The One Sign of Pathological Narcissism You've Never Heard Before
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- The One Sign of Pathological Narcissism You've Never Heard Before
Narcissism seems to be born of neglect and abuse, both of which are notorious for creating an insecure attachment style (for more on attachment, see here www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl... and here www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl....
But the very fact that narcissists, for all their posturing, are deeply insecure, also gives us an easy way to spot them. Insecurely attached people can't talk coherently about their family and childhood; their early memories are confused, contradictory, and riddled with gaps. Narcissists often give themselves away precisely because their childhood story makes no sense, and the most common myth they carry around is the perfect family story. If your date sings their praises for their exalted family but the reasons for their panegyric seem vague or discursive, look out. The devil is in the details, as they say -- and very likely, that's why you're not hearing them.
Production notes ;-): I'm living in temporary housing with my family while we get things fixed up after black mold/renovations, and it's been challenging for lots of reasons to make videos (the fact that quiet moments have become exceedingly rare might top the list). I shot this one a few months ago but struggled to find a surface where I wasn't looking down at my laptop. There aren't many convenient well lit places to set up. I wasn't happy with the angle but I've never found time since to reshoot, so here you go. I also experimented with just using Bluetooth mic since, despite the fact that I've always used a studio mic (samsung) I get occasional complaints about the audio level. Let's see if this is better.
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I don’t agree with this... my ex was for sure a narcissist and he complained about how awful his childhood was to me often. How unfair it was blah blah blah, his brothers didn’t experience quite the same because his mother focused on him. So they saw it differently but a narcissist will lie or tell you whatever will make you believe them the most, so...
Shera Lilly j forgot to mention this pattern in the video: competitive race for the worst childhood, which is still about feeling (negatively) special.
Ps-I knew I forgot something in This video. What you’re describing-“no one had as bad a childhood as I did”-is simply negative self enhancement. It invites neither compassion nor closeness and it’s usually angry. It’s more about feeling exceptional for suffering more than others than sharing genuine pain. It’s *emotionality* vs emotion.
Dr. Craig Malkin yes! Totally him. His mom was harsh (I struggled with her as my mother in law , she’s a narcissist as well) but he made it sound like he had no fun and all work but his brothers said that was not true.
Shera Lilly thanks for reminding me!
That's a good point to make also, what ever is most convenient and then we didn't even take into account the possible difference between how a Narcissist vs a 'Covert' Narcissist would react
If someone tells you they had a "perfect childhood," that's your cue to run for the hills.
I know two people that that correlates with. Noted.
My husband has told me this. Yikes.
@@desert_moon Wow, not a peaceful, happy childhood, but....a perfect childhood.
What a silly statements
good childhood
= not aware of bad
= golden child
= spoiled
= Narcissist
Covert narcissist will always play victim and tell childhood stories of how they were abandoned, punished, abused etc
And they are wrong for being abused???
@@martawilder6136 In my experience, it's the person who tells you their childhood was "perfect" that we never see coming.
@@user-uo7wg5br8n If someone tells you their childhood was perfect, you better RUN. That's the kind of shit serial killers tell behavior profilers.
It's more like they were emotionally neglected and had to squash who they truly were.
Their family only pays attention to them when they "perform" well, which makes their narcissistic parents appear to others to be great parents.
@@le_th_ Yes. Run for the hills.
my ex wife could never really recount anything from her childhood. i recall thinking then; how impossible that could be. and yet i overlooked it. narcs don’t look back at anything. its why they sleep so well.
True narcs actually seem to have trouble sleeping. They don’t sleep and want to disturb your sleep as well. That’s a real Narc for you.
This just happened - someone who began displaying narcissitic behavior recalling the perfect childhood but later brought up abuse by every family member during childhood!! And a hired caregiver. Cognitive dissonance?
I was afraid to trust his accounts of anything later on, because they were good one day, bad the next - and soon, so was the way he characterized me!
Maybe PTSD?
Sounds like black and white thinking. Everyone is either all good or all bad...
This makes sense with my parents. Neither of them has ever been able to give a reliable recounting of their upbringing. The story always changes.
Memory gaps can also be due to trauma which, if parental, can result in an attachment disorder.
Wombat1420 yes -they’re always due to trauma. As I explain here, the gaps, alone, are not an indicator of extreme narcissism. Gaps are common with attachment insecurity. It’s about how the gaps are filled.
