hope Carmen is able to rest peacefully, knowing her beautiful daughter is being raised by her loving and dedicated family.
@Niecie Even if you're correct, it doesn't negate the fact that they love their daughter/sister and granddaughter. Also, if you notice, I at no time mentioned guilt or innocence. Your position/opinion may be valid. Your comment is misplaced.
Obviously, this guy is the most likely culprit and I do think he's the murderer, but I'm not sure if his guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt. Sketchy search histories and an enemy's death alone aren't enough to imprison someone for the rest of their life in my honest opinion. I do believe they've got the right man in this case, but this kind of trial seems very dangerous; sooner or later someone innocent is gonna end up in a prison cell.
I’m sure there are already innocent people sitting in prison for crimes they didn’t commit. Some have already been proven innocent years later. Although this man might have been guilty….I don’t think there was any evidence to prove without a doubt that he committed this crime.
@@theresabarker3522 As a lawyer with 12 years of experience litigating cases, this is a nightmare. There is nothing to say … This is almost terrifying that it was prosecuted at all. Nothing puts him at the crime scene, all they have is him spending as much time as possible to talk to them without a lawyer … There are plenty of reasonable doubts. This is a horrifying case, even if it is most likely the husband did it. Too many unknowns, and once again, the only thing to say is that this is the kind of case that puts innocent people in jail. The defense put on a better case, too. They just had an unlikeable client with a questionable internet search history (that, in my opinion, was reasonably explained). He is a professor of language and he talks a lot, has searched the internet for CSI type materials, it's not about what the prosecution thinks; it is about what they can prove. One of the worst convictions I've ever seen and when I clerked I did tons of appellate work. This is unlikely to be a conviction that holds up on appeal. I could tear this to pieces … A seasoned appellate worker is going to tear this conviction to pieces. Life in prison over internet searches in an age where all our internet searches would hang us… especially for true crime fans. This is terrifying.
I was thinking the same thing. A whole lot of reasonable doubt was going on here - the prosecution should not have gone to trial when they did, because if I was in that jury box I would've had to vote innocent, even though I also think he did it.
Thank you, and all of you who replied to this comment, also, for restoring my faith that not everyone is so easily swayed by simple finger-pointing! I have no idea how this case even went to trial.
@@Brandon-a-writer I came here to find out if there was an appeal, and what was the outcome if so. I too believe he ought to have had a better jury, however, he has no one but himself to blame for saying anything other than " LAWYER PLEASE" from the moment police had contact with him. Without his big dumb mouth, he almost certainly would have walked. I bet he is kicking himself in prison. As an aside, couldn't bear the Father saying " she was trying SO hard to save the marriage"--when we already know she was seeing that Lima dude, lol. People are strange. Still, a tragic case all round, really felt for her sisters and how much they clearly adored Tom. Having to digest him doing what he did must be surreal.
When after the verdict, he chose the words "I remain nonplussed" to describe his feelings at that moment, says so much about his personality. Yes, he is an English prof, but it came across so academic and arrogant. 😣
Isn’t amazing how Carmen’s family was united and there for the entire trial! You didn’t see a soul representing or supporting Tom. Other than his highly paid lawyers. Of course! That alone says a lot about the type of man he is. Narcissist tend to alienate people.
Most intellectual ppl don’t have lots of friends. Just because you have lots of friends doesn’t mean much. Some ppl just have a big family and lots of church friends. Intellectual ppl like a professor tend to be atheist so they won’t have any church friends. Carmen was a failed lawyer and held a few patchy jobs. Some ppl like her are extroverts and can’t settle down, which explain her cheating ways anyway. She also made lots of bad decisions, cheating being one of them. Her whole family supported her cheating on Tom. Says a lot about them. Instead of divorcing him first, she went out and date some other guy under his nose. Tell me which married man won’t feel insulted and upset?! Would you if your spouse acted in this manner?? Who’s the narcissistic one here?
@@ABC-ed8cg Her family disregarded whose fingerprints were there and that there was no evidence at all. They were just a pack of simpletons. Only one experiences cognitive dissonance with her mixed feelings when he was found guilty without a shred of actual evidence.
It is a matter of control. Many people end up killing their partners even without having kids on their own. "If you arent mine, nobody will have you" line of thought
Wow this was a tough one! I’ve no doubt that he’s guilty. He had cuts to his hand, very strong motive, her injuries were very personal but was the evidence there? I’d hate to be on that jury.
"I never wanted Carmen dead. I wanted her reasonable." Probably didn't intend on killing her, but when she told him her bf was moving in with her & their daughter that to him wasn't reasonable. Multiple cuts on his right hand & both wrists were bruised...tells me they absolutely have the right man in prison. He had the means, the motive & the opportunity & who else would've had that, but him!
No teacher should be looking or being with their students. That's Red Flag number 1. Number 2 just being that nice. There's no way anyone's that nice. its called the mask. Its what they want u to see than behind closed doors u have no idea how they really are. its to trick u so when they do bad u wont think they did it. I don't get how no one can understand that. of course its the guy u don't think can do it. wake up people.
YES -- that and he did not ask anything about how she died! He said "do we have to do this now" --- he is either insane, or that shows he did it or hired someone to do it.
For some reason, after watching SO MANY of these shows, this one disturbed me greatly. I think because the defendant seems like such a closet Jekyll and Hyde. The crime scene photos, the brutality, the rage, and the meekness combines to an unusual level.
Just started watching, but I'm recognising Tom's narcissism already. (Once a person seems too good to be true, then they are. ) That's a huge red flag!! Covert narcissists seem charismatic and charming, but in fact, they are very manipulative and vindictive. I get it that the family finds it confusing, but narcissism generally is. May Carmen RIP. 🙏
I concur!! Also, made me think of the saying; "Still waters run deep". For me, I felt uneasy at the coldness in his eyes, even in photos taken as a young man, like there was something missing.
@@davidwoermansr - You might be a narcissist. You don’t know her treated her right! You only know what he chose to show the world. After working with victims of narcissistic abuse for ten years, it is a easy to spot the cold dead eyes.
How could anyone even buy the excuse that those hand wounds were caused by "slicing a pineapple"?? Bruised wrists? Carmen was likely grabbing them to keep him from striking her. I am glad the jury did the right thing. Justice was served.
Then how come there was none of his dna found there? If he sliced himself during the crime then his dna would had been left behind , or did he magically Manage to not bleed out despite being cut ?
@@cerealrakist7360 yeah that part for sure is a mystery. I'm not convinced he did it but I do think he may have hired someone to. I don't know how he could have done it and them not find any dna whatsoever or even under her fingernails.
Yes women deserve to always be happy. Men are expected to be miserable because he made a vow. Men need to learn to love like a woman does. "I do until my feelings change. Now I deserve to be happy". Men do not get married
when the child grows a bit more she may come across this episode...I hope she only remembers that her mother loved her and nothing else about this very tragic story. I also hope that she will be able to grow peacefully and lead a happy life.
The father kept saying his greatest fear is that the professor would be found “innocent”. Our system never can prove someone is innocent, it is designed to prove someone is “not guilty”. There is an enormous chasm between the two
@@AlissaSss23 Alina, go easy now. The distinction between not guilty and innocent is actually very important to point out…not guilty does not mean innocence, it means guilt cannot be proven. This leaves the door always open to the possibility the defendant actually committed the crime.
By the way how's OJ doing with his search for the real killer? I remember him vowing to never rest until they are found and he'll do everything he can to find them and bring them to justice.
This guy has that unmistakable vibe of a highly educated, professorial type. It’s rare people like this don’t consider themselves superior and smarter than everyone around them. At the end of the day street smarts, common sense and good old fashioned wisdom always win because anyone can educate themselves; but street smarts are earned. There is great satisfaction watching arrogant educated people crushed under the weight of wisdom.
