Suzuki M109R / VZR1800 Transmission Damage Assessment and Technical Inspection
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2019
- A followup to what happened to the M109 that we dropped the engine out of.
The Suzuki M109R has a pretty well known transmission problem with the shift forks causing 2nd gear to slip out, and then back into gear. Sometimes making the bike lurch forward like the rider has pulled in the clutch and released it. Many owners have documented on associated forums about this problem and this bike definitely had it.
Like some others have also experienced, the rider might notice the bike coming out of second gear more in right hand turns coming on the throttle.
Here's a closer look inside of an M109R at the actual damage that is related to the symptoms of this known issue.
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Great video! You helped me decide not to buy a m109r, especially a used one. Vmax second generation, here I come!
I’ve had my 109 since 2006, I believe it’s the first year they came out. Have 50000 miles on it, no transmission issues at all. Had the clutch cable snap on me about 6 ears ago but that’s it.
But did you beat the living shit out of it for 50 thousand miles? Or nurse it like a sick child?
You have certainly been one of he lucky ones.
Thank you for the information I really appreciate it!
My pleasure!
Love your videos..I was wondering if you could do a video one the starter and starter relay?
At the 1:00 min mark you have a nice close up of one of the retainer snap rings (or C-clip rings). How critical are they...I snapped one of them (found it during my oil change at the bottom of the pan in 2 pieces). Can the gear box go on living without 1 or do I absolutely have to have it in place?
Rule of thumb.... If they engineered it to have a tiny snap ring to hold something in place then it need to be there.
Top man, cheers
👍👍
when I start the my 2012 model m109r, the sound of rattling sound comes from the side of the clutch and as soon as you press the clutch lever, the sound stops what is the problem of the thing please help me
Eres una maquina 👍🏻
Jajaja! Muchas gracias... 👍👍
Moto Medic this is a great video and provides needed insight. Do you know if the M90 have the same transmission issue?
I also appreciate that you've provide answers to most of the questions that are asked.
Thanks for the comment! I'm pretty sure that the M90 has zero issues like this. It's a completely different transmission.
It is sad that engineers did not learn a thing from the z1900 second gear shifting fork issues. If they only kept track and engineered around initial mistakes learning from history..but, history repeats itself because the new crop of engineers are smarter..lol.
Hey, thanks for the video. I just purchased an 06 M109r and unfortunately, this is my issue. I was quoted $2900 just to tear the motor down and diagnose the issue. I’m trying to find a shop for a second opinion but haven’t found one yet. Any idea what I should expect to pay for this repair, ballpark? I’m not dropping out of second (yet). But I think it’s coming. Right now, it just surges through acceleration, hard to shift into second from 1st.
So sorry for the delay in responding! I don't see all comments when they happen apparently!
What I was providing for my customers was this... A full tear down of any engine (with engine out of the bike) was a flat rate $200. That gets me inside and able to see what the damage is and if it can be repaired. It's a few hours to tear into. Fair charge.
If it could be repaired I'd cost it out and let me customer know the costs. At that point they can either give the go ahead or say no and get a bin or two full of what was once their engine 😊
What was the total cost
Hey,good for you bud,its astounding that a big outfit like Suzuki dodge this issue?!!
If it were on a more popular bike you can bet that they would have addressed the issue really fast. Truth is... this bike is maybe 1% of their sales and doesn't make sense to do a full on recall of the entire line of all model years. Considering the work to repair it, it would be dumb for them to even consider.
Nice
Hey I had a question where you located and I want to ask you how much does that cause to do that fix the gears on a M109R I have one
I'm located in North Idaho, but don't currently have a shop. That's in the works but I'm not wrenching on much right now. This job was right around the $2000 mark with labor and parts. 12 hours labor at $75 per hour.
Where can we find parts? I had what I suspect is the sprocket on 2nd gear explode on mine and I cannot find a new engine, let alone parts, anywhere for that bike. Which is amazing since its been the same bike for 20 years almost.