One narcissist I know told a story of how his father force fed him Brussels sprouts as he was screaming and crying. His brother, who was there, actually brought it up. I got the feeling that his father was most likely a narcissist and that he was the scapegoat child while his brother was the golden boy. Really creeped me out.
Yea they always try and embarrass & shame the scapegoat putting them on the spot.
I still think Malignant Narcissism has an element of choice. Because they've learned, or have been taught, that it works for them, so there is no motivation to change. Many people have had more difficult experiences and did not become that way.
Yes that is true. My narc brother idolizes our parents and our childhood. He said it was the greatest ever. My parents have some good qualities, but they were very flawed. I spent my childhood listening to them always scream and fight. There was physical abuse too. He "forgets" all of that.
I was an overt Narcissist. I wasn't pretending to be happy. I actually felt happy and accomplished in debates. I was and still am more informed than everyone.
about almost everything of objective importance.
what I didn't understand or value.. was love and kindness.
(the most important thing, basically)
I was indirectly taught that love must be earned (by my covert narc dad, Emotionally absent dismissive attachment)
and that love is giving away things you like, and obsessively serving others until you hurt.. (by my co depentant aggressivly helpful guilt-tripping mom. who also has some narc traits)
I thought kindness was lying.
I hated lying... because when I was in 2nd grade I saw a naked girl.
4th grade she fell on me and I liked it.. so I touched her butt.
I realized it was wrong. but kept doing it. for years before I stopped. thought I was evil. and couldn't tell anyone. afraid to go to jail and be disowned.
since I had to lie about who I was... and I hated lying.. I was super honest about my emotions... whatever I felt I expressed. didn't want to pretend I was good.. when I knew I wasn't.
didn't realize kindness was a choice, even when you don't feel like it.
anyways.. I fell away from God because of my hypocrisy.
didn't believe I could worship God and be a monster like I was...
I forgave myself and trusted that God forgave me. but basically tried to stop dudes from touching chicks in 7th 8th grade.. and got bullied. to the point I became a brutal person myself. fake.. charismatic. class clown. bully to jerks. selfish.
...
many times I had opportunities to change. but I was obesssd with the brutal truth of politics, sociology, history,... and no one could compete with me in a debate. no one knows anything...
saying "hey be nice" isn't much incentive.. when that's the same phrase a 4 year old can say... and I have decades of scientific evidence backing up my argument.. and my opposition says.. calm down man.
so yeah. never could relate to people.. cause I grew up too fast, was damaged.. then learned too much too young.. and had no boundries . and couldn't understand my own feelings or thoughts.
I dont have an identity... except in what I can do.
God gave me a second chance.
but I failed him.
now I see clearly, but I'm doomed.
so it's the only time a narc could give a clear picture of what it was like.
Interesting! Both narcs in my life had THE MOST PERFECT CHILDHOOD. I would take one look at their parents and think, "Yeah, that does not equate."
Thank you so much for sharing this! Two of the most covert types I have encountered followed this pattern exactly. One claims to have had the perfect childhood, idealizes his “kind” mother when everything points to her being the victim type who reacted with upset when someone didn’t accept the help she was offering. He seems to fear the father he reveres so much, still afraid of being “scolded” at the age of 50. Another claims his children revere and adore him yet it’s clear that his kids want nothing to do with him. It’s so important to help people understand that this is a clear sign we’re often fooled by. In my opinion, the most pathological cannot stomach anyone thinking that something was wrong or off or not positive or idyllic in some way. That “too good” attitude is a very scary red flag. Please continue to expand more on this when you can.
Omg ! This is my husband that I believe is a covert narcissist, he only takes about few happy events in his childhood and claims he doesn’t remember anything else hence abuse
Profoundly spot on for the narcs in my life. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Great to see a new video on something I have never heard about before so succinctly put. Thank you very much and welcome back!
Yes, yes, yes! This was an observation I had through an experience and it baffled me at the time. I just received confirmation and understanding through this video. Thank you.
I totally agree, this was my experience with my ex ( finally and fortunately) husband. Including obviously lying and steeling and, most of all, gaslighting and calling me the “crazy” one.
Welcome back!
My experience after a more than 30 year relationship makes me totally agree with this insight. . My ex's narrative of his childhood was totally a fantasy that he put together to cover the reality of his experience. Throughout our many years of marriage I came to see the truth and so did he. I think this was one of the reasons he finished our relationship. I knew the truth and was a witness of the "real" childhood he had. Unfortunately Narcs need to be surrounded by people that share their pseudo reality. Midlife crisis , fear and aging make them hide in their fantasies and desperately need to keep control of them. They lack the emotional strength to face their less than perfect childhood experiences and prefer to keep them idealized.