He might have written a good shlock TV script, but Man! Did he lack "Reason and a Humanity." No, he wasn't about to lose everything, he still had his job. He should have walked by a homeless encampment and then try feeling sorry for himself, the fool!
@@chadpayne956 the evidence is clear. His computer tell exactly what he had in mind and lets not forget the wounds in his hand. He killed her without a doubt.
Guess it’s easy to convict who the police say is the only one with a motive. Wow this is unreal. They didn’t spend a second looking into anyone else. Good job.
Can't imagine being that prosecutor. I think I'd have changed careers. Carmin's boyfriend looks a lot like her dad when he was young. No matter how old they are, it's so scary to think of the harm that could come to our children out in the world. This should never have happened. RIP, Carmin and Larry.
You are all talking like she was the pinnacle of morality, a saint... get off your high horse, she was cheating on her husband for a long time without an ounce of guilt and was moving to another state with their kid. It doesn't matter if Tom didn't want children before or if she wanted him to be on the child's life, she was selfish enough to make it hard. Nooooo, she didn't deserve her faith, of course! No one does! My issue here is the holier-than-thou tone of your comment.
@@redacted2275 Carmen was an impressionable student. The professor broke professional boundaries by even developing a relationship with one of his students. "Youth and beauty money and power" Carmen was a human being, not a dog that required training by its owner.
That man is so full of himself, thinking nobody is more clever than him,but fortunately he got that wrong 😞 Such a nice lady, big loss for her family, daughter and fiance 😢
This is a classic example of prosecuting someone when you don’t actually have a case. Lord have mercy on any of us if we ever stand before a jury because they don’t really care about actual evidence and they will convict you based on what they think.
oh my gosh... they couldn't even prove he was there; none of his blood, no fingerprints, no one saw his car there etc. but yet... guilty. wow! I was so shocked at the verdict
@@bladefiresc59 but the motive was exceedingly strong. Moreover, the searches found on his computer in relation to when the crime occurred was damning. Also the bloody shoe prints should have been taken into consideration. There are enough precedented cases were people have used shoes either to large or too small to throw off investigators.
You're obviously one of those people who expects a criminal case to be handed to you on a silver platter, all wrapped with with a bow. That's not how evidence works - there is rarely ever a photograph taken at the moment the killer commits the crime! And every case is judged to the standard 'Beyond a reasonable doubt' NOT simply 'Beyond a doubt'. Legal language is very precise for good reason! You no doubt have total faith in DNA evidence and forensics generally, and make the rookie mistake of thinking circumstantial evidence is somehow inferior. It isn't. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence, and a circumstantial case, given the right amount and quality of evidence, can be even more compelling than a forensic one. This was actually a VERY strong case - so strong, that the killer Tom Murray's 2008 appeal was dismissed! The only potential problem with primarily circumstantial cases, is they require jurors with the ability to join the dots and do some work to put the puzzle pieces together and recognise the big picture. As your post demonstrates, that is sadly beyond the intellectual abilities of some!
I hope the family finds peace in the aftermath. And to answer the question “why?” is to take the long dark road to understanding what a sociopath is. I highly recommend the book “The Sociopath Next Door” by Martha Stout for an introduction to this confusing and painful situation. I wish you all the best
That is such a good point. I don't think most people really realize how common sociopaths are and even psychopaths for that matter. Some people may just think well he's a little narcissistic he loves attention he can't handle his emotions or maybe he get violent sometimes when he's in a bad mood. Well guess what. Those are warning signs.
Some of us do recognize the signs and are able to get away early on. Unfortunately people need to listen to their family and friends when they try to warn them. If I had only insisted my elderly dad come stay with me he wouldn't have been murdered. Ì did beg him to come stay with us and he was like oh she will settle down she just gets this way at times. He was poisoned and killed 2 days later. Please listen when loved ones tell you to leave....they love you and have your best interests in mind.
A narcissist. Not a sociopath in this case. They cannot stand somebody leaving them and taking their possessions - e.g. kids. They also don't want to pay child support. So even though they resent their kids and never really took care about them, many choose to fight the custody not to pay the child support. Then they abuse their kids and use them to further hurt the other parent. Narcissists are all about their ego - which is huge, yet very fragile. You hurt the ego, you pay for it!
Her fiance seems to be a sweet, loving man and it is so sad they didn't get a chance. Her family also seem so nice. I know personally there really isn't closure and all you can do is carry on with the memories and love. May they find peace and special prayers for Kiara.
What makes you think she wouldn't have done the same thing to him? She was willing to take her ex-husband's child out of state and send him the bills. Had she got away with it, it would have emboldened her to do it again. She engineered her own fate.
@@broeheemed32 why do you people keep talking about her taking away the child. He wanted no kids after 13 years of marriage, she was practically raising the baby alone and he was indifferent toward the child. Why is everyone missing this point? Her attitude towards him changed AFTER the baby was born and seeing how he was with her. This man only wanted the child out of spite to the mother. And let’s just pretend that she cheated on him and was taking the child from her father who loved her so much, were his actions justified? Now the child has no mother or father, and for what? He has rights, he could have been in his daughter’s life regardless.
@@TashiPooh - It's not for YOU to decide how much he wanted children or loved his own. It's about another woman who thinks they are HER possessions and that she can just TAKE them away and make HIM pay for them. This is yet another one-sided story from only the woman's perspective. You have no evidence regarding what he wanted...... just what SHE said about him, and it's not like women don't LIE to get what they want.
Absolutely no evidence yet 12 people “regular people” get to say your guilty just because they feel your guilty (that’s scary) he may of killed her but he may of not also,imo he should of been found NOT guilty till they came up with some evidence
Click here to watch more full episodes of "48 Hours": ua-cam.com/play/PLcFHkKbd_jTJiRmfUfLX2Ay_hnf5j3cxH.html
Q to,
Great verdict
@@karenhouser4123 Add
#1 He was a teacher and she was a student # 2 He was a teacher and she was a student
I wasnt sure how this one was goin to turn out. I believe the worst thing he had going for him were the internet searches. His interrogation didn't help him much either. So many killers mess up by not asking how their victims died when the police inform them of the deaths. Not quite as smart as they think they are.
" I am tickled to death to participate in this.." couldnt hide the glee
I couldn't get over the phrasing! "Glad to help" ok, but tickled? To death?
Yrs! That was a very telling and creepy thing to say! Also never asked what had happened before and cuts and bruises on both BOTH hands. Guilty!!!
You are dead???
Yup, creepy and he wanted her "to be reasonable"...what the F ?
The first huge red flag.. he never even asked about Carmen’s demise.
Exactly! It could have been a car wreck or suicide but he didn't ask!
definitely
First red flag…… he wouldn’t shut his mouth.
@@phillipsmom6252 Second .. Those clothes!!
@@tessaducek5601 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Narcissists always think they're the smartest person in the room. It's very satisfying when they're proved wrong.
She's the one who had an affair. Not only an affair, but wanted to take the daughter away. Not even the family had bad things to saw about him.
@@SidewaysInTraffic braindead buffoon lmao I bet you worship Andrew Tate
@@SidewaysInTraffic You do know both things can be true, right? He can be a narcissist and she cheated. Cheating happens for many reasons. Many times it’s because a spouse refuses to acknowledge and address a problem in the relationship. Humans always want to make this a black and white, one-sided problem. Marriage is way too complicated for that. You never know who people are behind closed doors.
@@SidewaysInTraffic What's your point?
@geeneebear By far, the stupidest comment I've read in a long time. Either you cheat or you don't, that's black and white. She told her parents, "Have you ever looked at someone in their eyes and felt like they're the one?" . What excuse for cheating is that lmao.
The fact that he wanted nothing to do with the child until she was leaving makes me so mad. So many parents like that, making it so much harder on the other parent and the child!
He still did not gis daughter, it was a form of control for her mother, that seems obvious to me.