Partzilla.com
Nice video, and what city and state are you located?
I'm in the Spokane, WA area now. When I shot this video I was in Bakersfield, CA
has there been a fix to this issue for the 2023 109 boss bikes..im finding there are inherent issues with drive shaft transmission and shift cable...but dont know if its on early models of the 109r boss
I wish I had a good answer on that. I don't think suzuki ever actually addressed this particular issue.
Hi mate. 2014 Suzuki Boulevard M109R. 1st gear is gone. 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th are fine. Can hear metal grinding from gear box. Is there a way to change out 1st gear clog only? Thanks in advance. Cheers
Yeah... Only replace that when everything is apart. Engine still has to disassemble
I am in desperate need of help. My 06 M109r goes from 2nd to neutral. A known issue. Engine has only 11k miles. I live in Dallas TX and can't find a mechanic that would help me. Any suggestions?
You're going to have to keep looking around. The problem is that once a bike turns 10 years old, many dealerships simply won't work on them because available parts start to become less and less available. I was the guy in my area that would take on these older bikes. You may have to just start looking a bit further away than you want to find a reputable mechanic to do the work. Unless you have done anything like it before I wouldn't recommend trying it yourself.
08 M109R. When going over 4K RPM's on 2nd gear, the bike jerks just once. Have u ever had someone coming in to u with that issue? If so, what was it?
I will would bet money that you're having the same issues as most everyone with the 2nd gear issue. Which would be the same issue that ended up becoming this very video.
@@MotoMedic was hoping that was not the issue. Appreciate the reply tho. Great video!! Thanks!
Tubular nut
Did you record yourself tearing the engine down?
Only the removal of the engine. When I did this job I was in the process of packing to move out of state. Wasn't able to shoot the full teardown because of other jobs and lack of time 🙁
My kawasaki zx6r 2009, when i accelerate in 4th gear, sound like gear skipping their teeth. Only in 4th gear acceleration. After change the drum shift and shift fork, it is same result. All gear teeth and gear dog looks like normal. Can you help me solve this problem? It is affected by using engine oil without JASO?
Sometime i just skip to 5th gear.. Sometime when i stay accelerate very low speed in 4th gear with drilling sound, it is feel stuck. After that, im just pulling clutch lever shift to 5th gear.
What do your chain and sprockets look like? I really don't have an answer for you without actually seeing your bike. I have the same bike and if I had that noise the first thing I'd check is chain slack. I also don't know how you i nspected the parts when you had them out. Did you use a digital caliper and take measurements, then check against the manual? Or just do a visual inspection?
Thanks a lot.. I will inspect again
In what year did Suzuki fix this shift gear problem?
As far as I'm aware it's not something they ever addressed. The transmissions have not changed.
Just about every 109 will develop the 2nd gear issue - I hear it's common with all Suzukis. Not only does the shift fork need to be replaced but the gear dogs need to be back-cut or it will just happen again because it's a design flaw. There is a shop in FL that sells upgraded parts too.
Yup... That's what I've told my customer... He decided against back cutting due to costs. I said hopefully he won't have to do it again in the next 5 or so years lol.
@@MotoMedic What!? Talk about penny wise and pound foolish.
@@MotoMedic so that the design flaw.. the selector fork is holding the gear engaged & wearing because there isn't enough/any back cut on the dog for the dog to hold engaged .. reason for a recall if ever Ive heard.. did they rectify on the later ones.. cheers from nz.. great channel 👌
@@Errol.C-nz nope... They never fixed the issue.
@@MotoMedic the deal then.. would be to just split my box & do a half deg grind on the dogs.. still amused as to why some or a lot arent affected.. manufacturing tollerences !?
Hi there
Would a 2008 C109R have the same issue?
Thanks !
Very well could. They never updated the transmissions on these things. They just let them do what they do.
@MotoMedic hey I have a 2019 Suzuki boulevard m109r it just started doing a double jerk/pump I'm 2nd gear but its still fast in every other gear even I'm 2nd but just Wana know why is it doing that?