First, I would like to thank you for your illuminating book. I was recommended it by a therapist and it has helped me understand my mother a lot better. There are reasons people are the way they and knowing those reasons can sometimes make it easier to understand why the empathy triggers you suggest using actually work in mitigating a narcissist's impact.
Secondly, I would like to thank you for helping me understand why I am the way I am. I've struggled with social issues for many years. I suspect my therapist had an underlying motive for prescribing the book to me and that is self-illumination. In many cases, the light-bulb went off in my head while I was reading and it wasn't pleasant. Nobody wants to admit they act this way and the horror I felt at being honest with myself is something I will always remember.
I have taken to using a notebook to document my day and when I do any of those things you mentioned as a warning sign in chapter 7. It's difficult and sometimes I don't trust I see things clearly, so I've enlisted the help of my wife to help me point things out and this is helping tremendously, however I also realize I need to be vigilant as some of these things don't come easily.
I just felt people needed to realize this book is not only on how to recognize signs in others, but to recognize signs in yourself.
Thanks again.
That's so true in my case.
I personally had a childhood riddled with great ups and great downs. And I almost remember much of it especially from the age of 5.
And when I met this person, I was in a very introspective place. Taking stock of my life and how the tiny little factors mad e me to be who I am.
And I shared, every detail.
Then her response was, "well there's nothing much to say about my childhood, it was perfect. My parents had the perfect parenting method."
I fact the only things she told me about her childhood were,
The above,
That her dad was a seaman and would take them to the sea and also to Scandinavia,
That her grandmother through some type of negligence was the cause of her having a very serious case of bronchitis.
In the contrary, when she would speak of her mother, she would say,
"She was the meanest most controlling person she's ever known and for years, her and her siblings decided to effectively go no contact with her."
Also a big definer of their family was that, the dad divorced the mum as they were moderately young.
This gave me doubts about her childhood. The mum sounded like what at that time I'd describe as highly toxic. And it seemed obvious to me that her dad left her mum for this reason. And rationally thinking, I had a sense that there must have been an impact on the 2 children of the family.
Let me tell you, only in our very first meetings, I started to see that she conducted herself exactly how her mother did. Until finally after several months did I discover what
High level malignant Narcissm disorder is.
I could tell that this person was soo psychologically damaged that it seemed to me that there was probably a physical damage to the brain.
Then one time after an extraction of and a severe feeding by her of my pain and dispair. Where by I made some indubitable facts about what was happening, she said in heart wrenching sobs,
"I know you can see it and I can see it too, I am exactly just my mother."
Last paragraph. Yep!
Thank you for this insight ☀️
Interesting as u find u can't trust everyone the more u say the worse it gets. I had issues thanks tp my dad I did my very best
Thank you for this video, Dr. Malkin. You explain things so well. Learning from you has really helped in my recovery! Keep up the great work :)
My narcissistic husband does have huge gaps in his childhood memories, but he doesn't fill them in, he he just claims that he doesn't remember.
That can happen, too. Less obvious, but there are other patterns that emerge, like contradictory descriptions of parents/family members, (often including unlikely virtues). Or competitive tales for worst childhood, as if the one who suffered most "wins."
@@CraigMalkin Does not remembering your childhood (or claiming not to) still indicate attachment insecurity? I've always felt he didn't really trust me even though I never gave him any reason not to. Does it have anything to do with them not being trustworthy themselves and then projecting that onto others?
So for the first two decades he readily owned a difficult childhood with a handful of illustrative stories, although no memories before seven. His mother and siblings spoke often and freely of the [highly narcissistic] behaviours of their father. The last decade and a half he became more and more obdurate and insistent he had had a happy childhood, he was loved. He also became far more angry and oppositional, more split, progressively, with time, but this did correspond with my decreasing empathy at displays of emotionality, my growing insistence that he speak the truth, and my certainty that I was right and he wrong [gaslighting no longer worked]. Towards the end it got really really bad. I was still operating under the narrative of a good man struggling with a bad childhood, not a liar who manipulated and, when caught out, brimmed with self-pity. I was totally confused and horrified.
Terms: "Attachment security". " Secure attachment". "Effective dependancy". "Insecurely attached".Idyllic childhood narrative however upon closer examination there's BIG gaps & inconsistencies. Hope I got this right. Especially the quotes..