Lawd have mercy you are beautiful 😍
This was filmed in 08, the production of the episode seemed biased towards the victims family. Compared to the new episodes aired
We only hear one side and it's alway skewed towards the victim.
@@Mazebarber5353 Agreed, she's still the victim and of course didn't deserve to be murdered, but she was a pretty terrible person. She had a baby her husband didn't really want and then immediately started cheating on him and decided she wanted a divorce so she could be with her New Age boyfriend from her pseudoscience cult...not really a good look.
I kept being late with my house chores watching this kinds of crime documentaries 😵 is it just me or most of us who are hooked? 🥴😵
You should listen to podcasts during chore time 😂 that way there's no need to watch the screen. It's a win win! 😉
@@GingerNinja1 great idea. My problem is night time when I should be sleeping. I say "one more episode" but it goes on and on.
Welcome to the club 😂
You are not alone.
You are not alone! I try and watch WHILE I’m cleaning but often find myself too riveted.
Whether I'm at work, driving, or eating, I'm glued to these crime shows. Am I the only one?
No, we are addicts! I fall asleep to them...😆
Nope
At work???
Nope...you're not alone. I am so addicted 🫣
Same
His eyes are wild and frightening. And the hatred in his eyes when holding his daughter. Wow.
A very intruiging face. Hardly ever seen anything like it.
And the fact that the daughter looks JUST LIKE her mom I’m sure didn’t help😢
A monster
I have seen it too. Real hatred! I do not understand why they fight for their kids. Must be about power. Creepy narcissists.
@hollyhope7227
Tell me you dunno what hurt and humiliation a spouse who was cheated on feels without telling me so. Carmen was passionately in love with Larry while still married to Tom.
I will NEVER understand people who talk to the police without an attorney. If you're innocent you need a lawyer and if you're guilty you definitely need a lawyer.
Or agree to take a polygraph. Guilty or not those things are like contacting a psychic.
@@naptime7053 never agree to take a polygraph if your guilty.
Cops play that mind game and most people terrified but I agree 👍🏻
@@naptime7053 Polygraphs are bunkum. But yeah always have legal rep before saying a word.
It is typically arrogant narcissists like this killer Tom Murray who will talk to police without a lawyer, believing themselves smarter than everyone else - including seasoned detectives! Thankfully it usually gets them caught faster.
If someone informed me that my Ex partner was dead, the first thing out of my mouth would be 'how, what happened?', during his 10 hour interview with the police, not once did he ask how she died. No wonder he was the number one suspect right from the start!...
The first thing that would come out of my mouth is silence. My EX is none of my business.
First thing that would pop of my head would be "okay" so🤷
I mean as messed up as it is, he wasn’t going to pretend to care. In all honesty if my ex was being “inappropriate” while we were married than asked for a divorce so they can be with the person they were inappropriate with and then wanted to take our child out of the state I wouldn’t have warm and fuzzy feelings for that person either. She was either naive or stupid to think they would eventually be friends.
This is not about how you would feel if your ex died given the experience you'll once had together but it's pretty common sense to at least inquire as to how she died. It's not normal not to bring up that question up at least once
@@o̸ණ it’s actually not normal especially if they were not on good terms with each other. There are some people who just don’t care about people anymore once the relationship is over. Not asking about an ex doesn’t make you guilty, it just means you don’t care. That’s what common sense tells you.
Larry volunteering with victims of domestic violence absolutely sent me over the edge 😢
Me too, he is/was honoring her memory by doing that, very touching & shows that he is/was a very GOOD MAN!!!!! May they BOTH be Resting In Heaven surrounded by the Angels 😇 ✨️ 🙏 ❤️....
Such a good man he’s willing to date a married woman with a family. Wish we all could be as good as him.
@@furball192 I think you did.
@@furball192 Gr8 b8 m8
@ivermectin1974 yes. It's called adultery. They were both dishonest.
Reminds me of my ex. That's a no. The eyes, the smile....
My ex was the first person to teach me that not everyone feels empathy or has a conscience.
Narcissists do walk this earth. HARD lesson I had to learn. They are almost not even human.
That's because the world doesn't owe you empathy and/or understanding.
@@kenberry8504 it wasn't just me. His parents, strangers...everyone.
Same
yet you had the judgement to love ur ex? kinda says a lot about ur judgement. u delight in evil...
He didn't want her dead. He just wanted her "reasonable." Creepy line! He also had the creepiest eyes in all of the photos!
crazy eyes.
I thought that line was an admission of guilt. The police overlooked that statement. In his mind, Carmin was not reasonable so the logical conclusion is death
And creepy smile
The two men she chose were too creepv.
“I will never let you go, do you hear me? No matter how long it takes, I will keep you safe. And I will find a way for us to be together.”
― Wendy Ownes
I’m glad he acknowledged that his daughter was with a family that loved her.
The sad thing of course was that the little girl was his daughter.......
He actually said He was “ Tickled to death” to help the police a few hours after he learns his ex has been BRUTALLY murdered. That’s not too much of a red flag.
I had the same reaction
Really odd choice of words. An immediate red flag to me
Very odd choice of words. He was a linguistics professor. Unnerving!
Very cold person ! 😡😡
Recipe for disaster from the start.
He married his student.
Power tripper. He broke 'rules' from the start.
Who wouldn't get tired of being controlled?
Look at her pics with her professor husband verses her new fiance.
She looked like 2 different people.
She looked stifled with the husband, and looked loved and free with the fiance.
The smallest detail of his pink sweatshirt and purple sweats was so odd..
I've noticed one thing from watching these types of shows , the guilty never ask how the victim died.
Sometimes the innocent don't ask because they don't care I wouldn't have asked
If my spouse cheated on me and then tried to take my child... I wouldn't care if or how he died. I wouldn't ask. I would not want to be bothered to go to the police station. I would probably say, "He isn't my problem any longer. Go ask his lover..."
@@lulu-iz7bv exactly not my monkeys not my circus
Keen observation.
Spot on.
The few times I've seen it happen, they come across as very fishy. Maybe that's one reason why they avoid asking.
I've been watching Unsolved Cases, Cold Cases and 48 hours for YEARS. I have also cried many many tears. In this life we as humans have choices and decisions we ourselves alone get to make, and brutally killing a loved one should NEVER EVER be good choice . My heart goes out to the family, to Kiara, and also to Larry.
Wow !
Neither should we cheat. If you wanna be open to a new r/s, at least get a divorce and don’t rub your new r/s in your ex-partner’s face. Be sensible.
The fact that Tom didn’t ask “how did she die?” pretty much proves he did it, for me. If Tom was innocent, he might have thought she died from natural causes, like a heart attack.
Maybe he discovered *she was cheating on him since forever before ending things* and he just didn't care anymore. tHe fAcT tHaT she cheated on him is disgusting, no failed marriage give you the right to do that.
So having actual evidence doesn’t really matter? Good grief that’s a ridiculous statement.
That is a common thing that murderers somehow seem to forget.
@@j.akelly9775 well she isn’t on the jury so i think she can express her opinion.
@@itsemeinin that isn’t evidence. Not at all.
Found it impressive that the entire extended family from across the country attended court. One lucky little lady despite the horrible circumstances.
I also liked the Law they have in Kansas ,where the family can privately hire a special helper prosecutor . I would have done the same as her parents did. I think this couple were married way too long before adding a child to their lives. Larry was at retirement age & she quit her income so he was looking on not being able to retire until the child is grown. Had they thought things through they should have broke up when she decided she wanted to be a mom. She could have found a man who was young enough to commit to supporting her & child while she quit her job. It also easy to wait for the divorce is over with before you find a new person to allow around the child and family. This was a older man enraged he was loosing his wife & child. Not because he wanted to love them ,but he is enraged because they are HIS in his mind. This dear child has lost both her parents , this is a terrible crime.
One lucky little cheater.
She is terribly lucky, except for the breathing problems. There's none.