I have a 06 m109r with 9k, having the same issue how much does this type of work usually run
Depending on shop rates it'll vary. But figure any shop is going to bill you about 12 hours in labor. Parts on top of that. Not uncommon for this job to run $1500-2500
Moto Medic thanks for the info, looks like I’ll be getting the undercutting down soon as winter comes back around
Definitely do that back cutting if you replace the gears. It'll last a lot longer
@@MotoMedic shops bill more then that. Book hours are 20 hours for the job. Normal price with back cutting the gears is around $3k. Without and using OEM, which is a huge mistake will still be similar if done by a dealer. Hardened shift forks, shift rods and back cutting are a must.
Why did this happen ? I had a 2007 and going into 2nd was a nightmare. So I sold the bike letting the new owner that there was a problem and he said he could fix the problem
Known issue since they started making that bike. They just never decided to address it as something they should do a recall on. Mainly because most of these don't get ridden that much so never see the mileage it takes to start failing. Suzuki never addressed the issue.
Is the gearbox issues isolated to specific years or did Mr Suzuki fix it at some point ?
Far as I'm aware they didn't do anything to change the transmission for as long as they've made that engine
@@MotoMedic thank you for replying 👍
Actually they did. First, starting in 2011 they went from the 5 dog setup to the 4 dog setup...which makes no sense. They beefed up the ball at the end of the shift fork thinking it would be the fix. Fact is this will just take a little longer to develop the same issue. We have a total of 7 more to do this year. We use R&D Motorsports in Florida as he also provides hardened shift forks and rods. Great video.
@@bigpapam109 4 dogs vs 5.. allows the dog to be a little thicker & more importantly allows the engagement gap to be wider for more positive engagement.. my understanding is the face edge of the dogs round off with wear through that engagement clunk.. I'd think clutch drag could be a factor.. riders not pulling the clutch right in or maintaining adjustment
@@Errol.C-nz the mating surface on the dogs is still the same. The width of the dogs is obvously wider but the actual engagement surface is the same depth and hasn't changed. Instead of going to this 4 dog setup, they should have back cut the gear. Personally I don't think clutch drag is the issue. I think many happen from riders doing a shift when wide open throttle and abusing it. However, I have seen it happen on bikes that are just granny shifted.
Is this the case even with new models like 17,18,19 ?
I haven't heard otherwise... I haven't checked part numbers but if they're the same I'd assume so.
@@MotoMedic dam that sucks I had this bike on my to purchase next but if they have transmission problems maybe I'll skip 😒
@@robr1901 I will hit up a buddy that works at Suzuki and might know a little bit more about the newer ones and if they've remedied the issues. (Just texted him so I'll post back with an answer if I get one lol
@@MotoMedic man that would be really cool if you get a answer thanks bro 👍👍👍
@@robr1901 just heard back from him and he said it isn't something he's seen often, if at all really. Suzuki may not even know there's an issue if all talk about this is on forums and not brought to their attention. Also if it's only a small percentage of the overall number sold that have the problem then its not likely they'd do a recall like this considering its a huge job to pay for to replace a gear or two. And he said there are no bulletins or different parts for the newer ones.
What would be the price for something like that today?
Easily looking at $2000 in parts and labor. Probably more.
Hello boss
How are you ?
I need full gear transmission for m109r
It’s available??
I'm not a parts house. I can't help you.
What is the cost (around) to fix this exact issue?
This job was right around $1900 with parts and labor. My labor rate was $75 at the time of this job. 12 hours labor.
@@MotoMedic Please help me with my 06 m109r 2nd gear to neutral issue. I am willing to send the motor to you unless you ha e a contact in Dallas, TX. Engine only has 11k miles.
How often do you need to replace the parts?
I really couldn't tell you that. It would all depend on how the bike is being ridden. If you do this job, have the gears back-cut and it will probably never have a problem again.