You nailed it! All narcissists I know have this attachment insecurity from a very tender age.
Interesting observation! My whole extended family are very fragmented and as a kid I didn't understand why there were like four quasi-lineages in a single family. When I grew up I learned to identify covert narcissism and before long I realised that descriptor fits many, many members. What you describe here has actually been somewhat of a missing piece of the puzzle because nobody ever openly spoke about being abused within the family, and major details were missing out as to why they were so split up.
DR, that was helpful, although I still have questions and self guilt because my narc bf told me about he's childhood and how he was neglected. He told me how he is criticizing people, he lies, discriminate and arrogant. He even said that the more he tries to change the more he gets worse
That's true. I've never come across this piece before though.I used to know 2 siblings-a narc brother and a not narc sister. Their family life wasn't pathological but chaotic and stressful for many years due to a several illness of the mother.I've just realised how little the sister said about all those years whereas the brother kept bringing back quite funny and carefree memories not mentioning anything painful which must have occurred there.
Welcome back Dr Malkin!
I can see where this would be true for many highly narcissistic individuals as part of denial/repression as well as image maintenance.
My undoubtedly malignant ex did have relationship with his parents and only sibling ... but they were all "off". They were all extremely friendly and even nice ... but they all talked only about themselves. Having a meal with them was like toddlers having parallel play time where everyone does his/ her own thing while together in the same place. They were all close , however, just on a very superficial level. Also, the father critisized EVERYTHING his boys did growing up and the mother was lost in her own world of 1960s housewife drinking for the "nerves". An abusive and dangerous recipe for parenting.
Thank u Doctor, for the update.
Nice explained
Thank you so much Doctor !
Yeah, that is something I noticed too. Every person who I think has npd, is like that when talking about their childhood. It is always oddly obscure, too.
Yes I agree thank you ,my narc bf start his addiction at age 15 now he is 52 at age 17 he lost his father every time when he dose something awful and doing something wrong and going to extreme with his addiction or other his crazy behaviors he always play a victim roll and bring the same scenario from his childhood that he was only 17 that he lost his father and had a responsibility for all his family and blah blah blah always the same scenario but his sister said that he was a golden child 🤨
And I have find out at age 20 he was married with his ex wife and she already was married at that time with 4 kids and 17 years older than him 😡 he force her to get divorce and marry him .one night he goes to her house with 2 big knife front of her children and her husband kidnap her and after many dramas married with poor woman 🤦♀️she was married with a wealthy man and my bf was in a extreme heroin addiction that’s why he just looking for a wealthy woman for a Money . Basically he newer can hold a job that’s why he always looking for a older woman to seduce them and love bombing them to marry and get fuel from them 🤯sadly after 3 years relationship with this crazy bastard I have found I’m dealing with a narcissist man who Is very dangerous .but no body can catch his real face as long as living with him in the same house :I think I’m the only woman that outsmart him 🤪thank UA-cam and all people who inform us with narcissist traits and behaviors 🙏
I’m in the discard place now and try to live him with no drama cause we still live in the same house😢 please pray for me any advice would help me thank you again🌺
They can remember the most inconsequential aspect of something way in the past that is about them eg an item of clothing they used to wear 20 years ago, but not remember anything about an event that would be indelibly etched in others minds eg. the death of a parent .
100% true!! thank you
My extremely narcissistic ex wife really never spoke about her earlier childhood, although she was always quick to mention (often) what she considered to be “wrongs” by her parents and how traumatic they were. We got married and she was quick to mention “wrongs” that I had done to her. :/
This sounds very much like my ex husband. Wow! He was a nightmare.
You know I'm a little done with all the 'experts' and the things they lie to pathological narcissism, Like depression, Now it turns out depressed people are actually just narcissists, I don't buy that and maybe the person just had a traumatic past and that's why they repressed their childhood but if they're not actually harmful to anyone that doesn't make them a toxic person by definition in my book
People with depression don't show this pattern. And depressed people usually *fail* to self-enhance in ways I've described here (while narcissists are prone to it).