She's dead
@@redacted2275 they were referring to the child! Great for you to be so nasty! I hope someday you get into a relationship that becomes abusive with a narcissist, and face violence...then maybe you won't be so judgemental.
Tom eyes look crazy,I don’t care how nice he want to portray himself,he’s eyes says otherwise
I always look at the eyes. Some people just have that unhinged look. I remember I said that about a guy with dark eyes and got attacked in the comments that I said his eyes look crazy and dark, that it was some kind of prejudiced comment because he was middle eastern. I say that about light colored eyes too. Crazy eyes are crazy eyes. Alex Murdaugh the guy that just killed his son and wife, had dark looking eyes like a shark I didn’t even realize they were blue until they showed a close up of him when he was more calm. It was amazing how a red headed light eyed person eyes go dark like that when he was angry. When he would get angry in court his eyes looked dark. I have seen nice looking people but when they get close enough I then see their eyes and say uh oh, crazy psycho eyes! I saw a good looking guy one night at this Restaurant bar place and when he got close to me and a friend, I said psycho eyes, and some girl sitting next to me said oh my God how did you know that, he is crazy. She has gone out with him and found out he was nuts. I said I just looked at his crazy eyes. He looks unhinged.
Serial killer eyes😮
I can't believe nobody in her family ever saw through his nice guy persona.
@Elvia L. Hernandez maybe he was really a nice guy that was broken by his cheating wife who wanted to take his child away. She broke his heart so he stopped hers. All is fair in love and war
That's what jm saying!! Every picture is terrifying!! It would be so hard tk look into those eyes. How did he fool her family so well?
The moment he talked to police for hours and "wanted her to be reasonable" were two huge red flags. And his first reaction of being inconvenienced.
Even if you hate your ex you would at least ask about your child and their safety. And about what happened.
Tom loved the sound of his own voice! a good respectful upload, I hope Carmen's child is doing well and the family are healing. Rip Carmen
his interrogation made me sick
@@pinkpugginz me too. and then this sweater.....
Larry did it 100%
I actually know several people like this.
It's so sick and invasive how they film off of this. US is such a sick country.
I worked with family courts and custody disputes for YEARS.. People change at this point. They're not the same spouse you married. Things get dirty and rough it's very sad.
Well, for one, custody disputes reach down to the pride of each individuals.
Aside from having custody of the child, it makes the losing parent suffer by being away from their child. Nothing hurts a parent than their own offspring hating them.
@@junehalog024 my ex-wife doesn't seem bothered by my kids hating her
@@davidwoermansr Well... There are people who are like that but we have to consider 3 things here... One, how old are the children. 2, how old you are and three... How much they hate your wife, their step mom...
@@junehalog024 1 the kids are now all adults the youngest 2 just turned 18 not long ago 2 my age has nothing to do with it and 3 it's their egg donar not their step mother and the oldest 2 were 10 the youngest 2 not yet 6 months when she dumped them at my parents while I was in a coma not expected to live after a horrible accident and said I can't do this and walked away for the last time they'd ever see her or hear from her by her choice her and her new hubby live less than 5 miles from me in a camper on 5 acres I had no use for so I gave her so she could be close to the kids and be in their lives she made the choice
@@davidwoermansr Well, I'm just looking out for any possible problems that may arise for you and your family.
But looks like things are still in better shape than most who maybe in a situation where the kids don't like their step mother. Your situation is different since the woman is the egg donor so she is, in all shape or form, their biological mother.
As a footnote, I'm glad for you that you got better after that incident. I may not know what you went thru to get into a coma but alas, here you are and so, I, for one, am glad for you, sir. ,👍
I’m not a person who likes drama but give me anything with science and I’m all about it. 48 Hours has been one of my favorite crime shows. This guy is a nutter. RIP Carmen 🙏🏼🕊️🙏🏼
There is no science in this case.
I loved when her dad said “I would hurt him right then badly” 👍🏻👏🏻 she was daddy’s little girl for sure , bless them all 🙏🏻
So would I have!!🙄🙄🤬🤬
She hurt Tom by being passionately in love with Larry while still married to Tom. She got what she deserved.. Her family knew about the affair too..
It was great to see a rookie prosecutor, Angela Wilson, cut her teeth on a case she cared so deeply about and WIN against seasoned defense attorneys. Good for her! This case was surely fantastic for her career. Tom was the perfect image of a narcissist; gloating from the very start during his interrogation and thinking he was so much smarter than everyone else. It was honestly so gross. I’m glad Carmin’s family got justice for her and can find some closure knowing that their granddaughter and niece won’t be raised by the man who took her away from them prematurely in a most grisly and cruel manner. That search history from his computer sure did prove that he’s a literature professor and not a computer scientist! HA!
For how smart these narcissists always think they are, they sure are stupid when it comes to searching the internet. It seems to get them every time.
You're happy a man was convicted and not a single peice of evidence placed him there!? Lord what a scary world we live in if we're celebrating convictions without a single peice of evidence!!
@@jayr3635 Thank you! Someone with a Brain. So many people jump on the band wagon.
@Rebecca Malone I've searched the internet for things like he did. Doesn't mean anything.
👍
Professor falling for his student will always be a scarlet red flag.
Well he was omly 27 at the time.
Student was a pain in the rear end.
@@granny58 it's not about age hello. It's about power dynamic ffs
Yea correct that whole situation seems like something left out. Any teacher married to student weird. Hate to think or reply about deceased she was not all in reality what were those jobs after lawyer. Now Tom was a murderer no doubt. It was strange seems like everyone trying to cover up unknown.
@@lunatic5162 if they’re adults then who cares if one is the teacher and the other the student ffs
"I never wanted Carmen dead, I wanted her reasonable."
That sounds like a confession to me.
Yup!
Me, too. Like, wtf?!
Coercive control.
@@ivydickson7596 sounds like it.
Absolutely! Also sadly sounds like something my ex would say.
This is such an incredibly heartbreaking case! 3 things that I took away despite the horror:
1. Ciara will grow up in a family of love despite losing BOTH parents
2. Angela - you're a rock star! You fought as a NEW prosecutor and won 🙌
3. Larry - turned his tremendous loss into the gift of helping others and asking nothing in return by volunteering.
NOTHING can bring a loved one back, but the cycle of moving forward in grace and stewardship will definitely make an impact on the world.
So true
Kiara not Ciara, and you are correct.
@@brandyyolidio4213 no she’s actually correct it is with a C pay attention to the video “ciara”
So beautifully expressed, thank you createwithcas.
Certainly not victim blaming, but I also took away from it that she was going to counseling doing everything she could to keep her marriage together while having another man on the side. She obviously wasn't giving her marriage that honest last try. You can't be carrying on two relationships and be honest to none.When a chew relationship is honest, in just one.
The fact that he never asked what happened to her when they told him she died and took him to the police station, tells me he is definitely guilty
Well they could've edited it out; this show is about making him look guilty, since he was convicted.
@c m yeah I'm watching this and they make her sound like a Saint. She was all messed up. Couldn't settle on a career, changing her mind about kids so late in life and cheating on her husband. Everything was all about her according to this show. And they call the killer the narcissist.
@@Stephie84488 they were two narcissists in a narcissistic society. She may have been a saint, IDK, and she may have been a good mother and housewife and him too but they omit so much info that it's deceptive. I mean, all her family can say about her is a list of words and cliche's, like they didn't really know her. If I eulogize a family member, I would also have to say all the things that made them mad, that they didn't like, and tell some specific stories. Since she kept herself apart from her family, everything they are saying is cast into doubt, and this is their story. Although they do interview his students and they liked him. What excuse do the producers have for not interviewing his family, I wonder. They don't offer a disclaimer, like, ``we tried to interview his parents but couldn't.'' Very unjournalistic/deceptive.