That’s a good question I’m on my second M109r and I’ve never had the 2 gear problem. I’m at 24,000 miles no and I ride hard, I have 2 friends with over 50,000 miles and no problem so I’m wondering if it was to do with poor maintenance or not changing the oil often enough.
What is the main cause for this wearing to take place ?
I have this same issue only with mine the issue is in the first gear
Design flaw honestly. They just wear out too fast. Huge engine, lots of torque, and the shift forks and gear just wear out and start slipping.
Hey thanks for the video... is there a design flaw in the OEM parts? Will the problem be solved by replacing the parts or does it need some kind of shim or something? Thinking of buying one of these bikes, that's a repair i would like to avoid if possible!
There are no upgraded parts from the factory for this. You're pretty stuck with replacement of the gears and riding the bike. That said... if you decide to do this job and pop all new gears in there, you can see about having the 2nd gear and 3rd driven gears back-cut. By back-cutting them a little they'll hold themselves together under acceleration. You'd have to speak with a machinist about that though. Only option I've heard of to remedy this completely. Seems most are having the issue right around the 25k mark.
Hey do you have a 07 transmission for sale
Nope.... I'm not a parts house or dismantler. 🤷🏻♂️
I have a m109 and I've NEVER had this problem (?)
While it might not happen to everyone, it is a very well known issue with the bike.
www.arfc.org/complaints/2007/suzuki/boulevard_m109r/?q=&page=2
While not every owner will experience it, many have. And most seem to have the problem around the same mileage and have the same symptoms.
Hi could you send me part number for my 2007 m109r transmission gears
Go to www.partzilla.com and them up yourself. 👍
How much a job like that cost ?
12 hours at $75-125 (depending on shop) per hour labor + parts. About $1800-2500 give or take.
Sorry for a 2011 m109r limited edition
Depends on the hourly rate of whoever you bring it to. My rate was $75 per hour and a job like this is every bit of 12 hours between remmoval and reinstallation of the engine, plus tear down and rebuild. Parts (depending on what is needed) will run into the $1000 area if you're doing the exact same thing that was done on this bike. So figure that it'll cost you at least a couple of grand. If you're going this route and intend on keeping the bike for a long time, look into having the gears "back-cut' before you install them. Should keep you from having this issue again.
Having a problem with my m109r now
Well that's not good
I'm here because the clutch on my M109R Clutched burned out with only 3000 miles. Pissed me off. Now I'm being told "There wasn't enough ". I used to support Suzuki, not anymore. This is some BS
Doubtful whoever told you that knew what they were talking about. Did you buy it new? It's not like they come with used clutches. Burning up a clutch usually is caused by bad adjustment or riding the ever loving shit out of it all the time. I'm a Kawi guy myself but they're all pretty much the same. I can't say one way or another on how your clutch went out man. Sorry...
@@MotoMedic you are dead on. I have done over 100 m109 clutches over the years. 50% is from having the adjustment wrong. The other 50% us from revving up to 5k just to move from gas pump to gas pump.
So it seems like the shift rods are hollow.. I can't believe Suzuki dodged a recall
Yeah they sure did
You wanna do another one? Blew out my 2nd gear plus engine needs rebuild. I think rod/bearing accidentally oil starved it. Didn't realize like a dumb ass you need to tool tighten an oil filter on a cruiser. Let me know
Where do you live?
Help please
Am looking for parts
@@irwinpeterkin3494 www.partzilla.com
@@MotoMedic Hi I have a 2007 m109r no second ⚙️ gear damage how could I get the parts?
@@irwinpeterkin3494 get them from suzuki or the link I posted. Depending on where you are, dealership is where is go first.
@@MotoMedic thanks
my m109r kicks out of second into neutral 100% of the time :(
Bummer man.... you should probably start saving up. :(
@@MotoMedic $3600
@@Kalanioccc ouch
@@MotoMedic im selling it as soon as it get it back from the shop, lol.
@@Kalanioccc man that's a bummer. Those bikes are so cool! But that one thing costs so much and they didn't do anything to fix it. I hope the next bike is just as fun but less costly 😂