@@CraigMalkin That makes sense, it does but when a person is very depressed or anxious, their hps axis/ amygdala can become disregulated meaning they are on edge so maybe it depends on when you encounter the person, I've seen this happen with myself. I'm a generally kind person but I can be in a dark mood or upset or hurt by peoples rude behavior and act hostile in return even tho I hate it .. and what I really hate is being forced into that negative exchange when what I really want is normalcy and mutual respect, It just pushes my buttons all over the place. In my case I've been ill and hospitalized to then find out that's all it took for aquintances to drop me like flies, There's never been any hostility, They just decided to ignore from one day to the next. Things like that hurt, rejection hurts especially around this time of year. But to get back to your point, If what you say is true, Then maybe it would be useful to address that distinction between a depressed person and a narcissist who happens to suffer from depression and what the difference is, or any other commonality. I've even heard one 'expert' say Narcissists are unable to hold down a job, but they share the view as if this means all unemployed people are pathological narcissists .. I don't think so but it does make people feel that way, If there is a distinction we should make it , is my point because these labels can be upsetting, Who wants to be a narcissist after all ? And to put that in perspective, I've been so wired at one point that I honestly thought my parents were narcissists and felt victimized, looking for an explanation for my fragile state of being, but before that, when I was younger I used to think I had a perfect childhood myself ( I was in denial) Right now I can see how my parents behavior messed me up in quite a few ways but I am grateful for them and all they have done for me and I know they will be there for me as long as they are around for wich I feel very grateful, not many people can say the same at my age. So these perspectives change depending on what point in my life you would ask me that question but if you had asked me in my twenties you would have diagnosed me a pathological narcissist based on this video .. But I don't think that would be a fair assessment, at all, If you follow me. People have all kinds of reaction based responses that change over time, Like you said, They improve or maybe they are in a down slope, It's a relative thing and I think it's important to put it in perspective and not generalize people into the cathegory of pathological narcissism, because they are depressed, jobless, addicted, or in denial about their parents, Maybe I'm wrong! I am open to learning and very sorry for this long rant
守lower absolutely true. I would never suggest generalizing, and I believe anyone who wants to can change. Such an important point to make!
@@CraigMalkin Thank you! Very nice of you Unfortunately I've been told the genuine article can't change , But then again that was by Sam Vaknin who is a self proclaimed narcissist himself >< It gets confusing and that's why I'd like to see both sides of the coin addressed
@@flauwegeit I help people with NPD--and successfully according to partners of those who stick with it--so consider this the other side of the coin :-)
Happy to see your new video update, thank you for sharing.
My pleasure :-)
Makes total sense! You've just described my sister who is delusional and a HC Narc!
Thank you sir for this missing puzzle piece. His "perfect" childhood is what never made sense to me with all the holes in it or lack of information. It just didn't add up. It was another area for him to use against me to make it look like I'm the messed up one.....😂
Big Thumbs Up!
Good to see you back online again here on UA-cam! Are you opposed to us submitting a few ideas for future episodes?
I get what your saying. My ex cn used to talk about the great times he would have going out of town with his grandfather for business. How at 10 years old he had the run of the hotel. His grandfather had a mistress for decades out of town.
He said his father became an alcoholic when he was forced into retirement and then was involved in a bad accident. His mother told me his father was an alcoholic when she met him. Also, he got in a huge fight with his dad when he was 17 and got kicked out. Same with his older brother. A lot of questions.
The Two I have met did share some truths I imagine 1. Shared Neglectful childhood, abusive father, post USSR Ukrainian life the acquisition of material wealth mixed with performance for attention, alcoholism 2. Shared his fathers death at 6, rape by half brother ( he was silent), and his mother telling him the mother of his children was not good enough for him … 3. These two both were obsessed with public image and becoming ever richer, both are wealthy and have a perfect public image, I do not know how it plays out in their marriages, with their children and in social circles. But one reason I think these people never seek help is because everyone keeps excusing and enabling them. Having NPD does not have to be hopeless ( because it is so destructive it should be addressed at every level) and NPD should be able to also do some transformative work. #stayhuman
Overt narcissism: arrogant. Entitled, overbearing, having an exaggerated self-image, needing to be praised and admired, exploitative, competitive, lacking empathy
Covert narcissism: expressions of low self-esteem, higher likelihood of experiencing anxiety, depression, and shame, introversion, insecurity or low confidence, defensiveness, avoidance, tendency to feel or play the victim
Antagonistic narcissism: arrogance, the tendency to take advantage of others, tendency to compete with others, disagreeability or proneness to arguing
Communal narcissism: become easily morally outraged, describe themselves as empathetic and generous, and react strongly to things they see as unfair
Malignant narcissism: vindictiveness, sadism, or getting enjoyment from the pain of others, aggression when interacting with other people, paranoia, or heightened worry about potential threats
Adaptive narcissism refers to aspects of narcissism that can actually be helpful, like high self-confidence, self-reliance, and the ability to celebrate yourself.