@@quickchris10 this show is all about making men look guilty and hailing messed up, adulterer women. The people blindly believe the women. Like in this case, where was the DV? Proof? I replied to a comment on Barry Morphew which called him evil, lacking morality, that wasn't his wife the one who lacked character since she cheated? As Barry is yet to be found guilty, how can you be so sure? And I invited a ton of women giving me the same treatment they gave Barry. Calling me judgmental, psycho, murderer for pointing out that a man is not those evil traits at least until he's proven guilty without doubt.
This guy is innocent, I don’t think he did it. That’s the problem with shows like this- viewers THINK they are seeing the entire case unfold before them, lol when in fact, you are only seeing tiny scraps of the real case. In reality--You’re seeing what the producers of the show want you to see
Very sad. What a loving family to raise her daughter.
She killed herself at 16 rip
@@DMEseter It's shocking and sad.
🙄
@@DMEseter this is very sad! Thank you for this information. Just wondering on how did you find out.
The murderous husband's grandiosity in the interview is something else!
Amen on what the dad said in the beginning. “This case will be solved….I will spend every last penny!” I would do the same!!!!
Theres no one home behind the professors eyes, even when they were supposedly happy. That sold me.
The poor Lady's Father said "Tom couldn't have done this, he doesn't have the GUTS!! Never underestimate what people are capable of.
When the fam said Tom doesn't drink excessive or smoke or had any bad things to say over a period of what 8 years? Hmm something doesn't seem right.
@SidewaysInTraffic As soon as her father said "he was too good to be true", THAT WAS A RED FLAG RIGHT THERE!!!!!! That IS EXACTLY WHAT & WHEN everyone SHOULD be weary & watchful of & for!!!!!!
it's exactly the gutless who are capable of doing horrible things to those physically weaker than themselves
@@SidewaysInTraffic There are people that we just never really know who they truly are
That’s right.. sad when you can’t trust the people that supposedly love you 😢
Anyone else find themselves struggling to hold back tears by the end of these ?😩
RIP Carmen & Larry Lima 🤍 & to the rookie prosecutor for absolutely CRUSHING that case 👏 Amazing
Yea, usually after a few episodes I need to pet my cats or watch cute animal videos. Take care of yourself 😊
Me
Lmao, calling that a "absolutely CRUSHING that case" is extremely embarrassing. She was choking, stuttering, and being over dramatic. The only reason that she won the case was not necessarily because of how "she presented herself", it was literally below par btw. But because of the computer forensics and the emotional/biased jury and people involved in it. Saying that she "absolutely CRUSHED that case" is worse than an over-exaggeration.
@@dinuxplay8003exactly lmao
they died?
These videos have the perfect tile, because I put one on to watch, fall sleep and I swear another 48 hours worth play while I sleep! 😂 I got back to my history to find where I left off and loads have played without me knowing 😂
Having a psychopath in my family I know all about the “facade” they create to look good and normal. Thank God they found him guilty.
Amen to your comment. I have to remind myself that "Mercy doesn't rob justice", either in this life or the next.
Yes!
They are chameleons ,you'll never see a psychopath coming ,until the damage is done .
@@christo3635 very true, I was married to one, my life was a mess when I was with him. I didn't realize how bad of a mess until I was able to get away from him.
@@jodeeps2287 I completely understand! Most people don't realize they are tangled up with a predator like that until it's to late.. These psychopaths have a way of mimicking normalcy to get past your radar , and they tend to go after empaths ,who are beautiful inside and out.. 😊
My heart breaks for Carmen’s parents. I agree with them that an affair only worsens an unhappy situation. Her husband was a psychopath.
I am a parent who’s daughter was murdered, brutally and dismembered. She was 23 in 2010. I don’t say this for sympathy, but because I 💯 understand.
So what else is new
@@sacredcoaching7332 I am so sorry for your louse! May her soul be in peace!
This story is the second one I’ve seen where the wife had a baby with a narcissist who didn’t want the child in the first place, but when it came to custody all they cared about was winning. I cannot understand why anyone would want a child with someone who doesn’t want children. Do they think that once the child arrives their mind would change?
Well, I believe many ppl would become psychopaths if their partners acted the way Carmen did-- being passionately in love with a new man while still being married. Talk about disrespect!
When Angela hugged Carmen’s family, I cried. Great job!
Thank you 48 hours , so much to cover, and yet 48 hours has allways delivered true fact and clear speaking journalist!
The way he is staring in the camera and smirking in all the wrong moments gives me the creeps.
As terrible as her death was, don't have an affair ever. Affairs are narcissistic and nothing good comes from them. Don't listen to your pals telling you how happy you look either. Get a divorce, take time to heal, and then proceed with your life.
Affairs are bad but that's not narcissistic, you people need to understand that disorder,don't confuse selfishness with narcissism
I got 4 great kids from an affair they aren't biologically mine but they're mine I got sole custody of all my kids and raised them by myself in 6 years tha youngest will graduate
@@davidwoermansr haha that’s like saying you feel off a 3 story building and didn’t break any bones - just cuz something may have turned out better than expected doesn’t mean it’s a good idea
@@WideAwakeHuman it was a great idea in fact the only reason I married the second time was to adopt the kids divorce her and get the kids safe that was her parents idea and they paid for it all
Cheating is never acceptable.
She should have left her husband, got divorced first, then started seeing this other guy.
When u take a person's world away, you don't know what they are capable of!
Dude had nerve to say, “I am tickled to death…”
Rest in peace, Larry, you are now with the woman you loved. ❤️ My sincere condolences to the families involved and especially her beautiful little girl. 🙏🙌
Oh, has Larry passed away. He sounded like a beautiful caring Man.
@@auntyshakira747Larry seemed like a great person. I agree. Yes, Larry passed in 2011.
I truly believe, he passed of a broken heart...
" soul mates " 😔😔
Once her k!ller was brought to justice, he was able to join her. 🕊🕊
@@auntyshakira747 His obituary (2011) says he is survived by his 2 daughters amd describes him as a loving family man, so he must have married, though it doesn't mention a wife. The obit was clearly written by those who loved him.
What a scary point in any womans life. So very sad. Any relationship started before the previous one is over is a bad situation.
Except that it happens all the time.
If only there was a thing called accountability or something 😂
@@Tero92 truth. I neglected to mention.. leaving a relationship is the scary point. Personally i have never left my husband nor even had a point i even thought to, but in a bad relationship the leaving point is the bad part.
Yes, it isn't wise.
Yes, yes, yes! I just don't understand how otherwise smart women do something so dumb. When you cheat and then rub salt into the wound by moving the child away--and then you move the boyfriend you cheated with and dumped the husband for into the home with the child... It is like swimming in the shark tank with a bloody finger.
I hope you all have a wonderful day ❤️. Thank you 48 for being the voice for all the victim's 🕊️🕯️
☀️ ❤
@Meranda Smith I hope you have a wonderful day as well 💕🤗
Thanks dear, you too! Have a great day ❤❤
You all as well 😊
I hope you have a beautiful day ❤ and 48 is a voice for all
The cuts and bruises on his hands and wrists says everything
No DNA or fingerprints
To hear this father talks about his daughter is heartbreaking. His pain is palpable. RIP.
Eye roll
As I continue watching these true crime documentaries, I realize 2 things:
1) horrible/ tragic murders happen to the most nicest, wonderful people
2) it’s always the people closest to you that commit the horrible act.
It’s scary…..
It’s not always people closest to you. I would say half and half. Also, a lot of those people are innocent… every single one of us should be scared to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, or just happen to be mad at someone and they god forbid get killed.
@@diaryofarealmom3264 Sure, be a convicted murderer apologist. Make you feel better???
A cheater is a nice person?
3) If a person seems to good to be true, he/she probably is...
How was she a good person?
