The One Sign of Pathological Narcissism You've Never Heard Before: Part II
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2019
- The One Sign of Pathological Narcissism You've Never Heard Before: Part II
Following up with my previous video, here I clarify that covert and overt narcissism lead to childhood stories that may seem vastly different, but they share one common feature.
Narcissism seems to be born of neglect and abuse, both of which are notorious for creating an insecure attachment style (for more on attachment, see here www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl... and here www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl....
But the very fact that narcissists, for all their posturing, are deeply insecure, also gives us an easy way to spot them. Insecurely attached people can't talk coherently about their family and childhood; their early memories are confused, contradictory, and riddled with gaps. Narcissists often give themselves away precisely because their childhood story makes no sense, and the most common myth they carry around is the perfect family story. If your date sings their praises for their exalted family but the reasons for their panegyric seem vague or discursive, look out. The devil is in the details, as they say -- and very likely, that's why you're not hearing them.
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www.drcraigmalkin.com
But their childhood might actually have been as bad as they paint it?
My ex - who seems to tick just about every CN box - often emphasised her (as she once put it) “crappy upbringing”. This included, her father abandoning the family when she was young; growing up in great poverty, and - most emphasised of all. - a mother who was often absent and who belittled and dominated her.
In other words, the fact they’re not exaggerating doesn’t preclude them from being a narcissist?
John Reynolds good point. As I explain in the video, though, it all depends on how it’s presented.
Dr. Craig Malkin Thanks. I’ll listen again.
John Reynolds my mom is a covert narcissist and my dad was much more overt. I experienced a lot of trauma in my childhood as well. I think the difference between how your wife or I might present our backgrounds is this: some people present use it for manipulative purposes. That’s my mom. I don’t like to talk a lot about my experiences but I do with people I’m really close to many who coincidentally also had some tough experiences in childhood. We have helped each other grow a lot. Not everybody who has adverse child hood experiences turns out to be like their abusive parents. That’s not to say we don’t develop some dysfunctional and unhealthy coping habits which can be corrected over time. Therapy has definitely helped me quite a bit. But there’s a difference between having traits on a continuum and having a diagnosable personality disorder.  and there’s a difference between how my close friends and I use our shared experiences to offer support, encouragement, validation, and purposeful growth. Many of us are Making our way in life doing the best we can and trying to grow through our own healing journeys while developing great personal relationships. And, we don’t use our stories for manipulative purposes or for garnering attention.
LinYouToo Interesting response. Thanks. It’s sounds like I’m more or less you, and my ex is more or less your mum. One thing, though: she isn’t my wife. That’s one mistake I managed to avoid making 😬
John Reynolds 👍
You made me realize something, I get annoyed with people making comments about my looks but it’s always a narcissistic, usually unattractive, male or female, who has only targeted me because of my looks. That’s their focus. I never tell people what I think about their appearance because it’s rude but they definitely do it to me. Exit please ✋🏽
VoL. common pattern, yes.
Has anyone experienced a narcissist with a charming and highly extroverted personality whom exacts narcissist behaviors and punishments covertly?
They like to play 'biggest victim in the room'. No matter what you say out of compassion they always come up with more. This is the point where you leave them stewing in their own juice. My mother has always been like that, and I learned to ignore her. Or remind them of another segment of population who has it much worse.
There is a time before and a time after recognizing what is called narcissistic behavior and the 'world' will never be like before ( better so! ) My world collapsed for some time after I found out how two members of my family - and a co - acted and manipulated everybody around them for a lifetime with their drama. It made me realy sick! Had to dig very deep in the past to find their secret and yes, they were victim and I understand a little more why they have become like that. But it's no excuse to leave a trace of distruction and deeply hurted and frightened 'others' behind them.
What you explain in this video I used to call the 'killer arguments' wich they used to finally always get what they wanted. This is now not working anymore.
Thank you Dr. Malkin I've learned very much from your teachings 🙏
Thank you; Keep posting, great job! Pathological narcissists do not have empathy but can mimick it to get what they want! Their master gaslighters too; got to set strong emotional and personal boundaries! Their predictors! (Breath, sigh)
I just ditched a long-term friend because of this covert behavior...
everything has been a competition with her. "Whoa is me, I'm such a victim, everyone sh*ts on me, I have suffered all my life, no one suffers like me, you are responsible for validating my emotional pain and you must let me vent and go on-and-on-and-on and let me puke my negative verbal vomit on you, (or, If I disagree or try to be positive)...you just don't understand and you are not a good friend if you do not allow me to constantly vent, I work a crappy job so it's ok for me to act like an a-hole when i'm not at work and treat you like garbage when you come a long distance to visit me" . Negative attention, negative one upmanship "I'm more abused, fragile, anxious ,than you, so therefore it's your job to fix it, soothe me, agree with me.