Maladaptive narcissism is connected to traits that don’t serve you and can negatively impact how you relate to yourself and others. For example, entitlement, aggression, and the tendency to take advantage of others.
If you're a doctor shouldn't you be busy with taking care of people's health instead of doing UA-cam videos on cutting down YOU, ME, and all of HUMANITY.
Yup!!! It rings very true!!!
Narcissists only see black and white. It's either all good or all bad. My childhood wasn't great but at the time it was what i thought was normal however i can remember good times and bad times with both parents and my brother.
Absolutely Dr Craig Malkin
It’s definitely a learned behavior how I was not affected I thank God oldest
And held
The fort down at home ❤❤❤
Absolutely spot on. But the whole family, specifically his mother supports the illusion of the "wonderful mother", the "wonderful family" the "wonderful childhood". The history and facts do not align. Broken marriages, enstranged siblings, abandoned children, emotional incest, dysfunctional boundaries. Its as though the whole family have created a story that they all buy into? Or does the story start with the mother and get passed down through generations. And no one in the family ever questions the fact that the facts don't align with the story.?
Can you please do a video on 'Narcissist inferiority complex' ie how it presents as 'delusions of grandeur' self-agrandisement etc etc etc?
Dr. Malkin - I'm currently a grad student in counseling. For reasons I'd rather not disclose on social media thread, this topic is of particular interest to me. I'm wondering, since you do treat NPD - how long does that type of treatment take before one can start to change and heal the attachment deficits? I'm guessing it is years?
And if there's a couple where one is NPD, how does marriage therapy even work or get started, since those with NPD don't take responsibility and have little to no self-awareness.
Thanks for your videos, by the way - they are great and have helped me learn a lot.
That's just denial and can indicate many psychological illnesses, not only narcissism.
They'll tell the story and it'll sound so awful but at the same time they will leave out any of their own involvement or responsibility. And of course all these things they mention we're done to them
The narrcistists I've dealt with in my life are secretive..resentful and mean-spirited..the only thing I asked of him was that he love me and treat me kindly....after I divorced him people who knew his parents came forward to tell me horror stories about their raging alcoholism..his mother's mental illness and how cruel born parents were..I was blindsided .
I NEVER really knew him.
I was married to him 21 years and he remained a stranger..
Come to CT! I need a session.... literally just ended my relationship ten minutes ago and blocked them Bc I just realize how manipulative and how much I was being gas lighted . I’m in shock and confused and don’t even know what to think or where to start to heal .
The Narcissist State
Hope your healing is going well.
Know that everything that was said about you, and about them, was the complete opposite.
Know that there was something in you that they absolutely admired, then coveted, then envied and they were then all out jealous about that they quite frankly hated themselves for not having. That their supposed stamping it out in you, is how hard they subconsciously are stamping it out in themselves.
I find it an interesting point now that I hear this. The ex-narcissist in my life a few years ago never said anything about childhood at all. As such, does that reflect on attachment insecurity in any way?
If you all were in a real relationship and childhood never came up there is a good chance that it is definitely representative of something.
What I have seen also is in a pathological covert narcissist is an exaggerated poor me feel bad for me the type that in all their relationships they have ever taken part of, in their mind of only self they just sat there like an innocent angel. The everyone always does me wrong feel sorry for me baby me cause I stopped growing in maturity usually cause of lack of taking responsibility for their actions also ppl who love them not understanding how love should be correctly implemented cause so many don’t do so. Even worse from what I know see is society, religions, ppls families shame ppl when they do implement it correctly with things like “how could you not let them do this or that to him if you “really” loved them” when it’s the outcome of their bad choices! I have been guilty of this so much even when seeing it in other thinking wow they make excuses no matter what their loved one does 😂 as you grow on the inside you are looking in their to straighten out that mess!
After 27 year Marriage ended in Divorce I have begun to find that there were all sorts of symptoms including this idyllic inconsistent childhood. It bothered me but she couldn't tell me about it.
They change up one min perfect childhood and next they has worst 🙌🙏🙌🙏🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️♌️♌️♌️
Obviously I know you can’t come to CT especially w the corona virus. I’m just kind of desperate for understanding . Do you do Skype sessions ?
Hey... What do you think about someone that claims to not remember their childhood but they get easily triggered when I talk about mine?