I knew he was guilty when he broke his mask and smirked when the fiancé said he was about to move to town to be with her. It was like he was saying “haha and now you can’t”. The fiancé was ready to drop everything for her like she truly deserved and honestly that’s what got to that loser. He was losing her, possibly his daughter and control he wishes he still had. She was so brave to move on and find happiness away from a man like that because he probably tried to break her down for years and you can just tell from his interrogation he gets off on feeling like he is intellectually superior. He loves to gaslight and run circles for hours feeling like he’s a cat with a mouse on the run. No matter what he thinks he did to her she is and always will be free from him while he rots in prison because guess what. Now that basket case can’t do to his daughter what he tried to do to his wife. She will always be her butterfly and flying angel 💜
Not asking how she died, or ask for any details, when the police informed him of her death.
AMEN 🙏 🙏 🤲 🙏 🤲 🙏 🤲 🙏 🤲
That's just editing film to fit the narrative. I'm not convinced with zero physical evidence. I think they had tunnel vision and locked him up so they wouldn't have to bother looking for whose blood and shoe print at the crime scene that was.
Seemed to me that he wanted his daughter just to thumb his nose at the family. I've known people like that, more interested in spite than what's right.
@@NiecieSavo Bruised wrists from cutting a pineapple?
My goodness what an absolutely heartbreaking story!! But I'm so glad justice was served in the end!!
I must say that Tom's face gave me goosebumps from the very beginning!! He just had one of those ice cold emotionless empty looks!!
I thought the same. I was married to a narcissist. I can spot those cold, dead, eyes.
Very that
@@BBB-rd2qi I'd you can spot them eyes, then why did you marry him?
@@deannamarshall8894
Just perhaps, after being married to one.
And from experience, she was able to spot narcissistic energy in form.
Just sayin’…
Me too, right from the start he gave me the creeps 😖
I have an abusive ex husband too..and one thing I learned is to put hidden cameras inside and outside my home..and got my gun license..learned how to shoot at a shooting range and purchased my first gun for safety...Never let your guard down from anyone.. especially an abusive ex
Did you cheat on your ex and take ur kids far away to live with ur new husband too?
@@Nick2bad4ualthough that's morally wrong it doesn't matter, the ex was a controlling narcissist and I'm not surprised she cheated. She should have left before started a new relationship but often when with an abusive partner a new one is an escape. I'm not condoning cheating but I understand it.
Well if you don’t cheat, you’ll have nothing much to worry about.. Tom isn’t abusive. Carmen cheated right under his nose. Tom wanting to get back at her is par for the course. Her family painted her as an angel. She’s not. She’s also not a looker. Would you feel insulted and upset if your husband is happily dating someone else while still married to you?!!
@@ABC-ed8cg currently no because his snoring keeps me awake every night I'd gladly give him to another woman!
@emmalouise7884
That’s cos you will happily divorce your hubby. Tom wanna salvage the marriage. He’s not the kind to philander. Carmen was the outgoing & extroverted kind who couldn’t settle on a job and r/s. Assuming you love someone very much and he cheats on you and wanna take everything away from you, you’ll feel cornered too..
If one person wants kids and the other doesn’t, the relationship is over. Period. There is no compromise in that situation. It’s too bad she didn’t walk away and find happiness the minute she decided she wanted to be a mother instead of staying with the scumbag she chose for fatherhood. 💔
But she didn't stay with him?
@@longwong8311 she definitely had a kid with him though.
@@uhsaywhatnow Had a kid, then cheated on him at some fantasy healing convention. Then tried to take his daughter away to live with the man she destroyed their family with. What a woman.
@@drewasciutto8547 the daughter who he clearly did not want otherwise *parents* would have never had custody!! Nor would he had been at the police station voluntarily for 10 hours!! Don't you think any halfway decent father would want to be consoling his daughter after her mother was brutally murdered?!!
he wanted kids in the beginning when it seems she didn't, but after thirteen years and being older I also wouldn't suddenly want children
Not the first time we've heard the murderer was googling stuff like that for a book!!😂 Just Saying. 😮😳🤔🤦♂️🤷♀️
I immediately thought of Nancy Brophy. Haha. She was something else!
And surely he's never published fiction before or we would have heard about it
Seems to be a theme in real crime
Doesn't prove anything without additional evidence.
I've watched a metric ton of true crime documentaries. Some have taken place in places I lived or very close to where I live currently. This is the first to actually occur where I was, when I was there. Strange feeling, knowing you may have sat in a booth across from them at the local diner or given them a polite smile in the grocery store. I hope Carmen is able to rest peacefully, knowing her beautiful daughter is being raised by her loving and dedicated family.
Aaraar😢@4xfeqqq 41:31 41:31 41:31
AMEN 🙏 🙏 🤲 🙏 🤲 🙏 🤲
Her family just wanted the kid and they didn't care who they locked up to meet that end. This case was flimsy at best.
@Niecie Even if you're correct, it doesn't negate the fact that they love their daughter/sister and granddaughter.
Also, if you notice, I at no time mentioned guilt or innocence. Your position/opinion may be valid. Your comment is misplaced.
1000 kilogrammes.
Obviously, this guy is the most likely culprit and I do think he's the murderer, but I'm not sure if his guilt is proven beyond reasonable doubt. Sketchy search histories and an enemy's death alone aren't enough to imprison someone for the rest of their life in my honest opinion. I do believe they've got the right man in this case, but this kind of trial seems very dangerous; sooner or later someone innocent is gonna end up in a prison cell.
I’m sure there are already innocent people sitting in prison for crimes they didn’t commit. Some have already been proven innocent years later. Although this man might have been guilty….I don’t think there was any evidence to prove without a doubt that he committed this crime.
@@theresabarker3522 As a lawyer with 12 years of experience litigating cases, this is a nightmare. There is nothing to say … This is almost terrifying that it was prosecuted at all. Nothing puts him at the crime scene, all they have is him spending as much time as possible to talk to them without a lawyer … There are plenty of reasonable doubts. This is a horrifying case, even if it is most likely the husband did it. Too many unknowns, and once again, the only thing to say is that this is the kind of case that puts innocent people in jail. The defense put on a better case, too. They just had an unlikeable client with a questionable internet search history (that, in my opinion, was reasonably explained). He is a professor of language and he talks a lot, has searched the internet for CSI type materials, it's not about what the prosecution thinks; it is about what they can prove. One of the worst convictions I've ever seen and when I clerked I did tons of appellate work. This is unlikely to be a conviction that holds up on appeal. I could tear this to pieces … A seasoned appellate worker is going to tear this conviction to pieces. Life in prison over internet searches in an age where all our internet searches would hang us… especially for true crime fans.
This is terrifying.
I was thinking the same thing. A whole lot of reasonable doubt was going on here - the prosecution should not have gone to trial when they did, because if I was in that jury box I would've had to vote innocent, even though I also think he did it.
Thank you, and all of you who replied to this comment, also, for restoring my faith that not everyone is so easily swayed by simple finger-pointing! I have no idea how this case even went to trial.
@@Brandon-a-writer I came here to find out if there was an appeal, and what was the outcome if so. I too believe he ought to have had a better jury, however, he has no one but himself to blame for saying anything other than " LAWYER PLEASE" from the moment police had contact with him. Without his big dumb mouth, he almost certainly would have walked. I bet he is kicking himself in prison. As an aside, couldn't bear the Father saying " she was trying SO hard to save the marriage"--when we already know she was seeing that Lima dude, lol. People are strange. Still, a tragic case all round, really felt for her sisters and how much they clearly adored Tom. Having to digest him doing what he did must be surreal.
When after the verdict, he chose the words "I remain nonplussed" to describe his feelings at that moment, says so much about his personality. Yes, he is an English prof, but it came across so academic and arrogant. 😣
Isn’t amazing how Carmen’s family was united and there for the entire trial! You didn’t see a soul representing or supporting Tom. Other than his highly paid lawyers. Of course! That alone says a lot about the type of man he is. Narcissist tend to alienate people.