Thank G_d I have a strong inner core and have said "ENOUGH". Not my job to re-parent or mommy this person. When I visited her new home in another state, in a fancy gated community, paid for by her mother, I could she that she has it pretty damned good and has little to whine or complain about.
Wow the mom bought her a new house?I've spoken to one Mom this week with a pathological lying son and it makes me.wonder how many of these people are lying about their childhoods. We think they are being honest until we see them lie on ourselves or others. This man was saying stuff about his Mom to all his girlfriends and the girlfriends didn't believe it over time...he said she opened the doors and or windows to the house and beat him for the neighbors to hear and that a female neighbor came by to check on him. The mother says this neighbor never came to the house. He was using these stories to triangulate...the new girlfriend pays all the rent etc. The mom would have told her not to but because he has been calling her abusive the new gf is going to be guarded. Apparently he has operated like this for years and cut the grandkids out of her life but accepts financial support for them...she told him she had cancer he acted like he didn't hear it.
Interesting vid. My mom is a covert narcissist but expresses often how she had an ‘idyllic’ childhood (you’d think her mom walked on water), while my sister and my dad definitely are overt narcissists but don’t mention their childhoods, really at all. Maybe they’re anomalies.
Thank you for explaining secure attachment in layman's terms, and all that you share.
@ 1:40 you are exactly correct. Additionally, the narcissist will always give their supply hope but never satisfaction, ie; just enough affection to hook the supply., just prior to destroying their life.
The way you explained a narcissist are the same characteristics of someone who suffered childhood trauma
childhood trauma can lead to narcissism?
Yes, cluster b personalities are because of chilhood trauma.
Thank very much for this. This is so interesting and definitely describes some signs I have witnessed in folks higher on the spectrum. You nailed it.
Dr. Malkin, thank you for this clarification. You commented on the previous video that this narcissistic victimhood stance "invites neither compassion nor closeness and it's usually angry. It's more about feeling exceptional for suffering more than others than sharing genuine pain. It's emotionality vs. emotion." I couldn't understand why the person I knew would seem to invite pity on an almost daily basis regarding a million different ailments/sufferings, yet would completely reject ANY actual attempts on my part to feel sympathy or assist in any way. It seemed the more I tried to help, the more I was pushed away. Your comment regarding this stance being about feeling negatively special rather than about inviting "neither compassion nor closeness" is the first time any of this has made any sense for me. I would love to hear more regarding this topic in the future. Do you expand on this in your book? Thank you again for sharing your work.
This message resonates so much 🎯 Thanks, Dr. Malkin 🙏
you're welcome!
Nice to see u back Sir!!
thanks!
Dear Dr Malkin, Thank you so much for this informative video. I find it so helpful to learn about some of these hidden markers of this pervasive disorder. You are the best and a great contributor to the recovery community. Thanks so much.
Wow, my name is Nicole MALKIN!!! I’m studying psychology!!!
I'm a introvert my sister in law drive me crazy because she made her childhood sound perfect I knew it was t
That’s so clearly explained
Thank you.
Thank you 🙏
Hello, I am new to your channel and so much is resonating. I was wondering if you could answer a question I’ve been curious about for the longest time. How can a person tell the difference between a legitimate trigger, or a narcissistic injury? Or are they the same thing? For example, when bringing up a hurt to my friend when I tried to be very conscious of their feelings, but was essentially asking them if they have an issue of race, the first thing they said was “I can’t control how you feel.” Which, I know is technically true, and wasn’t suggesting they could, but was caught off guard by that statement, but continued trying to express I was feeling hurt by them regardless of whether I was right in my perception of what took place. I asked them to help me understand and correct me if I was wrong. They were very resistant (which I know we all can be when being confronted with hurting someone), and they used language like “ l will concede to this one point”... and also said things that left me feeling like they were somehow doing me a favor by listening to me on other topics that drained them in the past. (Never did they say they were draining, or asked me to stop.) We left the conversation seemingly ok, but I have been ruminating ever since. Am I triggered (I have a history of childhood trauma that I am working to heal) or could this be a narcissistic injury on my part? I do know I don’t feel safe speaking to them, which you’ve stated is a sign of covert narcissism, however, I did try to communicate respectfully. Would love your take and any insight you may have. Thanks in advance!!