Dr. Mallon I love and appreciate your videos. Could you please raise the camera so you are not looking down to viewers, it’s disconcerting.
Thank you.
He has written in the narrative under the video explaining there were home repairs and it was difficult to find a good place to film from.
Thanks for posting this video. My husband just left me for a former girlfriend with no warning and no remorse. He was always loving and kind to me. I did feel at times that he was taking me for granted and/or not listening. My therapist is helping me see the signs of his narcissistic behavior retrospectively. The childhood piece is very helpful for the future. My estranged husband says he had a great childhood and his Dad was great but rarely gave any specifics. He also idolized his father and was devastated when he died. Is there any more insight you can give me about this relationship. I considered him my best friend and the love of my life so his infidelity and request for a divorce came as a complete shock and a devastating blow to my self-esteem. What else should I look for in future relationships?
Hey there. I don't have good answers, I just saw this post was made almost a year ago. I hope things have gotten better for you.
Hey the good thing is at least you were fortunate enough to find or encounter a therapist that actually understands narcissism yet but is not a narcissist themselves. That in itself is a feather in your cap. How are things now?
So a narcissist can’t win, if they say they had a happy childhood they’re telling lies, if they say they had a miserable one then they are also telling lies.
That’s not what I say in the video no.
good childhood means they are not aware of their problem.
bad childhood means they are aware ... but aren't taking responsibility to get help.
My ex wife has many plausible excuses why her her entire extended family, aunt's, uncles and cousins on both sides of her parents families are partially or fully estranged from her family. One of her favourite excuses was that they are jealous and bitter about her happy close knit family. I believed her explanations for 20 years. Then one day after our split, an uncle rang me to explain they are nuts, total ass holes, and to run for the hills and not look back. Then a while after that an auntie rang and said the same thing, told me to get a good lawyer and good luck. Then I started to remember all the excuses about the extended family, so I got a piece of paper and a pen and wrote down a list of estranged or just baffled and angry and frustrated family members. There was not one family member who wasn't on that list. One uncle described my exes family home as a mental asylum. Her mother is 100% NPD, her dad is 100% codependent enabler slave, and the daughter "my ex" is 100% NPD gaslighting gold medalist.
The camera angle is a big distraction. Feels like you’re standing over me and I must look up. Uncomfortable. Your videos are so helpful..... thank you.
Joni Dietrich I know. See the production notes ;-) It was either that or no video at all. I chose a video :-)
Some narcs do pretend to be happy and have the perfect life. They are the overt narcs.
true narcs stay up late, but have zero trouble sleeping. some can fall asleep in a crowd.
insomnia is an empaths reaction to narcs. not the othet way around.
I never talked about my childhood. I don't know anyone that would want to hear about it..
And I don't want to hear about anyone else.
I know another disordered person who seems sociopathic or like a covert/vulnerable narcissist or borderline - she says she has blocked out her childhood entirely because it was so traumatic (except for food memories like special occasions or trips). But not much detail about how or why? It's hard to figure out.
Full repression is common with complex ptsd stemming from childhood abuse :-(
@@CraigMalkin Wow! I had no idea that was related to C-PTSD!! This makes complete sense. Thank you for this info!! She is the American born daughter of Holocaust survivors who were very traumatized, lost half their families, argued constantly, and soon divorced.
Attachment insecurity.. is this exclusively with others or a derivative of disownership of their own emotional pain, in refusal of mercy & empathy. They are not connected with True Self, are bitter,wounded, then indifferent, and cold. The veritable failure of mother's love in childhood type thing. Or how about an over sized super ego full of self hate rendering them unable to be attached to their own Good Ego and self esteem? So that then they don't feel like they're worthy of love or investment in self. And then they self sabotage in approach avoidance with anybody they're in a relationship with, making them lose hope that it can work out, & so that feeds their pushing ppl away in more collapse into self pity & in self destruction fulfilling their attachment insecurity more?
or an I'm sick, sad, I'm bad, feeling sorry for themselves at the core and then unworthy of love so if someone loves me there must be something wrong with them and I subject them to my super ego.
I wonder if there might be another way to identify extreme narcissism, based onCarol Dweck's concept of the growth mindset (vs. fixed mindset).
Could it be that extreme narcissism contradicts a growth mindset?
I wonder, if there is a growth mindset there cannot be extreme narcissism, and the other way around?
My idea is a bit speculative, but I just love to think about it.
If being special is something static people have or not, I assume that someone might be willing to defend his feeling of being special.