Most intellectual ppl don’t have lots of friends. Just because you have lots of friends doesn’t mean much. Some ppl just have a big family and lots of church friends. Intellectual ppl like a professor tend to be atheist so they won’t have any church friends.
Carmen was a failed lawyer and held a few patchy jobs. Some ppl like her are extroverts and can’t settle down, which explain her cheating ways anyway. She also made lots of bad decisions, cheating being one of them. Her whole family supported her cheating on Tom. Says a lot about them. Instead of divorcing him first, she went out and date some other guy under his nose. Tell me which married man won’t feel insulted and upset?! Would you if your spouse acted in this manner?? Who’s the narcissistic one here?
@@ABC-ed8cg Her family disregarded whose fingerprints were there and that there was no evidence at all. They were just a pack of simpletons. Only one experiences cognitive dissonance with her mixed feelings when he was found guilty without a shred of actual evidence.
I'll never understand why folks can't just move on. You didn't even want the child in the first place. Now look!
He never wanted a child before or after he just wanted to torture Carmen once they split up!!!
Men are told to do the right thing all their lives. Just because u dont want a child doesnt change ur duty once one is born.
It is a matter of control. Many people end up killing their partners even without having kids on their own. "If you arent mine, nobody will have you" line of thought
what if he later loved the kid? whats the problem with that?
@@EJ-74 you don't know that you are just talking bs
Thank you for uploading all these old episodes! They're old, but new to me. I've already watched all the new ones from the past few years.
Thank you 48hours for putting this full episode on
Very sad. It's great that the daughter has such a loving family to grow up with.
Till she was 16 and took her own life
OMG that is so sad 😢 💔RIP
Wow this was a tough one! I’ve no doubt that he’s guilty. He had cuts to his hand, very strong motive, her injuries were very personal but was the evidence there? I’d hate to be on that jury.
A life sentence with no evidence besides circumstantial? It's outrageous really. They never pursued any other leads either.
Theres no evidence at all.
So the only outcome should be to set him free.
What a lucky little girl to have such amazing extended family.
"I never wanted Carmen dead. I wanted her reasonable." Probably didn't intend on killing her, but when she told him her bf was moving in with her & their daughter that to him wasn't reasonable. Multiple cuts on his right hand & both wrists were bruised...tells me they absolutely have the right man in prison. He had the means, the motive & the opportunity & who else would've had that, but him!
The two foot prints at the crime scene that don't match him give me pause though
No teacher should be looking or being with their students. That's Red Flag number 1. Number 2 just being that nice. There's no way anyone's that nice. its called the mask. Its what they want u to see than behind closed doors u have no idea how they really are. its to trick u so when they do bad u wont think they did it. I don't get how no one can understand that. of course its the guy u don't think can do it. wake up people.
I want her reasonable, meaning, I want her to do what I want.
YES -- that and he did not ask anything about how she died! He said "do we have to do this now" --- he is either insane, or that shows he did it or hired someone to do it.
I truly appreciate the saying that "an absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence".
For some reason, after watching SO MANY of these shows, this one disturbed me greatly. I think because the defendant seems like such a closet Jekyll and Hyde. The crime scene photos, the brutality, the rage, and the meekness combines to an unusual level.
Tom had a "I'm smarter than all of you" complex. In the end,justice prevailed
No evidence no proof. Therefore he’s innocent.
Just started watching, but I'm recognising Tom's narcissism already. (Once a person seems too good to be true, then they are. ) That's a huge red flag!! Covert narcissists seem charismatic and charming, but in fact, they are very manipulative and vindictive. I get it that the family finds it confusing, but narcissism generally is. May Carmen RIP. 🙏
I concur!! Also, made me think of the saying; "Still waters run deep". For me, I felt uneasy at the coldness in his eyes, even in photos taken as a young man, like there was something missing.
@Margaret Whittaker yes, that's one of the giveaways - their eyes are cold, which mirrors their soul. Very sad!
If being good and treating someone right in a relationship is a red flag what's the point in treating them right
@@davidwoermansr - You might be a narcissist. You don’t know her treated her right! You only know what he chose to show the world.
After working with victims of narcissistic abuse for ten years, it is a easy to spot the cold dead eyes.
In his sentencing he talks about the daughter "I" brought into this world.
Tom said he cut his fingers and bruised his wrists cutting up a pineapple. That's enough for me.
I agree, yet I'd expect his DNAto be at the scene with cuts on his hands.
How could anyone even buy the excuse that those hand wounds were caused by "slicing a pineapple"?? Bruised wrists? Carmen was likely grabbing them to keep him from striking her. I am glad the jury did the right thing. Justice was served.
IKR???!!!! The detectives SHOULD have arrested him IMMEDIATELY right then & there!!!!!! SMDH....
Then how come there was none of his dna found there? If he sliced himself during the crime then his dna would had been left behind , or did he magically Manage to not bleed out despite being cut ?
@@cerealrakist7360 yeah that part for sure is a mystery. I'm not convinced he did it but I do think he may have hired someone to. I don't know how he could have done it and them not find any dna whatsoever or even under her fingernails.
I have cut up many pineapples-and generally they do not fight back...so how would uncut yourself?!
We know he did it. But he was being used by Carmen she was a horrible person.
Guilty or innocent, he gives me the creeps.
I can’t imagine what this family has went through lots of prayers and love for them her little girl, Carmen family and friends.❤️🙏🏼
AMEN 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏
Her little girl is back with her
@@davidwoermansr
Why do you say that?
@@laswan5 unfortunately she committed suicide when she was 16
Oh no, how sad. Thanks for the update David.
GUILTY! GOOD JOB JURY
Guy cheats on wife: “What a terrible husband. How could you do that to her?”
Woman cheats on husband: “She deserves to be happy.”
I know, right. The hypocrisy is real. So sick of this double standard - I'm a woman!
Good point
Yes women deserve to always be happy. Men are expected to be miserable because he made a vow. Men need to learn to love like a woman does. "I do until my feelings change. Now I deserve to be happy". Men do not get married
This use to be the way unfaithful men defended their adultery. Since women have been liberated, they are doing the same.
@@maricamaas2326 True that. Maybe we all deserve to be happy, regardless. I don't know if love can be owed to anyone.
I'm so obsessed with 48 hours episodes my my !
when the child grows a bit more she may come across this episode...I hope she only remembers that her mother loved her and nothing else about this very tragic story. I also hope that she will be able to grow peacefully and lead a happy life.
She should be in her mid 20s now... This occurred 20 years ago.
@@kaliblue72 she ended her life at 16
@Jessi Szatkowski the local news her parents newer stories about the case take your pick Google can probably help make it easier
@@davidwoermansr
OK I found someone else who said the same thing. That's truly sad. But thanks for the update.
@@johnm725 this is so tragic 😥 I don't want to believe it
The father kept saying his greatest fear is that the professor would be found “innocent”. Our system never can prove someone is innocent, it is designed to prove someone is “not guilty”.
There is an enormous chasm between the two
Very grand of you to sacrifice personal time to correct a victim...I bet he read your comment and he cares
Ha! In the U S A it is usually guilty until proven innocent!
A linguist.
@@AlissaSss23 Alina, go easy now. The distinction between not guilty and innocent is actually very important to point out…not guilty does not mean innocence, it means guilt cannot be proven. This leaves the door always open to the possibility the defendant actually committed the crime.
Fascinating as always. Surprised Netflix hadn't already made doc about this one
I’m still stuck on the fact that he was her college professor that’s weird and creepy
When her Dad said, ' Tom, you're too good to be true,' - that was the FIRST red flag 💯 of the narcissist he was.
Do I feel like he did it? Yes. Was there enough evidence for a conviction, absolutely not.
Computer searches will get you every time.
@@girlygal098lol, they literally PROVED nothing
So sad that Larry passed away so soon afterward. He wasn’t that old. I hope the daughter is ok now.