Alright, I happen to be _ridiculously_ high in narcissism, particularly in the vulnerable variety, but there are plenty of grandiose traits - I feel like a victim, but I try to be effective in a grandiose way. This has been my way of balancing things out for years. I know it isn't healthy, but the alternatives are unthinkable to me.
Mercifully, I've gotten better with the "poor me" mentality the past couple of years, but it still happens whenever things don't go my way. Yes, I know I'm crazy... I can't escape it enough to deny that. I'd say it sucks and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but you all know by now I don't really care about anyone but myself.
If anyone has questions as to what or why though, I'll be glad to fill you in. I'm not so far gone that I'm into the drunken NPD crazy land yet, so here I am willing to explain myself with all of the peer-reviewed research and expert hosted videos I've seen on the topic.
Powerful
Thanks!
Thank you, this describes my husband
My oldest spent his entire life attempting to win his indifferent Dads love..approval and acceptance..his Dad passed away 4 years ago and my son never got his attention..he has since transferred his anger
Feelings of abandonment and rejection onto me..he's blocked me and hasn't spoken to me in almost a year...I believe he feels betrayed by my inability to MAKE his Dad care...everything he says pertains to his Dad and its as if I died too
The more narcissistic the more gaps in their story about their childhood (grandous type).
Thankyou trophy wife explanation noticed this but didn’t understand
Hi Dr Malkin, can you post videos on the differences between borderline personality and intermittent explosive disorder?How about comparing social anxiety and social phobia?Take care and thanks.
Thanks for this video and the explanation of the differences between overt and covert narcissism. You don't seem to use the term "vulnerable narcissism". Is there a reason for that?
My wife is a grandiose narcissist and I am covert narcissist does that happen often these kind of hook ups?
It definitely does. Precisely because anxiously attached and avoidantly attached often pair up and those are the respective underlying styles for the 2 types.
@@CraigMalkin thank you 🙏
Dear Dr. Malkin, The people of Nova Scotia have recently suffered the most extreme psychotic abuse, namely, the worst mass killing in Canadian history. On April 19, 22 of our loveliest people were taken from us. This situation is exacerbated with isolation from covid-19, and we being a rural province with a small population, where services are sometimes more difficult to access. I am asking the best psychologists, licensed therapists, and certified life coaches on UA-cam to collectively participate in the Shout Out to Nova Scotia Campaign. While no one video will be a panacea, if you all could post a video encouraging survivors, and providing them with tips on beginning their healing journey, you could profoundly help many of those in need. With your professional understanding, and experience, towards abuse and trauma recovery, your words and wisdom could go a long way towards helping those with a long, difficult healing journey ahead, to at least take their first steps in the right direction, and also, towards inspiring the confidence necessary for knowing that recovery, while painful, is indeed possible. Thank you so much, in advance, and please use “Shout Out to Nova Scotia” as part of your video title, for best search results, if you choose to participate. Your friend, P.C.
Exactly...all in the superficial appearance
My ex came from that type of family.
I brought loving kindness and compassion to this man yet he abused my generosity kindness and compassion. I never understood this behaviour until recent years.
That man never actually acknowledged the abuse he received from his father an emotional and physically abusive dehumanizing behaviour...
It was all transferred onto me
He lied deceived and acted as if he were the all caring parish priest ever available to all people who needed him...whilst negating and neglecting his family at home...we did not matter to him...the CE priest
We were their for him to tramp on
mine never tried to be a victim, acted likehe had a great childhood, seemed like he worshiped his mother,She made a gorgeous craft book and only dedicated it to him and not her other 2 sons, thought that was very strange? your thoughts?
When oh when will a supposedly qualified and experienced therapist realise that the only thing that causes NPD and differentiates Narcissists from anyone else is that they have NO trust that they are lovable, that they will be loved, that they won't be exploited, abused, neglected or abused and they are therefore ALWAYS on high alert for exploitation, abuse and neglect.
What you look for you will see.
That is NPD in a nutshell
Why do they go out their way to to cause unnecessary drama to feed their soul having no regard for others. There's no benefit having these things in society. These creatures live off from others lives. they don't contribute only consume others happiness and kill it. Miserable lot.
@@warorislam they don't think like us. Their brains are literally short circuited back to their own survival. Thst means not having the emotional space or maturity to tke anyone else into account
We are objects to be used, exploited, discarded and replaced.
They are us as their supply of toilet paper. Toilet paper doesn't have needs, or feelings or emotions.
TheLaura1304
And that is why I have no sympathy for them....