But if feeling special is a result of growth, there is no need to defend the feeling of being special. Because, feeling of being special is a result of growth. It goes away, it could come back again. If there is no danger to completely lose feeling of being special, there might not be a need to defend it.
This is fascinating thanks!
huh … glad you like the idea
please, be careful. I cannot find papers supporting this idea.
How about those who won't talk about their childhood? Where everything is a big secret?
The N I know celebrates my success only to find reasons to encourage me to try a little harder or createsa reason why he has to change our location. Which means he can’t be happy where we live.
I don't agree, my monster thrived on telling people her woe is me stories in order to garner sympathy so that she could then take advantage of them. Narcissists come in all flavors just as they all have different personalities but their end game is the same. I'm a childhood survivor of one.
Can't be referring to all narcissistic types such as those who were born shortly after WWII in Germany, taken from their mother by a father who remarried someone who fed her own child preferred nutritious foods and let her stepchildren go hungry? Are you saying that a narcissistic person would not share this?
Does this mean that someone who describes a poor childhood cannot be a narcissist?
Not at all, no. It all depends on how it's expressed. See the pinned comment. I add clarification about this.
Dr. Craig Malkin thanks. Your conversation with Shera has clarified the point. My VN was forever emphasising how her “needs” weren’t met by her (admittedly difficult) mother.
I was with you until you said that they have stories about a grandiose childhood. Many narcissists don't. A lot of them play the victim card to make empaths want to help them. My ex's stories didn't align, as many were lies, but they all painted him as a victim. I did meet his family members, and he did give specific examples of the abuse, whether or not they were true. So I would not use the information this video as a barometer for whether or not someone is narcissistic.
Some of the comments seem to point out how this does not always hold true for all types of narcissists and I have seen examples of what you are talking about and of a narcissist who would label himself as the black sheep of the family blaming them and others for his situation in life when it was clear he made really bad choices that landed him in jail. But I have talked to another person with borderline and narcissism and she claimed her childhood was fine and without problems. All the while it was clear she had an eating disorder and something was off with her relationship with her father and possibly other family members. She only talked about symptoms of her disorder without ever talking about it directly. She also tended to be vague which I did not know at the time was a red flag. Anyway, I hope she is okay and managed to find a way to deal with her disorder in a healthy way but I do worry. What you talked about does apply in some instances but not always. Even so it's a good thing to look out for especially if there are other telltale signs of something off.
Click Here For A Free Potato yes I addressed that in my reply to those comments. The key is how much emphasis-rigid reflexive un wavering- is placed on the idealized childhood. People with BPD don’t show this pattern (unless they’re also narcissistic). Introverted or covert presentation, which I’ll Elaborate on next video, is something I explain in my reply as well-see pinned comment and my reply
I wonder if this is the reason Prince Harry didn’t get to meet his father in law ? He also caused a stir when he said that the RF would be the family Megan never had ! Made me wonder what she had made her family out to be like to Harry as she had been filmed praising her father in the past for the support he had given her !
Yea nothing was wrong with his step mom or father. He’s mom had schizophrenia and hadn’t seen her since he was little but nothing bad. Now I know.😮
Yes but WHY do the stories not make sense, what are they trying to hide?
vulnerability, usually
But what happened to them eyebrows though... lol!
Trauma can cause people to forget due to hormones in the brain during severe stress. Biology 101. M arr
Trauma doesn’t cause people to fill in the gaps with grandiose stories.
Yup. Mom's childhood was fabulous....but her mother had a partial lobotomy and the family lost everything through bankruptcy
I'm curious...is this "insecure attachment style" the reason why you can never do enough, say enough or be enough for them? Why they are never satisfied/insatiable? I guess I should read the article 🙄
Nevermind. It is. I just read the attached article ; ) Thank you Dr. M!
So, a person with 'insecure attachment style' is, by definition, pathologically narcissistic? Wow!
Definitely not true, no. But all people with NPD are insecurely attached.
@@CraigMalkin So, the relationship of people who have 'insecure attachment' (e.g., Will Hunting) to narcissism must be pretty complex?
@@CraigMalkin So, NPD is a sub-class of insecure attachment?
@@stephenhogg6154 Respectfully listen to the video again. That is not what the good Dr said.
@@freshair9315 So NPD is not a sub-class of insecure attachment? I know he didn’t say it is, but I thought it an interesting notion. What I’m really trying to do here is explore this relationship.