She killed herself
No, many comments say Ciara killed herself at age 16 😢
@@nicolaxoxo1 Oh no, I hope that’s not true! So awful if it is.
Watch the video, it says at the end of it that she was getting married in the summer, she didn't commit suicide!
By the way how's OJ doing with his search for the real killer? I remember him vowing to never rest until they are found and he'll do everything he can to find them and bring them to justice.
In case you don't know he is dead now.
Rest in perfect peace Carmen and Larry. ❤️🙏❤️
And Carmen's daughter
Bless her heart. Lost one parent to prison and the other to the grave. 💔 God love you baby.
Then took her own life at 16
This guy has that unmistakable vibe of a highly educated, professorial type. It’s rare people like this don’t consider themselves superior and smarter than everyone around them. At the end of the day street smarts, common sense and good old fashioned wisdom always win because anyone can educate themselves; but street smarts are earned. There is great satisfaction watching arrogant educated people crushed under the weight of wisdom.
He might have written a good shlock TV script, but Man! Did he lack "Reason and a Humanity." No, he wasn't about to lose everything, he still had his job. He should have walked by a homeless encampment and then try feeling sorry for himself, the fool!
@@jhavajoe3792 Agreed! Great comment!
There's definitely reasonable Doubt. We are missing tons of information
This is What I call justice. Well done jury and justice services.
So we convict people without evidence now
@@chadpayne956 the evidence is clear. His computer tell exactly what he had in mind and lets not forget the wounds in his hand. He killed her without a doubt.
Guess it’s easy to convict who the police say is the only one with a motive. Wow this is unreal. They didn’t spend a second looking into anyone else. Good job.
Miscarriage of justice
Yea that was not a good marriage either.
Can't imagine being that prosecutor. I think I'd have changed careers. Carmin's boyfriend looks a lot like her dad when he was young. No matter how old they are, it's so scary to think of the harm that could come to our children out in the world. This should never have happened. RIP, Carmin and Larry.
You are all talking like she was the pinnacle of morality, a saint... get off your high horse, she was cheating on her husband for a long time without an ounce of guilt and was moving to another state with their kid.
It doesn't matter if Tom didn't want children before or if she wanted him to be on the child's life, she was selfish enough to make it hard. Nooooo, she didn't deserve her faith, of course! No one does! My issue here is the holier-than-thou tone of your comment.
@@redacted2275 Carmen was an impressionable student.
The professor broke professional boundaries by even developing a relationship with one of his students.
"Youth and beauty money and power"
Carmen was a human being, not a dog that required training by its owner.
That man is so full of himself, thinking nobody is more clever than him,but fortunately he got that wrong 😞
Such a nice lady, big loss for her family, daughter and fiance 😢
God bless the prosecutor for her very hard work. God bless the family and blessing on them for being able to raise the victims daughter. Rip Carmen
This is a classic example of prosecuting someone when you don’t actually have a case. Lord have mercy on any of us if we ever stand before a jury because they don’t really care about actual evidence and they will convict you based on what they think.
It’s scary! Many innocent are behind bars because of this.
I think he's guilty, but I agree ... the case was too weak
oh my gosh... they couldn't even prove he was there; none of his blood, no fingerprints, no one saw his car there etc. but yet... guilty. wow! I was so shocked at the verdict
@@bladefiresc59 but the motive was exceedingly strong. Moreover, the searches found on his computer in relation to when the crime occurred was damning. Also the bloody shoe prints should have been taken into consideration. There are enough precedented cases were people have used shoes either to large or too small to throw off investigators.
You're obviously one of those people who expects a criminal case to be handed to you on a silver platter, all wrapped with with a bow. That's not how evidence works - there is rarely ever a photograph taken at the moment the killer commits the crime! And every case is judged to the standard 'Beyond a reasonable doubt' NOT simply 'Beyond a doubt'. Legal language is very precise for good reason!
You no doubt have total faith in DNA evidence and forensics generally, and make the rookie mistake of thinking circumstantial evidence is somehow inferior. It isn't. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence, and a circumstantial case, given the right amount and quality of evidence, can be even more compelling than a forensic one. This was actually a VERY strong case - so strong, that the killer Tom Murray's 2008 appeal was dismissed!
The only potential problem with primarily circumstantial cases, is they require jurors with the ability to join the dots and do some work to put the puzzle pieces together and recognise the big picture. As your post demonstrates, that is sadly beyond the intellectual abilities of some!
Tom has such crazy eyes.
my very first thought.
Narcissist's eyes.
🤪
I hope the family finds peace in the aftermath.
And to answer the question “why?” is to take the long dark road to understanding what a sociopath is.
I highly recommend the book “The Sociopath Next Door” by Martha Stout for an introduction to this confusing and painful situation.
I wish you all the best
That is such a good point. I don't think most people really realize how common sociopaths are and even psychopaths for that matter. Some people may just think well he's a little narcissistic he loves attention he can't handle his emotions or maybe he get violent sometimes when he's in a bad mood. Well guess what. Those are warning signs.
Some of us do recognize the signs and are able to get away early on. Unfortunately people need to listen to their family and friends when they try to warn them. If I had only insisted my elderly dad come stay with me he wouldn't have been murdered. Ì did beg him to come stay with us and he was like oh she will settle down she just gets this way at times. He was poisoned and killed 2 days later. Please listen when loved ones tell you to leave....they love you and have your best interests in mind.
@@virginiabalch6274i'm so sorry this has happened to you, i hope you've been able to heal even if just a little bit ❤
A narcissist. Not a sociopath in this case. They cannot stand somebody leaving them and taking their possessions - e.g. kids. They also don't want to pay child support. So even though they resent their kids and never really took care about them, many choose to fight the custody not to pay the child support. Then they abuse their kids and use them to further hurt the other parent. Narcissists are all about their ego - which is huge, yet very fragile. You hurt the ego, you pay for it!
@@Julienna I heard a psychologist say: don’t worry whether the person is a narcissist or sociopath, just run!
what a phenomenal job by the prosecuting attorneys, especially the assistant DA. she was so passionate, and her caring is what won that case.
Because it sure wasn't the evidence. 😀
Her fiance seems to be a sweet, loving man and it is so sad they didn't get a chance. Her family also seem so nice. I know personally there really isn't closure and all you can do is carry on with the memories and love. May they find peace and special prayers for Kiara.
What makes you think she wouldn't have done the same thing to him? She was willing to take her ex-husband's child out of state and send him the bills. Had she got away with it, it would have emboldened her to do it again. She engineered her own fate.
@@broeheemed32 exactly
@@broeheemed32 why do you people keep talking about her taking away the child. He wanted no kids after 13 years of marriage, she was practically raising the baby alone and he was indifferent toward the child. Why is everyone missing this point? Her attitude towards him changed AFTER the baby was born and seeing how he was with her. This man only wanted the child out of spite to the mother. And let’s just pretend that she cheated on him and was taking the child from her father who loved her so much, were his actions justified? Now the child has no mother or father, and for what? He has rights, he could have been in his daughter’s life regardless.
@@TashiPooh - It's not for YOU to decide how much he wanted children or loved his own. It's about another woman who thinks they are HER possessions and that she can just TAKE them away and make HIM pay for them. This is yet another one-sided story from only the woman's perspective. You have no evidence regarding what he wanted...... just what SHE said about him, and it's not like women don't LIE to get what they want.
Such a great guy. Dates a married woman with a young child. Wow amazing man. We all should strive to be as good as him.
Not sure how this ends but starting to really hate these cases where they convict someone in the court of public opinion without any evidence.
No one wins when it comes to extramarital affairs.
Victim blaming
I've won many times
@@tymom9313 she deserved it
You are true💪
Everyone involved is defeted
Absolutely no evidence yet 12 people “regular people” get to say your guilty just because they feel your guilty (that’s scary) he may of killed her but he may of not also,imo he should of been found NOT guilty till they came up with some evidence