@@FunnyVideoMaker77 good luck with that
When you need attention/love as a child & mom/dad say "Whachu talkin bout Willis?" Then you think you're bad, disagree with self at the core, & keep playing that tape. Then if mom/dad don't love me.. maybe I don't deserve it, but I'm sad, still need love, I hurt, I turn bitter & indifferent to cope.. and I just can't be me, can't be emo me/codependent, inner child startup fail. So I'll be irresponsible to truth of self, then live externally seeking power/love from others to turn their love/milk of human kindness into my ends. You become an echoist to the bitter lies of self hate which you cannot decode correctly for a healthy internal narrative, can't face, and lock that negative baggage away in denial to keep you safe, as you imagine the noble/beautiful false self where by more woundedness in self harm narc paths you become greater in identity, stealing the moon, like Gru in Despicable Me. And then every success at narc agenda's reinforces that massive rut of entitlement to keep playing the fox/narc.
😢
it is also a sign that u were a victim of a narcissistic abuse,that u do not feel like you can trust anyone.no?
I get the silent treatment. I said i couldn't make something now because i was busy and next thing i know he storms out and gives me the silent treatment. I aplologize but he screamed extreme loudly leave me alone and wont speak to me at all. Its frustrating. Why are some people like this?
Burnice,you are too precious 🌹🌹🌷 to be with a narc 🙄!
My ex only talked about how he used to swing from lampshades and climb onto the roof from the balcony. All he ever mentioned about things he had done in childhood. He repeated it 100 times.
Wonderful
The Nerdy Beauty,hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹🌹🌷!
Oscar Williamson thank you very much for the flowers and for the compliment. I have a narcissistic mother who is possibly much more than just a narc. And yes I had a relationship with a narc that was possibly an outcome of the relationship I had with her. At this time I think I am fine but I have lost the trust. Amen.
@@Nat06 So sad to hear your story 😕 my dearest 🌹🌷🌷🌺.I'm Oscar Williamson from the States ❤️.You?
Oscar Williamson thank you, I am Natasha Siniavski I am from Armenia. I live in US now too.
@@Nat06 Wow!😊😊😊😊😊😊,are you on Hangouts or Gmail so we can always talk 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻?
Covert vulnerable narcissists are very hidden.
Mine on his social media after we broke up said something about trophy wives lol. I’m glad I never married the fool. Narcissism is a mental illness, RUN! 🏃♀️
Forever chasing mommy it’s the devil 👿
Mum.
THIS IS HUMANITIESPERSONALITYS AND LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT TYPES AND YOU WILL FINDYOURSELFS I ask that you please DO NOT DENY IT.
Overt narcissism: arrogant. Entitled, overbearing, having an exaggerated self-image, needing to be praised and admired, exploitative, competitive, lacking empathy
Covert narcissism: expressions of low self-esteem, higher likelihood of experiencing anxiety, depression, and shame, introversion, insecurity or low confidence, defensiveness, avoidance, tendency to feel or play the victim
Antagonistic narcissism: arrogance, the tendency to take advantage of others, tendency to compete with others, disagreeability or proneness to arguing
Communal narcissism: become easily morally outraged, describe themselves as empathetic and generous, and react strongly to things they see as unfair
Malignant narcissism: vindictiveness, sadism, or getting enjoyment from the pain of others, aggression when interacting with other people, paranoia, or heightened worry about potential threats
Adaptive narcissism refers to aspects of narcissism that can actually be helpful, like high self-confidence, self-reliance, and the ability to celebrate yourself.
Maladaptive narcissism is connected to traits that don’t serve you and can negatively impact how you relate to yourself and others. For example, entitlement, aggression, and the tendency to exploit others.
People need to stop watching these videos, YOU ARE ME AND I AM YOU.
Some of this uninvited lecture on narcissism is somewhat accurate. Some corrections follow:
Antagonistic narcissism isn't a recognized trait or category because all extreme narcissism is antagonistic
Malignant narcissism isn't technically narcissism at all because it's extreme elevation on all the dark tetrad traits.
Communal narcissists aren't any more likely to become morally outraged than any other narcissism type.Nor are they more prone to seeing things as unfair.
Adaptive narcissism is the heart of all narcissism: self- enhancement. It's healthy narcissism precisely because it's moderate. It's not a distinct type either.
I'm the least pathologizing expert on narcissism on here. I'm not sure why you're suggesting otherwise.
I tend to transactionally date trophies but that has less to do with a need to project anything but rather a need to enjoy my leisure time between my otherwise ambitious days. Transactional dating is also my risk managing strategy for enjoying a social life without utterly losing my goal driven self in the needs of another, invariably demanding person. It balances my social persona with the sort of space I need to deliberately live a goal oriented life which gives me all the excitement and fulfilment I need.
Yes but, it's just a demon/demonic